Hey guys, put yourself in my shoes for a sec here. I know its hard as hell, but just try. How would you feel if someone was spreading abominable stuff about your country? Stuff you know for a fact isn't true. How do you know it isn't true? Well, for starters, you live in the country, and something as big a deal like kids getting burnt ought to be big news, it would be make front pages nationwide. You dont hide that kinda news. Second, which is the most important part - the place where this sacriledge is supposedly committed, I have been there like a thousand and forty three times and nothing of that sort goes on there. The place if anything should be the 8th wonder of the world. Its so damn beautiful. Nature and all. A divine picturesque for heaven's sake! So Eric, despite all the facts in my favor against you, I mean what hear-say or see source should you believe than me, huh? It seems like he's a bit proud to admit that he's thread is all wrong and factless. Hey, he threatening he's gonna report me to be banned. I laugh. Make my day, Eric. You'll be making me a wuchmacallit - National hero. And there I was thinking that the Era of freedom fighting and Mandela was over! Lol. I like hubpages, but if everyone is gonna hold that notion about my country being a land of beastly people who burn up little kids I dont think I wanna hang around anymore. Its not worth it. I'll be too messed up about it. So anyone still think there's truth in this, let me know now?
There is good and bad in every country, your avatar is burning you up.... where is the handsome guy we know and love xx
I've personally never heard such atrocities about Nigeria. I can only say I hope people are smart enough to NOT believe everything they hear and see from the media. I know I don't. I can understand feeling like one wants to defend his/her country, however. I know the US hasn't had the best reputation of late... I think it's natural to want to dispel untruths about our countries of origin. Especially if it's such an ugly blatant lie. For those propogating these "facts", I sure hope they have a reputable source they're willing to cite. No doubt about it, every country has its good and bad. But, untruths are worth defending. I think HP can be beneficial for us to come together, educate each other. I'm most willing to listen to a person who actually LIVES in said "accused" country.
Yes Wordscribe, I have.
I was not going to post here, but the bullying, arrogant behaviour of the OP makes it necessary.
Most people won't know that this post relates to one I made about the children in Nigeria who are being accused of being witches, and who are being killed and maimed in various ways.
Here is my original post. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/16560
It's not pretty reading, and it contains links to many resources that any thinking person would accept over the flimsy protestations of the OP.
The OP is of the opinion that this is all a media beatup that is intended to discredit Nigeria and Africa. As I have said before, this is not the case, and I agree with him that Africa and Nigeria is a beautiful place.
Szuszybee and London Girl: thanks for your posts. I hope that the OP does not start making personal attacks on you, as he has made upon me many times.
Read the links in my hub. Read the OP's rants and raves.
And come to your own decision about who is right.
And wordscribe, if the facts in the links I have provided are not sufficient to help you make up your mind, then just google "Nigerian Witch Children".
You'll find hundreds of authoratative references from the worlds most respected media organisations, confirmation from African government agencies, and eye witness accounts from people who have been helping these poor children.
It disturbs me that the OP has raised this issue in this forum post, and then has attacked two reputable ladies who have dared to disagree with him.
It's admirable that his friends stick up for him. However, at some stage even they must remove the blinkers from their eyes.
And I see that he's even started turning on his friends.
Take a look at this person. Look at his behaviour and conduct. Make your own assessment of his credibility or otherwise.
I think occasionally we (the universal we) make posts without knowledge of prior "discussions". I'm reluctant to use that word since what often begins as innocuous banter, quickly becomes out of hand slander. I'm afraid I tread into unknown rough waters earlier. I had no idea the previous post existed. Eric, thanks for sharing that information with me.
Therefore, I was merely relaying the fact that the media has a horiffic propensity towards sensationalism, taking things out of context and portraying isolated incidents as commonplace. Naturally, I don't believe everything I read.
I have spent some time reading up on this topic, from your links, to Londongirl's cites and from my own Google search. I cannot say I readily accept any content coming from a documentary. However, I agree there are reputable sources citing these atrocities towards Nigerian children. Therefore, at this point, I cannot dismiss the probability of these horrific acts, unfortunately. Simultaneously, I believe it's still worth our time to pick the brains of the people who actually live in Nigeria. I can't ignore what accofranco or fierycj say.
I appreciate your bringing this to my attention. I'm certainly the last person who would ever bury my head in the sand when it comes to children being victimized. I've dedicated my life as a clinical social worker to fighting for children in very disturbing conditions. I'm definitely not naive. I do, however, believe such cruel acts could (and do) occur everywhere, certainly not just in Nigeria and other parts of Africa. Horrific things happen to children in the US daily. They could happen anywhere, of course.
What saddens me is the way these topics spiral into personal attacks. Oh well, I live in the land of unicorns and fairies, I guess. I can just so readily see how these threads could take another, more amicable and productive path. I'm afraid I've missed some previous "comments" and am unaware of some of the nuances underlying people's responses...???
Thanks to all who posted links.
I agree Fiery, sometimes people are shown documentaries on TV which sensationalise stuff and take it out of context and because they're seeing it on TV, they believe it. I have to say, people in the rest of the world are always ready to believe the worst about Africa. We are the dark continent, the unknown, and for some reason, that causes fear. So one incident is taken, a documentary is made and people then think that all Africans are like that and they generalise it. The stereotype they have for us Africans is a starving, aggressive, child soldier who poaches wild animals, rapes other children and has AIDS. The truth is, many Africans live in first world cities in Africa and live first world lives. While a lot of Africa is third world and still developing, there are parts that aren't. Not all developing parts of Africa are at war, many are living peacefully. Many people make a huge deal about the corruption in Africa, but there is just as much corruption elsewhere. I think, before people start being negative about our continent, they should come and visit it and see it for themselves. They might be in for a pleasant surprise. There is bad stuff that goes on, but there's a lot of good as well. People just tend to focus on the bad, and not celebrate the good.
Wordscribe, Cindyvine, you're both geniuses. No kidding. I couldn't have articulated it better.
Africa is one of the places I want to visit more than any. I've heard wonderful things about it from my friends who've been there.
I respect you for sticking up for your country. I don't know why people are so interested in focusing on the bad (when it's not even true). I guess it's the same obsession people have with spreading rumors about celebrities. Maybe it makes them feel a little better about themselves? I don't know, just my guess.
You outta check out my Travel hubs on Nigeria The Heart of Africa, Wordscribe.
I did just read: Africa: A Force of Nature. Great hub, I left a comment. Will check out the ones on Nigeria as well.
People always want to believe the worst, it seems to be a part of our psyche. Look at the newspapers, most of it is all about the bad stuff that happens.
It's true. Why do you think that's the case, cindyvine? Fiercycj?
Cos I think subconsciously, a lot of people still a Africa is land of ape-like men beating their chests, and swinging from tree to tree. Even my home girl, Brenda doesnt believe I'm African. She thinks I'm American or something for heaven's sake. Lol.
Fierycj- I know what I am able to say may not please you and seek your forgiveness in advance. My friend I know that there are many things about third world countries like Nigeria, India and other countries that people tend to believe as common practices. But at the same time there are some things talked about India which I wish wasn't true at all. There maybe remote isolated incidents and no way close to normal practices but unfortunately bad/sad incidents make news and not the good/wonderful news about other countries. Please don't get me wrong and hate me for saying this my friend. I hope I haven't upset you anymore than you already are. Have a great weekend my friend.
You're not upsetting me. Not in the least. You do have a point. But I'm not trying to paint Nigeria into some fairytopia, hell no. I'm just saying that little bit of info about burning little kids is outrageous. And I happen to know, cos I'm there. Thats all.
Burning kids? Not aware of that in particular, but Nigeria does have serious human rights concerns in relation to secret groups and cults.
The Ogboni cult, for example, is a pretty nasty group, don't you think?
19.15 A report by Leo Igwe, published by Earthward, in 2005 added:
"Generally, ritual killing is a common practice in Nigeria. Every year, hundreds of Nigerians lose their lives to ritual murders, also known as head-hunters. These head hunters [sic] go in search of human parts – head, breast, tongue, sexual organs – at the behest of witchdoctors, juju priests and traditional medicine men who require them for some sacrifices or for the preparation of assorted magical portions [sic]. Recently, there have been several reported cases of individuals who were kidnapped, killed or had their bodies mutilated by ritualists in Nigeria…and now, the question is: why do Nigerians still engage in such bloody, brutal and barbaric acts and atrocities even in this 21st century? For me [Igwe], there are three reasons for that.
"1. Religion: Nigerian is a deeply religious society. Most Nigerians believe in the existence of supernatural beings, and that these transcendental entities can be influenced through ritual acts and sacrifices. Ritual making constitutes part of the people's traditional religious practice and observance. Nigerians engage in ritual acts to appease the gods, seek supernatural favours or to ward off misfortune. Many do so out of fear of unpleasant spiritual consequences, if they default. So at the root of spiritual killing in Nigeria is religion, theism, supernaturalism and occultism.
"2. Superstition:- Nigeria is a society where most beliefs are still informed by unreason, dogmas, myth making and magical thinking. In Nigeria, belief in ghosts, juju, charms and witchcraft is prevalent and widespread. Nigerians believe that magical portions [sic] prepared with human heads, breasts, tongues, eyes, and sexual organs can enhance one's political and financial fortunes; that juju, charms and amulets can protect individuals against business failures, sickness and diseases, accidents and spiritual attacks. In fact, ritual-making is perceived as an act of spiritual fortification.
"3. Poverty:- Most often, Nigerians engage [in] killing for money-making purposes. Among Nigerians, there is this popular belief in a special kind of ritual, performed with human blood or body parts that can bring money or wealth, even though such a belief lacks any basis in reason, science or common sense [sic].
"For example, there has never been a single proven instance of any Nigerian who became rich through a money making ritual. And still the belief in 'ritual wealth' or 'blood money' remain strong among the people, and features prominently in the nation's media and film industry. Most times, what we hear are stories and speculations founded on ignorance and hearsay. For instance Nigerians who enrich themselves through dubious and questionable means, like the scammers who swindle foreigners, are said to have indulged in money-making rituals using the blood or body parts of their parents, wives, children or other close relations. So driven by ignorance, poverty, desperation, gullibility and irrationalism, Nigerians murder fellow Nigerians for rituals."
i've never heard more crap in my entire life. I put together all the crap i've heard in my entire life, and thats a lot, and it doesnt even touch this one by a hair's breath. First of all, ritual killing is more or less an urban legend. If it existed who would know about it. Murders and disappearances in Nigeria are just like crimes of the same in any other country. Gimme a break, let me school you. Say you're a ritualist, and you're in a cult, and you killed someone for money or for some deity, would you talk about it? C'mon think with your heads people. People disappear and die in the West, its just statistics, high rise in Crime ratio. Same thing goes down in Naija Oh no, its something weird, its friggin Berserkers on man hunt. Pls people find some other country to smeer. This is so typical. You and Eric will make a nice couple. No kidding.
It's a Nigerian report, written by a Nigerian, which I quoted from. So calm down, sunshine.
Fiery, I can't speak for Nigeria, but I know child sacrifice is still widespread in some parts of southern Africa because I lived there.
Like you, I never heard about it in the news, because the newspapers were government controlled: they suppressed all reporting because they were afraid it would hurt tourism. It just so happened that I was neighbours with medical staff and social workers who were dealing, quietly and compassionately, with the consequences. I'm quite sure most people would have been shocked to know it was going on.
Nigeria is a big country, how can you possibly know what is going on all over it?
Wow LondonGirl, well said. I've spend days now reading up on all that's going on in Nigeria and area as I wanted to be well informed before I commented on any of this. I came up with the same conclusions as you but you have said it much better then I could have.
I hate to say this to you all here but wearing blinders and not seeing things that are wrong does not make it that it's not happening.
If we in the rest of the world get to see documentaries about horrors being done to children in the name of religion, or people being slaughtered just because they are the wrong color, the wrong religion or of the wrong political belief and if we were to ignore these atrocities then we would be just as guilty as the monsters who are performing them.
Your types of attitude, hiding behind rose colored glasses is what lets holocausts and genocide happen. The past when the world still had hiding spots and everyone was ignorant of happenings a few hundred miles away is over. Technology has seen to it that it is over by opening up the world.
Now we can not just stand by, we have no excuse anymore to ignore horrors and evil that are being done especially if they're being done to helpless children. We have an obligation to each other as human beings no matter if these atrocities were to happen in Nigeria, in India at the South pole or Tim-buck-two. We need to be aware so we can help fix whats wrong.
You can lump my opinion if you like and get angry with me but in the long run you will still need to face the facts that we all have to be held responsible and ignoring IT will not make IT go away.
Bee or whatever your name is. Quit the melodrama. No one is ignoring anything. I'm just saying this piece of info isn't true. And I dont have to rely on stuff I read or browse either. I know cos I live there.
The name is Zsuzsy Bee... Like I said ignorance like yours is and has caused many lives
That is going a bit far don't you think, he is not ignorant how dare you say that.....
I'm thinking you are denying things way too loudly. Are you a part of all that's going on?
Do you mean do I feel better, wrote a poem about a mouse it did the trick
So why the hell were you and Sufi making fun about my Directorial ambition?
Fiery - I said (twice) that I was looking forward to the filming in a couple of years, and I was being serious.
I was certainly not making fun of you!
Couple of years is making fun of me. Listen, I know you guys must think I'm a big joker when I talk about Oscars and all. You think I wont pull it off. If only you knew what I'm brewing. I laugh at you people, though. Remain unbelievers. I know my true friends. They dont make fun of my dreams. They know it'll happen. Oh boy, people like you and Brenda give me the reason to do what I do. If I wasn't made up tougher stuff people like you would tear me down. But my pops taught me better. That's what it is.
Fiery - I said a couple of years because that is how long it took us to get everything in place for the movie we shot. Planning the logistics takes a lot of time, especially if you are going down the low budget route. That is all I meant, no more and no less
Don't know where you got the idea that I was making fun of your directing - that was not my intention, and I sincerely apologise if my words gave you that impression.
If you want me to send you a PM, I will
Sorry we were having a laugh, we thought you would only take it as a joke, I fogot you were a sensitive kinda guy. I love sensitive guys really I do
Is there some reason y'all decided to start giving this guy shit? What the hell?
Sufi could you make it earlier than 2 years I Think he is peaking early...... He's a great guy isn't he SOOOOF
Hubpages is not your personal playground to have incredibly nonsense-ridden arguments.
You start out fine, fierycj, then the minute someone tells you that you may be wrong about your post, you start attacking everyone in sight.
It's getting ridiculous.
Are you fierycj?
Your threads do seem to be turning into hate-mongering, I appreciate that you're passionate about these things, but having read through you don't seem to be welcoming debate, just agreement.
Yeah Yeah, gang up on the African. Its apartheid all over! I'm out.
He is not well he just plays with people but it gets outa hand
Your loyalty towards the OP is admirable, but misguided.
He has a habit of starting or participating in controversial threads, howling loudly that people are being racist if anyone dares disagree with him, then running away with his tail between his legs.
As he has done yet again a few posts up.
i had to laugh at this one. Tail in between my legs. You're hilarious, you should have a slot in Comedy Central, Eric. No kidding. You think a bunch of yappers in a pc forum, I repeat PC FORUM scares me? You just put me right back in a good mood, Eric. And just when I thought you could never make laugh.
What's for Lunch today Fiery or have you already eaten? Infact, do you cook? (o.k. it doesn't relate to the thread, but awaiting answer)......
I know what you're trying to do. And God bless your heart. I ate nkwobi with beef and turkey. Yes, I cook, rarer these days, though. I ate out.
Cool. What's Nwokobi? Is that like a rice/corn/potato dish to go with the beef? Can't believe I haven't heard of that dish before. (last question. lol)
not Nwokobi. Lol. NKWOBI. Its like Ugba, but richer, and meaty. Delicious, Baby.
If you read the rest of the forum, there are plenty of people who get talked to by more than one Hubpages forum poster when they're inflammatory and obviously wrong.
Don't make this about your nationality or your skin color, dude - it's not a matter of that at all. You just love to have arguments, and don't want to think that anything horrid or counter to modern culture could ever happen in your country.
I get it, I understand, but at the same time, you don't have to come out of the first post with fists flying, so to speak.
Go chill out, come back to the forums when you will be able to not argue or attack people from the onset.
This is a recent eye-witness report on "witches" being burned alive by a lynch-mob. It's in Kenya, not Nigeria.
Everybody knows BBC has a hard on for Africa. They have and always will. Its worse than CNN for pete's sake. As for the guy you quoted he's a nobody. You ever wonder why he's selling in your abroad and not on his soil? Well?
Here's the thing, anytime I wanna be a best selling author, make tons of money, you know what I'do? Its simple really, All I gotta do is sell out, and write negative stuff about my country, tell the world we eat people and stuff. Westerners eat that stuff up. And cos its my nation and all, they'll even pay me like a soccer player for it. A lot people have sold their souls. It wouldn't be the first time. Who knows, I might do the same too if I get broke, beef it up with a couple of pictures, you know, give it credibility and all. And I know just the story. I can see the headlines now - MOTHERS IN NIGERIA EAT THEIR BABIES TO HONOR GODDESS OF FERTILITY! BBC will pay me a million pounds for that bull. I'll make a ton!
People being "treated" or exorcised for being witches, burned as witches, and ritual killings are problems in some parts of Africa, and in some parts of Nigeria. If you wilfully blind yourself to the evidence of this, that's your problem. For example:
(1) "AN official inquiry into the abuse of African children branded as witches is expected to conclude that there have been at least 50 such cases over five years in London alone.
The investigation is expected to find that cases of sorcery-related abuse are now spreading outside the capital to areas such as Liverpool, Newcastle and parts of Yorkshire — although they remain confined to only a minority of Africans in Britain."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u … 679077.ece
(2) "The case of the eight-year-old Angolan girl tortured after being accused of being a witch has striking similarities with that of the murdered Victoria Climbie.
Welfare campaigners said last month that thousands of black African children were "disappearing" every year in the UK as they were shuttled between distant relatives and used either for fraudulent benefit claims or as a source of child labour.
That claim was made after police investigating the murder of a child whose torso was found in the River Thames discovered that 300 African boys had disappeared without trace from London schools in the months leading up to the boy's death."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u … 529620.ece
(3) "About 200,000 children such as Rita are taken from their homes in West Africa each year and are sold into domestic slavery, prostitution or worse, according to Unicef UK.
It is thought that some children have been procured for sacrifice in black magic rituals in the West. Anti-trafficking activists believe that this was the fate of “Adam”, the boy whose headless torso was found floating in the Thames in September 2001.
Unicef says that Nigeria is the centre of this regional child-trafficking market."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 055750.ece
(4) "A NIGERIAN man is being questioned by detectives searching for the ritual killer of a small boy whose torso was dumped in the Thames.
Police believe that the child, aged between four and seven, was smuggled into Britain from Nigeria and killed in a form of African black magic called “muti”."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u … 073754.ece
Yeah, Fiery...I've got to say that my friend from the Ivory Coast makes no bones about the fact that Africa (although he'd say it shouldn't always be considered Pan-Africanism--that this IS 'something' of a western delusion) has human rights abuses and problems.
It would be like we Americans saying we aren't having a little financial crisis here in the states.
Umm, not that I read anything about it, but given my current take on a human nature, I won;t be surprised. Nothing to do with Nigeria though, Russia or US or Sweden won't surprise me either...
Have you heard of psycho killers, say like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre? Well, most people saw it in a movie. Now that stuff is pretty common place in Western Countries. But you dont hear about it mentioned in Times, CNN, or BBC every damn time. You gotta watch it in a movie to know a thing like that ever happene. They just take isolate one incident when it has to do with a Western Country sensationize it like mad, give it a cool name like TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE and make it into a movie. But when it comes to Africa, Oh no, all the statistics start rolling in, all the wannabe-experts start pumping up, everybody wants a piece. Its every nobody's chance to prove they're worth a damn. Now, you guys dont get me at all - I never said weird things NEVER happen in my country. Who I'm I kidding! I'm the weirdest thing to ever come out there. What I'm saying is, it isn't anymore than in other countries. Humans are mad, they'll kill, they'll eat up, they claim they hear voices, they'll think they're God, all that and more. If only the other so-called statisticians would put in half of the energy they put it on studying Africa on Western Countries, I bet you even weirder stuff would turn up. No kidding.
Well actually some gruesome crimes are reported in our local news here. San Bernardino is known as the murder capital of the world for a reason.
by fierycj7 years ago
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