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Let's Have Some Real Spiritual Discussions (with Atheists) :-)

  1. God shet profile image59
    God shetposted 2 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/11994968_f520.jpg


    I'm encouraged after yesterday's discussion. We can now take this into the next level.


    We all have the awareness that no one (atheists included) can change the world by winning an argument on a forum on HubPages.

    But even if we can discuss about the 'real' problems of the world and how to solve them ~ we are winning half the game. Because very few people do that, from an objective, unbiased viewpoint.

    1. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Specifically and in great detail, how do you propose to breakthrough their subjective materialism?

      Reply to the edit: They aren't genuinely interested in any of that either, in my opinion.

      1. PhoenixV profile image81
        PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Salar_de_Uyuni_3.jpg.



        The carnal mind is enmity against God.

      2. God shet profile image59
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I'm always optimistic about that. My own experience has been that it's possible to bring about 'radical' changes in one's consciousness. The odd is that it might take a great deal of time (and slow experiences) for that to happen.

        It's quite like the case that happens with medical students:  Here you have a bunch of youngsters who were fans of film-stars, watched movies, played video games, made mistakes in life and had a 'fantastic' worldview.

        After applying scissors on dead-bodies for a couple of years ~ they might suddenly realize the disturbing fact that film-stars have the same organs inside their bodies, that everyone else have.



        It's not impossible to bring the same change in someone's (one who's not a medical student) consciousness ~ but of course that would require a great deal of effort from both inside and outside.

        It's not impossible to break through a 'materialistic outlook' of life. The strongest point here is that the whole 'thing' is an artificial construct: No child enters the world, equipped with a materialistic philosophy installed inside their heart, soul and mind.

        1. PhoenixV profile image81
          PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Besides giving them a radio check for the late JC, I don't think it's possible to break their irrational blind faith in their subjective materialism, even with the mace of reason.

          1. God shet profile image59
            God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            As I said ~ it might indeed be very difficult ~ as difficult as to break someone's blind faith in Jesus Christ.

            1. PhoenixV profile image81
              PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Apples and oranges. One faith leads to a tragic carnal conclusion, at best, and all that went along with it, another to hope (as well as many other things.)

              1. God shet profile image59
                God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                What is your favorite fruit, by the way?  :-)

                1. PhoenixV profile image81
                  PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Toaster poptarts

              2. PhoenixV profile image81
                PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Edit: If it ain't broke why fix it and if it is irreparably broke, why keep it?

                1. God shet profile image59
                  God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Would you please elaborate a little here.

                  1. PhoenixV profile image81
                    PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Which would you hold on to? A mud pie or a recipe for mousse?

        2. Sed-me profile image82
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Scissors? I s'pose they use duct tape to seal them up.

      3. God shet profile image59
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "They aren't genuinely interested in any of that either, in my opinion."

        ~ That's true about some of them.

      4. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am curious: why do you want to?

        I think having people with diverse beliefs will be good for the world and for humanity if only we can stop killing ourselves over it.

        1. PhoenixV profile image81
          PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Why would you assume intent?  I was curious to the OP's strategy. Like I said, why would anyone want to pry a mud pie from someones hands? I don't. .

          1. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I did not assume anything.

            "Specifically and in great detail, how do you propose to breakthrough their subjective materialism? "

            You asked and I replied: why would you want to.

            You then implied people who believe different things from you are carrying "mud pies".

            To which I say: or maybe we are all just carrying bouquets with different flowers in them.

            1. PhoenixV profile image81
              PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I am comparing subjective materialism to a mud pie. To one person its a bouquet of flowers, to another poison ivy.

              1. psycheskinner profile image80
                psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If you give all people equal respect, you use the same imagery for all basic belief systems rather than treat some in a derogatory way as nasty or poisonous.  It is your doing this that made me interpret your question as I did.

                I get that some beliefs are actively harmless, but broad religions / lack thereof should not fall into that category if you respect human diversity and consider it a good thing.

                1. PhoenixV profile image81
                  PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Medusa_by_Bernini.jpg

                  But I am not trying to extol the virtue of diversity. That is your alleged gig. If I were to do that I would sculpt a Bernini of diversity and donate it to the Louvre. I am trying to explain fundamental reality.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    No you're not.  You're trying to explain/convince of your personal perspective of reality; a perspective based on very subjective reasoning and experience that cannot be transferred to others.

                  2. psycheskinner profile image80
                    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Um, exactly.

                    I was extolling diversity -- then you were insulted because I was contrasting that with your... opposite position.

                    So now I have no idea what you are arguing with me about, but my initial post was quite accurate. And I guess your inability to even understand that we have different "fundamental realities" is further support of the contrast.

                    And because I have no idea of the relevance of Medusa to any of this.

            2. PhoenixV profile image81
              PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Psycheskinner wrote: "I am curious: why do you want to?"

              why do you want to?

              Then Psycheskinner changed it to: why would you want to.

              See the difference?

  2. wilderness profile image95
    wildernessposted 2 years ago

    Can you define your topic a little better?  Do you intend a
    religious discussion or is the topic spirituality of the human animal?

    1. God shet profile image59
      God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You have arrived late this evening. The show has already ended. Take your seat and enjoy the replay.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, I read the posts.  Sounds like a replay of the Christian beliefs rather than a spiritual discussion.  That and insulting anyone that is "materialistic", whatever that means.

        1. PhoenixV profile image81
          PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          They'd have to know what it means to be insulted, wouldn't they? Do these quotes sound familiar to you Wilderness? "Just rant about how they ".. 'are always attacked "or You and" ..."want to be offended,"  Nevertheless the movie was more of a Matrix than an Old Yeller. Please avoid the petty bickering. Thanks

      2. Sed-me profile image82
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

    2. psycheskinner profile image80
      psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

      For the sake of focusing discussion materialist has two distinct meanings:

      1)    focus on possessions: devotion to material wealth and possessions at the expense of spiritual or intellectual values
      2)     theory of physical: the philosophical theory that physical matter is the only reality and that psychological states such as emotions, reason, thought, and desire will eventually be explained as physical functions

      If purely the second meaning is referred to I am a materialist and many people are.  If the first is being referred to, that is an insult.

    3. Aime F profile image84
      Aime Fposted 2 years ago

      So do you want to discuss how to solve the real problems in the world or do you want to discuss how to encourage atheists to be spiritual? Those are two different topics.

      1. Sed-me profile image82
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Teaching anyone to be spiritual would be pointless. Following Christ is about having a relationship with Christ. Being spiritual can be mystical or ritualistic... it has many meanings. A Christian believes that salvation comes from accepting the gift of the work of Jesus on the cross. The two are not even in the same time zones and the former cannot compare in importance to the latter.

        1. psycheskinner profile image80
          psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Well, quite.

          And given that people either follow this faith, or another faith, or no faith and trying to make them change is pointless if they are not interested in changing -- perhaps learning to live together peacefully is a more realistic goal.

          1. Sed-me profile image82
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            1) You are exactly right. If God Himself does not move on your heart, then my words are meaningless. However, Christians are still called, by God Himself, to faithfully share the gospel to every tribe and every nation. I will not push Christ on anyone. I might as well beg George Clooney to marry me. Do you know what I mean? I can stalk him till the cows come home, but all that's going to do is get me arrested.

            Now, if I belong to a small community where several threads based on the topic of religion are posted, why would I not post on them? The Atheist obviously wants me to post on them, or he/she wouldn't start them... and though I seldom post unless something catches my attention, I would be remiss not to be honest in my beliefs, just as you are in yours.

            2) I do live quite peacefully with real life Atheists and ppl of different faiths. They are my friends and co-workers and I love them dearly. And if I ever have the chance to share Jesus with them, I do, and if I feel it is offensive to them, I do not, but I will pray for them. Most of the time, when they tell me their troubles, I just hug them and cry with them or laugh with them... I mean... I'm their friend. This is kind of the norm with the Christians that I know. I think of this as living out the scripture that says, 'They will know we are Christians by our love.'

            3) Im sorry that post was so long.

      2. PhoenixV profile image81
        PhoenixVposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Although I haven't really read them in-depth, he writes How to Make the World Happier articles, so that may be his end goal.

    4. bluerabbit profile image77
      bluerabbitposted 2 years ago
    5. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

      Take Two:

      So, what are the "real" problems of the world according to you, Gs?
      You would answer, "Materialism."
      wilderness would ask "What do you mean by materialism?" and you would say--->_________________________

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

        It can't be denied that much knowledge was lost during the dark ages. Why were they called the
        "dark ages?" "... the period in western Europe between the fall of the Roman Empire and the high Middle Ages, c. ad 500–1100," W

        little knowledge of….

       
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