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What is wrong with a life of faith?

  1. GA Anderson profile image87
    GA Andersonposted 24 months ago

    OMG! (the "G" stands for Gawd, not God) - what is with these athiests?

    I am not a youngster. And I am not a believer. But I am envious of the serenity true believers appear to find in their life.

    Now... don't try to proselytize to me, and don't try to prove your faith is the only truth. It may be to you, but you are not me, (or anyone else). My opinion is that a faithful belief can only be true if it is your choice, not something you were convinced of.

    True believers seem so content in their life. They go through the same day-to-day struggles as non-believers, but their faith seems to lend them the strength to still find a silver lining in even the darkest of storm clouds.


    So, my question is; Why do non-believers so stridently condemn and/or denigrate a believer's faith? If you are a non-believer, why are you so adamant in condemning believers just because their belief can't be empirically proven? Is a believers serenity in their faith harming you? Even though they can't prove the truth they believe - can you disprove it? (I don't think you can - barring the extremes of Biblical Literalists, which I think can be refuted)

    What are atheists afraid of? Why do atheists attack believers with such ferocity? I am an I-don-t-know-believer because.... Duh! I don't know.

    Come on atheists, so what if a believer can't prove they are right, beyond their undeniable belief that they are, how are they harming you? How can you be so sure they are wrong? Why do you attack them so voraciously?

    To me, atheists that disagree with believers are one thing, but atheists that attack believers are showing their insecurity. So why would a strident atheist feel so insecure?

    Just sayin'

    GA

    1. GA Anderson profile image87
      GA Andersonposted 24 months ago in reply to this

      {EDIT} to my own post.  Let me qualify my post by saying I perceive a definate difference between those that live their faith in confidence and those that try to "push" their  faith onto others.

      For you live-your-faithers, good for you, I am jealous. For you pushers - get a grip, just because it is real to you does not mean it is is real to the rest of us.

      GA

      1. cjhunsinger profile image70
        cjhunsingerposted 24 months ago in reply to this

        To directly answer your question, nothing. It is a choice. What matters to Atheists and agnostics,  perhaps, is how that faith (belief) manifests itself in society or in a government.
        Believe what you will and if you are happy in that belief then good for you. As an Atheist, I claim no universal or constant truths that you are required to accept and unless you, as a theist, can provide a reasoned truth to your claims do not present them as truths.
        As an Atheist I enjoy my life and my accomplishments and I would expect others to find their own  comfort zone without the condemnation of others.

        1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
          schoolgirlforrealposted 24 months ago in reply to this

          Some Atheists can get suicidal at times- as being human is hard, but if . Believers do, they pray for help and- get it!

          Better to be a believer.

    2. Old Poolman profile image81
      Old Poolmanposted 24 months ago in reply to this

      My first guess is that you will get some interesting and varied responses to this one.
      My own opinion when it comes to religion is "to each his own."  Two things that turn me off are someone knocking on my door to try to "sell" me their brand of religion, and the other is someone "attacking" another person because of their religious beliefs.
      Here we are again at the Christmas season, and yes I did say "Christmas" rather than "Holiday" season.  As usual, we have athiests attacking others because they want to put Nativity scenes on so called public property.  They threaten lawsuits and in some cases even destruction of the scene itself.
      It would be different if the athiests were being herded onto a bus, hauled to the site, and forced to stare at the Nativity scene.  But in reality they can walk or drive right by without even looking at it.
      It would seem that the real problem lies with those who have become radicals on both ends of the religious spectrum.  Those in the middle are comfortable in their choice of religious beliefs.

      1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
        schoolgirlforrealposted 24 months ago in reply to this

        Christians believe in helping others find God, as salvation is important. I'm not pushy though. I think the best testimony is living a good life.

        Amen

      2. Claire Evans profile image91
        Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

        I wish there was a "like" button. smile

    3. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
      schoolgirlforrealposted 24 months ago in reply to this

      Good point. I'd like to know why too!!!

    4. DoubleScorpion profile image86
      DoubleScorpionposted 24 months ago in reply to this

      There is nothing wrong with a life of faith...unless it is used to determine the rules and regulations for others...One can believe as they wish...but once they start using those beliefs to dictate how I am to live my life then there is a problem.

      1. Sed-me profile image83
        Sed-meposted 24 months ago in reply to this

        Live your life as you please. Problem solved.

        1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
          DoubleScorpionposted 24 months ago in reply to this

          Legalize Gay marriage...Remove religion from politics...keep religion out of schools...in short...keep beliefs to oneself...and we can all live our lives as we wish.. smile

          I wasn't talking about myself per se...I was talking in general...

          1. Sed-me profile image83
            Sed-meposted 24 months ago in reply to this

            It sounds like you want to determine the rules and regulations for others.

            1. DoubleScorpion profile image86
              DoubleScorpionposted 24 months ago in reply to this

              Not at all...I would like to see rules and regulation made based on ALL Human rights...Not just the "rights" of the believer...

              Which is why I said what I said earlier...There is nothing wrong with living by beliefs...unless one is using those beliefs to infringe on others...i.e. Gay marriage not legal...or one certain religion being used to set the rules for all...or being taught as the only correct religion...
              So unless we are going to use each and every religious belief system (to include the lack there of) to make political decisions or teach them in school...then we should just stick with the basics...

              Just as a point...I was saying to remove the personal beliefs from the rules and regulations...which of course is not the case in this country...
              Each and every human has the right to live and be treated the same as everyone else...so if a gay couple wishes to enjoy the "enjoyment" of marriage just like any other couple...why are we allowing our personal faith beliefs to prevent that...
              Why do we use our personal faith beliefs to create laws that only benefit the few instead of ALL...
              Each person hold a belief in faith that doesn't match everyone else...so why are we wishing to teach that is school...Even if we did teach...lets say Christian Catholic beliefs in school...everyone who was not Catholic would be all up in arms about it...because they don't follow the Catholic teachings...they are Baptist...or Lutheran...or JW...

    5. Claire Evans profile image91
      Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

      I also believe that belonging to a religion should be a choice and not something one is obliged to be part of.  Then that "faith" is fear based and is not to be envied at all.

      I suspect that some atheists try and put down a person's faith is because they feel threatened by it.  The thought that God, the Holy Father of Jesus, may exist is too scary.  There is no atheist who can say that they have never thought of the possibility that God exists and that Jesus is the son of God.  Some believe if you ridicule believers then it vindicates themselves.  If they can shake a believer to lose their faith, it makes them feel they have the truth.  Believe it or not, but many people are threatened by Jesus. 

      Or atheists could just say Christians are mean so they need to be told off or that Christianity is destroying the world.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 23 months ago in reply to this

        I came up with this theory, Claire:

        Atheists don't need God, while theists do.
        They get by just fine without any realization of a spiritual force beyond themselves and are just fine with being their own little source of energy.
        I, as a theist, feel that I am watching out for the Big Source of All Life, who Jesus loved and the saints of all religions reveal.
        Watching.

        1. Claire Evans profile image91
          Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

          They don't have the realization that they do need God.  It's easy to say you don't need God when life is relatively good but in the bad times it may be a different story.  We all need God for the salvation of our souls.  Not everyone realizes that.

      2. GA Anderson profile image87
        GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

        Your response is more inline with the original OP's question. Thanks.

        I do not think yours is an unreasonable possibility because it is the often seen vehemence of non-believer's attacks on believers that I was speaking of. Not the mechanics or validity of either belief.

        The question was not asking for a justification of belief or non-belief, but rather a question of why so many non-believers feel the need to attack with knives drawn.

        GA

        1. Cat333 profile image81
          Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

          I apologize for being off topic and responding more to other posts within the thread. When I begin a thread I don't mind that it evolves, and I forget that due to differing personalities some would rather stay strictly on topic.

          1. GA Anderson profile image87
            GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

            Thanks. And no worries. I am used to seeing threads take off in other directions.

            I try to keep on topic where ever possible because... well, because there was an original topic.

            I am feeling benevolent today, so I won't tie your shoe laces together or put glue in your chair.

            It is good to see your participation, so carry on.

            GA

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              I didn't see any promises about pigtails in the inkwell...

              1. GA Anderson profile image87
                GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                Too messy. I always liked the sneaky approach.

                GA

            2. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              You're a good natured guy GA. I wish there was a hundred like you on the forum. Merry Christmas.

              1. GA Anderson profile image87
                GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                Thanks for the kind words. Merry Christmas to you too.

                GA

              2. Cat333 profile image81
                Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                I agree!

            3. Cat333 profile image81
              Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

              Lol. Thank you, you're very kind!

    6. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 23 months ago in reply to this

      I once tried an experiment. I was with a friend and we were just school kids at the time. I mixed some vinegar and baking soda together and got a reaction from the chemicals. Then my friend repeated the experiment and got the same reaction and we had observed both reactions. Then my friend looked at me and said something very strange, I thought at the time. He said 2 + 3 = 5 and I thought it all strange, at that moment, so strange that I woke up and realized I had been dreaming. The observed and repeated chemical reactions, did not actually happen, but the math problem of 2+ 3 = 5 remained true. Why so much faith in empirical?

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 24 months ago

    Nothing! In fact it is a good thing, as you have already clearly explained.

    "True believers seem so content in their life. They go through the same day-to-day struggles as non-believers, but their faith seems to lend them the strength to still find a silver lining in even the darkest of storm clouds." GA Anderson

    1. schoolgirlforreal profile image76
      schoolgirlforrealposted 24 months ago in reply to this

      And what a nice quote that is!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image21
        Castlepalomaposted 24 months ago in reply to this

        If everyone were to be honest. Nobody knows if God exist OR not.

        Nobody known’s the 99% unknown world so nobody can claim to know God.
        Humans collectively do not know the unknown wild blue yonder of the 99,99999999 unknown Unknown Universe in order to know god.

        I think I know the super hungry ego to know the unknown mean a lot of fear and fighting.

        1. Cat333 profile image81
          Cat333posted 24 months ago in reply to this

          If you acknowledge that so much is unknown to humans, then why claim to know that God does not reveal Himself, and thus may in fact be known?

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 24 months ago in reply to this

            Probably because out of the millions (billions?) of claims to know a god, not a single person has ever been able to show it.  Eventually the false claims simply overwhelm everything and we don't believe any of them.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 24 months ago in reply to this

              God is revealed by one's own intuitive perception of his Spirit and presence.

              TWISI

              1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                Castlepalomaposted 24 months ago in reply to this

                One's own intuitive perception is limited to the 99% unknown world.
                Most likely your perception of God would be different if you lived in the Middle East, China or India among the other millions of other Gods to choose from.

                Or lack of God in many places in Northern Europe or Russia.

                Since people believe three times greater in aliens existence than in Yahweh existence. Your belief on the another planet would be way different again.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 24 months ago in reply to this

                  The people of Eastern religions know that all their "gods" relate to the ONE. They are manifestations of the One God behind all.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                    Castlepalomaposted 24 months ago in reply to this

                    Do Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Hindus worship the same God? If so, people of all faiths can live peaceably in this world, can't they?

                    Why is Yahweh jealous of the millions of other Gods? Why would a country like USA, with the largest number of Christians have 25% of prisons and 50% the military of the world. Why are 90% of the wars about Religion? Why are more Christians locked up in prisons than any other group.

                    Could it be an addiction to slave masters and over obedience.

            2. Cat333 profile image81
              Cat333posted 24 months ago in reply to this

              God reveals Himself to us. A human can't show you God revealed, only God through His Spirit can do that. Even if you saw signs and wonders, as many have (either from someone who walks with God, or someone with demonic powers, giving false signs and wonders), you would not recognize these as of God (or of the devil) without the Holy Spirit's revelation and guidance. The most a human can do for you is pray to the Father that your spiritual eyes be opened, speak words of truth to you, share our testimony, spark your interest through our testimonies or lives, live as examples of Christ's love, etc. All these things matter, they are all seeds, but God alone brings about true revelation and spiritual awakening. And we pray in Jesus' name that it may be so for you, Wilderness!

              1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                I don't think it's working, maybe if you follow and repeat endlessly to Wilderness everywhere.

                Maybe he might get too tired and submit without thought.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  Doubtful, but he might nod off to sleep. big_smile

                  1. Old Poolman profile image81
                    Old Poolmanposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    What ever happened to the old "Live and let live" rule.  That seems to work for most things.

                2. Cat333 profile image81
                  Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  You seem to be confusing prayers to the Father with words to an unbeliever. I'm not saying anything to Wilderness that would be "working" or not working. As for prayer, it does work, but the timing and method are not up to us.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    With all those "We just pray Lord..."   and "Hallelujah," and "Jesus" calls, I would be surprised if that God up there isn't just totally bored and disturbed by the requests being sent to him   smile

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                That's nice.  Some extra-universal ET puts thoughts in your head, but not into others.  Makes you pretty special, doesn't it?

                You do realize just how bad that sounds when it's put that way?

                1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                  Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  You will never make a good slave, Wilderness.

                  I let them be slaves and fight devils, no skin off my body

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    I fear I would not.  It just isn't my style at all.

                    Self imposed slavery is not always a bad thing, though, it just isn't for everybody.

                2. Cat333 profile image81
                  Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  God speaks. We hear and answer. It's not because we're more "special" since all are special - each one is a one-of-a-kind masterpiece. If anything, it's humbling to know that God through His mercy has chosen us who are no more special or deserving than anyone else.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                    Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    For the vast majority of people who ever lived on the planet and for most of the population who have no idea who Yahweh is today. Are they still all special for not knowing anything about Yahweh?


                    If so, are we not safer from not knowing Yahweh and also from going to hell.?

                  2. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    And yet only a few "hear" God speak.  He chooses who shall hear and by that very action makes them special. 

                    Or perhaps what the "chosen" hear is but their own conscience speaking to them - something we ALL hear.  That they then attribute that still small voice to a god is the only difference.

        2. 61
          EmilyWitzposted 24 months ago in reply to this

          It's disturbing to me that there is no proof of a God, but I find I get a lot out of prayer, serenity. I cannot prove it but I recommend it. I really don't believe humans are just bodies...we have spirits too

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

            Can Jesus not be considered proof?

        3. Claire Evans profile image91
          Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

          But what is God? It's very generic.  With our finite minds it should mean we can't know if God exists or not.  But that is not the case.  The Holy Father sent His Son who was human to testify to the truth.  He came as one of us.  That is what we can understand.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image21
            Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

            Were you there, when it happened 2000 years ago? Were you there on that very location with your own two eyes and ears experience God given Jesus up. When God already knew Jesus would be killed. If not, you only believe what others tell from an organized superstition

            I would kill God, if God tried to kill my son, like in another story.

            1. Claire Evans profile image91
              Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              Paul never met Jesus but he knew Him.  Reading the gospels alone is not enough to know Jesus.  A personal relationship with Him validates the gospels.  That can only be experienced individually.  You can't impart that experience to anyone else.

              What other story about God killing are you referring to?

              1. Cat333 profile image81
                Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                Well said!

                1. Claire Evans profile image91
                  Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  Thanks. smile

              2. Castlepaloma profile image21
                Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                God asked Abraham to kill his son Isaac

                Thank goodness I'm not religious. or
                Why not, God your the best, brillant idea, why would I question you, your the best, who needs a brain to think with.

                1. Cat333 profile image81
                  Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  God who was going to offer His one and only begotten Son as a sacrifice for the sins of all people was testing the faith of Abraham, the one who was called "friend" of God. In faith, Abraham trusted the Lord and told his son that God himself would provide the sacrifice, which is exactly what God did then through the lamb he produced and later through the Lamb Jesus Christ. No harm was ever going to come to Isaac. God knew this and Abraham believed this because of his faith in and trust of God. Because of his faith and obedience, Abraham was made the "father" of the faithful - all those who live by faith in God.

                  In faith we are to give to God that which is most precious to us, just as Abraham was willing to give God that which was most precious to him, trusting that God would allow no harm to come to his son. God will never ask any one of us to harm our children (and not even Isaac was to be harmed, but was a test and a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ). We "give" God our children or anything else beloved to us by surrendering them to God and trusting that He will lift them up and keep them in all safety and bring about good in their lives and for all eternity.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                    Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    God claim to have killed a totals of 24,994,828 people, Not counting people who have killed, in the name God. Why trust him at anytime?

                    Why. do christian cry when someone dies, and then claims he/she is in a better place, I would be singing and dancing if I believed.

                    I can't imagine running out of ideas to kill anyone, still above any of this nonesense

                2. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  Hahaha, CP...that's the jovial christmas spirit.

                  smile

                3. Claire Evans profile image91
                  Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  I don't believe most of what is written in that Old Testament.  If you look at the literal version, it is much different to what we have in our bible.  In fact, it was an ET who ordered Abraham to kill his son.

                  My God gave me a brain to think with.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                    Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    My joyous spirit comes from the love, freedom and connecting the backbone with the brain.

                    People are basically good and even better when they use their backbone to free themselves from a delusional mind. How many really have the backbone to free their whole soul from being possessed or enslaved by a particular personal picky God with an adversary of a particular Satan or demon around every corner.  Once your have sold that delusion by our mastering pretending to be your servant.  Then you are bought and sold yourself into slavery, through Banker/Government debt prison as our debt will never be paid in your lifetime. Welcome to your own choice of hell on earth. The only true enslavement is believing bs what other tell you and not being able to confront every problem at it’s source in your own mind

  3. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 24 months ago

    It is hard to understand how one may know a true Christian, when they believe not, the Christian God...
    It is also hard to understand how one may say, "You cannot prove your God, so shut up from my ears." And in the same breath, "push" their own NONbelief. As if...
    Who can know what truth is???  We bounce around perpetually, about it, or we anchor... no other options.
    I have peace, and all my storm clouds have silver linings; serenity beyond belief. True Christian?  smile
    Nevermind...

    1. Castlepaloma profile image21
      Castlepalomaposted 24 months ago in reply to this

      Closest thing to god I've come across is through imagination.  According to most scientists and most people, humans have existed for over 200,000 years. Meaning humans existed without God  for  90% to 99% of their time on earth. 

      Long, long time after we communicated by art and grunting  The smartest man in the cave connected the system of the stars in the universe with the natural causes of death on earth  and imagine  himself  closest person to god or spirited by god based on peoples fears. When other tribes grunted differently and dressed different. Then Military war started and later, religion was born.

      Today, it’s more about Gods, Guns and Gays, How many really are CONCERN about our health and nature’s health. Too many fear the great unknown afterlife still, than Life itself.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 24 months ago in reply to this

        You believe the guesses and allow them to outweigh. No problem for anyone but they who are wrong.
        We have no idea how long life on earth has been sustained. We may guess, but we've done it a long time. Not even Science agrees...
        I and many others, have chosen to anchor in the unchanging word of God. It works for us.
        Now for the man with 50-60 years of life, there is NOTHING sure. I wouldn't trust it... but that's just me. wink

        1. Castlepaloma profile image21
          Castlepalomaposted 24 months ago in reply to this

          Your largely guessing your God is the creator of the Universe. I learn very little about bio organism and natural earth's history from the dark ages from men who dance with sheep and JC who can't write his own material.

          I would rather come closer to the truths about world and stars from educated professionals scientist, who likely today, lived three times longer than land of the sheep.

          1. Claire Evans profile image91
            Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

            Are you referring to Jesus as "JC"?  How do you expect Jesus to have preserved any thing He may have written? Carry it around with it and watch it disintegrate?

            1. Castlepaloma profile image21
              Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              Darwin recorded through his own words, and he has even more followers with Evolution than Jesus has with Christians around the world.  Who ever recorded Jesus words created the world's worse numerous of wrong translations ever.

              There is more users of marijuana than Christians,

              FREEDOM FROM DELUSION. A delusion held by one person is a mental illness, held by a few is a cult, held by many is a religion.

              1. Cat333 profile image81
                Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                As Jesus put it: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14

                1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                  Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  I fly by the seat of my pants, "Castlepaloma -

                  I can fly anywhere, Man!
                  I grow my hair, Man! and...
                  I've been everywhere, Man
                  What are narrow roads and gates, Man!
                  I don't even care Man.

              2. Claire Evans profile image91
                Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                That's not the question.  I'm asking you how you expected Jesus to preserve whatever writing He made and where He kept it?

                Darwin did not exist 2000 years ago so the follower Jesus has had since then by far exceeds Darwin's following.  It was much easier for Darwin to preserve his writings, since publications existed to print his books.

                And your point about more users of marijuana being Christian? There is a huge Christian population.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image21
                  Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                  The Bible was written over a span of 1500 years, by 40 authors. Unlike other religious writings, The first newpaper in America was punished by Benjamin Franklin he quoted  " I only believe Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see.”
                  Your asking people to believe what was written from thousands of years ago and from hundreds of hand me downs of wild and crazy stories vs. from your own first hand experience in life.
                  Good luck luck with that

                  1. Claire Evans profile image91
                    Claire Evansposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                    I'm not asking anyone to believe anything.  I'm just telling you how I came to my conclusion.

  4. BobMonger profile image60
    BobMongerposted 23 months ago

    I can only speak for myself. My relationship with my Creator has given me a grounding; a surety of purpose in life.  In becoming a Christian I gave all the fears, crap, and excess baggage I'd been carting around with me for 50 yrs. to the Lord and he took the fear and uncertainty out of my life. Without that fear I now look at the world through new eyes. The things that used to weigh me down and make my life one continuous train wreck are now gone. For the first time since I was a small child I am truly happy with this life-and have hope for the next. Yet for some strange reason this really seems to piss off atheists-I feel sorry for them. So---believe or don't, that's between you and the universe; I'll walk towards the light.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

      Bob, keep going on your own personal journey.  Believe what you want to believe.  If that lifts your life in a way that nothing has before, then great..... your choice is respected.

      It only "pisses me off" when you presume that your life and your choices somehow are supposed to place you in a superior position with your "God" while I must bow and scrape because I am a naughty boy.

      Your beliefs and your understanding of life are not superior to mine, just different.  And your "God" made this world full of diversity, so let's celebrate that fact, shall we?

      1. BobMonger profile image60
        BobMongerposted 23 months ago in reply to this

        Ah, we're all sinners, don't ya' know. It's ok--no really, it is. Anyone who tells you different needs to open that book of their's and read it again. We will all get to where ever it is we are going one way or another-like it or no. I see my path lit before me. As long as we all leave this place better than we found it...

        1. Castlepaloma profile image21
          Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

          The bible is not for everyone, if it worked for you, happy for you, if it makes you happier., FOR whatever works.

          The next step will be, can the bible stand up to "Live and Let live for Everyone" and "unconditional love"?

        2. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

          As Castlepaloma has said, yes, that's fine for you to believe whatever you wish, whatever inspires you.... and you can apply as much passion to it as you like.

          But it's the "sinner" bit that turns me right away from the christian religion and any other religion that rules by fear and guilt.   The fear and guilt has been built up in you, Bob, by the human mind that is in your head and the heads of countless others.  Believe that "God" drove the thinking if you like.  But it's human guilt; nothing to do with "God."

          I am not leaving myself open to perpetrate all and any bad deeds that I wish.  For a start, there are sets of moral and rules and codes of conduct for each and every community/social group.  If I break those rules there are punishments that go with them.  Some individuals do need the sense that a "god out there" is watching over them.   If it were left at that, I would have no argument.  However, other humans sit in authority at the head of the church  and use the bullying, lynch-mob tactics of the masses to do their bidding for them.

          I refuse to be part of that.

          1. Cat333 profile image81
            Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

            You say, "it's the 'sinner' bit that turns me right away from the christian religion and any other religion that rules by fear and guilt." Yet he was telling you that since coming to know the Lord, his fears have disappeared!

            ’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, And grace my fears relieved... (Amazing Grace) We are first convicted by the Spirit of our sin, and this initially brings about fear and guilt/sorrow. Yet then our relationship with the Lord brings about unmatched peace and freedom from fear and guilt that far exceeds anything experienced without the Lord.

            "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

            1. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              You are still trying to convince me and convert me CAT.  Stop it!  You are insulting me by your presmptions that what you believe is best for me.  Simply honour my choice. That is all.  Unconditionally.
              You do this consistently and to others.  Stop it!   Do you not understand?
              Or is it simply you own sense of being right?

              1. Cat333 profile image81
                Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                It's certainly not my intent to insult you. But yes, I believe the truth is best for all, and yes, I believe Jesus Christ himself is Truth. I am nothing but a messenger, so what reason would I have for talking down to you? It is only through His mercy, and not through my own merit, that I belong to Him and share the truth He's revealed. It didn't originate with me and it isn't my own message, but His message.  And when you reject it, it isn't me you reject, but the One whose message and truth it is.

                I won't stop speaking truth here or anywhere. But I will honor your choice and decision at this time.

            2. jonnycomelately profile image87
              jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              No doubt, after my last rant, you or someone is going to say I have read too much into your quotes.  Maybe I have, but inherent in your responses to me is the presumption that you have "got it right," and christendom has got it right, and anything else is wrong.
              So, go your own way CAT.. once again we have a brick wall.

              1. Cat333 profile image81
                Cat333posted 23 months ago in reply to this

                You are right that inherent in my responses is a definitive "right" and an absolute truth that is not open to debate - Jesus Christ is the Way, the truth and the life. But it isn't me who's right, it's Him.

                As you wish, Jonny, we can end our discussion here. Take care.

      2. GA Anderson profile image87
        GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

        Well, maybe this response is more on target, (re: the topic's question), than it first appears.

        You response seems to address a false, (as you read it), claim of superiority in "Bob's" comment.

        I reread it to be sure, but I did not see a "superior" anything in it. It seemed to describe a choice that worked for him.  So where did the issue of "superiority" come from? Was it a perception that upset you?

        GA

        1. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 23 months ago in reply to this

          I may be wrong, but in my experience, both personally and listening to others, that sense of "being superior" is always there in the evangelizing christian's mind.

          1. GA Anderson profile image87
            GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

            Well, I suppose you could be, and perhaps your experience has been shaped by the environment of your life.

            I have seen the type you speak of - in all areas of life. But they are not the norm among my experiences. That was why I questioned the "superiority" label on a comment that did not seem to say anything of the sort. If it wasn't there, but you perceived it, then you drew that perception from your past experiences, (as you said).

            I think most folks form their perceptions of things starting with the color of what they think they see, (or hear, or feel, or think), shaped by their perception of how it relates to them.

            GA

            1. Castlepaloma profile image21
              Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago in reply to this

              There is an over dominate amount of Christians in North America.  Still,  I’m no better or worse than anyone including toward Christians.  I think everyone is god, yet that would not coincide with an organized superstition.

              Yahweh is one and only super nature being , All Knowing and All Powerful.  Yet their God pays no taxes and their God is in need of money all the time. 

              Here is a way to raise money, For Jesus helps the poor and sick, and that’s a very good thing. As an artist, we are the poorest paid profession in the nations. Yahweh son could help me, and I help him.
              We Could create a Jesus image sculpture contest and many of the rich churches from around the world could sponsor it.  The most difficult part would be finding judges who have witness Jesus. Is Jesus black, or Jewish Or white with blue eyes , oh oh!!! their looking for a fight.

              1. GA Anderson profile image87
                GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

                Oh well....*sigh"

  5. psycheskinner profile image79
    psycheskinnerposted 23 months ago

    So a thread that started criticizing dogmatic atheism ends with its equal and opposite force. Where there is one there will always be the other.

    1. GA Anderson profile image87
      GA Andersonposted 23 months ago in reply to this

      I think you are partly right. I did start the thread with a biased question. But it was still a sincere question.

      I think I got an inkling of an answer. And as you pointed out - from the roots, (dogma as you put it), of both sides of the question.

      My thoughts are that some, (many? most? only the few most vocal ones?) atheists may feel either self-conscious and unsure of their convictions, (as in afraid they may be wrong), or they may just feel ticked off at the "superior" attitude of the proselytizers.

      I am left with the opinion that it is the atheists, (again, the most vocal ones), that are the most vehement and strident in their opposition. Which to my way of thinking indicates a lack of confidence and surety in and of their position.

      As for the most devout believers, I envy their serenity, but in the case of the ones, (also the most vocal ones), that proclaim a "holier than thou" righteousness - they tick me off too.

      To finish this thread, I am left with the impression, (from a general perception of this and other religious threads on HP),  that it is the atheists that are more obstreperously condemning of the two beliefs.

      Just sayin'

      GA

      1. insearchof truth profile image86
        insearchof truthposted 21 months ago in reply to this

        Amen to that GA!

  6. Castlepaloma profile image21
    Castlepalomaposted 23 months ago

    Thank goodness I do not belong to any one group or even better a onesided group.

  7. jacharless profile image81
    jacharlessposted 21 months ago

    As always, I find it remarkable these debates continue over the perspective -and false perception of Faith in relation to Belief. One can believe/disbelieve in practically anything, which makes associating it with Faith problematic.

    Secondly, there can never be such a thing as "my faith", "your faith", "the faith" because again these are pseudonyms within the construct of belief and can therefore become personal 'gods' of sorts; become personal interpretations.

    Even the very text used to support the ideology of believing makes the distinction, and even offers up a definition of Faith versus Belief.

    Faith, by its very nature is an ever constant action of creation, not a leaning post in front of the Church In The Wildwoods. By faith, the worlds were framed by the ohm/  ruach / pneuma of Creator, so that the uncreated (invisible) took form and became created/creation (visible). The most interesting element of this definition is that this precise/exact power/force was breathed directly into the human being. Which means, the energy/action (and the abilities of said action) --not just the belief in the energy/action-- was genetically added to humans. Yet, for generations it seems this has been diluted to a barbaric ideology of mine v. yours because of the mind-game called Reason.

    Sigh. I suppose it better for one to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster -or hang an stone around ones neck, than quench what remains of the Spirit, if this what said ability has come to: "my belief is better than your disbelief" and vis-a-vis...

 
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