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Earnest, Mark and Tantrum are god, what do they do?

  1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
    quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago

    How would our world be?

    1. My Friend Shiyloh profile image61
      My Friend Shiylohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Love ? big_smile

    2. Paraglider profile image88
      Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And your point is?

    3. darkside profile image80
      darksideposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Can it be worse than it is now?

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          At least there wouldn't be birth deformities, mental disabilities, misery, illness and above all you wouldn't have to give anything in return. No adoration, no churches. and nooo Hell !!! big_smile

    4. Tom Cornett profile image57
      Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't care as long as we still had sex, beer and football!  smile

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You got it ! lol

    5. andromida profile image73
      andromidaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      All of them would be doing the same as they are doing now.At least we would get more gods, who loves to write hubs.

    6. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "The knigdom of god is within" Jesus
      Do you doubt Jesus words?

      1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
        quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No.

        NOT the reason I posted the topic.

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry smile Thats such a cute image smile

          1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
            quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Just trying to give them a chance to tell us all...
            "the world acording to the 3"

    7. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This is an open ended question you see Earnest, Mark and Tantrum could not be God , God is infinite and man is not is this the Christian thing to do? God is not mocked Galatians 6:7-8 Be not decieved God is not mocked for whatever a man or women sow they shall also reap. Here is a poem that I have tucked away on the computer that was sent to me, it is called "Another Man's Shoes"


      I met a man walking, on a long dusty road;

      he seemed to be burdened, with life's heavy load.

      His hair was kind of shaggy, he'd been sleeping in his clothes;

      his shoes were old and weathered, not pretty, heaven knows.

      I said, "hello Sir, how do you do";

      he looked at me and said, "how'd do".

      I said, "Where are you going, on this hot sunny day";

      he said, "I'm looking for heaven, and leave here I pray".

      I said, "Come on now, don't be a fool";

      he said, "This world is just too cruel".

      I said, "Please explain your reasons to die;

      before you leave this world and say good-by".

      Then he said, "I'll tell you and maybe you'll see;

      but promise me that you won't judge me".

      Promise me that you won't condemn;

      cause you just don't know, the condition I'm in.

      You won't know me, or understand my blues;

      until you have walked awhile in my shoes.

      Until you have read every line in my face;

      until you have stood awhile in my place.

      You won't know me, until you have carried my load;

      and struggled along this old dusty road.

      Until you have felt, my pain and rejection;

      and felt my sorrow, and felt my affliction.

      He said, "I was born into dire poverty;

      as rough a life, as ever can be".

      My dad ran away, and my mother was cruel;

      and everyone else, called me the fool.

      I wandered the streets, when I was only nine;

      getting into trouble and wasting my time.

      I've been in many jails, throughout the years;

      had a lot of heartache, shed a lot of tears.

      I've felt cold eyes, staring at me;

      by upper class people, and high society.

      I've met people who won't, give me the time of day;

      who went into a big fine church, and kneeled down to pray.

      I've been cheated out of money, by everyone I've known;

      I've been hated and despised, down to the bone.

      I've felt hatred as cold, as an ice house floor;

      from total strangers, that never met me before.

      My whole life has been, filled with pain;

      sometimes I wonder, if I'm insane.

      But if I am, out of my mind;

      why am I hated, most of the time.

      Don't people have compassion on the mentally ill;

      or be concerned, as to how do they feel.

      Don't misunderstand me, I've done wrong too;

      I'm not perfect, but neither are you.

      People have tricked me, and slandered my name;

      and talked behind my back, then smiled just the same.

      I'm weary and tired, of life's heavy load;

      not too many more days, will I walk this old road.

      By my outward appearance, I know I'm not much;

      But how can you judge me, by clothes and the such?

      If anyone loved me, or cared at all;

      they'd give me some help, this burden to haul.

      Only God Loves me, this I believe;

      from this whole world, nothing I receive.

      If I were rich, and had plenty of money;

      everyone would adore me, and call me honey.

      But I am quite poor, from my presence they flee;

      I've heard their cruel whispers, and slanders of me.

      He now had stopped speaking, and he looked at my face;

      I saw a tear on his cheek, leaving it's trace.

      I was speechless and astounded, I spoke not a word;

      he slowly turned, and walked down that old road.

      I stood there just thinking, of the man I had met;

      and suddenly I loved him, my eyes were then wet.

      Another human being, I'll never judge nor condemn;

      cause he may have walked, where I've never been.

      How can I judge or condemn any man?;

      until in his shoes, I walk and I stand


      Can you see God's love in this? So you see Earnest, Mark and Tantrum are human beings with hearts, minds, thoughts and there beliefs, we have not walked in there shoes nor have experienced there lives so we should not condemn them nor pillage them with stones that is not what Jesus would do. sad

  2. GeneralHowitzer profile image64
    GeneralHowitzerposted 7 years ago

    no comments...

    hi ernest how you do pal...

  3. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    Like God, if this world I could control
    Eliminating the world would be my role
    I would create the world anew, whole
    Such that the free soul would attain desired goal.

    Omar Khayyam

  4. profile image0
    ryankettposted 7 years ago

    If Earnest, Mark and Tantrum were god..... not that there can be a god....

    Then they would probably press 'delete' on the religion forum.

    The world would be fantastic, and hubpages would be about hubs again.

    1. GeneralHowitzer profile image64
      GeneralHowitzerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      now that's splendid reply hehehe nice one there ryan...

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes a splendid reply for represors

        this is my answer for you as well:


        Never !! I would never delete anything! Freedom is the first and last commandment.  I think everybody has the right to post. And hubpages is about hubs. There are almost 500.000 of them !!
          big_smile

        1. atomswifey profile image69
          atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Satan fell because of pride thinking he knew better than God who created him.
          Man chose to believe Satan over the God who created him and look at what happened as a result...All those things which you mentioned before came to be in this world:
          pain
          suffering
          death
          violence
          sickness
          disease
          And yet man still, having FREEDOM he or she still chooses to defy God, to think he himself wiser than the creator.

          Man is falible where God is not. Man is sinful where God is not. Man thinking himself to be God when he is not could not possibly understand all of things which God has planned. Thus, God said it best
          "professing themselves wise, they became as fools."

          God has given all of us a choice to choose where we want to be in the end.
          And how can anyone being not perfect in ALL knowledge think himself to be?
          Because of pride.
          Which again, is what caused all the mess in the first place.

          So, to think of any man or woman, sinful, lacking perfection, being a good and just, merciful and gracious, loving and forgiving God, is just ridiculous to even contemplate.

          1. blue dog profile image80
            blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            is this part of your god's plan: 
            http://www.aztlan.net/du_deformed_iraqi_babies.htm

            make sure that, while you say your prayer this sunday morning, your god is informed on this godly occurrence.

            1. atomswifey profile image69
              atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              God is aware of ALL things.
              Whether they be good or bad, evil or not.
              It is SIN, the defiance of God, the defiance against that which is good that brings all this kind of suffering upon the world.

              God allows for us to see what choices we have. Do we stay in sin and suffer the ills of it, or do we believe in Him and His promise to be free from it??

              Will God one day restore this earth to make it new free from sin the results from it? Yes.

              God made that way through Christ that we should see that day come. That not only should see that day come but be a part of it. To live in it for all of eternity.
              A great reward is given only for a great service or deed. But God made a way for man to recieve this reward through faith in His son. One would think it would be an easy enough decision, yet here we are.

              Let me ask you something
              You show there something so horrible right? So, evil, so, ghastly, so, sinful.
              Think about it.
              And why would anyone want to serve a world full of all of that?
              Why would anyone want to live in world full of all of that?

              God's point exactly!

              1. blue dog profile image80
                blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                based on your comments, it's rather obvious who needs to spend a bit more time thinking "about it" and a whole lot less time preaching about it.  i'll go back to your comment: "we still choose to live a life full of it."

                pure, 100% unadulterated bullsh-t.

                1. Paraglider profile image88
                  Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Bluedog - that's a bit harsh. We've already established that Atomswifey is trying to be funny! lol

                  1. tantrum profile image59
                    tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      and she's trying HARD! lol

            2. Make  Money profile image73
              Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              This is truly disgusting.  But as we can read from the title of the web page, God is not the author of this horor.

              1. Daniel Carter profile image91
                Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                God gets a lot of credit for a lot of things people do/say. The math is all wrong.

          2. Paraglider profile image88
            Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Oh good - the thread was needing a shot of humour to brighten it up wink

            1. atomswifey profile image69
              atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              smile
              My point being there that man brought on the bad
              God had already provided the perfectfully good
              Sin caused the corruption.
              Man fell as a result of sin.
              The result of sin: evil, bad, corruption, greed, illness etc etc etc

              God ensures a way out of all of that. I believe He shows us all the ways in which sin has corrupted, all the ugliness of what it is and what it does, so that we will turn away from it.

              UNfortunately, this is not the case. Regardless of all the ugliness, pain and suffering, death and evilness it brings on us, we still choose to live a life full of it.

              1. blue dog profile image80
                blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                it's almost a certainty that the deformed iraqi babies and their parents choose to live the life they currently find themselves in.

                1. atomswifey profile image69
                  atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Cetainly they do not.
                  But seeing that they do, would we all not want for the matter of sin which caused it to be done away with?

                  Can you not see where sin coming into this world brought on those disformaties? It brought on and with it all that is evil, all that is wrong?

                  You want to blame God for all the bad, when in fact, it it is not He who brought it into the world.
                  It was mans sin. The first disobedient act which caused it, and it is mans continued disobedience which breeds it further and keeps it here.

                  You being a disbeleiver are part of the problem. You cannot accept this however because you are deluded to the fact that you are above it. But you cannot be above it until you choose to accept the fact that you are a part of it in the first place.

                  This is all too overwhelming for you because you cannot possibly be held responsible for anything.
                  It is your continued pride, thinking you know better than God, believing him away, is believing all that is good away.
                  Which, if we then believe all that is good away, what are we left with?
                  All that is bad.

                  Having said that, I believe that one being a disbeliever, and or sinner can be good at times. We all regardless of faith can act good. We can behave good.
                  But it is only to the extent that we understand what it is good means to us personally, while here on earth.

                  For example as one pointed out in another post. Someones perception of what is good can be altered or flawed. Based on what they believe.
                  Like in Iran, women are stoned to death after ebing raped because of mans perception of what is good.

                  God is perfectly good.
                  His kingdom is perfectly good.
                  Man is neither perfect nor good.
                  Mans kingdom, this world, is neither perfect nor good.
                  It is rather a place which contains both good and evil.
                  God instructed man to not eat of what tree?
                  The knowledge of good and evil.
                  By acknowledging the evil man introduced it into the perfectly good garden.
                  God banished man and his sin out of the garden and into where?
                  The world.

                  Along with sin came all the negative, all the pain, all the suffering, vilolence, illnesses etc.
                  It was cause and condition of sin and mans taking part in all of that which brought everything that is not good into the world.

                  It is "easier" I suppose to live a life full of disbelief. Where there is no accountability to God for all of that. Where there is no responsibility to your creator.
                  No being accountable to just ones self is very easy.
                  Being responsible to ones self is also very easy.

                  One could then just dismiss God, His laws, His punishments and be free to live any life he or she wants or desires without of the burden of faith.
                  Without the burden that comes with accepting the fact that we do not know more than God.
                  Without the burden that we are guilty of breaking any of His laws and or commandments.
                  To then have the "knowledge" that it is not sin and or ourselves which cause all the pain and suffering, rather it is this ones whom we choose not believe in, fault for not stopping it?

                  But remember and make note of this:
                  Just because God has chosen not to put a stop to all sin as of yet, does not mean that He won't in the very near future.
                  And the question becomes very simple:
                  On that day when it comes, and it is coming
                  On which "side" will you be?
                  Will you then be on the side of yourself or God's?
                  Of sin's or of God's?

              2. Paraglider profile image88
                Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                And my point was - that is funny smile

    2. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Never !! I would never delete anything! Freedom is the first and last commandment.  I think everybody has the right to post. And hubpages is about hubs. There are almost 500.000 of them !! lol

    3. profile image0
      \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      i thought hub pages was about hubs ....... people only go in the forums if they choose to hundreds seem to chose not to

    4. Daniel Carter profile image91
      Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh for hell's sake.
      You mean they would be perceived as "good"?

      Which would imply that the religiosity of others here would be suddenly perceived as "bad"? (Because they argue like Pharisees and Saducees, which is SURELY what Jesus would do, right?)

  5. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    I hope you don't mind an honest opinion...

    Tantrum yes but not the other two.....


    In my opinion, i cannot understand why people who do not even believe in any form of religion would want to dominate the religious forums, and get so upset about peoples beliefs.....

    Earnesthub was extremely  rude to me yesterday in the forums, and Mark often jumps to wrong conclusions about a person..

    They may be good writers, and may have a lot to offer but i feel they are huge bullies

    Now the opinion i gave is not because of whether i am a believer or not... it is purely as i see there behavior on here.....

    PLEASE DON'T EVERYONE START TO GET ANGRY...... PLEASE I HATE IT

    1. tantrum profile image59
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Everybody has the right to post. If someone is rude to you, answer back or just leave it. Lots of people have been rude to me lol I can't care less

      1. profile image0
        \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        that is why you would possibly make a good leader, i am always stalking you round you find the nice hubs and always give good comments...... good you don't care hope you don't mind stalkers though

    2. Paraglider profile image88
      Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Brenda - you can't really do that you know, call people names then say don't get angry. Just don't call the names in the first place. That works.

      1. profile image0
        \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        is it calling someone a name if it is true, they do it all the time

        1. Paraglider profile image88
          Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          People always think that what they themselves say is true. Otherwise, why say it?

          1. profile image0
            \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            this thread is asking our opinion on these people, so i gave it.  I don't think they would actually disagree do you????

            WHERE ARE THEY ANY  WAY...... PRETTY sure they can defend themselves if they need to

      2. shamelabboush profile image72
        shamelabboushposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I think you're right, we shouldn't be rude, and discussions should be objective. We should never attack a hubber personally. We should deal with facts and opinions only.

    3. Bibowen profile image91
      Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Brenda. You nailed it. This is a point that I have made often. It's hysterical! Who are the main posters to the religious forum? That's right. The guys that bash it. They are the same ones that feign a disinterest in it. They are like the teenager with the crush on the girl, but pretending not to look.

      I don't mind that they think they're "above it all"; but I wish they'd stop telling us about it. Of course, if they stop, the entertainment value would decline. It makes the religion forum interesting. So, I'm all for it myself.

      You think they'd have better things to do besides spending their time registering their contempt for something they hate. But some people are that way. They don't love to love; they love to hate. There's no need to get upset about it. They deserve your pity, not your contempt.

  6. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    @ brenda scully

    I don't mind about anything, not even about being a good leader or not. I hate sheep-people , I hate flocks

    1. profile image0
      \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      being indepent minded is good eh....... you are very easy going does nothing make you angry

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        stupid remarks can't. But I get angry with other things, like ignorance. That puts me out of my mind. Falsehood also,, stabbing in the back, big lies...

  7. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    I thought this thread was for fun ????yikes This goes for atomswifey

  8. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    now what would our three god's do  to solve that one....

    1. Paraglider profile image88
      Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm pretty sure none of them would have whipped up a phoney war on Iraq.

      1. profile image0
        \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        these people do have a following that is for sure

  9. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Brenda,

    You know once I even took down a hub because you thought it was attacking your religion.  The hub was not even about you, but the bad experiences people have with the Jehovah's Witnesses.  The thing is on the Internet people can have different opinions than you, and that does not mean they are bullies.  You made me feel bad when you made certain comments on my hub, but I am not sure you realized this.  Not to single you out or anything, but I do not think you should call people bullies.

    1. profile image0
      \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      i did not ask to take that hub down........ i merely said one of the points you made was not true.  I actually enjoyed your hub..... the tactics that are used by certain people are bullying tactics ...... what amazes me is that the 2 people mentioned can easily defend themselves, as i can so why if they do not use bullying tactics don't they defend themselves...
      put the hub back up........... i know Jehovah's Witnesses are very unpopular and i know you did not enjoy being brought up one, but i don't see why you took the hub down because i said one of the facts you said was not  accurate, it actually wasn't accurate........

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I took it down months ago because honestly I was receiving way too many emails about it.  I do not even care about the subject anymore, and I feel better with it down.  Actually I know my facts were 100% accurate as I did much research on it, but that is besides the point.  I know you and earnest may have disagreements on religion, but he is really a nice guy.  Passionate about his stances, and he has a right to it, just as you do.

        1. profile image0
          \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I really do not go in the religious forums any more at all see no point at all......... Yesterday i was in the forum talking about alcohol and said i went to a.a. because my sister died because of alcoholism and left a young child..... to try to understand the illness.  Ernesthub decided to then put , "I did not know god botheres went to a.a." WHAT was that all about....... i am not really that active in my religion at the moment but i do believe in god........  i really can't fathom some reasoning out.......

          I can.t remember which point i felt was not accurate, but believe me there was one thing you said which definately was not true, but  on the whole of course you would have a good understanding of what the religion is about if you raised in it..... sorry for any upset i caused you at the time

          1. SweetiePie profile image83
            SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            AA actually can be a good thing for many recovering alcoholics.  People who are not big on religion may have a problem with it because they preach a "higher power," but it does definitely work for many who attend.  I think his comment is just directed towards his distaste to the higher power concepts, and he does have a right to feel that way.  I do not think he meant anything personal about your aunt.  By the way my sister's friend has attribute getting his life back together because of AA.  One time she gave him a ride to work, and she told me how much of a more positive person he is now.  Maybe write a hub sharing why AA can be a good thing in people's lives, that is what I would do smile.

            1. profile image0
              \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

               


              thanks for that, sometimes because we are not face to face in our conversations, offence can be taken when it is not meant..... are you still doing crafts

  10. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    And tantrums, and more tantrums, and more tantrums !!!   lol lol lol

    1. atomswifey profile image69
      atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And more of mans pride, more of mans pride and more of mans pride.

      Not willing to accept his own responsibility for his own actions!

      Not willing to place the blame for all that is evil on what is evil.
      SIN.

      Because to do that one must be willing to admit where one has been wrong. To admit that we being human, full of sin and not perfect in all that is perfect, we do not know better than God.

      To do that, we would have to admit that God is greater than ourselves.
      That for some, is just too much responsibility there. That is just too much humbleness for one to bear.

  11. Tom Cornett profile image57
    Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago

    Hey....do gods fart?

  12. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    you will have to the god's about that, i would not know

  13. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    I need to work on my crafts more smile.  I waste too much time in the forums lately lol.

  14. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    like wise......... need to get more stock in as well i am running out of card making materials

  15. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    I still have quite a bit, but I hate when I run out smile.

  16. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    Ireland is not the best place for bying such things, so i either go on internet or wait til i go to England ....... i am working again so will try to get local shop to stock the cards we make in nursing home, i have a few shops who take them all the time, how about you

  17. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    When I lived up in the mountains it was hard to find crafting supplies too.  Now I live next to Joann's Fabrics and Michael's, so I am pretty spoiled these days.  Wish I had more money to go there more often because I can buy a bit much at times smile.

    1. profile image0
      \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      DO YOU HAVE A SISSIX MACHINE

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I do not own one.  They are supposed to be fun though!  My friend Cherish has all those things.  You should visit her hubs on scrapbooking.

  18. blue dog profile image80
    blue dogposted 7 years ago

    "cetainly they do not.
    but seeing that they do..."

    it's all beginning to make sense.

  19. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    Atomswifey - you are the one without humility. You are the one who insists your view is Right. Straight question - do you think it is possible that you could be wrong? I'm not asking you to change your mind, merely to stop steamrollering everyone else. At bottom, it's rude, you know.

    1. atomswifey profile image69
      atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well in that rather, absolute question you asked me I would have to say, No. I do not believe any possibility to think that I might be wrong.
      Because to do that, I would be saying that theres a possibility that God is wrong or that He is not there, does not exist. And I know that He does.

      You know that he does, or atleast you should know that. God said that we will know through what He has created that He is there/does exist.
      We see through logical reasoning that God exists based on the fact that we exist. Has science been able to answer where a living cell came from? The first, that is? No. And they never, unless they choose to believe in a creator, will ever be able to answer that or any number of questions concerning creation.

      And as far as "steamrolling" othersw who oppose my views and or beliefs?
      I am not steamrolling, nor am I being rude in stating what I know to be true.
      Just as they state what they know to be true.

      I have not told anyone to believe in what it is I write or have written. I simply put it out there.

      lol
      I do not think its RUDE to tell people God loves them. I do not think it's rude to tell them what God says about disbelief. It is rather, out of caring that I do both.

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          From that so 'loving' Father, this so 'loving' daughter !

        1. atomswifey profile image69
          atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Can you demonstrate and or otherwise show where I have not been loving?
          And I know how you will answer, "Well, telling people they are going to hell is..."


          I did not say anyone is going to hell. I said that in their disbelief they are headed there.
          Again, only if they choose to stay in their disbelief.
          By pointing out the way to salvation from that is being loving, concerned, caring. I fail to see where You correlate that with being not loving.

      2. profile image0
        ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I dont think its rude that you tell people that god loves them, just so long as you dont think its rude when they tell you that they think its a load of crap.

        I dont think that its rude that you tell somebody what god says about disbelief, just so long as you dont think its rude when they again say that its a load of crap.

        And that appears to be the issue. A true believer will never change their stance about god, and a non-believer will not change their stance.

        If you are telling us that you believe in god and what he says, then thats fair enough - you are entitled to your beliefs and your opinions. But if an athiest or similar then tells you that their beliefs are different (e.g. "what a load of old crap") then you should surely have that same respect for their beliefs?

        Remember that although this is a religious forum, and you have issues with non-believers posting on here, your religion is not the only world religion and not the only religion represented on hubpages. You must respect their beliefs too.

        This is where I stand:- I dont believe in what Christians believe in, I dont believe in what Muslims believe in, I dont believe in what Sikhs believe in. I do believe what athiests believe in.

        This is where you stand:- You believe (in the christian sense), you dont believe in what muslims believe in, you dont believe in what sikhs believe in, you dont believe in what athiests believe (or do not believe) in.

        Thats 1 out of 4 things that I believe in, 3 out of 4 that I dont.

        Thats 1 out of 4 things that you believe in, 3 out of 4 that you dont.

        Its a draw. 1-1. And that is why these stupid debates (which start as humour before being hijacked by somebody that is offended) can never be won. I can never win, you can never win. Nobody can win, and when people start thinking that they can win, and that they are right, thats when the stupid pot shots start.

        I know that my argument isnt too articulate or coherent, but thats the only way that I know to describe the tensions on the religious forum.

        The only alternative is to have an 'Islam' forum, an 'Athiest' forum, an 'Agnostic' forum, a 'Christian' forum. And you know what? There would still be arguments in those forums. Christians believe in different things, Muslims believe in different things and so on.

        Nobodies opinion or belief is worth more than anothers. There can never be a winner. They are not ranked from 1-6 and we are not trump cards. Its not a game, its a fact, a fact that cannot be changed.

        And this is not just aimed at the person I have quoted, this is my response to everybody that wants to read and listen.

        Thank you for allowing me my 2 pence. My opinion is no greater than yours, it is equal to yours. Every single human life has the same value.

        1. profile image0
          \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Amen to all that especially the last line

        2. atomswifey profile image69
          atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with most of what you said there. Except for the fact that you laid out there that Nonbelievers will not change their stance.
          I myself was a nonbeliever once. As are most if not all Christians world wide.
          We were nonbelievers who came to believe.

          Plus, me thinking I am not being rude in telling of Gods love for them is not the same as someone telling me as you put it,
          "it's a load of crap!" I think anyone to say that like that, in that way I mean, is being rather rude.
          I did not say to anyone what they believe or what they do not believe is a "load of crap".

          I enjoy the debate, frankly. I think people should talk about faith, God, heaven, hell, different faiths, diversity etc. I think the more people talk about it the more people will come into the knowledge of what it all means etc.

          I think some forms of argument are a good thing. I am not ashamed of what I believe in. I am not about to hide it from anyone.
          I state the truth as I know it to be. If there those who disagree with it, so be it. I wipe the dust and move on. But for those who would elect to ask questions of me, or otherwise engage in the conversation with me, I will answer and also engage back.

          That is the whole point here in the forums isn't it?

          So then to be called out and accused of being rude, or otheriwse "spreading my garbage" etc. I could say the same of. But I do not as I realize there are those who do not share my views on here and the point of even having a forum is to discuss both sides or all sides of an issue.

          1. profile image0
            ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well "thats a load of crap" wasn't a quote, nobody has said that. This was just my way of talking, thats the way that I talk. But that can be replaced with "I dont believe a word that you are saying" which is quite essentially the same thing.

            And yes, of course non-believers can become believers. Just like believers can become non-believers. I was thinking short term rather than long term, as in...... a 2 day thread on a forum is not going to change somebodies religious beliefs..... and if it can, then I doubt that has happened very often.

            But yes, the whole point of a forum is to present two sides of an argument. That is exactly what my whole response was trying to say. I said that my opinion is equal to yours, and that we were all equal. You seem to have taken my response a little too personally, although I did start it with reference to your quote.... I feel that my statements were applicable to everybody, not just you. And, of course, it is just my 2pence. I believe that everybodies opinion is of equal value. And it seems as if you are torn between agreeing with me, and deciding that your opinion is actually still worth more because you believe.

            Anyway, I really dont think that my response could have been any more diplomatic. I stated quite clearly that every human life is equal, and that everybodies opinion is of equal importance, I cant see where any further "debate" needs to happen with regards to that from my personal point of view. Because that is my opinion, and thats the end of my 2 pence.

            1. glendoncaba profile image79
              glendoncabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You are a great writer so you know that you can and should be more respectful of people especially on spiritual matters.

      3. Paraglider profile image88
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Where I have bolded your text is where you have claimed to know my thoughts better than I know them myself. That is arrogance. Please get it into your head that I do not believe God exists. Yet, as a rationalist, I would certainly change my mind if I saw reasonable evidence, which does not include a book written by men. So far, I have seen none.

        You, on the other hand refuse to admit that your beliefs could be in error. Yours is the closed mind. Not mine. I think Omar Khayyam's philosophy, which I posted on another thread here, is far more appealing and convincing than yours, and would lead to a more peaceful and pleasant world.

  20. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    finding a way to disagree without being disagreeable is not always easy to do...... it is possible though i think

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You should try it them Brenda. You said I insulted you yesterday. Go back and read the post. I was replying to another hubber and you or your aunt were never involved. smile

      1. profile image0
        wordscribe41posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Brenda and Earnest.  Brenda, I can see where you were coming from taking offense.  However, in reality Earnest was directing the comment towards me as he quite accurately understands my belief there is no God.  I think (correct me if I'm wrong Earnest) he was simply making a statement about how my AA experience was infiltrated with God idealolgy, that it's inescapable even in a self-help setting.  Kinda like, oh no, Laura you just can't escape it, huh? Totally directed towards me as he and I share the same belief system.  Hope that makes sense.  Naturally, it's a delicate topic, especially in light of what happened with your sister.  I think we all come into these forums not knowing certain bits and pieces of each others lives...  But, clearly he was talking to me.  Does that make sense?  Hope you are both having an excellent day.

        As for my take on this thread, I think it's disrespectful towards all 3 gentlemen.  I wouldn't start a similar thread calling out individual hubbers whose belief system is different from mine.  That's my take on it, anyway.  I consider both Earnest and you, Brenda to be my virtual friends. 

        Hope this makes sense...

      2. profile image0
        \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        nobody mentioned my aunt.... it is my sister

        1. profile image0
          \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          who was the god botherer then????

  21. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    ryankett i see you call a spade a spade, i have read quite a lot of your work lately, and have enjoyed it very much and your interaction. Are you from the north of England

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Actually I from the 'East' of England. I do live up North though. I am a Northerner to those from London, and a Southerner from those from Leeds lol but I currently live about 20 miles east of Leeds, having just spent 3 of the last 4 years in Sheffield...... I am one of those people that has an affinity with both sets - despite being called a 'foreigner' by both. In fact, Im just one of those people that likes most people.... including the Irish wink.... my Nan had Irish parents...

      I did notice that you have read a few of my hubs, I have been awful lately at reading hubs and replying to others - but I will take my time to check out your stuff soon!

      Now that I know that your Irish though..... I will most definitely take all possible measures to ever avoid a conversation about religion with you big_smile  I used to drink regularly in an Irish bar, my dad is a Celtic fan and it used to show the games, the nicest place and the nicest people you could find in Norwich....... until two people disagreed about religion!

      1. profile image0
        \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ryankett wrote:



        Actually I from the 'East' of England. I do live up North though. I am a Northerner to those from London, and a Southerner from those from Leeds lol but I currently live about 20 miles east of Leeds, having just spent 3 of the last 4 years in Sheffield...... I am one of those people that has an affinity with both sets - despite being called a 'foreigner' by both. In fact, Im just one of those people that likes most people.... including the Irish wink.... my Nan had Irish parents...

        I did notice that you have read a few of my hubs, I have been awful lately at reading hubs and replying to others - but I will take my time to check out your stuff soon!



        I am from the north of England........ i live here that is all, and how did i know you were going to mention Leeds, i just.  I was raised in a place called Dukinfield Tameside Lancashire, lived in Liverpool and Runcorn and then moved back to greater Manchester....... i think your warm hearted shines through keep going

  22. quietnessandtrust profile image59
    quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago

    Well I was trying to give an opportunity for the 3 of them to say what they would do to either have created the world they way they think it should have been or repair this present one. Allowing them to state how they would have things to be if they had the total power to do so like a god.

    Honestly because they think that God is a failure and has allowed things to become a mess and He hates people and does not care about what goes on and has no love or things would be all wonderful.

    I know 2 of them do not believe in any god and tantrum thinks he is his own god. So I wanted to again, ask them what would they have done or what would they now do.

    And this is post #72 and I read all the others and to my surprise I saw that exactly one...1 post had an idea of what to do and that was from tantrum and it was like the 5th post and then an argument ensued and has continued for 67 postings as of now!!! mad

    How very, very, very sad.....as an open opportunity to give an opinion on how to recreate the world and mankind was offered and it turns ugly before the 10th post is up.   Sheeeesh!!! sad   sad   sad   roll

    I know Mark and Earnest have not posted yet, maybe they are out for the day. We shall see ?

    I wish the topic could get back on track though. They seem to have a lot of input on how...
    “if God exists, He sure jacked things up and does not give a cow-chip about any of us and is spiteful and hateful and evil”....something to that effect. sad

    I think it's odd that rather then OFFER a new CREATION...everyone wants to ARGUE!!!

    I will ask again:
    Where are the ideas from either the 3 or anyone else ?
    Clean slate, what would you do.....
    besides argue and complain ?

    1. atomswifey profile image69
      atomswifeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      well most humblely I will say that I for one would not in any way, shape or form even begin to even answer that question. Not being all knowing, perfectly just, All loving and All that is love, perfect in every aspect of perfection how could one even begin to answer that?

      1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
        quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The question is pretty much for the non~believer.

  23. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    I answered way back. not going to do it again.

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
      quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah....you seem to be the only one....are those all the ideas you have ? smile

      Oh, and would my picture be happeneing still ?

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No! I killed you about 12 hours ago ! big_smile

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
          quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          So in your world no animals would eat each other?

          1. tantrum profile image59
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              My creation would something different .Tooo looong 2 explain on a Sunday. rest day the Lord said ! big_smile

            Killing you was a joke. I will never do it. Would take half the fun of this forum lol

            1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
              quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Gosh that almost sounds "friendly"....but I will not tell anyone or make it public. like in a forum or start a topic on it ya know? lol
              It's good to have friends that are    "1/2 a bubble off"    it keeps you level.

              1. tantrum profile image59
                tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol lol

                1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
                  quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  It's a good thing I can breath under water.

  24. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago

    take a break Tantrum

  25. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    And is better if you stay down under !big_smile water

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
      quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No worries......volcanic voice can still be heard from the deepest fathoms just like (((((((("VA~VOOM"))))))))....from the old Felix The Cat cartoons!!!

      If you are old enough to remember them?

      1. tantrum profile image59
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I remember  Charles Chaplin and years after Betty Boop lol

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
          quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          So you were around when Charlie made his movies right?

          1. tantrum profile image59
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I was around when Jesus set up poor Judas into all that trouble big_smile

            1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
              quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this
  26. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago
    1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
      quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      wait for it now.........

  27. Colebabie profile image61
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Why is your avatar a great white semi-breaching?

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
      quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Cause tantrum and earnest like it. smile

      1. Colebabie profile image61
        Colebabieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So you're a people pleaser.

        1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
          quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No, amusing them a little bit.....it was there before they said something.
          It showed up and they said they liked it.

  28. Colebabie profile image61
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    So why did you choose it in the first place? (I'm assuming thats a better question)

    1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
      quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It has a meaning to me, when I saw it I had a really great thought.
      Made my day. big_smile

  29. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    The insulting childish title of the thread says it all. smile

    I do not see non religionists doing the same thing.
    Naming hubbers you have never read and know nothing about personally to insult them publicly is too small minded even for your average religionists! lol

    1. SweetiePie profile image83
      SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I explained that to several people today and I think now they get it.  I think anyone that knows you knows what a nice guy you are smile.

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If you two are going to get kissy-kissy geta room please, I just ate.

        1. SweetiePie profile image83
          SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You sure get around these forums.  I think earnest is a nice guy.  Not sure I can say the same about you...

          1. profile image0
            sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            earnie is a panzee! He spews his garbage all over the place and when you question him he runs and hides. I expected better than that from agodless communist and self proclaimed 'Wizzer of Wisdom'.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You know sneaker, you are a legend in your own lunch time.

              You are pathetic! lol I ask questions, you have no answers. Take your book away and you are mute! smile

            2. SweetiePie profile image83
              SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              He is secure in his beliefs and does not want to argue with those who have little respect.  Wow, he is such a bad guy smile.

              1. profile image0
                Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I find the same to be true.  He's one of the nicest guys on here.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree! lol

                  1. profile image0
                    ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I happen to agree with that too smile

                    And he doesn't hide behind some animated avatar either......

  30. Shaul Stein profile image61
    Shaul Steinposted 7 years ago

    A long, long time ago when atheists and agnostics wanted to get into recovery through AA it was suggested that they start their own "branch" but they did not want to, so AA adopted the "Higher Power" or "God as we understood Him" wordings and rewrote the Big Book. The original did not have these statements in it.

    I do not know why they just do not go start their own programs myself.
    They could get recognized by the courts too.

    1. profile image0
      wordscribe41posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      We have started our own programs, Rational Recovery, SMART Recovery and Women For Sobriety.  They are recognized by the courts, thanks.  The AA premise has ALWAYS been one of recognizing a Higher Power also known as "God as we understand him."  Very little has changed from the original Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.  Semantics don't change the idea.

      The animation is insulting.  Thanks.

      1. Shaul Stein profile image61
        Shaul Steinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not sure if you know your AA history as far back as it goes. The original docs. did not have "as we understood Him" in it at all.

        It was changed to accommodate the others because they wanted to get more members.

        Why is the little guy insulting? smile

        1. profile image0
          wordscribe41posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That's what I'm saying:  "as we understood Him" was added, but it doesn't change a thing about how the program works.  It utilizes the Christian idealogy of God, the addition of those words "as we understood him" doesn't change a thing about the premise of the program.  They will attempt to argue you can use any God you want, but thorough knowledge of the program demonstrates this is, indeed, a fallacy.  In reality, it makes absolutely no accomodations. 

          The cartoon is insulting because it mocks people with this devastating disease, "gulp" "gulp" "gulp" and countless people are dying each day.  It's not funny.

          1. Shaul Stein profile image61
            Shaul Steinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well I would hope that the people who started it that were Christians had put God in the program and that they stood by the tremendous success rate they had because of God. I do not think they should have changed a thing, but told the other unbelievers to start their own from the first moment they wanted to make changes.

            And it is not a "disease" at all, it is a "choice" to drink.
            Just like it is a choice to stop. And a choice to go to a meeting and a choice to get a sponsor and a choice to work the steps.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              .. and once again you display your ignorance of alcohol! smile How do you think your comment went down with those who have this disease? Why don't you think before you post!

            2. profile image0
              wordscribe41posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              AA has a very poor success rate, by the way.  Do your research...  You know nothing about the biochemistry involved in an addict's body if you purport it's not a disease.  Alcohol is metabolized much differently in an alcoholic than in the general population.  Alcoholism is considered a disease by the medical profession as it satisfies all necessary criterion for the "disease" model.  Educate yourself before making these void and inaccurate claims.

              1. Shaul Stein profile image61
                Shaul Steinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                What you are taught in AA today is much different than the original way it use to be 80 or so years ago and they do not really talk about it, it's all ((((( hush hush )))))
                This was long before "steps" were written.
                It was simple, direct and very successful unlike today !


                What Early A.A. Was Really Like
                 
                Alcoholics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous History, Bill W., and Dr. Bob. T A.A. history focuses particularly on the roles God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible had in early A.A.’s astonishing, documented, 75% and 93% success rates (in Akron and Cleveland, respectively) among “seemingly-hopeless,” “medically-incurable,” alcoholics who really tried to establish or re-establish their relationship with the God of the Bible through His Son Jesus Christ by making a choice to follow Him.

                A.A. Co-founder Bill W.'s Helpful Quotes
                "I'll do anything, anything at all. If there be a Great Physician, I'll call on him." [Bill W., My First 40 Years: An Autobiography by the Co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous (Center City, Minn.: Hazelden, 2000), 145.]

                "For sure I'd been born again." [Bill W., My First 40 Years, 147.]

                The reason why the success rate today is like 5% is because it is watered down and damn near useless!!!

                You make a choice to start drinking and you make a choice to stop!
                What?....someone force you to drink and or STOP ???

                1. profile image0
                  wordscribe41posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "There is only one term in the Twelve Steps that has been changed since the Big Book was first published in 1939. That term is “spiritual experience” in the Twelfth Step."  My bad, they already had "God as you understand Him."  Sorry, the 12 steps have not be altered, not watered down at all.  This is the crux of the program, always has been.
                  Sure, I made the choice to pick up and drink initially.  But, what happened to my body after that was not under my control.  I took the first drink, the rest took me. Sorry you know little about addiction and physiology.  Clearly you are not familiar with AA either.  I spent 13 years attending meetings, you?

                  1. Shaul Stein profile image61
                    Shaul Steinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    100% Recovered !!  big_smile

  31. quietnessandtrust profile image59
    quietnessandtrustposted 7 years ago

    Gee Earnest, the tantrum was not "insulted" at all.
    I mean, what for?

    Why be insulted at the chance to re~write the plan of the world?

    Last time I read anyone of a thousand of your posts you had no problem insulting the God people love all the time and have called Him every conceivable name you could muster up.

    So maybe stop with all the blaming of God and either write down how you would have things be if you were a god or keep your mouth shut.
    But for goodness sake don't pretend to be hurt !

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I am not hurt. It would take a lot more than the ninth rate crap you write to do that! lol

      No, I am just making the obvious point that you're a sock puppet with nothing useful to contribute! smile

  32. tantrum profile image59
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    He can't think. He's full of God's mercy ! sad

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeh, that sort of mercy we can all do without. lol

  33. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    You will also note that make money and sneaker always change my name. Ignorance again. My name does not abbreviate to anything except maybe Earn.
    Wrong name, from the wrong origins, wrong information about my posts, and any other lies they can think of to try to discredit. If we were in kindergarden it may even work for some of the youngest children, but my four year olds have outgrown it. lol

    1. blue dog profile image80
      blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      while over on the kids/obama thread sneak is waving the white flag, stating that he comes "to play."

  34. Colebabie profile image61
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Me too! smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Colebabie you are typical of the modern educated and just plain smart young woman of today, as so many are here at hubpages. smile
      I see Mark has not bothered to reply, so I would like to include him in the hubber Good guys.
      Mark has some other websites and the thing is, even his commercial sites are written in no hype language, straight and honest. I would give Mark money for a product he recommended based on his honesty.
      Of all the businesses I deal with online, no one is a straighter shooter than Mark Knowles. smile

  35. Colebabie profile image61
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Thanks earnest, I try smile

    And I admire your kind words about Mark, I'm sure he appreciates it.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Colebabie, it is just the truth. smile

  36. Spaghetti Monster profile image59
    Spaghetti Monsterposted 7 years ago

    Earnest, Mark, and Tantrum?
    Gods ??? Llol: lol lol lol
    They're not Gods. Just naughty little boys.

    And what do they do?

    Well, most of the time they play around in the forums, which is frustrating because their pasta is getting cold.

    If they don't come to the table soon, I'll cancel their shift in the stripper factory.

  37. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    No, you posted the thread to try and put yourself above others, which is well in character.
    What you got for your efforts is like computer programming. but a little different. In this case you put rubbish in, you get rubbished on the way out!
    You have the psych age of a spoilt 2 year old. smile

    1. GeneralHowitzer profile image64
      GeneralHowitzerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Ernest ohh you're so popular eh hehehe you're on of the lead star in this thread, can I have a cameo role here hehehe, veering away from the topic hehehe sowe...

  38. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    He does not understand the horror of this disease. I have seen it's long term effects on a relative. smile I reckon it takes a lot of guts to stop. I do not pretend to fully understand, but I saw her fight the disease and lose, it was terrible.She was an angel.

    1. profile image0
      wordscribe41posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm so sorry to hear that.  I've lost many friends from this disease.  It is merciless.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am sorry to say I have lost many friends to alcohol also, it is her that came to mind. This disease seems to be relentless. It is worse than many cancers in outcome. People are destroyed by it.

  39. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    That is quite lovely AEvans! I may still be a bit sleepy, but I did not connect the reference to Mark and Tantrum. smile

    1. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Another human being, I'll never judge nor condemn;

      cause he may have walked, where I've never been.

      How can I judge or condemn any man?;

      until in his shoes, I walk and I stand

      there is the reference we cannot condemn anyone for there beliefs, we cannot hate them for what they believe or the comments that they make we have to accept and love them just the way they are. smile

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        OK I understand, thank you for clarifying. smile I do not hate anyone either. I do hate and condemn what they do sometimes though. smile

        1. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I believe all of us dislike or condemn sometimes we are all human I have done it to but it certainly doesn't make you or I a horrible person. (( Big Hugs)) It makes us real smile

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Big hugs right back! I think so too. If we did nothing and said nothing about things we see that hurt children or adults for that matter, that is not honest, it is time to speak up.

            Religion can be a bit of a trap for those who become too focussed on being right to allow other's room for their beliefs.

            1. AEvans profile image70
              AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I agree with you completely and that is quite unfair when I look at some of the threads I honestly become irritated because I know what is going on in them ,Christians should not be bashing the should be leading by example but I rarely see that happening. sad

  40. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Like all people living in Australia as long as I have, I have met many wonderful people who would call themselves christians. They took great ideas of social caring from their books, as was their disposition.

    These people have all been unconcerned with the details of what they believed, as it worked in their lives.
    When I was a little kid, I used to walk past a farm on my way to school, and would drop in for a drink of milk out of the vat or the delivery tray if I wanted it warm. smile I was only a little tacker, and forgot my lunch and other stuff while talking to the farmer who liked me to follow him around.
    His mother was quite an old lady with a smile that would light a xmas tree, and she always made sure I left with everything I needed, never told me off, and said goodbye to me with a big hug at the farm gate, making sure I would be there on time. I loved Mrs Dean! A doer of christian values she had decided to live by.
    I admire that sort of courage too, even if I disagree with the source. You see, all the family were nice. The mother was a really nice woman, and I believe no matter where she took her values she would have chosen all the good ones! smile

    1. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Now that is something to live by and that is what I do, attacking others is not biblically correct and it pains me every time I see it. That is a darling story and one I see that you have not ever forgotten what a story you could write. smile

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not only do I remember them, they are central to who I am. I was a weird kid, taught to listen and think for myself.
        In my life until now I keep meeting ordinary yet heroic people.
        I try to emulate the things that seem loving in each of them and meld them with myself and my spiritual beliefs.

        Some encounters force us to re think, and this is where all the goodies are. lol I only prove that I learn nothing if I do not constantly grow and change with acceptance of other beliefs that I can see work better than the ones I hold now. smile

        1. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I sincerely understand and I do realize that some of your spiritual beliefs do come from a wonderful woman that you will never forget. smile

  41. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Sometimes our feelings get hurt.  People sometimes do not even realize when they do it smile.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I feel I may have hurt feelings here at times. I usually come down hard on Illogical "proof" and that can hurt other believers who are not a part of the discussion. smile

  42. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    I was not referring to you necessarily.  I just think people are taking things out of context smile.  Personally I am not even sure why this thread was started.  It seems like too much time on their hands you know.  I am the type that is strong in my beliefs and opinions, as seen on the political forum.  No one can offend me, and I go against the grain a lot.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Just thought I'd fess up! smile

  43. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    You know I felt sort of glossed over yesterday when I was trying to sort that misunderstanding out between you two.  I shall never intervene again.  Sometimes I think I go out of my way too much to get everyone friendly with each other again, and my efforts are not appreciated.  I did go out of my way for you yesterday by the way, and I am not sure you noticed smile.

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate your efforts, do what you have to the rewards and results are not in your hands. smile

      "Keep going is something I have to do,
      The fruit may come for me to chew." smile

      There are times when ones intentions are good but they get contorted and misunderstood which you should not be so concerned about.Its the intent which counts the most, as long as your heart is pure - no problem .smile

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Really right now all I feel is awkward and silly about it, but thanks for saying so.

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Dont feel bad , your intentions were good,you are welcome sweet SweetiePie. smile

          1. SweetiePie profile image83
            SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you smile.

    2. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      SweetiePie, you did indeed. Like my princess of light you rode in, sword of truth in hand on many occasions.
      I am a thoughtless baboon. I thought I had included you, and others here in some general statement about smart young women and other things, that in my mind, you would include yourself in.
      You are another hubber with a strong track record of being yourself and generous of heart and spirit.
      Please forgive me for my shabby treatment of a truly good person. NEVER, ever change because of such poor behavior. smile

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Okay I feel I may be acting too sensitive over the forums.  I did not like you being called a bully, and I felt maybe I was acting like the tattle tale or something.  Thanks for saying that smile.

  44. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Thanks AEvans, I always enjoy conversation with you! smile

    1. AEvans profile image70
      AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You too!! Goodnite. smile

  45. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    No SweetiePie you are entirely within the bounds. I do apologize, it was thoughtless of me. smile Friends? smile

  46. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Yes of course.  I really think I am letting these forums get to my head.  It is hard being American right now and being liberal.  I hate feeling like I am an outsider because I support Obama, even though I know many people do.  Their lack of knowledge about the United States is really annoying me, and I think sometimes I get way too sensitive about all of these forums.  I always have liked your a lot earnest!

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I like President Obama as he is trying to attain peace between the Muslims and Christians and its high time, I fully support him in this venture . smile

  47. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    SweetirPie, I do feel for your position. You would fit in well with most Australian's take on Obama.
    We have of course got reservations about a lot of American issues and how to resolve them, as they affect us so much as a small somewhat attached economy.
    The huge difference is the humanity that is the man. Not easy to deny. He really is smart and savvy, engaging and sociable, decent and nice.
    He has one hell of a job to do, and all America should get behind him as you have. I admire you for being able to stand alone in your views and would say as I did earlier that smart young women need to be heard. There is wisdom in the female slant on things that I think urgently needs listening to in politics. It encompasses empathy with intelligent solutions through feeling about it as well as thinking about it. As clever as thinking may seem, it is never complete without feeling included somewhere in the process. Just some thoughts smile

  48. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    I have my reservations about the economy also, but this arguing about a speech to school kids is just way too much non sense.  Honestly I do not see things getting better for awhile economic wise, but I am not sure how they thought McCain would have done better.  The economic down turn may have to run its course.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, this is a long way from over, and that has not changed as much as some think. I do believe Obama will win through long term. I heard an interview on the BBC where he was portrayed by those who know him as solid and steady in a crisis. smile

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes I would say in the long term Obama will be ahead of the game.  This makes a lot of people mad because he has been depicted to go against their ideology, which I really do not understand.  They think Bush, Ron Paul, McCain and all these other candidates represent God, which brings the whole religion thing in it again.  Some one told me that Obama was like Hitler because he supports abortion, which is the modern day Holocaust.  I wonder where these people are from because I just do not hear this non-sense much out in California lol.  Well some, but not to the extremes as some on the hubs.

  49. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    Some are across the border in Arizona, no lie.  Lotsa crazies here...we just came across a big Palin bill board on the highway today, smile.

    And I guess there are whole small towns here with that 'flavor.'  I've never met many people like this until now...as I've always lived in more urban areas.

  50. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    We have little of the extreme political views here.Some of the religious loonies really are scary in America. Logic and thought goes out the widow "I am always right about everything" replaces thoughtful considerations of the opposing view. Hell of a job running a country with the loonies loose in the political system! smile Despite the fact that Parliament is opened here with the lords prayer and that we have a religious prime minister, we strongly oppose any interference by the church in politics. smile

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