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Is It Too Much to Ask ...

  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    to hold Muslims accountable for the spread of Terrorism?

    Where are the Muslim leaders to lift and restore their fallen brothers and sisters who train their children to hate/kill the "blue eye devil", as mentioned in their Holy Book?

    They should:

    1. Call Radical Islamic families out on child abuse. It will have to start with the way they (the radical Muslims) raise their children.

    2. Change their way the world perceives them. The Muslims need to do more than tolerate the West. They need to embrace the precepts of Jesus, whether they accept him as a Son of God or just a Son of Man.

    3. Become more accepting of Westerners whether they are devoted to the God of Israel or the God of Jesus, (and those who believe that Jesus is more than a prophet.)

    In my view, The Muslims need to study/worship God more closely and DO SOMETHING about TERRORISM!

    1. Michael-Milec profile image61
      Michael-Milecposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      We can ask anything we  want, several hundreds in this or another group, express our opinions - we think valid and genuine - and that's  just about it. Unless the country doesn't stop lawlessness  and establishes  Law and Order for every single citizen ( including elected dictartors) alrerady living here and braking law  often unpunished, any talk about holding Muslims accountable for the spreding of Terrorism is just asking ... too to much.
      Realize Kathryn please, here we have a decree leagaly murdering unborn babies and the and the murderers are rewarded ! And you are suggesting  that those pagans need to embrance the precept of Jesus .../ ...and becoming more devoted to the God of Israel... and believe in Jesus... Is this kind of devotion visible manifested in the lifestyle of "us the settlers" so that the newcomers are being desiring to be westernized, educated, morally elevated or they choose they're own way only to be send back to their original country !
      We might be wondering, and perhaps debate countless more bothering questions, while we are not match of the finnacess of those who from inside of   this land instigate  riots, perverted sex-life, out of wedlock babies and so on...
      Well I didn't answer you question even if I tried indirectly point to an urgent need for christians and former christians to WORSHIP true and Holy God  so that "our" lifestyle will become contagious - peace and love promoting.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Yes, and how can that happen when people close off the possibility that God even exists???? When parents stop raising their children with Christian/Judea/Hindu/Buddhist/Muslim values saying there is no proof of God?

        I would say terrorists are actually atheists. Maybe even Satanists.
        How many children do you know who are going astray due to no mention of God in their lives. I know plenty. Plenty, Plenty. Even in my own family.(My brothers' daughters. I and my first brother were raised with church and God, but my two youngest brothers were not and they are now having trouble with their teen-age daughters.) And it is nothing but a tragedy.

        Here is an interesting article with no conclusion. Why? Because the impact of the belief in God when inspired in childhood is not considered at all.

        1. profile image61
          Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Dear Kathryn
          I am somewhat puzzled, even troubled by what you say in your posts. To me, it seems that all wrongs in the world can be righted by the belief in a being that likely does not exist. We will talk of evidence soon but firstly your point that Muslims need to embrace 'the precepts of Jesus'.
          I take issue with this statement and I tell you why. You are asking people with a different faith to embrace your faith of Christianity. You allude to a point whereby all will be well. at this point I think we need to remind ourselves of some atrocities carried out by the Christian faith, sometimes in the name of God himself. War, burning at the stake of religious dissidents, slavery, Witch trials & executions of hundreds if not thousands of innocent women, babies in the UK and possibly other countries taken away from their families by the church because the mother is single (this only stopped a few decades ago) and if you want to be recent, the widespread cover up of child abuse within the church WORLDWIDE!!!!!!!!!
          To say that all Muslims, the majority of which are decent people with no links to terrorism, should embrace the precepts of YOUR religious prophet is akin to Christopher Columbus reaching the New World (Now USA) and thus beginning the forced conversion by pain of slavery and death of the native population to Christianity. As more and more Europeans migrated to America and forced their values upon the indigenous population, the traditions and culture of the native american's slowly died out. This wasn't a natural end to their way of life, this was forced upon them through what would now be considered criminal. It probably was in those days too but in the name of 'white european prosperity', it wasn't anything worth worrying about im sure.
          Now, you make clear in your post that Muslims are the main source of terrorists in the world today. Yes, you may have a point. But a quick investigation into the reasons why Muslims may view the west with contempt is not hard to find evidence why. When the US, UK coalition invaded Iraq (which we all know about), they killed thousands of innocent men, women and children. This was due to them targeting heavily populated areas, mistaking their targets due to poor intel, and collateral damage. When some UK/US officials were asked about these civilian deaths by the media, they replied that 'although regrettable, these are acceptable losses' or words to that effect. Please tell me, when a normal person is at home one evening with their wife/husband, elderly parents and young children, all enjoying each others company and eating a lovely meal when suddenly a bomb drops through the roof, from US/UK air force, and the house is destroyed, the children are ripped limb from limb, the elderly parents are crushed under rubble, wouldn't you have some negative feeling about the people who did that to you and your family? and all for what? Revenge for Saddam not surrendering during the first Gulf War? Rights to oil trades? We all know the lies of WMD. That is terrorism. We in the west sometimes forget that end of the argument. This is why many people in the Muslim world do not like us and target us.
          Your language of 'embracing the precepts of Jesus' sow the seeds of fundamentalism and further conflict between religions and nations and that kind of rhetoric needs to stop.
          I put it to you that making such a comment is naiive, ignorant and extremely uneducated.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image29
            Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            When it comes to Muslims knowledge, that would be in the ball park.

            1. profile image61
              Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Can you expand on that a bit? Thanks

            2. Castlepaloma profile image29
              Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              You say your not Religious and me too. Yet you have enough compassion to understand the Muslim position and Christians history. The only point I don't get you kinda agree on is the source of terrorists could be Muslims.

              Historically Muslims countries can not complete with the history of Christians countries overall in genocides, terrorists, homicides, salvery and guns and nukes and so on.....Since Muslims ban has no basics because no Muslim person from these 7 Muslim countries has kill an American on their soil. From 1975-2015.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Islam = Muslim. Look at the roots of the Islamic terrorists. Good grief. We are not saying all Muslims are terrorists. We are saying some Muslims are terrorists. What isn't correct about this understanding?


                The Islamic/Muslim terrorists have claimed:
                “We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women.”

                "The terrorists who have invaded Mosul and other ancient Christian communities in Syria and Iraq have made music videos of themselves murdering civilians and captured soldiers.  They are literally enjoying the act of killing and the fear and suffering experienced by others."

                "… they actually beheaded children and put their heads on a stick and have them in the park."

                "... women are being raped, then murdered, and men are being hanged. These are the people who were warned - convert to Islam or be put to the sword."
                 
                http://www.catholic.org/news/internatio … p?id=56481

                1. profile image61
                  Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Hi Kathryn
                  While what you are saying is difficult to argue against, in terms of atrocities carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, they are still the minority, but have the funding and military might behind them to take power the way they want to, in a brutal fashion. But the comments you make about children heads on sticks etc most of these people are themselves Muslim, just from a different faction of the Muslim faith. Now when we trace back brutal dictators from the past, Hitler, Stalin, Mugabe etc, many of whom have different religious ideology. Hitler was a Christian. Responsible for the deaths of millions of people he deemed inferior. In his book, Mein Kampf, he cited God in a positive way, as though God was siding with Hitlers ideology. So you can see that ideology is dangerous in any political or religious form if people believe in it.
                  What is clear to see from reading your posts is the complete change of stance by you. Some of your posts read that 'not all Muslims are terrorists' and other posts you say that all Muslims should be held to account.

                  Terrorism comes in many forms, I have outlined many examples in my posts, Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is but one. To try and say that they should embrace Jesus, when they hate those values will only add fuel to the fire and make any conflict far worse.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    The non-terrorist Muslims should deal with the terrorist Muslims.
                    I now know its impossible for them, (thanks to your posts) and the answer to the question, Is it too much to ask to hold Muslims accountable for dealing with Muslim Extremism? is obviously
                    YES.
                    Too bad isn't it.
                    Is there really no solution?


                    PS Hitler was only a Christian on the face of it to get people to go along with him. 

                    "Many historians say he was skeptical of religion, but exploitive and shrewdly aware of its impact on politics." "Raised by an anti-clerical father …"  "During his political career, Hitler said he supported Christianity in public speeches. He sometimes made the claim in private statements, though confidants, like Goebbels and Bormann, noted the reverse; and there is a consensus among historians that he became hostile to religion, mainly Christianity, at some point during adulthood."

                    Richard J. Evans noted that Hitler saw Christianity as "indelibly Jewish in origin and character" and a "prototype of Bolshevism", which "violated the law of natural selection". In the decades between Charles Darwin and the mid-twentieth century, various historians have noted that the concept of "Social Darwinism" had been vaunted by both "proponents of altruistic ethics", and by "spokesmen of a brutally elitist morality", but in many of its exponents, it took a rightward shift at the close of the 19th Century, when racist and imperialist notions joined the mix. According to Evans, Hitler "used his own version of the language of social Darwinism as a central element in the discursive practice of extermination...", and the language of Social Darwinism, in its Nazi variant, helped to remove all restraint from the directors of the "terroristic and exterminatory" policies of the regime, by "persuading them that what they were doing was justified by history, science and nature." Some say Hitler was a Deist.


                    From:
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious … olf_Hitler

              2. profile image61
                Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Thanks for your comments and I see your points.
                What I thought I was agreeing with Kathryn about was that much feared terrorism I the world today is carried out by Muslims and that is true and cannot be ignored. But what I also made clear in my posts is that we in the west (well, our Governments) have also carried out terrorism in recent history with invasions and occupations of muslim countries since the turn of the millennium. Those responsible for the Iraq war should be prosecuted as war criminals but due to their status they will never be. This smacks of inequality. As US/UK first invaded Iraq in the first Gulf war in the early 1990's as Iraq had invaded Kuwait. Thus, Saddam was treated as a war criminal. When we then re invaded Iraq in 2003/4 on false information, causing the deaths of tens of not hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, then why are Bush & Blair not being held in the same contempt they held Saddam in? They should be and should be thrown in Jail in my opinion and I know many others share that opinion worldwide, not least the Iraqi families who grieve their dead children, killed by airstrikes on so called 'legitimate' targets.
                Moving on to Presidents Trumps view on the 'muslim ban'. Yes, those 7 predominantly muslim countries have not produced a single terrorist attacker between them, yet the 9/11 attackers hailed from Saudi Arabia. Why does Trump not but a ban on Saudi's? Simple answer. Economics. Money talks. Our Government in the UK together with the US Government have trade deals with the Saudi rulers. Many trading weapons of war with them. A trade deal worth billions to our economies. Both UK Prime Ministers of today and time gone by and US Presidents have done nothing to tackle the Human rights abuses, the Sharia Law imposed on its people and the spread of terrorism from Saudi Arabia itself. They do not want to lose its business, particularly in light of both US and UK current economies continuing to be hampered by the worldwide crash of 2008 and the UK government since 2010 (Conservatives) policy on austerity by taking things from those who need it and not doing nearly enough to challenge those super wealthy people people from nations such as Russia and Saudi Arabia who buy all of our land, homes and businesses therefore have control & power and effectively run the UK. This is why the likes of Trump, a very intelligent and successful businessman, will never cross swords with those who pose the REAL threat such as Suadi Arabia. TOO MUCH MONEY TO LOSE!! His 'muslim ban' is just a token effort to appease the American people, nothing more.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  This does shed some light on the matter. Thanks.

                  The executive action read: "Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter our country."

                  Is this true/possible
                  or not?

        2. profile image61
          Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Now I would like to tackle some of your comments about belief I God in contemporary society.
          As we move away from the middle ages, our technology gets more and more advanced and we learn more about macro theories such as space and the wider universe and more micro biology, disease causing bacteria and genetics, more and more people move away from God and religion. Now firstly, we all know the argument of creationism v the big bang. Since nobody can shed any light and what was here before the universe began, hence we do not know what caused the universe to be created, we cannot PROVE there is no god. This is the scientific approach. As we cannot prove gods does not exist, we can only say that because of pretty much zero evidence, it is very unlikely that there is some supernatural deity, at least the same kind portrayed in the bible. A book of thousands of years old that is arguably not relevant in the modern world, with some outlandish stories such as Adam & Eve, Sodom & Gamorrah, Moses & the Red Sea, The Miracles of Jesus & his virgin conception, resurrection & ascension to name a few. If this book, which was written by mere humans, was not written in the name of God, everybody would view it as nothing but fiction. A work of fantasy literature.
          Going back to your point of children going astray due to no god in their lives, ive witnessed quite the opposite. As you can tell, I am not a believer. My life has been filled with love and the charitable care of others. I have done this, not in the name of some God, but for its own sake. Many younger members of my family have also gone on to lead meaningful lives and are kind hearted individuals. As mentioned in my previous reply to your posts, there are no doubt many people in the world right now who have and continue to suffer due to 'the precepts of Jesus' and the dictatorship of the Catholic church. Children who the church had a duty of care over, abused. Many going on t have deep psychological issues and resulting for many, in taking their own lives. People in Africa, in poor communities not using contraception as the church forbids it, churning out child after child after child after child which they cannot afford to provide for. There is not enough food or water and their communities are already poor.
          I think its important to say at this stage, just so you can be clear, that I was once a religious believer in Christianity. I prayed to God every day, read my bible every day. Even sang in my local church choir. When as a young teenager, when my family was going through a difficult time, I realised that God had never answered my prayers, never made himself known to me, never even showed me any sign he existed whatsoever. So please never again say that children go astray due to no god in their lives. Children need positive role models, REAL people they can look up to and work hard to make the best for their lives and the lives of their children and contribute both practically and financially to their community and wider society.
          I find your comments to be closed minded, inaccurate and damaging to people who have been let down by society and the church. Many people just need someone to help them, to give them some moral compass and direction in life. For you to ask help for REAL people from a faceless being that lives beyond what we can see, hasn't made itself known to mankind in over 2000 years at least (since bible times, a MAN made book) and does nothing to prevent poverty, famine, war, disease, corruption, greed, apathy, selfishness and abuse among many other horrible things this world has in store for humanity and other species, then im sorry, but someones been lying to you.

        3. Michael-Milec profile image61
          Michael-Milecposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Kathryn, it happens within each individual heart's desire to conform to the Creator's image! Well, ignorance to meet God at his level by denying His existence, will continue trend of growing demonic dominance resulting in terrorist like advancement. You've correctly stated " parents stopped raising their children "... in godliness, decency, morality and truthfulness. Let me tell you what you already know :"Christianity" as a popular worldly movement failed to continually, precisely  following simple example the Man of Nazareth.
          It's simply , without "going to church" if a person desire is to maintain high level of integrity and dominance over all manner of evil and missing points (sinfulness). Everyone willing can "challenge" God's integrity by commiting to trust His word and live by it. The children would follow their parents sweet fellowship within the Spirit of Christ. See, there lies the answer: we live in a spiritual world before we admitt intelectual perceprion and following by manifestation of  physical acts of all sorts of "role-models" begining at home ( TV influence, plus the indoctrination in socialistic-communistic educational system).
          As seen the  muslims terroristic activities are but one among all other evils...

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            But, Muslims can help deal with terrorism since Muslims are guided by Jesus and God! That's what I'm thinking.
            I am not saying kill them. I am not saying turn the other cheek. I am saying make laws and enforce them. Like we do.
            However, some of these countries don't even have governments! What they need are good Muslim leaders. Have they ever had good Muslim leaders? Kings? Presidents? Monarchies. Kingdoms? Just ruthless Dictators?
            Why do we deal with these people? Oh yeah, Oil.

            1. profile image61
              Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              One reason some of these Muslim countries don't hav governments is because western countries invaded and removed those governments, making ideal conditions for Islamic fundamentalism to thrive. Its not hard to recruit a teenager who's family have just been blown to bits by a western bomb.
              Also, both UK and US governments, sell weapons of War to Saudi Arabia, the most strict country of Sharia Law, has appalling human rights record, and where many Islamic terrorist originate from. Please don't think that US & UK are the saviours of the world as we are portrayed to be by our governments. We both have caused much death and suffering around the world both in the past and in the present

    2. MizBejabbers profile image88
      MizBejabbersposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Kathryn, first, I'm not defending Muslim terrorists, so please don't think I am, but you need to better acquaint yourself with their religion. They are acquainted with Jesus. He is considered by them to be a "minor prophet". Therefore he is recognized by them even if they don't embrace him as "the son of God".
      I agree with you about some of their beliefs and customs being illegal in the U.S., and our laws recognize and take care of that. Remember the man who married his 13 and 14-year-old daughters off to a couple of his friends in their 30s? None of the three could understand why they were going to prison for child sexual abuse. Remember the Muslim father who affectionately patted his little daughter on the vagina in public? He couldn't figure out why he was being charged. We should follow our law and not give in like some of the Northern European countries have by allowing Muslims to practice Sharia law within their own communities. But heck, we turn our heads at the Mormon Christians who practice polygamy.
      But if we go to their country, we are expected to live under Muslim law, but don't forget, there it is the Muslim government, a theocracy-dictatorship run by an Allyatolla. We need to be careful not to let them get that type of toehold into our freedoms.
      Under our laws, if a doctor discovers a baby girl with her genitalia mutilated, the doctor is obligated to report it to child abuse services. It is supposed to be prosecuted just like any other child abuse case. However, I'm not sure what happens if the mutilation occurred before the immigration of the family. I do know that Muslims a few years ago were sending their daughters back to their home countries for these mutilations, and our government was trying to get some laws passed to stop it. I never heard what happened after that.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        so ... we should … not hold Muslims accountable?

        1. PhoenixV profile image81
          PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Why do you think people would make excuses for people, countries, religions and laws that do not support religious freedom?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            good question.

    3. ahorseback profile image48
      ahorsebackposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Hollywood and the Muslim world should get together and create as much love , peace and understanding   AS THEYHAVE  ISLAMOPHOBIA  , DIVISIVENESS , HATE AND INTOLERANCE !

      Lets let the most intolerant people of the world cure their own ills !

    4. Misfit Chick profile image92
      Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      The hipocracy of Christians is amazing. They used to be the terrorists, that's how their religion became dominant in certain parts of the world for so long. They're still terrorists, but most individuals only threaten to use violence instead of actually doing it, anymore. But, their governments that are based on those ancient Roman Pagan manipulations are being adjusted & have been for a while, now. You reap what you sow - and Christianity has 'sowed' many MANY ugly, dangerous things across our world.
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      1. PhoenixV profile image81
        PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Its only 900 bux one way flight to saudi arabia. Or maybe afganistan. You can tell all the women folk over there how bad it is here surrounded by all these hypocrites.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
          Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Is that all? less than a thousand dollars to get to Saudi Arabia. Welcoming with open arms they are!?
          Just think! NO MORE HYPOCRITES!
          Haven't you all, who hate this country, the primarily Judea/ Christian culture and the freedom of religion, LEFT YET ?????????

          1. PhoenixV profile image81
            PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Those arent the . ooo1 % terrorists. Just the regular folks in Saudi arabia. 900 bux one way flight. I could put that on a rewards card.  An open and candid woman like Ms Misfit could go around Saudi Arabia telling them about whatever it is she believes. Maybe catch some rays on the beach. It might be a novelty. She could post videos of it on youtube. Unless there is some problem?

        2. Misfit Chick profile image92
          Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Nope, this is my country as much as it is your's. I was taught to be a good person & respect others by my beloved & very Catholic grandmother. I have far more respect for the religion of Christianity & people's of other religions, races & cultures than Christian militants can claim.

          I've had to separate Christians: the sensible 'good ones' who care about the world beyond dogma; and the 'militant' ones who can't stand another thought in their head but HATE. How is that possible?

          My apologies if I did not make that distinction, earlier. I certainly didn't mean to insult Christians across the board. I know that the majority of you didn't vote at all bcuz your standards were too high to vote for a divisive jerk like Trump. You have my respect.

          I have two pieces of advice for Christian militants:

          1) Try, just TRY to actually figure out & process the Sermon on the Mount.

          2) Get an education and/or read something beyond the harmful BS embedded in your brain.

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          1. PhoenixV profile image81
            PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this


            Im not talking about living there. Im talking take ya a trip to Saudi Arabia. Do a vlog or video journal of your experience there. You could tell the women over there all about your beliefs. Maybe tell them all on the streets of Saudi arabia, your ability to differentiate good christians and the militant ones etc. That wouldnt be a problem would it? Outspoken American woman like you telling them ladies how you give the folks back home the what for. Nothing to worry about right?

    5. Ken Burgess profile image83
      Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      My answer can be summed up in one of my Hubs..." Civilization Jihad - Current times in America "  but to sum up, when the LEADERS of the RELIGION are constantly preaching:
      Ayatollah Khomeini: “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war . . . I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim . . . A religion without war is a crippled religion. It is war that purifies the earth.”
      Ayatollah Khalkali: “Those who are against killing have no place in Islam.”
      Then of course the religion is not going to be peaceful... its worshipers are not going to be peaceful.
      If the Pope was telling Christians daily to 'Kill the Infidels!  Destroy the Great Satan! (America)' and publishing religious doctrine instructing the faithful on how to do so... then I am sure there are plenty of Christians that would be doing so.
      Our problem is not that those of the Muslim faith won't take responsibility, they do, they are... it is just that our media, our schools, our politicians lie to us, hide the truth of what we are really facing, whether because they are ignorant themselves, or paid shills for the Saudis or Iranians, the end result is all of us are put at risk because we as a nation, as a society refuse to name evil as evil, and an enemy as enemy.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        '… we as a nation, as a society refuse to name evil as evil, and an enemy as enemy."
        Yes. It would help if we would.
        The above article begins:
        Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do not agree on much, but Saudi Arabia may be an exception. She has deplored Saudi Arabia’s support for “radical schools and mosques around the world that have set too many young people on a path towards extremism.” He has called the Saudis “the world’s biggest funders of terrorism.”
        and continues;
        "The idea has become a commonplace: that Saudi Arabia’s export of the rigid, bigoted, patriarchal, fundamentalist strain of Islam known as Wahhabism has fueled global extremism and contributed to terrorism. As the Islamic State projects its menacing calls for violence into the West, directing or inspiring terrorist attacks in country after country, an old debate over Saudi influence on Islam has taken on new relevance.

        What Is Wahhabism?
        The Islam taught in and by Saudi Arabia is often called Wahhabism, after the 18th-century cleric who founded it. A literalist, ultraconservative form of Sunni Islam, its adherents often denigrate other Islamic sects as well as Christians and Jews."

        1. Ken Burgess profile image83
          Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          But I believe the truth of the matter was that Clinton merely held that public position against Saudi Arabia.  In private she was a shill, she had taken tens of millions from the Sauds.
          In fact both Clinton and her VP pick Kaine have strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and their efforts here in America, as did Obama, who had 8 known Muslim Brotherhood agents working within his Administration. 
          Also, Hillary’s Sidekick and Muslim Brotherhood aid Huma Abedin had strong ties to the Wahhabists.. Abedin was, for many years, an intern in the Clinton White House in the mid-1990s.
          Her mother  Saleha Abedin, sits on the Presidency Staff Council of the International Islamic Council for Da’wa and Relief, a group that is chaired by the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

          1. ahorseback profile image48
            ahorsebackposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Why , Why , Why  was this so hard for the left to see  on one hand  , And so easy to cover up on the other hand ?

            1. Ken Burgess profile image83
              Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              We are living in a world where white people are the biggest advocates against white people, against Western Civilization, against their forefathers, their institutions.  Just look and see who most of these rioters and protesters are.
              It's like this mass suicidal mentality has gripped a large percentage of the population of America and Europe.  Helped immensely by the media, the efforts of the global-corporate forces, and the trillions spent by Saudi Arabia and Iran to buy political power and mold public perceptions in America and Europe for the past 20+ years.

          2. Misfit Chick profile image92
            Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            I'm guessing you got that info from fake news sites. Lets take another look at past protests T-fans are either ignorant about or in denial of - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw6R-kIX4fA

            NOTICE racism already existed within GOP ranks B4 Trump used it to impress simple, uneducated hotheads. Your comments about Hillary & Obama might have more informative substance if T-fans would stop ignoring & denying the fact that both he & most every one of his cabinet picks support anything other than deepening a political divide as far as it can go.

            It wasn't necessary to stir up this atmosphere in order to do whatever the heck you all wanted him to to with this country. He could have done it without all the hate-mongering - which is probably the reason why he does it, and doesn't stop. Whomever is pulling his strings WANTS us THIS divided. Why?!! I'm sure most any other GOP candidate would have implemented at least some of his EO's - but probably not in such an amateurish & destructive way.

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    6. Ikenna Ezuma profile image60
      Ikenna Ezumaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Terrorism and religious fanaticism is are two factors that intrinsically destroys the human person. Personally, I may not blame other Muslims for the atrocities meted on innocent people by their fellow radical Muslims, but the question I ask is, DO THESE OTHER MUSLIMS SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE EVIL THEIR FELLOW MUSLIMS COMMIT?

      Taking human lives in mind burgling, violent propensities is serious crime against humanity. Christians may have their own extremism, but it is nothing like the manner and audacity by which Terrorists carry out their campaigns. Truth is, Muslim leaders, if they truly say that their religion is a peaceful one, it should be in deed and not in words.

    7. TessSchlesinger profile image93
      TessSchlesingerposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      They can't do anything about it for the same reason that protestant christians can't do anything about Jesus Camp and Christian fundamentalists who go shoot black people in churches.

      1. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        It is wonderful to use false 'facts' to try to justify Muslim extremism but the shooting you refer to had nothing to do with Christian fundamentalism. Wishing and being are not one in the same.

        1. TessSchlesinger profile image93
          TessSchlesingerposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          You better get back to your meds.

          It's insane that Trump supporters now claim everything that discredits their racist and supremist agenda as 'fake news.'

          I wonder how history is going to record you.

          HINT; You aren't going to be the good guys.

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            I was simply commenting on your attempt to make the Charleston shooting out to be Christian fanaticism. The rest of the things you are imaging are on you. Not me.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        In this country deranged bad guys are dealt with appropriately. In every country it is pity and and a great tragedy that they become so deranged. What happened to their joy of life. All people, universally, as babies, are born with Joy of Life. Somehow it is not being preserved in those who become deviated from a normal course of human existence. Humans have the capacity to be happy, have empathy and strive/want to LIVE, survive and positively succeed on this earth.
        How come not them????

    8. HennyPennyPincher profile image93
      HennyPennyPincherposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      The Islamic community has denounced radicalism for over 90 years.  They are already standing up to terrorism, you're just not paying attention to it because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions about them.

      No one is required to convert to Christianity in order to be a decent human being, which is what you're saying they should have to do.  At any rate, their faith is more similar to yours than virtually any other faith in the world--why is it the faith most like yours is the one you're saying should be MORE like yours?  Could it be that your own faith has gone astray and is no longer following the teachings of Christ? 

      Many Muslims ARE westerners, for one thing.  They live in the USA, Europe, etc.  For another thing, while you are apparently basing your opinion of all 1.5-2 billion Muslims in the world by what you've heard about a few of them, the fact is that most Islamic nations are more similar to us than different.  Some even surpass our standards of gender equality, having already boasted female leaders while we still show absurd reticent to elect a woman to a position of power.

      The obvious fact about your perspective is that it is based entirely on hearsay.  I doubt that you know or interact with anyone that identifies as Muslim, or have done any amount of research into the Islamic faith to find out if what you assume to be true about it actually is.  Your point of view is based in glaring ignorance, which is obvious to anyone who has made any genuine effort to observe the situation.

      In the future, I would encourage you to avoid asking questions to which you do not want a sincere answer, as is apparently the case with this disingenuous attempt at "discussion".

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Thank you for your input. Thats the best thing about HP forums. you learn alot from people who know a thing of two when you don't.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image83
        Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        I think that is understood by most, that not all Muslims are radical...

        The bigger point is, the leaders of the faith, the heads-of-state in which the religion rules all (Iran, Saudi)  ARE financing, supporting, encouraging, terrorism, war, and the eradication of 'the West' ... and factions/orgs they support, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR's ultimate goals are to convert America to a nation of Islam, and Sharia Law.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
          Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Yikes!

  2. Live to Learn profile image82
    Live to Learnposted 6 months ago

    I don't think I am personally responsible for anyone who does anything in the name of Christianity in another country. And, there are terrible things done by Christians in other countries.

    I don't know what the answer is to terrorism but I do know if we start blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few the few may soon become many.

    As to embracing the precepts of Jesus. Would you advocate all other religions be required to do this?

    Honestly, I do believe this type of mentality will do more harm than good to inter faith relations.

    1. RockerGinger profile image84
      RockerGingerposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I couldn't disagree more. If Christians aren't being blamed for the bullshit Westboro Baptists and Christian cults do, then why would we make blanket statements and blame Muslims for what radical Islamic terrorists do? Completely one sided.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image29
        Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        I don't know if Jesus threw into the sky with angels or Muhammad on a wing white horse. I can imagine if they were both together. They would not be talking about weapons of mass destruction.

        1. RockerGinger profile image84
          RockerGingerposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          I'm not sure how this applies. Elaborate maybe?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image29
            Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Jesus said do not kill, and. Muhammad kill only in self defense.

            How did we jump to the talking about weapons of mass destruction. Steve Bannon/ Trump talk about apocalypse. A world war every 80 year meaning we are due now. I don't care what the Bible thinks of Apocalypse. But I do care what Steve Bannon thinks about apocalypse.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              A world war every 25 years (historical average of all two of them) says we're 50 years past due. 

              Or, if we're just going to grab numbers, a WW every 1,000 years says we have a while to go yet.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
          Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Jesus No, Mohammed … sure about that?

      2. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Did you bother to read what I wrote or do you suffer from a reading comprehension problem? Because you appear to think I said the opposite of what I actually wrote.

        1. RockerGinger profile image84
          RockerGingerposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          I wasn't responding to the initial question itself, not your most recent response. There's tons of responses on here so forgive me that I can't read all of them as they load.
          In lieu of your most recent response, yes, I do believe all religions should address the mistakes of those who so astray by teaching this to future generations. Basically a "that is what you don't do" when practicing. That way the younger generations will learn the difference between a good and decent follower, and a false one.
          My apologies for the misunderstanding. I don't have a comprehension problem smile smile

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            It would probably be best to not hit respond to a post if you are not responding to it. Simply choose the reply button at the bottom of the page.

            1. RockerGinger profile image84
              RockerGingerposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              So I said I'm sorry. Not sure why you're still bitching.

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Oh. I was hoping to explain how to avoid creating confusion. I suppose, if confusion is your goal, calling my comment 'bitching' makes perfect sense.

  3. Aime F profile image84
    Aime Fposted 6 months ago

    You are part of the problem here, insisting that people who follow another religion should study and embrace yours.  Don't you think that's kind of what the Islamic extremists are doing?  Maybe you're not killing people, but your mindset is the same and it's very dangerous.

    Everyone should be free to practice whichever religion they'd like or no religion at all.  We should respect each other's beliefs and not try to ram our own down anyone else's throat. 

    There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and about 106,000 of those identify with Islamic terrorist organizations.  It is not the responsibility of 99.9% Muslims to change your view of them when you're the one unfairly judging them .  It's YOUR responsibility to look at the big picture and be understanding of the fact that you cannot hold over a billion people responsible for the actions of 100,000.  Especially when most of the victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves.  You really think they're just sitting back and twiddling their thumbs?

    I think everyone should condemn terrorism regardless of whether it's committed by a Muslim, a Christian, an atheist, whatever.  Condemn them as individuals who are committing acts of hate and violence using religion, or nationalism, or some set of ideals as an excuse and not a guide.  No peaceful, loving individual picks up the Quran and decides to start killing people.  That's why, again, over a billion Muslims are out there right now not killing people.

    So yes, it is too much to ask.

  4. profile image0
    calculus-geometryposted 6 months ago

    You need to go after people and organizations that fund and arm terrorists.  Asking the Muslim who sells kebabs on the corner to take responsibility for all terrorists who happen to be Muslim is naive.

    Check this out

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-isis … ey-2015-12

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      WOW!

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago
  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Muslims don't seem to have laws like we do, which protect the indiviual from the vices of others and instead seem to encourage …       ????? whats the word/precept/ideal????

    In this country child abuse is illegal.
    In this country stoning is illegal.
    In this country we don't throw gays off the top of buildings (sans penis's yikes !)
    I mean it's illegal.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Muslims have the same morals we do?

    1. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      None of your detractors would go to Iran, Yemen or Saudi Arabia or any of the rest and test their 99% religious freedom theory.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        good point

    2. Castlepaloma profile image29
      Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Yes, Muslims in general are no better or worst than Americans.

      There so many American huge misconception about the Muslims faith. Many Americans will say you will be killed if you loose the Muslim faith.

      In Europe most Muslims don't go to Mosque's anymore. Cenk of Young Turks the largest online news on the internet, bigger than infowar. Cenk was a Muslims, plenty of times he said all Religions are crazy, he is a sitting duck, why did they not kill him for abandoning Muslims faith? Good thing Christians don't stone for Adultery anymore. It's the number 1 worst sin in America, they would have to kill half of them before they even get to hell.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Thou shalt not Kill/ senselessly Murder. We have laws based on this precept set forth in The Ten Commandments.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image29
          Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Unless you eat them. I would eat one if I crushed a plane and was trapped on a mountain top and the way to survive was to eat one.
          That would be my only reason.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Turn the other cheek.. or eat it, if necessary. HA!

    3. Aime F profile image84
      Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Again, you're grouping 1.6 billion people together.  Doesn't work like that.

      You and I have different ideas of what's moral.  People constantly bicker over morality on here and in real life.  Not everyone in North America has the same morals, not all Christians have the same morals (I see so many variations and interpretations of the bible), and not all Muslims have the same morals.

      Did you know that most Muslim-majority countries aren't under full Sharia Law, and in the countries with mixed systems Sharia Law tends to only apply to personal matters? 

      Most Muslims don't stone people to death.
      Most Muslims don't throws gays off of roofs.
      There is a clear disagreement happening between Muslim countries as to what's moral/necessary, just as there is everywhere else.

      As for child abuse, corporal punishment is still legal in the US and Canada and my morals tell me that's child abuse. 

      Did you know that 14 Christian-majority countries still routinely practice female genital mutilation?  That over half of baby boys in the US are still being circumcised despite the growing evidence that the medical benefits are negligible?  I'd make a case for both being immoral, personally.

      CULTURE plays a huge part in what we consider to be moral, it can't all be pinned on religion, and a set of morals can't be applied to everyone who follows it.  Would you appreciate it if I assumed you were all for FGM because you're a Christian and there are Christian-majority countries that still practice it?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        FEMALE MUTILATION in name of CHRISTIANITY?

        R E A L L Y !!!!!!!!!?????????

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Most is not all.
        Whereas HERE, in a majority Christian-Judea nation, we have laws that  A L L are on board with.

        1. Aime F profile image84
          Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Really?  I see people disagreeing over laws all the time.

          Look, there are a handful of Muslim countries under Sharia Law that do some barbaric stuff.  There's no denying that.  It's terrible and most of the world thinks it's well past time for it to stop.  But that "most of the world" also includes most other Muslim countries.  Do you understand?  Judging everyone based on the minority is unfair and does not help anyone to come together.  I'm not sure what you realistically expect Muslims to do other than to distance themselves from the barbarity and condemn the terrorist attacks, which a vast majority do already.  Asking them to embrace Christianity instead is not a solution, not even a little bit.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Make and enforce laws. Laws based on universal fairness and justice.

            1. Aime F profile image84
              Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              You want them to make and enforce laws in other countries?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Yes. Thou shalt not kill. They have no respect for the sanctity of LIFE.

                1. Aime F profile image84
                  Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Do you think that's a responsibility that falls on the whole world or just Muslims?

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    Muslims. If they want to be allowed into this country or respected.

                2. Castlepaloma profile image29
                  Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Don't Christians Americans tell us about the Sanctity's of life. Since Columbus with all American bloodbath of native Americans, black Americans, 184 major worldwide wars. No place on earth has policy of war where every two years. That is excellaration much faster with Trump,  whats that,  one war each week.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    In time, with the laws that have been established, we no longer kill or enslave.

            2. PhoenixV profile image81
              PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Not only beheading women for alleged infidelity they also have, recently I believe beheaded people for having books on witchcraft or for having a crystal ball or something similar. These are extrajudicial and judicial killings. This is not the acts of some indistinct .01 % living off the beaten track.

              One way flight to Saudi Arabia is 900 bux.

              1. Aime F profile image84
                Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                No, it's not.  The .01% are the people who identify with Islamic terrorist organizations, as this post was originally about Islamic terrorism.

                The stuff you're talking about is awful, there is no doubt about it.  But it's still not representative of Muslims as a whole and thus all of them should not be held accountable for it.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  "all of them should not be held accountable for it."
                  I for one disagree.

                  1. Aime F profile image84
                    Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    That is horrendous.  Truly.

                  2. profile image61
                    Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    This is a disgraceful comment from Kathryn and shows that given the right environment and political back up (Ie a government who agree's with her views), she herself would agree and possibly partake in mass incarceration and maybe even murder of many of innocent people, purely for their religious beliefs. This is what happened in Nazi Germany, as evidenced in the Stanley Milgram Study of obedience. I feel that Kathryn is somewhat of a closet religious fundamentalist and she had any political power, could be very dangerous for the world.

                2. PhoenixV profile image81
                  PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Awful is hazel nut in my coffee. These are the laws of various countries with tens of millions of people.  It is easy to talk about freedom of religion and tolerance in the USA or Canada etc. But if you think your feelings are universal in those countries or even countries like N. Korea with atheism as the state religion, the notion of 99.9999% is going to be in for a rude awakening. And a rude awakening for anyone you convinced.

                  1. Aime F profile image84
                    Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    And I believe I prefaced my statement about "freedom of religion" with "should be," not "is." It clearly does not exist as a universal principle yet, not in some Muslim countries and not here, as is evidenced by the original post (which indicates that no, it's not easy to talk about religious freedoms here, as our buddy Kathryn is so kindly demonstrating for us).

                    All I am saying is that 1.6 billion people should not be labeled as savages or held accountable for those who are savages' actions, when most have turned their back on and condemn those laws.

    4. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Most of them do, yes.  If anyone is telling you otherwise, they're ignorant prejudiced bigots.

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "And, there are terrible things done by Christians in other countries." Live to Learn

    R E A L L Y ? ? ? ?

    What Christians do, they do in the name of universal principles for the benefit of all. There are no Radical Christians hating and killing in the name of their religion.   
    As in N O N E.

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I suggest you learn about the history of the religion you so fiercely support. It is rotten to the core.

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Mohammed was not a Son of God. And did not preach that we are all sons of God.
    Did Mohamed teach his followers to say: "OUR Father who art in Heaven?"

  10. PhoenixV profile image81
    PhoenixVposted 6 months ago

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/A_map_showing_countries_where_public_stoning_is_judicial_or_extrajudicial_form_of_punishment.SVG

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Thank You !!!!!!!

    2. Castlepaloma profile image29
      Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Is that any worst than the death penalty in America. Game over both ways, you can not commit any more sins, which America is world champions at sins.

      The only case of a head chop off in America was a Muslims chopping his wife's head off. Some Americans would approve of that.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        NOT FUNNY

        The death penalty is applied for valid reasons.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image29
          Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          It's not funny, but true.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            so what? if they act on it, it is curtains, (certain consequences based on the LAW,) for them. No one allows it.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image29
              Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              I would not approve of any killing unless it was youth in asia. 

              For each Muslims killing an American in America soil, there 300 American homicide. If no serious person on Hubpages who really cares about the million of Muslims kids in the middle East killed. It is like your all accessories to murder everytime you support your troops with blood Fed tax money and give them a peace of paper calling it a license to kill. Unacceptable.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                … you would believe in euthanasia. I do not.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image29
                  Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Your right on, with torture with Trump. The doctors put my Dad to early rest by my whole family approval. Open season on Muslims children according to you and Trump.

          2. Castlepaloma profile image29
            Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            You mean the death penalty is to prove killing is wrong by killing them. Giving life in prison is much more sane and less costly.

            Good dog, that most States do not approve and have no death penalty. Killing anyone is hypocrites.

            I can't imagine running out of ideas to kill someone. Unless it was a direct attack to kill me, but it would be a 99% chance I would injure them before they could..

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
              Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Its to prevent them and others from killing. Do you know that Manson is suspected of conducting killings (on the outside) from Prison, (on the inside?)

              1. Aime F profile image84
                Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                See, there you are making provisions to the morality that is supposedly accepted by all.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Hilarious.

                  1. Aime F profile image84
                    Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    What's hilarious about it?

  11. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Individual liberty has never been part of the history of the world. Tyrants vs Liberty seems to be the theme of this earth.
    Unleash the Muslims, (the mini tyrants) and make the people of the world slaves and victims of the real tyrants, (the bad guys of the world).

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "That over half of baby boys in the US are still being circumcised despite the growing evidence that the medical benefits are negligible?  I'd make a case for both being immoral, personally."
    I wouldn't.
    You say it yourself: growing evidence.  It is a matter of science. Nothing else. In the past, circumcision was advocated because it was more clean and healthful.

    1. Aime F profile image84
      Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Yes, "in the past."  Not anymore.  So why are people still doing it?

      I understand that many people don't consider it immoral.  But that's my point.  My morals do not equal everyone else's in all cases and it would be very presumptuous of me to assume that they do.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Thou shalt not Kill.

  13. psycheskinner profile image81
    psycheskinnerposted 6 months ago

    I have yet to see "Christians" take responsibility for acts like the Mosque shooting in Canada.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Is this the incident you are referring to?

      " Sunday’s deadly shooting at a Quebec mosque has sparked an outcry on Arab social media, with many users claiming the attack represented “Christian terror” even though there have been no significant reports that the shooter was religiously motivated."

      "The suspect in the shooting rampage at a Canadian mosque visited the site before Sunday’s massacre, asking for money and scouting the scene before returning with guns and killing six men as they prayed, a member of the mosque said.

      Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, was charged in court on Monday with six counts of premeditated murder and five counts of attempted murder with a restricted weapon after Sunday evening’s massacre at the Centre Culturel Islamique de Québec.

      Members of the mosque were shocked to find the man that had been seen twice outside the center in the days before the shooting was the same slightly built French-Canadian that police said was the lone attacker in the shooting.

      Arab social media has been saturated with claims that the lone gunmen perpetuated a “Christian terror” attack.
      Feb 2 2017
      http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017 … -shooting/

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      The shooter went to prison. "Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, was charged in court on Monday with six counts of premeditated murder and five counts of attempted murder with a restricted weapon after Sunday evening’s massacre at the Centre Culturel Islamique de Québec."

      The law took care of it.  Our (the West's) laws are based on Christian/Judea principles.

      He was probably on something or off his meds/Ritlin/Adderal/who knows what. But, he was not representing the Christian religion.

      So, I consider this comment by you, psycheskinner, a cheap shot, which, of course, is a severe understatement …. and 
         
                                       H O W  D A R E  Y O U ? ? ? ?

      " Arab social media has been saturated with claims that the lone gunmen perpetuated a “Christian terror” attack."

      Perhaps they paid the man to start stuff. Very evil stuff.

      1. Aime F profile image84
        Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Had you just left it at "there's no evidence to suggest he was Christian or did it in the name of Christianity" then I would have agreed with you. 

        Unfortunately you took it a step further and had to suggest he was "off his meds" or that the Muslims paid him to do it.  The people who knew him say he was a pro-Trump white nationalist. Can't a white dude just be a horrible racist and terrorist and we call it what it is?  Why are you looking for excuses?

  14. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    George W Bush after 911:
    "These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith.  And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

    The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself:  In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil.  For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.

    The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam.  That's not what Islam is all about.  Islam is peace.  These terrorists don't represent peace.  They represent evil and war.

    When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world.  Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace.  And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.

    America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country.  Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads.  And they need to be treated with respect.  In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.

    Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes.  Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America.  That's not the America I know.  That's not the America I value.

    I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America.

    Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

    This is a great country.  It's a great country because we share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth.  And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do.  They're outraged, they're sad.  They love America just as much as I do."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liudIJFg8UQ

  15. psycheskinner profile image81
    psycheskinnerposted 6 months ago

    There is every evidence that Christian terrorists in the US were acting according to what they saw as Christian values.

    If you don't recognize that, then you should understand why normal Muslims feel the same.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      History of Contemporary American Christian Terrorism

      "Contemporary American Christian terrorism can be motivated by a violent desire to implement a Reconstructionist or Dominionist ideology. Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things, as a pre-requisite for the second coming of Christ.[105] Political violence motivated by dominion theology is a violent extension of the desire to impose a select version of Christianity on other Christians, as well as on non-Christians.

      After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ. A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".

      Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.

      Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord  Defensive Action, the Montana Freemen, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".

      In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks would hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.

      In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.

      The November 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting, in which three were killed and nine injured, was described as "a form of terrorism" by Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper. The gunman, Robert Lewis Dear, was described as a "delusional" man who had written on a cannabis internet forum that "sinners" would "burn in hell" during the end times, and had also written about smoking marijuana and propositioned women for sex. He had praised the Army of God, saying that attacks on abortion clinics are "God's work." Deer's ex-wife said he had put glue on a lock of a Planned Parenthood clinic, and in court documents for their divorce she said "He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions. He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end."

      The pont is that all of these incidents were stopped because of our laws; Therefore American Christian terrorism is not taking over the world and stops here.

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      They need to become civilized. They need to establish laws that prohibit murder. These laws need to be implemented into the whole of their society. Their children need to be raised knowing and following The Ten Commandments, most especially, this one:
      Thou shalt not murder.

      TWISI

  16. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    This reflects a broader consensus in the social sciences about violence: namely, that it is “socially determined,” a product of deeper historical, economic, or cultural forces over and above the individual. It is perhaps best summarized by the renowned social psychologist Albert Bandura. Drawing on studies of violence from across the human sciences, Bandura concluded that “it requires conducive social conditions rather than monstrous people to produce atrocious deeds. Given appropriate social conditions, decent, ordinary people can be led to do extraordinarily cruel things.” Social scientists argue about the nature and impact of the “social conditions” in question, but few would question the essential point that violence, however personalized or idiosyncratic its expression, is primarily rooted in historical structures or social relationships, not individuals, still less their “pathological” mindsets.
    From:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/internation … /395351/kl

  17. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "Moral agency has dual aspects manifested in both the power to refrain from behaving inhumanely and the proactive power to behave humanely. Moral agency is embedded in a broader socio-cognitive self-theory encompassing affective self-regulatory mechanisms rooted in personal standards linked to self-sanctions. Moral functioning is thus governed by self-reactive selfhood rather than by dispassionate abstract reasoning. The self-regulatory mechanisms governing moral conduct do not come into play unless they are activated and there are many psychosocial mechanisms by which moral self-sanctions are selectively disengaged from inhumane conduct."

    "The moral disengagement may center on the cognitive restructuring of inhumane conduct into a benign or worthy one by moral justification, sanitising language and exonerative social comparison; disavowal of personal agency in the harm one causes by diffusion or displacement of responsibility; disregarding or minimising the injurious effects of one’s actions; and attribution of blame to, and dehumanisation of, those who are victimised. Social cognitive theory adopts an interactionist perspective to morality in which moral actions are the products of the reciprocal interplay of personal and social influences.

    Given the many mechanisms for disengaging moral control at both the individual and collective level, civilised life requires, in addition to humane personal standards, safeguards built into social systems that uphold compassionate behaviour and renounce cruelty."
    From:
    http://web.stanford.edu/~kcarmel/CC_Beh … gement.pdf

  18. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "...civilized life requires safeguards built into social systems that uphold compassionate behaviour and renounce cruelty."

    Belief in God, Jesus, and the saints and prophets of all religions ends up being a good thing. The radical jihadists and the radicals in any religion misinterpret their holy books and messages brought to earth by enlightened souls.

    The Way I See It

  19. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Genocide Against Christians In The Middle East

    "ISIS is committing genocide — the “crime of crimes” — against Christians and other religious groups in Syria, Iraq and Libya. It is time for the United States to join the rest of the world by naming it and by taking action against it as required by law.
    ISIS’ activities are well known. Killings, rapes, torture, kidnappings, bombings and the destruction of religious property and monuments are, in some instances, a matter of public record. The European Parliament, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, and the Iraqi and Kurdish governments have labeled ISIS’ actions genocide. Political leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights — have done likewise.
    Indeed, Secretary of State John Kerry in August 2014 stated: “ISIL’s campaign of terror against the innocent, including Yezidi (sic) and Christian minorities, and its grotesque and targeted acts of violence bear all the warning signs and hallmarks of genocide.”1 Pope Francis and Cyril, Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, have decried the genocide in these countries against Christians and other religious groups. Most movingly, archbishops and patriarchs of ancient Christian communities in Syria and Iraq have spoken out clearly against this crime and cried over the blood of their people and ISIS’ efforts to rid their homelands forever of the Christian faithful.
    None of these declarations of genocide excluded Christians, who, with the other religious minorities in the region, have endured targeted attacks at the hands of this radical group and its affiliates because of their religious beliefs.
    On December 4, the Knights of Columbus co-authored a letter to Secretary Kerry requesting a meeting to brief him on evidence that established that the situation confronting Christians and other religious minorities constitutes genocide. While there has never been an official response to that letter, we were contacted by senior State Department officials who requested our assistance in making the case that Christians are victims of genocide at the hands of ISIS. Given the specificity of the information requested, our focus in this report is on the situation confronting Christians in areas that are or have been under ISIS control, primarily in Iraq, Syria and Libya."

    http://www.stopthechristiangenocide.org … report.pdf

    1. Castlepaloma profile image29
      Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      America created the Taliban, Al Qaeda , ISIS, ISIL and a bunch of other Bull crap ghosts you took, whole hook, line and sinker. Follow the money back to the Zionist who own the US for your demons.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        So what do you know about it that we do not?? Maybe some bad globalist NWO types did ... but not AMERICA, which is made up of states. and states are made up of cities and cities are made up of neighborhoods and neighborhoods are made up of AMERICANS!

        1. Castlepaloma profile image29
          Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          American got owned by US Corp a fully United States of Corporation since 1913.. A century of Presidents all marching to the same beat of the New World Order. Only JFK seriously spoke out about white secret society and NWO. Got himself killed. All they need to do to Trump is show a film of JFK and ask... any questions.

          You can call people illuminati, Satanist, KKK, and a dozen others and the source is Zionist. You can't say Zionist, you get yourself fired or kill or refused on any major media.

          Trump is the God father of all that. If I walked into all that, I would be 1000 % behind Israel too. Then look for a way to escape, of stay married to the Mob to survive.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        America did not create those organizations. Why do you say that? They are Islam based. How do the Zionists (Jewish based) fit in?

  20. Castlepaloma profile image29
    Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago

    American homicides have killed more Americans than all the world wars since world war 2.
    All 7 Muslim countries that Trump ban have not had one Muslim has kill an America on American soil from 1975 - 2015.

    Through bad imagination, insanity and real factual evidence. Truly if US wanted to kill the real murderers, they would have to bomb and gun down mostly Americans.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      mostly? why not each and every one?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image29
        Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        I want to make a clear point how extremely hypocritical and fundamentalist Christians are about Muslims lead by propaganda.

        Calling atheist as the real terrorist is nuts.

        First.  They are only 2% of the world's population, what group of atheist ever killed in the name of Atheistism.
        2nd. What chance at NWO from 2%,  when got 90% of predominately Religious are now in war action.
        3rd Only Zionist are cunning enough to get a billion each of Christians and Muslim tooled together to destroy the world.
        4th You have to believe in a Religion or God like Christianty to believe in Satan to be call Satanist. Satan believes in God.

        Thank love for it is the true God, only nature can  be the true connecting Religion.

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      "All 7 Muslim countries that Trump ban have not had one Muslim has kill an America on American soil from 1975 - 2015. "

      Proof, please?  This ought to be interesting as nearly 1/2 of murders are never solved!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image29
        Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        In the Atlantic daily and I think the Washington Post. Zero American murdered by Muslims terrorist from those 7 countries Trump ban. Although Saudi terrorist murdered over 2300 American if you count inside job 9/11.

        Your count cases of 50% insolvable murders in the US. Maybe... when I got arrested from the RMCP Chief of Police in Canada, had to pull out all the stops, from receiving a criminal record.

        All because I witness an illegal Marijuana grow-op and refuse to rat on a plant grower.

        Found out 80% of murders are not solved in Canada. These RCMP had not solve a murder nor a break-ins in the city for 3 years. The cash cow is basically pot and traffic tickets.
        I won because the Chief back down from pot vs real crime debates. Although all the national media destroyed my reputation in city as a rat. So moved out of the city because the city's largest income was from Marijuana. A real cat and mouse game.

        Just like Jesse Ventura who reputation as a Marine was harmed by the book and movie :The American Sniper. Ventura is moving to Russia because he is respected there, much like your other america icon celebrities moving to other countries too upset by a corrupted system.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Sounds like you've swallowed whole the claims from a couple of news rags that are printing something you KNOW they cannot back up.

          Your choice of course, but nothing I would consider as "proof" of an assertion.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image29
            Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Then prove it is not true, because I can't find anything to the contrary or from anything from my pass studies.

  21. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    If one does not believe in God one does not believe in love. If one does not believe in love one does not set forth or follow this simple boundary: Thou shalt not senselessly murder/hate. Murdering/hating others in the name of Allah is senseless. Most Muslims know that Allah is a God of Love. Why don't the terrorists? Only Muslims can know for sure. Only the Muslims can address this lack of sound reasoning on the part of their fallen brothers and sisters.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image29
      Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      People survey find Aliens have 3 times greater probability than Yahweh. Along with squwasch being double for more believable than Yahweh.

      Would most people on earth who don't believe in Yahweh, have no capacity for love. If I can speak for a  million species, all animals love.

      What is wrong with most people who don't champion the greatest champion of world genocide Yahweh. Why not stand by Yahweh where Christians destroy most of the wildlife animals by over population of people and pollution.

      What wrong with their love?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Whats wrong with the Muslim Terrorists' love?
        Hmmmm????

        1. Castlepaloma profile image29
          Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Both Religions show the most horrific way of showing love. A death/love relationship from the playbook of...
          The Passion of the Jews

    2. Aime F profile image84
      Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I believe in love and kindness with all of my heart.  I don't need an imaginary guy in the sky for that.  I see it in my family, my friends, the world around me.  On the flipside, the only person I see being hateful in this thread is you.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        God is not an imaginary guy in the sky. God is invisible creator, what he has created and what is all pervasive.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        How am I being hateful in your view? specifics please

        1. Aime F profile image84
          Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          By holding all Muslims accountable for the actions of a few, who most have condemned over and over again.  By suggesting that their religious beliefs are wrong and must follow yours to be worthy of equal treatment. 

          If you possessed as much love as you think you do, you would understand why that's not fair or very loving at all.

          (Oh, and also about that bit about people who don't believe in God not believing in love.)

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            I believe you are mistaken. I accept all religions. All religions worship the same God in my view.  It makes sense to assume that Muslims understand where the terrorists have gone wrong. Muslims should hold themselves accountable since NO ONE ELSE CAN!
            What do you think should be done, without jeopardizing the US/Canada?? I do not believe in the solution called for in the Catholic link I provided. Perhaps you do.
            Do you?
            See link:
            http://www.catholic.org/news/internatio … p?id=56481

            1. profile image61
              Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Please tell us how you expect normal law abiding Muslims to hold the Islamic Terrorists to account? Please condier that those countries and areas within those countries where ISIS rule, any challenge to their authority is dealt with by death, and not just a quick death either. Drowning people in a cage, Burning alive people in a cage, beheading people, stoning, shooting, hanging. How do these people stand up to such brute force without risk of the most painful death to themselves and those they love?
              This is what happened in Nazi Germany, a CHRISTIAN country. If people spoke out, they were punished. Taken away to 'correctional facilities'. The same in Stalinist Soviet Union. Many who spoke out against the regime were taken away many imprisoned for life or executed. The same is true in North Korea. From the Rule of Kim il Sung all the way through to the present rule of his Grandson, Kim Jong Un. If people speak out, they are punished.
              Lets also not forget that when the Charlie Hebdo Magazine printed satirical cartoons of Mohammad, Terrorists forced their way into the building and MURDERED those responsible. Many Muslim leaders spoke out against this crime and other like it, many Mosques in the UK have opened their doors to non Muslims to invite them in and learn the true meaning of the faith and its followers.
              So Muslim people do speak out. But for those who live in the midst of such evil and violence, what would you haven them do? Please tell us.

  22. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Hint:
    No one perceives God directly except for those who meditate (intuiting God as Spirit,) pray and focus daily on the Invisible Spirit of God/Love.

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Nonsense. Nothing but nonsense.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Just because you can't perceive God doesn't mean others can't. I, for one can. There are many others. The source of our very existences is God. You don't have to to accept that fact and luckily reality is not dependent on belief.
        Terrorists and other Muslim sects are doing horrible things. They do not percieive God either. They are getting away with really terrible things because they have no conscience. They are horribly deluded people. Someone/nation needs to stop them.  Muslim People need to stop them. I am not saying American people. I am saying Middle Eastern People.

        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11217772

        If you think its a funny issue, just keep laughing about it and denying the seriousness of the situation. If the The father of our nation was alive today he would be ashamed at the way you guys are disrespecting our president. Those of you from Canada, I think we should ignore you. You are dangerous to national security and what you write is dangerous to the youth. The youth (mellenials) should not be reading your unpatriotic and disgusting misinformation about America. What good is it to rewrite history and tear down the fabric of the nation. Enough already. We are stuck with what we have today.

        We need to screen the Muslims who are coming into our country. We need to figure out how. Let us try. The judges have already thrown a Monkey wrench into national security.

        Wheeeee…. Have fun with that, everyone.

        Thank You for this freedom of Speech.

        1. profile image61
          Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Your a bigoted crackpot who understands nothing but the middle east and the UK/US role in bringing about the current mess its in which makes islamist terrorism thrive. If think ISIS would be around now if Saddam Hussein was still in power? Of course they wouldn't. Who got rid of Saddam Hussein? The US & UK coalition. Why did they get rid of him? Because of a lie which cost thousands of lives of civilians and soldiers. You thin banning muslims from America will help? Nope. Just make hatred towards US worse which will incite more violence. It will give ISIS and other jihadist groups ammo to further brainwash and recruit young jihadi's.

          Your president is disrespected because he is disrespectful. Not just of muslims, but of anyone who disagree's with him on just about anything. When Arnold Schwarzenegger took over the role on the Apprentice recently, Trum yet again got on to his twitter account and ridiculed Arnold. A very childish thing to do and not befitting of a US President. He has no class, cannot take any form of criticism, is a bully and in the business world has been left to get his own way for far too long and he thinks he can do that on the world political stage. Your president could possibly bring about World War 3 and it will likely be about something pathetic. God has nothing to do with it.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Why are we putting up with Arnold? What a jerk he turned out to be.

            1. profile image61
              Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              A weak response again. Its not about putting up with Arnold, its about the pathtic ridicule of him over something so nonsensical as ratings. This is the way Trump is. Ridicules anyone and everyone. Look at the presidential campaign. Even targeted hi opponents wife because he didn't deem her as attractive as his own wife and that was all!!!! This is absolute bullshit and makes the Will Ferrell movie 'The Campaign' look like and insider documentary

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
                Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                He is a jerk and everybody knows it. The show is a dismal production. Bah.

  23. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    The Muslim Terrorists need to meditate on God as the essence of pure love.  Who can teach them this?

  24. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    < (Oh, and also about that bit about people who don't believe in God not believing in love.)>

    If a person does not believe they were created and are sustained on a constant level by a loving creator they are not beholden to anything but their own immediate knee jerk emotional reactions.
    They drift without a sense of purpose or destination. They know not where true joy comes from and can easily fall prey to false "gods."

    Pot is becoming one of those gods, for instance.

    The Way I See It

    1. Aime F profile image84
      Aime Fposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      This leads me to believe you know absolutely nothing about people who don't believe in God. 

      I do not live my life according to "immediate knee jerk emotional reactions."  I live my life being the best person I can be, living the most productive life I can, because I believe this is all I have.  To me being kind, loving, and respectful is THE most important thing I can do here.  Why would I want to hurt people around me?  Why would I want to make anyone's life worse, when like my own, I believe it's all they have?  I want to be happy and I also want to make the people around me happy.  I want everyone to experience the best things in their limited time on this planet. 

      My sense of purpose is to enjoy the time I have here and to be a source of positivity and love for the people who are close to me (and the people who I don't even know) because they too deserve to enjoy their time here.  My destination, your destination, everyone's destination in this life is death.  Do I need more than what I have here on this earth?  I don't think so.  It would be a nice bonus if I got to keep going after this, but I'm not going to spend my time here looking towards something else.  What I've gathered along my journey is more than sufficient to keep me happy and focused on enjoying life. 

      As for not knowing where true joy comes from, you couldn't be more wrong.  True joy comes from running through a waterpark with my daughter.  It comes from those seemingly normal days or nights that turn into the happiest of memories.  It comes from an unexpected kind gesture from a stranger.  From seeing something beautiful for the first time.  From laughing so hard you can't breathe.  True joy is found in numerous things, ENDLESS things. 

      Pot is no less a God than an invisible creator, the way I see it.  But I'm not going to disparage you for believing in your God.  I'm glad that it brings you happiness and comfort, and I'm glad that you feel it enriches your life.  But the moment you start suggesting other people lead less loving, or less fulfilling, or less "purposeful" lives because they don't believe in your God, is the moment I'm going to call you out for not practicing what you preach.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Love is only one aspect of God. There is more to life than love. I am glad you are like an angel. I am not and I am glad I can perceive God directly and am guided that force. I have been greatly helped by others who are also guided by that force. Jesus was guided by that force and the New Testament has much information to help us stay on a positive course and avoid temptation. You are lucky you have no temptations to throw you off a course of love.

  25. Aime F profile image84
    Aime Fposted 6 months ago

    My point was not that I'm an angel, quite the contrary, actually.  I'm just a regular human being.  Capable of seeing the good in life and in other people, capable of enjoying life without the promise of something more, capable of trying to be kind and helpful.  Most people I know are good people too, and they come from all different belief systems, many not having any belief in a god or gods.  Being a caring person who is capable of love (both loving life and other people) is not exclusive to those who believe in your God, not at all. 

    I am not perfect and I've been less than kind, but I don't feel I need a higher power to put me back on course, I feel I can get there myself because I am intrinsically motivated to do so.  And I'm not special or unique in this way.  Many, many people just want to be a good person for the sake of being a good person.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      You have the higher power of love as a matter of fact. It is a given. But where did it come from? If love is so pervasive, I can only think it comes from a single source.
      Belief in the source of love keeps us in close contact with it. What about those, such as Mussolini, who did not believe in God?

      "Much like Hitler, Mussolini was able to charismatically whip his people into a war mongering frenzy with ethnocentric rhetoric, instilling an appetite for empire building.11 As we all know, his ideological stubbornness didn’t end well for Mussolini or his people who were thoroughly taught a lesson by the Allies in World War II."
      http://hollowverse.com/benito-mussolini/

      PS:  Whoever believes in love believes in God.

      The Way I See It

      1. profile image61
        Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Absolute drivel and a stupid thing to say at the end of your post Kathryn 'P.S Whoever believes in Love beieves in God'

        I believe in the equality of man/woman of all different ethnicities and cultures and religions. You seem to be picking and choosing what you say. As Ive mentioned before, there is a ton of evidence, which I have outlined, which evidences a Godless world, even for those who believe & worship (100+ worshippers dead in Nigerian chirch roof collapse, Christians being persecuted by ISIS and brutally murdered, wheres God for them if God is about love?). You have not once even mentioned the brutality carried out both in the name of Christianity over the centuries and the brutality carried out by western governments to eastern countries even in recent years. You are a typical bigot who picks & chooses their arguments based on no evidence whatsoever, dismisses fact and promotes religious fundamentalism.
        Back to your very stupid comment about whoever believes in Love believes in God. I believe in love, always have always will. Its what keeps people together and many people of th world safe and comforted. This is a normal human emotion. Now if this is a normal emotion which no doubt you will believe was given to us by god, then I think the common sense approach to that is that anger & hatred are also normal human emotions that must have been given to us by god. If you doubt that then god must be picking & choosing what he gives to people, therefore the argument is that god only has limited involvement in our lives (if you believe in god that is). So then if that's the case, how can God be omnipresent & Omni powerful? He does nothing whatsoever to intervene in this world we live in, nothing whatsoever yet people like you still insist to others that we must embrace od and his teachings, and you always leave out the death and suffering throughout history as a direct result of 'gods word'. Many people including those of faith (Christianity too), and those of no faith are all vulnerable to the same issues in life. Poverty, famine and disease. Here in the western world, people who are Christians and who are not succumb to the same illnesses regardless. Colds, Flu, Chest Infections, Strokes, Cancer, Auto immune disease, heart disease. There is absolutely no favourites being played here. So by implication you feels that those dying of the most painful cancers are loved by God? If you loved someone and how power to stop this (God is all powerful, remember), wouldn't you stop this, end their suffering and make them well? Of course you would. So why doesn't the so called most powerful being known to the universe? Why can Doctors & Surgeons, normal people who are trained & educated to do a job, save people (not all, granted) and make their pain bearable yet God cant? These are issues which you must accept. You cannot hide behind weak responses that you are giving so far.

  26. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    A guest on Coast to Coast radio show predicted the area would have a terrible war and many would die. Can't we just stay out of it? Its their problem. We should create our own source of energy and get heck out of the Middle East. If the Muslims want to come over here, fine. Come and be happy, safe and secure and don't jeopardize it for any one, like what happened here in San Bernardino.

    "According to the FBI's investigation, the perpetrators were "homegrown violent extremists" inspired by foreign terrorist groups. They were not directed by such groups and were not part of any terrorist cell or network. FBI investigators have said that Farook and Malik had become radicalized over several years prior to the attack, consuming "poison on the internet" and expressing a commitment to jihadism and martyrdom in private messages to each other. Farook and Malik had traveled to Saudi Arabia in the years before the attack. The couple had amassed a large stockpile of weapons, ammunition, and bomb-making equipment in their home."

    This hit close to home where my brother lives. It was horrible for them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_ … ino_attack

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Kathryn. Another contradiction by you. You have been advocating that Muslims should accept the teachings of Jesus, and the acceptance of western style laws, which is clearly you trying to have your opinion on what YOU think Muslims should be doing. You then say in your post "Cant we just stay out of it". MAKE YOUR MIND UP!! Stay out of it or try to voice your views. One or the other. Have the courage and, im sorry to say, intelligence, to stick with one argument and evidence your views and fight for your cause. Your constant bending of what you think and what you say is just absolutely staggering. And while you carry on with this I wont let you get away with it. I wont let you get away with your views of forcing another flawed system of western 'values' on another culture & religion.
      It would be nice if you could address me directly and respond to the comments made by me in this post. And us intelligent, individually minded people with the faculty for common sense and critical thinking WILL NOT PUT UP with another weak response from you such as "If you believe in love then you believe in god".

  27. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "According to technology website Recode, Uber is researching "vertical take off and landing" technology, or VTOL. The technology would allow Uber riders to beat city traffic by taking to the skies in passenger drones.

    Uber head of product Jeff Holden told Recode that, unlike helicoptors, "VTOL aircraft could have multiple rotors, could have fixed wings and perhaps eventually would use batteries and be more silent." The Telegraph notes that Amazon's delivery drones are employing a similar technology.

    “[Uber wants to] offer our customers as many options as possible to move around,” Holden told Recode. "Doing it in a three-dimensional way is an obvious thing to look at. It could change cities and how we work and live."

    Several companies are researching self-flying drone technology. Recode notes that a passenger drone is being developed by Airbus and several of its subsidiaries. The prototype is scheduled to fly at the end of 2017.

    Further, Chinese company Ehang revealed the 184, a fully-functional single-passenger drone which has a battery life of 23 minutes. The $300,000 drone may be released as early as this year.

    Holden said told Recode that Uber drones could be in the air within a decade."
    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 … rone-taxis

  28. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Maybe the seven Muslim countries which currently are without governments can become one nation under God. They could establish a democratic republic with a constitution like ours. Many say our constitution cannot be applied in other areas of the world. I wonder why not? Maybe they could even have freedom of religion and welcome Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews.
    what ??? yikes !

    1. Castlepaloma profile image29
      Castlepalomaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I would except the American Constitution in my country. The freedom of Religion, don't like it yet would except it, Why can't America practice what they are preaching in the Constitution?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        You silly, its not about religion. Its about screening out the bad guys. We don't know how to determine if they are terrorists or not.
        They don't have documentation because there aren't even governments!
        Gosh!!!!

  29. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Muslims should stay in the Middle East and find a president. Would that be so hard to do?  Maybe Obama could help them. I know, I know, the Islamic terrorists are just ruthless. Nothing civilized can happen as long as they exist and breed. Its so hard to believe this is going on. Human beings who are so C r A z Y!!!!  If we have made the situation worse because we need their oil and we have destroyed their governments and we do nothing to help the situation, (what I don't know) then that is bad. We need to get out. Maybe if we get out they could figure out their situation. How about that: As long as you have terrorists that you are not taking care of/eradicating … we will not do business with you.  Ha ha Ha!  I look for the simplest solutions. I guess there are none.
    Bah!

  30. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "Bachabaze is in no way acceptable in Islam. Actually, it's child abuse. It's happening because our justice system doesn't work.
    "This country has been lawless for many years and responsible bodies and people can't protect children," he explains.
    Dancing boys are picked out at a young age by men who cruise the streets looking for effeminate boys among the poor and vulnerable. They offer them money and food.
    The Independent Human Rights Commission in Kabul is one of the few organisations that has attempted to address the bachabaze practice.
    The group's head, Musa Mahmudi, says while it is common in many parts of Afghanistan there have been no studies to determine how many children are abused across the country.
    He takes me to the street in front of his office to show me just how difficult it is to protect children here.
    The streets of Afghanistan are full of working children. They polish shoes, they beg, they gather plastic bottles to resell. They will take on any job which will earn them some money, he says."
    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/mel … fghanistan

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Don't dare talk about the abuse of Afghan children and completely ignore the worldwide abuse of children for years by the church. Something that was covered up by senior cardinals and even the pope.

      Very few people on this forum are siding with you, this is because your arguments have little fact, no evidence and you constantly contradict yourself. You are losing this argument.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        That is because decent souls like me left HP long ago. Why I stay?
        Patriotic duty.

        ~~~~>>deal with it.

    2. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this
      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        The point is he was jailed. We have laws. We protect our people. They CAN'T.
        They need to.
        We need to screen those coming in VERY CAREFULLY.

      2. PhoenixV profile image81
        PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        It doesnt seem fair that people cannot go toe to toe tu quoque with you.

  31. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    The world is full of Muslim people who are no good. We have enough violence in this country brought about by the ideals of Terrorists. Let them in. Let them abscond with our youth who are so vulnerable right now for many reasons. Let them. What is to you? You love foreign Muslims more than America's youth.
    ~~~~>>> for SHAME!

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      You have enough violence in your country carried out by your own people who ARE NOT Muslims. Crazy gun laws. You as a nation don't minimise risk. Always blaming the person who carries out shootings as a mentally unstable individual and guns are nothing to do with it. You think a massacre of small and innocent children at Sandy Hook would of happened if the perpetrator wouldn't of been able to get hold of a gun? You have been brainwashed by your idiot of a president. More people have been killed in US due to gun crime than terrorism.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        This, what you write, is totally besides the point.
        We have laws and we have guns. It is our way. Who are you to point this out?
        We need to keep out the bad Muslims end of story. Who are you to criticize this valid quest?
        If the Muslims would clean up their act, we would not have this dilemma of having to protect our citizens from the influence of terrorism / killings / mass shootings and the like ...
         

        Ask, the Germans, British, and French. They agree with Trump.

        1. profile image61
          Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Firstly, as a loving human being it is my duty to to point out the murders committed in your country by idiots who can get guns as easily as bubble gum. another contradiction by you, show no remorse of victims of gun crime, even small children, yet dare to tell me and others that we cannot love if we don't know god?
          Secondly, Trump is doing nothing to keep the bad muslims out as he is not banning them from countries they actually come from.
          Thirdly, is US and UK didn't bomb the hell out of their countries we wouldn't have this issue of terrorism.
          Finally, NONE of these countries you say agree with Trump. One of our leading politicians in UK is trying to stop Trump speaking to our Parliament when he is here for a state visit. Our Prime Minister has opposed the views of Trump but wants to work with him FOR TRADE!!!!! Trump and German Chancellor Angela Merkel have publicly disagreed over policy.
          Again, pleas do some research. More weak responses.

  32. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Those who do not agree we need to ban Muslims for 90 days care nothing for the youth of this nation. America First.

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Why is Trump not banning Muslims from countries that have actually produced US threatening terrorists in the past? Please answer that

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Because it would mean war. Maybe they have governments he doesn't want to deal with. .. Needs to not touch with a billion kilometer pole.

  33. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Because it would mean war. Maybe they have governments he doesn't want to deal with. .. Needs to not touch with a billion kilometer pole.

    Also, He is the President and he has classified information he perhaps cannot disclose.

    1. profile image61
      Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      So why has he made such a big deal of banning muslims but not those from countries that produces them? Do you think a demagogue like Trump may of only said that to get elected, appealing to the Naïve and gullible, im sorry to say, like you, and only make a token effort of banning muslims when he gets into power?
      A man such as Trump cannot really be seen by any person with any intelligence as serious about protecting Americans from Terrorism when he does nothing to stop those who are more likely to carry out an act from coming to your county. Its all bullshit to get votes and please the easily pleasable who do not have the faculty for logic and reason

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        You are coming from a place of confrontation and emotion. I cannot respond to you any more.
        Have a good rest of your day.

        1. profile image61
          Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          I am coming from a place of reason and logic backed up by fact and common sense

          1. PhoenixV profile image81
            PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            What's the difference between the current caliphate and all the other caliphate in the last fourteen centuries?

            1. profile image61
              Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              None. They all fought other religions an other religions fought against them. Many died in the name of religion

              1. PhoenixV profile image81
                PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                So islam is unchanged in 14 centuries.

                1. profile image61
                  Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Islam hasn't always had caliphates. Those throughout history were brought about by rulers. I will agree with anyone that Islam has bad eggs and those bad eggs bring about pain and suffering. What I cannot sit still on is hypocrisy. Christianity has a vast history of bloodshed. One is not automatically better than the other. The British colonisation of India in the 1800's is a shameful stain on British History, one such stain of many. The native people suffered so Britai could expand its empire and increase its trade links (The East India Trading Company comes to mind) by doing what ever it wanted whenever it wanted to. Our role in the slave trade, shameful abuses of humans. Yes Caliphates are bad, but empire building of any nation has resulted in widespread pain & misery of those it seeks to rule. Its a zero sum game in pain and fear.

                  1. PhoenixV profile image81
                    PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    Well , I dont think Americans are interested in any caliphates any more than islam and sharia is interested in democracy or freedom of religion. There is a difference of ideology too. Jesus said to love enemies and led almost a life of pacifism. On the other hand mohammad once gave a reward for a severed head and behaved like a warlord.  Now, if any followers were to emulate that, well there is no IF really.

        2. profile image61
          Benjamin Jarvisposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Its a shame you cant respond to my comment about Trump allowing in Muslims from extremist countries. I would of liked to have read your response. Ive given you an opportunity to comment on why Trump will let in those more likely to be terrorists than those that are not.

  34. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "German Chancellor Angela Merkel has admitted that some terrorists entered Europe among the wave of migrants that fled from Syria adding that the refugee flow was used in part to “smuggle terrorists” on to the continent.

    Speaking to supporters of her Christian Democrat Union party in eastern Germany, Merkel admitted that militant groups had smuggled jihadists among those genuinely looking to seek asylum in Europe.

    “In part, the refugee flow was even used to smuggle terrorists,” she said, as cited by Reuters.

    Merkel’s open-door policy, which was criticized by a significant section of the German population, saw more than 1 million migrants arrive in Germany in 2015, with a number of those originating from Syria.

    The announcement from Merkel comes just over a week after Germany’s spy chief Hans Georg Maassen said the domestic intelligence agency had obtained information on 17 IS militants who had entered Europe under the guise of refugees."

    From: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/07/merk … h-refugees

  35. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "While America ushers in Islamic immigrants, Europe is pulling up the welcome mat.

    In recent months, both France and Britain have proposed imposing curbs on immigration out of fear of importing more terrorists. The bills will likely pass in the wake of the Paris massacre.

    Thanks to mass immigration from North Africa, France's Muslim population has swelled to 6.5 million, or 10% of its population. More than 1,000 French Muslims have joined IS. A recent poll found that 27% of French Muslims ages 18-24 support the Islamic State.

    Growing pockets of radicalism are spreading in towns throughout France. There are no-go zones for police, not just in Paris but all over the country. Authorities say that they've lost control of the situation. Muslim attacks on police and synagogues are now regular events.

    The problem has been that many of these Muslim immigrants refuse to integrate into Western society. And now some are killing their hosts."

    http://www.investors.com/politics/edito … lcome-mat/

  36. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    The Muslims need to bear the responsibility of rising to the occasion of dealing with terrorism.  Why don't they? Because the terrorists are absolutely NUTS. What do we do with people who are NUTS? The Muslims have no idea. No one has any idea, so the answer to my question is, Yes it is way too much to ask.
    BTW We can stop bashing Christians now.

  37. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Can we hold these Christian wackos accountable? If they are in this country yes, thanks to laws and enforcement of them:

    http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_moder … s_partner/

    But, these people aren't out for Americans as a whole. The terrorists are very aggressive using social media and indoctrination of the youth of their own and other countries.  They have an ultimate agenda and will stop at nothing.

    The Intent of Terrorist Groups

    "A terrorist group commits acts of violence to -

    Produce widesrpead fear.

    Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media.

    Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive.

    Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group.

    Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens.

    Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country's economy and support of the government in power.

    Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions.

    Free prisoners.

    Satisfy vengeance.

    Turn the tide in a guerrilla war by forcing government security forces to concentrate their efforts in urban areas. This allows the terrorist group to establish itself among the local populace in rural areas."

  38. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "Terrorism is a nasty form of public performance where the attack is often visible and played for a TV audience. Thus, the targets are typically high profile [major cities, national symbols] and mass media is a key tool to advertise the organization's key political messages.

    Like any advertiser a terrorist is after your eyeballs and your attention. They are after a population that needs ghastly/horrific images to see the news. Like any advertising it relies on shock, awe and incredulity. It is also asymmetric warfare, where a handful of people merged into a population fight a large military.

    Terror is especially useful against major democracies because the media audience can be persuaded to change political outcomes.

    There are a few key aspects of terrorism:
    The key is the psychological impact on a populace. To do that, common civilian targets are attacked and the victims can often be random. Where there is randomness, there is uncertainty. It is uncertainty that humans fear the most.
    There is a political aim at the core and a point to make with a major government. Often national symbols become targets.
    There is no hesitation to use mass violence [typically bombing] to attain the political means.
    The group usually doesn't have a recognized government of its own. That is why it is called a non-state actor. Thus, they don't often adhere to many of the international norms of warfare.
    It is usually fought in a decentralized mode. In contrast to militia or militaries, terrorists can be anywhere and often have only loose ties with other terrorists."

    "We should look to differentiate terrorism from other types of militancy/separatism, where the targets might not be high profile nor the attack is intended for mass media."

    Definition of Terrorism: The use of violence or the threat of violence to extort a target audience into accepting political change."
    From:
    https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-basi … -terrorism

  39. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Repeating: "Terror is especially useful against major democracies because the media audience can be persuaded to change political outcomes."

    "We should look to differentiate terrorism from other types of militancy/separatism, where the targets might not be high profile nor the attack is intended for mass media.

    Definition of (Islamic) terrorism:
    The use of violence or the threat of violence to extort a target audience into accepting political change."
    From:
    https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-basi … rrorism…

    ~~~~~>>Is it too much to ask our govt. to ban all news/media coverage regarding terrorist activities and tragedies?  Maybe even every country?
    LOL!

  40. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    How about this:
    If a terrorist, radical Muslim Extremists kills in the name of Radical Islam, (by proclaiming it on his iPhone at the time of slaughter, whether applied to an individual or groups of individuals,) they get the death penalty automatically.
      What?
    It has to be stopped!
    Every country should adapt this legislation immediately
    But no one will. Thus we eventually will have WWIII.
    Darn.

    1. Misfit Chick profile image92
      Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I know, right? No one stopped Christian militants ages ago, that's why so many of them believe they are faultless today. Again, you reap what you sow. History is written by the victors; and the next reformed generations are more & more removed and oblivious to it - until the truth of reality is almost completely gone.

      We were on the right track with Obama. Trump took us on a sharp U-turn.

      Relax. We're not dead, yet. Then again, world governments don't want us ALL dead cuz we're not nearly as profitable afterwards (or during) if the crowd gets too culled too fast. wink

      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13401954_f1024.jpg

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13401937.png

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13401939.jpg

      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13401940.jpg

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13401943_f1024.jpg

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13401947.jpg

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13401949.jpg

      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13401950.jpg

  41. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Conclusion: Yes, it is too much to ask to hold anyone accountable for Islamic terrorists except themselves, through laws they set forth in efforts of self-regulation.   Ha HA HA!!!!!!.

  42. profile image60
    marianneholmansposted 6 months ago

    I think holding all Muslims accountable for the spread of terrorism is a little bit like blaming all Christians for the Crusades and the thousands of atrocities Christians have committed in the past, however, I do get where you are coming from.

    There are many Muslims groups, for example LGBT groups, Quranist groups and Sufi groups who do actively and openly condemn radical Islam, sadly, the media doesn't like to focus on these groups as they don't have the media "wow" factor where as groups such as the Salafi/Saudi movement do.

    All three of your points do need to be addressed and you are right when you say Muslims need to study/worship God more closely instead of choosing one scholar and hanging off his every word without ever exploring other avenues of their faith or even reading the Qu'ran. This is mainly a cultural thing and is being addressed with women like Batool-al-Toma doing everything they can to reform Islam and stop terrorism.

    May I ask, and I am not being argumentative, how you would like to see these things addressed if the press can't be persuaded to actively exploit what is being done already?

    1. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this



      I welcome the blame for the Crusades. They shouldnt have messed with the tourists. Im not worried about radical islam and I definitely could care less who condemns it.  I dont care for the regular islam and sharia.

    2. Misfit Chick profile image92
      Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I'm not usually one to stick up for the media - but, being a marketing person, I understand why they do & say some stuff and not others for all kinds of manipulative reasons...

      The reason why they don't say much when those groups make a big deal is because their voices are not nearly as respected or as 'big of a deal' to the people who need to hear the message. However, get a well-respected 'conservative' Muslim Cleric who is actually FROM and LIVES IN the Middle East to say something - then you've got a story.

      Why don't the conservative ones in those countries say anything? Some of them would probably like to. Others are probably much like our own Christian conservative Ministors & Pastors, etc. Why do they approve and/or condemn the things they do - and why are they often so divided about it?

      Humans can use the Bible or the Koran or any Holy Book to validate any 'holy message' they perceive to be holy.

      Too bad we're not all taught the same BS, LoL! It is no-doubt the reason why God created a world of profound diversity.

      1. PhoenixV profile image81
        PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        One of your pictures there says mohammad taught love. Is that photo your position?

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
          Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          "How does a man love according to divine precept his neighbor as himself when, knowing that his Christian brothers in faith and in name are held by the perfidious Muslims in strict confinement and weighed down by the yoke of heaviest servitude, he does not devote himself to the task of freeing them? …Is it by chance that you do not know that many thousands of Christians are bound in slavery and imprisoned by the Muslims, tortured with innumerable torments?" Pope Innocent III,

          http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the- … e-crusades

        2. Misfit Chick profile image92
          Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          My position? I didn't create that photo, I collected it. The point is, messages come from various places & neither Muslims nor Christians are right in their extremism. That's what brings things like this to a head. Its history repeating itself. We reap what we sow over & over again - never learning, apparently.

          After 21 centuries, you'd think we'd catch a clue.

          I'm not sure where the Crusade stuff comes in with all this. Long before the crusades, Rome forced people into their pagan version of Christianity because the actual teachings of Jesus were considered to be an abomination by their very pagan leaders who needed a united empire. In this respect, Islam has Jesus in the more correct light than Christianity does. "Trinity" is a beloved pagan concept that separates us from God. How many individual people, families & whole groups did Christian armies slaughter just because they didn't believe in their same manmade religious structures? Wars have been fought over it.

          I'd say Kathryn is really good at cutting & pasting from other sources. Its a little difficult to develop a viewpoint not based in fear when that is the foundation of your perspective. Fear rules the world cuz nothing else matters - and fear with make it burn. Again.

          1. PhoenixV profile image81
            PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Nevertheless, you are not going to pack your bags and fly to Saudi Arabia, believing that islam merely has an extremist problem.

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              There's the funny thing. Everyone loves to point out that Christianity has had its problem with extremism also but, for the most part, Christianity has risen above its dark past. You do have a backward nation or two and there is the occasional incident where some crazy person claims their Christian beliefs forced them to perpetuate violence but the freedoms of the West are the result of Christianity learning from the problems associated with religion ruling. The dark past of Islam is its present and its future as long as that religion maintains a stranglehold on individual thought and freedom.

              1. PhoenixV profile image81
                PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Ima dude, and I dont understand a woman from the west that does not advocate for women as you do in these regards.  I do not get it. Do you understand it?

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Do I understand it? Apparently not. I was simply pointing out that Islam is and will probably remain backward unlike Christianity which continues to march forward. How am I not advocating what?

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    You're right - Christianity has evolved far beyond the primitive, uncivilized teachings of the bible to something more moral.  Islam has failed miserably in that regard, and it doesn't seem to be the small difference in age.  At the time these religions were born things moved at a snail's pace, but that is no longer true and Islam has had ample time to grow and develop.

                  2. PhoenixV profile image81
                    PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    I am saying that I have seen you worry about the rights of women in islam.  I do not understand why other women from the west pretend like there is no problem.

  43. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    "In recent years, a powerful social movement has demanded that the West, and specifically the churches, apologize for the medieval crusading movement. In this view, the Crusades represented aggression, pure and simple, against the Muslim world, and nobody can deny the resulting wars involved their share of atrocities. Underlying the movement for apology, though, is the assumption that religious frontiers are somehow carved in stone, and that Muslim states of the Near East must always and infallibly have been destined to be part of the world of Islam. An equally good case can be made that the medieval Middle East was no more inevitably Muslim than other regions conquered by Islam and subsequently liberated, like Spain and Hungry.

    "Nor, curiously, do Westerners suggest that Muslims apologize for the aggressive acts that gave them power over those various lands in the first place. Westerners have simply forgotten the [brutalization and conquest of these] once great Christian communities of the Eastern World."

    (Ed. Note: Muslims never apologize for anything. They claim all their acts are by Allah's will and direction through Muhammad as recorded in the Qur'an/Koran. So, for them, no apologies are due for the 9/11World Trade Center bombing or anything else.)
    From
    http://www.christian-community.org/libr … sades.html

    1. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Ms Misfit here has posted a picture about mohamnad  taught love his religion was love.

      Kathryn who was Asma bint Marwan.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        She was a female member of the Ummayad clan who lived in Medina in 7th century Arabia. Bint Marwan was known for having ridiculed the people of Medina for obeying a chief not of their kind."

        "Blaming Islam and its followers she said:

        'I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit
        and Auf and B. al-Khazraj.
        You obey a stranger who is none of yours,
        One not of Murad or Madhhij.
        Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs
        Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?
        Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise
        And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?'

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Asma'_bint_Marwan

        1. PhoenixV profile image81
          PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          .
          And mohammads response?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
            Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            "Hassan b. Thabit answered her:

            "Banu Wa'il and B. Waqif and Khatma
            Are inferior to B. al-Khazrahj.
            When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping,
            For death is coming.
            She stirred up a man of glorious origin,
            Noble in his going out and in his coming in.
            Before midnight he dyed her in her blood
            And incurred no guilt thereby."
            When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Umayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so Umayr went back to his people.

            Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [daughter of] Marwan. She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting." That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was Umayr b. Adiy who was called the "Reader", and Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam."

            1. PhoenixV profile image81
              PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?

              The apologetics on it are: maybe it never happened but it would be justified because her poetry made her an enemy combatant.

              Its fear Kathryn. Silence by fear or death. Its pretty calculated.

  44. terra gazelle profile image61
    terra gazelleposted 6 months ago

    Blue Eyed devils? where exactly did you get that? Maybe after the Crusaders went to what was the land of the Muslims and invaded it...killing, raping, taking what ever they could carry off..and they were sent to do that by the Pope. They were promised to have all their sins disapear and free entry into heaven if they took the land.
    So the crusaders did..3 different times..there was also the Children's crusade...

    The Crusaders came back saying that their horses bridles were red with the blood of the Muslims.
    Blue eyed devils> I bet ya we called The native Americans red skins...and something like a good indiand was a dead indian..didn't we?

    And there have been more  people killed because of Christians then Muslims...
    as a Pagan I know a bit of history of what early Christians did to  the old religions.

    MUslims have nothing on the so holy Christian fathers. What they did to the Jews, the native Americans, the  so called Witches..beheading, drowning, burning...the Muslims are pikers compared.

    I have not been afraid for years and have been very open to my beliefs..now I fear.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
      Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Maybe after the Crusaders went to what was the land of the Muslims and invaded it...killing, raping, taking what ever they could carry off..and they were sent to do that by the Pope. They were promised to have all their sins disapear and free entry into heaven if they took the land.
      So the crusaders did..3 different times..there was also the Children's crusade…

      Uh no. This is not accurate history ...
      at all.
      "...the Crusades. ... were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense."

      " … the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression—an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.

      Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War.

      Christianity—and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion—has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

      With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed’s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East."
      http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the- … e-crusades

  45. PhoenixV profile image81
    PhoenixVposted 6 months ago

    You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.


    Or


    Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?

  46. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Therefore we must screen Muslims from these countries (and others) carefully. It is also important not to create conditions which would enable members of Islamic extremism to proliferate.

    Meanwhile:
    A new Saudi-led Islamic alliance to fight terrorism will share information and train, equip and provide forces if necessary for the fight against Islamic State militants, Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir said on Tuesday.

    Saudi Arabia announced earlier on Tuesday the formation of a 34-nation Islamic military coalition to combat terrorism, a move welcomed by the United States which has been urging a greater regional involvement in the campaign against the militants who control swathes of territory in Iraq and Syria.

    "Nothing is off the table," al-Jubeir said when asked whether the initiative could include troops on the ground.

    "It depends on the requests that come, it depends on the need and it depends on the willingness of countries to provide the support necessary," he told a news briefing in Paris.

    A statement carried by Saudi state news agency SPA said the new coalition would have a joint operations center based in Riyadh to "coordinate and support military operations".

    The states it listed as joining the new coalition included Egypt, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan and several African nations.

    The list did not include Shi'ite Muslim Iran, the arch rival of Sunni Saudi Arabia for influence across the Arab world. Tehran and Riyadh are ranged on opposite sides in proxy conflicts in Syria and Yemen.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi … PG20151215
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Military_Alliance

  47. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Raheel Sharif was named the IMA's first Commander-in-Chief. Commander-in-chief General Sharif has stressed in his terms and conditions to Saudi Arabia and explicitly stated that "military alliance is against terrorism not Iran." Shia Muslim countries in the alliance include Bahrain and Lebanon.

    The IMA has stated that its primary objective is to protect the Muslim countries from all terrorist groups and terrorist organizations irrespective of their sect and name. The IMA has reaffirmed that it would operate in line with the United Nations (UN) and Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) provisions on terrorism.

    The IMA has stated that it will fight terrorists in "Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt and Afghanistan". The IMA is expected to deploy military forces into Syria to fight ISIS."

    Criticism
    Due to the dominance of the alliance by states having majority Sunni Muslim populations, it has been called “a sectarian coalition” by Hakeem Azameli, a member of the Security and Defense Commission in the Iraqi parliament.

    ( "Sunnis greatly outnumber Shiites, constituting nearly 90% of the global community of Muslims. The governments of some Persian Gulf countries—including Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates—are Sunni, while Iran and Iraq are ruled by Shiites. Syria’s regime is Alawite, a Shiite offshoot." http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2016/01/04 … d-shiites/)

  48. PhoenixV profile image81
    PhoenixVposted 6 months ago

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Sigmund_Freud_LIFE.jpg

    So you would rather have let them continue sacrificing.animals? Doves and sheep?

    Fascinating

  49. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Actions are driven by intentions. It is the intentions we need to analyze! For instance, Jesus used the power of anger to change behaviors. He had to put up a boundary: No marketing/selling/collecting money for materialistic reasons in a house of WORSHIPING the divine, the invisible, the NON MATERIAL.
    The intention of apostle Mohammed was to kill the girl because she was unaccepting of his rulership. His rulership that was tyranny, egotism, self-proclamation.
    The Way I ….

    1. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015712/rs_1024x759-150812103434-1024.bambi.cm.81215.jpg

      Why would anyone support these two demise?

    2. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Love your neighbor

      Vs

      Who will rid me of a girl.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Do Muslims get the former message from their religion and followers of Islam, the latter?

        Then on top of Muslim vs Islam, you have Shiite vs Suuni!

        These people cannot come together at all!
        They need our prayers.
        We are all one under God. We are immortal
        We are ALL His children.

        http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/sunnisshiites.html

        1. PhoenixV profile image81
          PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Been awhile since I read the koran and I am not from the culture. I have reason to believe that "imposing a caliphate" would be considered difficult - yet considered a good thing and goal to accomplish.

  50. Kathryn L Hill profile image87
    Kathryn L Hillposted 6 months ago

    Love thy neighbor because your neighbor is as you. Treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated.



    Now here is something interesting.
    some of these terrorists are willing to die for the cause promoted by Extreme Islam.
    Why?
    What happened to the instinct to preserve one's life, which after all is a very strong (understatement) instinct in human beings?

    1. PhoenixV profile image81
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      I think Iran used human waves to clear minefields in Iran-Iraq war. Not as certain but may have used unarmed hunan waves to take tank machine gun fire.

 
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