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Is God An Energy?

  1. Shealy Healy profile image61
    Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

    I have been pondering lately the idea that God is energy. Now, of course God is energy. But, somehow lately I have begun to see this fact in a new way. I think all matter is a creation of God. So, why wouldn't I see God as an energy? Well, lately it seems there is a secret bit of God that is inside of me-and you-just waiting for us to explore.


    So, what I have been pondering is-why would spirit be within us but not just freely flowing in a manner that we can easily access it. Why would God exist as a spiral of energy at the base of your root chakra just waiting to be released. I think my real question is-why not have this bundle of energy so talkative and loud that everyone feels it, knows it and works to achieve it? So many just walk around blindly not realizing their full potential. Why?

    1. wyanjen profile image87
      wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If you replace the word "god" with "myself" we would have a better conversation. It's not matter of divinity inside me and you- it's a matter of developing our own character and finding strength in ourselves and those around us.

      I'm not of the mind that people's greatest qualities are given to us by some magical being. I'm of the mind that people deserve their own credit when they realize their full potential.

      Maybe some people who are walking around blindly are waiting for the energy to find them instead of creating the energy for themselves. Because that is where the energy is coming from:  us. smile

      Peace
      Jen

      1. SparklingJewel profile image67
        SparklingJewelposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I can agree...and say that we are, each individual, both human and divine...intended to be both ego healthy and inspiring AND divinely perceived and inspired. I AM ONE, a coiled ENERGY of MATTER working on being uncoiled to CREATE big_smile

        1. Shealy Healy profile image61
          Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          For today I am satisfied to be a coiled energy working on being uncoiled. I think that is all I really have to do in life.

      2. starme77 profile image85
        starme77posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I Totally agree, Well said smile

      3. VOICE CIW profile image81
        VOICE CIWposted 7 years ago in reply to this
    2. 0
      zampanoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'd love helping you feel a bit of God inside...
      Anyway, the idea of God equivalent to Energy is appealing.
      I think we can say without fear of being mistaken that ALL is Energy.
      So, if God is ALL, God is Energy like us.
      There was a hubber who said : God is a sinus wave.
      This joins what you said.
      And is much more attractive than quoting scriptures.

    3. Messenger_of_god8 profile image61
      Messenger_of_god8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      god is concious thougts that came from nothing and and created something out of nothing god is the light conscious vision

    4. ediggity profile image60
      ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You shouldn't see GOD as an energy, because that is applying a finite definition to an infinite source.  GOD is what is, what was, and what is to come.  GOD is beyond energy, and any comprehensible human definition.  You're right, GOD created all matter, but it doesn't necessarily mean that matter is GOD.  It could mean that, but only GOD really knows.  As a finite human example, If I make a great cake, it doesn't mean that I am part of the cake as well.

      And nobody pull out the first Law of Thermodynamics card either, unless you can prove where the first energy came from.

      1. Evolution Guy profile image61
        Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Religionist nonsense.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You prove me wrong with science or mathematics then.

          1. Evolution Guy profile image61
            Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            LOLOLOL

            You make an absolute statement with no mathematics=, no science and no facts?

            And now you want it dis-proven? lol

            Or you MUST be right? lol lol

            Religionist garbage.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              With God, all all things are possible.  Even selective reasoning!

            2. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              No, I made a statement with a fact.  No one in science has proven where energy comes from.

              You made a personal attack. 

              Proving me wrong would actually prove where energy comes from. Something that you are more than welcome to do. Then you could say energy is definitely created nor destroyed.  However, I really wouldn't expect you to understand that without me explaining it.

              1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I made no such personal attack.

                "No one in science has proven where energy comes from.... therefore GOD did it" Lololololololo

                Prove it

                1. ediggity profile image60
                  ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Religionist nonsense is a personal attack on what I believe in.  It doesn't actually bother me.  It just shows what kind of a person you are.  You're actually quite scripted.

                  Here's Evolution Guy or Mark Knowles:

                  I don't agree with religious comment
                  Random taunt or mock of "Jeebus?"
                  Try to push the proof back onto the person with faith
                  Sometimes another personal attack or random taunt about "Jeebus?"

                  Lastly, I don't have to prove anything it's already in the BIBLE.  I have faith.  Proof is what science does remember. Science is that whole thing you solely believe in.  Not me.

                  1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                    Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    LOLOL

                    There you go. wink

                    I think you need to PROVE a personal attack on your religionist nonsense. The BIBLE? LOLOL

                    Prove it

              2. wyanjen profile image87
                wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                But you DO seem to be expecting us to understand it without you explaining it.
                How do you know there is no proof of where energy comes from? Or, are you just using general statements...
                What is your stance on the Information Paradox?

                1. ediggity profile image60
                  ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Because scientists are still trying to figure out where it came from that's how everyone knows.  Are they just searching for no reason? Were you being serious or just joking?

                  1. shazwellyn profile image84
                    shazwellynposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Evolution guy is a wind up!  Look at his profile! x

                  2. wyanjen profile image87
                    wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm completely serious.
                    That is such a general, but absolute, statement that I wonder if you have studied the subject at all.

      2. 0
        Scott.Lifeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Energy is infinite, continually expanding, in everything and present everywhere all the time. It is without limit. Sounds like the one putting limits on things is you.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          From a scientific point you would be correct, but I say energy is limited by GOD, as is everything else.  You're right I am placing limits, where GOD is concerned there are limits or infinity. It's his choice.

          1. 0
            Scott.Lifeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I think you will find if you look close enough that it's all about your choice. This life unfolds under your direction and decisions. The whole God put limits on me is a cop-out and irresponsible. Jesus said you could achieve the impossible if you but believed then when we don't achieve, we blame God, the God that said you can do anything. That just doesn't make sense. The only limits to man are what he puts in place through doubt and fear. Every time we say something can't be done someone comes along to do it. I believe in a faith that sets me free, not binds me in chains and limitations in the name of a church that cares little for me or my soul.

      3. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        SO GOD IS ALL OF THE ABOVE, BUT HE CAN'T EVEN ANSWER A PRAYER!yikes

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          GOD can do anything.

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            So God could make himself into energy if he desired?

            1. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I think you may have accidentally answered without fully reading the post you responded to.

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                With God all things are possible!

                1. ediggity profile image60
                  ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No disagreement here! Amen!

                  1. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I know, as long as I am delusional, you and I will get along just fine.  This is nonsense.  You want to be reasonable and nonsensical at the same time!!!lol  lol  lol

        2. LeslieAdrienne profile image81
          LeslieAdrienneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          WOW!!! Sorry you are disappointed with God.sad I hope you don't give up on Him... big_smile

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Too late!!! I'm not disappointed with God.  God does not exist.  I'm happy knowing that everything, including suffering, is part of the human condition. cool

            The men who created god created a very weak god! sad

          2. Cagsil profile image84
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Would you be disappointed if you realize there was no God?

            I'm sure you would be. For the fact that you would then be forced to accept everything in your and you'd have no meaning, unless you provide one for yourself.

            Hmmm...Sounds like true life.

    5. tantrum profile image61
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Because it doesn't exist ?  hmm big_smile

      1. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Now it all makes sense, Thanks Tantrum.lol

    6. coletta7 profile image61
      coletta7posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      They are blind. It just may not be their time to know.God is mysterious,and he does things in his own time,we just have to be patient and wait on him while praying for others if we are indeed the awaken ones in Christ!

      1. Cagsil profile image84
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sorry, but I must disagree. The pure and simple fact that if 'religion' didn't exist...you still would and you wouldn't have a belief in 'god' and would be forced to live your life by your individual guidance system, which is built-in to your body.

        That guidance system is your consciousness and conscience. These two things tell you everything you need to know.

        Your consciousness tells you that you exist.

        Your conscience tells you the difference between right or wrong.

    7. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I believe that the first paragraph is correct and now that you have ask yourself this question, power has shifted..now you must ask your self why would you not? and yes explor it. 

          The answer to the second question (Paragraph)is found in the question with this question.  Who determines what your, my , or their full potential is???   Full potential is governed by the individual self, controlled by their own free will.

          We all reach our own full potential and self made expectations. No one ever reaches the expectations set by  everyone else. 

        The truest words ever spoken are "to thy own self be true"  (never lie to yourself)

    8. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Intesesting and truthful.I guess it our ego which prevents us from seeing god in all, actually the Light in all.
      Everone will walk the spiritual path and feel gods energy but some are busy burning out some other desrire of theirs. smile

    9. advisor4qb profile image79
      advisor4qbposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      God is the source of all energy.  Everything is made up of that energy, just in different densities.  That is why like attracts like, and thoughts become things.  The people who walk around blind to it are still experiencing it, they just are not aware of it.  Everything happens for a reason.

      Read the books by James Redfield, including the "Celestine Prophecy" for a better understanding.  And the book or the movie, "The Secret" gives a pretty good understanding of the Law of Attraction, which is expanded on by Esther Hicks in her many books.  But the thing that brings God into the helm of it all for me is the book, "The Game of Life and How to Play It" by Florence Scovel Shinn.  I have seen it online for free.  She also wrote three other books.  That particular book was written in 1925.

      Understanding the truth requires an open mind.  Some people are not ready for the answers to the questions they ask.  Someone told me to read that book fifteen years ago.  I just read it.  Go figure!

    10. hudsonj1994 profile image60
      hudsonj1994posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Most definitely

    11. Smireles profile image83
      Smirelesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I am interested in your quest to discover if God is energy. I checked the Thesaurus and guess what? Another word for energy is spirit. I know some do not want to hear the scripture but I thought you might be tolerant.
          John 4:24
          God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
          Colossians 1:15
          Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  (This is a reference to Jesus Christ)
           I Timothy 1:17
          Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

      I find it laughable that so many seek to put God in a box. The God I serve is quite big enough to have many secrets he has not yet let the human race in on.

      Thank you for this thoughtful question.

    12. Bibowen profile image89
      Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      An interesting question. I don't think God is ”energy" because, from a Christian perspective, God is a spirit, so He possesses no materiality. Furthermore, energy, like matter, would be a product of his creative capacity. When we say that He is "omnipotent" we are simply saying that all physical power is subject to His control. But He is not "power", "matter" or "energy."

      The best single description that I have heard is that God is an unembodied mind.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well if god is an unembodied mind he is as thick as a brick! Evidently he favors all the haters of the world who would have everyone rot in hell who does not crawl on their guts to the mighty one. Sounds more like a man idea! smile

        1. Bibowen profile image89
          Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well, not all of them. He missed a few great haters, like Lenin and Stalin.

      2. ediggity profile image60
        ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Very well thought out and structured reply on the topic of whether or not GOD is energy.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          LOL

          "He agrees with me" is not the same as "Very well thought out and structured."

          So - you both already have all the answers from the bible. Great.

          All you ever say is, "The Biblical God Is the Only God.. Therefore any attempt to define god that does not say what the Bible says is wrong."

          Wonder why you are even taking part in the discussion?

          "the best description I have heard that agrees with my religiosity is 'god is an unembodied mind'."  big_smile

          1. ediggity profile image60
            ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Evolution guy I think you may have a comprehension problem, because you seem to add your thoughts to individuals statements.  When someone makes a statement, they don't include your opinion with it.

            What I said is it was a very well thought out and structured post.  My statement would have been the same if he thought GOD was energy as well.

            Bibowen addressed the original topic, and gave some reasoning to behind his answer.  His reasoning focused on his belief, and he used it to support his statement.  Notice how I said on the TOPIC of whether or not GOD is energy in my original post.  Again, you have added nothing to that debate, and tried to criticize other people for what they have said.

            Just take a stance on whether or not GOD is energy, and support your statement.  I really wonder why you are taking part in the discussion you still haven't addressed.

            1. Evolution Guy profile image61
              Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry - what are you not getting here?

              I am taking the stance that GOD does not exist.

              I am also taking the stance that the universal energy that we can all tap into if we wish to do so is best described as energy rather than to use the assumptive term "god," which has so many negative connotations thanks to religionists such as yourself.

              What do you not understand about that? The term "god" as applied to do with energy is nothing to do with your religionist GOD. Your GOD does not exist. I suggest you try and keep it out of the discussion as we are trying to deal with something completely different and nothing to do with your use of the word GOD.

              Hope that helps explain why bilbowen's non structured, poorly thought out statement that attempted to bring your imaginary GOD into the discussion was just another worthless religionist statement attempting to push your religious agenda.

              Yes of course people use the term "god" to describe the energy that is all around us. Very, very poor choice of word. Especially when it then becomes GOD.

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Your position is very well stated.  If something does not exist it CAN'T be energy.  It can only be imaginary.

              2. ediggity profile image60
                ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, sorry.  I must have misread the post topic.  Is GOD an energy?  Wait, no I read it right.  The topic didn't read I don't like what people are posting, so I will attack their statements with nothing to support mine.  Then I will say the original topic doesn't include GOD. LOL, did you seriously read your post before you submitted it?  Well, at least now your opinion is clearly stated.  You don't believe in GOD, but you believe in the "Universal Energy" Do you mean Ki, Ka, Chi,or Xi?

                Now I have to ask.  You think that there isn't proof of GOD, so what proof do you have of the "universal energy"?

                1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                  Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  You are the one introduced GOD and the BIBLE into the discussion. You are the one with the absolute statements and "should nots"

                  And I am the one who changed the discussion ?  big_smile

                  Your GOD does not exist.

                  Therefore it is not energy. Because it does not exist.

                  And no - Ki is different form of energy to this "universal" energy.

                  No - no proof. None needed really.

                  I am not telling you that this energy knows what you should be doing. Nor did it write a book of rules for you to follow. wink

                  1. ediggity profile image60
                    ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Because I am a nice guy.  Here is some attempt at proof to support your belief.  http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0408025v1

                    However, if one day proven concrete, it will still only attempt to explain what GOD created. Again- no attempt at provide any proof from the science believer.  I think from now on when I don't understand something in science, I am just going to say I have faith in it.  May the force be with you.

                  2. spiderpam profile image57
                    spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey Mark glad to see you're see you defending the faith of atheism, no matter what guise you use. And the fact that you’re still here after that Ida refutation shows a lot of faith. Ever get around to answering those questions or looking into proof that Jesus is real? Of course not! Because that would mean admitting you are wrong and what evolutionists would do that? wink

                    So what kind of scientist are you? The one that named Ida "The Link" made a movie and a book and got a lot of money by promoting a lie? Or the one that reaffirmed what the creationist said all along?

          2. Bibowen profile image89
            Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            My claim that God is an "unembodied mind" was a modest one; I think God is much more than that, but my main point was that I did not believe God is, or possesses, energy as an attribute for the reasons I gave. Obviously, he would not have a body. Note I said "unembodied" and not "disembodied"--that would be Shirley MacLane; nor did I say "disemboweled"--that would be the arguments of atheists. And to have created the universe, He would have to be a mind.

    13. repstrydiefly profile image74
      repstrydieflyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I am not religious but I do believe the concept of God was referring to energy. There's good energy and there is evil energy. the word GOD in religion was the substitution symbolism for GOOD energy. The word DEVIL in religion was the substitution symbolism for EVIL energy. There is plenty of symbolism to research in religion, and you can definitely find most of the same stories in different religions. But that religion might have a better explanation to back it up but it is still just a story somebody wrote for a meaning.

      In this universe there are 2 major forces called microcasms and macrocasm. Microcasms are the potential energy that each individual has to find it's character and individuality. The best way to find this potential energy is to come in touch with your spirituality as much as possible so you can find out who you really are and what your purpose on this planet is. Macrocasm is the potential energy of LOVE that everybody on the planet has in connecting to each other and making the environment and the universe and safer place.

      The Law of Attraction states that whatever an individual thinks about will come to happen in their environment (those thoughts will be attracted to them). For instance, if a person is always thinking negative and promoting death and suffering, then they will always suffer until their death and people around them will suffer and die. But on the other hand, if somebody has set goals and love everybody for who they are and is always thinking positive, then they will live a positive and healthy lifestyle. Karma can explain this in a shorter way by "What comes around, goes around."

      I don't know why people choose to stay in ignorance to the illusion they are surrounded by. If everybody would come to their full potential, then there should never be talk about war, famine, natural disasters, end of the world, diseases, drugs, etc. This universe would be a paradise because every individuals energy would bind together to make this GOD OF LOVE that every religious person believes already exists.

    14. yeah yeah profile image59
      yeah yeahposted 7 years ago in reply to this
    15. 61
      SwanneyLeeposted 7 years ago in reply to this
    16. monaz profile image61
      monazposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't believe God is kundalini energy waiting at the base of the spine to rise.

      But yes I believe in the awakening of the kundalini energy.
      I have experienced it.

      I think the two concepts are very different.
      For me God is not somebody out side.My subconscious or higher self  is the all knowing God to me.

      1. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Kundulini energy is something to be cultivated.  It can rise, and just as quickly be diffused through lack of use and the ability to use it.  Kundulini awakenings have been described differently depending on the person's experiences.  From something light and fluffy, to something so intense it would burn your vagina.

        "In the true Hindu Tantric model the kundalini is an accumulation of forces in the root-chakra.  It's a female principle and is represnted as a coiled she-serpent when asleep.  When awakened through yogic practices, she hisses and ascends along the central channel (sushumna), piercing the chakras on her way, and reaching the crown chakra where she becomes one with the adept's transcendental consciousness - this union of Shakti and Shiva principles parallelling the mystical wedding of the hermetic tradition.  There are several variations on this model.

        The kundalini is the repository of all dormant potential of prakriti, 'Nature' in the widest possible meaning of the term.  Which is why, once awakened, she triggers many new abilities in the body of energy of the adept.  Traditionally, a full awakening of kundalini is said to bestow a number of supernatural powers, or siddhis (literally 'perfections')." (extract ALTMC, Dr Samuel Sagan)

        Is Kundalini God?  What is not God?  Is God Kundalini?  The term God encompasses being, and Being is all that IS.  We are not separate from that which is termed God, as we are of the same energy that God is.

    17. advisor4qb profile image79
      advisor4qbposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I believe that not only is He an energy, He is the source of ALL energy.  Everything is energy (Einstein's Theory of Relativity). 

      In the end we all go back to Him, and if we are good and attract good things, then we will be naturally drawn to His goodness.  That's my theory, anyways.

      And I don't feel the need to scientifically explain why I believe what I believe.  I know that we send out thoughts and prayers (energy), and we bring about what we think about.  I believe that God is the Mastermind behind all of it.

      1. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Because when mankind fell God did not want him to live forever in his fallen state (separated from God) So only those who seek God in spirit and truth can find him (those who seek to be like him)Otherwise man would discover the secrets to the Tree of Life (unity) and live forever in tormented states of mind, ill health and so on. God is merciful

      2. Danny R Hand profile image60
        Danny R Handposted 7 years ago in reply to this
      3. pylos26 profile image76
        pylos26posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Don't understand how an abstract can be energy...please inform.

    18. TimTurner profile image79
      TimTurnerposted 7 years ago

      Everything in the non-physical world is energy.  Energy never dies but your physical body does.

      I don't believe in a god but I believe in a powerful energy that runs the Universe.

      Scientist and physicists are opening up a whole new view of the Universe with energy.  Something as small as an electron can anticipate your thoughts.  Your thoughts are energy.  How weird is that?

      1. Paradise7 profile image87
        Paradise7posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Definitely.  "God" is that force, that drives the universe, from the tiniest part of an atom to the largest cosmic entity.  I think that's what we call "God".  I'm reading up on Noetics and have posted a couple of hubs on mind over matter, and that "energy" or "God" is accessible; it takes some practice and some re-thinking about getting less immersed in the material world.

      2. knlub2 profile image61
        knlub2posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Tim-- Oh but there is a God... God is everything. You say you don't believe in God, but in a strong energy force...but that force you speak of is God... God is not a person, it's everything (us, the trees, the rocks, the moon, etc). God is light, God is all that exists.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Then why on earth do you chose to use a word that means a being?

          By any one's definition "God" with a Capital G, surely has to have a personality?

          And if "God" is all that exists, does this God need to be worshipped? Does this God have rules for us to follow? Does this God need to be believed in? smile

          1. 0
            Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            God does not need to be worshiped. God created the universe in order to give. But the universe could not contain God and shattered. The desire to give to a receiver created polar opposites. In order to give you must have a willing receiver otherwise the giver would be a demanding force, one who forces his energy on us. In order to receive we must be willing. If we are willing to receive of God, it is worship. Just like the desire to give to a receiver automatically created a difference in the two.

        2. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You just described reality, perception, nature! Why can't energy just be energy, and God just be God?

    19. Shealy Healy profile image61
      Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

      I really believe in self-empowerment. And, I believe we are the creators (for the most part) of our lives. But....what about the parctice of Kunalini rising energy? The energy that exists within our own bodies. Itis within us but also aligned and connected with other forms of universal energies that some see as god. When we realize and release this energy we become more spiritually awakened. We become changed. Why?

      1. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        In order to access that level of intense energy within yourself you have to first have delved into yourself and uncovered it.  It doesn't happen spontaneously, or very rarely.

        Paradoxically one may become awakened, but that's not necessarily an awakening to forces with integrity.  Mostly it is because in order to achieve this awakening, it's done through spiritual guidance.  But having said that, it can be corrupted.

        When it awakened in me - holy sh*t batman!!  It's very intense and not easy to hold.

    20. 0
      Scott.Lifeposted 7 years ago

      They say (they being some modern physicists) that if you look closely enough at the most basic structure of particles that everything is in fact energy and in motion. Electrons and protons are merely differently charged concentrations of energy. They go on further to say that this energy is common to all and in all. I think it is more plausible to think of an originating source of energy that is in us all and unites all the universe then to picture an old man in a long beard sitting on a cloud in Heaven.

      Jesus repeatedly remarked that the kingdom of heaven as well as God were to be found in us not separate from us. Heaven was in essence not a place but a way of existing. As soon as I say all this though I know there are those who will no doubt have some issue with it on both sides. Oh well.

      1. wyanjen profile image87
        wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Nice to see you Scott.

        This is a completely rational thought that provides for spirituality AND reality. There is no contradiction of established science, no attempt to validate centuries-old mythology.

        No issues from this atheist! wink

        1. 0
          Scott.Lifeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think if I ever were to really expand on my notions of God, creation, science and the Universe, I'd have people on both sides in a fit. I was once told my mind had wandered so far off the map that search parties had given up. I believe that the basic tenants of both sides fall far to short in providing an all encompassing explanation. At that point I think it falls to the individual to immerse themselves in every available data both secular and religious, and through filtering and internalization to come to a conclusion based on what they have learned.

          Finally it is important to remain flexible and open to new information as it develops. By this we can grow and further expand as time goes by. Rigid belief is stagnation.

          1. Evolution Guy profile image61
            Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No issues from this atheist either.

            As soon as you give this  a name "god" and tell me it sent it's one and only son "jesus" to save the us from the sin we were born into - but only if I do as you say. Then we have a problem Houston.

            And what is also logical is that we came first - the "energy" later. wink

          2. wyanjen profile image87
            wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I married a non-practicing christian. We had an outdoor ceremony (no church) presided by a methodist minister (not catholic, lutheran, episcopalian, or god-free).
            Not one single person was happy with this choice including myself. But I made that choice because if I had favored one religion or tradition, all the others would have felt even more unhappy I think.
            Note: it was a wonderful ceremony, after the fact every person was smiling.

            What you are saying here made me remember this, because I do believe that when everybody is unhappy, the right choice was made. If everybody disagrees with you, that can only be a good thing.

            Back to the point: in my case, it's the rigid belief that gets me upset, not the search for spirituality.

            1. Crawling Surface profile image59
              Crawling Surfaceposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              First I think it important to point out that there is nothing biblical/scriptural as far as God the Father being an old man with a beard, so on and so forth. As a matter of fact, according to the bible God is a spirit he has nothing that you can look at or even identify with, Jesus is in fact (according to scripture) the express image of the invisible God, He is (as far as the bible is concerned) The God of the Old Testament, YHWH/Jehovah, robed in flesh. Jesus is of course the Son, not the everlasting Son (nothing scriptural about that), rather the only begotten Son. He is also the Everlasting Father (whom consequently is a Spirit/Holy Ghost)SEE ISAIAH 9:6. I could wright all day where this subject is concerned.
              As far as the comment Scott.Life made concerning they (they being some modern physicists), I would have to agree, as the bible also states that God (spirit) is in fact unapproachable light, is not light energy? The bible also states that in the new Jerusalem there will be no need for the sun or moon to shine, as the Lamb, (Jesus)is the light thereof, Did I mention that the father (this spirit of unapproachable light dwells in Jesus(without measure).
              As far as God being found in us, that would consist of an indwelling of the Holy Ghost (the spirit of Jesus, which takes on attributes of the Everlasting Father, and the only begotten Son). This same Holy Ghost that was given to the Apostles on the day of Pentecost, Acts Ch. 2 (this took place 50 days/7 weeks after the death of Christ, hence PENTE=5 or in this case 50). Furthermore science has everything to do with the actual evolution in which the Almighty creates. The bible says that God created For six days, and on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Understand that this creation takes place in eternity, there was no such notion as time, a day (where God was concerned) was from A-B, in other words he set out to accomplish something and however long it took to complete (or evolve) said project was considered a day. One of these days could have lasted for eons.
              Finally to the Atheist, If those that were a part of that search party were Trinitarian (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, so on and so forth). Then I can understand why they would say that your mind had wondered so far off the map. The bottom line is that the mind of the Trinitarian has not wandered far enough. Their view of God is completely fallible. They must themselves wander a little further off the reservation before they can start to comprehend what this thing is really about. In any case God Bless

      2. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well said, nothing there that isn't true. It's all within.

    21. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago

      I have pondered this often.  What really adds fuel to the fire is to think that could be an intelligence associated with this energy.

      1. 0
        Scott.Lifeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This is also a theory being explored and has been given a boost by recent experiments in Russia given the nickname the Phantom Effect, in which particles in a vacuum were exposed to DNA and grouped around the sample, maintaining their formation even after the DNA was removed. The point being that simple electrons respond to the presence of organic matter, for no understandable reason as of yet.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The energy is there for you to connect to any time you wish.

          No "intelligence" no "rules" no "wrong" or "right" it just "is" smile

          1. rhamson profile image77
            rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I am happy with I don't know yet.  But it is very fasinating.

        2. shazwellyn profile image84
          shazwellynposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Did you know you were coming up to 666 posts!  Will you post again?? hehehe

          1. rhamson profile image77
            rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I guess it blew right by me.  I don't think much of that number much because the last three digits of my postal code end in 666.

            1. getitrite profile image80
              getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Speaking of symbolisms, you guys should read this hub:

              http://hubpages.com/hub/Negative-Symbol … ls-of-Evil

            2. shazwellyn profile image84
              shazwellynposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              * spooky * Lol x

        3. Williamjordan profile image59
          Williamjordanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          yes God is just as much and energy as we are we all have energy assiocated with us it the type of energy that maks the difference we need more postive energy a spiritual life is a life full of postive energy.

          1. tantrum profile image61
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            a true spiritual life it's a life that has found the Equilibrium between Good and Evil.
            Good can't exist without Evil
            Evil can't exist without Good
            And it doesn't have anything to do with a God.

          2. rhamson profile image77
            rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I try where I can.

      2. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        Let me give an example of something that a Yoga master might share. There is a school of thought that teaches - when the subtle energy of the physical body is awakened spiritual enlightenment is obtained. So, about 15 years ago I began a study of Kundalini Yoga and meditation. I found it hard to remain still enough to really focus my mind long enough to complete the meditations. But, then it happened. One evening when practicing my meditation alone at home-I experienced a physical sensation that Yoga masters talk about. A zipper like energy soared up my spine  and toward my heart. I was amazed-just trust me. Anyway, that experience was not the spiritual awakening or the Kundalini (energy) awakening that Yoga masters speak about-but that was an opening of real energies that exist within all of our bodies. So, over the years as I have continued this practice I have become more tuned in with the energy that sits right within my own body-my spiritual development or alignment with God is more simple yet more intense. I find this to be an amazing fact. Why would a human have to work for years to experience something that is right within their own body? Why wouldn't a human being have the ability to simply desire to know this spiritual power that exists within us-and then we have  and know it? Why the work?

        1. 0
          Scott.Lifeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think we spend far too much time focused on finding external answers to our questions instead of looking within. Thought is reality, and the mind in need of development. I hate to quote scripture as I am not religious, but in Roman's it says "be transformed by a renewing of your mind", not your soul. I have had many experiences from meditation and thought that go against traditional religious dogma. Am I to disregard them then or give credence to the notion that there's just more beyond what I know and have been taught.

        2. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Are you familiar with the Pentecostal faith?  We would experience that every Sunday!

        3. wyanjen profile image87
          wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          If meditation and yoga were the dominant spirituality in our culture instead of christianity, more people would be aware of it.
          Your mind is more attuned to god not because he is in you, but because your own spirituality is stronger. Your belief got amplified. If you were not a believer before it happened, something else would have been amplified instead. Whatever you personally attribute energy to.

        4. tantrum profile image61
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Kundalini Yoga works with the chakras. Opening the Chakras is a very amazing experience. But what does that has to do with God ?
          I'm an atheist and can experience the same as you or more.
          This is about energies. Not God involved in the process.
          And some people don't need years to  understand this, It took me only a month to understand it.

        5. rebekahELLE profile image91
          rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I understand what you're asking and yet I don't really look at
          'discovery' as work. I'm sure you have noticed that the more you open your mind, your self, the more life vibrates around you?

          as people we have evolved so much that we often forget the great significance of being a human being. we become more focused on the 'work' part of being a human rather than the 'being' aspect of our lives. we surround ourselves with too much everything and miss the beauty of even a quiet breath.

          kind of like the pause between a note in music, it allows the music to flow harmoniously. smile

      3. 0
        poetlorraineposted 7 years ago

        his holy spirit is his energy as far as i know, isn't it

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          neutral neutral neutral neutral neutral

      4. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        That's right, tantrum.
        As a moralist, (hic...) I can agree that morals are essencial to man (ethics).
        Planet's evolution affected by morals would be much more promising than affected by any religion.
        And every day there's proof of this.

        and cheers, tantrum.

        1. tantrum profile image61
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Zampano ! good 2 C  U ! big_smile

      5. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 7 years ago

        Tantrum,

        That was "twisted goat herder."

        1. tantrum profile image61
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I know!lol
          to synthesize : Twistet goat herder, or twisted goat, the same entity I think. Maybe I'm wrong ? My bad ,then smile

          1. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            So back to the original question: Is God an Energy?  The answer is no, because there is no god.  That was all made up by some crazed goat herders, and others, who are long dead.  The premise is irrelevant!

            1. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It's no wonder why your beliefs prevail with limited resistance.  With rational, logical thoughts, and conclusions like these how could anyone disagree?

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                But it's the real truth, not the "truth" you speak of. your truth is utter nonsense.

                1. Cagsil profile image84
                  Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey getitrite,

                  What you seem to be missing? is the simple fact that what you consider the truth isn't necessarily what other people consider truth.

                  So, why are YOU trying so hard to convince someone else that your truth is real.

                  You are insulting, and harmful to yourself, because it is your ignorance that which makes you continue to barrade other people about their belief system, which is INSIDE them and not you.

                  Why don't you find something better to do with your time? Like go write a hub on your own specific belief.

                  Either way, either be nice and respectful or pay the price.

                  Pay the price- means be reported for being an 'a$$' and attacking others without cause.

                  Your sole belief, which YOU cannot prove is correct isn't the way to go about this.

                  1. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    UNBELIEVABLE!!!  neutral

      6. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

        Can energy itself be sentient?

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Are you speaking in terms of something like Chi?  Or, are you referring to something scientific that includes sentient as property of energy?  Energy (U), both kinetic and potential are pretty well defined within the realms of science for a defined body.  However, science does try to explain certain phenomena with new energy such as dark energy, so I guess sentient by itself deserves a shot.

      7. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        I wonder when an amazing experience of the metaphysical happens-how does the believe differ from the non believer in the way they/you describe the experience?

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I grew up in the Pentecostal church.  I was "saved" while still very young.  I remember jumping and shouting, and speaking in tongues, etc.  Back then, as a believer, I was absolutely sure it was God. But, now, when something similar happens, my reaction is:  I don't know what caused that.yikes  I just don't know.
          That's what this ex-believer perceives.

        2. wyanjen profile image87
          wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Non-believers are OK with not being able to explain every little abstract thing.
          If something happens to me that I don't understand, I don't put it in the "god did it" category.
          It is not any less amazing because it is not divine.
          Actually, that makes it more amazing to me smile

      8. Cagsil profile image84
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago
        1. wyanjen profile image87
          wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sure

      9. glendoncaba profile image81
        glendoncabaposted 7 years ago

        Of course God is Energy!  He is not just an energy, God is The Energy.  Incomprehensible Energy.  Supernatural Energy.  Omnipotent Energy.  Creative Energy.

        But the word energy by itself does not describe all the attributes of God.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I can think of a few words! lol

          1. glendoncaba profile image81
            glendoncabaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Ernie!  Funny as ever.  Sorta irreverent joke but I had to laugh.

      10. Paradise7 profile image87
        Paradise7posted 7 years ago

        This is an interesting question, and the answers are interesting.  I see a trend in a lot of people's thinking that moves away from the traditional Judeo-Christian view of "God" as the Great White Father and more towards the amorphous, omnipresent view of God as a Force in the Universe; energy, or power.  That's good, open our minds, let spirit flow.

      11. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        mohitmisra wrote-Intesesting and truthful.I guess it our ego which prevents us from seeing god in all, actually the Light in all.


        I agree-Perhaps working to raise our own energy level does not simply raise us higher to God-but it first clears away our ego. Then, and only then-can we walk closer to god wisdom.

        This thought feels right to me...

        Smile....

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          smile

          1. 0
            zampanoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            These are very realistic, nice aims.
            And they are in reach of anyone of us.
            Let's improve one step at a time.

      12. prettydarkhorse profile image63
        prettydarkhorseposted 7 years ago

        cmon happy halloween, take a break,,,please...HUGS to all

      13. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 7 years ago

        May the Energy bless us and save us.

      14. Cagsil profile image84
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago

        Anyone who practices any religion whatsoever is not a self-responsible person.

        Self-responsibility is to have FULL control of your life.

        This means YOU are to take care of yourself FIRST.

        And, every religion, no matter where- says, "GOD, before self".

        You can never have FULL control of your own life IF you put someone before you.

        If you cannot live by your own conscience- and have to be told how to live.

        How is that SELF-Responsible?

        1. aka-dj profile image79
          aka-djposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You have just opposed the first commandment.
          This is the root of pride.
          The same Book teaches us that we are to exercise SELF-control. It's secondary to worshiping God, (not self).
          But, I think I understand what you are getting at. big_smile

        2. advisor4qb profile image79
          advisor4qbposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Because God is ever-present with the Christ within (the "still small voice within" that we tend to  drown out and ignore). 

          If you cast every burden on the Christ within, you can go free to find health, wealth, love and perfect self-expression in your Promised Land. 

          Cast anger and resentment aside and don't worry about how others live or choose to believe.  When the time is right for them, the truth will become readily apparent.

          1. topshelf profile image78
            topshelfposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I really agree with both of you guys. I def don't believe God is an energy at all. That's why it's called faith...

      15. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        The ultimate proof that god is energy is in this here thread.
        If my memory is good, energy is defined by anything that produces work.
        When I see all the work expressed here by the ocean of words this thread is made of, all about god (ie about ourselves), we can say that god is surely energy, cause it produces threads that turn round and round as if animated by a perpetual movement like a rosary or  prayer beads being moved between fingers while the payer goes on and on, becoming more and more meaningless with time.
        Just work generated by energy.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Energy is not "anything that produces work."  It is a capacity, measurement, magnitude etc./ability to do work.  Each word has to be chosen carefully depending on the type/form of energy described. This a good outline of energy that I posted earlier:

          Energy can be defined as the capacity for doing work, but that capacity can reside in many different forms. Broad forms such as mechanical, electrical, chemical, nuclear, solar can be envisioned.

          Large amounts of energy exist in the form of internal energy within objects at normal temperatures. As several of the energy examples point out, the processes of heating and cooling are much more energy intensive than purely mechanical processes.

          Almost any process in nature can be viewed as some kind of energy transfer process. While it is not practical to try to categorize all the kinds of energy transfer processes, we can state that none of them involve any net gain or loss of energy. The principal of conservation of energy constrains the kind of processes which can occur in nature.

          http://230nsc1.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbasees/hframe.html

      16. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        Cagsil, have you researched alternative spiritualities that encourage your spiritual ideas to come from within (your own intuitions)?

        Shealy

      17. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        my scripture is :
        Manual of mechanics.
        And it was not written by illuminated half mad old man of the ancient times in a tongue you can hardly "translate" nowdays.
        It is a precious book of the 20th century translated in evey language you can imagine.
        And all agree with its meaning.
        And its content is for ever evolving.

        Hi Shealy. Nice to see you.


        "Almost any process in nature can be viewed as some kind of energy transfer "

        ediggity
        can you name any exception ?

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well science says that work in mechanics is:
          an activity involving a force and movement in the direction of the force. A force of 20 newtons pushing an object 5 meters in the direction of the force does 100 joules of work.

          energy is:
          the capacity for doing work. You must have energy to accomplish work - it is like the "currency" for performing work. To do 100 joules of work, you must expend 100 joules of energy.

          and lastly Power in mechanics:
          is the rate of doing work or the rate of using energy, which are numerically the same. If you do 100 joules of work in one second (using 100 joules of energy), the power is 100 watts.

        2. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No I can't.  Can you?

      18. aware profile image71
        awareposted 7 years ago

        is god energy? maybe. maybe not.

      19. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        No man.
        I can't.
        But I didn't say "almost".
        I'd say :
        any process in nature can be viewed as some kind of energy transfer, partly quoting you.

        Thanks for the link.

        And in my answer to Shealy's question I was not concerned about quantifying. Just generalyties.
        and fun.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I can't take credit for that definition.  That's why I gave you the link.  Additionally, unless you know every single process, and have studied all of them, I think "almost" suits the definition just fine.

      20. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        I have asked this question because forms of meditation, breathing and movement claim to create spiritual enlightenment. I have been working with energy meditation for  a while-and I have absolutely discovered a spiritual path due to the practice. So, yesterday after working with a few gals on a meditation I began to ponder-why would the human body hold inside an energy that is like God wisdom? Why would the human being have to work to achieve the God wisdom? Why would this energy be difficult to obtain?

        Smireles because you asked me to express  why I asked this question "Is God an Energy"? I will share my website with you. I don't want anyone here to think I am self promoting. I enjoy hearing the thoughts and ideas of others. Most of what I have learned in life I have learned from my own intuitive methods or the actions of others. Seeing my website might help you to understand why I ponder such things.

        <URL snipped - no link promotion in the Forums>

      21. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        OK. For the sake of prudence which belongs to a scientific attitude.
        Almost then.
        Even if we don't know of any exceptions.
        Now, we sure can talk about energy forms, knowing that they all have energy in common.

        The remark done by Smireles about one meaning of energy being spirit is rather interesting.
        Maybe our treaties of physics are just a parallel way of writing a kind of bible and all are seeking the same.

      22. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        I would read a bible written by a physicist.

      23. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        And I would read it all to you
        I'm going to have dinner now.
        Just filling up my energy.
        I'm eating god.
        hehehe

      24. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago

        No, god is a figment of your imagination.

        1. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          LOL. Great scientific reply to aid in the debate of whether or not GOD is energy.  No wonder everyone believes what you do.

          1. Sexy jonty profile image60
            Sexy jontyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hey ediggity .... how are you .... I think god is in our imagination , beliefs , mind etc ..... but it is just so wrong to say it a energy .... It's a faith .....

            1. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Sexy jonty.  I'm good.  How are you?

              If you read some of my previous posts you will see I also do not believe that GOD can be defined as energy.

      25. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago

        sexyJ imagine one of the molecules that are in your little toe asking if there is a sexy J, or is she a figment it its imagination. That molecule will ask "is sexy J a toe"? What is she exactly? explain her to me so that I can understand and if you can not explain her to me then she must not exist.  It will never understand who sexy J is.. What IT doesn't understand is that if sexy J does not exist  where did the toe and the molecule go?
        You might say that we are all a figment of Gods imagination.

      26. 0
        zampanoposted 7 years ago

        Hi Sexy jonty.
        What if God was a nice Pair ?

        1. Australia unplugs profile image60
          Australia unplugsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Or a whole page of them! lol

      27. spiderpam profile image57
        spiderpamposted 7 years ago

        I guess Evolguy had to run. lol Spiderpam out~

      28. getitrite profile image80
        getitriteposted 7 years ago

        @ Evolution Guy

        I believe in dragons, and unicorns, and leprechauns, and mermaids, and Santa Claus, and flying reindeer, and the jolly green giant, and Thor, and Crum.

        And all your scientific rubbish can't prove me wrong! lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I know, I know.

          Not enough proof.

          The funny thing is how ridiculous their attacks are. And even if every single one of the millions of facts that prove evolution were a lie - where does that leave them? LOL

          No where.

          Still just a religionist belief that it is OK to stick an invisible GOD up everyone's behind. sad

          They are never going to get it.

          1. ediggity profile image60
            ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            If all your, "millions of facts"(LOL) prove evolution are a lie where does that leave you?  Or would you just turn your back on evolution, and say that you still have universal energy?  As a person of faith I don't have to worry about whether or not evolution is true, because I don't believe in it.  Just like you don't have to worry whether or not GOD is true, because you don't believe in GOD.  Unfortunately, for now, it is you who is not getting it.  However, I pray that one day you do.

            I was once told a man can think three different ways.  With his mind, his heart, and with his third leg.

          2. Bibowen profile image89
            Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Where it leaves me is dying and being wrong. I'll die with many other wrong ideas that I now possess. I'll be dead and my existence will end. I will have been wrong.

            But if I'm right that God exists and one day you and I will be judged for what we did in this life, where does that leave you? As I see it, I don't have to be right and you had better be right.

            Another way to put it, if I'm wrong, I've lost nothing. If you're wrong, you lose all.

            1. Evolution Guy profile image61
              Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              So - you believe "just in case"?

              What a solid foundation. wink

              Of course - you might find that any one of the hundreds of other gods was the right one and you are in big trouble. lol

              As I always say - Christianity is based on fear - and that is all. Which is why it will always hold us back.

              I can smell your fear through the computer screen. It is not a pleasant smell. smile

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I think I better become a Hari Krishna, you know...just in case.

              2. Bibowen profile image89
                Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You must be a "sensitive nineties guy..."

        2. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          What scientific rubbish???  Where's your science?  You and Evolution Guy keep referring to science, yet you fail to provide anything to support it. What you guys believe is a philosophy.  Please don't confuse that with science, unless you combine the two.  But that would mean you actually have to provide some proof, and everyone here has seen that you don't do that.  I've provided more scientific facts in this topic than anyone, and I'm Christian.  Are you another follower of science who doesn't actually understand it?

          1. Evolution Guy profile image61
            Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            LOLOLO

            What scientific facts have you provided that in any way pertain to GOD?

            You really are very funny.

            And just here for the fight - like a good christian. wink

            1. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't say I provided any scientific facts pertaining to GOD.  Ther'es that comprehension problem again.  Your opinion wasn't factored into my statements, but you added it anyway.  GOD is faith remember, science is facts.  I provided facts about science.  I am not going to re post all of them, but you can re-read my posts and see them.  I posted facts about energy, and YOUR BELIEF of the UNIVERSAL FORCE. Yet you and getitrite who reference science and facts provided none.  You've only provided your philosophies on life.  Nothing more.

          2. getitrite profile image80
            getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I think it's more about common sense.  You can use the science of evolution and others to imply that nonbelievers can't prove the Darwinian theory, but where does that really lead you. Nowhere!  Religions are all man-made, a fact that's not negated by finding flaws in the theory of evolution.

            1. Valerie F profile image60
              Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It's a "fact" that in most cases can't be proven.

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You will believe what you want to believe.  I can't prove that those women were not "witches" that were burned to death in Salem.  But I believe there are no such beings as witches, although I can't prove it.

            2. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Oh ok then common sense.  Let me renig on everything I've said and say that science relies on common sense now.  Ok then the properties of energy are now common sense everyone, and so is Darwin's THEORY. LOL

              1. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No!  Animals rely on common sense to survive.  One survival technique is knowing when you are being deceived.

                1. ediggity profile image60
                  ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  What are you talking about?  You're all over the map man.  Please read your posts, and ask yourself if they make any sense at all.  Survival of the fittest, ony the strong survive. LOL

                  1. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I went back and checked my post and I think you may have been somewhat extreme in your scrutiny of my communication.  Would you like me to tell you that, after checking, I found that none of what I wrote makes any sense?  We are, clearly, not on he same page.

                    It was fun, but, this is a real sickness, I believe.
                    Peace,

                    1. ediggity profile image60
                      ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      Clearly not.

                      I don't want you to tell me anything.  If I wanted you yo tell me something I would have wrote:
                      Please read your posts, and ask yourself if they make any sense at all.  Then re-address the points you were originally trying to make.

                      I didn't write that though.  That's just you adding your own opinion to my statements.

                      Glad you were trying to have "fun" with science.  Sometimes that approach helps people learn new things.  Unless, of course, it's all just common sense.

      29. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 7 years ago

        I like Evolution Guy. He thinks.

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Amazing facility thinking, and rare as rocking horse s**t!

      30. Shealy Healy profile image61
        Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

        Some of us posting here have also posted on "Do You Believe in the Devil?" There are interesting contradictions in our views of energy as a source of spirit. Most are willing to believe there is not a devil-instead choosing to see the origins of evil to be connected to a metaphysical energy. Yet, when researching God-most refuse to consider God an energy. I wonder why?


        I posted the topic "Do You Believe in the Devil?" using the very child-like term we might have all used when children. I think many individuals have a tendency to view a devil figure from a child-like perspective. That is an interesting observance of human nature.

        Shealy

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          And the same for god , a figure of Jesus or Krishna. smile

        2. Bibowen profile image89
          Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I did not post to your other question about the devil but I do believe that both God and Lucifer are personal beings. Also, given that the universe could not have existed for eternity, we needed a transcendent being to bring the universe into existence at the first instance. This is why I think that the quest for God cannot be satiated by merely looking for a "force" or "energy" within the universe. Such an "energy" would not be "God." A being that transcends the universe and is the creator of it would be greater than a being or "force" that merely inhabits the universe and is a part of it.

          1. Evolution Guy profile image61
            Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            What utter nonsense.

            "Personal beings"LOL
            "Needed a transcendent being" LOLOL
            "merely inhabits" LOLOL

            What religionist nonsense you spout. You have obviously never connected to "god" and get all your information from a book. wink

            1. ediggity profile image60
              ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              That's it?  You're just going to attack his post, and not offer any counter argument to support your stance?

              1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                What possible counter argument could I offer? There was no argument in the first place.

                Yet another absolute religionist statement that starts with "I believe."

                So - that is what he believes. That is not an argument. It is a statement of baseless, unfounded, irrational beliefs phrased in such a way as to leave no room for discussion, and based on nothing whatsoever. It is clear to me this person has never had personal experience of what the OP describes as god and is determined to push his religionist agenda. As usual. Or are you pretending we have never spoken before?

                All it deserves is ridicule. Which is what it got.

                If you want a counter argument you have to offer an argument in the first place.

                A decent dictionary might help? Maybe ? Just a suggestion.

                1. ediggity profile image60
                  ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm just pointing what you replied to.  LOL, no dictionary can help define what you do, because you make it up.  I think you may need that dictionary:
                  Webster
                  Main Entry: spo·ken
                  Pronunciation: \ˈspō-kən\
                  Function: adjective
                  Etymology: past participle of speak
                  Date: 1560

                  1 : delivered by word of mouth : oral
                  2 : characterized by speaking in (such) a manner —used in combination <soft-spoken> <plainspoken>

                  No, I can't say we have.

            2. Bibowen profile image89
              Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              The "personal being" claim is that a being that could produce a universe like ours would likely possess the capacity of decision, since the “coming into existence” of the universe would appear to be a creative act. Creative acts originate in creators. Since our experiences are that decisions are made by personal beings, it’s more reasonable to believe that the being that created the universe is personal.

              As for the "transcendence" claim, a being within the universe would not be capable of bringing the universe into existence, since he is a part of the universe. Such a being is in need of a causal explanation just like everything else within the universe. That’s why I would not look to any force or energy within the universe as "God" (which is what the original question was about). Such forces might reflect God's attributes, but they are not coincidental with them.

          2. mohitmisra profile image61
            mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            "The Light that shines beyond the stars,
            Is the same in my heart." smile

        3. 0
          zampanoposted 7 years ago

          hehehe Earnest.
          And fluent like verborrhoea.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I love new words! smile

          2. Sexy jonty profile image60
            Sexy jontyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            what that means  ................

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              The two words, verbal and diarrhea are made in to one word. OK?

              1. Sexy jonty profile image60
                Sexy jontyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for that reply ...... earnest ....

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  You are most welcome! smile
                  Is English your first language or are you very clever and have learnt it as a second language?

                  1. Sexy jonty profile image60
                    Sexy jontyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I am clever but English is not my first language ....... It's the third language I have learnt ......

                    1. earnestshub profile image88
                      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      Wow. Very impressive. You seem to have a good idea of written English language concepts as well, I wish I had better language skills. smile

                      1. Sexy jonty profile image60
                        Sexy jontyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                        are you joking ? or are you serious ?

                        serious : Thanks
                        Joking : I feel sorry for you

                        1. earnestshub profile image88
                          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                          Serious! It is a very difficult language to understand. I have taught English to my adopted son, and some things were quite difficult. I admire your skill! smile

        4. Jewels profile image82
          Jewelsposted 7 years ago

          I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be better to speak about personal experiences, like tangible experiences instead of likening these feelings to being God.  I'm beginning to loathe that name to be honest.

          The sensations of what God is, is different to different people dependent on their own experience.  When you talk about kundulini - that is a whole different ball game to someone sitting in a church and getting high on hymns - not that I've done that in a church ever.

          God is becoming more and more a vague concept.  Any wonder everyone argues about being right or wrong in their understanding of what it is.

          Shealy - how did you come to have your kundulini experience?

          1. Shealy Healy profile image61
            Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I worked with spiritual groups. To be honest I did not like the Kundalini work. But, I continued to practice. Then, one evening I experienced a physical sensation that was not Kundalini but the pre-Kundalini opening. That experienced amazed me.

            During the time of my practice and after I worked with students of particular spiritual paths. I am certain that work had much to do with the experience.

            As you said-there is more to awakening-the-energy-withing than just physical exercise.

        5. 0
          zampanoposted 7 years ago

          a funny side to all this, is we've got people here who express themselves in a language that's not mommy's, about abstract concepts that are extremely hard to express in their own mother tongue.
          hehehe this is god's salad. Like Babel.

          I appreciate Shealy's (and a few others) interventions that brought the debate to a more realistic level.
          Indeed self improvement is something worth investing on.
          And there's material proof of this.

        6. 0
          zampanoposted 7 years ago

          Even in an university amphitheatre you must have fun with science or whatever is the matter. The guy who's lecturing must have fun doing so. And his students must have a good laugh once in a while during the lecture.
          Otherwise, he just can't pass much to them.
          The big bang was a joke the universe once blew just to make us talk about it.
          With our limited mind, our limited measuring instruments.
          We don't know nothing for sure, we're just trying hypothesis and common sense is not always "good" sense.
          Sometimes it is disturbing to notice how strongly convictions can be rooted in some people's minds, but if we keep mixed participations in these threads, we might have a chance to learn something.
          From my point of view, even if she'll not have the last post, Shealy's idea is the one to prevail.
          Self improvement, which is a high compatibility concept.
          I'll drink to that.

        7. andromida profile image75
          andromidaposted 7 years ago

          No one knows.perhaps he loves to keep us guessing about him.

        8. Shealy Healy profile image61
          Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

          Ediggity-if I may ask without being disrespectful- do you consider yourself a button pusher or a bit of a rebel? I have noticed you seem to provoke lots of responses.

          I must say it is a gift to have such power.

          Shealy Healy

          1. ediggity profile image60
            ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I consider myself neither.  I am just a dude who likes to waste time on the internet.

        9. 0
          TMinutposted 7 years ago

          Bibowen, instead of:
          A being that transcends the universe and is the creator of it would be greater than a being or "force" that merely inhabits the universe and is a part of it

          Do you think perhaps the universe is an 'inhabitant' and a part of God?

          1. Bibowen profile image89
            Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No, I hold to a Christian conception of God which is that God is the Creator of the universe and distinct from it. I'm not neo-orthodox, but I do like the expression that God is "wholly other." Since the Christian conception of God is that of a timeless and spaceless being, there would be no "place" for the universe to reside in relation to him.

        10. 0
          TMinutposted 7 years ago

          What about "in him I live and move and have my being"? I don't think anything IS without the Almighty I AM. A matter of mere semantics perhaps...

          1. Bibowen profile image89
            Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps. May be it's the best way to state that God is omnipresent. But, we don't always use the word "in" to denote a geographical location. Expressions like "I'm in love" or "I'm in a good mood" denote more of a state or condition than a location.

        11. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 7 years ago

          God absolutely is energy!!!    But energy is only a small  miniscule portion of all that he is   because he .."IS".. EVERYthing.   We on the other hand ....   are a very miniscule portion of the insiginifigance molecule  of what he is..  And listen to us talkin down on who HE is!  Why does HE do that???  Who does HE think that HE is

             WHO ARE  WE  EXACTLT  to be doin that ???

          1. Jewels profile image82
            Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hey speak for yourself Jerami!  I am not insignificant.

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry Jewels .. I WAS talking about my self being insignificant and just a few others that seem to have no respect for creation or it's source.

        12. 0
          TMinutposted 7 years ago

          True, that's more along the lines of what I was thinking anyway, not geographically in, just existing in. I suppose it's that I don't consider God as "being somewhere".

        13. Shealy Healy profile image61
          Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago

          Just a quote-Hindu Cosmology upholds the idea that creation is timeless, having no beginning in time. Each creation is preceded by dissolution and each dissolution is followed by creation.

          Is it possible God is evolving along with us?

          1. mohitmisra profile image61
            mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No there is no evolution for god, its all his play. smile

          2. Bibowen profile image89
            Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I am willing to go with an idea that extends my comprehension of some aspect of reality, but a beginningless series of events does not seem just incomprehensible; it also seems incoherent.

            For example, I have a difficult time comprehending what it might be like to live for eternity. At some point, I can't wrap my mind around it. But I believe that it's possible even though it exceeds my mental grasp. So, the idea of an eternal future (that is, a potentially infinite future) seems coherent, although many aspects of such a reality are incomprehensible.

            But the idea of a beginningless past is different. I don't see how it even fits in the realm of the plausible. The problem with a beginningless series of events is that the events could never have arrived at the present moment. If they do arrive (and they have!) this would suggest to me that they did not come from an infinite past.

            That takes me back to an idea that seems more coherent which is that creation started at a point in the finite past.

            1. Evolution Guy profile image61
              Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah - but let's be honest here. You already have the answer and you need to justify that to fit what you already know from your book. wink

              An eternal future seems "coherent," but an eternal past is "not plausible"? lol lol lol

              You are quite happy that you (not any one who does not believe) are going to live forever because you believe in Jesus, but you cannot grasp the time line in the other direction?

              Even though your god is everywhere at all times? But only at the one end of the scale. The other end of the scale is limited to what you find plausible?

              I think you should remove the "I am willing" and change it to "I already have all the easy answers from the bible" don't you? That would be more honest.

              1. Bibowen profile image89
                Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Perhaps the time line goes both ways, but time appears to be biased on a forward direction, away from a single beginning. I don't think it could have come from an infinite past. If the universe is infinite in the past, that means that, now, the set of past events is infinite. But what will the set of past events be tomorrow? Infinity plus one day? If it's infinite, it can't grow any more. And I don't think that our universe contains anything that is infinite. If so, what is it? Infinity is just an idea. Our universe had a beginning in the finite past; it will end at some point in the future.

                1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                  Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  So when you say "eternal future" and "live for eternity" what you really mean is what exactly?

                  Where are we getting this "single beginning" from exactly - other than your bible?

                  You freely admit to being unable to grasp the possible eternal future, but you believe in it. Yet the same eternal past is "not plausible."

                  You now also seem to think that the god that a few hours ago was "that of a timeless and spaceless being" is now all of a sudden constrained to a one way human perception timeline.

                  So - when the universe that you now think is not going to go on eternally ends - what happens to your relationship with this god that is "the Creator of the universe and distinct from it"?

                  Make your mind up - is the universe eternal and god offering you eternal life - or will it end some time when he pulls the plug on you? Seeing as He is distinct from the Universe - I assume He continues without all the good christians?

                  You cannot have it both ways.wink

                  1. mohitmisra profile image61
                    mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Its not important , the universe may have a beginning and end or may not.
                    We will all die soon, then what, what happens to you -that is what is important. smile
                    What is your source is important. smile

                  2. Bibowen profile image89
                    Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Most of your above questions have already been addressed in earlier posts. There I distinguish between God and the universe.

                    Second, what difference does it make where the idea originated? I could have gotten the idea from discerning patterns in the passing clouds or have divined it from tea leaves. August Kekule formulated his conception of the benzene ring after having a dream of a snake biting its tail. The origin of a truth claim is irrelevant as to its veracity.

                    As for the distinction between the past and the future on the matter of infinity (speaking of the universe), I don't think that time reaches into the infinite past for the reasons I gave earlier. As for the future, I do believe that the universe has a finite existence. However, the Bible teaches that our souls will live for eternity. In this sense, I believe the future is infinite but only potentially. That is, in heaven or hell, we will be moving toward infinity as a limit, but never arriving at it.

                    1. Evolution Guy profile image61
                      Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      No . None of the questions have been addressed. You have made no argument for anything other than to say "I believe". You did not give any reasoning other than. "it seems coherent" or it is "not plausible" depending on whether it agrees with the bible or not. And now you are dancing around the questions.

                      Might as well have said "the bible says" for all of it.  lol

                      Although now souls will live outside the universe also and infinity is a limit that will not be reached. wink

                      1. 0
                        zampanoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                        what is "outside the universe" ???

                        I like "infinity is a limit" it's funny hehehe.
                        talking about limits...
                        infinity can be infinitely huge like some posts here, but also infinitely small.
                        So we have several kinds of infinities.

                        Should we "deal" with them identically ?

                        Infinite also can be space and time when you try to reach something, because before you make a distance, you must make half of the distance.
                        And before making half of the distance, you must make half of the half of the distance.
                        And so on, infinitely.
                        This is of course a paradox which finds its solution in mathematics, for the sake of the practical side in life.
                        And they are dealt identically, as if they were made of the same essence.

                        As you people love to discuss about paradoxes, I suggest this one above.
                        I'm curious about the scripture citations.
                        hehehe.

                        1. ediggity profile image60
                          ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                          Here's my limit for infinity:

                          http://lh3.ggpht.com/_3R6y9Z5zznI/SuTqzc11LgI/AAAAAAAAAB8/mz4ZPM4d5AQ/lim.jpg

                        2. Bibowen profile image89
                          Bibowenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                          Yes, the "halving the distance" is an example of what I was referring to when talking about a "potential infinite" which has the infinite as a limit you approach, but would never "arrive" or complete the journey. Take that yard stick, and keep dividing it. You will continue to divide it for eternity. But, let's be careful here: eternity would not mean "to arrive at infinity." Rather "eternity" would be you "approaching the infinite" but never arriving at infinity. In fact, when you think about it, you would be no closer to the infinite after 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 iterations than you were after the second iteration. Infinity is the limit that you approach, but you will never arrive at the "infinitieth" (is that a word?!) count, because there would always be one more that you could add to it. So, as I see it, you can't get to "infinity" by successive addition.

                          That's why I don't think this statement is correct: "Infinite also can be space and time when you try to reach something..." In dividing that object, you will never arrive at that final count that constitutes "infinity." If you stop counting, it proves that your count was finite. That's why I don't believe that the past was infinite. If the series of past events is infinite, then we have to stop counting NOW because an infinite set is a complete one, that is, we have arrived!; you can't add any more to the infinite.

                          This leads me to think that an infinite past isn't possible. You can't get to infinity by adding one event to another, and if you could not do that from this point on, it could not have been done so from the past either.

                          Now, back to the main point. If the universe has not existed from eternity, it had to have come into being in the finite past. If so, then it had to have a cause, a cause that transcends time and space (since time and space were brought into being at the beginning).

            2. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I am willing to go with an idea that extends my comprehension of some aspect of reality, but a beginningless series of events does not seem just incomprehensible; it also seems incoherent.

              god has no beginning and no end

              For example, I have a difficult time comprehending what it might be like to live for eternity. At some point, I can't wrap my mind around it. But I believe that it's possible even though it exceeds my mental grasp. So, the idea of an eternal future (that is, a potentially infinite future) seems coherent, although many aspects of such a reality are incomprehensible.

              You are thinking about time as well when you think or eternity,you need to drop time as it doesn't exist when you are with god.

            3. 0
              zampanoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Don't worry.
              A lot of us never went past basic principles of mathematics and physics. Beyond basics, all is misterious.

        14. Pr0metheus profile image61
          Pr0metheusposted 7 years ago

          God isn't created or destroyed, and has no beginning or end.

          Energy isn't created or destroyed, and has no beginning or end.

          God is the sum of everything.

          Energy is the sum of everything.




          God is a sine wave (of energy!).

          Read my hub!

        15. yeah yeah profile image59
          yeah yeahposted 7 years ago

          you lost me at hello

          -yeah yeah

        16. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 7 years ago

          Humanity thinks in terms of forward.  What If Time jumped out of the bok.... exploding into all directions ????

          1. 0
            Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            like the multi-universe theory?

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                 That could be.  If time is a force, or action then there would have to be at least one equal but opposit reaction.  I don't know where that goes I just think that it does.

        17. roberta38 profile image61
          roberta38posted 7 years ago

          The best resource I have found to clearly explain this subject of energy and God is "The Greatest Secret" by Ron Macintosh.  It can be found at www.rmmimpact.com.  Very fascinating topic indeed.  We have a radio show every Thursday at 2pm MST http://tobtr.com/s/765516 I invite each of you to join us.
          Take care,
          Roberta

          1. Shealy Healy profile image61
            Shealy Healyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Roberta-I will take a look/listen at/to your radio show. My business associate and I are on Shift Radio every Monday at 7:00 pm.

        18. 0
          Torg White Beardposted 7 years ago

          I have read in the above posts comments which reflect dogmatic elements of Materialism/Determinism/Reductionism/Agnosticism, and others which recognize the emergence of the avant garde of quantum physics in relation to a comprehensive Theory of Everything. All of that being aside, there is a reference for those of you who are opsimaths or polymaths; (the patently obvious solipsists who have scoffed, scorned, and self-righteously opined their superiority, of course, will not bother to do any research, lest their fragile belief system shatter utterly).
          It is absolutely NOT my intention to commercially promote any site, or person with the following reference. I have been in correspondence with Dr. Edward R. Close by virtue of our mutual membership in the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry, (http://thethousand.com), and am currently studying his groundbreaking, meticulously researched and exhaustively-documented theory of transcendental physics. You will find your answer therein, Ms. Healy.
          We actually do create our own Reality which transcends Space-Time-Materialism.  If you honestly seek the truth, you will do the research. If you actually are satisfied with self-identifying as a meat puppet, I grieve for your very soul. Namaste'. May Peace BE allowed with/in and without "you".

         
        working