Honest question here !
Do any of you believe you have a spirit ?
If so, how do you prove it really exists ?
Or what about your soul ?
How do you prove it exists ?
Cannot prove it ,its too personal an experience.
I don't need to prove it.
Why do you need my proof?
I am awed to make you smile... so self- evident.
Everyone who has a spirit or soul-- please enjoy the awesome gift with reverent wonder --without questioning it to death.
I do not personally need proof and did not ask the question for my own sake. I am sorry you assumed I did not believe. I DO!
I asked it because people who do not believe in God always want physical proof. So I am asking them to prove they have a spirit and soul.
God is spirit and has a soul.
But if they expect us to prove He exists, then I ask them to prove they have existance outside of just a body.
Is that not fair to do? Ask them for proof?
Shaul, I did not assume that you did not believe.
Asking them to "prove" something drives them away from belief or faith which does not need physical proof.
Everyone who questions honestly, finds spiritual proof.
Even St. Thomas, who doubted honestly, was given proof.
I was doing them a service actually because if they cannot prove they have one or the other, then they have to ask themselves....
"why do we ask for proof from people who believe in God who cannot be seen?"
I am just using their logic is all
More importantly - why is it so important that you get other people to believe in your invisible super being that there cannot be any proof for because it does not exist?
And lets face it, dead dog guy - you are not exactly the most honest person are you?
I have no concern for trying to "get you to believe" Mark, you make up your own mind. I cannot "make" anyone do anything.
Did you have an answer to the topic question?
Yes - I have an answer. You are not asking an honest question.
And no - there is no such thing as "spirit" or "soul."
Anyone who uses them is merely trying to make an argument that if anyone believes there is - then surely they must also believe in the invisible super being.
Quite honestly, your behavior here is so deceptive I am further persuaded that your god does not exist. And am really curious as to why you are so desperate to get other people to believe.
Where is the dead dog?
You say in a very matter of fact way "And no - there is no such thing as "spirit" or "soul."
So prove it Mark.
You ask us for proof of a lot of stuff.....now you do it Mark.
The burden of proof lies at your doorstep. And I am not asking you for proof, merely observing that you do not have any and that the burden of proof is yours.
Can you see love?
Can you see emotions?
Can you see the wind?
Many of your "friends" believe in the spirit and soul.
Why don't you go ask them to "prove it" to you?
Or are you afraid to do it? If not, go ask them Mark.
I do not have to prove anything to you and I DO NOT care if you believe anything I do at all Mark. I really do not. Ain't my business man.
Make your own bed and lay in it. No big deal to me.
Love= electro-chemical reactions beginning in the hypothalamus.
emotions= same thing, also coming from the amygdala in the brain
wind= energy, gases
All are measurable.
I did not aske if you can measure it.
Can you see the wind?
Can you see a spirit?
It is the exact same word in plenty of languages.
I am not talking about physical love either, not chemicals.
I'm still laughing at the sock puppet even mentioning love! That would be a blind ally!
All can be proven to exist, unlike a "soul" or "spirit", though. Which is what you're really getting at, right? ALL love involves chemicals. What kind of love are you talking about then?
One that is beyond ourselves.
Take over where we leave off so to speak. A spiritual love, love beyond a mothers love, but if you do not believe in a soul or spirit, then this is pointless.
It is strange that you are closed to something you cannot understand and cannot prove soul and spirit do not exist.
I am not the only one who disagrees with you either.
If you don't care (and I love the passive/aggressive make your own bed thing - very nice) - why are you trying so hard to convince me that god must exist because I can't see the wind?
This all amounts to "please believe what I believe. Pleeeeze!"
You believe what you will Mark...you are trying to convince me that I should not believe...and you never will...so shine it on dude.
I do not have to prove to you what I know.
If I told you Messiah appeared to me, you would want proof to.
Guess you had to be there.
I got my proof.
It's a fair reasoning-- but why use the 'unfair' logic of people you deem to be wrong?
A wise teacher might advise you to use a better tactics if you must argue.
Getting them to "look" at their own line of logic and reasoning is all that this is about.
No ill will here.
They question believers, so they can answer the same question I would think.
Messiah often reasoned with doubters by asking questions.
Yes... .. the art is in asking a pertinent question at the right time, and in when knowing when to stop and let them think.
Jesus didn't do a lot of back and forth.
I'm doing too much and will retire to the wilderness to fast awhile
That is my point...you said it well.....
"please enjoy the awesome gift with reverent wonder --without questioning it to death"
Myself and many others do enjoy the gift of God towards us and do not question it to death.
It is evident to us who belive with out seeing "proof".....although I think what I see in creation is proof.
So if they believe they have a spirit and soul that cannot be seen, why cannot they understand us instead of beating to death the whole "give me proof of God!!!"
The soul is easy to see, it's the sheath you wear. It is that which animates your body, the personality traits that you use. The Spirit is the essence of you beyond the physical realms. It's transpersonal and consequently not up for viewing.
I believe a a very strong case can be made for spirit and soul outside religious belief, which in my view is where they belong!
To put it simply, both spirit and soul manifest though love! That is not the proof, but to some it is self evident
I would actually be very interested to see a non-religious case for the existence of the soul, mainly because it is rather refreshing to see where religious people and atheists can agree.
I suppose it depends upon your definition of "soul". I'd like to hear Earnest's...
Sorry, I don't believe I have a soul. I am a material being. For me, spirit and soul are creations of man's brain.
Oh I see.
Well what do you think happens when you die?
What about your emotions, your mind, intuition, volition?
All the things you cannot see?
Poof! All gone. The things you mention are merely functions of our brain, inherited and passed along from our ancestors. Having these qualities (intuition, volition, and emotions) is adaptationally advantageous. Keeps us safe from predators, able to be creative food seekers, alarms us to danger, keeps us breeding.
That does not have to mean they do not exist there in some way.
As would I. I think most people's definition of "soul" is about the same or similar enough. Where even a lot of religions differ is not on the definition of the soul, but on the specifics of its nature, how and when it comes to reside within a body, et cetera.
Yes, better stated. That's why I'm curious about Earnest's thoughts.
For what's is worth wordscribe, I've just started a series on astrology that incorporates a spiritual essence. It is not your mainstream astrology, you already know I'm out of the box, but not an idiot!!LOL. The Soul as I describe it, is the personality and character traits that we use to animate the body. My standpoint on astrology is as a language to show this. Bare in mind I'm not talking about horoscopes here.
I have a soul.
My soul is better than your soul, in fact it could kick your soul's ass with one hand metaphorically tied behind it's spiritual back.
I am amazed that even you would be naive enough to name this thread "an honest question," The true title is
"A loaded question" You would not know truth if you fell over it! This is yet another of your lies, while you provide nothing but fluff.
In what way was it dishonest?
Please tell me / us.
Any person who does not see the load is not looking or does not read the english language! Your intro loads the question if you want me to spell it out for you, and your comments load the question as well.
Oh, Earnest. I know what you're thinking, but I find this all innocuous. In fact, I appreciate the inquiry as he is looking for proof. It's true, I'm always looking for proof as an atheist.
Proof defies faith-- Faith defies proof. The debate will not end. To some Faith is proof enough and they should stop trying to convince those who do not have it. Goodnight.
Not today though. I am working believe it or not, and have just hit another deadline! No time to find what bolted the soul and spirit to my self, or even a definition of self that is inclusive. The theories that went in to understanding the soul and spirit with self is complex indeed.
I will say that there is a lot more to "self" than even words can deal with. In an explanation about the feeling function one suddenly finds words near useless!
Without the German language it is even harder to understand or explain because English misses some feeling related words.
The analogies of self are very difficult too and many great books have been written on the subject and that which supports it.
I believe art alone proves humans have a Spirit. Art, music, literature (fiction) serve no real practical purpose. It all comes from are need to create. Maybe humans have a creative s
spirit that does not live on after death, but this "spirit" carries on and inspires the next generation. Well, it is obvious to me now that I believe in Muses..lol
Well I know that when I hear music inside and then compose it and it touches peoples lives, I did not create it out of my mere physical body, it is to deep for that.
When I am awoken at 3am with music going on in my soul that I have never heard before and must write it down even though I have to go to work at 6am, that is for sure happening in the realm of the spirit.
They Will . . . Or maybe they won't.
It is not up to you or me.
If they see something positive or helpful in your life or mine that leads them in one direction or another, so be it.
If they are angered or discouraged or outraged by something we do, then we may be diminished by not showing a spirit-filled influence, or they may lose a chance to come closer to peace.
So be it.
"And am really curious as to why you are so desperate to get other people to believe. "
I do not care if you believe at all Mark!
I leave it up to you, no big deal to me, you keep bringing it up Mark.
Trying to convince me I do this when I do NOT care at all what you do Mark.
Now you are lying again. More proof that your religion is worthless. Thanks.
The burden of proof is on you, Mark is right about that. I've used this argument before, and I'll use it again...
If I tell you I have a VERY hungry pink unicorn that needs food and I ask you to please run to the store to get it food, the burden of proof in on ME to show you this pink unicorn exists. Does it not? If I were unable to prove this assertion about the unicorn, you as a reasonable person would reject its existence as one that's preposterous. The one making the claim for such a proposition is the one that must provide the proof. Simple as that.
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