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ARE ATHEIST MAD?

  1. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    I understand that this question is a generalization. I ask the question with all due respect. I have noticed in the forums that some/most atheist believe that we/humans are simple chance of evolution. Some believe we have no divine reason or purpose in life. This is understandable, but is it a reason to tell religionist that their belief is trash because you don't agree?

    1. Pamda Man profile image61
      Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It seems to be more of the other way round.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree that both sides point fingers.

    2. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The very fact that you use the word "chance" with "evolution," pretty much sums it up.

      Really - why don't you educate yourself about evolution before making such broad generalizations?

      We evolved. Chance has nothing to do with the process. Deal with it.

      Although - I have to say - my understanding of the evolutionary process had nothing to do with coming to the conclusion that there is no divine creator behind everything. Which is what all atheists do not believe. wink

      Quite honestly any one who comes to the conclusion that there is a divine purpose either has particularly low self-esteem, an unreasonable fear of death, or needs their head examined as far as I am concerned.

      1. Pamda Man profile image61
        Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Oh! Sorry, Mark! My poor English!

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I think you are mad because you cannot find purpose or reason and have given up. You can't explain your evolution of how the human mind became so complex to the animal mind. You rely on science, but you have no science to show where or when the human mind seperated, so you "assume". Your assumptions are the same as religions assumptions.

        1. Pamda Man profile image61
          Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Lol. You are attacking athiest.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            There is no attack anywhere. Do you feel threatened? I was making the comment to Mark, not all atheist. However, I can see why many atheist are mad when they can't find reason or purpose to life.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              another (sightly) veiled attack.

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                How do you feel attacked?

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Not going that way sunshine! You get to wear what you said.
                  "I can see why many atheist are mad when they can't find reason or purpose to life." How else would you describe it?

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Look its no different to how an atheist questions a Christian, so quit the defensive attitude and just answer the question ,if it was for you.

                  2. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    In that statement, I was making the relation of seeing how someone can be mad when they don't see reason/purpose for life. I also said "many", not all. I have respect for you from previous conversations. If I said anything that offended you, I appologize. Thank You

        2. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          What have I "assumed," exactly?

          I have read a lot of religious books, I have discussed the matter with many clergymen, I have listened and watched the way people who believe in the christian god behave and speak to me and I have made a rational decision that there is not a god.

          On further researching, I discovered evolution and made an effort to understand how it works. This led me to believe that the christian literalists are 100% wrong and we were not "created."

          On even further research, I have made a rational decision that there is no room for a god in evolutionary biology.

          On even more research, I discovered that there was a point in time that homo sapiens apparently became self aware - evidenced by the discovery of art and other non-functional artifacts from around that time, when there were none before.

          Homo Sapiens have been around for around 190,000 years, so something triggered this self-awareness.

          I do not know exactly what that is. But I reject anyone who tells me they do based on "well, there MUST be a purpouse, otherwise it is all a waste of time."

          And attacking me as being mad because I "cannot find purpose or reason," and have "given up," is not really debating anything.

          Sorry you feel the need to attack others who do not share your beliefs, but if you have anything rational to add, I would be happy to debate you.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
            Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Mark many scientists beleive that the earth is not that old ,so saying mankind is x amount of years old is not true.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Eaglekiwi - this is untrue. Certainly a very small minority of religious "scientists" are prepared to say so, but the evidence is overwhelming.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Completely overwhelming.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                  Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Depends on which answer you like best as too which answer would be overwhelming IMO

              2. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No not a small majority and I agree there is overwhleming evidence or could some of that evidence actaully be 'speculation' and/or theory.
                Science is an amazing topic and part of those years of amazing research is to analyse and decipher theory from fact.
                Like age of soil , condition of atmposphere, land mass, oceans , on and on.
                Trees ,fauna , animals , age ,adaptation etc , I agree they evolved ,but I do not accept they evolved into another creature (as in man), they like humans evolved ,or adapted within their own species.

                Which would also explain why an animal that has been cross bred with another breed cannot produce offspring.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol

                  Then how do new species come about exactly?

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    They are being discovered almost daily ,how they come about initially, God created them.
                    There are still so many insects for example that man can not name as there are so many.
                    The scientist can create a new breed but he cannot do it from scrathc ie create the original cell.

          2. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Mark, I must say, this is the first productive comment I have seen you make on any of my threads. Sincerely, Thank You for your thoughts. You have knowledge to add when you let the arrogance go. Thank You.

            You say "something" triggered our self-awareness, what in your idea triggered this? It is very humble of you to say that you do not know what triggered this. I also do not know as I agree that religion does not know. I also reject religions "theory" of life.

            If you claim to say human mind is evolution without science of proof, this would be claiming to know, right?

            I am not attacking anyone that doesn't share my belief. I don't want anyone to share my belief. This would be a contradiction to my idea of individualism.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Well, you just let me know when you can stop being so condescending and I will be happy to move forwards. wink

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I would like you to write any information or link that shows where/when self-awareness began if you would.

              2. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                lol sounds familiar that answer lol

    3. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You cannot accuse someone of being mad "with respect".  It's incredibly rude.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I made the comment that the post was a generalization. I can find common ground with struggling to find purpose in life. I appologize to anyone that is too offended to answer the question. Thank You

      2. Bibowen profile image90
        Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        But is it more rude to accuse someone of being mad "without respect" than with it?

    4. guidebaba profile image60
      guidebabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No! They are WISE MEN. We, ATHEISTS don't waste out time on VIRTUAL things.

      Here is what your God has to offer you:

      http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg294/vicious_rellik/FUNNY%20STUFF/christ-middle-finger.jpg?t=1249144825

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You are a brilliant representation for atheist. You clearly jumped to the last post in the thread.

    5. Drew Breezzy profile image82
      Drew Breezzyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Mad? no

      But believing in a world without some sort of purpose is a depressing way to view the world.

  2. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    Athiest -> Believer

    This is the natural law of religion. You always see this. Never believer become athiest. So naturally, believers will preach us into believing more than the other way. Wrong question.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Is there a difference between atheist and religionist? Both are grouped beliefs to an extent.

    2. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      There are many ex-believers.  Not sure what natural law you are talking about?

  3. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I have come with a conclusion that marineairways (hmm, this is ironic) is a flamer. /thread.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Ha, and you accuse me of being the attacker. Point made. You are an angry atheist.

  4. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    Okay. Fun's over. End of thread. [/thread]

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol you insult me as being a flamer, then you get your feelings hurt. It's not my fault that you can't debate your belief as an adult.

      1. Pearldiver profile image86
        Pearldiverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Ok you beat a Panda.... Now answer my question.

    2. Pamda Man profile image61
      Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this
  5. Pearldiver profile image86
    Pearldiverposted 7 years ago

    So let's add another stick on the mill!
    Do you believe that Christians are justified burning witches?

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No, I classed the religionist with the atheist as a "grouped belief". I am an individual with individual belief. I do not believe in grouped belief. I also don't believe in any belief that is assuming or closed to debate.

  6. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I think I should start a thread counting how many threads are on fire. I think HubPages forums has the record, just below 4chan forums.

  7. Pearldiver profile image86
    Pearldiverposted 7 years ago

    Do you believe Christians Evolved?

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I believe all life evolved, however, I believe there is seperation in the evolution of human life.

      1. Pearldiver profile image86
        Pearldiverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Separation being???

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          When the animal/human mind seperated to a complexity "above" other animal minds capabilities. I do not know how/when, I can only speculate.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
            Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Humans have the power to reason :)plan ,analyse and speculate.
            My dog learns by cause and effect, (rewards) and training. Instinct. ( no committe meetings for him) lol

            Plus humans have morals.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Excellent points you added among many other unknown complexities of our minds.

  8. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I just discovered that hubbers never learn.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This is from someone that can't spell "Panda" correctly in their name.

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
        Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol that was funny

  9. Eaglekiwi profile image77
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    Marine , do you mean mad as in loony or mad as in angry,because I certainly notice anger and cynacism alot from a non-beleiver directed at Christians.

    Personally I love sharing things that Christ has done for me ,but if someone else doesnt want to hear it ,no problem.

    Creation has evolution as in rotating and adaptation ,but mankind is still trying to find the missing link,so I like millions of others know it will always be just a theory.

    Intellectual minds always try to make Jesus fit into their understanding of logic ,it doesnt work ,so they find solutions that fit their questions instead.

    For example I had a neighbor once who always imagined she was ill, and spent hundreds of dollars visiting doctors ,and trying new medicines ,from everything to dry skin to hiccups, anyway eventually she found someone who believed her theories and fed her all kinds of mumbo jumbo.

    My point being that if we doubt persistantly and just want our answers to be right , eventually we can find someone to support our delusions.

    There are some great debaters out there for both sides (not Hubpages sadly) and they do show respect and maturity when discussing the topic ,which is always I think mature and shows strong self esteem values.smile

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I can find common ground with the struggle to find reason/purpose and have been mad before. Simply because I got mad did not make me turn to atheism or religion. I believe neither. If someone is "happy" with closed debate to their belief, more power to them. To each their own. Thank You

  10. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    I don't get all the controversy. I don't believe in God, others do. There is not "grouped belief" there for me. As long as people don't constantly try and force their beliefs on me or keep telling me I am wrong, I don't care.

    I'm tired of all these atheist thread in the religion forum. I think we have discussed it to death...

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you 100% UW and Im a beleiver lol ,but seems to me if it cant be discussed (any topic) then its bickering and non productive .

      Actually we see other threads closed ,but not these ones, strange that?

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I applaud you for your individual belief. I simply find it strange why some that critsize others belief for lack of debate will not debate their different belief. It is hypocritical to me. Thank You

  11. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    What would you like to debate? If atheists are mad or not?

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, and whether there is reason or purpose of life.

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
        Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I think you make your own reason or purpose in life.

        If I came close to following one set philosophy it would be Existentialism which is "a philosophy concerned with finding self and the meaning of life through free will, choice, and personal responsibility."

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Thank You for adding. I agree with the points of the philosophy you mentioned. The only disagreement is that I think every individual should "lead" their philosophy rather than "follow" anothers philosophy.

  12. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    I don't think there's a purpose on life. You should live the best you can
    and it's not important where do we come from, but where are we going....
    religion debates takes you nowhere
    evolution debates as well
    I'm not beginng a debate here, cause i have to go. but i felt in the need to say what I think. Have a nice week-rnd !

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I hope you have a safe and laughter filled week-end tantrum!!  smile

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I allways have lol  the same 2 you smile

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
          Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          wink good for you!! n can ya pick me up some eggs ,ive run out ta.lol

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this



            Don't understand aussie slang ..i'm from other planet...anyway,, lol  lol  lol

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
              Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this
              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                From where i come from, talking about eggs is kind of rude lol
                Sorry smile misunderstood lol .lol.

                1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                  Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this
  13. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    Religion takes you nowhere. I don't understand why people still participate in these threads.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I do

  14. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    Religion takes you nowhere. I don't understand why people still participate in these threads.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I disagree. Some religious are very happy in life with their belief. Is not the point of life to be happy in belief?

      1. Jewels profile image81
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Isn't the reason for life to be the best you can be within yourself? Wouldn't that make a person happy; to be happy with who they are and what they do, regardless of what it is they do?   Why is there the need for belief?

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Some/Many need belief or purpose to be happy? How can someone be happy not knowing what the reason or purpose is? Seems kinda blind to me.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It may interest you to know then, that I have great purpose and motivation, I know where I am going, why I am going there, and have love in my life everyday just like other lucky people, I just do not have a god, and that does make me happier than I would otherwise be.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              That is truly excellent to hear. I believe this is the ultimate goal to find individual purpose whether it's through any particular belief or not.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Well, nice we agree! smile It has always involved much emotional pain though.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I would like to know what you feel your individual purpose is if you wouldn't mind sharing? Thank You

          2. Jewels profile image81
            Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            So being the best you can be is not reason enough?

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Being the best I can is a good reason and motivation tool. Reason enough? No, too many unanswered questions. Why do I want to do my best? Why don't I just follow a pattern of nature as other animals and live without a conscious? Is there a reason why I have a conscious and other animals haven't evolved a conscious? This is the part I don't understand.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The way I see it the questions are not that hard. To behave in a most humane way, to be good to your fellow man is logical, and can be arrived at by what I see as awareness. Conscience is not consciousness. If we are fully conscious of the effects of our actions, we can then control them accordingly with little moral effort.To be moral is simply to be fully aware of your actions and outcomes.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree. I don't understand why "we" are the only life in evolution to have these complexities of thought. Why are there questions/answers? Why not just follow natures design as other animals? Why are we seperated in mind from other life is the part i'm asking. Why are we the only life that can teach/learn information from generation to generation when other life can't? I would like to know if there is reason behind the differences.

              2. Jewels profile image81
                Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                -Because doing your best and being the best you can be is what makes you feel good.  And not doing the best you can makes one feel unfulfilled and incomplete.

                -Chose not to follow a pattern of nature. You do not have to mimic everyone around you, including animals.  It requires willpower.

                -On a forum such as this, absolute proof is not going to be produced. Thru science you will learn the physical differences from bones and brains to DNA.  If anything unexplainable is labeled "God" then expect morons in the soup.

                PS:  In my experience if purpose is to fulfill the agenda of something external, it's f*cked.

  15. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Well that is probably true of a hub that is insulting in it's very title.

    How about another one. "Are those who believe in god mad?" Is that ok then?

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You are free to post it Ernest , its a free world smile

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        .and your happy with that title?

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
          Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          wouldnt bother me in the least ,ive seen worse lol

          its just a title ,if ya put my name on it ,then I might cry ahhhhh...but no I wouldnt take it personally....

          thats why I dont understand the sensitivity of some atheists, is it paranoia do ya think , to think every Christian is trying to save them ? lol (theyre not)

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I understand that Eaglekiwi, there are two things that bother non religious people. Making assumptive statements with negative connotations for us, (my way or the highway} and including us in god concepts like sin. It seems to always escape religionists that we do not hold with their belief to be any type of proof.

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
              Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Well probably what most disappoints me are non-believers who lump Christians all in the same boat.
              I am sure that you are an individual as I am too.
              And I have met Christians that I didnt particularly like either or I just didnt want to be around.

              Its just wrong though to make a statement (anyone) and not expect a response ,its arrogant to think any one group should have the ultimate final say,then end it with a cry of wolf  or insult....like kids do , he said ,she said etc.

              all the one liners would be a hub in itself lol

          2. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Great statement. I don't see why "anyone" is defensive and closed to debate of their belief. All belief should be open to debate.

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Ok Earnest, to be fair, I will do that one after this one.

  16. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I'm happy as long as believers and non believers do not debate on religion.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      So everyone should be closed to debate? Sounds religious. You sure you are atheist?

      1. Pamda Man profile image61
        Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No, debating is good. But religious debating is just pointless. No party is going to go anywhere, because the conclusion is already decided. Sounds dumb. You sure you are intelligent enough to debate?

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "Pam"da", no, I am no where close to your intelligence level.

          1. Pamda Man profile image61
            Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            And your title is "ARE ATHIEST MAD?"... Hmm... where's the plural? I'm sure you have another excuse for that huh?

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You believe there is no reason or purpose for anything, does me making "Athiest" plural really matter?

              1. Pamda Man profile image61
                Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Because I want to.

                And that makes me delighted. You cannot control what I want to do. I'm not violating anything right here. And you can't do anything about it. And you can stop talking about my name. This thread still sounds dumb. But I'm not of any intelligence level here, like all of you. Humans are dumb. That includes you, marinealways. lol

                And I believe there is a purpose for me to not believe in God.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, I am very dumb. I have no clue of what my purpose is or if I have one. Unlike you, you are brilliant. You clearly know your purpose is to not believe in a God. I commend you for being so fixed on your purpose.

  17. world of the wise profile image23
    world of the wiseposted 7 years ago

    All the evolutionally assumptions are baseless, you cant assume a closed system and you expect others to believe in you.
    True sceintists are now discovering that our lives have nothing to do with chance.

  18. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I've heard many Christians say they believe in evolution. This is just an oxymoron.

  19. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    Great, now you ignore me now. Nice move, I guess. big_smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Steady Panda man, it's all cool, some still have steam driven internet connections.  smile

      1. Pamda Man profile image61
        Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        LMFAO!!!

  20. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    Perhaps this is not the same for all atheists but I've always thought there was no universal purpose or reason for life. Religious people/believers in God, presumably thing that the point of life is to serve god, or to be a good person in order to get to heaven, or something similar. So it makes sense that a non-believer would not see these purposes and thus have no purpose.

    This is NOT the same as giving up on finding a purpose, or not being able to find one. They 'know' that there isnt one. That doesnt mean that nothing matters. It makes the decisions we make and the things we do in this world are even more important because that is ALL that matters. You find your own purpose in life (mine is just to be happy).

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Again, I commend anyone that is happy with their purpose in life or belief. I also believe that someone should live for their individual purpose during life rather than a reward at death.

  21. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I don't  know how to respond. You win, marine.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      There is no winner in the unknown. Only a middle.

  22. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I have an idea. Why don't we all surrender? Then there won't be any of this sh it now would there? Hmm? smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That would seem true, but try it! smile it does not work! smile

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Surrendering would be closed to debate, wouldn't it?

  23. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I am Yogi Bear.

  24. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    Let's try.

    I SURRENDER

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I debate.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Jeez pandaman it's been thirteen minutes already! lol lol

      2. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not really. You attack people, ignore questions posed, occasionally make a condescending remark and then tell us what you believe and by extension, what we must believe. This is not really debating.

        Arguing? Possibly.

        You are not sure if you have a purpose:



        but you are pretty sure that if there is no purpose, then it is not possible to be happy:



        And anyone who has decided there is not a purpose must be mad because of this:



        Then you decide that there is a purpose and people should live with this purpose in mind:



        and you know what it is:

        And the purpose seems to be finding a purpose.

        This is hard to debate with because you are not really making any sense - unless you are just looking for some company?

        Being as condescending as you are is not really condusive to a discussion or debate either.

        But - as you know, the purpose of life is to find a purpose, so I am not really sure that it is reasonable to throw a divine being in there, as this all seems pretty pointless.

        big_smile

        1. Pamda Man profile image61
          Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Mark. Join me in the surrending army! big_smile

        2. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          If ideas lead to the science you base your idea of logic on, how is any idea or belief pointless?

          You say I ignore questions, I have tried to answer every question posed to "me" on the thread. Where was you response when I asked you of the "self-awareness" or was you too busy looking for my mitakes to see that post?

          If you are happy in your individual life without a purpose, what makes you happy in life? Finding others mistakes?


          You ask me if i'm looking for company? I said this would be hypocritical of my belief of individualism. Are you not reading the posts?

          You are wrong on your assumptions. If you would read my previous posts, we wouldn't be going in circles.

          Once again, I appreciate when you add "your" ideas rather than nit pick others errors. Thank You.


          If you are consumed with the logic of the known, how can you expect to open your mind to the unknown?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            LOL

            Don't you mean you appreciate it when I am not being arrogant?

            Now - address the question I posed. You accused me of making "assumptions."

            What assumptions was I making.

            I would also appreciate it if you addressed the circular nature of all the statements you have made - which make it clear that you believe something, but are not really sure what to believe.

            I have not said you made a mistake. In attempting to see what your reasoning was, I collected these quotes to discover that there is not really any other than the fact that you think anyone who does not have a purpose must be mad. But you do not seem to know what that purpose is, or even if there is one.

            So, after reading what you have written, I do not think it unreasonable to conclude that there is not a purpose.

            What do you think?

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I appreaciate when you write without arrogance also.

              On the assumption, I am speaking of your thoughts on evolution. You sound so sure when you write that we have evolved to our human mind capabilities without intervention, yet science does not show this.

              On my belief, I believe there is a creator/creators to all creations. I would not be born without a mom and a father or by intervention, correct? To say God/Gods would be confusing because I do not believe the religious idea for defining the unknown nor do I fully believe evolution to our current minds capability. Again, I leave all belief open to debate. I do not rule out anything of the unknown with purely logic. Logic is not always found with scientific facts when something is unknown.


              I simply do not understand how someone is happy without seeing a purpose. This is why I ask the question. I don't know what my individual purpose is, but I don't give up searching for it.

              Just because I haven't found "my" purpose yet doesn't mean I will not find it. The only way I wouldn't have a chance of finding purpose is if I stopped looking.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Well, I sure would appreciate it if you lost the condescending tone.

                I see no evidence for an "intervention." Do you have some perhaps that leads you to assume that there was one?


                I know what you believe. There is no basis for this other than, "well, there must have been a creator, so therefore there was."

                Which is no sort of argument at all.

                I have found that I do not need there to be a purpose to be happy in myself. This is the best I can come up with.

                Once I accepted that I am no more or less "important," than any other animal and are part of something far bigger than myself, I became content to be that and enjoy my life. Which I do.

                Your current unhappiness seems to stem from the fact that you have not found your purpose, and you are holding on to the idea that there must be one - otherwise people must be mad and unhappy. Which if you think about it is pretty ironic and self fulfilling.

                What I was doing by showing you all the list of circular statements you have made was to lead you to the piss-easy answer that most people go with.

                But you have rejected that one in favor of starting your own religion. wink

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol I must say, for you to have so much knowledge in some areas, you are clueless in others. You claim I am starting my own religion? This is a huge contradiction if you understood "individualism". Individualism is seperation of grouped belief.

                  You say your human life is no more important than another animal life. You have countless interactions every day and your words/actions can make a huge impression, good or bad to everyone your words reach. It seems you choose to make a bad impression by finding mistakes rather than educating on the knowledge and ideas you have. This is contradiction to intelligence. 


                  I am truly happy that you are content and happy of life without a creators purpose. I am not content with the unknown.



                  Is to say I was created without a creator/creators a "logical" statement? I don't think so in my idea of logic.



                  Again, Thank You for your ideas.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Just cannot lose the condescension huh? lol

                    To say that you were created is to assume you were created in the first place.

                    I know that you are not content with the unknown. That much is obvious.

                    Why don't you just assume a creator with a purpose for you instead?

                    Not a religion - oh no. lol lol

                    Now who is the clueless one? lol

                    Let me know when you have written your first bible. lol

  25. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    I think I was being too nice to everyone. Everyone stopped posting.

  26. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    Why do you have to find a purpose? Can't you just live?  In the end we are all animals with a small brain, we thing big, full of imagination.
    from that imagination comes religion, and from religion all the horrible things that happen in this world. I chose to be and  be happy! waiting for my end without regrets smile

    1. Pamda Man profile image61
      Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Join me in the surrending army! big_smile

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I prefer to have purpose and reason for doing things. If you are happy, don't you have a purpose or reason for being happy?

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Living and enjoying life is enough  And learning from others, and understanding...

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I do these things and I highly enjoy learning from others. This still does not show me purpose/reason to existance.

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            There's none !  So have a nice week-end and stop worrying  smile

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You have a nice week also. I'm not worried, i'm curious, theres difference. I prefer to know rather than be content with my lack of knowledge on myself.

  27. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    I surrender again

  28. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    What goes around comes around comes all the way back around, yeah

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That is definately the truth in the circle of life. That I can agree on.

  29. Pamda Man profile image61
    Pamda Manposted 7 years ago

    My life is brilliant.
    Your life's a joke.
    You're just pathetic.
    You're always broke.

    Your homemade Star Trek uniform
    really ain't impressing me.
    You're suffering from delusions of
    adequacy.

    You're pitiful.
    You're pitiful.
    You're pitiful.
    It's true...

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol I hope that wasn't directed at me.

  30. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    OMG !! iF THERE'S A GOD..... (Sorry 2 interrupt )

  31. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    Just thought I'd interject here .... if you want to go ahead with the 'everything was created therefore there is a creator' argument, then you have to admit that God  was created. Who created God? Who created the one that created God? etc. At some point you're going to say there was something that just wasn't created. But if that's an exception then why can't there be other exceptions, like the universe. And BANG! we don't need God!

    (substitute for God who/whatever you want to believe created the world)

  32. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what makes sense to me is that we don't literally come from the chimps (monkeys) that currently exist. We (like them) evolve from some kind of primate that is no longer in existence. We evolved in a different way to them hence why we have different DNA, but we come from the same original primate?

  33. guidebaba profile image60
    guidebabaposted 7 years ago

    This TRASH Thread doesn't deserve to be read thoroughly. Something REAL would have deserved it.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And you're a professional blogger ?   I wonder!.....

      1. guidebaba profile image60
        guidebabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Do you have any doub't? I wonder if there is any relationship between Blogging and being Atheist.

        I need to make good use of my valuable time rather than wasting it here.

        Have a good date with your so called God.

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this



          I don't believe in God either! I didn't like the way you present things, if u know what I mean smile

          1. guidebaba profile image60
            guidebabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I apologize. We engineers just believe in REAL SCIENCE. Maybe my education has something to do with me being an Atheist.

            Plz do not take anything personally. I normally avoid these kind of negative arguments, but this time I was not able to resist.

            Sorry once again if I hurt you in any possible way.

            cool

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It's all right!  u didn't hurt me at all ! cool

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this
                1. tantrum profile image60
                  tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  eggs >balls lol

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image77
                    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    ok I never heard that before!! guess you are on another planet lol

                2. tantrum profile image60
                  tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  He apologized... that's o.k. 4 me  smile

                  I think we should leave it.anyway he's not around

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    You are right. I agree.

            2. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You say you are educated yet you come on the last page of the thread making assumptions without reading the thread.

        2. Pamda Man profile image61
          Pamda Manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Join us. We have bamboo.

        3. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          How have your assumptions done so far?

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Do you often make comments without reading? You sound judgemental as if you are religious.

  34. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    My own personal theory is that there is a lot about the brain that we don't know and can't (yet) understand. And that the answer to a lot of these questions lies in the answer to this. Along with where consciousness (self awareness) comes from and what people call the soul. I think that the brain is key and that while there are no answers yet, the lack of answers is not a good reason to believe in God.

    1. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well spoken. I've done a few hubs on consciousness and the brain.  Is wonderful that science is finding so many answers.

  35. 0
    thetruthhurts2009posted 7 years ago

    My oh my, what do we have here? There are still atheist in the world? Wow I guess it's true “you can lead an atheist to evidence, but to can't make them think.” At least agonistic cling to Latin and admit they are ignorant and don't know, but to deny completely that there is a creator takes a giant leap of faith.
    Here some more evidence for you atheist, but weather or not you think is up to you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gL7w2coR3g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e20Cq5yob4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbYFqbEfv6c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clOMRxaVWTY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27tPZrCKYT0

    There are videos so you don't have to read, atheist. I'm not the author of the videos, but we agree on these truths. Good Luck atheist, and once your evolutionary, by chance, no purpose and no Creator fairy tale have been shattered pick up the Bible. OUT!
    BTW If you view the vids and still don't get it, just admit you are BLIND BY CHOICE!!

    1. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If this is your idea of an advertisement for God, you are off your rocker! :LOL:

      And the sheep graze blindly in their pastures smile

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree , and what a condescending arrogant turd you are thetruthhurts!

  36. 0
    thetruthhurts2009posted 7 years ago

    To the original question. Yea they are mad their house of cards is failing due to the lack of foundation.

  37. 0
    thetruthhurts2009posted 7 years ago

    The atheist is like a man on an island who sees a massive brick wall(earth) and he can’t or won’t grasp that someone put the wall there so he begins to gather sticks(science) to match the brick wall, sticks can be useful and do serve a good purpose, but when being used to match the creator of the wall they're  merely just sticks, but the atheist man becomes obsessed with the sticks, but whenever the wind blows(a new theory, change of opinion, or new science ie different looking sticks) the mans sticks fall, but forever determined to deny that someone created the wall, the sticks, the island, and the man, he continues to play with sticks, and if anyone even tries to tell them the truth, about the one who created it ALL the man yells, swears, mocks, ultimately revealing hes got nothing. and will continue to have nothing until he acknowledges the truth. What sad and empty life for the atheist always learning, but never able to acknowledge the truth.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      As I see you've known a bunch of stupid atheists, or maybe you didn't understood  them ?  I've never been in that island, i've never seen that wall  lol  I'm a happy  person with no problems... I don't believe in God... So what's your problem ? yikes Nothing 2 do this week-end ?

    2. uwgirl profile image60
      uwgirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I think people grasp on to religion and a higher power out of fear of death. People can't believe this life is all we get so they create a greater purpose and an after life to believe in to deal with the fact that we don't live forever. This is just my opinion. I don't know if there's a higher power or not. I guess this makes me an agnostic. I think there's a force greater than I am that we're all part of, but I don't believe in a divine creator and that should be okay. Why can't people who do believe in God respect the opinions of those of us who do not? Why can't you peacefully hold your own beliefs and let us have ours? I think it's because of the fear of religion falling apart. You have to find followers to validate your beliefs and make sure your dream of defying death lives on. Again, this is just my opinion. I think you need to live and let live and not pass judgment on people who are different from you.

  38. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    If someone does want to say we evolved from the chimps or a middle breed, it is described as a very slow process. What is the explanation for life not being at different levels of evolution today? Why are there no middle breeds?

  39. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    What and how could humans evolve  2,000 years from now? Would the human evolve into something else or remain human?

  40. Eaglekiwi profile image77
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    she I assume you mean knows where we are going?

    No I dont

    I know where Im going though ,so follow me Im not lost smile

  41. Eaglekiwi profile image77
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    Is ok now you understand why I find your theories so comical

    lol

    Never mind, we all still happy right?

  42. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    That's the biggest loada crap I've ever seen in my life. How embarrassing for him!

  43. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    I also do not understand why we are the only life that can pass information from generation to generation. No other animal is close to our abilities in learning/teaching.

    1. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Are you defining information as written knowledge or information saved to a data base?

      Instinctual Knowledge is passed onto animals, we are not the only species to do that.

      Perhaps compare apples with apples instead of oranges.  There is human intelligence and animal intelligence.  Maybe animals learn in a better way because if they don't they will be mince meat much faster.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Instinctual knowledge differs in animal compared to human. There is a "huge" gap in between the human ability to teach/learn/pass information from generation to generation comapred to the animal ability. What reason are we superior in our ability to teach and learn other than the instinct we are born with?

        1. Jewels profile image81
          Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think perhaps you need to have the mind of a dog or a tiger, and compare, to answer that question.  If your standpoint is only that of your human one, then how can you say an animal has lesser intelligence or has a lesser ability to teach?  An animal's instinctual knowledge appears far superior to ours.  In addition to having sharper senses.

          The more you see the actions of humans, one could argue our intelligent superiority.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Something can be born with greater instinct with a weaker ability to learn and teach. Which do you think is more advanced? Another form of our superiority is our domination over other life. We are the dominant species. I agree, you can say "some" humans have not evolved from their actions. Was this because they had an animal mind or because they didn't use their human conscious?

            1. Jewels profile image81
              Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              The human mind is malleable, similar to an animals mind. Social conditioning, environment and presented opportunities will determine outcomes.

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Ah, but our minds do not stick to these trainings. We have the ability to learn and take detours from what is not learned or taught by others.

  44. 0
    thetruthhurts2009posted 7 years ago

    Oh man you atheist are unbelievable, truth is like sunlight only few can stand it.” Psalm 53:1 "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good."
    Dumb atheist always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth."

    Matthew 7:6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

    "NOTE: Truth is precious, Jesus is precious...we must not continuously expose ourselves to people violently opposed to the gospel."
    No need to reply, you have chosen your path, now walk it to the end. You chose hopeless end I choose endless hope.

    John 15:18-19"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."
    Not every fool is an atheist, but every atheist IS A FOOL.
    Thank you for always proving.
    ”you can lead an atheist to evidence, but to can't make them think.”
    Ok atheiest keep your failed so called "logic" your sinking foundation a short, tragic road. Drive hard you're almost out of time.

    1. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      To take a page out of Jack's book - YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH,  You need to get Lucifer out from up your back passage, it's blocking your ability to have intelligence. Now go find another forum to entertain your little mind.  You're an insult to humanity.

  45. Jewels profile image81
    Jewelsposted 7 years ago

    We have the ability to reason.  It's questionable however, that the ability to reason is in our best interests considering the state of the union.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What is to be expected of individuals who try to force grouped belief rather than accepting individual belief?

      1. Jewels profile image81
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Grazing sheep - an unconscious awareness of the actions of the whole and a blind faith in it.  Read about memes.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for posting. I like the memes idea. The part I still don't understand is how the "memes" evolve so rapidly and transfer from human to human while not coming close in other animal abilities to transfer information. If human relayed memes to chimps, why can chimps not relay the memes to other chimps. This is the part I don't get. Why are we so advanced in learning/teaching compared to other animal life. Are we favored in the meme gene pool?

          1. Jewels profile image81
            Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            We have a different understanding of memes.  I was referring to the incumbents of memes not being conscious of their surroundings, ie don't think to question anything.  There are family memes, corporate memes, religious memes, even the meme of the army.  A meme primarily is where you think you have a separate consciousness but are unaware of the undercurrents or uppercurrents that are holding it together; before you know it you are following the rules you didn't know it had.  Like to obey certain rules without realizing there are rules.  Like a mafia code - 'the family.' 

            I can see how the influence of a family meme could be passed on through generations.  I find this fascinating to see similarities in character traits passed down.  Although this is not a science, I am using astrological traits within my family, including parents and grandparents to see similarities.  And there are.

            Again I think you have to compare apples with apples and not oranges because abilities are transferred in animals and the evolution of animals is to ensure survival of the species.  Human intelligence is different to animal intelligence but we do similar things to survive.  I think procreation and hunting and gathering is what we have in common more than anything.

            There is work on the model of subtle bodies, whereby the etheric body is understood to be that which holds intelligence which could explain the genetic transfer of abilities.  It's a massive topic.  But it does take a more biological and organic approach and a less intellectual or conscious based or thought based approach.  Thanks for making me think here.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for adding Jewels. Good Conversation. I liked when you were talking about following actions of others without being conscious of what or why you are following it. It's almost robotic in a sense.

              lol @ the apples and oranges. I want both! lol

              Let's say both humans and the sheep are grazing in the field. All are grazing together sharing the same memes. All of a sudden "1" human leaves the field. How could this 1 human memes differ from the rest of the life grazing in the field? What would trigger the 1 human to make a different choice?

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this
              2. Jewels profile image81
                Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The desire to want more than grass and sex. And where does the desire come from you ask and why are we dissatisfied with only grass and sex?  Not enough stimulus?  But why do we need more stimulation?  You'll not get a rational answer from me.  You can find out how but not why.  I know that we are wired differently metaphysically which is difficult to relay in a forum.  Science has to catch up.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Maybe it takes an irrational answer/idea to lead to the answer of an unknown idea or question. Afterall, when memes was first termed, many probably thought it was an irrational explanation. Yet, many have likely used the memes idea in science.

                  Lets say the memes do exist. Genes in an energy form, correct? How would physical evolution explain the transfer of memes from generation to generation in only humans?

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    This is fascinating. Almost like watching the birth of a new religion. Irrational answers are always the best ones for the unanswerable. We almost have enough for the first book.

                    "1,a) In the beginning *insert deity's name here*. created the universe, paying special attention to the earth, where He/She was planning the final culmination of evolution - Us.

                    2,b) Using Memes, a little known scientific method of transferring information with energy, *insert diety's name here* made Us self-aware,"

                    And so on.......

                    What we need is a Name though. God and the Flying Spaghetti Monster are already taken. wink

      2. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ... and in varying degrees we as humans act out of "the human condition" when we choose a belief. Fear is behind much emotion, and fear drives the subconscious to inventions and creative escapes that are in reality only substantiation for the chosen belief.
        We need to move well past religion.
        Science having already discovered the "death trigger" last year, is open to discover much about life and meaning of existence.
        Along with DNA research we can learn quickly through these relatively new established pathways to knowledge that will inform, not pacify.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for adding Earnest. Agreed that fear is the basis for the majority of belief. The death trigger is pretty interesting. I don't know if I found the right idea that you were talking about. The information I found was talking about a drug that could block thoughts from entering the brain that tell cells to die. Is that right?

    2. glendoncaba profile image81
      glendoncabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      smile

  46. Eaglekiwi profile image77
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    We can train our own minds ,and an animal cannot.

    He works on reflexes or instinct alone. smile

  47. Randy Godwin profile image94
    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago

    I watched a television documentary a few years ago in which female chimpanzees, who were in a group headed by a dominant male, would sneak off and mate with another male outside of the group.  They would mate in secrecy as if they knew they were doing wrong.  These actions indicates consciousness of guilt by the chimps very similar to human behavior.

    The arrogance of human to think they are the only creatures with self awareness.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I guess I have an almost irrational belief in communicating with animals! Partly through loving their abilities. Throughout my life my dogs have certainly known how I was feeling long before humans did.

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I can agree that other life has a conscious, although no where close to the complexity of the human conscious in my belief. My question is, could the chimps teach their conscious to the other chimps? I wouldn't think so.

  48. glendoncaba profile image81
    glendoncabaposted 7 years ago

    I'm writing a new hub on uncertainty reduction theory in internet communication for the hub challenge.  You guys are giving me grist for the mill.

  49. mobilephone guide profile image61
    mobilephone guideposted 7 years ago

    really, what would you lose if you "believe" in something? your intellect? are you dumb if you believe in religion? no, it's what you do that matters.

    religion or not, belief or not. atheists claim science as absolute. theists claim the bible or the word of god is absolute. it's all the same.

    imo, don't care and don't be labeled.

    religion/atheism is not for everyone.

    religion gives you a peace of mind. a purpose. physiologically, it doesn't matter.
    psychologically, it is helpful. some people just can't handle and can't accept what kind of s**t they are into, thus it is much better and productive if they think positively(with religion).

    “Take the life-lie away from the average man and you take away his life.”
    — Henrik Ibsen (The Wild Duck)

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Very enlightened statement. Thank You for adding.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, very enlightened. An irrational belief cannot possibly cause any harm:

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Does 1 = all? I'm sure there are atheist that have killed before for not believing in wrong. This does not make all guilty.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I never said 1 = all. I was just pointing out one instance where an irrational belief that praying to god was the answer instead of proper medical care caused the death of a young girl.

            Although, as I mentioned in my infamous evolution vs creation hub, an irrational belief in religion and god, often compromises one's ability to make rational decisions.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              What if one believes in religion and lives a good life, helping others, doing good deeds, would the belief still be irrational if it made the person live rational? I agree that a "belief closed to debate" is irrational. I also agree that belief is dangerous when a person sacrifices their individualism to believe another.

              I see it rational if someone has a belief, even when I don't agree, as long as that persons belief doesn't intrude anothers. If someone wants to believe a unicorn is their guardian angel and it gives them faith to live and love others, more power to them.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                We obviously have different ideas about what "rational" means. I do agree people can believe whatever they like as long as it does not interfere with any one else or do any damage. But belief in a god is necessarily closed to debate. It is not possible to debate with some one because they are closed to the idea that they are wrong because it is impossible to prove a negative. It also requires "giving up one's life (or money) for god," in most religions.

                Just look through any of the religion threads to see how any debate goes. smile

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I will admit, one reason I like to post an "Atheism Topic" in the thread, it is to get a science, theory , individual ideas. I do not like seeing bible quotes because I do not believe the bible as divine. I see truth when I read the bible as mans word. I can interpret what I read, I do not need a preacher to teach me what I read. What I read shows mans error, nothing divine.
                  As far as religion having bad intent, some do, not all. Without people having something to believe in other than reality, what kind of chaos would there be? I think there would be more. Not all, but some need the security of knowing the unknown to live at peace.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree with you there. But - let us for argument's sake, take those people who believe it is the word of a god and all true.

                    Their ability to make a rational decision is compromised. As an example - all the people who have decided that dinosaurs were on the earth at the same time as men. If that is what they believe - how can the now make rational decisions about anything else? When the call to fight god's war comes, they must follow. Read any history book.



                    I think there would be less. Our culture suggests this idea. Encourages it even. "You need saving." "You are going to hell if you do not believe." "Life is not worth living unless there is a purpose."  Spreading and evolving using memes. wink

                    And I think you meant Dawkins not Darwin when you mentioned them last time.

            2. glendoncaba profile image81
              glendoncabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              True science and faith can go together.

              Science and religion have been married to great success of humanity.

              Ben Carson the world famous scientist who performed many remarkable surgeries including separation of siamese twins, is a bible believing christian.  Yes a Seventh-day Adventist too.
              Google him and read his books.

        2. mobilephone guide profile image61
          mobilephone guideposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          let's not clump all religious people in the same category shall we? a sick mind is sick, no matter what he believes in. a crime is a crime, let's not put guilt and prejudice into it and easily point fingers just because he belonged to a group of people.

          if a person cannot think outside his conditioning, there's no help for him.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I did not clump all religious people in the same category. I was just pointing out one current example of damage done by holding certain irrational beliefs. Human history is littered with such examples. I pointed him out because he chose to pray to god instead of seeking medical attention for his daughter and was a good example to counter your claims. I could probably find millions of such examples if I chose to.

            I understand why people choose to believe in religions. That is what they are for. "Be happy with your lot, because it will all be better after you die." wink

  50. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    Hi glendoncaba ! Earlier you put me in the same bag as mark knowles. Even I agree in almost all that he says, I though that was a tough one. Right ?. well. if I was laughing it's because I think this kind of argument s are pointless and silly. You are not going to convince me about your Jesus, I'm not going to convince you about my rational atheism.  And anyway, your comments ( 'your' meaning religious people in this forum) about us being sinful and doomed to eternal hell or saying that you are praying for us, poor sinners  that have to be saved, aren't they irrespectful as well?
    We are human beings with brains, just like you. For my part i must say I respect all religions, and I come from a christian fasmily ,so I know what you feel. This said, my point of view is, as an atheist said once : ' I'm an atheist, thank God !' lol I leave you and God bless you if he exists smile

 
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