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Millenial reign of Christ

  1. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    The saints reign with Christ on earth for a thousand years, while Satan is bound in the pit. Is that statement scriptual?  What do you think?   I think  NOT !!

    1. Sanctus Vesania profile image60
      Sanctus Vesaniaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Attempting to form an opinion.

      ...

      ...

      ...

      Attempt failed. 

      Attempting to open folder 'Opinion'

      This program cannot be found, please install the CD 'Opinion'

      Operation overload.  Shutting down.  Bwooo-

      1. lrohner profile image85
        lrohnerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hilarious, Sanctus!!!

      2. 0
        cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        big_smile i sort of felt that way, clicking on the topic title. haha good one...

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      In Hindu philosophy we are at the end of the age of Kali yuga or the dark ages and now starts the stage of Satya yoga or age of truth which commences with a divine being sent down from heaven.
      Here the period is given as 100,000 years.

      1. fierycj profile image85
        fierycjposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Ok so Jeremi you've seen it...its not 1000 years, but 100,000 years!

      2. ElElyone profile image60
        ElElyoneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I AM 
        ע ל ע ל י ו ן

        I AM the God of Avraham, Yitzack and Ya'acov and besides me no other gods exist.

        I AM the God of the Hebrews and besides me all others are false.

        I AM the creator of heaven and earth and no other has created anything.

        Many teach many gods, none of them exist,
        I and I alone AM ע ל ע ל י ו ן

        I do not share my glory with another, I alone am ע ל ע ל י ו ן

        If you turn to me and seek me, then shall you know the truth and the truth shall set you free dear man.

        I stoop to look down upon the sky and the earth is my footstool.

        I hold all mysteries in my hand and reveal only what I will and no man can understand unless I give it to him.

        Turn therefore from you many gods who are not gods and seek my face.

        Your gods cannot deliver you, nor can they save to the uttermost.

        Only my son is salvation and not another way can be found.

        I AM  ע ל ע ל י ו ן

  2. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    attempting to hear an inteligent answer.                  Attempt  failed......   Re boot  will try again                I do wonder where some ideas come from, and examine their validity

  3. 0
    pgrundyposted 7 years ago

    Can anyone translate the question into heathen? I don't understand...

  4. Teresa McGurk profile image82
    Teresa McGurkposted 7 years ago

    This is a tricky one.  Can I phone a friend?

  5. gamergirl profile image60
    gamergirlposted 7 years ago

    I'm all out of touch..

    This is how I feel..

  6. Sanctus Vesania profile image60
    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 7 years ago

    I think he's asking if we think that the Christian saints will reign with Christ during the millennial reign, and then he tells us his answer.

    But I don't know if he wants opinions, or agreement.

  7. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    The question was asked not for the answer, but to ask  Where do we read that Jesus is going to reign on EARTH with the saints? Do we believe as we do because we have read it in scripture or because some one has told us that it is written in scripture.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That seems to be the way you guys do it.

      I am asking a question I have the answer to, will some one pleeeeeeze tell me the answer I already know is correct.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        My computer is messing up and only sending part of my reply sorry I will get er don

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Let me try this again the point is that If you say that you believe in God, then you should be able to believe what he says. You should not interpret what your master says, to mean something other than what he said. God Gave Daniel visions and then the interpretation. These visions are of the first four GREAT kingdoms upon the earth. The fourth kingdom has ten kings and after these ten another king rises up after the ten replacing three. Futurists interpret this fourth kingdom to be the Antichrist that is to come in our future. This totally changes the message that God gave to Daniel. Confusion is born. Now they gotta interpret almost everything. And the ducks still don't line up in a row.  If you can read prophesy without interpretation the ducks will line up. It will make sense. Believing it will be up to you

  8. 0
    pgrundyposted 7 years ago

    Lots of us don't believe it period.

  9. 0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    it is in the scriptures...... Christ becomes King over earth for a 1,000 years.... Satan is put into abyss and after 1,000 years released on to earth again.... Can find chapter and verse if required but may take me a while...

  10. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 7 years ago

    Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The reason for posting this question. To show how preconcieved ideas influence what we think that we are about to read. And how interpretations that were previously learned affect how we understand what we are reading.   Rev. 20 is the source of the concept of a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.    BUT.  everyone seems to pass right over, with out noticing (v.4) that states that these saints that reigh with Christ for 1000 years have been beheaded. These are dead people that are seen in heaven. John was caught up into heaven when these visons began, and is still in heaven when he sees these dead saints in heaven. They reign with Christ in heaven while Satan is bound in the pit for a 1000 years. Chapter 20 does not say that Jesus is to reign on the earth among the living for a thousand years.

      1. Make  Money profile image72
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly Jerami, we are living in that thousand year period right now.  Satan is in the bottomless pit now but will be let loose for a short time.  When Jesus returns it won't be for just 1,000 years.  I think Rev 20:1-7 needs to be posted here.


        My Bible has this as a commentary for "bound him" in verse 2.

        "2 "Bound him"... The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment."

        But the saints are not dead in heaven even though they have been beheaded here on earth. smile

  11. fierycj profile image85
    fierycjposted 7 years ago

    Of course is 1000 years. I just thought it silly to answer. I mean, really silly.

  12. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Thank you  "Make Money";  I haven't thought about the beheaded saints NOT being bound in heaven. Good point. The fact that YOU believe that we are living in the 1000 years is refreshing. I believe that we are a little past that, but this is a minor issue. I believe that we are living in the "little season" that follows his being turned loose, a season is 1/4th of a year or 13 weeks, or 118 of our years.  Satan is given a little season to gather together the kings of the earth to that great battle. Analytically speaking this opens up new horizons. Again thank you for your comment.

  13. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 7 years ago

    I'm not convinced with your mathematics. How can 2000+/- years since the life of Christ = 1000. Neither am I (even slightly) convinced that satan is right now, bound in the bottomless pit. That would mean that he is not deceiving the nations, and that he is not ruling over this world, (as the prince of the power of the air".
    Sorry. I see too many holes and inconsistencies here.
    BTW, the great tribulation must be past also then.hmm

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I fully agree with you.  Satan is not bound yet.  Also, I believe the millennial reign of Christ and the saints will indeed be on earth, for when Satan is released, he gathers the nations ON THE EARTH to surround the City of the saints and is destroyed.  He can't attack the City if it's in heaven.  The spirit of antichrist is very active in the world, and even moreso, as people are turning aside to false doctrines and twisting the scripture more and more every day.

  14. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I stated that Satan has already been turned loose and we are living in the "Little season" when Satan, the Beast and False prophet are now gathering together the kings of the earth. This would mean that Satan was bound in the bottomless pit over 1000 years ago. Probably around 880 to 900 AD, just before the world started coming out of the dark ages. There is no indication in scripture how many years before this that Satan gave power to the Beast. The beast was given 42 months. Whether this 42 months is 1260 years as many sudggest or as I believe.. approx 1650 years Satan was bound during this time frame. When Satan is released, the Beast,False Prophet and Satan are seen when the sixth vial is poured out. and the kings gather together for the battle of Armageddon. If the Universal church was the beast, I would start the count down of the 42 months around 359 because that is when the deadly head wound was healed. When Pope Liberius, after being unseated as pope and sent into exile in 365 and returning to Rome as pope in 369 AD.  When the head recovered is when the 42 months began. 1649 years after 369 would bring us to the year 2018. This is only an approx. of a week = 9.1 to 9.16 of our years. No one knows the day or hour. But maybe within a decade? by definition catholic (small c)means universal. By its own definition it was a Universal church. With a little stretch of the imagination, The Holy Roman Empire could be said to be the Holy Roman universal government.

  15. 0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    so i got it right did i???????

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      We actually were saying that Jesus reigned in HEAVEN with those who were  beheaded . Not on the earth.

  16. fishmox profile image59
    fishmoxposted 7 years ago

    Dispensationalism is sensationalism, but I don't think the guy who started it intended it to be such.  Like most anything, it will be those AFTER the original that is responsible for turning something into something the original did not intend.

    The Book of Revelation is by and large in symbolic language.  A thousand years, as many say, is a "picture" word of absolute completion.  100 x 100 = 1,000.  In the same way that forgiving your brother (not your fellow human being) 70 x 7 is simply saying to "just keep forgiving", or "be forgiving".  Think about it, nobody can err against somebody 490 times and the offended party put up with it.  Somewhere between offense 1 and offense 10 the offender will hear something from the offended and I don't care how "Christian" the offended thinks he is, or he may simply just avoid the offender, and the "fellowship" cools off.
    Trust me, I know what I'm saying, from both ends of the fence.

    So, back to topic.

    I agree that Christ is now reigning, in the hearts of His people, therefore in the midst of His people, and Satan has already been let loose a little season, beginning at the time when the gospel was corrupted from good news of a finished and POSSESSED eternal salvation to that of good news of a POSSIBLE and cooperative venture towards salvation, where the object of adoration is a FALSE CHRIST therefore an ANTICHRIST whose right to the title of Savior depends on the will of an individual who finds it hard to resist sin, much more turn to God without the help of the Holy Spirit, who by the way, only comes to His own.

    The spirit of antichrist is well within Christendom now, folks.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Nah... no sky fairies just a lot of superstitious nonsense in my view.

      1. fishmox profile image59
        fishmoxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        As Billy Joel (my favorite artist then and now) said:  You may be right.
        People are by nature superstitious.
        It is part of the makeup of a fallen humanity.
        That's why it takes God to open up the eyes of somebody to truth.
        And it takes God to keep those eyes closed.
        By Him simply doing nothing at all for the benefit of that superstition blinded sinner (there I said it...the politically incorrect word.  Wooohooo !!).

    2. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Still does not fit the timeframe. According to your hypothesis, the great tribulation would have to have passed long ago. When did that happen?
      1,000 yrs means 1,000yrs! (your maths is off too 100 x 100 = 10,000).
      His reign on earth will be physical, not as now, only in the hearts of believers.

      1. fishmox profile image59
        fishmoxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You're right.  I goofed there.
        But that's what many "scholars" say, a thousand years is symbolic for a completed time frame, which does not necessarily have to be according to our mathematics here on this time plane, since Peter says that to the Lord "a thousand years is as one day", which of course others will find a different interpretation for.
        Which is why all these discussions on millenialism, amillenialism, and so on seem so pointless.
        Why the dickens do I need to worry about whether Christ intends to reign physically or not ?
        If He will reign, He will reign, and if not, then He will not, and there's no one anybody can do about it.

        1. aka-dj profile image79
          aka-djposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I don't see it as pointless at all. Mainly because if I treat this aspect of doctrine that way, then why not another.
          If it was pointless, then why include the truth/revelation in the Bible.If we did not need to know, why mention it.You don't have to worry about it, but I believe He will reign physically. The fact that He WILL, is more important that whether or not "physically".

    3. Make  Money profile image72
      Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      John talks about antichrist 4 times in 1 John and 2 John and says that anyone that denies Jesus Christ is an antichrist.

      1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour."

      1 John 2"22 "Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son."

      1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world."

      2 John 1:7 "For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist."

      But from 2 Thessalonians 2: and other spots in the Bible we know that before the day of the Lord is to come the man of sin has to sit in the temple as if he were God.

      2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 "Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God."

      The commentary in my Bible for verse 4 "In the temple" says this "Either that of Jerusalem which some think he will rebuild; or in some Christian church, which he will pervert to his own worship: as Mahomet has done by the churches of the east."  There are plans to rebuild the third temple in Jerusalem.

      The sign of the times clearly shows the days of the antichrist (man of sin) are in the process of being set up.

      I believe where it mentions the 1260 days or 42 months or 3 and a half years or a time, and times, and half a time in the Bible it is talking about the actual amount of days or months or years of the times of tribulations.  And I believe that 1260 days will begin when the man of sin sits in the temple.

      I believe it will be 1260 actual days because in both Luke 4:25 and James 5:17 (posted below) it talks about how Elias prayed that it might not rain for three years and six months.  Elias is suppose to be one of the two witnesses that shall prophesy in Jerusalem for 1260 days clothed in sackcloth (Rev 11).  The Bible talks about this amount of time speaking of the abomination unto desolation quite a few times.

      I posted this in another thread showing the amount of times 1260 days or 42 months or 3 and a half years or a time, and times, and half a time is mentioned in the Bible.

    4. Make  Money profile image72
      Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Dispensationalism is rather a new theology that was brought about in the 19th century.

      I believe the 1,000 year period is symbolic for the time between the first and second comings of Jesus Christ.

      I like this, "A thousand years, as many say, is a "picture" word of absolute completion."

      Thanks aka-dj.

      Mike

      1. fishmox profile image59
        fishmoxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks Mike.
        I am an amillenialist.
        No thousand year literal reign.
        One general resurrection of the wicked and the just.

        But this is turning to be a REAL religion forum, and that's what it's supposed to be, a forum of ideas and beliefs.

        Not something where somebody trying to start a thread gets ridiculed and answered with pictures of cats.

  17. 0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    Jesus reigning in heaven .... but down to the earth...
      Satan is not abyssed yet..... he is walking about like a roaring lion seeking to devour people....... that is my belief, otherwise why would the world be like this....
    Blinding the mind of the unbelievers....

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It's not the un-believers who are the only problem... it is those who are certain that they alone are right... like suicide bombers, blinded by faith in something that was never said or taken out of context from the Quoran or some other religious tomb. All religionists are right about their gods, that must be why they kill each other I guess.George Bush invaded in the name of his god, and the terrorists murder in the name of their god.

  18. 0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    welll now there are some religions that dont go to war, they would choose to go to jail or even be shot dead than to fight,

    I dont believe I am right about anything.... I only say what i believe of course I could be absolutely totally wrong.....

  19. 0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    where does it say it will be physical....... i will go and get my bible to check this out

    1. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No need. He was "physically resurrected", and "will return in the same way as He left", Acts 1;11

  20. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 7 years ago

    Nice one MM.

  21. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Exactly fishmox.  We know who they are from 4 posts back. wink

  22. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    When studying scripture, which seems to be very self contradicting, I tried an experiment. Imagine that you have never read the bible. I would sudgest that you first read those verses where God was speaking. This is the foundationl truth. Then read only those verses that Jesus is speaking. If there seems to be any contradictions consider this to be caused by a misinterpretation on your part. The father and the son are not going to be contradicting each other.  Find this misinterpretation before moving on. Consider these things as undisputable fact. The next most reliable sourse should be the messages that the lords messanger angels are delivering. Again these verses must agree with the foundation truth that has been established up to this point, or there is another misinterpretation to blame. I believe that every thing that God, Jesus and the messanger angels say is absolue truth.   The apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 2:20  Know this first, that no prophesy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.  If the Lord interprets something Who are to think to interpret the thing better. We must uninterpret the interpretations man has been teaching for centuries. like a needle in a haystack. by removing the hay we will find the needle

  23. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Jerami I think a lot of us would agree with you when you say "Know this first, that no prophesy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".  But what does that have to do with 2 Peter 2:20?  2 Peter 2 is talking about "sects of perdition" like the Sodomites, and the Gomorrhites or those that followed the way of Balaam of Bosor.

    I believe I know what you are getting at but consider these three verses as well.

    During the last supper Jesus said this to His apostles showing that His church was guided by His Holy Ghost from the beginning.  John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you."

    2 Thessalonians 2:14 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle."  This verse is 2 Thessalonians 2:15 in the King James Bible.

    Matthew 16:18 "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

    Also note how many times it says we are to be one body in Christ in the Bible.  It says it quite a few times.  And the body of Christ quite often refers to His followers or His church.

    God bless
    Mike

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Mike; Ya caught me!  2nd Perer 1:20  Finger slipped and I didn't proof read. gettin old, forgetful and been busy...Don't get much free time to get on here.. Have had my mind all tied up all day, figureing out the one and only issue that is the pivot point between pretorict -historist = me,   and tha futurist= ?. Been a long day.  . The Lord did build his church on the rock. I think that the defination of .... THE CHURCH should = "Jesus said". and don't interpret it !  God bless ya too.

  24. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Oh I see now Jerami, gotcha.  Thanks for the blessing.

  25. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I believe that the power of Satan is alive in the world today because he has been loosed after the 1000 years in the pit, and the battle of Armageddon is right around the corner.

    1. Make  Money profile image72
      Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Jerami don't forget that the man of sin from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 has to be revealed first.  I believe this will start the 42 months of tribulations.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        2nd Thessalonians was written around 51 or 52 AD. Paul was not quoting Jesus. Matthew and Luke was. Matt. 24:15 and Luke 13:14 said that the abomination of desolation will be set "where it ought not"and "in the holy place). My concordance is packed away but I would be surprised if this word 3485 (that Paul used)could or should have been translated in similar fashion. I believe that when Hadrian set up two statues on the grounds where Solomons temple once stood, one of his god Jupiter and one of himself (135)I believe that this was the abomination of desolation that Jesus spoke of. And when Hadrian evacuated the city selling them into slavery through out the rest of the Roman Empire, this fulfilled the scattering of the holy people. When the times of the Gentiles began.   thanks for the discussion

        1. Make  Money profile image72
          Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah interesting discussion Jerami.  But if you read further on in 2 Thessalonians 2 it clearly shows that Jesus will do away with the man of sin "with the spirit of his mouth" and "the brightness of his coming" when He returns.  So it is clearly talking about end times.

          2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 "6 And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, 9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, 10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:"

          You do realize that there are plans to rebuild Solomon's temple, don't you?

  26. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I will quote the professor rather than the student. 
    Matthew C 23 and C 24 are actually one conversation that began in the temple and then moved to the temple mount. In C 23 Jesus is really blasting the Pharisees and scribes. Jesus said WOE unto you 8 times, and called them fools twice and called them serpents and vipers a couple of times.  The rest of the time he was saying bad things about them.  Jesus talked about how their fathers had killed the prophets.  ...   THAT UPON YOU SHALL COME COME ALL THE RIGHOUS BLOOD SHED UPON THE EARTH, FROM THE  BLOOD OF ABLE UNTO THE BLOOD OF ZACHARIAS ... WHO YE SLEW BETWEEN THE TEMPLE AND THE ALTER. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS generation. AND THEN Jesus walks over to the mount of olives and the four disciples ask Jesus when was those things going to happen? and what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world.  This is now a private conversation with the four disciples when Jesus repeatedly says when YOU see...  verse 30 Jesus says And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven ....and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven coming with power and glory.  Verily I say unto you this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled, but the hour and day knoweth no man...   I am not going to let anything that one of his students say, change the meaning of what the teacher said. I believe the words written in red letters have MUCH more authority than any of the black words. I will believe what the disciples say as long as they do not contradict the red words. This is why I believe that the second coming came in the first century. And the end of days that they were talking about was the end days for that Hebrew Nation that came to an end around 138 AD. And if anyone can pretend to believe this when reading Daniel and Revelation, then all of the pieces of the puzzle will seem to fit rather nicely. When God, Jesus or a messenger is being quoted, I am going to try to understand it without personal interpretation.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Since the Bible was written about all these things that did happen and are to happen, are you implying no one recorded the return of Christ and His reign on earth?  When He comes, the saints will also be resurrected to reign with Him.  Note what Paul says in 2 Tim 2:18 "men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some."...just some critical thought for you.

  27. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Oh man Jerami, Matthew chapter 24 is clearly talking about the end times when He will come again.  In verse 2 when Jesus says "there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone" he is foretelling of the destruction of Solomon's temple (actually it was the second temple, Herod's temple).

    But from verse 3 when the apostles ask "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world?" Jesus is clearly talking about the end times through the rest of Matthew chapter 24.

    In verse 14 and 15 Jesus is telling the same story that Paul later told to the Thessalonians.  "14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. 15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand."  Paul did not contradict Jesus in 2 Thessalonians 2, he confirmed what Jesus previously said.

    The Gospel had not been preached in the whole world and Jesus had not returned yet in the first century AD.

    Jesus Christ did not just come for the salvation of the Jews in the first century, He came for the salvation of the whole world, for them that believe in Him.

    Matthew chapter 24 talks about "wars and rumours of wars", "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places" and "these are the beginnings of sorrows" which we are seeing right now.

    Matthew chapter 24 also says "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake.  And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.  And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold."  We are seeing Christians being persecuted for His name sake already in some countries but it will get much worse.  And we are seeing many false prophets.  And we are seeing charity grow cold.

    Jesus said for His name sake, but the destruction of the temple and the scattering of the Jews out of Palestine in the first century AD by the Romans was not for Jesus' name sake because those Jews did not even believe in Jesus.  The Jews that became Christians were not looking for a Messiah that would head an earthly army.  Aside from the first 2 verses the entire chapter of Matthew 24 is talking about the end times.

    Back to Matthew 23, in the last verse Jesus says to the scribes and Pharisees "For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."  This is also prophesied in chapter 4 of Malichi where it says in the end days God will send Elijah (Elias), where he shall come for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ.  Also in Revelation chapter 11 we see that God will send His two witnesses (most likely Henoch and Elias) to Jerusalem during the 42 months of tribulations to prophesy clothed in sackcloth for the conversion of the Jews, until the witnesses are killed 3 and a half days before the day of judgment.  The days of Elias is also mentioned in the Epistle of Paul to the Romans, chapters 9, 10 and 11 where Paul is lamenting for his brethren the Jews that did not accept Jesus Christ.

    In Matthew 23 when Jesus says "these things shall come upon this generation" when talking to the scribes and Pharisees Jesus is talking about their generation.  But in Matthew 24 when Jesus says "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done" Jesus is talking about our generation because we are already seeing the "beginnings of sorrows".

  28. Sanctus Vesania profile image60
    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 7 years ago

    All this talk about how Jesus is already here...what a bunch of BS!  If he's here then why is the world still being run by the Satanic government?  Why is there still famine, death, plague, and war?

    Me logically thinks that Christ is not here (physically) on earth now.

  29. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I want someone to show me where it says that those that reigns with Christ for 1000 years do so on the earth. These that are discussed in Rev 20 are with Jesus "IN HEAVEN",  IT DOES NOT SAY THAT THEY COME DOWN TO THE EARTH!!!   2nd Tim. 2:18 shows that many if not most of the Christians were expecting Jesus to return in that Generation. Why do we suppose that is? Maybe because Jesus said that he would?  Timothy died in 66 so it would have to have been around 66 that those people said that Jesus had already come. Well at that time he had not come yet, He did not come until around 94. When he did come John recorded it in a book. It is written in this book that God gave a Revelation to Jesus and sent him to go and give it to his servants. That is written in the plural form. God sent Jesus to his servantssss.    The Lord did indead tell Malachi that he would send Elijah before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. This was written before 433 BC. and in Matt. 17 v 11 & 12 Jesus says "Elias truly shall come and restore all things". "But I say unto you that Elias is come already, and they knew him not..." The disciples understood that Jesus was talking about John the Babtist. Until a few hundred years ago these books were not divided into Chapters and verses. Chapter 23 and 24 was one conversation that moved from the temple to the mountain. I do not see a dividing point in this conversation to say that 23 is talking about that generation then and 24 is talking about another generation 2000 years later. I believe that a person needs only to read the ten commandments and all of the words written in the bible that are written in red. Jesus is all we need.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Rev 20:7-9 "And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the EARTH, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.  And they came up on the broad plain of the EARTH and surrounded the camp of the SAINTS and the BELOVED CITY, and fire came down FROM heaven and evoured them."  If the thousand-year reign is in heaven, Satan would not need to be bound on earth, for he is on earth (was already cast down to earth), and is not in heaven.

      So Jerami, what do you suppose is next?

      1. Make  Money profile image72
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Actually I was going to answer this a different way but also by using Rev 20.  I hope you don't mind Judah's Daughter.

        Jerami you will not find in the Bible anything about "those that reigns with Christ for 1000 years do so on the earth."  You won't find it because like Judah's Daughter and yourself said they are reigning with Christ right now in heaven.  But Satan is in the bottomless pit and he will be shut up there for the same amount of time that the saints reign in heaven with Christ, a thousand symbolic years, from Christ's death and resurrection until just before His second coming.  Satan will be let loose for a short time before Jesus returns.  This can be found in Rev. 20:1-5.

        Rev. 20:1-5 "1 And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations, till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time. 4 And I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

        But the saints will be coming down out of heaven with Jesus when He returns.

        Rev. 14:1-5 "1 And I beheld, and lo a lamb stood upon mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty-four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the noise of many waters, and as the voice of great thunder; and the voice which I heard, was as the voice of harpers, harping on their harps. 3 And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth. 4 These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb: 5 And in their mouth there was found no lie; for they are without spot before the throne of God."

        And there will be a new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven when Jesus returns too.

        Rev. 3:12 "He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name."

        And there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

        Rev. 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone, and the sea is now no more."

        It's clear satan's minions are busy setting up the system of the antichrist with what we see in the news these days.  They must know there time is numbered.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Peace be unto you; Make Money, but I do not believe the reign of Christ and the saints for that thousand years is in heaven, for Satan would not need to be bound on earth if he were no threat to the kingdom of God (the saints and the holy city).  He is loosed afterwards and gathers the nations of EARTH against the saints and the holy city, and is destroyed by fire FROM heaven.  The New Heaven and New Earth will be manifest after this is completed.  I hope this is more clear, as to my personal viewpoint of what I read in Rev 20:7-9.

          1. Make  Money profile image72
            Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you, peace be upon you too Judah's Daughter.  But sin cannot live in heaven, thus satan cannot live in heaven.  Satan, the old serpent was the serpent that deceived Adam and Eve.  So satan and the other bad angels were cast out of heaven before Eve took the first bite of that apple.

            Rev. 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."

            I don't know where the bottomless pit, where satan is bound is, could be on earth somewhere but there was a seal put on it so he wouldn't be able to get out until the short time just before Jesus returns.  As I mentioned Satan was bound with Jesus' death and resurrection.  Satan is a threat to God's people on earth, that's why he was bound. 

            Also Judah's Daughter I realized it wasn't fully explained so I added some more to my previous post.

            Mike

            1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
              Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, sin cannot live in heaven.  What I see is that the millennial reign will be on earth with Satan bound, which brings peace to the nations.  When Satan is loosed, he will then deceive many of the nations to war against the saints and the holy city on earth.  That's what I perceive.  As I said, there is no need to bind Satan, if the millennial reign is in heaven, for he would be no threat in heaven at all.  Because the millenial reign appears to be on earth, Satan must be bound in order to bring that peace upon the earth.  Does that explain a little more what I'm thinking?  Again, it's only my thinking ~ and I love you in the love of our Lord, brother :-)  Thank you for your grace.

              1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
                Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this
  30. 60
    badcompany99posted 7 years ago

    A cold Guinness !

  31. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    This is why we have to have a chronological sequence as to when these things are happening. The 62 weeks in Daniel gives us a time comparison. 62 weeks began around 538 BC.and ended when Jesus was killed. Approx. 538 years is the same as 62 weeks so 1 week = approx. 9.3 of our years. 42 months is approx. 1643 years.  Just pretend for a few minutes that this is acceptable. According to scripture Messiah the prince comes 7 weeks after Jesus is killed. This would be around 94 AD.  The woman with 12 stars (The Hebrew Nation) is carried into the wilderness This happened in 138   The children of Daniels people are redeemed from among man At this time that Hadrian dies (138)  some length of time passes when John sees the beast rise up out of the sea.   Satan gives this beast power. Some time after this  the beast is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years. At this same time The first resurrection happens. The believers reign in heaven with Christ. At the end of the 1000 years Satan is loosed for a little season. A season is 13 weeks or approx. 119 years. At the end of this 119 years the Battle of Armageddon will occur. If we are now watching the kings gathering in preparation of Armageddon. It this last statement is true. The first resurrection must have happened (according to scripture) almost 1119 years ago.

  32. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    I really do not know where you are getting all that Jerami.  Jesus is the Messiah.

    Judah's Daughter dispensationalism messes with a lot of people's heads when it comes to the 1,000 year period.  By following what you said Jesus would have to come 3 times.  But it never says that in the Bible.  Satan is a threat to God's people on earth, that's why he was bound.  When Jesus comes again He will kill satan for good and He will stay forever.  On page 2 of this thread fishmox says "Dispensationalism is sensationalism".  He is right.  Dispensationalism is rather a new theology that was brought about in the 19th century.

    The bottom line of what I am trying to say is to not be deceived when the man of sin is revealed.  Don't allow your thinking that you may be raptured before the tribulation or dispensationalism let you be deceived by the man of sin.  I believe we are closer to that time when the man of sin is revealed than a lot of people believe.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      All we have to do is go to Rev 19:11-end of chapter, which is the coming of Christ on the white horse with His armies to fight the battle at Har-Magedon.  Rev 20:1-4 is when Satan is bound for 1,000 years and Christ sets up the millennial reign (verses 5-6).  Verses 7-10 is when Satan will be released to deceive the nations on earth and surrounds the saints and the holy city, gets devoured by fire from heaven, and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

      Call it dispensationalism if you like, but anyone can read the exact sequence of events right there in Chapter 19:11-Chapter 20:10.  Right in a row.  Simple.  Amen.

      Jesus will come to rapture His church, which is in the like manner as He left, per the angels statement in Acts 1:11.  He didn't leave on a white horse with armies.  I have a hub called "In the Air-On the Earth" that goes into more theological discussion on this matter.  God bless you.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree that Chapter 19 is talking about the battle of Armageddon for verse 18 states that ALL flesh is dead all men small and great free and bond,rich and poor. But Chapter 20 is talking about the first recurrection and after 1000 years and a little season the Battle of armageddon comes to fulfillment. Chapter 14 is talking about the earth being reaped for the harest is ripe. This is the first recurrection. For in verse 13 it is said that from hense forth ( from now on) when a person dies in the Lord they rest from their labors and their works do follow them. From now on when a true christian dies they go to be with the Lord. This is the first reccurection as is Chapter 20.  Putting all of this in some kind of chronoligical order is of the most importance.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I know this thread is about the millennial reign of Christ, but I see that when the two witnesses are killed and then brought back to life and ascend into the heavens, lightning, thunder, an earthquake and hailstorm fall upon that City in Rev 11.  In verse 18-19 we see the saints being rewarded and the earth being judged (perhaps the rapture has just taken place)...because, the "thief in the night" return of Christ (I believe to be the rapture) happens at the same time, if you line up the events shown in Chapter 16:15-18.  Just after the "thief in the night" return in verse 15, we see lightning, thunder, an earthquake and hailstorm fall.  The following chapters have to do with the fall of Babylon.  Just some insight from my studies you might find interesting.

  33. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I spent half an hour writing a reply and lost it. I don't know what to say except that we should imagine that Scripture is a 10,000 piece puzzle. Satan does not want us to put all of the pieces together so he mixes 20,000 pieces of three other puzzles into the mix. We will never figure it out. We will never put the original 10,000 pieces together. BUT... Thank God for making the "boundary" pieces in red letters, And thank God for Gabriel and his instructions. Jesus is the word of God. Thank God that they are written in red. They are easy to see if we can focus on them. And this is the only truth that I will bet my live on.

  34. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    When the two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem, this is very shortly after the 42 months that the beast that rises up out of the sea is given to blaspheme the Lord. The end of the 42 months that these witnesses are given to prophesy are finished. The lightning and thunder is the sounding of the seventh trumpet and the pouring out of the seventh vial. This is the end. A little season after the 1000 yers that the saints reign with christ. Scripture never says that the 1000 years is the end of their reign.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Babylon is destroyed in Chapter 18, not the whole world.  The earth mourns to see her fall.  The time of judgment will not yet be over.  Jesus returns to fight the battle of Har-Magedon in Chapter 19 and establish the 1,000-year reign (Satan then bound).  Satan is not released again until Chapter 20.  After he's destroyed (and his armies) and thrown into the Lake of Fire, the New Heaven and New Earth are manifested in Chapter 21 for all eternity.

      Because Revelation is written in sequence of seals, trumpets, thunders, woes and bowls, we can assume these events are also chronological.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Chapter 18 is describing the fall of Mystery Babylon as described in Chapter 17:12 that the 10 kings who give their power to satan for one hour. and they turn on that great city that sits on seven mountains of hills that rules the earth.These ten kings burn her (that city) and eat her flesh.  And yes this is right before the great battle of Armageddon. but the 1000 year reign of Christ began a 1000 years and a little season before this.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know if you read the sequence in Revelation, but the millennial reign happens AFTER the battle of Har-Magedon.  I cannot see anything other than this.  There is no scripture that states the millennial reign is prior to the fall of Babylon, which is followed by the battle of Har-Magedon.  That would not align ~~ peace be unto you.

  35. 0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    Um.....WOW.

    Everything seems like it is printed in 6 point type or something. (For non-graphic designers, that is really, really tiny illegible type.)

  36. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    on my screen is is set on 12 and I'm an old man and half blind If it is too small on my acount I don't know what to do? looks big on my screen

  37. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Sorry that I did not answer the question about the chronology of the seals, trumpets and vials. the answer is Yes, they are established in chronological order as is all of scripture. The seals were all opened beginning in the year of Crucifixion and finished in 138 The rest are also chronological spanning through the ages.

  38. Sanctus Vesania profile image60
    Sanctus Vesaniaposted 7 years ago

    seven churches, seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven bowls.  Combine them and you'll see that they match up.  The seven seals, trumpets, and plagues correspond to one of the seven churches.

    Is it chronological?  That depends if you believe that the seven churches represent the church throughout history, with this age being the final church.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I pray you are right ~ in His love, Sanctus.  I pray His love upon you.

  39. lionswhelp profile image82
    lionswhelpposted 7 years ago

    Try, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18> this is the first heaven mentioned. There aretwo others the Universe and the Third heaven where God the Father is at the new Jerusalem, Revelation 21; Zechariah 14:4-5 and Daniel 7:25-28, Revelation 22:17, Isaiah 66:15-23 return of the Tribes to Israel is not up in heaven but on the earth which will be purified before the New Jerusalem comes down from God, 2 Peter3:2-18. Ezekiel 36:22-38> this is the remnant of the Tribes spoken in Romans 9:27; 11:22-27, Speaks about all Israel. Ezekiel 37 also shows this happening here on the earth when the Tribes of the House of Israel will be united with the House of Judah and Christ will put Kind David under him over the United Tribes of Israel. This happens here on earth not up in heaven. Revelation 19: shows Christ coming to save His Saints and Israel and continues into Revelation 20 where the saints are given rulership here on the earth, Revelation 5:10.

    Some of the Seventh Day Adventist believe they will be in heaven for 1,000 years but when I asked them to explain the above verses from both OT and NT they never have. I'm still waiting? some get it and some do not but be sure Christ will come back here and rule for eternity with our heavenly Father and all the saints, Revelation 22:12-21.

    The Lionswhelp

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This is very good.  Praise the Lord!

  40. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    How are you doing Lionswhelp.  Long time, no see.  I see that you have been asking the right questions.

    That is an excellent bunch of verses that you posted.  Everyone should read them.  I just listened to them all from the Douay-Rheims Bible as I was following them with the King James Bible.  It says the same in both Bibles.

    You may remember the song called Dry Bones which is about the resurrection of the dry bones from Ezekiel 37.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVoPG9HtYF8

    Yes the Spirit and the bride say: Come.

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you as well.
    Mike

  41. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Rev 20 clearly states that Satan is bound for 1000 years and those that were beheaded reign with Christ for 1000 years And after the 1000 years Satan is released for a little season to gather together the kings to the great battle of the Lord. From the time that the millennial reign of Christ begins, a 1000 years and a little season passes and then Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That's correct, but this is not the battle of Har-Magedon.  It states that Satan and the nations (pagan) surround the saints and the Holy City and they are devoured by fire from heaven.  This is not the same battle...but the end of the world prefacing the New Heaven and New earth.  Amen ~ God bless you :-)

      1. Make  Money profile image72
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This is the commentary for "Bound him" in Rev. 20 from the Bible that I use.

        2 "Bound him"... The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment."

        Rev. 20:6 speaks of the first and second resurrection or second death.  The first resurrection is of the soul, the second of the body.

        Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years."

        Rev. 20:14, Rev. 2:11 and Rev. 21:8 also speak of the second death.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          In my studies, the first resurrection is that of the saints that rule with Christ for the millennial reign (why they are blessed and the second death has no power over them).  The second resurrection is after the thousand year reign and is that of the unbelievers who immediately face the judgment seat of Christ and if their names are not written in the Lamb's Book of life (which they wouldn't be), they are also cast into the Lake of Fire (the second death).  The second resurrection and second death are linked together.  That's what I read anyhow ~~ Reference Rev 20:4-5 for this exact statement.

        2. someonewhoknows profile image28
          someonewhoknowsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I have to disagree with you about the first and second deaths To me the the first death is the death of the body and the second death is the death of the soul.

      2. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It seems to me that Chapter 16 discusses the battle of Armageddon. The battle of Armageddon happens after the sixth vial is poured out(16:12). . The beast and false prophet are still here. The battle spoken of in Chapter 19, the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire.  So 16 must have happened before the battle in C 19.      in 16:17 the seventh vial is poured out and a voice came out of heaven saying it is DONE! And every island fled away. Chapters 16 and 19 must be talking about the same battle.19:7  The marriage supper of the Lamb has come and his wife hath made herself ready(19:7).  In verse 19:18 the birds are invited to come and eat the flesh of ALL MEN 19 and 16 have to be the same battle.  16:14 Satan,the  Beast & False prophet gather together the kings of the earth for the great battle of Armageddon. . 20:8 after the 1000 years are finished Satan is released to deceive the nations and gather them together for battle. 16, 19 and 20 must all be talking about the same battle. The seventh vial is poured out in C. 16. There is no mention of the seventh trumpet except for in chapter 11:15 after the two witnesses are killed after the 1260 days are finished that they shall prophesy. By disassembling these four chapters and reassembling them, developing a chronological order we see that the three chapters describing these battles occur when the seventh trumpet is sounded and the seventh vial is poured out. That is the way I see it.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Chapter 16 is the fall of Babylon, not the battle of Har-Magedon.  The beast and false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of the battle of Har-Magedon, when Satan is bound (Rev 19:20 thru 20:1-3).  Satan is released after the thousand years (Rev 20:7-10).  This is when he and his armies are devoured, thrown into the Lake of Fire, and at the same time, the second resurrection happens starting in verse 11-15 where the unbelievers are also cast into the Lake of Fire.  The new heaven and earth come to fruition in Chapter 21.  I hope you will read this for yourself to be confirmed.  Amen.

  42. Make  Money profile image72
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Me too.  All the same, the battle of Armageddon.  Or the second coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hay Mike I think that we agree on more that we know. The second coming is the bigest diffrence. We need to define what we are calling the second coming!!!  Depending upon our defination of 2nd coming I think that there has been at least three.

      1. Make  Money profile image72
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah we are all pretty close.

        First I believe the man of sin has to be revealed which starts the 42 months of tribulations, he puts an end to the daily Sacrifice.  The man of sin is not satan but the antichrist or false prophet, an actual person.  Then 3 and a half days after the two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem at the end of the 42 month period then comes the second coming of Jesus Christ.

        I believe the second coming takes in all of these; the battle of Armageddon, Jesus does away with satan for good, judgment day, the resurrection of the dead, the righteous that are still alive meet Jesus in the sky, those that don't recognize Jesus don't, a new heaven and earth, then the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven.  Whether this all happens in one day or not I still consider this the second coming of Jesus Christ.

        Because it mentions that satan is bound in Rev. 20, the second last chapter in the last book of the Bible I can see why it's a little difficult to understand that satan was bound in the bottomless pit at the time of the passion of Jesus Christ on the cross.  But satan won't be bound when Jesus returns because Jesus will be returning for good and satan will be put away with.

        Jerami I noticed that you mentioned 2 Peter 1:20 "Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation."  Peter is saying that the church is guided by the Holy Ghost as we see in the next verse 2 Peter 1:21 "For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost."  This goes hand in hand with 2 Thessalonians 2:14 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle."

  43. lionswhelp profile image82
    lionswhelpposted 7 years ago

    Hello Mike,

    I'm still here and I see that you are too, great. I have been having fun with a bunch of new hubs. Not much time to get back to the forums. However, I was browsing around and saw this Hub and decided to add my two cents. Nice Hub, no Gnostic ladies here so far that like the Jewish Kalaba. I see you are still trying the spirits of the hubbers.

    The lionswhelp

    1. Make  Money profile image72
      Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah we've been allowed to have a few pretty good discussions lately. smile

  44. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    The battle described in chapter is the battle of Armageddon. Definitely because it says so in 16:16!!!!  and 16:12 the 6th. vial is poured out and the dragon(Satan) and the beast and the false prophet are seen in the river bed, 3 frogs (evil spirits) come out of each of their mouths to gather the kings together for the battle of that great day of the Lord they are gathered at Armageddon (16:16  v.7 the seventh vial is poured out and then an angel says .... "IT  IS  DONE"...
    Chapter 19:7 FOR  THE  MARRAGE  OF  THE  LAMB  IS  COME!!     19: 17 & 19  the birds of the air are invited to the supper.  They eat the flesh of ALL  MEN.  V19  The beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire.  These two chapters have to be the same battle.  In C 16 the beast and false prophet are both still alive so 16  has to be before this battle 19   or they are the same! 16:16 says that it is Armageddon.  In C 16 the last judgment is poured out and the angel said IT  IS  DONE.  Therefore The battle mentioned in C 20 has to be the same as both c16 and 18 for the dragon, beast and false prophet gathers the  kings together.  20:9 fire came down from God.. 16:17  the 7th vial was poured out into the air,  "It is done."  The 7th trumpet and 7th vial is poured out almost simultaneously.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I still think that when the Lord says, "IT IS DONE" it is that He has raptured His church and His wrath is poured out from that point on until the battle of Har-Margedon.  Regardless, we have yet to see all this come to pass ~ our Lord knows exactly how it is going to happen; we can only read and do our best to understand.

  45. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    The powers of interpretation has been at work for ever. The powers of interpretation of the book of Revelation have been growing ever since it was written. (for over 1900 years) The book of revelation predicts this. Rev 12:15 & 16  A flood came out of the dragons mouth and the earth swallowed it up.  The devil lied a whole bunch and the earth ate it up. When our brains are full of interpretations as to what scripture says, we can not see what is right in front of us. When we already know what we are about to read we usually do not see what is actually written.  For almost ten years I have been exclusively  attempting to deprogram my mind. Uninterpretating my mind. I'm still not finished. Satan has been programing our minds with a flood of interpretations for over 1900 years . 2nd Peter 1:20  warned us about this. The only way that we can realy understand scripture is to uninterpret our minds. Start our learning process by reading only the red words. Jesus said it. His students tried to repeat it. They may have unintentionally added a little of interpretation of their own?? They may have embellished a little bit from time o time?? Maybe they didn't. But the point is read the words written in red

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If all we needed was written in red, we wouldn't have had any other books of the Bible.  It is the whole that brings understanding, as much as we are even capable, considering we only use 10% of our God-given brains.  I suggest you read the book of Revelation from cover to cover; it is fascinating and does put things in order, except for a couple of "summary" chapters that tell what is to come, then the details follow.  Reading the entire book of Revelation is a good foundation, then to go back and compare with everything that was said by Jesus and the prophets of old.  I personally don't read on different people's interpretations that have had so long to think about it that it becomes more complicated than it should be...however, God does continue to enlighten me a little here and a little there, for His Word is always at work in us, bringing us more understanding smile

  46. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I truly do not mean to be crude. This was the seventh and last judgment to be poured out.  If the war is over there is no reason to evacuate the town.

  47. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I have read the bible from cover to cover severald times and the book of Revelation a hundred times. with the help of the Lord I have been uninterpretating my mind for almost ten years.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well, I pray that I become like you, for if I need to "uninterpret", I trust He will do this for me, too.  I think it's awesome that you have such a love for the Word!  I'm certain He has mightier works yet to do in you, Jerami!  Praise the Lord ~ I am yet a work in progress and desire to know more and more and MORE!!!  I have only been digging into the Word for a few months, so I am way behind...He is faithful ~~ God bless you so much :-)

      minutes later,as I ponder on the Lord....

      But, I continue to "think"...what is it that makes us doubt our interpretation we received from the beginning?  Is it the multitude of interpretations we subject ourselves to?  For me, this only causes me more confusion and doubt.  I would say to you, trust what the Holy Spirit interprets in you, and don't be swayed by too many teachers....even me, yes!!  When it is of Him, He will confirm it!!  He loves us so much!

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This is why I think that we should start all over attempting to disregard all interpretations, read the words written in red. This should be the NEW foundation of a new and clean foundation for us to rebuild a belief system. Jesus is the teacher. The disciples were doing the best that they could to teach the words that Jesus taught. If our interpretation of what we think the disciples were saying contradicts the words written in red. Then we should find the our misinterpretation of what we think that the disciple said. Jesus is the Word, the light and truth. The disciple's was repeating to others what they think that Jesus was teaching. It is impossible for any human to do that with absolute perfection, especially when it has to be translated into another language. If we can Remember that. Read the red words and build on them, we will be doing our best and then the Lord will do the rest.

  48. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 7 years ago

    When I last read the New Testament, Jesus, didn't strike me as the kind of man who would want to reign over anyone. The humility of his life is striking.

    Using the bible to gain some insight into oneself based on a humble honesty is always going to help.

    Believing that you as an individual have the power to reinvent an understanding of the bible is a few steps away from humility.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      There's life in the Word, and it does indeed break us in our flesh.  It's what the Spirit does in us simply by reading and praying that is humbling.  None of us can claim to "know" anything as fact, except that Jesus died for us and we must be broken with Him and yet trust in His love.  Truly, to be great in God's kingdom is to be the servant of all, He says.  Amen.

    2. ElElyone profile image60
      ElElyoneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I AM ע ל ע ל י ו ן

      My dear man:

      My son IS A KING and does rule everything, nothing that is has come into being without him, nothing has been made without his hand.

      He rules and has all authority, all power, all wisdom, dominion, understanding, knowledge and all might.

      He came as king of our people and said so on the earth where I sent him.

      He did my will at all times and I gave him all that is ours and all that is mine. He obeyed my every word and was found worthy to receive it all.

      He is a very, very, very humble king, a king none the less. Kings are rulers and he rules all things both visible and invisible. Nothing escapes our notice and none can stay his hand.

      He is my son in whom I am well pleased. Listen to him.

      He came the first time for a purpose and fulfilled it perfectly. he commanded when he spoke and nothing could resist him. Not demons, not waves, not the dead, not a tree, not the people and not satan the accuser.

      He spoke with authority and none could comprehend him, those who tried were confounded and gave up talking to him because of his wisdom.

      He is the king of all kings and lord of all lords, the commander of the universe. Worthy of all worship and adoration.

      To say that he did not appear to be a ruler is to not understand him. He is lord of all, meek, humble and lowly. he does not rule like men. Yet he has all authority and none can stand in his glorious presence.

      His sits at my right hand and rules with me over all creation.

      He loves you and cares for you and wants to know you more than you can imagine.

      When he returns he will not be as he was before, this time he shall display all of his power and destroy those who resist him.

      He is the king of all and does my will.

      I AM  ע ל ע ל י ו ן

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Even if you were; and I'm not saying either way, Even if you were a prophet from God will they listen unless you delivered a message that they want to hear. I have thought about it.  God would not send a prophet unless we needed to receive it. If we needed to receive it , that in its self proved that we do not want to hear it. Probably going to shoot ya with a BB gun at the least. Life is an oxymoron. The only way we can win a war is to refuse to enter into it. Those that try to save their life looses it etc. and on and on.  God needs to send a prophet that agrees with us don't ya think.  You will have more listeners if you would do that. But then what have ya done??????

        1. ElElyone profile image60
          ElElyoneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Please answer all questions as I have replied line by line smile

  49. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    simply put I believe that Paul is saying what he is saying, no more or less than what he is saying.  in 2 Thess. 2:15 Paul is saying to those people that he is  writing to, that they should hold on to the message that he had been teaching them both in person and by letter.

  50. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Rev.  Chapter 16:16 says that this is talking about the battle of Armageddon. and v 13 states that the beast and false prophet are involved in it. And after the battle spoken of in chapter 19 the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire. These two battles have to both be talking about the battle of Armageddon. And there is also no doubt that the battle spoken of in Chapter 20 is after the 1000 year reign of Christ. And after the 1000 years that Satan is bound and is turned loose for a little season. In Chapter 16 the 6th and 7th (final) trumpets are sounded. These are facts. Analytically speaking all three of these battles happen after the 1000 years and a season has passed.   Here is the question. What is supposed to happen that brings about the millennial reign and first resurrection. What is supposed to have happend before those that were beheaded are seen in heaven with Christ???  Before the first Resurrection. I want you to analyze these facts and figure out a logical analytical answer, with some kind of chronological order.   I will stay out of it. If you want my opinion, I will express it in a couple of days. And if you don't I will not. Even if you do not discuss it here on this thread please think about it to and for yourselves.

    1. Make  Money profile image72
      Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly.  Cool, so we see that the 1,000 years that satan has been bound is before these three instances of battles or a battle.  And I think we recognize the three instance of a battle as the same battle, the battle of Armageddon.  Don't we?


      It's already happen.  Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and resurrection.  This opened the graves of the saints.

      Matthew 27:52 "And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose, 53 And coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city, and appeared to many."

      Jesus' death and resurrection actually opened the gates of heaven.

      So these saints were from the 12 tribes like it says Rev 7 and Rev. 21:12.

      I believe the full 144,000 saints were these saints plus the martyrs and saints throughout Christian history plus if the full number isn't reached by now there may be some coming from the tribulation.


      Again Jesus' death and resurrection.


      These same saints that reign in heaven with Christ will also reign on earth with Jesus Christ after the second coming.  The 1,000 years that satan is bound in the bottomless pit is the same symbolic 1,000 years that the saints reign in heaven with Christ (the Millenial reign of Christ), the time of the New Testament from Jesus' death and resurrection.

      1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
        Judah's Daughterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Are you saying the first resurrection already happened, prophesied at the beginning of the millennial reign of Christ at the time He rose from the dead and others were raised, too?  That cannot be, for Paul tells Timothy in 2 Tim 2:18 the following: "They have abandoned the truth by claiming that the resurrection has already taken place, and so they destroy the faith of others."  I do not see another resurrection like this having happened since in the Word; therefore, I do not believe this has taken place yet.

        1. Make  Money profile image72
          Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The full resurrection hasn't taken place.  This is the resurrection of the souls of the saints that reign with Christ in heaven during the symbolic 1,000 years from Jesus' resurrection until now.  The resurrection of the body will happen at judgment day.  Okay I'm gone now.

          God bless
          Mike

 
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