-I asked this question in a previous forum post and didn't get any responses. I shall try again. lol
-Why would God use divine intervention to write/influence the bible and not use divine intervention to save innocents from dying?
mmmmmm...... I am pretty good with the Bible and I am not going to push my beliefs but seemingly since AtomsWifey appears to believe she has knowledge I will let her answer that one.
AEvans, thanks for posting that. Very sad. Many unanswered questions in life. If something was truly divine, I think it should explain everything instead of some things. I don't think the divine would cover the minor things and leave out the important questions in life.
Should we be perfect and listen to the divine intervention we would not have this suffering.
But no, we will be stubborn and live our lives the way we chose. God gave us free will and he won’t take it back. When we ask God to come into our lives; at the point where we realise we cannot attain holiness by ourselves, then and only then is there a life changing moment. Should the whole world do it? We would have a world of people that are loving, kind, caring, and unselfish. We would all be trying to make the world a better place, but with Jesus directing us.
God cannot interfere, when people use their freewill to make the world the place the way it is.
God has given as choice for He is a loving God, He don't want to impose any sect of religion on us, we have to choose from good and evil, is a choice .And God has already saved us from the dungeons of the enemy if only we could receive him(Jesus) into our heart.
lol This is hardly an answer to my question.
Does accepting Jesus keep innocents from dying? No. Why is there divine intervention to accept Jesus, but not keep innocents from dying?
I expect another beat around the bush. Thanks for trying.
This universe is in perfection its is arrogant to think we know some other souls purpose on this planet.
It's arrogant for your to think the universe is perfect. It's also assuming not to ask questions.
I never said dont ask questions.Once you gain enlightenmnet or make contact with god you will understand the prefection till then your ego will not allow it.
I think God would use divine intervention in writing the bible, but not in saving the innocent because the bible itself is meant to be a divine collection of text. It is written to help us make decisions but doesn't directly affect the natural order of things.
Saving the innocent, I think would affect the natural order of things.
Besides I believe a death of someone truely innocent and of someone who has a true faith in God should be celebrated. This world that we live in can be a hard and unforgiving world. When you go home to the lord and step into his eternal light this world becomes nothing.
I think that we let the loss of an innocent person affect us for very selfish reasons. Don't get me wrong I don't believe we do it on purpose. It's just something we do naturally. I think we do this because when someone dies thy take a part of us with them.
We interact with all individuals differently and therefore that part of us has died when someone has passed on.
When someone innocent passes I think it is a blessing and not something meant to hurt us, for there is nothing to be missed when leaving this world only to be gained in the next.
You said a lot of things that made sense after you said "It is written to help us make decisions but doesn't directly affect the natural order of things."
Very huge error. There have been countless wars and innocent deaths for disagreements over the bible, faith, God.
Nashville you have a nice understanding and there is no error in what you said.
There are lot of errors !!! what's wrong with you today mohitmisra? It's because it's Saturday ?
He said it perfectly if one understands death which is something most do not then one will celebrate someones death and not mourn it.
will start with some beers soon Saturday night is just starting
Beers !! So you're human after all! Maybe you're mistaken in your believes, jus as many human beings that are
It is only relieving to those that die. It's not very relieving to those left behind. It ruins many lives when they can't understand why an innocent loved one died for no given reason. Did your enlightenment not see that?
there is no such thing as death, one cannot die
You dont know the meaning of enlightenment which answers many questions and does not make one primitive like you.
You also have no idea what death is .
Why don't you show us ? By the way, I like being primitive. I'm a beast !
Didnt say this to you as you joke around but dont get rude
lol you are very ignorant in your assumptions of me. I know I don't know death, I haven't died yet unlike you enlightened one.
You are a wannabe prophet. Basis? Your preaching of enlightenment, then sending e-mails trying to sell your book. You need to read more before you write your ignorant assumptions. I know nothing as you know all. Your enlightenment fails you again. Choose your battles more wisely.
Well ,he has been wise enough as not to send me any E-mail. Thanks God!
I know I don't know death, I haven't died yet unlike you enlightened one.
-exactly so learn from me rather than trying to tell me didn't you learn that when you got enlightened crap.
I gifted you my book and of the the greatest sins is being ungrateful.
Your enlightenment fails you again. Choose your battles more wisely- you admit you don't know the meaning of enlightenment so why dont you just zip it.
lol gifted your book? You truly are ignorant. You are wrapped around your twisted idealogy of enlightenment. Do you think you have died and came back?
Your enlightened preaching fails you again. Go hustle your books to someone else.
You have no idea what god is or enlightenment or death, don't get angry with me because I do.
Meditate, contemplate and find this truth for yourself.Right now you actually like being ignorant , hopefully with time you will seek knowledge.
Its took me years of my life to put my book together and after sending you a copy for free all I get is insult and attitude, totally ungrateful human .
@ total ungrateful human. I seen a link to amazon with a price for the book. You never answerd the question. Have you died and came back? Is this your enlightenment? I look forward to an enlightened answer.
If you wasn't so set on your ideaology to think you know all, you might learn something. You are not the chosen enlightened prophet. I seek knowledge from those that are knowledgable, not those that "think" they are knowledgable.
The amazon link is my signature, the ebook is a gift.
Yes I died and came back.
I don't need your acknowledgment as I know who I am. You are no one to decide who the prophet is or isnt as you have no qualifications and very limited spiritual knowledge.
"It takes a master to understand a master "Guru Nanak
If I was not knowledgeable I would not be ranked alongside the Holy Bible and Holy Quran, ranked in Top 10 philosophy-Religious, top 10 spiritualism and top 10 poetry-Inspirational and Religious.
atomswifey answered your question correctly but you said I don't see the answer and that's its a wrong answer.The problem is you will not understand even if you were given the right answer.
To be honest, I don't care what your book is ranked. I'm not impressed. You are trapped in your idealogy of enlightenment that your masters have taught you. lol
Please quote where she answered my question.
You have not literally died and came back. If you believe this, seek a psychiatrist, not a prophet. You believe you are a prophet don't you?
Respect yourself and you will have respect for others.I dont have a master.
You don't have to believe me and I don't need your advice .You dont have any knowledge to impart to me or anyone regarding the spirit.
Another cop out. You didn't answer me. You believe you are a prophet don't you?
I know I am .
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1--[Imagine being able to carry an electronic Bible around with you wherever you go. The Holy Bible, King James Version, is now available as a plug-and-play Multi-Media Card for Palm® OS handhelds. With Franklin's legendary search technology, it's like having an instant concordance - you can find any passage<b><tt> ...</tt></b>]
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Need more proof?
lol are you not the slightest bit curious how I was right in my assumption of you believing you are a prophet? How did I know that when you haven't written anything before now claiming to be a prophet?
It's because you are predictable. How's that for prophecy?
Its all bouncing over your head , give it time and some meditation, you are not ready to understand spiritual truths as yet.
But the time apart is only for a season. I know it seems much longer but it really isn't.
I know that pain.
I know that hurt.
But I also know the joy I feel when I think about the reunion. I know the peace I feel when I think about the pain being gone, the tears being gone. The joy and laughter they are experiencing with God.
How amazing that all must be. How can one even put it into words?
Being in the arms of our creator. Wow. The human mind cannot even fathom it.
And yet our innocent ones are experiencing it. That is really amazing when you think about it.
How special is that? How rewarding as a parent to know your child will never have to face fear. Will never again have to deal with pain or illness. That child is living and breathing an everlasting life of peace and comfort, of joy and laughter, no not just joy, extreme joy and extreme laughter from extreme happiness!
Is there any comfort in that? I think there can be.
I hope my words here helped somewhat.
I didn't say there wasn't comfort in faith of a better afterlife. Very much comfort. I'm saying that no one knows the afterlife. Only assumptions.
No. Rewarding, as a parent, is seeing your child face fear and conquer it, and make his/her way as an adult in this world. There is nothing rewarding in the death of your first-born.
So you say. But you don't know. And the chances are that you are mistaken.
wow how rude
how utterly and completely rude and obnoxious.
How can anyone have respect for someone who would take what I just said up there and turn it into what he did
just to disagree with me! wow.
really nice man
I have to go now before I forget my faith on this guy!
You are twice mistaken then, because I was not being rude. I was merely pointing out that there is no certainty of life after death. You believe in it. I don't. Nothing rude there.
And when I said there is nothing rewarding in the death of your first born, I too was speaking from experience. Age 24, on a motorcycle, nearly three years ago. I'm proud to say he was a freethinker like his father, and much better looking!
How rewarding as a parent to know your child will never have to face fear.
How rewarding that your child will never have to face fear? Facing fear builds strength. Facing a fear is a life experience that completes a person's character.
How rewarding is it when you put your child in the ground? There is no reward for that. You've got something wrong with you if you are celebrating the death of a child.
We do not celebrate something like that and I never said that!!!
Read all and not some to debate this with me please
I certainly did read it all. Three times. I'm not hear to simply spout my opinion.
I came back this morning to apologize for getting personal. You don't seem to realize what a raw nerve you have touched with this subject, but I should not have said there is something wrong with you.
However, if you are offended by Paraglider "just to disagree with me. wow" then I think I am exiting this conversation. There is absolutely nothing obnoxious or remotely rude about what he said. May I suggest that if you are offended when people disagree with you, don't put your idea out in the first place. Google the word DEBATE.
Have a nice day.
I believe He does just not always in the way we would think.
Sometimes God intervenes by taking someone home to be with Him.
It is so very difficult when losing a child, and that is an understatement.
But there is hope and and peace in knowing that they are in the most capable hands any of us could ever imagine.
Suffering comes from life in this world of sin. Sin, not those that sin, but sin itself is an infectious plague. Its symptoms vary and can be found on anyone. These symptoms are suffering, illness, death. Not that any of us deserve this, but it is that sin knows no bounds here on this earth and thus its symptoms spread to yes even the innocents of the world.
God removes the suffering, relieves the pain by taking them home to be with Him.
Now we come to why it is that sometimes we see children suffering with diseases like cancer and others and why God does not stop that from happening.
This is a more difficult question to answer. But I will try. For one I think it is because that as a result of sin bringing with it suffering and illness, disease is another one of those that was brought.
It infested our planet as satan uses it to attack the body of Christ as well as the body of unbelievers.
Lying to people about it. Deceiving people into believing that God is unloving because He allows it.
But I think God reasons, if He destroys all that is evil, that would include all of mankind. Someday, I believe this is exactly what is in Gods plan.
To end all the suffering and sin God will destroy it.
Not that He intends to destroy all of us like we never existed. But to draw man into judgement and reward.
In showing man the horrors of what sin has done to this world through the eyes of His most innocent in it, God beckons the world to turn away from it. The world has refused.
So God allows it to run its natural course.
Not that God should want for any innocent to die so horribly. But we can see where God is very understanding and sympathetic to the parents of these children. As He was a parent of an innocent who was brutally murdered in this world of sin.
And just as God had a plan and purpose for this evil to be turned around for good, so too is it that the evil these innocents have be shown and endured will be in Gods ultimate plan for the good that is to come.
Thats what I believe anyway.
I'm sorry, I didn't see an answer to my question.
God lets children die of diseases to teach us lessons of sins? He would save the children if we all believed the bible? lol
No that is not what I said.
God does allow it for that reason along with many others. His plan and purpose is to end it all.
And He will.
God allows it because to destroy all suffering, all sin, He will have to destroy all of us. One day and that day is coming He will do that very thing.
Each day we are given here is a blessing of His control thus far with sin. It is because of His own sons suffering and death that we have these days.
Look at Gods judgement for sin in the Old Testament.
God has not changed.
He hates sin.
And why? Because of what sin has caused.
what evilness it brought with it and brings with it.
Sin is running its natural course. Soon God will put a stop to it. Just as He did in the days of old.
The flood was just that. Sodom and Gomorrah was just that. And soon we will see Gods Wrath once again unfold as it has to in order to destroy sin. And then we will have our new beginning.
Those that we love who have been taken up with Him will be reunited with family and friends.
Why would a divine being need to destroy all for a new beginning? Why wouldn't the divine being only wipe out the bad ones? Then the divine being wouldn't have to start from scratch. Don't you think a divine being would realize this when a divine beings creation realizes this?
This divine being created everything perfect.
Man had a choice in two trees
One for life eternally with all that is perfect forever. orrrrr,
the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Man lusted after that knowledge and accepted the consequence of not living forever in all that perfection.
Sin took its course.
God divinely intervened and took upon Himself the sins of the world.
Thus making a way for man to once again have that choice.
Man sometimes chooses life, sometimes chooses death. Sin still runs its natural course.
This in no way pleases God.
God will destroy it all.
God will start a new
With all those who have chosen life.
do you destroy a garden over grown with weeds?
Would you plant a new garden with fresh seed?
God will refresh His garden with fresh seed after he plucks out all the weeds.
lol you contradicted yourself. You said God will destroy all and start new. Then you said he will only pluck the weeds. Why would a God need to destroy all when he has the ability to pluck the weeds? Work smarter not harder.
I did not contradict myself, you misunderstood me. I said God would destroy all of sin, all the weeds, all the evil and start over with the ones who have chosen life (the fresh seed).
new cultivated ground which is sinless.
Alright, Why didn't God just create everyone without sin to start with? If he knew people would sin before they sin, why create them? Entertainment?
God created humans because He loved them. He gave them free will to make choices out of love for them.
Would you rather He make mindless robotic machines programmed to do good only, to love Him?
man was given the gift of free will. It is a gift and sets us apart in creation.
God wanted for man to make the right choice, man didn't. So God compensated for this. He reconciled Himself to man once again. Making the way for man to choose to do the right thing because again, He loves us!!!
You seem to want to debate and say it is Gods fault man sinned, Gods fault you sin.
You are trying to justify your sin by saying it is all Gods fault for making you prone to sin or for creating sin itself.
God did not create sin.
God did create both good and evil. But God is just in both. Man isn't.
satan fell into the unjust form of "evil" which became his sin.
A good example is this: God is justified in His jealousy, we are not.
God is perfect, we are not.
If we were perfectly justified in all things as God is, then we would be justified in both good and evil but we are not!
Sin is just that unjustified evil. And it has spread into this world through man, not God!
If everyone believed the bible as you suggest, we would all be robotic. Do you not understand this? The bible is a contradiction to individualism. You can come up with "interpretations" or "assumptions" all day. Reality is that you know nothing. You have faith that you know something.
The Bible gives many accounts of God's divine intervention on behalf of people, and He is still intervening in the affairs of mortals. As long as the earth, as we know it, exists, He will do so.
Um alright, this contradicts free will. Next interpretation?
No, this does not contradict free will.
How does intervention not contradict free will?
How does intervention contradict free will?
Why answer a question with a question? How does it not contradict free will?
First of all there is no evidence of divine intervention.There is no way one can prove anything about divine intervention unless if one simply accept the fact that there was a divine intervention.Secondly, if I accept the fact about divine intervention about the writing of bible then perhaps sending the message of god to us was the one and only purpose.I think time has come to think more about that if there were really any divine intervention.
The only question of divine intervention is why we humans have conscioous/subconscious thought with ability to teach/pass it to future generations while no other known animal life has this ability. Why do we need and want to know why to live when other animals are simply content with life.
It's our consciousness and the power of logical reasoning what bug us the most about some questions which has no answer and i can confidently say that no one will ever find any answer about divine intervention.No other animals have the power of self respect and more over we have a suspicious mind that's why we always try to find evidence to support our point of views.Actually no one want to see that his believe system is getting shattered no matter if you are a believer or non-believer.
First, I would ask what is your definition of an innocent? There are examples in the BIBLE; which I won't quote unless you really want me to, where GOD said he would curse generations.
Second, how do you know he doesn't use divine intervention all the time? There are plenty of people who say they have been saved as a direct result of GOD's intervention.
Maybe your human definition of innocents, aren't GOD's definition of innocents.
Lastly, the word of GOD can't even be compared to "innocents." He used divine intervention in the BIBLE, because that is how he wanted the word of GOD portrayed. The BIBLE gives many examples of human disobedience, even by those of the strongest faith (The cock will crow 3 times before sunrise, Judas etc..)The fact is GOD sent his only son Jesus to die for our sins. Jesus went around and told everybody what he was here to do, and to have faith that everything would be ok. He also let them know the rules that they were to abide by, and that all Christians would suffer in human form, but would be rewarded in his father's kingdom if they kept their faith.
So, the short answer is depending on your faith divine intervention does or does not happen.
There is no such thing as Divine Intervention. This is a concept that was made-up by the Catholic Church fathers in order to get the blind sheep to believe everything in the bible and eliminate all doubt. If a Gawd intervened in the writing of the bible he’s pretty dumb. There wouldn’t be in scientific errors and other mistake.
The Five oldest bibles on the planet are totally different than the ones used today. A side-by-side comparison has shown that there are many interpolations and also removed texts. A good example is Mark the 16th chapter. The oldest copies of Mark end at the 8th verse and the modern day bibles end at the 20th verse which is an indication that 12 verses were added at a later date.
I believe that God uses divine intervention to redirect mankind toward HIS purpose for mankind.
He does not interveign only for the selfish wants and or needs of the individual. Can if he wants to but his main goal is to reach the end as he has designed. Which is for the better good of the majority.
Why do you want to know?
What is your motive?
that is what I asked her
Why she asked the question the way she did and then argued the point.
Is the question not straight forward?
Sure I can read the question, and still ask...
Your motive to know is?
Is someone suppose to believe that if you got an answer you "found acceptable" that you would suddenly believe in GOD?
Just like a religious mind, fumble around a question you don't have answers for until you think of an "interpretations" in your entrapped mind.
I'm looking for an answer with logic. There is obviously no logic in any of the answers I have received. I believe the logical, not the irrational.
HE has a free will to do whatever HE pleases and who can question anothers free will?
Does anyone run around questioning yours?
You would just laugh.
Many question my free will. Why do you think we have government and laws? Free will is regulated to what is legal. I do laugh at the government very often.
The question doesn't make much sense from either the theist or atheist standpoint. Why would the atheist ask such a question since he does not believe in God (unless it's another cheap attempt to entrap believers in one of those "where did Cain get his wife" questions)?
And why would a theist ask such a question? For the theist, the answer is "God has a sufficient reason for the use of divine intervention in some cases, but not others." The biblical analogy of such a question is the clay arguing with the potter, saying "why have you made me this way"?
lol you put more work in analyzing the question than you did answering.
Well, the answer is in that "analysis," but if it's too much reading for you, I can shorten it.
The answer is really tOOooo simple to comprehend.
If your lifestyle is under the umbrella of Gods
protection, then he interveins very often.
If your life style is out side the umbrella of his protection then he does not intervein as often
He also knows when his intervertion will change nothing.
The clay argueing with the potter is not an answer to my question. Just a bible quote your religious mind is limited to.
God is managing us in different ways and as far as our understanding goes it looks like He aims at making us more concious. We cannot fully understand the ways of God because of the differences in the magnitude of the minds between us and God. But as far as we understand we cannot expect God to act as per our wish or our version of rights and wrongs. He is the king and He decides the rules. All we can see is the general trend of action of the superior mind over us and it appears to be in our favor. Therefore it would be reasonable to continue our quest to understand Him more and choose to be in alignment of His thoughts like a son towards his father.
We are creating miracles that an imagined god apparently could not. He apparently got DNA messed up. We are fixing DNA for example.
We or man just discovered DNA in 1953 while man has been around for millions of years.
There is order in what seems like chaos but we don't have the comprehension or the ability to see things properly .
Quantum science is showing things in such a different way and correct way something we never understood before.
I assume when you use the term "innocents" you are referring to minors? He is not the cause/reason for death (ever) sin is the cause and that is something we bring on ourselves. He is there with those children and maybe the question should be; why can't we as a people live our lives the way he instructed to prevent the problems we have created ourselves?
Just because. Heck, I would if I could. That may be dangerous though. :s
My answer, simple. If he would, it would be for his own pleasure.
'Saving the innocent, I think would affect the natural order of things. '
Do you have a mind ?
'Besides I believe a death of someone truely innocent and of someone who has a true faith in God should be celebrated. This world that we live in can be a hard and unforgiving world. When you go home to the lord and step into his eternal light this world becomes nothing.'
Why live it, then ?
why did you ask this question?
Are you really seeking an answer or are you only seeking to mock and debate?
I wonder not because you might disagree with me or anyone else for that matter, I ask this because of your lol's.
There are people who have lost loved ones, and children like myself who would not appreciate a serious discussion like this over thrown by tee hee's and ha ha's over a an analogy misquote!
I being one of them!!!
I appologize for your loss.
The lol's aren't personal, I just find it entertaining when someone believes they have all the answers to life from reading the bible.
I accept your apology
but I think its distasteful to entertain yourself at the expense of someone who has gone through something like that.
My only suggestion is that if you want to debate the issue of someone believing the Word of God and thinking the answers to life are in it, then pose the question that way.
I think that would be reasonable and wouldn't be out of line if you are really wanting to know why that is anyway.
AW, did you lose a child? OH, no... I am SO sorry. Words cannot express my sentiments right now. I am literally sick for you.
Its ok sweetie really.
Like I told her, I know where he is and who hes with.
This is what I meant when I said earlier that we all come here with histories no one can possibly be aware of. This is the perfect example of that, huh?
i honestly don't think that god has anything to do with the planet at all.what happens, happens.....i am not trying to be mean but this is a question that will never have a definite answer.
but of course this is just my opinion
I share a lot of myself with people but there are some things too personal.
God opened this up for a reason. I thought the one who had started this had suffered that kind of loss as well.
My goal was to comfort her with the truth as I see it. But Gods I think was to open hearts with the truth of it all.
Hello, friend. Missed you on Hubs last night.
missed you too
I had my 16 year old at the ER with an upper respiratory infection and bronchitis. Yuck! lol
I almost lost him too at just a few days old. See, I know not everyone will believe this, but it is so true!
I have heard, like not just in my head, but in my ears, God's voice!
And I mean to tell you, He is very real!
The first time I heard this was when my 16 year old, at the time he was a few days old had to be air lifted to another hospital because his platelette count was dangerously low.
Just by touching him he could have started to bleed to death!
I was in hysterics! I told God flat out, you take him, take me too or I'm coming anyway.
On the way while the flight crew had him, me and my friend and her husband drove.
They wouldn't let me on the flight, too many people as was. They even had the doctor fly in with them to get him!
Ok, so here we are in the car and I am sobbing, I mean sobbing like I had never sobbed before. I was in the backseat all alone. Ok so I am sobbing and praying and praying and sobbing.
All of sudden I heard this male voice and I mean LOUD
and it said,.
my daughter, your faith will heal your son!
three times He said this to me. And I mean, he said it! Not oh you think you heard something, or you had this thought... NO! I heard it!
ok, so after the first time, I got kinda quiet, I was a little frightened at first really. lol I mean its not everyday you hear something like that right?
Ok so then when I heard it again, I had already stopped sobbing and knew who it was that had said it.
Now these friends I was with, were not believers at all! (Bear) that was the nickname of my friends husband was real heavy into cocaine and other drugs. My friend, was real heavy into other things of the world as was I. I had a background in faith, but the two of them.
OK my friends mom is a lesbian and atheist. My friends dad was in prison for dealing crack and he too did not believe.
Bear had no upbringing in faith either. I am telling you this so you don't get the idea that they had somehow done this.
Ok so here I am in the backseat and I look up front and Bear is looking at my friend and talking about I don't know what and then all of a sudden I hear him say, look back there, she stopped crying, is she alright?!
My friend did and saw just sitting there, not a tear with a smile on my face.
She looked at me really weird like and said, uhm, are you uh, ok? For a minute I didn't say anything and then I just said softly, yep and nodded my head.
They asked me in the elevator on the way up what happened?
I told them only that I prayed.
It wasn't until days later that I confided in my friend about all that happened.
Oh!! And btw, my son is 16 now and plays football for his highschool!
Sorry this was so long just wanted to share it
Praise be to God for taking care of your son. And you. So glad he is ok.
You're right, not everyone will believe this. Personally, I have never heard God's audible voice. I have heard Him clearly in my spirit, though. A few times.
And I know He speaks audibly as well.
With all due respect, why do you think God would favor 1 of your children to save them and not save the other?
And you asked that in total what????
He favored them both!
He favored one in taking him home to be with Him!
He favored the other in granting me time with him here!
He saved them both!
My 16 year old is a living breathing testimony of Gods Awesome power!
He walks and talks the faith my dear! He's saved!
My other was not at the age of accountability. He is saved too!
He is with God, in the Lords hands!
So I count both as saved and bought with the blood of Jesus and favored as such!
You showed No respect whatsoever. Your question was downright tacky and unnecessary. But I know you could care less, so long as you can try to get your point across. Which is no point at all really....
Your ignorant assumption is tacky. It's not my fault that it doesn't make sense for a divine being to intervene 1 life to live here and not intervene the other. A proven that divine intervention does not exist accept to those who wish to live a blind faith.
Facing a fear is a life experience that completes a person's character
boy is this how far we come?
nobody should know fear
one day we will a life absent of such things
I keep being asked what is the hidden agenda in the question. lol
Is the question that complicated to find an "interpretation"? lol
This is all we have are theories and interpretations. The bible believer fails to understand this. You along with me know nothing of why. There are only guesses and interpretations. No absolutes.
I see it very arrogant when a believer writes something as an absolute based on their individual belief. Even your individual belief is not an absolute, so how can the interpretations be an absolute? lol
Divine intervention would be a real god feeding the starving children and protecting the vulnerable.
Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any religion threads.
Science is a strange concept. Atheists love it because it gives logical reason to being and matter. Theists like it but are more open minded to parascience or to paranormal phenomena which seems to always push the limits of logical sciences.
Divine intervention raises a lot of questions such has -
Are we humans all freaks of nature trying hard to be normal according to known laws of science or are we all avoiding the true nature of being which can only be explained in accordance to the pseudoscience fields which try to explain things that happen when matter meets anti matter or when the sixth sense kicks in.
Dark matter is the quintessential element and it is the stuff of the ethereal which even Plato and others concerned themselves with. Why did they keep it so secretive ?
Why would God use divine intervention ?
Because we can't....or maybe we can through prayer and meditation but yet we don't.
My question really is whether or science is magick.
We know that through controlled chemistry and the application of formulas that we can produce certain things. It has built all the man made stuff that we have. So in a sense science is magick. But is there magick in parascience.
I've played with a Ouija board once and I know there is magick in the paranormal. I'll never go there again.
If the question "Why would God use divine intervention?" was meant to draw a different type of answer such as -
To cure the ill - to bring me luck - to save my dog - etc...
Then I guess I missed the boat again...
Heck by this point I've missed the boat so often it doesn't even stop at this port anymore.
Sort of the same story with God.
I've missed the point of the magic so often he's gone on to better fishing grounds.
I believe in devine intervention. For example, last week, when the Patriots were losing the game up until the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter, Then Tom Brady steppped up to the line and drove his team to within one score of winning, but they needed a miracle to get the ball back, with only 2 minutes remaining. So God intervened, and caused the punt returner to drop the ball. The Patriots went on to win by 1 point.
If we are a believer.... of course if you are not no point reading this...
We believe he intervened lots of times in the past....
Flood being one of the most well known times. In the bible it tells us god made a rainbow to promise he would never flood the earth again,
Every time i see a rainbow, i think of the flood, and know god is watching over us, he will intervene, i believe it, he will
That may be a hard sale in the Philippines at the moment Brenda.
I know what you are saying,,,,,,, i just have this little world that i live in...... I know there are so many things going wrong everywhere, so much suffering, but we are not robots. Innocent people, religious and non religious people suffer everywhere. I do believe god is watching, and he does have a purpose, and a lot of things are brought upon us at mans hands not god's...... i know you do not believe earnesthub, but i have to.....
The Genome Wager is an interesting subject that you guys should look up. It's a bet b/w contemporary science types that will be settled in 2029. The scientists are borderline freaks if you consider that they study the parapsychology of DNa. Cutting edge science.
Can the DNa of an egg predict the development of an embryo ?
I guess the human wantabee gods are in no more of a hurry than the one from the ethereal.
2029...I won't be around physically to see the results unless some genius flukes out a method of extending life.
Maybe I oughta change my understanding of what the overlord is and put my faith in men.....
Bullshit, Phoney, Favored, Arrogant, Ignorant.
That was the short version.
Pretty naive, man you have a lot to learn.
He's frickin god - he can do whatever he wants for whatever reason he wants... maybe he throws a bit of innocent deaths in just to stir crap up, it's less boring.
In all seriousness, if he is the god according to the bible, and there is a heaven in hell - maybe the 'innocent' were on their way to doing a terrible sin, so he saved them from hell by taking their lives?
marinealways24 hasn't even started on the path to knowledge .
I choose the path of sanity and logic. A path you haven't discovered through your enlightened prophecies.
Strange that you are ignorant that the very word logic is taken from the Greek word "LOGOS" which is the term for WORD that is found in
In the beginning was the LOGIC (WORD) and the LOGIC (WORD) was with GOD and the LOGIC (WORD) was GOD.
THE LOGIC IS GOD and HIS LOGIC is infinite, so I will be interested in what HE has to say and HIS LOGIC long before I ever ask you.
The mind of a man cannot comprehend all of the vast LOGIC of GOD and you find it foolishness because you do not understand THE LOGIC.
You are an Idiot.
You do not understand that everyone has a different logic. This is too complex for your simple religious mind. I notice you didn't quote "John" using the word "sanity". Maybe because he had none like yourself.
You were the one that started this thread, weren't you? Is this the best we're going to get out of you or is this it?
I notice you didn't quote the entire thing.
Just like a religious mind, pick and choose.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.
Jhn 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness hasn't overcome it.
Jhn 1:6 There came a man, sent from God, whose name was Yochanan.
Jhn 1:7 The same came as a witness, that he might testify about the light, that all might believe through him.
Jhn 1:8 He was not the light, but was sent that he might testify about the light.
Jhn 1:9 The true light that enlightens everyone was coming into the world.
Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn't recognize him.
Jhn 1:11 He came to his own, and those who were his own didn't receive him.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name:
Jhn 1:13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jhn 1:14 The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jhn 1:15 Yochanan testified about him. He cried out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me, for he was before me.'"
Jhn 1:16 From his fullness we all received grace upon grace.
Jhn 1:17 For the law was given through Moshe. Grace and truth came through Yeshua the Messiah.
Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
Jhn 1:19 This is Yochanan's testimony, when the Yehudim sent Kohanim and Levites from Yerushalayim to ask him, "Who are you?"
Jhn 1:20 He confessed, and didn't deny, but he confessed, "I am not the Messiah."
Jhn 1:21 They asked him, "What then? Are you Eliyah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No."
Jhn 1:22 They said therefore to him, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"
Jhn 1:23 He said, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way of the Lord,' as Yesha`yahu the prophet said."
Jhn 1:24 The ones who had been sent were from the Perushim.
Jhn 1:25 They asked him, "Why then do you immerse, if you are not the Messiah, nor Eliyah, nor the Prophet?"
Jhn 1:26 Yochanan answered them, "I immerse in water, but among you stands one whom you don't know.
Jhn 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, who is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I'm not worthy to loosen."
Jhn 1:28 These things were done in Beit-Anyah beyond the Yarden, where Yochanan was immersing.
Jhn 1:29 The next day, he saw Yeshua coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jhn 1:30 This is he of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who is preferred before me, for he was before me.'
Jhn 1:31 I didn't know him, but for this reason I came immersing in water: that he would be revealed to Yisra'el."
Jhn 1:32 Yochanan testified, saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending like a dove out of heaven, and it remained on him.
Jhn 1:33 I didn't recognize him, but he who sent me to immerse in water, he said to me, 'On whomever you will see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he who immerses in the Ruach HaKodesh.'
Jhn 1:34 I have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."
Jhn 1:35 Again, the next day, Yochanan was standing with two of his talmidim,
Jhn 1:36 and he looked at Yeshua as he walked, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!"
Jhn 1:37 The two talmidim heard him speak, and they followed Yeshua.
Jhn 1:38 Yeshua turned, and saw them following, and said to them, "What are you looking for?" They said to him, "Rabbi" (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), "where are you staying?"
Jhn 1:39 He said to them, "Come, and see." They came and saw where he was staying, and they stayed with him that day. It was about the tenth hour.
Jhn 1:40 One of the two who heard Yochanan, and followed him, was Andrai, Shim`on Rock's brother.
Jhn 1:41 He first found his own brother, Shim`on, and said to him, "We have found the Messiah!" (which is, being interpreted, Anointed One).
Jhn 1:42 He brought him to Yeshua. Yeshua looked at him, and said, "You are Shim`on the son of Yonah. You shall be called Kefa" (which is by interpretation, Rock).
Jhn 1:43 On the next day, he was determined to go out into the Galil, and he found Pilipos. Yeshua said to him, "Follow me."
Jhn 1:44 Now Pilipos was from Beit-Tzaidah, of the city of Andrai and Rock.
Jhn 1:45 Pilipos found Natan'el, and said to him, "We have found him, of whom Moshe in the law, and the prophets, wrote: Yeshua of Natzeret, the son of Yosef."
Jhn 1:46 Natan'el said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Natzeret?" Pilipos said to him, "Come and see."
Jhn 1:47 Yeshua saw Natan'el coming to him, and said about him, "Behold, an Yisra'elite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"
Jhn 1:48 Natan'el said to him, "How do you know me?" Yeshua answered him, "Before Pilipos called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
Jhn 1:49 Natan'el answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are King of Yisra'el!"
Jhn 1:50 Yeshua answered him, "Because I told you, 'I saw you underneath the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these!"
Jhn 1:51 He said to him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, hereafter you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."
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The Hebrew Names Version is based off the World English Bible, an update of the American Standard Version of 1901. This version of the Bible is in the public domain.
We all pick and choose; I certainly don't have a monopoly on it. Besides, I was pointing out that you are exposing your Intelligence Quotient in calling the man an idiot. Like Earl Weaver use to say, "are you going to get any better or is this it"?
If you can't be an adequate moderator for the forums, if you are going to resort to namecalling, then perhaps you should not lead them.
Yes, I know, namecalling isn't nice. Neither is taking a partial quote.
I will say it again.
Anyone that says everyone has the same logic is an idiot.
Yes, it's not nice, which has nothing to do with what I said.
Perhaps you're right; perhaps it's idiotic. But you are not helping your position by resorting to namecalling as opposed to demonstrating the wrongness of your opponent's position.
Why don't you put some of that vaunted mental superiority that you're shoveling to good use and demonstrate the inadequacy of your opponent's position instead of just labeling it.
@Bibowen If this responce is to me I would love to do as you have sudjested. I beleive that my hubs have already done this.
I have no superiority.
I believe I am equal to everyone else, the prophets do not.
I don't think I am favored, the prophets do.
I know nothing. The prophets believe they know all.
You are humble. A true prophet is humble as well. they have concern for people beyond themselves. I could never be one.
The prophets know who they are.
They have been given instructions, that is all.
They are nothing special in and of themselves and are not mankind's puppet.
They are not superior to any of mankind.
The prophets who are true know the voice of GOD and speak it.
They think themselves to be a nobody.
They have a responsibility to account for what they must say.
Not superior to anyone else? Why were they favored and chosen?
What is your instructions from God, prophet?
Simple, speak the words given and that, only to them that have ears to hear.
I am nothing special, just a vessel.
You do not have ears to hear them, you are a mocker and scoffer.
Because I do not be "quiet" and "trust" you?
No. What man can't comprehend is the mindless hateful contradictory nonsensical crud you take as the truth.
It takes very little logic to see that a hateful imagined entity is not a god!
It really amazes me that people think religion and the bible are to define a divine creator.
The bible and religions purpose is simply for control. They have nothing to do with a creator.
The believer refuses to see this. They will only believe what they want to believe.
There is no logic to be found in a closed belief.
Ramen to that!
Having been bought up with a religious mother, I was a sitting duck for religion when in my early twenties.
I got over it. Without prior indoctrination I would never have got involved in the first place, but it did give me a strong interest in finding out about the human condition leading to an interest in what really does offer change, such as brain chemistry and psychology. Religious fundamentalists are unwell.
Human nature very often does ridicule what it cannot comprehend. It takes effort to stop and try to understand, the easy way out is for some.
The easy way out is to believe a divine being is looking out for your every move.
Reality is knowing the truth of the bible and religion and learning to depend on yourself without relying on "faith" to make your life decisions.
Reality is much harder. I would much rather be ignorant and trapped in belief. Maybe I would be happier then.
Ignorance is bliss.
Too much foolish ego if you believe you have absolute control over your life and events.Do you control your heart beat as well?
"What ever you try do your best,
Unto god leave the rest."
"The fruits or rewards are not in your hands, you do what you have to" Holy Bhagwat Gita
Do you think it is easier to live with or without belief?
Will you be nice? If so I will otherwise I am not interested.
Showing you proof of my works or my credibility and you keep mocking me , why? That is not being nice.
lol You call me stupid and then complain and say I am mocking you.
I will hear you out. If it sounds wacko, I will say it's wacko.
Neither have you!
It is beyond your follower mind to understand the purpose of the bible and religion.
It's purpose is to keep you from acting as an animal and give you something to believe to keep you busy.
Chop his head and grow tall you are only fooling yourself.
Write a better book if you can and prove to the world and yourself you have better spiritual knowledge or knowledge of life than me.
This is too foolish a short cut.
The prophets are fools and I am intelligent - what utter stupidity and that too on a religious forum.
lol second time I have seen the head chopping quoted. Ah, the believer limited mind.
Your belief is the only short cut. It is based on "faith".
You are too ignorant to understand that you live in a follower mind.
This all you can really say be individual and don't have follower mind. With this one sentence you believe you have destroyed all my credibility dont you?
Ten years of work all useless.
Now tell me a person ranked over the Bible , Quran and Bhagwat Gita follows who?
Who do you think I follow?
You follow belief. This is what you don't understand.
You are so idealogically locked into your belief, you failed to see grouped beliefs purpose.
With groups, you have control, individuals = no control. Doesn't take a genius or a prophet to figure it out.
blah blah blah try writing a better book if you can.
Show me proof of your intelligence through your work .
I don't follow a blind belief I know and work for god , isn't it obvious to you by now.
You work for the government to contradict individualism. I would say you have a blind belief for believing government is God.
You dont understand any conversation on this forum , you shouldn't be here as you have no knowledge to share and no inclination to learn .
lol yes, another prophet. Tell me the ways of the lord prophet. Everyone has lot to learn. The ones trapped in belief usually have more to learn.
I will NOT tell you of HIS ways because you are NOT interested.
You are NOT at all....so, "as you were"
Do or say something "divine" and I will believe you are a prophet. This should be easy for a prophet blessed as yourself. No sweat.
The LOGIC of GOD is beyond your comprehension and ability to grasp, that is why you think it is foolishness.
You are the one being laughed at and do not even know it.
No god, no sin, just the human condition.
Unlike religion it is understandable and makes sense.
"God blesses you when you are mocked and persecuted and lied about because you are my followers. " Matt 5:11
Do you even know what the word logic means in the way I am using it?
LOGOS=WORD.....Messiah is The Spirit of Prophecy.
John Wain didn't have ta tell anyone that he was tough and a prophet doesn't have to proclaim himself.
Nobody is proclaiming anything....just saying what the scripture says of me.
"For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have Messiah's mind." 1 Cor. 2:16
Did you mean John Wayne? Marion Mitchell Morrison
Wain = Wagon
I noticed you cannot refute the truth I said either....so back up.
The scripture says only a fool gets involved with someone else's argument.
lol Then what would be the point of a prophet in the first place if the prophet didn't tell people he was a prophet? Make any sense?
If quoting John 1:1 makes me an idiot.....then.....I am in good company.
It's ok, I saw on another thread that Jerami thinks Jesus told John he would live until HE returned. .....he even thought Jesus said it to Peter too.
He's a little corn~fused over in the Appalachians.
quietsand????? You have been proclaiming every kind of thing that YOU say that god has led for you to believe that scripture>>>> Have ya ever tried to read only what it says.
And if you do ever do that I would sudgest that ya start building your belief system on the ground floor. Foundation of a CHRISTians belief system should be what Christ said. then add to this what his students added to that. Does that make sence???
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