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Why?

  1. profile image0
    ellie1142545posted 7 years ago

    Why, when a Christian asks a forum question, the non-believers take over the thread to the point that the person who opened the thread leaves it?

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
      Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I enjoy reading the posts from true believers of any religion, especially those who are trying to start a dialogue rather than convert people with different (or no) beliefs.  Many of the threads started by Christians and other religionists are ridiculous assertions of "the one true faith" superior and unassailable, that I think are responded to appropriately, (with ridicule).

      How did you become a Christian?  Was there one spectacular moment in your life.  Is it simply because you were raised as one?  I find discussions of these topics to be very interesting and would like to discuss them with you.

      1. profile image0
        ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Wow...Good questions....I became a Christian in 1970.....No I wasn't raised as a Christian....Far from it.....There was a moment in my life, that is not what I would call spectacular, but it is the reason why I became one...I was married in August 1970....Just before my 25th birthday, the guy I married took a walk, with all the money we had, left me alone with one child (from a previous relationship), and pregnant with his....His parents called me one day, and asked if I'd like to go to Church...Why not?  So I went....The Preacher decided to do a Sermon on Salvation, and at the end of the sermon, I knew that that was what I wanted....

        I could tell you the rest of the story, about my ex., but it's not a very good one....So I don't talk about him, period.....Thanks for asking....Peace!!

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Your experience sounds similar to others I have heard.  You found yourself in a terrible situation; probably wondering how you got there among other questions.  Comforting answers to your questions, (especially, "what do I want?) were provided and you were drawn to the source that softened your pain.

          Is that an accurate summary of your experience?

          It's interesting that his parents were so instrumental in this discovery.  Had they invited you to church before your seperation?

      2. profile image0
        dennisemattposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        i love reading these. i am fascinated by others beliefs. all threads seem to turn into something else, i personally have been distracted by something and gone off topic. no bad intentions and i say sorry. there are sooooooo many people and views its impossable  to expect no argument in such a historically controversial subject

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, but respectful posts should be given respectful responses.

          1. profile image0
            dennisemattposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            absolutley. I am sorry if I seemed disrespectful. It was not my intention. I just meant that non religous forums sometimes turn into a mess as well. AND that people, right or wrong, will often violently defend thier beliefs. I still think its funny how so many people think beleiving in God Lord Jesus Buddha Mother Earth whatever.. is the same thing as religion.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
              Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I was commenting generally, not to any of your posts specifically.  You do show respect for other viewpoints, and gosh darnit people like you smile

              1. profile image0
                dennisemattposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                awwwwgolleeee i do feel special now    smile

      3. fishmox profile image59
        fishmoxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Missed this one, Ron.

        How did anyone claiming to be a Christian become a Christian is a fair question.
        I guess I should add:  Does anyone BECOME a Christian ?  Or can anybody MAKE HIMSELF a Christian ?

        The Roman Catholics say that one is a Christian once one is baptized into the church, hence the term "Christening".

        So do some Protestant sects like the Episcopalians.

        I used to think that I became a Christian when I "accepted" Christ as Savior back in 1973.  Which is how many here think they became Christians, by walking down the aisle, repenting, and saying a silly little prayer called a sinner's prayer.

        From then on, EVERYONE who was not in their church, or who did not believe the way they do (and that included me with that attitude) was NOT a Christian, an unbeliever, a sinning sinner hellbound and soon to be devil's fodder.

        UNTIL, that is, I found that a Christian is one who belongs to Christ because God elected that person IN CHRIST out of pure mercy unto salvation from a fallen race and that election unto salvation not having anything to do with the person's theology, or lack of it, soteriology or lack of it, doctrines or lack of them, faith or lack of it.

        I found that, in accordance with the criteria of the Bible on who is a Christian, there are millions of them walking  around who do not even know they are Christians in the proper sense of the word, and millions of them who are walking around who think they are Christians because they made themselves one.

        Most (not all) of the devil's "Christians" think of Christianity as a set of do's and dont's and rituals and rites.

        God's Christians are those He chose in Christ from before the foundation of the world and whose names He has in His never to be erased memory which is why He will be able to say in the end,"depart from me, I never KNEW you".

        With all due respects to your unbelief.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          There is a complete abscense of free will in being a Christian?

          1. fishmox profile image59
            fishmoxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Free will is a myth advanced by those who would like to have a hand in their salvation instead of allowing God to exercise His Sovereign Right to choose whom He wants saved.

            The Bible asks:  Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (Jeremiah 13:23), and this is even addressed to Israel, who are supposed to be God's national chosen people.

            Unregenerate man's free will is just about as free as a rattlesnake attempting to fly.

            That is why God Himself, in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ, had to live a sinless and perfect life in order to be the sacrifice for the sins of His people, and only His people, not mankind, sorry to disappoint those in Christendom who thinks Christ is the Savior of all mankind.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
              Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              So an atheist has no choice to become a Christian?

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image62
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't realize the devil had his own Christians.  It must be very confusing to be one.  Who does the 10 point vig go to?

          1. fishmox profile image59
            fishmoxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No, the devil does not have his own Christians.  There are two kinds of people in this world. The elect and the unelect.  The elect are God's children by virtue of His choice of them, not theirs of His.  They were born unregenerate, and in due time will be regenerated by the Spirit.

            Then there are the devil's own, the unelect. Not Christians, but little, junior satans.  Many are religious, many unbelieving.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image62
              Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              The devil's own are condemned?  Do they still pay the vig?

            2. profile image0
              ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yes...I get what you mean here, when you say many are religious....Like Jim Jones....Remember him?

    2. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't understand. The last thread I saw that you started was the bible thread and you asked the question:



      But you ignored any and all responses until you finally said:


      Which was apparently the answer you were looking for. Ignored were all the statements that you can not possibly know this because you do not speak Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or Latin; ignored were the references to King James and the instructions etc etc.

      Pretty much everything was ignored until you said what you wanted to say.

      Why, when a christain asks a forum question, does it seem they already have the answer and will not be satisfied until that is what they get?

      Sorry to say, this does not constitute showing "respect for other's beliefs," nor does it endear anyone to your particular cult.

      Why not just come out and preach what you want to preach in the first place?

      And you are by no means alone - those of us who are here regularly see it a lot.

      1. profile image0
        ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The question was (On my last thread) Do you read the Bible daily, once in a while, or not at all?  That was a simple question, that anyone could have answered, and it would have been accepted....

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes - your secondary questions were that. But your first question was as I quoted.

          I see you have not responded to what I said other than to say that.

          Does anyone really know what the bible is?

          Which is the question you answered.

          Don't get me wrong - I understand how frustrating it must be for you to have to pretend to respect other people's beliefs, when all you really want to do is remind us that the bible is the one true word of god.

          Sorry. sad

      2. profile image0
        ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this
      3. Eaglekiwi profile image74
        Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So when a Christians speaks its called Preaching & Argueing
        When a Non-Christian speaks its called Debate and respect..lol
        ( double standards , yes indeedy)

        Its power-play for some ,cat n mouse game for others, lol something to do while ya supposedly do real work..

        Hey Id love to discuss or preach some more , but I gotta  answer my sons email, political science student, hmmm.!...( wish he was in Texas) wink

        p.s After my latest hub though , there are definately crackpots on both sides of the fence...bloody nora! lol

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I have never said I respect your opinion (or hers). Sorry, I am not such a hypocrite.

          Do I respect you right to have it? No question.

          Not sure why I should respect the actual opinion though. And not sure why you are stepping in to distract away from the points of the argument either..............

          Oh yes. I see now. LOLOLOL

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image74
            Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            What ??

            Did anyone ever tell you, you babble sometimes Mark.

            Oh so you havent deemed it right for me to speak yet lol

            What are the points oh lofty one, it will only be opinion based of course -yours

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Surely you can work it out. But - if you prefer to detract from the actual discussion - that is your right I suppose. Anything to avoid the points I made I guess.

            2. profile image0
              ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Another moment of absentmindedness, should have looked at it, before I answered Mark....And Mark...That wasn't the answer I was looking for, and I'm not even going to seek the answer anymore.....My final remark on the last thread is what I'm talking about here.....

    3. profile image0
      annvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe the person who opened the thread should not let them take it over.  Maybe they should ignore them?

      1. profile image0
        ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        After a week of negative remarks?  No, no one should have to take it....I left....

    4. Lady_E profile image82
      Lady_Eposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      From my Observation, it happens when a Christian or a Muslim question is asked in Forums. People do not like Religion thrown in their face or forced upon them. That's all.

    5. frogdropping profile image86
      frogdroppingposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know if the OP of such threads leaves so much as retreats.

    6. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Why, were the atheist or other beliefs not invited?  Seems to me that they leave because the posted with the sole purpose of converting, not learning.

      1. profile image0
        ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It was open to all beliefs....As this is....I just prefer people showing respect to any and all who respond....Or even to the ones who opened the threads....

    7. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Walking the spiritual path is difficult.Do remember all the prophets including Jesus were mocked but that didn't stop them from spreading god knowledge.Have courage and patience. smile

      1. profile image0
        ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thank You...:-)

  2. Colebabie profile image61
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Sometimes, not always, a person will ask a question, not with the intention of getting a straight-forward black and white answer, but with the intention of just getting their point across. Usually they aren't so much questions, as their personal views disguised as a question.

    In the case of the religion forum, this is kinda common. It isn't just non-believers, but other believers (not just the original poster) that continue the thread both on and off topic.

  3. Beth100 profile image83
    Beth100posted 7 years ago

    You will find that this happens in non-religious threads too.  I agree with Colebabie that each individual is expressing their opinion, even if it comes across as a question.  The controversies begin when one or more individuals cannot accept that the other individuals are entitled to their own opinion and feel that they must push their viewpoint until the other party(ies) accept it.

  4. profile image0
    annvansposted 7 years ago

    I think it is just because everyone wants to be heard.  Not that everyone will agree, but people want to be heard for what they believe in.  I do not think anyone means any harm.  Things like that happen in the forums all the time.

    1. profile image0
      ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      True...A little respect, regardless of the beliefs go a long ways though...

      1. profile image0
        annvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        True, which is more important...the people or the belief?

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I have been asking this question since I joined hubpages.  Who is more important people or god.

          Sadly... well you can figure out the rest. sad  Sadly, they believe that god is more important than people and they can't figure out the problem.

          1. profile image0
            annvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I was meaning that the people are more important than a belief.  Sure God would top of the list, but I mean should we let what someone believes come between us?  I would say no, we as people are more important than what someone believes.  I don't know if I can really say this in the right way.  Ok...I am saying that we shouldn't argue or get upset when we do not agree on the same thing and that I think it is more important for people to get along and get passed their differences than to let their beliefs and thoughts come between them.

            1. profile image0
              ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Ah!!  This is saying it like it is!!  Your beliefs are differant, and the action should be is agree to disagree, and leave it at that....You can still have a friendship....

        2. profile image0
          ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ouch, that can be answered both ways, so....I'll leave it as it should be...Unanswered....

  5. blondepoet profile image79
    blondepoetposted 7 years ago

    I would not do that I respect everyones beliefs.

  6. profile image0
    sbeakrposted 7 years ago

    personally, i get sick of being called a 'non-believer' just because i'm 'non-christian.'

    to me, that is a double-standard. what i wouldn't call a double-standard is the fact that christians are labeled 'preachy' while non-religious folks are called 'debaters'...i think this discrepancy is perfectly apropos.

    i say this due to the fact that i (non-christian) do not start religious threads inquiring 'do you think god is a stupid concept?' to follow up some time later with my own opinion that IT is.  nor do i physically knock on people's doors to ask, 'have you heard the good news? the book of nietzsche tells us god is dead!'

    i believe the difference is glaring and very thought-provoking, to say the least.

    1. profile image0
      ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And people who say you are a non-believer, are judging....You don't beleive?  That's fine...As for those who comment you are a non-believer, because you don't believe?  Shame on them!

  7. earnestshub profile image85
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Very astute observation Sandra.The people part is missed the moment an assumptive thread or reply is made. I never feel comfortable with the knowledge that many of the religious posts are simply "explaining" from one book or another that they have the only truth, and the rest of humanity will be punished by their god for not belonging to their particular religion.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, it seems so backwards that the words of their god said it was in man he loved... *sigh*  to preach love of humanity without the love. sad

    2. Eaglekiwi profile image74
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      So earnest why would you be bothered with such a thread in the first place, if it makes you uncomfortable.

      Are people not attracted to a topic , because

      1/ looks interesting
      2/ I might know something
      3 Looks like fun

      If a non believer for example started a thread on 'Evolution' for example , I might visit ,but my interest would die off , I certainly doubt I would make it a daily ritual to spar or discuss too much.

      I would figure ( rightfully so) that like minded people would be discussing the topic.

      I think personalities are fantastic ,and who doesnt like to be funny or smart , even occassionally sarcastic, but for it to be a habit just ruins the spirit, offends (pardon the pun) for many people.


      We all have opinions and whether we like it or not, our thoughts appear on screen ,so it makes no sense to attack one another , after the event so to speak , lol
      smile

  8. Ron Montgomery profile image62
    Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago

    We may learn more about where they're coming from (if that's of interest to anyone) by engaging in conversation rather than belittling them from the threads with insults.  There are some posters whose thought origins are of no interest to me, but I believe the OP of this thread has an interesting story to tell.

  9. SparklingJewel profile image68
    SparklingJewelposted 7 years ago

    I like to read where everyone is coming from. I really learn a lot about our individuality, our needs, our thoughts on issues, our spiritual views. I like it that we are all so different and in different places in life understanding. We all learn so much from each other about what love is and is not. big_smile

  10. Pamda Man profile image60
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I respect everyone's beliefs but just don't try to preach me.

  11. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    Atheists on here always seem to get a bad rep for being rude or disrespectful, whereas religious people are merely seen as standing up for their beliefs. But in my (short) experience most of the threads that get really heated are the ones where a religious person has said something deliberately provoking or disrespectful.

    There was the ridiculous 'atheism is irrational, implausible and boring.' there have been several asking why atheists do not believe in god, and today/yesterday the one about evolution being rubbish.

    I cannot recall a thread started by a non-religious person saying 'Christianity is stupid' or anything like that, even though I'm sure there are plenty of hubbers who think that.

    1. profile image0
      ellie1142545posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I am the grandmother of an Athiest...Even though I, and his grandfather are Christians....We have discussions (when he brings them up), and at the end of our discussion, he remains silent, or he'll say, I'm sorry Grams, but I don't believe that....Do I get upset no....It's his choice, and he is a very fine young man, who is polite, says thankyou, and he loves to volunteer in helping others when he can....Will I try to convert him?  No, I don't have the power to do so, but I can, and do pray for him daily....

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        See, that is a good spirit.  The many times I have heard of folks abandoning or smiting their children (grandchildren) for having a different belief, is really heart breaking and disturbing.

        Most my family is Catholic but my aunt, of all of them, is about as sweet as they come.  She doesn't judge, she says what she says and I believe she means it when she says, I love you and god bless.

        And when I know that someone really loves me, even when their beliefs are different from mine, then the "holy spirit" does pass on in the sense of being loved and accepted no matter what.

        You sound like an excellent grandmother.  Cheers! big_smile

        1. JonTutor profile image60
          JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I concur... she is a good grandma... there aren't many old folks... who're gonna stand our questioning. smile

  12. earnestshub profile image85
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    smile None of your sky fairies are controlling anything! smile

  13. earnestshub profile image85
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    I am all for walking the spiritual path, a lot of it is good logic. If you have been loved in life and feel an inner confidence and feeling of "self" then you will already know the rewards of loving in your spirit and soul.I believe that no formal religion is necessary to find this part of self, it requires the painful process of self examination though, and many lack the courage for the journey. Survivor types who have a lot of psychological courage seem to be able to learn how to love as well.I find that immensely motivational.

 
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