-I have had many unanswered questions that religionist like to answer as interpretations because the bible answers nothing.
I would like to play the religionist role now and answer any question that you have through interpretaton.
Just an experiment to show how the believers mind operates and will find faith or interpretation in attempt to answer a question.
So, what is your question? God's interpretation awaits to answer it.
Marine, you are loosing your ability to debate. I have provided many answers to your questions. Maybe you don't find anything outside of your mindset acceptible?
Here ya go marine.
Could we end the religious debate by simply observing the footsteps embedded in volcanic soil of a family of three?
2 adults and a child walking upright dated 3.5 Million years ago.
Is that it? Final enough for you?
some believers will say it's a set up It's not final enough I'm afraid
Well, I would have to challenge the dating. When I was a kid- the egyptian pyramids were thought to be over 10,000 years old.
the "ice man" was first said to be 40,000 years old, now he's 4,500 +/-. And I suppose they dated the volcanic soil and that is how they dated these footsteps at 3.5 million years old. But Mt St. Helens produced numbers on your carbon scale that would suggest that she blew 4 million years ago, but we know that wasn't true.
so I suppose one might challenge it.
Not the sheep though. Start following God, He won't lie to you.
Hello dear Earnest, bible gods answer has arrived.
Dear Earnest, those were not evolved homonoids, they were just tools of the devil to make you believe evolution.
Earnest, you must have faith, deny all logic and believe the bible I needed man to write for me. I don't like to write, i'm kinda lazy. Now, build me a temple.
why do you play so nasty games with your own creation? R U a sadist ?
Son, this is punishment for not following my written word. It is all done through love to let you see my word. Love cannot always be accomplished without death.
But you don't have any written word. that's men's folly.And to punish your creation has anything to do with love. Get real !!
It is the word I spoke to my chosen prophets. I created man, therefore the mans word of the bible is mine.
Son, I do not punish my creation, my creation punishes my creation.
SMALL GOD !
this is my last post, marine Good luck with the religionists
Don't leave tantrum, you have good questions.
Quiet hard to get your mental picture. As a marine I am sure you probably have some deep rooted issues. You can pretend to be an interpreter of God. I think I will go to God so he will protect me from idiots like you.
You are going to government, not God. The only idiot is your blind faith.
please, what government? I wonder if you know any of the governing societies of the time?
Any grouping of belief can be considered government. Doesn't have to have a specific name.
yeah, I know that I am done here now. Marine has no historical knowledge, no biblical knowledge and no common sense.
His cherry in life is and always will be, that the idea that God was created by a government was made up by his "individual mind". Please do not tell that to the cute child in your picture, it would not be fair to "brainwash" him.
Yeah all us marines have deep rooted issue, that's why were so crazy...anyway I'm lost now I had to go make dinner, I'll have to read some more and catch up
Can you imagition "being Love". God is Love, and because He "is" love he he cannot not love. When God told us to keep the commandments he told us because His commandments are His love to us that we might love people, the animals, the creation and everything around us. "But" on the other hand if we don't keep the commandments God in his mercy, doesn't kill us but gives us a chance to fine out about Him by the trouble that's going to come into your life. Part of His love to us comes in the form of a curse, on us, and our children, and our grand children. When we say "I love you", if its not based on His will, its not love but lust.
Gods nature is: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, meekness, tempterabce, faith.
Us without God manifests: Adultery, fornication, witchcraft, hatered, malice, sedition, competition, heretics, and other bad things. We are born with a nature contray to Gods nature so Jesus had to die that we might have the chance to be like God.
Actually, the Bible answers quite a bit. Just live by the Word and believe in God. Live by the 10 Commandments, it's easy. God answers your questions and helps you in His own time.
Do you have a specific question?
A few of them. You obviously haven't read my hubs with the title God in them. lol
But, I know all answers in this thread because I am the believer mind.
You get answers you just choose to not like the ones you get.
And not all of us believers answer in the ways you have here either!
You say you answer through the mind of a believer, but that is impossible being an unbeliever as you do not have the mind or heart of the believer to understand nor interpret scripture.
You are being deceived in your search for the truth and are accepting of mans or satans answers and being defiant of Gods answers since you know there is accountability and responsibility in accepting them.
The truth is marine, God loves you. He always has. He knows the number of every hair on your head because it is important to Him because He loves you.
You look at your baby and can feel how much you love. Gods love is even greater than that. You would not put your baby in a bubble to guard against anything happening to him. God does not put His children in bubbles either.
You made the choice to bring your baby into this world even though you know the dangers right? Why would you do that if you consider what God did in the same way as being irresponsible or bad?
Because you love right? And you realize that the world is not ALL bad. It is not all evil. There are dangers, yes, but there is also beauty and hope and freedom and love. Just as much good as there is evil. Some will fall into the hands of evil, some will not. But even if one of Gods, those who are in Christ fall into the hands of evil on this earth, we are not really in those hands at all, but Christ's.
He carries us. You see so even though there may come times when we are put to death, either by illness, or natural causes, or sin (crimes), we know all these things hold no real power over us since they are only temporary to the everlasting life which awaits us. So there is no fear in death. No fear in this life. Only peace and love in and for our God.
lol you think I can't understand your thoughts through your words?
You are very predictable. You know why? Your belief and thoughts are written in a book.
The book is not divine creation. The book is religion/government creation. You are too arrogant to realize this.
No marine it is you who are being rather arrogant here. Arrogant enough to make an absolute statement that the Bible is not divinely written or inspired. You set yourself up in here as knowing how God would answer these questions as you did not really knowing or understanding yourself as to what truth really is.
Gods Word stands up to your "tests". It does contain the answers. All one has to do is read.
lol you took the bait. The answers not always on the inside of the book. This is what your follower mind fails to see.
No the answers are there in that book and this is what your disbelieving heart and deceived mind fail to see.
You know to see the truth there is to see ALL the truth and this something you are choosing to avoid. You do not want to be accountable to God.
You are accountable to religion and government creation to control you from acting like an animal, not a divine being.
No I am not controlled by my faith, I walk in it as I choose everyday to do so.
And to interpret faith that way, would mean then that YOU who are not adoptive of faith act like an animal??
The government controls your faith. You walk as a follower, not an individual. You have no individual belief.
No, more assumptions. One doesn't need faith in a government God to act human and have morals.
But there you just contradicted yourself.
You said we believe so as to not act like animals.
But then said nobody needs faith to act human etc.
And you are right with the second part there.
You do not need faith or God to act human, to behave nicely, to love etc. I have never said to the contrary of that.
being that is true then you have to agree that us believers do not believe in God to not act like animals. The over 2 billion us us on this planet are very capable of acting in a pleasant and normal manner just as you are without religion, without faith.
So your theories about us are false. We do not have faith for the reason you stated.
We believe because we love God. We love what He did for us. Because we have come to realize that though mans perception of what is good is good it is not perfectly good and does sin and has faults. We have faults. We are fallible and in need of Gods love and mercy. His forgiveness and strength.
We believe in Him because He created us and knowing we are not superior to our creator but are in wanting to show Him love and respect in return for all He has done for us.
Not every individual can rely on themselves. This is why your belief book was created.
Most individuals cannot depend on themselves. This is why we have the bible, laws, jails. Most need something to have faith in greater than themselves.
Even the ones with faith often end up in jail.
You are still too arrogant and ignorant to entertain the thought of the bible being a government creation simply for control. I have already asked and answered your questions from your book of belief.
Why do you think some people want more government and some want less? Some individuals are more dependent than others.
Doesn't take a genius mind to answer these questions. But it does take an individual mind. Something you lack.
You are correct Marine. The bible is man made. However, the whole idea is to live your life in the best way you can, be kind to your fellow man, treat people the way you want to be treated. Just by following the 10 commandments you are leading a better life than say a serial killer, rapist etc. Semper Fi
I'm already there and it's 'cool'
Want to join in?
Nooo, I like it here in the heavens with my followers.
God is omnipresent, so he/she is in hell too. right?
Sir, I am in heaven with my followers. A great place to be. All you have to do is accept me into your belief.
Si señor! el tigre ! 'Que le hace una mancha mas al tigre' That's how we say it
yes in Spanish Tiger is El Tigre and Leopard is Leopardo but in mexico they never use the term leopard they use Panther which is Pantera.....
And this comment has nothing to do with religion or GOD..just answering the call of a dear friend Ralwus...
I'm not small, I simply don't intervene.
Oh! I see! your ashamed of your own creation, or U don't know how to cope with it !
I love my creation! If I intervened, it would be contradicting free will. I cry for my people everyday.
So you're not only small, but dumb!! Don't you know how to create properly ?
Sir, you are my creation. Who are you to question me?
I created you in my image. Who are you to judge my image?
I have a lot to question
1- what's this imperfect body you created for me?
2-and all these deseases?
3-all these'fluids' ?
6-petty hatred and envy
and so on
How am I to create my image better than I? Who are you to judge perfect? Life, love, consciousness, and emotion seperates you from an ant. I could have created you in an ant's image, you should be happy with what you have.
Hatred, lies and envy is mans creation, man was not born with these.
Yes he was born with them. they're all human feelings.
and if you can't do a better image of me or yourself you are A SMALL GOD !!!!!
Sir, I am only small in your belief. Your belief is that of the devils. Does one not truly understand love by experiencing the negative effects of hate?
So now you have taken yourself out of the role of the believer and placed yourself in being GOD???
Yeah someone who has such limited knowledge as humans only use a small fraction of their brains thinks himself so wise as to be able to respond as God?! Wow now that takes some pride and a lot and I mean a lot of ego there.
I am not playing the role of a divine being, but your biblical created God which has nothing to do with creation, but control.
Your believer follower mind that is found within the confines of a single book does not take a divine being to understand.
The only arrogance is in your belief of creation when it answers nothing but faith.
How is that arrogant??
How is someone having faith and belief in a being greater than ones self, greater than all being arrogant in that?
There is no claims of superiority here marine as all of us we believe, NEED God. He is the superior one here.
It is MANS arrogance which sets himself up higher than that of any God. Thinking greater of ones self over another's beliefs in God which is arrogant. Mocking and scoffing at God and believers is arrogant don't you think?
That you come in these forums and lay down your claims with all your smiley faces and lol's like you are so superior in knowledge to know the truth and we the believers are just blind sheep following a "book" which is in your OPINION just like any other book and not God Word. That to me is being arrogant.
Grouped belief is both ignorant, arrogant, and robotic. Not to mention it contradicts individualism.
Every person is born an individual, why do so may seek to follow anothers belief?
You do not understand the purpose of the bible. It is not to define a creator.
Hello- I found this entry interesting?
First off, let me start out by saying, I've have no religion or belief of a "higher" authority, such as "God". So, that makes this very difficult for most.
How ever, with that said, the only thing that separates HUMANS from Animals is our Consciousness. Our awareness of our own life is what makes humans special. We are the only life form on the planet that isn't guided by nature.
As for love, envy and all supposedly sinful acts, like greed, are all learned traits, brought on repetitive exposure of and can be handled through honesty.
I have learned of newly found information about ancient times of early humans, long before Christ was born, some 3000 years ago, and absolutely none of it is derived from Religion, which is a business and nothing more.
Thank you for your time
Nooooo, Don't sacrifice leopards or tigers, not a pleasing scent.
Spots and specks, no stripes yet. LOL Kind o' like jits and jottles
'Sir, I am only small in your belief. Your belief is that of the devils. Does one not truly understand love by experiencing the negative effects of hate?'
My belief is your belief. i'm your creation, remember ? or did you get alzheimer from the bunch of deseases you created ?
And love and hatred is your doing also, so you should know
I am creator of all. Belief is free will. To intervene your belief or emotions would be intervention of free will. I did not create the diseases, mans sin created them.
Knowing little to nothing of Scientology, I would guess this is what you are preaching.
Your mind is limited just as the biblical mind. In search of a belief. You are not content with open belief or an individual belief.
Belief should not be grouped, do you not understand this?
that book is another american creation. The author unknown and it's like the pre new age bible to me. It appeared in the u.s.a. around 1925 I think and it was revolutionary for the age, but now I don't think so.
You are right about the Gods Word contradicting "individualism" or self righteousness. Which is exactly what most unbelievers are guilty of. Self Righteousness. Thinking they are above being in Need of their God.
Thinking their "self" is all they need.
It is a deception.
God loves you Marine. Thats all I am going to say. He loves you and and all.
His love is greater than anyone can even fathom. Its ok that you question and wonder, I think its awesome in fact. I know GHod does too. He wants you to question and wonder and draw closer to His truth.
If that means you stay in disbelief for a time longer thats fine too. God will meet you at a time and place in life when you ready to open your heart to Him.
I think you are really smart and funny. I actually really like reading your posts though they incite me sometimes as I feel sometimes they cross the line of respect. But I do enjoy conversing with you.
you have no understanding of who the men were that wrote the bible. I would love to know what government funded the writings, why they chose the men they did, and how they got the "people" to believe it?
Biblicaly speaking, you are incredibly ignorant(as most that argue against it are). I have heard many conspiracies of the non-believers. Some crazier than others.
It just goes to show that people will believe anything so long as God is not involved. FACT
You are ignorant with no understanding of individuality.
uh huh? I dont associate nondiscipline with individuality. You are one of 3 billion.
You associate discipline within a book of grouped belief. You are ignorant to speak on something you have no knowledge of. If you were an individual, you would recognize the importance of individual belief.
I have lived without God. I was never as proud though.
Did I not accuse you of being ignorant of scripture? You are.
So why is it the bible and religion that you want to attack when you have no knowledge of the 2?
Character reflects ones individualism, maybe you want to attack character. Your character is free spirited, good for you.
there, that was easy.
I am ignorant of scripture? I have read 3/4 of your book of belief. I understand how your mind works quite well. You have a dependent follower mind.
You are the ignorant one trapped in a book of belief. You were too busy reading inside the lines, you missed the point it was written.
No marine, I worship God, not any religion(don’t confuse the two.) You worship yourself and your pride keeps you in this skeptic state, until you know God you stay in this realm unbelief and sarcastic rants. Galatians 6:7 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.” When I last spoke with you seemed as if were truly seeking truth, but your pride led your even further away from God. What's holding you back from embracing the truth of God love? Do you still have questions? I’ll do my best to answer. You scream individualism but you see now believers in the God of the bible are the vocal minority. The true individual.
We are the ones who refuse to yield to the way of this world, and stand firm on God’s promise. You are not an individual. You are along with the generation it which the bible speaks 2 Timothy 3:1-7 “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” Congrats marine your quest for individualism has backfired and you are no different than any other non-believer.
He is a sheep and doesn't know it. I like those the best.
Another ignorant believer with bible quotes. Another follower mind with no understanding of individualism.
I have read your fear driven belief. You are a robot.
In God there is no fear. The only one here who has fear is YOU.(now why don't you go google some old refuted bible "contridictions")
Semper Fi! Marine. I was a devil-dog too, born on Parris Island. Let me say, you are handling yourself quite well in this forum.
So my question: Why will God punish me for being a non-believer when he made me that way??
because you never searched for the truth. God did not make you the way you are.
Does God make you do what you do?
Are we in third grade again, or is this how you military minds think?
No wonder the marines go in first, no brain no pain.
I'm not sure. Tell me a little bit about yourself.
Just to set the record straight. I came from a Christian family. We went to church on Sundays. I was "saved" at an early age. I BELIEVED!! I read the bible and did all the things that I was instructed to do. At about 16, I started to see too many inconsistencies with religion. As time went on, it only made sense to me that god was imaginary.
Now you're going to insult the very people that sacrifice their lives to safe guard your freedom, and talk down to them, no wonder atheist have issues with so called believers like you, all you do is contradict your own message with pettiness and insults.
Is it worse to insult mans army or God?
Who are you to assume to know what is insulting to God, I don't see him striking down those you would call wicked, or stamping out any who oppose him or is it maybe that God sees farther then you and knows that in this world he has created, not you, that all people have a purpose under his will and are all, equally important to him and vital.
why would he strike them down, he loves them the same. does that mean that he will accept all of our actions?
Please enlighten me scripturally, something you have never done.
I don't quote scripture in debates anymore my friend, I'm not a preacher and would never presume to think people are too ignorant to read it for themselves. If people question what I say its on them to investigate it further, not for me to dictate it to them. I would never back up any argument with words that are not accepted as fact by those I'm debating its a pointless pursuit...then I would run the risk of becoming something I disdain and avoid. Besides I leave the scripture education to you and AW and all who have time to cut and paste. I give my sermons in other ways.
I fear you would not have the ability to find the scripture so that you could cut and paste. I think that it is better to give Jesus's testimony over mine, but maybe you are more interesting?
Look, if your belief includes making everyone feel good about whatever it is that they do, then I am sure your following will be larger than mine.
So God gave His word only for those who would maybe read it for themselves?
This is not scripturally based scott. We are to use Gods Word when speaking with unbelievers. It is meant to enlighten the truth.
Our words are fallible, Gods are not.
People can argue and debate with us all they want but the truth prevails in Gods Word.
Why are you so opposed to quoting Gods Word scott? Does it embarrass you? I don't get it. Gods Word was given to share. Jesus shared the scriptures all the time. Jesus Himself is the Word. Do we not share Him?
Is there untruth that can be found in you? Of course there is. There is in all of us. But Gods Word does not come back void. And every Word of it is true. why do you presume to know so much that you do not need to use scripture?
Every word is absolute truth because of your faith.
Absolutes require faith and ignorance to believe.
No every word of Gods Word is truth period. My faith has nothing to do with it
You are too arrogant to understand that you worship a government grouped 1 belief system.
Have them believe as 1 and they will act as 1.
You have failed to prove your points over and over. There are Christian believers all over the planet. In most of these regions of the world they are killed for their beliefs and the governments hate them for their beliefs and imprison them for it as well. They are called rebellious and traitors to their governments. How then can they be controlled by these governments in those beliefs? This makes no sense.
Christianity is hated in most parts of the world and not taught on at all by those governments. Yet Christianity has spread world wide and is in practice regardless of the consequences imposed by some governments.
Did I say all governments believed the christian belief system? Ignorant. I said why the system was created. I didn't say every government used the same system.
But yes, every government would love a one belief system. Any government that doesn't push for control is not a government.
Thank you, Scott
After reading those comments, I was baffled as to how the third-grade menatlity was projected onto ME, when mine seemed to be the voice of rational discussion. The comment was beyond insulting. It's tantamount to saying "believe in my nonsensical assertion are you are unintelligent."
You don't suppose it was because you told Marine that he was doing a good job? He has only insulted the believing mind all morning, even to the point of insulting God. So, at the point when you decided to complement that and bait me, I knew where this was going.
Now, the faithfull- i'm hurt trick. Forget that blaspheme is ok.
See how easy it is to make generalizations when someone has a title?
This is how it's so easy to figure out your titled mind and belief.
While your generalization is ignorant, mine only states that you have a follower mind and belief which is true.
We are all born sinners. ALL. God didn't make you not believe to chose not to.
ooh rah Marine. Thank You Sir. I appreciate that.
The lord didn't make you a non believer. He put his holy book there for you to find. Your free will keeps you from finding it.
Sound about right?
He is Googling right now. His theory is incomplete.
Atheism/nonbelievers religious actions- Always be sarcastic never think you are wrong. Whenever a Christian calls you out on the absolute negative of atheism/unbelief, deny and unleash heck on their character and use big font, and smiley’s call them names and insult their intelligence tell them to read a book. Never question the your pride no matter how ridiculous you sound. Show no respect after all we are just animals, right? When all else fails mock the Bible that will anger Christians and will show they are not perfect (even though no true Christian will claim to be perfect.) Stick your fingers in our ears and yell “there is no God,” to drown out all common sense. Whenever possible use words like "which god?" “sky daddy“, “imaginary sky friend,” “old book,” “Jebus” “Babble” “religious” “bigot” “homophobic” put God in lower case, Bring up old refuted bible “contradictions” deny all the facts in favor of Jesus, the biblical account of his life and resurrection. The hundreds of eyewitnesses and the fact that even other nonbelievers acknowledge that he did raise from the dead.
Atheism/unbelief is the religion that offers nothing, but the bondage to sin (Now while you Google bible slavery verses and look up a counter "arguments".) Did I miss anything? I must say you are a very devout fundamentalist nonbeliever your follow members must be proud. You are coming along nicely.
Sometimes atheist are being sarcastic, but sometimes not. They only seem that way, because of your faith.
So judging by your comment above, it would not be sarcastic for a non-believer to ask you if Jesus was a Zombie.
I don't think thats the case at all. I think nonbelievers enjoy their ability to ask a variety of questions that lack inteligence and/or to insult the believer. In any case, it is a lack of discipline.
Thats it. It's all about discipline in faith. Challenge anyone that debates your belief.
Ignorant and robotic. Belief should welcome debate, not reject it.
Debate? where? you will not engage beyond your assumptive remarks.
I asked you which government employed the men who wrote the bible? No, answer.
I asked how the message was accepted by the people of this government????????
I answered that already before. I was not alive back then. The earliest form of religion and government decided to group belief with the bible.
Why wouldn't government want a 1 belief system? Do you think government leaders like defiance?
The believer insults themselves with a robotic belief that has nothing to do with creation.
Who cares about creation? Creation has nothing to do with the message in essence which was to treat each other with dignity, respect, love and kindness, acceptance and forgiveness, and to lend a helping hand and support for the faint hearted, the downtrodden, the poor, people with broken spirits, to cure sadness and deflect violence with love.
You think proving or disproving the moment of "creation" or when it all started would somehow change the way people treat each other?
Na, atheist would shite their pants and still go one being good people just as they were before, christians would continue to try and convert people to their own ideas of worship, muslims would still insist that their religion is the truth etc...
So what is the point of discussing creationism? Who the F cares!
You would love so much to put a title on my belief or non belief. It's hard for you to figure out because I don't title my body and mind as you do.
Your dependent mind needs a title of belief to follow. My individual mind doesn't.
Keep the faith. This is what your government wants. Act as a robot.
I told exactly what you would do 35 hours ago and you didn't let me down marine. You got your dogma down. Thank you proving my point. You "individuals” are all the same. I'm glad to see you've calmed down. Good. Have a great night.
The reason I didn't respond is because your ignorance is bliss obviously.
You are content with a 1 belief system.
lol classic. I couldn't pay for this!
Now I will show how you don't answer questions.
What is good about a 1 belief system?
Didn't you start another thread about this. Do you need attention that badly. You can’t “challenge” what you don’t understand marine. Until you understand my faith(which now seems impossible). Then you'll finally ask the questions that applies to me. Now you can call me names and use smiles “individual”.
What church did you belong to?
I was Pentecostal(HOLY-ROLLER) The inconsistencies are too numerous to note. But, just an example: Why does God not materialize in front of me. As it says, with God all things are POSSIBLE. That's not consistent with omnipotence, when he doesn't materialize. I asked...and, its POSSIBLE, but it never happened in all my years. I figured out that I have been totally duped.
God is a Spirit, Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God, the Holy Spirit lives in you when you are saved. It is God's seal for His children. I wrote on the "There is no such thing as and ex Christian" it better explains this.
This is amazing to me when a person can have faith beat into their head and still individualize.
I am very interested of how you individualized when you were breeded to be a follower?
Well, I consider, when we are young, it is easy for older people to trick us. But when we become mature, it is up to us to figure out what is reasonable, and what is nonsense. Believe me, it wasn't easy. My family tried all they could to get me back, mostly by fear tactics. I surmised that if my parents, along with the school system, could get me to believe in Santa, couldn't they do the same with God? And it's true. They could as easily, and did, do the same with God. I am just a rational scientific mind.
I love it! I have much respect for you. You know as I do that some never find themselves living an entire life on a blind faith. Thank You
Wanted to add, you are very intelligent. Believers could learn a good bit if they respected your minds ability to do what theirs cannot. Instead, they would rather say the devil is responsible.
And they'll fight you to the death to hold on to that delusion. I think the whole phenomenon is rooted in fear.
My belief as well. We sound like a religion.
How big of a role do you think self awareness plays?
Self awareness is very important. I'm aware that I did not meet anyone until I came to this planet, therefore, no one can tell me that we will be in an afterlife together. But I think the one trait that helped me the most was courage, real courage. It takes a lot of courage to face your fears. As you noted, most people never will.
Now here I was defending you awhile back now you're turning to the same generalizing and insult flinging. Many believers have extremely open minds and well developed thoughts on free will, and choice and on others freedoms to do as they believe. I do not blame anything on the devil or some supreme being of evil. I think evil is in the hearts of men, neither is my faith based on fear or trying to please some old man in the sky I have no fear of God and why should I? Why should anyone? Be careful you're starting to sound exactly like the people you are disagreeing with.
I am speaking of believers of the bible. Do you believe the Bible?
Don't expect an answer from what ...Do i believe the bible? How, do I read it and follow its teachings yes I do. Do I take it all literally no I don't or believe that it was ever meant to be. the Bible is not a history book debaters but a spiritual guide. There is too much concurrent history left out of it to be used in that manner. I believe in Jesus and follow his teaching and examples, but I don't use it as a context to set myself above anyone or degrade their faith or lack there of, in fact he tells his followers not to. The Bible is not the substance of my faith but a guide to it, You take away the book and i will still believe, take away the church and I will still believe, if that makes me foolish and irrational so be it. I am living my life and am comfortable in it, As you are welcome to live yours but I'm not going to sit here and tell you or any one else that does not share my view that you are deluded or lost. That's not my place to say.
I don't want to jump to assumptions, but it sounds like you pick and choose from the bible? Do you believe in the biblical versions of heaven and hell?
I don't pick and chose I accept the whole thing for what it is, a book and a guide to right living I just don't take all of it literally as I know that often times man makes up things to explain what he doesn't know. What most of Christianity believes about Heaven and Hell is not biblical at all but influenced by Dante, and Milton. Heaven and hell are rarely discussed in the Bible and when they are their usually referred to as Hades or paradise.If you want to be literal no one is going to Heaven or hell until the events of revelations, as right now all go to Hades, waiting for that time, some are being punished some are not....The thing about free will is knowing what to accept and what not to, it's easy to preach free will then accuse people of picking and choosing when that's the very premise of it. I know what is right and helpful to living a moral just life, and what may be just a human interpretation of events beyond their knowledge.
Sir, the bible has nothing to do with a creator!
To you, that's the point...all of you are shouting your belief and view on a subject expecting everyone to agree or calling them wrong or deluded. The Bible has everything to do with "A Creator" that's what the book is about, I hate to agree with Sooner, but what book are you reading? the whole premise of the Bible is the story of the Jewish God and the creation of life, while it may be their creator it is still.."A Creator" maybe its not the one you follow or believe in, but until i see someone's God come down here I show himself I'm not going to debase anyone's God or run from mine.
Religion was around some 3000 years ago. Actually there is no evidence of man prior to +/- 4200 years ago (or the time of the flood). isn't that interesting?
No evidence of man? are you really serious or just refusing to even recognize a mountain of physical evidence of the remains of men going back ten thousand years in Europe, and the Americas.Not to mention they archeological remains of buildings in the middle east predating this so called world flood.Or the fact that the Chinese were already organized into civilizations 5ooo years ago.
Sooner - you know I respect you and appreciate the work you do, but you might want to not mention the "science" you are bringing up there. No one takes that stuff literally any more. Not for a long time. Even the Catholics.
Apart from that - Excellent work!! Keep up the fight. eventually you will have persuaded them to join us. Or at least me. ...... Great job.!!
Well, you have to go back quite far and have access to specific knowledge of the time, in order to give you the best answer. I have to admit...I have access to those resources.
However, religion does date back some thousands of years, but was formed, like government, to control the masses. Not to mention, religion collectively gathers more wealth than most nations. GOD needs money, almost daily? LOL(just kidding)
Religion is based on the supposed interpretation of ancient text, which is controlled by other upper authorities of religious faith ministries. So access you are granted is through the establish forums, such as a Bible or other scripture.
The problem here is that the interpretation is false and contradictory to that of life. Which means, religion is kill people and isn't going to change, until people see the truth.
Thank You Very Much for adding that. I'm sorry that the ones that need to see it the most will be blinded by faith.
What believers don't understand is that any grouped belief is government. Would you agree?
Let's breakdown what you're saying- Any grouped belief is government? And, whether or not, I agree?
Okay, first let's start with defining "Government", only on basics, nothing complicated: Government is Rule/Law Enforcement officials(including politicians). They set the rules/law(s).
A grouped belief: dictates rules/laws(s) or bylaws, which govern the actions of group members.
So, technically speaking- a grouped belief would be the same as Government.
Both dictate rules/laws and enforced said rules/laws.
You can debate many things, but a singular belief among citizens would be good, as long as it's constructive and productive, and indoctrinated by all.
Example: Religion already has 5 BILLION subscribers/members/believers....this is a powerful machine, but isn't utilized properly. Therefore, humanity has society, as a result. Not to mention, religion is a business and nothing more to begin with.
Another example: If there was a powerful enough individual who could unite the people of the world, under a singular ideology, other than religion, we as a civilization would be able to grow beyond anything anyone has ever seen.
World Peace would be achieveable, as long as the driving goal is seen by all, and the path made clear, it's not outside the realm of possibilities.
Can I say, some churches have so many false teachings that it becomes easy for us to walk away. It is for the individual to find truth in all things. I was dissowned by my family when I became a Historical Adventist. ohh well. is that not individualism?
With God, all things are possible. Do you understand the meaning of possible? It doesn't mean that God would reveal Himself to you. He could, but maybe he wanted you to dig deeper and not be superficial. Even Moses could not gaze upon God's face, that is why God covered him with his hand so that he could pass.
I used to ask God to reveal Himself to me. It was every time I was drunk and gazing at the stars. Now I know He is real, and I will endure the patience of this short life.
With all due respect, sir, that sounds extremely delusional. There is no god, only delusion, and delusion loves company.
My friend you were never a Christian you were just going through the motions, so to you there is no God, but to those who know Him, He is.
I know for a fact, I was a Christain for 18 years. And it is blatant arrogance for you to stand in judgemnt of me, when you were not there with me at the time. I was delusional, just like you, and I will never go back to that prison. I have the courage to think for myself now. You don't.
When you are truly a Christian Jesus Christ lives inside of you FOREVER. To be intellectually honest, you were either never a Christian then or you're not really an atheist now. I find it funny that atheist will fight tooth and nail to convince Christians they used to be like us, like it gives you justification to act the way you do. You guys just love to say “I used to be a Christian just like you” let me tell ya No, you weren't! I have no religion, I have relationship with Jesus Christ. I am a sinner I’ve lied, stolen, lusted, coveted I’ve broken all the commandants and I deserve Hell, but because God so loved the world he gave came to earth as Jesus Christ to die on the cross your all my sins and yours. I’ve been saved by the grace of Jesus Christ. I’m free! You, my friend are locked in a prison of sin. Religion can’t save you, your works can’t save you. Only the blood of Jesus. Jesus is the key.
Ps If you still believe you indeed were a Christian, that means you are now an apostate.
It is apparent that we have different definitions of the term "Christian." See, to me, my definition of a "Christian" is: One who abandons his mind and pursues an irrational philophy based on fear. One, who, despite the millions of reasons to reject this dogma as pure nonsense, accepts it, nevertheless. Yes, I was delusional; I was a "Christian."
There is no truth in your dogma, and all your answers point to delusion.
poor little sheep that got his feeligs hurt is so respectful to others.
Don't patronize me! I am not a poor little anything. And I did not get my feelings hurt. These forums are for intelligent civil people, not uncivilized, bible thumping mindless, psychotics trying to pick fights with people more learned and more mentally stable.
It is always nice to see a strong individual mind. Cheers to you.
You are an ignorant hypocrite. You are the one with no awareness trapped in belief. Sin is a fear to entertain your childish mind to follow. Learn courage.
It's just more of the same; men who title themselves believers and so claim to know the mind of God and justify their own willful violations Of his word by claiming it was all for his Good. If God is all powerful why would he need a human being to fight for him and decree his will? Oh wait he doesn't that's the point the only message that such people are putting forth is their own.
Here's an idea instead of trawling around the forums looking for non-believers to bash and alienate why don't you put your money where your mouth is and write some hubs that lift people up and proclaim God's generosity with actions, instead of spouting the same old holier then thou venom. Or is it that you really aren't interested in spreading the love of God, just your own spin on it?
Spin? interesting word to use. Especially concerning your hubs.
Marine and I have debated just fine for a while(without your spin), today he seemed more insulting. Getitrite jumped in to add to the lines.
Glad to see you here as well scott.
Well at least you got my point about "spin" everyone is putting their own spin on it, but hey welcome to America. You guys have fun I have to get back to writing...oh and my hubs do lift people up and make them feel better. not marginalized or excluded by any group.
I failed to recognize the time in history when it became important to please many? Maybe when the scales of pure teachings were compromised?
I've never made a point or habit of trying to please anyone. I make my point and say what I have to then leave it to others to accept it or not,funny though how you always bring that up whenever you address me, what exactly are you jealous of that I get along with people without trying or that I can say what I want to without fear or care to how I am perceived. Maybe that I would rather live with people then categorize them into neat little boxes that make it easier to dislike them is offending to you but honestly I really don't care. It's nice that you immediately attribute my success to favoritism then and attempts at winning friends then to the fact that people actually think I am a good writer. After all i did come here to write and make money from it, and I've never claimed otherwise.
Scott, I have indicated that you are dangerous scripturaly because you make a point to take a side, but then quickly talk about love. Blaspheme from anyone cannot reflect love.
What is love without truth?
Now I'm a blasphemer, you just can't help yourself can you? That's alright you go on and keep throwing any name on me you want and put me in any box you need to, you seem to be the authority on love and Godliness these days. But you are right I am dangerous, very dangerous because I am free in every way that you will never be, I cast off my chains long ago, and moved forward in life, I think on my own and listen instead of closing my ears to any view I don't like. I am free to do whatever I like because I know about truth and choice and free will, and because I recognize who God created me to be and have accepted it. I don't live in fear.
Well, you have identity and free spirit mixed up. You "read the bible" as earlier stated, now you are still just 3/4 the way through?
I understood it's purpose 1/4 of the way through. To group your belief and keep you from acting as an animal.
I'm sorry to break it to you that you worship a government creation and not a divine creation.
I will finish. It doesn't take a genius to see it's point. It does take an individual though. You clearly aren't an individual mind, but a dependent follower mind trapped in fear and belief from your Government created God.
I'm a follower, can't think for myself, confined, dependent minded, trapped.
and "I" want to put a name to it? I think this is a fine example of one living in a house of glass and throwing stones.
"stomp the dust even from your shoes"
it is a shame that you have closed your mind. It is sad that you did not read the scripture without your conspiracy controling you. It is a shame that you are unable to descipher character from will.
Whose will and whose character? Are you saying now that your supposed to separate gods will from his character or your will from his character or are you just saying that god has no will but doesn't lack character and you have will to act like him... what exactly are you trying to say?
some in here believe that a "free spirit" is not a trait of character, but a belief system.
The same sum that also believe that "free spirits" are the Devil?
The only belief system is the one preached or defined within a book.
Define my belief system.
You are the one that defines your mind within a book ignorant one. Your belief controls you.
two dance into the sunset holding hands and singing, "we" are individual.
I doubt you will get that, you "two" of millions just like you.
So you're God and I get to ask you a question?
Ok, of all the people on that plane why was it Ronnie Van Zant who was killed? That kind of slowed Skynyrds roll!
Sooner you really need to unload that chip on your shoulder and let go, this animosity you are always displaying is poisonous and holding you back from more. I don't know where its coming from and don't care but when you start directing it at me it becomes my problem....If you don't like people's beliefs then take a hike pal, no one asked you to beat them over the head with your narrow mind so don't be pissed when your answers are not popular.
I don't care about my answers being popular. I care about telling the truth. obviously the truth is not popular, but false teaching is dangerous. Did Jesus ever mention things like "its how you interpet it", "because God is just, there is hell. Because he is fair, it is empty.", "We are all god"
I hear and read these type of things all of the time. They are false.
my question still is, what is love without truth?
I want to talk about the love of Jesus. I will. I think I will write a hub about forgiveness and sin. But it will still have the message that Jesus taught, not my teachings.
I would love to see you write a hub on individuality.
I love how you define things you know nothing about.
Well if all you are concerned with is Jesus message then why write anything, at all, why post on these threads. If the message is that strong then why would you need to speak at all on the subject? You wouldn't that's the point. in the end you're still putting across your message, Jesus has his, its called the Bible, and it does need you to protect it, voice it, or fight for it.
I don't get your point. Why talk about love? why talk about truth?
I don't know why are we even talking about this...you seem to have a knack for swinging a subject around just when you get penned to the wall. State what you believe and go on with life or make a point. I don't think anyone even knows what you're saying anymore.
Scott, questions are asked and I try to answer them. Istn't that what we all try to do here?
Some try to debate, but I do not believe that they understand what a debate is.
Marine says he has a theory, and all I know at this point is that the "a government created God to keep people from acting like animals" and that is why the bible was written.
I still dont know what government and I still don't have one solid answer from him, and you Scott- say you don't understand me?
Sadly I can actually understand all of you to an extent because i try to step back and see where all of you are coming from to understand why you would say what you do, but some of this i see as just senseless attacks and arguing for the sake of arguing but that seems to be the norm for the forums, I've yet to really see any true debating going on since coming here.
I love how you praise your individuality.
Because I believe in God, I lose my individuality? Because you do not, you lose yours.
What is your point? Really. do you want someone to praise you because you have developed an idea(probably not your own) about a government creating the bible? that is simply your idea, but I have not heard any evidence as to why you think so.
You don't know what government did this?
You don't know who wrote it?
You don't know how it became accepted?
You don't know any scripture?
You don't know any history?
you have self proclaiming, self exhalting views of "yourself".
You use words like "debate", but then you don't debate. You want to be so individual, but when getitrite talks about how he left the church you get real budy budy, like you need a friend.
@ Marine forever You seem to have issues with the Marines that you take out on every one else. Did the marines make ya act like you were a part of a team that you didn't want to belong to???? Or are you just another alter ego that keeps saying what your puppet master commands for you to say
what exactly is your problem ????????
the link goes to this, something marine says-
"No more biblical arguements?
What would God say about that?"
that's the answer to your theory marine. Am I missing something, or is this an incredibly deep statement that I need to meditate on>?
Read the thread, not just 1 post ignorant one. Just like your believer mind to pick and choose.
I forgot, you obviously need directions for everything if you need them for belief.
Brilliant, you made up a term that wasn't from the bible. I'm impressed.
We should ALL listen to all of the truth that we are spending our time listening to. Aint it great? NOT
I think this thread has died out. I really am trying to understand the different views here but its just degenerated into petty stuff again, but I will go to all your hubs respectfully and read what you have to say and comment there. have a good evening folks I'll run into you tomorrow.... PS, if free will isn't about picking and choosing and deciding what to accept and not what is it about then?
Not being threatened with punishment for what you pick. This is a fear tactic.
My friend every action has a consequence whether you want it or not this transcends any religion or faith and is the essence of free will. That line of thinking is like saying the law is cruel because if you make a choice that is harmful or unacceptable to the majority there will be consequences. This is not a utopia the world you are talking about is not about religion or belief my friend. I think you're just going around in circles now about life not being fair, or working out how you want and are looking for a scapegoat.
You are off sir.
If a divine being recognized consequences to our actions and intervened, we wouldn't need human intervention like jails.
If a divine being intervened to heal sick, we wouldn't need medicines.
If you say there is divine intervention in the bible, why not divine intervention to heal sick without human intervention? Why human intervention to write the bible if you are a divine being?
Only questions that can be answered by faith or interpretation.
All tools to keep you busy from understanding the bibles true purpose.
It is best to let the Marine be and not reply anymore as he has made himself heard loud and clear.
He really needs nor wants anything from anyone.
Reported for typing the same thing repeatedly. I know your biblical mind is limited, but you could at least type a different response.
dito for typing "Are you a prophet?" over 30 times in the thread.
If everyone would stop engaging the Marine, he would be alone, they work well alone.
You wouldn't know anything about thinking or working alone would you? You would be completely lost.
ohh I admire your strength. Going out on your own in this big terrible forum agianst you. Your lady must feel so secure?
Is this what it comes to? A personal question to my family?
I understand how to seperate my emotions from my belief. You do not. Your mind is the dependent one that believes from fear.
I fear hell?
I fear the devil?
so you think because I believe there is a hell and that satan is real I fear them? And thats why I believe in God?? LOL that makes no sense what so ever
Alright, I will hear you out on a question. What makes you believe the bible as divine?
Alright I will give it a shot to answer as best as I can.
For one thing the Bible was produced from a nation which served many gods, yet the Bible speaks of only one God. The God of Abraham. This to some great extent proves its inspiration as being divine I believe as it would have been destroyed.
For two, it was not written in the style of human writings which would minimize the mistakes of it's heroes. The Bible is very clear about the mistakes of some of the great heroes. Abraham, Moses and David all were fallible as humans and their stories are told without consideration to making them look rather, fallible or having made mistakes.
The Bible is one complete piece of literature, despite the fact it is actually several books written by over 40 different people over a period of sixteen centuries.
And it's prophecies most of which have come true and are coming true, its historical records are accurate and it meshes well with modern science and our universe, some of the facts which were not otherwise known to man until many years after the Bible was completed.
So for these reasons and more I believe the Bible was inspired by God and is in fact, The Word of God.
It spooked me to see those two typed. shivers
No need to continue with this Marine.....there is no getting across to them.....they think they are the best.....until they come to USN Seal Training.....then they are brought low.
Just ignore him.
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