The Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity is very confusing ...can someone help explain this...I need one of those uh huh moments please
From Gods Garden
God and the holy spirit is like Shiva and Shakti.
Shiva being the source and Shakti -creation from the source-everything.
Father is Shiva.
Son is us .
Shakti is the spirit that pervades everything.
Like the representation or meaning of the Shiva linga. The pillar in the centre is god the source of light.
The circle around it is shakti or what comes from the light- all of creation-The Holy Spirit.
This idea was taken (wrongly some think) from the Egyptian trinity - Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit, in an effort to overthrow "pagan" religions yet at the same time keep the same basic stories.
It is of course, nonsensical and clashes badly with the christian statement that there is only one god. As far as I remember there is nothing in the bible about a trinity so it was added later.
Maybe a Celtic influence, too - the Celts believed that everything spiritual came in threes.
Like pints: one to drink in one, because I'm thirsty; one to sup, and one to save me having to go to the bar again in a minute?
That is the best description of the Trinity that I have ever heard - They should teach that in Sunday School.
Interesting, the Hindu trinity is different .You have Brhama as the creator, Vishnu and the preserver and Shiva as the destroyer.
On the contrary the Bible speaks often delineating between different personalities in the Trinity. While the word "Trinity" is never used the names Holy Spirit, Father, and Son are used quite often.
There was a bug in the syncresis - there ended up being some stories in which Horus was married to Isis and some in which he was her son, making himself his own father.
When elements of his story were imported into early pre-Christian culture, the whole "being his own father" part was quite significant.
The writers of the Gospels spent some time and effort trying to craft the story of Jesus to match both the Jewish prophecies and those of the other Middle eastern mystical traditions, which meant they had to get Jesus being his own father in there somehow. Hence Immaculate Conception.
God the Creator, Holy Spirit the Impregnator, and Jesus the Son.
P.S. Those of you who go "seeking the Holy Spirit", be careful what you wish for ...
More detailed version in The Risen God
Yes and the Egyptians also believed in the creation of the Universe and depicted in their drawings the story where "god" masturbates and ejaculates into the Universe and all things were born. -that is my favorite!
There are other stories before Horus and Isis of a man who believed that to pay proper worship to the Creator, that the temple should be outside in the open under the sun where everyone could come, instead of a chamber buried deep in the pyramids were only a select few could worship. This by a man who was not royalty, not a pharaoh and he was not rich but he was noble.
I think that the stories are similar but in the Holy Spirit, is something else because the same spirit that existed then by "inspiration" is the same spirit that exist now.
the Jesus character or god character is depicted in several different ways in all of history but the Holy Spirit continues to drive people in the right direction, towards love and acceptance etc.
Good thread topic Gods Garden.
St. Patrick compared the Holy Trinity to a three leaf clover, the three leaves being part of the one plant.
I like how Sandra compared the Trinity to the three elements of water in another thread.
I like Lisa's egg comparison too.
The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there are not three Gods but one God. In this Trinity the Son is begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.
My New American Catholic Bible, John 14:26 reads, "The Advocate, the Holy Spirit, that the Father will send in my name- he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you."
Father, Christ, the Holy Spirit (your advocate)
I have my own personal views about the Holy Trinity, I would like to think that they are scriptural in nature. My page at "Christian facts and popular myths".
The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost.
God, our father and creator, Jesus the son and I'm a bit foggy myself about the Holy Ghost part, but the main idea is that they are all God and he encompasses all. Jesus is God.
I'm afraid that's the best I can do. I don't know enough about it to try to explin it better, I'm afraid I would screw it up
You and I have the same understanding...and appear to get tripped at the same point...TY for commenting
lol I thought you said 'I'm a bit froggy'
Holy Trinity is: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons, one Godhead. I'm sure someone will be along to expand etc - me and Janetta seem to have the right idea ... but we lack the details.
You know, I've a long spiel to add to this. And please don't take me for a loon, or someone trying to pervert your truth.
But I often wonder....
Religion has grown with mankind over centuries and has evolved and changed, fractured and mutated.
But when you break down many of the religions, there's always some basic concepts.
If we are to say that the Holy Trinity encompasses all then, and that God made Man in his image, I feel that we're due for a final change into form.
First you had many Gods, then one. And now, it's time to strip back the layers and realize: we are God. Or rather, are actions can be of God.
As I've mentioned in another post on this same forum, and in some of my works, we're all connected, we're all energy and mass. Everything is, and that everything can easily be referenced as God.
Or, as some people put it, we're but "fingers on a Godhand," and we're merely God playing with it's self, as all consciousness is but a reflection of God being that God is all encompassing.
Hope I didn't lose anyone there, that's just a weird tangent I thought kinda pertinent. Didn't want to bother making a whole new thread.
The Holy Spirit was given to us when Jesus left His life on Earth. He is the comforter, and remains with us until the beginning of the Tribulations, as I understand it. Confused at that point as I don't believe in the Rapture as many do.
In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit was present, but intermittently and only for certain people. We all have the Holy Spirit now if we accept Him.
The theory is intense and hard to wrap ones mind around
excellent explanation, EM. That sounds like what I'd heard before--The Holy Spirit is in us all if we accept him--well done
---Your welcome Gods Garden I did my best
---Frog-- hehe I'm always a bit Froggy
It's been a long time, but perhaps I can help:
God the creator of all
Jesus- The embodiment of God in the flesh/ God made into man
The Holy Spirit- God in spririt, with mankind yet not of mankind.
3 components of one Godhead the way an egg has 3 components: Shell, whites and yolk; yet all are the egg.
All 3 are individuals or one???? I've been trying to wrap my mind around this for some time now...it seems the more I learn the more confused I become...
It has been a long time since I was a Christian, but I'll see if I can explain it:
According to Christianity, there is one God....however, his divinity was shared/split with two other personas/individuals- Jesus/God the Flesh & The Holy Ghost/God the Spirit....3 individuals/entities, each with their own purpose, but sharing the same divinity.
They are both GG. The egg analogy was perfect. The yolk is seperate part of the egg, but is still the egg. The Holy Trinity is three FORMS of God, but still all God.
Its when I have two hots chicks in bed with me at the same time and we are reading my hubs.
LOL, GT, How come that didn't get revealed in your interview with Amy G? That's priceless!
Brings to mind a song that was popular years ago, sung by a sultry woman (whose name escapes me):
The only one who could ever reach me,
was the son of a preacher man
The only one who could ever teach me
was the son of a preacher man
He was, he was, oh yes he was!!!!
(Bobbie Gentry maybe?)
That's a great song! I did a hub about religion back in my first month. But it was half religious-half political but I didn't get the attacks I thought I would from the religious nuts.
Did I mention the person starting this thread made a lame attempt at trying to pretend "not to know" I see him wanting to scream "in the name of Jesus!" to everyone.
You just mentioned my all time favorite song! :-)
The original singer is Dusty Springfield.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZWEEm6x … re=related
I don't think I would have had any interest in religion if it wasn't for the son of a preacher man. :-)
I'm going to go look up that vintage GT hub and get all 700 Club on it -- assuming, of course, it's still published and not taken down.
God is the Father and Jesus is His son. And the Holy Spirit is there to guide us, the one that lives in us. And they are all different facets of God. hope that helps. just try praying to God and Jesus
I think of the holy trinity as the idea of the moon when it is new and moving towards full as the source, creator, whatever you like to call it, full moon is the culmination or manifestation point, and the waning phase is the return of creation to its origin, or the destuctive phase.
Interestingly,the direct marketing organisation I work for during the day which is a kitchen company turning over about ten million pounds sterling a year emphasises the trinity idea. Leads should be generated and then a third will confirm and pitch. We have three call centres and six door canvassing teams generating leads.So the idea of threes as the basis of everything also applies to direct marketing.
I think the hindu ideas are possibly a mirror of this process of waxing and waning moon, and I always like to get in a word for my favorite cosmic object.
I suspect that the idea of holy spirit is present in many societies, reiki certainly feels like something similar to me and has led me in all sorts of directions over the past ten years. I had a kriya yoga initiation which was also something similar in which a bloke in robes opened my third eye by pressing on particular points on the side of my face. I'm sure the process is passed down in many spiritual initiation ceremonies in many cultures.
I enjoy reading you.The full moon does have a spiritual side.I gained enlightenment on a full moon as many others have.Then according to astrology I am at my peak energy levels from the no moon till four days after the no moon.Dont understand this.
The moon is the mother of our solar system. It gives energy and takes energy away. People turn into lunatics at the full moon, turn normal at no moon. People turn into werewolves at the full moon, and turn back into human at no moon. The moon gives and takes. Gosh, forget I said anything, Mohit.
Joseph or Yusuf had a dream where the Sun, the Moon and the Twelve Stars surrounded him. This was later translated to mean, his family. That is, the twelve stars being his twelve brothers. The Sun his Dad. And the Moon, obviously his Mom. The Moon is the Mother. When we speak of prophecy, we speak of, in ten moons, or twelve moons and so so. We use the moon to typify the giving in of time and occurrences. The moon is full of mystery. It yields light, yet has no light of its own. It takes light from the sun, and sends it to the Earth. It takes and gives, like a Mother.
Some astroligical facts- you see the same side of the moon, maximum of 54%. Her revoluton is exactly out rotation.
Buddha got enlightened on a full moon.
Shiva the Hindu god , his day is the new moon, the crescent moon.
Mulsims also have the new moon next to the star.
Ok first you have to understand the Hebrew. In Genesis one of the word for God is Elohim. It is plural in formation and can mean many gods or the God of Israel
I read a book by an orthodox jew explaining this as the multiple traits of god's personality...like we have multiple traits.
Now, lets put this on the back burner for a second. The word for the Holy spirit in the Old Testament is Roch...It is feminine in nature and can mean breath.
Jesus is obviously masculine. So you have God and his feminine trait, the holy spirit and the masculine trait, jesus.
Ok now going back to the Jews wandering the desert. It says that God spoke to them at Mount Sinai and they SAW his voice, which means his voice took on a physical appearance...
According to John, In the beginning was the word and the word WAS god and was WITH god. So jesus was the manifestation of gods work. God spoke and jesus was created and his spirit inhabitated him...all the same...that is how they are not separate...it is better to think of them as different personalities...
God must have hillbilly roots. He made love to his mama and so he is the son and and the dad, the ghost is what happens when God's dad came around.
Before Nimrod, Zoroaster, Baal, Hadad, Adad, Melquart, Zeus, Baphomet, Horus, Isis, Osiris, Ra, Dionysus, Aion, Adonis, Attis, Mithras, Bacchus, Julunggul, Hun Hunahpu, Tammuz, Damazi, Hedammu, Adonis, the Phoenician Phoenix, Ishtar, Inanna, Astarte, Anunit, Atarsamain, Quetzalcoatl, Cernnunos, Xalmoxis and all the rest there was God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Nimrod (also known as Zoroaster) was the first human being to be called a god. He is associated with the construction of the Tower of Babel. Nimrod is identified with a complex of Mediterranean deities; among those are Asar, Baal, Dumuzi and Osiris. There is also a connection between Nimrod and Freemasonry.
Nimrod was Noah's great grand son and began the kingdom of Babylon (yeah Noah from the great flood). This can be verified in chapter 10 of this historical book called Genesis.
The Holy Trinity from the beginning.
"And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters." (Genesis 1:2)
"And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
Jesus Christ is the Word.
Thanks for this informative response, Make Money. However, I don't see any references to Jesus Christ throughout time by humanity besides his life and the new testament..and all the stuff that came afterwords.
Can you site specific examples of this? I would truly appreciate it.
There's a saying, "the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament" meaning through out the Old Testament it talks about a coming savior. Besides the two verses from Genesis that I posted above that mention the Holy Spirit and the plural, "make man to our image" I'll try to find some more verses that help show this.
"4 And I will multiply thy seed like the stars of heaven: and I will give to thy posterity all these countries: and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. 5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my precepts and commandments, and observed my ceremonies and laws." Genesis 26:4-5
"The sceptre shall not be taken away from Juda, nor a ruler from his thigh, till he come that is to be sent, and he shall be the expectation of nations." Genesis 49:10
"Out of Jacob shall he come that shall rule, and shall destroy the remains of the city." Numbers 24:19
"He shall build a house to my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever." 2 Kings 7:13 This would be 2 Samuel in the King James Bible. The Douay-Rheims Bible (Catholic Bible) has 4 Kings, 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel being the first two.
"Behold my servant, I will uphold him: my elect, my soul delighteth in him: I have given my spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles" Isaias 42:1
"Give ear, ye islands, and hearken, ye people from afar. The Lord hath called me from the womb, from the bowels of my mother he hath been mindful of my name." Isaias 49:1
"13 Behold my servant shall understand, he shall be exalted, and extolled, and shall be exceeding high. 14 As many have been astonished at thee, so shall his visage be inglorious among men, and his form among the sons of men. 15 He shall sprinkle many nations, kings shall shut their mouth at him: for they to whom it was not told of him, have seen: and they that heard not, have beheld." Isaias 52:13-15
"But he was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his bruises we are healed." Isaias 53:5
"And the Lord was pleased to bruise him in infirmity: if he shall lay down his life for sin, he shall see a long-lived seed, and the will of the Lord shall be prosperous in his hand." Isaias 53:10
"Therefore will I distribute to him very many, and he shall divide the spoils of the strong, because he hath delivered his soul unto death, and was reputed with the wicked: and he hath borne the sins of many, and hath prayed for the transgressors." Isaias 53:12
I hope that helps lxxy
type trinity into Wikipedia and you will get a lot of information, i can tell you that there is more than one version of the trinity, this was not so when it began. also, the trinity is not taught explicitly in the bible, if it was, there would not be so much confusion on the matter. for instance there is no confusion about jesus's death for our sins.
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