I'm just going off a couple of biblical refrences. In the begining of Job, God tells him "Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee..." Job 1:5
Also Paul said "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate..." Rom 8: 29
Neither of those verses suggest the soul's premortal existence. Of course God, not being subject to the constraints of time, knew us "before" any part of us, body or soul, ever existed.
Exactly Valerie. Just because God knew that we were going to be conceived when we were does not mean our soul pre-existed.
I believe that there are many things about the immortal potential of the human spirit that we have a hard time grasping. It seems to me that if we are to eventually join God in his existance inside and outside of this spectrum of time, that it would be equally logical to conclude that our souls existed before we were born. In fact it is reasonable to say that our inteligence was never created, because it always existed.
How then would it be possible to live continuously without end if there was a begining?
What we think is eternity is not.It had a begining and will have an end. But it's so vast ,that we can't perceive the end
I believe, that it is one half of our spirit, that lives on, continuously, through what we leave behind in others that we touch. Be it, family, co-workers, friends, strangers, this is our emotional side of our spirit. Our other half of our spirit, the intelligent half that has always existed, will return back to were it came from. Our body that houses both will fall away (or be buried) and it will be no more. Any thoughts to this idea?
What a cool concept! I think that when we influence those around us, positively or negatively (but hopefully positively), the energy that is generated is exponential. I don't think it so much as removes itself from ourselves and places itself on others, as it forms a bond or link that adds to both the influencer and the influenced. I think, in that way, both parties become influenced, and their spirits grow and change.
LoL: I'm laughing because I see your excitement and that is wonderful. You look to me to be a searching soul, an excited searching soul. Which is great, never stop searching, keeping asking questions, do the deductions, of what others say, until clarity comes. I believe, that others have a huge impact in our lives in a negative or positive way. I believe that, when children are small, they have no understanding to why some folks, are so mean one day, and pleasant the next. Folks are always contradicting themselves. So most children stay out of the way. But as they grow, say into their teen years, then things begin to click, and make a little more sense, but if you are saying does depression or manic depression, rub off to the next generation, it could, and I am sure it happens more often then we know. But I have to say that each positive and negative word, forms us into what we can become. But ultimately in the end it is our choice, of how we want to be formed. What do you think?
I don't believe in a soul spliting in half. I think that believing in remainig in the loved ones is utopia ,an idealism, fear of not being any more
This is fairly close to what i believe. I would say that the spirit is incomplete without the body, therefore there needs be an eventual reuniting of body and spirit through divine providence. I have to include an outside influence because otherwise we would be able to to presently divide and reunite the two upon our own discourse.
Oh I see, I believe it is a matter of choice whether you want to be regenerated, made new. See our one half of our spirit, lies dormant, until we decide we want to be alive, to what is now or to stay the course we are on. Jesus said that he came to give them life now. to the fullest. What do you think?
Well I think that given the choice, everyone would want to be resurected or regenerated. I think it would only be a natural instinct. But I think that everyone will ultimately be happy with their chosen destination.
Agree 100%. I believe that he wants us to be happy with the choice we make period.
This is such a fascinating discussion! I love hearing a religious concept discussed from a variety of faiths and philosophies...
I agree. I think that if/when we are in a sate to determine whether to be reborn (or resurrected, whatever you prefer), we will ultimately choose whatever will be most beneficial to us and to all sentient beings. To go back to Buddhism though, what's interesting is that the "goal" (and I put in in "" because Buddhists will say that one shouldn't be goal-minded in Buddhism, but rather do it for the purpose of Buddhism...) is to finally become so enlightened that one is freed from the cycle of rebirth. I think life is great and all, but it is intriguing to consider the ways in which we could (in a higher state of mind) eventually help our fellow beings from a higher, un-earthly plane.
I like the Buddhism wisdom in not being goal minded, for it squishes, out your creative force. I have desires, but no goals.
let me share a quote with you;
"We consider that God has created man with a mind capable of instruction, and a faculty which may be enlarged in proportion to the heed and diligence given to the light communicated from heaven to the intellect; and that the nearer a man approaches perfection, the clearer are his views, and the greater his enjoyments , till he has overcome the evils of his life and lost every desire for sin; and like the ancients, arrives at a point where he is wrapped up in the power and glory of his maker, and is caught up to dwell with him. But we consider that this is a station to which no man has ever arrived in a single moment." - Smith
This is a nice quote.
"to the light communicated from heaven to the intellect."
But we consider that this is a station to which no man has ever arrived in a single moment." - Smith
But man does reach that station with time.
"When we finally come to our senses we never return to the material world this painful playground we mistakenly call home" Krishna
I believe in the immortality of the soul in a sense... I wouldn't necessarily call myself a full-fledged Buddhist, but I do believe in the cycle of samsara, or "rebirth" of the soul as a continual, ever evolving state.
it's continual, I'm not sure about evolving though. And it's 'for ever ' to some extent. I believe in and end and then ...who knows. Another beginning maybe ?
Let's see if I can remember the way I've heard it described by a Buddhist monk... Basically, according to Tibetan Buddhism (and please, anyone correct me if I mess this up), while the soul or whatever you want to call it--our "essence," I suppose, is moved and placed in different bodies with the advent of a new life (if you believe in the cycle of rebirth), our essence changes just as much as the change in appearance of our "new" selves. In fact, if I remember correctly, it was said that when considering these new bodies or forms in which we are born into, we can be misled into to thinking that we change at concrete time, in set increments. Rather, the changing and evolving essence is a continuum of change, not a set of steps or defined levels that are dependent on each stage of rebirth.. Though of course, I would imagine, each stage of rebirth would influence it a lot too. I hope that wasn't too confusing! I'm still trying to grasp it myself!
I can't help you, as I'm an Atheist. Don't believe in any God who punishes and rewards
You know, you can still be atheist and believe in Buddhist principals... At least, I THINK you can. To an extent. I don't believe in a God really (and nor do Buddhists). But I suppose everything gets a little hairy once you start to believe in karmic influence and the whole nirvana/enlightenment thing... Thoughts?
You keep coming back in a body which suites you to carry out your desires.When you have no desires left then you don't come back.
But the last stage is to become a Buddha and break this cycle of birth and death.
I'm in a Blank State at the moment Can't think, I've been thinking all day long Need a break . Will come to you later
Hi. The Buddhist description answers the first question ... sort of. To begin with, they don't talk about spirit but what they call mind --not as a preexistent essence but a beginingless continuum that constantly arises from its previous moment. The first moment of mind of a newly conceived baby comes from the last moment of mind of a previous life.
About choosing a life ... well, most beings do not choose anything, they are "swept by the winds of karma and mental afflictions" to subsequent lives. Now, once a being has gone far enough in the path of love and compassion he/she acquires the capacity of starting coming back on purpose, out of its own decision and vows of helping all sentient beings without exception, even if it has to be one by one, for unaccountable centuries. A person with that determination can choose the circumstances of any given life, only acquired with the goal of helping beings.
Yes, I believe in rebirth.One has to take rebirths as long as one does not attend salvation. It is mandatory for all mundane souls.
Thanks for a good discussion started.
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