I wrote a hub about Christ and his siblings. I mentioned a certain brother of Jesus Christ's named Judas Thomas. Clearly stated his name was Judas Thomas. I cannot believe all the idiotic messages I've received from Christian's trying to inform me about how wrong I was, and that Judas Thomas was "Christ's Traitor!"
First and foremost- their is more than 1 Judas mentioned in the bible. Got it? Secondly- why are so many Christians extremely ignorant on their own belief system?
Yes IGNORANT!!! Over 90% of comments I receive about something religious I've written, the commenter doesn't have a clue about who, what, when, or why- but that doesn't stop them from spreading HATE, PLUS INCOMPLETELY WRONG information. Why don't Christians start studying the bible they claim to love, and read; to become better aware of their religion they are following? I don't get it. So the conversation I'd like to have here is; WHY don't YOU know more about the bible you pretend to be worshiping with?
You hit it on the nose. Because most don't read it for themselves. I'm not saying all, just most. They rely on a pulpit message to interpret it for them. Or a book, or a speaker, the list goes on.
Then there's also the fact that we're all human and things like pride and more get in the way of allowing us to evaluate whether or not we're actually right or wrong....but that's a whole other topic.
I don't frequent the forums, but this caught my attention in the feed when I logged in...
The bottom line is this, most people that lay claim to being Christians (like 90%) are not. Ask them who the first people to be called Christians were. They won't know. Ask them what the entire message for salvation consists of, or what it means to be saved by grace, i.e. How do we identify with the Gospel. They most certainly will not know. Ask them where the message for salvation is first preached. They won't know. In fact most so called "Christians" (Due to the fact that this term is used so loosely, I almost don't like calling myself a Christian, and I know the answers to all of these questions+). Don't know anything about Christ. They have this Idea that Grace entails nothing more than a mind recognition that Jesus saves, and that's all that anybody has to do. Sorry, this is a lie. According to Jesus Most people are going to hell. This is a hard thing for most people to come to terms with, but this is what the bible teaches. Wide is the path to destruction, and MANY go in there at. Strait is the way to salvation and few there be that find it. Look at that word strait it is not straight as in an arrow, rather s-t-r-a-i-t, look at the spelling, it is a narrow passage, and Few there be that find it. Why is this? Because people (due to false teachers/prophets) are under this false assumption that faith can be valid without obedience to the word of God.
As far as the siblings of Jesus, if you are going to make such claims you ought to back it by also putting the bible verse in which people can review this for themselves. That way there is no ambiguity concerning the issue. Furthermore Catholics are just idiots and refuse to believe that Mary even had sex with her husband. Look at Matt 1:24-25 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
To know someone in the bible is to have intimate relations with, in this case it means to have sex. Look at that verse it doesn't say that he never knew her, rather he knew her not TILL she gave birth. there after it was like any other marriage. They absolutely had sex, and yes they absolutely had other children. There are other scriptures to back this as well, it's like you said these so called "Christians" don't read the bible. And yet they claim to serve God. These people are lost, they don't have anything. Check out a couple of my blogs.
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Great-Commi … uke-Part-5
http://of-the-lord.blogspot.com/2009/08 … elius.html
Many of my people parish for lack of knowledge...
My guess... because 'they' got to them before they had a chance to read it for themselves.
From experience, I know that often times the minister, priest or what have you, suggest not reading it but listening to them instead.
Because they are told how to believe, what to believe, and how to think. They are set on a path.. a mindset that is immovable because they have been told that doing so would land them in hell or worse, their parents beat them, disown them and all sort of heinous things.
I would also say that 98% of those people who call themselves Christians have never read the Bible and if they have, then they were told before hand what they are to believe about it.
That and they are just plain lazy, don't care enough about knowing that they believe but would rather hop on the bandwagon of blind faith and ride the tidal wave to destruction.
Looks like we have a winner!
See what I mean? Clueless.
Yes, "Yea, ok then" is a clear case of ignorance on my part.
Yet, it's ignorant on your part to think others who may have differing interpretations or beliefs in the Bible from yours, are ignorant.
What did I win by the way? Damnation?
IE don't answer this stupid question. You made some really good valid points here, and expect your fellow "Christ lovers" to start hating you and spewing crap your way. Remember your dealing with A-#1, "typical" Christian a-holes here on HubPages.
As for myself, I think you were wrong in the first place, to expect "Christians" to know their bible, and all. That was your first mistake. So don't bother answering questions like that one, because they are just trying to tussle because 9x's out of 10- they don't know their shit either.
I liked your hub, and to be quite fair about it- as a non conformists it was the first thing that I had ever read that actually made some sense out of your religion.
I just read in the hub in general, to which I disagree with; but any Christian would know that the name of the Judas that betrayed Jesus was Judas ISCARIOT. Not Judas Thomas.
Now, here's a question to see if you can walk your own talk.
Who is Lucifer?
I fixed that BTW on that Hub thanks for pointing it out
they just played their role no need investigation
K, Don't stone me for this, I have not studies the bible or gone to church for years... so I am a little rusty, I think Lucifer is a latin? word for "Morning Star" and when some guy was translating one of the psalms, he used the word Lucifer and it stuck as the "name for Satan" though actually the passage has nothing to do with Satan??
Close? or no cigar... my feelings won't be hurt in any way... like I said... haven't studied it in years and don't care to.
Beautiful minds, a match made in heaven (pun not intended but I wish it was) Oh the Christians, poor Christians... Forgive them father for they know not what they do.
One of my faviourites, please understand that I am never entirely sure of my quotes, I am just not THAT into, however I do have a good memory for ideas. I believe it is in second Peter, somewhere up that end anyway, it goes, and I paraphrase of course. When you are judged, be you Christian, Jewish or whatever other faith, you will be judged the same.
A non-existent entity perpetuated by religion.
I am just returning a shot. Sort of showing my protection of a new girl on the block, trying to win her attention.
I read the Hub its harmless it's just her take on what she's read if you're secure in your faith and belief why should it matter?
A person who is of different faith from yours will automatically reject or make fun of you on what you knew about the Bible. Ignore them!
That's not true.
If you don't understand LIFE, then you will form your faith based on fantasy and not reality.
To have faith in something 100%? Philosophy says- "you can not overlook your own consciousness, conscience and sub-conscious, with something that is non-existent".
That means the human consciousness, in combination with your conscience and sub-conscious, you can NEVER 100% believe or back, something that is not real.
It's impossible. Your individual consciousness doesn't allow you to 100% believe in anything that isn't real. No matter how much your mind says it is. DEEP inside there will always be doubt.
That is precisely why christians attack so much. They are trying to reinforce their own belief as factual, when reality says different.
Sorry to be the one to tell you, but this is fact. Accept reality, control over your life and be done with the false 'god' you worship.
I control my own life and I choose to beleive because I want to believe what I think is truth.
I guess we will all know when we die.
If I'm wrong, I won't exist. If I'm right, I'll be in heaven. Either which way I don't lose.
If I didn't believe and there was a God, the consequences when I die for not beleiving is scary.
So, bottomline is that you chose out of fear of what happens after your already dead?
Does that make sense?
When you die- dude, your dead. There is no after life or life after death. And, the only reason you think that there is - is because the 'bible'(created by man) told of 'god's will'.
Religion- only exists because YOU and others refuse to accept full responsibility for your entire life.
You are only suppose to believe in things that are real. If you think it's real isn't good enough. You will always have a doubt- that doubt is your consciousness, conscience and sub-conscious tell you it's not real.
Deep down- you know it has NO REAL substance. It's hope for something better that reinforces your belief.
When the truth is- YOU make your own life- You are in CONTROL of your own existence. It is up to you to put FAITH in yourself, to guide yourself with a purpose and live life.
To all those who are wondering what I'm doing.........
I have a life besides HubPages. I am a hugh boxing fan, and so I was watching the big Marquez vs. Mayweather fight. That's all I'll say on some of the comments and replies about my whereabouts. Thank you very much.
I don't read the Bible, but while we're complaining can I note that it bugs me when people don't capitalize the first "B" in "Bible"... (It's a writer thing. )
check this hub http://hubpages.com/t/dd45e specially for Christians.
I study the Bible on a regular basis. I've read it around eight times. As far as why others don't, I'd imagine it has something to do with laziness. Many go to church just so they won't feel as bad about all the hell they've raised throughout the week. But the Bible clearly says that It's something that should be studied daily -- check this out:
Acts 17:11 (King James Version)
11 -- These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
So God considers folks noble that search the Scriptures daily to see if whoever is preachin is on point. Now if God felt this way about folks studying Scripture concerning Paul, who's wrote over half the New Testament, I'm sure He'd want folks to be doing the same thing now. But I can only study the Bible for myself -- can't do it for anyone else.
Thing is, Cagsil, there's just as much "proof" for your stance as there is for the Christian stance. How can you prove that there's no afterlife? How do you know? And you may want to say the burden of proof is on me. But it's not. Why? Because of what you just said -- "YOU make your own life- You are in CONTROL of your own existence. It is up to you to put FAITH in yourself, to guide yourself with a purpose and live life." Concerning the way I perceive the world, it's ultimately about what I believe in; it goes the same with your world. I'd venture to say you'd ride with the following stance, and you may correct me if I'm wrong: you believe Christianity is a mere myth because of the inconsistencies amongst Christians and the "holes" in the belief system. I believe there's too much order for Christianity to not be valid.
I mean, let's get a lil scientific, if you don't mind. Concerning the visible spectrum of the universe (just the visible spectrum, not the entire universe), it is 266,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilometers in diameter -- that's 266 sextillion kilometers for you math buffs out there. Outta all that space, the earth and the sun happened to be positioned in the perfect placement within inches to sustain life -- if the earth was a few inches closer to the sun, we'd burn up; vice-versa, we'd freeze. Evidence of that is the dynamics of the earth's weather -- it can 100 degrees Fahrenheit somewhere (e.g., Saudi Arabia, Arizona, etc.) and -100 Fahrenheit somewhere else (e.g., Antarctica). And outta all that space, I'm supposed to believe that just happened? That seems quite illogical to me. And don't even get me on the electromagnetic fields that are in place that keeps the earth from just flying out into its own orbit somewhere in space . . . And we're just talkin bout the earth -- it gets even more illogical to me when you factor in the other celestial bodies out there (e.g., planets, stars, asteroids, meteors, etc.) that the earth could be colliding with.
Christianity isn't set out to make sense anyway; it's set out to make faith -- two different things. I think the only way to verify it is similar to a recipe -- follow the recipe, bake the cake, taste it, and if it comes out the way it said, ya know ya got it. Most Christians don't even know the recipe, so we don't even have to talk about following it. Your stance is about as correct as me saying knives are evil because somebody took one and butchered their entire family with one. There's so many more useful things you can do with a knife, but it all falls on the user. So just because certain folks may rep Christianity wrong doesn't make Christianity wrong. You've gotta judge the belief system by the actual Source, not the flawed folks who claim to follow the Source.
We just have to be willing to admit there are some things beyond our understanding. So how can I take my limited reasoning and say something as audacious as there's no such thing as the afterlife? What? Just because I don't understand it -- there's already a plethora of things out there I don't understand, so who's to say the afterlife thing isn't just another one of those? I don't understand how a brown cow can eat green grass and produce white milk. But somehow it happens.
All of these scientific explanations do not default to Christianity being valid. Christianity falls flat even with those scientific measurements. There are a lot of things that we don't know, but to presuppose that the default is Christianity is...well a 266 sextillion kilometer leap of faith.
Well, I can agree with this bit.
The garbage about there being just as much proof for christianity as anything else?
Deary me. Rather cancelled out by the previous statement about christianity not making any sense.
Christianity makes no sense, therefore it is just as likely as anything else? Oops.......
Where did this crap about "if you cannot disprove it, it must be true come from?"
And the burden of proof is NOT on the one making the unsubstantiated claims? LOL
Yet it is all about FAITH not PROOF? LOLOL
Well - I heard the funniest one today:
"God died for you."
Yes - people who believe that sort of meaningless, irrational garbage are capable of all sorts of unpredictable and anti social behavior.
Anybody is capable of that kind of behavior.
I disagree. It takes a special faith to fly a plane into a building. And yes - Nationalism and religionism are brothers in arms. but still.....
Personally - I would not trust a person who thinks god died for him as far as I could spit him.
Well, that's up to you. Like I said, anybody is capable of those types of antisocial behaviors. You could behave antisocially if you wanted to do those kinds of behaviors. To say someone isn't capable of those kinds of behavior for the simple fact that they're against Christianity is provincial.
I never said any such thing.
Anyone could behave like that therefore it is OK that christians do?
And you might want to edit your last statement as it makes absolutely no sense. Other than you are defending your ridiculous beliefs.
It makes perfect sense. What he's saying is that Christians don't have a lock on anti-social behavior. No one is saying it's ok.
It's not ok for Christians or anybody to behave like that. You just said it takes a special kind of faith to fly a plane into a building. What else were you implying? It sounds to me like you were saying the only people who do this are people who follow some sort of spiritual or religious sect of belief.
And as far the post you're referencing not making any sense. Uh, how doesn't it? I could throw a chair at this computer in frustration for being misunderstood and misrepresented, and you could do likewise. But I'm still typing -- so I haven't done that yet. I'm assuming you haven't either since you're responding. What's so hard to understand about that? I could chase my younger sister around the house with one of those surgically sharp Cutco knives in the kitchen, but I haven't done that either because I love her.
The main point I was making is every overt action we do is a choice. And everbody makes stupid choices from time to time -- even non-Christians.
So - It doesn't take a special kind of faith to fly a plane into a building?
Your post does not make any sense because - it doesn't make any sense.
Sorry. Your ridiculous beliefs are just that - ridiculous. I don't care if you are too ignorant and uneducated to not be able to discern that "god died for you" is a stupid statement and any one who believes crap like that is incapable of making a rational decision.
That makes them dangerous.
Sorry your irrational beliefs make you argue against that statement. Think you might persuade me you are rational?
Or perhaps - just perhaps. I am far too well developed and grasp an understanding that is well beyond your intellectual understanding?
Faith may or may not have anything to do with flying a plane into a building. What if I just wanted to fly a plane into a building so I could make the news forever? You don't have to have faith to fly a plane into a building; you just have to willing and have the means to accomplish the task at hand.
And I don't have to resort to personal attacks to refute arguments. To tell you the truth, you're showing your own ignorance in some of the statements you're making -- like saying I'm not capable of a rational decision. Why do I have to attack you when you're already blasting yourself?
Do you wnt to fly a plane into a building? And if that is for the news - does that make it OK that people do it for religious beliefs?
Sorry your ridiculous beliefs have been shown to be just that.
Bet you really love me though?
How did I make a personal attack exactly?
Anyone who thinks god died for them is not capable of making a rational decision.
Evo, you really are a boring old windbag spouting the same old rubbish day in and day out.
You lack any originality and frankly I wonder why anybody bothers to reply to your biased and abusive posts at all.
Maybe you are just a auto reply spam program!
And, yet again, you run your mouth like you're a 'better' person, who has already form a misguided judgement on others, because they don't believe like you do.
Is your purpose to always attack people and their beliefs?
If so, then that makes you pathetic, and a waste of life.
I do not attack your belief, as you would think- I'm attacking the knowledge with which you claim to have.
Your belief is based on that knowledge and your understanding of it.
So, what you've shown the others of the forum is that YES, you are a religious person and you have no understanding of your own religious beliefs.
Ain't that a shame. You have no shame and don't even know it.
No, I don't wanna fly a plane into a building. Flying planes into buildings is not ok. But I still love you.
You made a personal attack when you said anyone who thinks God died for them is not capable of making a rational decision. They are; I do everyday -- as a matter of fact, I made a rational decision when I decided to not chase my younger sister around the house with one of those surgically sharp Cutco knives in the kitchen despite typing about it. People who don't think God died for them are also capable of making rational decisions.
I am. I'm doing good to somebody who hates me. I'm sure you didn't mean for my good when you insinuated I may not be educated enough to get on your level.
<snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>
Thank you very much.
What I implicitly said was there's as much proof concerning the afterlife existing as there is proof that the afterlife doesn't exist. Afterlife being hogwash is just as unsubstantiated as the afterlife being true.
The nature or man and woman requires one to spend ALL of their life in reality, except when sleeping.
To do otherwise is to defy your own consciousness, conscience and sub-conscious, which helps you develop into who you are.
Religion exists outside of reality, as does the concept of an afterlife.
Again, it's the same old argument, which as no basis.
However, people continue to make it look like "GOD" or an "Afterlife" exists and MUST be disproved.
When FACTS dictate you see reality and what exists in reality, BEFORE you make the 'leap' of faith into things outside reality.
Therefore- the proof isn't on non-believers to provide proof of anything that exists outside of reality, but IS for believers to prove that it does exist.
And, believers cannot provide any proof- GOD or an afterlife exists. Therefore, their belief is foolish.
So are you ultimately saying if you cannot perceive something, it doesn't exist?
To perceive something is simply the creation of thoughts, mixed with whatever knowledge and understanding you have on that perceived thought.
If your knowledge about the perceive thought is baseless, then your understanding of your knowledge of that perceived thought is also going to be wrong.
Perception is your interpretation of what you see, hear, taste, smell or touch. To perceive something that isn't based in reality is to thinking illogically, irrationally and against your own nature.
Just because- you have a perception of God's existence, that makes it real. It doesn't.
By defined by science and philosophy- Aristotle- Reality exists. Reality exists free of independent thoughts, desires, will or wishes. Reality is all knowable.
GOD's existence is unknowable. It's a supposed entity that lives outside of reality, but controls all life. Some religions believe that God's divine plan has already written out your entire life.
How can that be, when you don't even know, what you're going to do next?
And you're right; just because I have a perception of God being real doesn't make Him real. His actual reality is independent of my perception. For instance, I'm typing right now whether you perceive it or not. And you're not gonna perceive that I am typing until I hit the "Submit" button. At this very moment while I'm typing this message, you could be perceiving that I've left the sight in a rage. But what bearing does that have on what I'm actually doing? Right. Absolutely none.
How can God already have my life plan written out when I don't know what I'm going to do myself? I don't know. I guess that can be explained by perspective as well. Let's just say I'm watching a parade from the corner of the street. I won't know what's coming up next until the portion of the parade reaches my line of sight. God is watching the parade from the top of a skyscaper -- therefore, He's see the entire parade. That's about the best explanation I can offer.
Okay, now you sound ridiculous. What I 'could' perceive is beyond your scope and that means, you can not understand it, therefore you can not explain it. But, you make assumptions, as to what I'm thinking/perceiving, so you can try to form a logical argument and in you doing so, making an assumption, you've simply showed how little you know(knowledge) about life.
"GOD's reality is independent of my perception." is the dumbest thing you've said so far. Because none of it is based in your own reality. The 'god' concept is outside reality.
And, proves you missed my point- anything outside reality doesn't exist, if you simply honestly admit to yourself that be the case. But, since you do believe in GOD's existence, you've based your assumption yet again off of a baseless foundation.
Many aspects of what you can perceive are beyond my scope, but not all of the aspects. I don't know what you could be perceiving, but that doesn't nullify the fact that you could actually have been perceiving that I went off the site in a rage -- whether you did or not is beside the point. The main point I was making is what's perceived doesn't necessarily have a bearing upon reality. I could perceive that there's no such thing as a Bentley Continental Flying Spur; however, there is such thing as a Bentley Continental Flying Spur. I could also perceive that a Bentley Continental Flying Spur exists; and a Bentley Continental Flying Spur does exist. A Bentley Continental Flying Spur exists regardless of my perception. Reality and actuality exist regardless of one's ignorance or intelligence.
And I love how your perception is beyond my scope of understanding but my perception and supposed little knowledge about life isn't beyond your scope of understanding.
So then you do understand that your perception of god is not based in reality?
Not nesso. Think of those old VW commercials - Perception vs. Reality. In other words, because you have a viewpoint at all it is, by definition, biased.
The christian religion is not about reality - it is about FAITH.
No, I don't. My perception doesn't have any bearing upon reality. Reality is reality whether you can perceive it or not. There was a time when atoms hadn't been uncovered to incorporate into reality. Does that mean atoms didn't exist until some shrewd science buff uncovered them? So with that said, maybe just maybe perceptions of God haven't uncovered Him yet. Just a thought . . .
And I am just repeating what you said,
"My perception doesn't have any bearing upon reality."
Do you really think he's claiming to be a loony? His statement obviously goes deeper than the surface explanation.
Oh yeah, this just in: just in case you haven't realized this, reality is independent of your perception and errbody elses too.
Still fighting the fight I see.
I am amazed, myself-knowing that god can not die; that it would come up as a point of conversation. But such is the constitution any one can say anything.
Stay strong you've got your work cut out for YOU.
The 'god' concept was made by man.
Just a thought.
If there was such a thing as "GOD's WILL", logic dictates that ALL HUMANS would know for 100% fact that he does exist.
Since, MANKIND existed before 'religion' ever did. Leads one to believe there is no god. It only makes sense.
Man created religion. If you think differently, you are fooling yourself.
Same thing. Although - if you believe in god - you cannot see that.
bet you have a "personal relationship" huh?
Sadly - l we "religion religion"
Because, if it was not FOR religion- then YOU wouldn't believe in GOD!
I thought you would have figured that out.
There is . . . gasp!. . . something beyond religion. Religion is just a finger pointing the way. The finger is not what people believe in, they believe in God. If you don't have any inner experience of God then you don't. But your holier-than-thou (pun intended) insistence that other people don't is out of line. You have no way of knowing what others experience, only what you yourself experience.
Here's an opinion agreeing...gasp!...that there's something beyond religion. Esoteric and/or bizarre as it may sound, it may not even be religion that points the way. I'm not a Christian, but yes, I actually do believe in God's existence.
What convinced me? Not Bible reading, though I certainly did that. No, what convinced me was...double gasp!!...ASTROLOGY!!
Well, see, I began studying astrology and actually setting up (and studying) astrology charts in 1972. For the first time in my 28 years (my age at that time), I gained a "higher perspective" and was able to see that this Universe is actually and truly a place of order and predictability. Statistics 101 also convinced me that the level of order I was seeing was highly improbable. Ergo, some overarching intelligence (God's Will, if you will) had to exist. Duh.
This epiphany did not make me a member of any religion. That came a bit later when I came across, or more likely was led to find, a religion that taught principles I'd ALREADY concluded were accurate.
But to my way of thinking, that doesn't mean, Cagsill, that there's any reason YOU should believe God's Will exists. Seems to me we're all exactly where we need to be...for our own learning and unfoldment...for now. And if "now" lasts for a few trillion years before you or I shift our levels of awareness up, down, or sideways, so what?
After all, time is relative.
I coulda swore the Bible said all humans will know for 100% fact that God does exist. Hol up, lemme check . . .
Romans 14:11 (King James Version)
11 -- For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Philippians 2:9-11 (King James Version)
9 -- Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 -- That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 -- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Guess we just have to stay tuned, and watch . . .
What threats? I didn't say that; I was just quoting what the Bible said.
Why? It fit for the point I was making. Cagsil made a statement concerning all humans knowing 100% that God does exist -- just wanted to show the Bible covered that.
Oh yeah. It is not what you said.
It is what it says in the bible.
Not your words.
Bible says it.
You are not doing the threatening.
It is in the bible.
Must be a comfort........
Speaking for god.
...tuning back in... and Revelation says? That some will still not believe...
Therefore, it is not true that everyone will confess Christ is Lord and it is not true that every knee will bow... unless... of course... they... we.... are.... forced to.
Sad really, that worship to the "good lord" must be forced or you will die.
A god who uses force to gain admiration is no god at all.
I would be scared !!
I'm so happy I don't believe !!
That's the kicker -- it's either willingly or unwillingly; I'm choosing to do it willingly.
Obviously because you don't know any better or fear for what happens to you after you're dead.
I chose never. Would rather die then pay worship to something that kills for respect.
Would rather lick shite than force others to believe that this god you worship loves everyone...expect those who don't worship him...
In my eyes it doesn't make you faithful, it makes you a coward and it makes you stupid for believing that you would even be good enough for this beast. In my 'perception', it seems you would rather kill for this god then love for this god.
You don't care about other people, you don't care or love Mark... what you care about or love is your faith in god and that if you do what you believe he asked you to do then you will be saved from the pit of fire.
Doesn't matter to you what happens just as long as you get saved right... because perception is everything, right?
Come back to reality.
A belief made from fear means one doesn't understand life or how to face their own fears.
And, yes- you are right a 'god' who uses force to gain admiration is no god at all.
However, I would also like to point out- you can choose to believe or be damned? Is there really a choice.
Oh Please... get real, for all your postulating you're not dumb, pissed off with Christ maybe, but not dumb.
If you find yourself standing before the God who created everything, you will instantly recognise that you were wrong, because I guess God would be kinda awe inspiring to anybody... and you will confess Him and you will bow down, not from fear, but from realisation.
And if he actually did burn me in fire for eternity, you can be sure that I would be thinking to myself that I was right all along.
This god you believe in as being all good, is not good at all. Happy hunting.
Again, you're jumping to assumption based on no facts.
Also, remember, reality exists and god doesn't exist in reality.
Therefore, if you're going to argue that "GOD" exists, beyond the man-made religion you belong to, you are likely to need to provide proof of his existence.
WITHOUT referring to a bible or scripture or text of any religious form.
You can't prove GOD exists beyond what you've been told or what misconception you've invented in your mind to prove to yourself that he exists.
I'll guarantee- ALL those who are religious have some sort of doubt and that's because the human consciousness, the conscience and your sub-conscious knows it isn't real.
So, please. Your argument isn't even on valid points.
And, you know what- the 'what IF' option is not an option. Because, IF I wanted to I could believe, I've done it before.
How ever, since I live in reality, I know "god" doesn't exist.
How do I know? Because, I feel right, from head to toe, 100% positive, thru and thru, it's not real.
If I had any doubt, whatsoever, I wouldn't be able to honestly that. If you choose to call me a liar, then that is your choice.
But, in doing so- you form a judgement based on an assumption that I don't feel the way I say I do. Thus, making you wrong.
P.S. I would suggest that you stop jumping to assumption, but I don't think that would do any good.
Cags you really are a case, you have no right or ability to refuse me permission to answer you with scripture or bible, or religious text. You have every right to ignore what I say, but none to dictate HOW I should say or state my opinions, and that is all that is happening here, opinions being fired back and forth, with no change in either sides position.
It's about as effective as the First World War 'advances'
Obviously we will never agree, you will refuse to acknowledge God, continue to be a fool (because as scripture says, The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." (Psalm 53)and we will both know the truth about who is correct when we die, unless you are right in which case I will simply cease to exist.
What a waste of a life if all you can think to do is sit here sending the same old same old to people who will never be shaken from their faith.
All the believers on this site want to do is discuss their faith questions,with each other - you have no faith, we affect NOBODY who does not wish to discuss Christianity, you and you little cabal of whatever have decide to try and subvert our discussions.
Why? and don't give me that drivel about saving young minds from our poisonous lies, young minds are more than capable of detecting error and are hormonally prone to avoid the strictures of Christianity, in the teen years they are more prone to listen to your foolishness than our God.
You are simply subversives and frankly, I wonder what the reaction of Hub Central would be if we (believers) went on a homosexual forum and poured out the sort of scorn you and your little chums do on us.
I imagine we would be shut out pretty fast.
Obviously Hub Central care not about the way your little gang attempt to disrupt these forums with intentional conflicts managed between yourselves.
You know, I enjoy your so-called rational thought process. It's amazing you can be so blind.
You don't realize- religion is man made.
Since it is man-made- YOU cannot bring it to the table for discussion, because it is NOT based on facts.
Man made it up. And, if you can't see through the hoax, then that is your problem.
Obviously, you cannot even understand your own scriptures. And, that's a shame. I need no GOD in my life, because I AM GOD in my life. DUH!
Since, I AM GOD of my own life- I cannot be a fool. Are you really this stupid?
All believers are LIARS. How do I know that? Because, all the ones that speak out, speak out to reinforce their belief. By defending their faith/belief, they seem themselves defending something tangible.
Your consciousness, your conscience and your subconscious can NEVER be fooled by something that isn't real.
So, you keep up working on building your faith/belief, by defending something not real. Deep inside you, you know there is doubt, hence you have hope.
YOU don't really know what is going to happen AFTER you die. So, give it up.
By the way, I'm not poisoning anything. You're the fool is believing something not of this world.
I can't possibly be considered poison, until I was dishonest in some way, like lying. But, I'm not spreading lies, I'm actually speak truth that you've determined are lies.
Again, you fight from a weakened position. I deal with reality of facts - You deal in mystical far away places.
Who do you think is dealing with their life properly?
Certainly not you. Life is to be lived inside reality, NOT outside it.
I figured you would be smarter than that.
Come on- let's keep it REAL.
By the same token
A simple truth.
All definations are man made including Reality.
You or I do not realy know what reality realy is.
We realy only think it is.
Cags, all I can say to you is 'whatever' - 'cos you surely blew it all away with your revelation that you are your own god.
I only talk to one God and that's the one I know and love.
You poor sad case.
True. But the concept of God and God are not the same thing. Like the concept of eating and eating are not the same. A concept of eating won't keep me alive; eating, on the other hand, will.
But your god does not exist. Oh - wait a minute - He is dead.
I feel for your loss.
You say true to the fact that the 'god' concept was made by man, and yet you see a difference between the concept created by man and GOD himself. This makes no sense.
If man made 'god' up from thoughts, creativity and belief, then that should tell you that it is not real. DUH! I would have thought you figured that out.
As for your example of eating, as a concept- it isn't a concept. It is a poor example, because eating is an innate ability that happens when one is hungry.
If you get hungry, you're consciousness knows it is time to eat and then you go and get something to feed yourself. No concept.
You've got to be kidding me. There's a concept to everything. It's concepts which lead us to uncovering cutting edge innovations -- like when I add this concept to that one and so on and so forth, I could come up with a new concept that hasn't been uncovered just yet.
What you've just stated concerning your consciousness and getting something to eat is a concept. I coulda swore a concept was something formed by mentally combining all its characteristics or particulars (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concept) -- so how isn't what you've just said a concept again? Oh, maybe it's just your perception. But reality concerning concept is right there in that link.
umm - think the word you are looking for is not "concept" it is "dogma"
You already know god died for you right?
Again, yes, you could perceive that there's no such thing as a Bentley Continential Flying spur, however, there is such a thing as a Bentley Continential Flying spur exists.
If it exists, then it is part of reality, which you don't perceive. That would be why? Because, a lack of knowledge.
You are running yourself in circles, trying to get me to screw up and it's not likely to happen.
I've already said- Reality exists. Reality exists free of independent THOUGHT, DESIRE, WILL, or WISHES! Reality is all knowable.
Your pathetic attempt to force something that is not in existence, into existence, cannot be done through using your mind.
Your MIND is what helps you perceive things, as well, as your senses. If you are not knowledgeable or do not understand whatever knowledge you have obtained, then anything you perceive will be baseless or not part of reality.
You perceiving there is a 'god' because of your perception of the bible, then obviously your perception is baseless, because the knowledge you get from the bible is of no facts.
So, with that said- I'm not going to repeat myself again.
It is obvious that your knowledge is limited and your understanding(wisdom) of what you've learned is based on a lot of assumptions and not facts.
I'd suggest you re-think.
There is no question that everybody should read the bible. However, we should all understand that in reality not everybody reads it. We all have our individual reasons for doing or not doing something. I suggests that you can quote bible verses to support your hub. In this way, your readers can better identify and relate to your articles. Have a great week!
Hard to think of a more hate mongering and vile book than the bible. Why would you say everyone should read it? In reality - there is no more hate filled a book than the bible which has skewed our thinking for too long. The sooner we dispose of this disgusting work - the better.
Have a wonderful Week yourself!
I read the Bible twice.
the first time I thought it was mildly interesting.
The second time, I couldn't cope with all the lies and flaws !
You should also read the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, the Talmud, the Vedas, etc. and anything else you can think of if you want to get a balanced understanding of God. If you don't, then don't pursue it.
Just stumbled across this article.
Just a few pointers.
First we must understand what Christianity we follow and preach to others.
The origins of Christianity was to be a free thinker, a gnostic.
The Roman Empire despised the origins of Christian faith. Emperor Nero blamed the Christians for torching Rome in 49AD and had many fed to the lions or crucified. Throughout the period of Jesus Christ the Christians were tortured and killed by Romans. The reason they hated them so much was because of their free will and gnosticism. Jesus was a Gnostic, a creative thinker.
Ask yourself the question. Why hasn't the bible recollected Jesus's life from an early age of a child to his adult years? Where has twelve years of his youth gone?
Discover this for yourself and you will have a totally different viewpoint to what many believe is true Christian faith.
Emperor Constantine welcomed Christianity after hundreds of years of persecution by his beloved Empire against the Christians. The question here is why the sudden change of heart?
Then we must understand why the Romans felt it necessary to reform the religion and eradicated many early teachings out of the faith. The birth of the Roman Catholic Church and the reformed controlled faith system of Christianity is totally different to that of early Christian teachings.
The modern adaptation of Christianity has been reformed to serve a purpose to the Empire and of the elite, always have and always will.
For any Christian who is devoted to their church can they answer these questions.
1. Why is there no recorded history of Jesus's earlier years of youth since childhood to adulthood?
2. Why has the bible been re written so many times and why are there so many versions?
3. Why did the Catholic Church feel it necessary to ban certain books of the early Christian teachings?
The thing I recommend for people who are unsure of their religious roots and for the record this very much affects almost everyone apart from those who hide the secrets of the order, is to research, decipher and understand symbolism, geometry and gnosticism. These are the keys to higher wisdom or the kingdom of heaven. Jesus said himself, the way to god is through himself, through his methods of understanding!
Wrong. Jesus was no gnostic.
In gnosticism enlightenment and spiritual growth comes from secret knowledge. In Christianity we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. And as for knowledge "He hath shown thee O man."
God reveals himself in the Bible, especially in the life of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Gnosticism was a heresy in the early church because of the strong influence of Gnostics.
This petty little sulking god is so small he could crawal under the carpet and not leave a lump!
You all are great. I look forward to more of this in the future, but gotta go get ready for work now.
I gotcha, Cagsil. But don't you think the whole "not knowing" thing makes this all more exciting? We wouldn't have gone back and forth the way we have had it not been for "not knowing."
Actually, you're wrong.
Not knowing is what drives the human race for answers. The bible claims to have those answers which everyone seeks.
If we didn't have to deal with the pathetic notion of a "GOD", then we could have had more of a productive talk, like on real issues plaguing citizens of the world, instead of bantering back and forth, for something so stupid and not based on facts.
But, I guess I can be glad that you got something out it. How much...who knows?
Any full reading of the bible is essential to get rid of your religions. The bible clearly shows the psychology of the men who wrote it.
A lot of psychotic nonsense!
What I find completely stupid is that those who don't bother to read the entire bible, but come in here and claim that they have their belief of what's real.
If they had read it completely, then they would know that it's nothing much. Yes, it does make for interesting read, but is all based on factual evidence or doesn't match history.
So, if it's not based on factual evidence or doesn't match history as it was recorded, then it's simply a story to be understood and not to be worshipped.
No one has ever said that we ar worship a story.
Other that A few Churchs, no one has ever said to worship the Church. You switch words and meanings as much or more that the people that you chastize for doing just that.
Okay, then what would you call 'religion'? I call it a story.
It's man-made. And your agrument falls from there.
You are side steping and not answering my statement.
You said that we worship a story. We do not.
The story is flauded. The subject matter is not.
Since when were statements meant to be answered?
I'm not side-stepping anything. You worship a 'GOD' that was created by man.
The story is flawed? Therefore anything it discusses is also flawed.
If you don't like the word 'story', then pick whatever you like to call it. It's all still jibberish and rubbish.
If it was put into context properly, then you wouldn't have your faith or belief in 'god'.
Again, that leads me back to- religion wasn't in existence until man made it.
So, since man made it, you are supposedly learning from man's interpretations of what the supposed "GOD" wants done or God's WILL.
How does man know what God's Will really is in the first place?
If you can answer that without using a bible or any form of religious text...then please do so.
Otherwise, admit your wrong and be done with it.
There isn't a REAL GOD because man made it up!
Wrong. Jesus was no gnostic.
In gnosticism enlightenment and spiritual growth comes from secret knowledge.
Early teachings of Christianity was gnostic. Gnostic is indeed spirituality and I will not use the word Knowledge here because knowledge is not gnosticism. WISDOM is gnosticism. Two different meanings!!!!
Knowledge is simplistic regurgitated education which is passed down by others. WISDOM is intuition, free will of thought and comes from within.
This is where you are mistaken. Knowledge is passed down from others and is a left brain form of thinking. It makes the person look outside of themselves for answers or beliefs. This is a controlled form of faith system or thought control.
Gnostic is wisdom that is sought from within.
This is why Jesus said look within for the holy spirit, the guidance and access to the kingdom of heaven.
What people need to realise is that controlled faith systems are based on half truths and hidden messages. This is why symbolism is key to religion.
The secrets of the order throughout the ages know the true way and the ancient teachings of wisdom to connect to the kingdom of heaven or GOD source.
The bible has been reformed to mislead and throw people off track to what Jesus represented.
Jesus Christ represented free will and he was taught at an early age the secrets of ancient teachings. This is how he became a healer and performed such miracles. This can only be achieved by creative thought or divine wisdom.
People have no idea of the potential this ancient wisdom provides. This is why the human race by the billions do not use much of their brain.
I will agree with you about Religion. Religion seems to stand upon a foundation of false interpretations.
Too many people base their entire belief system upon false interpretations. We agree on that.
But because an interpretation of something is wrong does not mean that the thing being interpretated does not exist.
The story is flawed? Therefore anything it discusses is also flawed
That sounds that you are religious. "If it has A blemish we gotta kill it, caus it is worthless"
Again, that leads me back to- religion wasn't in existence until man made it flawed.
Can You or I do anything to perfection?
If it was put into context properly, then you wouldn't have your faith or belief in 'god'.
If it had been put into the proper context when those flawed people had been able to write it perfectly; then we wouldn't be having this discussion because then you might be able to understand.
Actually yes, if all interpretations are based on scripture, in other words scripture interprets scripture, then any part flawed makes the whole thing flawed.
Nice turn around. Either way, religion man made. The rest of your argument falls from there.
Your at party...they play a game (I can't remember the name of)....where the beginner starts by saying some phrase. each person whispers what they THINK they heard from the previous person. By the end, the phrase is pretty different then what it was in the beginning.
"Get to the point Stimp...." My point is the Bible is written by PEOPLE like you and I and the dude down the street. His/her interpretation of what happened (on that day in that time period) may be much different then another person of that same time period.
AND, it would be a stretch to ASSUME that just because someone professes to be religious or full of faith....MUST KNOW EVERY LIVIN' WORD OR PHRASE IN THE BIBLE. I am spiritual, can I quote scriptures, aaaahhh, nottta. Doesn't mean I don't have a strong belief system.
Do you know ALL the terms, phrases, etc in the manual that came with your car? Do you believe in our car? Then why don't YOU know how to change the oil? Huh....which reminds me....
The bible was written by over 60 men, most of whom never met each other and lived in different times and places, having no access to each other writings, which were only collated much later.
The original texts were written by hand and as each Hebrew letter has a numeric value it was possible for the scribes to check each verse was correct by simply counting the letters of each line.
If the line did not add up, they scrapped the manuscript and started again.
So forget the books being written by you and me 'dude'.
The word says:
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Which is why most disciples of Christ do actually know a whole lot of the bible, plus the fact that we actually use it in everyday life to communicate to each other and folk like you.
I bet you know how to cheat at all levels of 'dungeons and dragons' or whatever video game you play? We just choose to concentrate on better things to remember.
I was blessed with having 2 years full time (like five hours a day) bible study time before I started dealing with people like the cabal here who try to shut us up, and I imagine that most of the other serious believers here have a similar or superior time spent 'consuming the words of this scroll' (OK your starter for ten, where was that written and who said it to who?)
Hope you're better with driving cars and taking directions than you are with scripture, or you might end up in the wrong place!
Thank you for the education, seriously, these are things for which I was unaware. You are ASSUMING I am a young MALE playing dungeons and dragons (um, can you say hello 80's) and video games. I am actually a very well educated "corporate American"....I have many interests from reading, writing, hearing others out WITHOUT criticizing. I do not own an xBox or any other video gaming equipment. I am an adult educator of the programming language in which I have made a very good living. So, please don't accuse or assume anything about myself or my thoughts. I'd appreciate that. Regardless of whether I agree with you or whomever, I would NOT stretch to the extent that I feel the need to criticize others because they don't know EXACTLY what I do. I have shown respect for your input, a return on that would be phenomenal. And this my friend is why, exactly, I have been very successful in my career and the standings in my beliefs....my soft skills. Not many have those as I'm finding out very very quickly here.
My ORIGINAL point was that I don't think it necessary to know every word in the bible to appreciate it or believe in it. THAT was my point in case THAT Was missed.
Well I apologise Sir, and hope you can take the D & D remark in the humour it was intended, it was an allegory and you are correct that I assumed from your writing style that you were a young man, mea culpa, I beg your pardon! (it was the word 'dude' that fooled me)
Fact is that there are a small gaggle of people here on the forum that spend their time in attack mode to stop intelligent conversation and discussion, guess the old trigger finger gets twitchy looking out for new persona's that they keep adding to the fray!
Apologies also for missing your point, no it is NOT needed to know every word of the bible, I came to faith after seeing JOHN 3.16 scrawled on a building wall, 'weird time for a meeting' was my first thought, 'cos I'd never heard of the verse before. Some time later, in a hotel room at 3.30 am with no satellite, I found the only reading material, a Gideon bible, and found John (my namesake) to read, and realised that I had a problem!
Took me another 18 months to solve my problem! - but that one verse changed my life.
Hope we have made amends, and you enjoy posting to the forum, watch out for the sharks!
BTW: Yes, I do quite well driving my new Mercedes....it gets me where I need to go via the navigation system. Thanks for your concern on that, I appreciate it.
I wanna play a lil game: this is a game where we all get to play God for a lil bit -- meaning we'll be in the realm of the known instead of the unknown.
Now, let's say I have a kid. I tell the kid not to jump inside of a volcano because if they do, they'll get incinerated by the lava and die pretty painfully. If my kid still jumps in it anyway, does that make me a bad parent? Does that make me not good or unloving? Well, since we're all God right now, we know what'll happen in consequence of jumping into the volcano, but the child's living in the realm of the unknown and doesn't really know what'll happen. It's up to the child to take my warning or not. Guess what? For simplicity's sake, we're all playing the character of child being told to not jump into the volcano.
And this is only considering the lake of fire aspect of it. What if I was tell the child if you live your life til you die or I come back from preparing this lavish and lush pad for you -- whichever comes first -- without jumping into the volcano, I'll give you a mansion, you'll never get sick, never be in any pain, never be sad, and will always have perfect health? Does that make me not good or unloving?
I remember somebody said using fear to coax one into obedience isn't a real God at all -- shout outs to sandra rinck, I believe. Don't parents do that all the time? I mean going back to when you were a baby and learning how to conduct yourself in the world -- there wasn't much logic at all. It was just pain vs pleasure. Some aspect of fear will definitely be encountered by the child in consequence of the parent during the earlier forms of behavior modification. If that's ok with the parent's, why do we have a problem with God doing it?
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