With the ongoing wars in the middle east how is it that God is dragged into the frackas with greatly differing views as to how he supports the different camps.
The conviction of the extreme muslims to wage terrorism and the wests stance on evil brings a lot of interpretation into the mixes.
How do we know if God is involved?
God isn't making the wars as he doesn't believe in them. The devil is ruling the earth right now trying to get as many followers as he can before God puts the devil back into Hell and chained for eternity. Read the Bible. God made a deal with the devil that the devil could rule for 1,000 years then be chained and sent back to hell to never come out again.
God is not a mean God, He is a loving God. It's the devils works that is going on right now. Even the Koran is being misinterpreted by the terrorists - the devils advocates.
Great answer. Blame it on the devil.
Too bad you really haven't read the Bible or believe in God. I will send a prayer your way.
I have read the bible. I understand it's purpose. It's outside the book, not inside. Nice arrogant assumptions, much like your faith and belief.
Your assumption is what I am talking about. Do you think if because I had read the bible I would would have the answer you have?
By all means pray for me but if I remember correctly it should be the Lords Prayer and not one of your own making.
Excellent. Very, very well done. More conflict from this. Good job.
We all know what wrong assumptions spell.
You could get some playtime on this one. But I would hope you would treat it with some insight.
I am sorry marine I meant to post that under her reply. These computer machines get so confusing sometimes. Good answer though I think she will have one for me.
I understand where you are coming from but you always see people calling on God through prayers and conversations to help them in their efforts be it fighting or promoting any given war of the times.
Both mainstream Muslims and Christians speak of Gods desire for us to be peaceful among ourselves but we seem to botch it up and get into another war. With both sides claiming validation in their beliefs why is it so contrary to their actions?
God laid it out in His Word where there are those in authority who have these kinds of choices to make. War is matter of man against man in this world of sin. One side out to conquer another. Whether the intent is for good or bad either way the troops obey as they are led.
God gave instructions in His Word just as He permits for law enforcement not to be bound by the commandment to not kill, if they do in fact have to kill in their respective duty.
God did step in and show His might and power during the 6 day war. Read about it and all the miracles performed during that conflict. Israel out manned, and out done had all but given up. And yet in just 6 days had defeated their enemies and in the most miraculous of ways, supernatural even!
As far as the wars being fought today, in Iraq and Afghanistan these wars are being claimed to be fought against by the Muslim communities as religious wars on their part. The U.S. has a different view. Regardless of what the U.S. intended or intends by victory or not over there is irrelevant to how the soldiers feel about it.
The soldiers want to free those people from tyranny. They feel they are doing a great service to their country by fighting against those opposed to freedom. And I believe yes, God honors those intentions, that bravery as well.
We have been through this before I will give you a little reading to refresh your mind on the subject. You are trying to inject a political argument where it was not called for. We could argue that for a couple more days if you so think it is the answer.
Here is the article.
I noticed the tears in the eyes of our people. There was a bitter feeling in every heart. Some of the old men were willing to die fighting for our land. but they were without arms.
- Fouad Yasin, Palestinian radio announcer
On November 29, 1947, the night partition was announced in Palestine, Zionist settlers danced through the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. When some dancers burst onto David Ben-Gurion's study, he hurried them away and returned to poring over military maps. The maps showed that over one-half of all Jewish settlers lived in three major cities, while the Palestinian Arabs lived in every city and in Arab villages throughout Palestine. Ben-Gurion studied each Arab village, focusing on the details of its strategic importance, its inhabitants, and its surrounding terrain.
Ben-Gurion had already ordered a secret mobilization of all soldiers in the Zionist army, the Haganah, and in the Palmach, the assault troops of the Haganah. Earlier in November, four special agents had departed for Europe with three million dollars of credits raised in the United States. Their mission was to buy rifles, machine guns, airplanes and artillery. In the outlying kibbutzim, secret arms factories, built from smuggled materials supplied by American Zionists, turned out small arms. Zionists were negotiating with Czechoslovakia for a large arms purchase.1 Ben-Gurion was preparing a military offensive designed to seize much more of Palestine for the Zionist state than the United Nations had assigned to it. He called this offensive "Plan Dalet." It would begin as soon as enough British troops withdrew from Palestine.2
For Palestinian Arabs, the threat of war hung heavy in the air the night of partition. They listened to the wild celebration in the streets. They talked of how to defend their nation in the upcoming fight. No arms were arriving from Europe for the Palestinians. The weapons they possessed dated from the 1936 rebellion. In all of Jaffa, there were only eight machine guns. The British Emergency Laws, enacted during the 1936 Palestinian rebellion, still condemned to death any Palestinian found with a gun. Two small Palestinian guerrilla groups had continued to train in the hills throughout the Second World War. The only central leadership, the Arab Higher Committee, had been banished ten years ago. Recently re-formed, it no longer had the power to rally Palestinians behind it. The Palestinians faced a Zionist military that was perhaps the best led and best organized of all European settler armies.
The hopes of many Palestinians turned to the other Arab countries. The Arab League, formed at the end of the war to coordinate the activities of Arab countries, was quick to issue scores of statements expressing solidarity with the Palestinians. But it failed to train Palestinians or to provide them with arms. Arab leaders depended on Britain and the United States to maintain their power. Several, like Prime Minister Nuri es-Said of Iraq, were more employees of Western oil companies than independent leaders. They did not want to challenge imperialism by giving full support to the Palestinians.
There were those among the Arab peoples, however, who had an understanding of Western imperialism born from decades of resistance. Through demonstrations and in organizations, they pressured their governments to do more than pay lip service to the Palestinian cause. Some Arab organizers suggested a powerful weapon: an oil boycott against the United States and Britain. In 1947, Syria had refused to sign an agreement with the United States to complete an oil pipeline. Workers in Lebanon and Transjordan stopped work on the line in enthusiastic support. But King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia sabotaged the work stoppage to protect the royalties that flowed directly into his palace from the profits of United States oil corporations. Palestinians understood from betrayals like this that they could expect only token help from the Arab governments.
In December 1947, the British announced that they would withdraw from Palestine by May 15, 1948. Palestinians in Jerusalem and Jaffa called a general strike against the partition. Fighting broke out in Jerusalem's streets almost immediately. The Zionists were prepared to seize every opportunity to escalate the fighting. A lightning war was their only hope to defeat the Palestinians, who outnumbered the Zionists and lived in all parts of the partitioned country. A lengthy battle could only favor the Palestinians. Violent incidents mushroomed into all-out war.
Zionist soldiers invade a town.
Palestinians fought in small guerrilla bands, in village militias, or in the ranks of the Arab Liberation Army, a poorly armed force of a thousand Palestinians and three thousand volunteers from other Arab countries. The people of Palestine supported the fighters as best they could. Women organized groups called "daisy chains" to smuggle arms into the hills, to dig trenches and to organize medical supplies. Casualties were high. By February the Palestinians were outmatched with twenty-five thousand Arabs fighting fifty thousand Zionist troops.3
Throughout the winter of 1948 Haganah and Irgun soldiers carried out night raids on Arab villages. The Haganah defined the purpose of these raids as "not to punish but to warn." Soldiers attacked quiet villages that had not been involved in the fighting to demonstrate "the Haganah's long arm."4 Haganah troops entered a village and silently placed dynamite around the stone houses, drenching the wooden doors and window frames with gasoline. Then, stepping back, they opened fire with their guns. The sleeping inhabitants died in the explosion and fire that destroyed their homes.5
Such "warnings" caused some villagers to flee their homes, but often only to another part of Palestine, no far enough away for the Zionists. The Zionist goal was to "clear the land" of its Arab inhabitants, but Palestinian leaders urged the people to stay and fight. In March Ben-Gurion put Plan Dalet - an all-out attack throughout the whole of Palestine - into effect.6 At the heart of his strategy was the systematic expulsion of the Palestinian Arab population. As long as most Palestinians stayed in Palestine, the Zionists could not win a decisive victory.
The attack began with the use of psychological terror. On March 28, the Zionist Free Radio broadcast this warning in Arabic:
Do you know it is a sacred duty to inoculate yourselves against cholera, typhus and similar diseases, as it is expected that such diseases will break out heavily in April and May among Arabs in the cities?7
Such broadcasts were not directed at Palestinian soldiers. Their purpose was to create fear in villagers, farmers and families in the cities and encourage them to flee. At Deir Yassin, a small Arab village near Jerusalem, psychological terror turned into a full-fledged massacre.
Deir Yassin was a quiet village. Its inhabitants had cooperated with the Jewish Agency and kept Arab troops out of their town.8 On April 9, Irgun soldiers entered the village and told the residents they had fifteen minutes to abandon their homes. Then the bands of soldiers attacked. In a few hours, the Irgun had murdered two hundred fifty-four people - men, women and children - in cold blood.9 Over the protests of the Jewish Agency, Jacques de Reynier of the International Red Cross visited Deir Yassin a few days later. He met the soldiers of the Irgun in the process of "cleaning up." This is what he reported:
I found some bodies cold. Here the "cleaning up" had been done with machine guns, then hand-grenades. It had been finished off with knives, anyone could see that... As the [Irgun] gang had not dared to attack me directly, I could continue. I gave orders for the bodies in this house to be loaded on the truck, and went into the next house, and so on. Everywhere, it was the same horrible sight. I found only two more people alive...10
The Irgun took the few survivors to Jerusalem and paraded them through the streets as crowds spit upon them. Although the Jewish Agency piously condemned the massacre at Deir Yassin, the Irgun was admitted to the Joint Command of the military with the Haganah the same day.11 The actions of the Irgun served the Zionist plan well. The destruction of Deir Yassin, which was skillfully publicized by the Zionists, sparked an exodus of Palestinian families who feared a similar fate. During the joint Irgun-Haganah attack on the Palestinian quarter of Haifa, the news of the massacre which had occurred twelve days before convinced many to flee.
On April 21, 1948, the British commander of Haifa advised the Zionists that he was withdrawing his troops. He did not tell Palestinian leaders. At sundown the Zionists began their attack on Haifa Arabs with Davidka mortars, which hurled sixty pounds of explosives about three hundred yards into the crowded Arab quarter. Barrel bombs, which were casks filled with gasoline and dynamite, rolled down the narrow alleys and crashed, creating an inferno of flames and explosions. Haganah loudspeakers broadcast "horror recordings" that filled the air with the shrieks and anguished moans of Arab women, interrupted by a booming sorrowful voice that called out in Arabic, "Flee for your lives! The Jews are using poison gas and atomic weapons!" As Palestinians fled their city, the Irgun commander reported that they cried, "Deir Yassin! Deir Yassin!"12
Palestinians flee Jaffa.
Within a week the same psychological blitz," as the Zionists called it, emptied the port city of Jaffa, a city designated as part of the Arab state. Only three thousand of he eighty thousand Arabs of Jaffa remained. Jon Kimche, a Zionist historian, reported that the soldiers "commenced to loot in wholesale fashion... Everything that was movable was carried from Jaffa [and] what could not be taken away was smashed."13 From the fertile fields of Galilee to the fortress city of Acre, the Zionist campaign drove the Palestinians from their homes, their villages, their lands. The several hundred thousand who remained lived under Zionist occupation.
During that fateful April of 1948, eight out of the thirteen major Zionist military attacks on Palestinians occurred in the territory granted to the Arab state by the United Nations.14 By May 15, as the British ended their long rule over Palestine, three hundred thousand Palestinians were exiles, living hand-to-mouth in the Jordan valley, Lebanon and Syria. The Jewish Agency cynically announced that the exodus of Arabs from Palestine was due to "flight psychosis."15
Ben-Gurion proclaims the State of Israel.
"Proclaim the State, No Matter What"
On Passover, April 24, Ben-Gurion had announced at a victory feast in Jerusalem: "We stand on the eve of a Jewish State." He had already set the date in his mind. As the British ended their rule on May 15, 1948, the Zionists would begin theirs. Ben-Gurion planned to cut off the lingering debate in the UN about the partition plan by confronting the world with the actual existence of the new state. Chaim Weizmann, the elder statesman of Zionism, telegraphed his advice: "Proclaim the state, no matter what else ensues."16
Zionist leaders approached President Truman and worked out the details of U.S. recognition. At 6:00 p.m. on May 15, David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the existence of Israel. Eleven minutes later, President Truman cabled American recognition of the Jewish state.
A messenger rushed into the United Nations to inform the members of the turn of events; even the U.S. ambassador had not been informed. Arab delegates charged that the United Nations had again served as a backdrop for the maneuvers of the United States. The Soviet Union, still hoping that the creation of the new state might mean an end to imperialist control of Palestine, added its recognition a few days later.
People in the Arab countries knew better. The news of Deir Yassin and other violent incidents had created an intense concern and anger over the fate of the Palestinians. As Committees for Palestine called meetings and demonstrations throughout the Arab countries, Arab leaders knew they had to respond. The Arab League hastily called for its member countries to send regular army troops into Palestine. They were ordered to secure only the sections of Palestine given to the Arabs under the partition plan. But these regular armies were ill-equipped and lacked any central command to coordinate their efforts. King Abdullah of Transjordan, the official commander-in-chief, was busy negotiating with British and Zionist leaders for a slice of Palestine.17 Abdullah wanted to attach to his own kingdom any Palestinian territory not occupied by the Israelis. He promised that his troops, the Arab Legion, the only real fighting force among the Arab armies, would avoid fighting with Jewish settlements.18 Under Abdullah's self-serving leadership the armies of the Arab League had little effect. A few individual units - most notably those of young Egyptians - fought fiercely, but often with no support from their generals. Yet Western historians record this as the moment when the young state of Israel fought off the "overwhelming hordes" of five Arab countries!
In reality, the Israeli offensive against the Palestinians intensified. British Major Edgar O'Ballance described the new phase:
[T]he Arab inhabitants were ejected and forced to flee into Arab territory, as at Ramleh, Lydda and other places. Wherever the Israeli troops advanced into Arab country, the Arab population was bulldozed out in front of them.19
On July 11, 1948, Moshe Dayan led a jeep commando column into the town of Lydda. Rifles, Sten guns and submachine guns blasted at everything that moved. Within minutes, the streets were silent, strewn with corpses of men, women and children.20 The next day, the Israelis seized the adjoining town of Ramleh. Loudspeakers announced that all Arabs had forty-eight hours to leave. Israeli soldiers stripped each person of all belongings - even food - at the bridges leaving the town. As Israeli troops sacked the town, a hundred thousand Palestinians began a painful march into exile.21 For three days, without food and water, the refugees walked in the sweltering sun towards the Transjordan hills. Many old people and children died of thirst.
"An Insuperable Problem"
When the fighting persisted and it became clear that the partition plan had broken down, the United Nations sent a mediator, Count Folke Bernadotte, to try to arrange a cease-fire and to secure the rights of the Palestinians. Numerous cease-fires which he arranged broke down as the Israelis continued their drives into Arab territory.22 Bernadotte urged Israel to allow the Palestinians to return to their homes. Israeli Foreign Minster Moshe Shertok replied: "On the economic side, the reintegration of the returning Arabs into normal life... would present an insuperable problem."23
In reality, the "problem" was that the new state depended on the homes, land and shops left behind by the exiled Palestinians. New Jewish settlers were already arriving, moving into Arab houses and reopening Arab businesses. The wealth of the exiled Palestinians - 80 percent of the land, 50 percent of the citrus groves, 90 percent of the olive groves, and ten thousand shops - was needed to build the new state of Israel.24
Bernadotte continued to press for Palestinians' right to return. His reports documented the forced flight of the Palestinians and their desire to return once peace was established. Finally on September 17, members of the Stern Gang assassinated Bernadotte. Waves of shock rippled through the United Nations and Western capitals at the news of his murder. New pressure mounted on Israel to accept a cease-fire. On January 7, 1949, a prolonged cease-fire went into effect. The new state of Israel encompassed 80 percent of Palestine! The key to victory had been the forcible eviction of the Palestinian Arab population. Chaim Weizmann observed that exodus of the Palestinians was a "miraculous simplification of our tasks."25
The Western world celebrated the birth of the new state. In America, Senators, members of Congress and the President applauded the "miracle of Israel." A rush of books and articles, like the best-seller Exodus, told the story of Israel as the victory of a valiant and intelligent people, the Israelis, over hordes of dark-skinned, dishonest and backward Arabs. The story had the drama of the popular Hollywood Westerns that dominated the American screen. It also had the same point: the attack on native people and the conquest of their land, whether Palestinian or Indian, was not only legitimate, but courageous and inspiring. It was a useful lesson to teach as American leaders launched the Cold War. It helped mobilize the American people behind the U.S. drive to seize the resources of other countries. An atmosphere of fear and hatred of "backward and uncivilized" people, from the Koreans to the Arabs, gripped the country. Israel represented a victory that both recaptured America's pioneer days and gave Israel's American supporters an emotional stake in U.S. domination of the Middle East.
The truth about the Palestinian Arabs lay buried in this avalanche of propaganda. In 1959 an American Jew, Nathan Chofshi, who had settled Palestine in 1908, wrote to the American Jewish Newsletter, protesting an article by Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan. Kaplan had argued that Arab leaders told the Palestinians to leave. Chofshi wrote:
If Rabbi Kaplan really wanted to know what happened, we old Jewish settlers in Palestine who witnessed the flight could tell him how and in what manner we, Jews, forced the Arabs to leave cities and villages which they did not want to leave of their own free will. Some of them were driven out by force of arms; others were made to leave by deceit, lying and false promises.26
Over seven hundred fifty thousand Palestinians had been driven out of Palestine to create the state of Israel.27 King Abdullah annexed the Palestinian West Bank to Transjordan, renaming his enlarged kingdom simply Jordan. King Farouk of Egypt took over the administration of the Gaza Strip. Palestine disappeared from Western maps.
The people of Palestine did not forget. The memories of the terror of the spring of 1948 mingled with the memory of other springs in Palestine, when the land was theirs and grew under their care. Ghassan Kanafani, an exiled Palestinian writer, described the flight of his family from Jaffa in a story called The Land of Sad Oranges. He recalled
... the long queue of lorries, leaving the land of oranges far behind and spreading out over the winding roads of Lebanon. Then I began to weep, howling with tears. As for [my] mother, she eyed the oranges silently and all the orange trees [my] father had left behind to the Jews were reflected in his eyes; all the wholesome orange trees he had acquired one by one were visible in his face and glistened through the tears he could not check, even in front of the officer. When we arrived in Sidon that afternoon, we had become homeless.28
You are AMAZING... You have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about!!
If you actually expanded your mind with a bit of FACTUAL history; then you would understand how much rubbish you utter!
I suppose it never occurred to you that each Army have their own Fully Qualified servants of God, providing religious support to the combatants.
Do you know how to Cook? Are you able to discuss how to make a Fruitcake without a pinch of BS?
Amazing wisdom comes out of your camp..... How Sad
if the devil was given 1000 years why is he still here? did he get a extension for being bad, or can someone not count it is now 2009 a few years longer than the 1000 granted.
it is not god or the devel who rules us but our self we have only ourself to blame for how bad the world is no god wants us to kill each other it is the people who tell us god wants this it is just what people make up telling other people it is gods will and the stupid people belive it.
people say this is in the bible/koran or that is in the bible/koran,
all bibles of every faith were wrote by men not by gods it is time for them to be thrown away and only do what you belive in not what other people tell you to most people donot want to kill others it is only a very few that go out of there way to quote what is writen down by other men.
I do agree that the Bible is a book written by men and is fallible because of its' method of creation but there is a theme that goes through all holy books with interpretation being the cause of misunderstanding. Why is it that we follow these interpretations as the excuse for war?
this is just too funny! so God made a deal with the devil? why the hell (sorry)would he have to do that?
God is not a mean God? sure about that? After all, he made a deal with the devil so the devil could take as many of us along for the roast as he possibly could .. for eternity no less, Ok, yes, he did send salvation... but for what? for his own vanity he lets his kid die and burn in hell? very loving indeed.
Only more proof that the bible is religion/government creation and has nothing to do with divine creation.
I hope you know you're going to hell for being intelligent enough to see that. That's blasphemy!
Is your judgement of him going to stop him or convince him otherwise? Why is it that when confronted with an opposing view you find it neccessary to react this way?
Please explain your take and not cut off what it is you base this damning on.
Did you not notice my smiley face at the end of the statement. This means I agree with him...was just being sarcastic. I'm probably the opposite of what you think I am!
Please accept my profound appology. I am probably guilty of moderating this conversation more than catching the subleties offered. Not my chob man.
No problem. I just take it for granted that everyone has seen the statements I've written in the past on similar forums.
Take it for granted or assume?
Just messing with you. lol
Oh my God you are not one of those! I need to go pray or take a bath or something. My poor attempt at humor.
Great take. I had posted an earlier comment on page 2 it read:
It has nothing to do with God. As anyone can see, man is a selfish fool. Humans, in all their selfishness, create gods in their own image(human & evil) Then this "god" they create, hates everything they hate.
according to 99,99984% of the religions I am going to hell anyway... if the one's dogma doesn't get you the other's will. Unless you just happen to be the 0,00016% that got the right religion. Its a catch 22 so we're all going down, bring lots of beer!
I find it interesting how people justify sin by putting the blame on God for it! lol
Saying what you have said here is saying it His fault for giving us the choice in the first place which is really quite irresponsible.
You do not have to burn in hell or suffer any consequence. The road to salvation is easy and in it there is great reward. That is the important aspect unbelievers leave out to stay justified in their sin, to cling onto it. Not wanting to let it go. Not even realizing that salvation is freedom from those bondages that hold you to it in the first place.
God did not make any "deal" with the devil. The devil is defeated and has been since the beginning. Oh it seems as though he has all sorts of power as you look at all the evil and negative around you. But most of this is not performed by the devil, only encouraged by him to be carried out by man.
It is mans humbleness in knowing that he is not perfect, he is sinful in nature and needs Gods grace in which salvation comes. It is a stripping away from mans pride and self indulgence. Coming to God in love that brings freedom from this world of sin and despair. crying out to His son, Jesus. Having respect and realizing what He did for us!
This is not something to be mocked but exalted! God did what He had to do as a result of actions by man in the beginning!
He had to do this (send His Son) in order to reconcile once again with man, to bring man into a place to receive that reward of life eternal once again. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for sin. He paid the price so we don't have to. He shed that blood for a reason though none of us deserve that kind of love or grace, God does give it freely to all who accept it. And Jesus being God in the flesh was both a sacrifice as the Son of Man and the Son of God and being God, was also the sacrifice in that. A concept some do not realize or accept.
God loves all, He wants for all to live in eternity with Him. He is love. He embodies all that love is. In that perfect love there is no room for sin or evil.
It is His blood that cleanses. He was the ONLY sacrifice as He is the ONLY one needed.
I guess the only answer to that is enough said, end of conversation. It is a shame that these conversations always end up this way with you and I can't understand who you are without all the verses and rhetoric. The only thing is when you identify yourself this way you take on all the onslaughts of distortion and misconceptions associated with that stance and very few of the good and pure things through your lack of expressing it your self.
THAT'S a truely Wonderful statement AW...
You probably didn't know that 'His' blood was identified By Himler and the Airean followers of Edda (early SS Nazis) as ONLY flowing through their veins!
So how does that equal your own statements?
Did you learn everything that you post on the Mayflower?
So because early nazis believed the way they did you choose to ignore the TRUTH?
Listen to the sheeple with the TRUTH.
Just because it sounds like a meaningless platitude repeated ad infinitum - that does not mean it is not the TRUTH.
Well done preacher woman. Another one going against the LAW. I like that.
Were you in the Navy? they call that a hole snipe.
Sorry the point passed you by... Though why your answer surprises me... I don't know why! I don't ignore the Truth on anything... In my profession I could not minister my 'Flock' if I did that AW!!
Contradictions and unnatural, implausible acts are not the Truth, in my opinion.
umm what choice was that? don't eat the fruit?
Ex 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
The choice of jumping between the Old Testament and the New Testament is very deceptive. Do you understand the different message of the two and how they are related?
Defining God is always going to be hard but what is your personal experience with God supporting war?
Why exactly did God have to make a deal with the devil in the first place? Isnt God all powerful to just
So we are in the middle of the 1,000 years of the devil running amok... I guess I expected more fire and sulphur. Its really not all that bad.
God doesnt support war? I guess some havent heard of the Old Testament.
Are you denying that similar evil has existed for over 1000 years?
So when did this 1000-year period start? I hear this kind of claim all the time. So when did it start? How do you know it started? What accounted for the evil in the world before that?
Every soldier who signs up , isnt signing because God told him too
It's doesn't take the bibles belief to understand sacrifice.
Much has been blamed on God for wars, famines , you name it , its Gods fault?
I agree that following Gods commandments definately improves mankinds moral/ethics behaviour, just as evil feeds evil behavoir.
But to say things like 'the devil made me do it' or 'God is on this nations side (insert nation of choice) makes no sense at all.
I agree I have two sons that signed up with the Navy for training and career help. The serving the country thing was a second reason and God did not even play a part in it for them.
But you hear both sides invoking God in their support and protection. Is this someting God would want us to do?
Well I havent read the Bible cover to cover , but I do not see how God can be blamed for the decisions any of us make??
I mean accountable for ones own actions was how I was raised anyway.
It has nothing to do with God. As anyone can see, man is a selfish fool. Humans, in all their selfishness, create gods in their own image(human & evil) Then this "god" they create, hates everything they hate.
rhamson, you are everywhere this morning, its becoming a habit, You might want to consider rehab.
Well I must admit that politics and religion are my two favorite topics. Maybe you are right I will look for a topic in crochetting or needle point. Know of any?
The best place for those two topics is a bar! How about basket weaving, will that do?
Then this thing or phenomena is to our undoing? How is it that intelligent beings with a sense of right and wrong can overide that understanding and buy the war ticket? There has to be a way to cut through all this and relate on a human level of family, friends and neighbors. What can we say or do to establish a basis to talk to each other without the threatening tone and consequences?
Perhaps we are missing the obvious here. God is very pro war.
its written everywhere in the bible.
God delivers your enemies into your hand,
God lets your enemies rape your wives if you piss him off (see David)
non believers are fair game,
God drowns everyone who don't worship him or burns them
and then there are God's servants.. the only good man, Lot, offers his virgin daughters for raping to spare the poor angels... Noah was a wino who's own son castrated him while he was passed out drunk to stop him from having more kids...
To end it all, there will be Jesus on his horse (cars will become extinct) with a sword (guess the ammo ran out) smiting all the evil buggers who refused to be convinced my nonsensical blind faith.
Who was it again that said god is so loving???
God is SOOO violent. Why would he even need to create a devil. The devil pales in comparison.
A little over the top? Maybe, but I get your passion for the subject.
There is a distinction between the Old Testament and the New Testament because of the change from the Mosaic law to the covenant made by God through Christ. That is my take on it anyway. Where the differnce comes in the old law which provided an eye for an eye philosophy for a turn the other cheek philosophy. Based on that, where do we find it plausible that God wishes to settle our conflicts with war?
Notice I used the term philosophy as we aren't practicing these principles currently.
passion is mild, want some examples from the new testament?
How about this little ditty for starters:"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.".. lets play a round of who said that...
We could argue about the meaning of the Bible all day and most bible scholars view that scripture as a division within families as to Christs ministry. You can take it literally but you should read how it Mat. 10-34 is tied into the old testament with Mic.7.6 and back to Lk 12.51 in the New Testament.
I would hope that this could be a discussion of the value that we have finding peaceful solutions to our war tendensies and not holy wars.
That is basically the point rhamson, people argue about the meaning of a piece of scripture, to the point of war, even between people of the same faith (Catholics & protestants, Suni & Shite etc. ect ect.) ... there is no sense in that at all.
For every quote you give me how Jesus preaches peace there is another that preaches war...
War is man's territorial instinct coming through, and yet we try to justify it all with just 'knowing' its what god would want. I have been in a war situation its no fun and there is ZERO glory in it, not for man, maybe for god though, we know how he loves blood and guts.
I really think we are on the same page about this but I only offered those passages to basically hammer down the point. I too was a bible scholar and very much in the argument if you will but I also found that armed with a good concordance and a little knowledge you can jump back and forth between literal and spiritual interpretation at the drop of a hat. Please forgive me if I took you out of context for a minute.
The subject though is one of understanding rather than preaching and I know these discussions go very wrong very quickly with bible discussions. But I want to understand where teachings of peace and forgiveness as seen in the Quran and the Bible get subverted into feelings of war and killing in His name.
Mate............. Did you forget to put Zinc on your nose?
You're a wee bit toasted there
yikes, right you are pup... better get some nivea on that pronto!
Yep I know..... I came in here looking for a real Post! Couldn't believe the steam I gave off when I mistook your leg for one!
More blood has been shed in the name of God than for any other reason. How can man know what God wants, thinks, or feels? Man needs to be accountable for their own actions and quit blaming God.
Well here's alot of the problem.... History dating back to the Eygptians 2000BC states that the recorded writings of priests is: Mythology!
Egyptian writings go back as far as 3000BC. No more(Post flood)
they were incredibly protective of their beliefs and image, even to the point of trying to erase the existance of some of their pharohs. there were a few female rulers in egypt, Hapshetsut I believe was almost erased as far as statues, literature and any knowledge by male pharohs. Even though she was a great ruler for more than 22 years.
Religion and God are not synonomous. In fact, if we are to accept that God is all-knowing and unconditionally loving, then religion and God can be frequently contrasted. This might be why I find it hard to relate to believers and atheists alike.
The bible does not say anything about there being 1000 years of peace, or 1000 years for Satan to rule. It does say that there will be 1000 years that those that were killed for their testimony of God will reign in heaven with Christ. It was at that time that Satan was bound. That 1000 years began about the time that Europe started coming out of the dark ages.(approx 900AD) He has been loosed for a little season to gather together the kings to Armageddon. If you are a muslim you will call this event Ge had
you wont find God in any book. God can not be bound in leather . God is not as simple as words. and God never wears army boots. Ever.
by Julie McFarland3 years ago
I was a missionary in the christian faith for years. I went to a bible college. I've read the bible - at least a dozen times, cover to cover. I've studied the dogmas, the doctrines and the theology -...
by PhoenixV6 years ago
Edmund Burke wrote: ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Isn't good men doing nothing really the evil ? What expectations should we have of those that are already...
by Fenixfan6 years ago
This is another religious topic, but unlike most that are posted. The basis of this thread is to gather the thoughts of atheists, evolutions or scientologists and christians can even chime in. Most evolutionists believe...
by Baileybear6 years ago
<snipped graphic image>Search for 'birth defects' and you will find lots of disturbing images like this one - some look barely human
by Sooner284 years ago
After reading a critical thinking book recently, the author stumbled upon something that I think was much more fundamental than she realized, since it was only mentioned in passing and not taken up again ANYWHERE in the...
by Retrohawaii5 years ago
I believe in a God not necessarily in what the bible discusses
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