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How does a religious person contradict having a mind?

  1. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    -How does a religious person contradict having a mind?

    How does a religious person or person of grouped belief contradict having a mind?

    1. 0
      Jawa Lunkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Could you clarify your question?

      Are you asking for proof that one can be religious and still intelligent, or stating that anyone who claims religion is incapable of having a mind of their own?

      Complete and coherent sentences in questions usually help.

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It is complete unless you seek interpretation. I'm stating that anyone that claims religion contradicts having a mind. Why is this?

      2. 0
        Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I think what he's attempting to say is : Can those who profess religious belief also have a mind that can think independently of those religious beliefs. His implication is that it cannot. Therefore, you cannot truly have your own mind if it's been filled and polluted with religious hogwash.

        It's a primitive suppostion of course, but one not without an element of truth to it.

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Thank You. Nothing to add.

          1. Dark knight rides profile image71
            Dark knight ridesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Some of the greatest thinkers ever were religious. They were able to look at the universe and see things in it that today we take for granted. Copernicus and Galileo were both Christians, who used their minds to examine that beauty of a universe and question why it worked like it did. Einstein was a believer, and his mind was genius.

            For the average person, many of whom cannot hold two thoughts in their heads at once, the idea that "religious hogwash" can coexist with genius and innovation may seem impossible. But that's probably because some haven't really made an effort to open their mind to conflicting ideas. Should try it, it's fun.

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              What you just wrote is hogwash. Your simple mind uses individuals that had genius ability so you can justify your ridiculous faith. Again, just because a person is genius in one area doesn't mean they are genius in all. A person that believes the bible rejects logic for faith. Again, a person can have genius ability in one area and be completely ignorant in others. I apologize if you can't understand this. It's not in your belief book.

              1. marinealways24 profile image61
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                If you would have read previous post's instead of jumping to the last to comment, you would see that you are repetitive.

                This has already been tried. Try something new.

    2. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Marine - I'd be a little bit more careful, if I were you. Several people have observed that your original post is not well framed. They are correct. It is unclear. When you want to challenge, it's best to do it from a position of strength.

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thank You. I thought about that. I would rather appear weak to be underestimated.

    3. tantrum profile image61
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Every person has a mind
      How they use it, is another matter.

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If someone relies on others to define their belief or non belief, they are contradicting having an individual mind to create their individual belief. This is what I was trying to get at.

      2. 0
        Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        But if their mind has been contaminated through religious nonsense, then how they use their mind is no longer down to free thought. The religious nonsense stored within their heads will act as a filter which then determines exactly how they use their mind. In effect, religious people possess a mind that has become strangled through the religious hokum they choose to believe without question.

        1. Make  Money profile image71
          Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well the same thing could be said of someone that is an atheist or someone that has had their mind contaminated with the theory of evolution.  Like religion they are both a faith belief too, because they can't prove their belief either.  So being an atheist or someone that believes in the theory of evolution will effect the way you think or how your mind works as well.

          So marinealways24's stupid questions could be rephrased like this.

          How does an atheist contradict having a mind? lol 

          How does an atheist or person of grouped belief in evolution contradict having a mind? lol

          I mean these forums are proof of how atheism or evolution contaminates a mind.  Basically why bother to be concerned if you don't believe.  The fact that so many atheists are concerned about someone else's belief and even attack it shows that atheism detrimentally effects your minds.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

               Ha Mike.. well said.  May be if the atheist have never heard the small quiet voice. or been kicked out of the way of a runaway train by an invisible boot. That kinda thing does open a person's mind.

            1. Make  Money profile image71
              Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah I'd say so Jerami. smile

              Maybe the voice the atheist heard wasn't small and quiet or maybe they got a boot for no apparent reason. lol

              1. Jerami profile image78
                Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I guess that I'm a bit naive. I was 18 before I was aware that there were things such as Gays, bisexuals, or perverts. It never dawned on me that there were as many nonbelievers as there are. I thought that everyone had a little buddy sitin on their shoulder whispering in their ear. "if ya go down that road you might get stuck in tha mud". or " ha man ya better check and see if..."   many times I was courageous and went down that road anyway, I didn't ALWAYS get stuck. And sometimes I didn't stop and check if ...  and something didn't always fall off when I didn't check. 
                    Any way if I didn't have my little buddy; who knows? I might not believe in him either.

          2. jenblacksheep profile image84
            jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Neither evolution or atheism is a 'faith belief'. I suppose you could say evolution is a belief, I'm not entirely sure I agree. But atheism is the LACK of a belief or faith in a God, not the belief or faith in the lack of God. There's a difference.

            However, I think Marine's question is based on a big assumption: that everyone starts from a position of belief and that atheism comes from a struggle against those beliefs, and that people who remain in a position of belief are just blind followers. Which is complete rubbish.

          3. 0
            Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            There is no God in atheism. And neither are there a set of beliefs with which atheists must adhere to in order to live their lives.

            Yes, believing in the truth of evolution does affect how my mind works. But crucially, a belief system of worship, of God, of adherence to supernatural nonsense does not arise as a consequence of my belief in the truth of evolution. It's a neutral position not dependent on an external force.

            I can be an atheist and live my life unhindered and unfettered by atheistic faith because atheism has no faith. All your point does is highlight to atheists the magnitude of your contamination by a nonsense faith.

            1. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I hate to tell you, but believers are not going to get this.  You see, they think atheist are being manipulated by the Devil, so anything you say can't be absorbed by them, because the bias is too heavy.

              1. Smireles profile image83
                Smirelesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I hate to tell YOU this but you have no understanding of what believers think. I am constantly amazed when I hear the nonsense coming from a group of people who vow they do not believe in God, but keep coming back to the discussion to tell believers how stupid, ignorant, and sheep like they follow the Bible and whoever is leading the church where they attend.

                Jesus Christ said, "Whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely." That means it is a choice. I choose to follow Jesus Christ because of my faith in Jesus Christ, not a bunch of rules and regs issued by the "Church".

                Contrary to what you have stated, I do NOT believe that you all are being manipulated by the devil. God gives everyone a choice. I choose to believe. You choose not to believe. That is the end of it. I am perfectly happy to follow Jesus Christ. I do not live in fear of hell or anything else.

                I believe that when this live ends I will be in the Presence of the Lord. You think it will be all over. Only one of us is right. To be honest, I do not really care. I am sorry for you but beyond that it is your choice. I made my choice a long time ago and it has served me well.

                1. Cagsil profile image78
                  Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey, just make sure that you understand Jesus Christ's words, the time he lived and the real understanding your suppose to get from his words.

                  I'm being serious- if you simply want to believe in Jesus Christ and you consider him your god- then that would be good not bad, because he was a real person and his teachings were meant for the betterment of humanity.

                  How ever, do not put Jesus Christ in the SAME category with religion.

                  Jesus was NOT a prophet!

                  Jesus was NOT a god(even though he saw himself as a god)!

                  Jesus was NOT a minister of religion!

                  Yes, Jesus was jewish born, but he wasn't a religious person.

                  He didn't preach religion- He Preached Life!

                  The reason I said that you need to understand the time he lived, is to understand where mankind was and what was happening around Jesus Christ, which is what drove him to preach Life to followers.

                  If you don't know that- then the context of what you read is going to end up being wrong. I just wanted to let you know.

                  Stay away from religion. It has no basis in life. I just recently wrote a new hub about some complete research I have on Life and it's meaning.(not self-promoting)

                  It's sure to give you something to think about, especially with regards to religion.

                  Remember, religion was made by man- because government and religious leaders believed mankind MUST answer to a higher authority otherwise there would be chaos.

                  Meaning, YOU can't control your own life and must be told how to live and what to think?

                  Utter nonsense in reality.

                  1. Smireles profile image83
                    Smirelesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    There have always been power hungry individuals who know what is best for the rest of the world. Always have been and always will be. We see quite a few of them in our government today.

                    I am well versed in scripture as well as in the history of the time of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did teach life and he certainly did not agree with the religious leaders of the day. However, he did not try to destroy the law of Moses. He was not even against the law of Moses.

                    I have to disagree with you about who Jesus Christ was. He was God manifested in the flesh. He died and rose from the dead. You see, I am a true believer. As I said earlier, my faith has served me well and I have no doubts.

                2. getitrite profile image81
                  getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I was a believer once.  And I was told by my clergy that atheist were just like Eve, in the Garden of Eden--being tricked by Satan. 

                  I think it's admirable if YOU really don't judge that way.
                   
                  It is a choice...you chose one way, I chose another. 
                  I respect your choice.  I just don't agree with the Philosphy(Christianity) that you have chosen.

            2. Make  Money profile image71
              Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You have been brainwashed dear.  You need to deprogram.  Evolution is not truth.  A theory is not a truth.  The definition of theory is "a belief that can guide behavior".

              Exactly what I have been saying.  Your behavior is guided by your belief in evolution or as an atheist.

              But so is mine as a Christian.  The point that I am making, which is not a theory but the truth is that we are all guided by our belief.   

              Being an atheist or believing in the theory of evolution are not neutral positions.  You have to decide to believe that on your own accord.  Thus your belief system effects your thinking just the same way anyone else's belief system does.

              As an atheist your life is not unhindered.  Strange as it seems your atheist belief system is obviously effecting your life to the point of going out of your way to have this conversation.  Now note that with the majority of discussions between atheists and believers it is generally the atheists that are on the offensive while believers are defending, like this and many other threads.  Can you not see how strange and obsessive that is?  I mean why bother worrying about what anyone else believes?

              1. 0
                Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Again you miss the point.  Missing the point seems to be a recurring theme for you right now.  lol

                Atheism does not form the bedrock in which to build a belief system upon like christianity does. Christianity has evolved a set of core beliefs (or superstitions as most non-believers would call them) to base their whole pathetic lives around. Atheism has no such core belief system. Atheists do not surrender themselves meekly to nonsensical superstitions and pie-in-the-sky belief systems. Much of what christianity is about, is foundered on the 'fear principle' - if you do not believe then something truly awful will happen (You go to hell) The more robustly you can cling to your beliefs the greater your confidence will be in repelling your fears. These fears are not real of course, they are purely imaginary... they have been stoked deep inside you from the day you became a believer. Much of what you believe is an elaborate construction to both heighten your fears (through paraniod religious doctrine) and a placation of your fears (God is here to save you) than any real, living breathing, fear.

                But the one big question here is why have you bought into it? The price you paid for your ticket is a high one, it's the price of your life.

                I think i have the answer tho! Clearly, when neural networks were being formed in your brain at an early age, your 'God network' was probably just that little bit more developed than most. As to why that was, who cares... maybe you're from a fervently religious family. Your 'God network' inside your brain is now pretty much set. Even tho we all possess malleable brains, you look a little long in the tooth (based on your picture) to have any real hope of becoming anything different to what you currently are. You will die an old man with your God network still firmly rooted within your brain.

        2. 0
          sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          How old are you sweetie?

        3. paulhvv profile image62
          paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with you, the first bit anyway, However I believe in a God that lives and Guides me through His Holy Spirit. So I don't just use the bible as my guide,following a set pattern of rules and regulations, but listen to my conscience and try to be obedient to my convictions. I am not perfect as non of us are and who knows maybe only when we pass from this world will we be. So why do I do this? Because I choose to. We all have freedom of will and can do what we want to, listen to whom we will and come up with our own type of religion should we choose.
          We all have different personalities built up with different characteristics, such as envy,hatred,kindness and love, to name but a few. So I have a hard look at myself and ask myself what type of person do I want to be? I take the bad and the good and make a decision. Yes my decision can contradict my natural ways, but with time I have found with God at my side I have or am not liking the so called bad personality traits. And hence I wish to turn from them and be so called good.
          So point being my freedom of will is still mine because I choose.

    4. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:RkC … mp;ct=clnk



      Nobel Laureates and scientists who believe in God

      by Todd Hebert

      Nobelists.net has a free e-book called “50 Nobel Laureates and Other Great Scientists Who Believe in God.” Not a very catchy title, but an interesting little 146 page read.

      The book is comprised mostly of quotes from scientists, writers and philosophers. The purpose of the book, from the author’s introduction: “I believe that this book will inspire believers, that it will give hope to seekers and that it will challenge those who think that religion and contemporary science are in an insurmountable conflict.”

      Here is a sampling of some the more interesting quotes from the e-book:

          * “When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!”
            George Wald- Nobel Laureate in medicine and physiology

          * To the question, “Many prominent scientists – including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck – have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?”
            Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.”
            Christian Anfinsen- Nobel Laureate in chemistry

          * To the Lord, whom I worship and thank,
            That governs the heavens with His eyelid
            To Him I return tired, but full of living.”
            Galileo- founder of experimental physics

          * In the beginning of his Meditations (1641) Descartes wrote:
            “I have always been of the opinion that the two questions respecting God and the Soul were the chief of those that ought to be determined by help of Philosophy rather than of
            Theology; for although to us, the faithful, it be sufficient to hold as matters of faith, that the human soul does not perish with the body, and that God exists, it yet assuredly seems impossible ever to persuade infidels of the reality of any religion, or almost even any moral virtue, unless, first of all, those two things be proved to them by natural reason. And since in this life there are frequently greater rewards held out to vice than to virtue, few would prefer the right to the useful, if they were restrained neither by the fear of God nor the expectation of another life.”
            Rene Descartes- founder of Analytical Geometry and modern philosophy

          * “The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for
            the existence of God.”
            Charles Darwin- founder of the Theory of Evolution

          * “In good philosophy, the word cause ought to be reserved to the single Divine impulse that has formed the universe.”
            Louis Pasteur- founder of microbiology and immunology

          * “Tonight I was in a meditative mood. I was absorbed in the contemplation of nature; I admired the immensity, the movements, the harmony of those infinite globes.
            I admired still more the Intelligence which directs these vast forces. I said to myself: ‘One must be blind not to be dazzled by this spectacle; one must be stupid not to recognize the Author of it; one must be mad not to worship Him’.”
            Voltaire- French philosopher one of the most influential thinkers of the Enlightenment

          * You accept the historical Jesus?
            - Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
            Albert Einstein, from an interview with the Saturday Evening Post

      I guess for you all these great minds are not individual thinkers , have no self awareness and definitely no mind.

    5. topgunjager profile image60
      topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      being religious is being a mindless robot that will do and believe anythinig it was told that's why they don't like non believer's, they use their brains too much instead of leaving things to chance=)

      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          * “When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!”
              George Wald- Nobel Laureate in medicine and physiology

            * To the question, “Many prominent scientists – including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck – have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?”
              Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.”
              Christian Anfinsen- Nobel Laureate in chemistry

            * To the Lord, whom I worship and thank,
              That governs the heavens with His eyelid
              To Him I return tired, but full of living.”
              Galileo- founder of experimental physics

            * In the beginning of his Meditations (1641) Descartes wrote:
              “I have always been of the opinion that the two questions respecting God and the Soul were the chief of those that ought to be determined by help of Philosophy rather than of
              Theology; for although to us, the faithful, it be sufficient to hold as matters of faith, that the human soul does not perish with the body, and that God exists, it yet assuredly seems impossible ever to persuade infidels of the reality of any religion, or almost even any moral virtue, unless, first of all, those two things be proved to them by natural reason. And since in this life there are frequently greater rewards held out to vice than to virtue, few would prefer the right to the useful, if they were restrained neither by the fear of God nor the expectation of another life.”
              Rene Descartes- founder of Analytical Geometry and modern philosophy

            * “The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for
              the existence of God.”
              Charles Darwin- founder of the Theory of Evolution

            * “In good philosophy, the word cause ought to be reserved to the single Divine impulse that has formed the universe.”
              Louis Pasteur- founder of microbiology and immunology

            * “Tonight I was in a meditative mood. I was absorbed in the contemplation of nature; I admired the immensity, the movements, the harmony of those infinite globes.
              I admired still more the Intelligence which directs these vast forces. I said to myself: ‘One must be blind not to be dazzled by this spectacle; one must be stupid not to recognize the Author of it; one must be mad not to worship Him’.”
              Voltaire- French philosopher one of the most influential thinkers of the Enlightenment

            * You accept the historical Jesus?
              - Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
              Albert Einstein, from an interview with the Saturday Evening Post

        These people are acknowledged brains and and are famous for their great minds and not for their stupidity or foolish beliefs.

        1. topgunjager profile image60
          topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          nobody's perfect=)

          1. mohitmisra profile image60
            mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Thats is not the point here, the point is that there have been many great minds who do believe in a higher force and see the intelligence of the universe as proof of that.
            Many of these great minds have been scientists so plaese leave
            science and logic out of the picture when trying to discredit believers.
            They are not stupid people with a blind faith and no self awareness.
            How does a religious person contradict having a mind?
            What a sad question.

            1. topgunjager profile image60
              topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              and there are even more unrecognized greater minds that don't belive in stuff like that because they don;t mix logic with fantasies=)

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                LOGIC=  * “Tonight I was in a meditative mood. I was absorbed in the contemplation of nature; I admired the immensity, the movements, the harmony of those infinite globes.
                      I admired still more the Intelligence which directs these vast forces. I said to myself: ‘One must be blind not to be dazzled by this spectacle; one must be stupid not to recognize the Author of it; one must be mad not to worship Him’.”
                      Voltaire- French philosopher one of the most influential thinkers of the Enlightenment
                = LOGIC

                "Either you can see the magic,
                Or your life is indeed tragic. " smile

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol

                  You have no logic! You believe you are a chosen prophet! Ignorance!

              2. topgunjager profile image60
                topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this


                I don't believe in the virgin birth, the talking snake, tha living inside a whale, the turning water into wine, you're right, my people are stupid=)

                1. mohitmisra profile image60
                  mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  The above are really not important what is important is that there is a supreme entity and we can make contact with it, become it- God.
                  That is the message of the prophets.

                  Look at the precision and intelligence all around you, it is simply mind blowing.

                2. paulhvv profile image62
                  paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi topgunjager.
                  Believe what you will, it is your choice.
                  I would like to ask you about life though. How are we possibly here? Are we and all beings on earth not some form of phenomenon? How does it all knit together. How was it started.
                  If I can believe that we exist why can't God?

                  1. topgunjager profile image60
                    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    there you go, how are we possibly here? so you're only answer is because there is a god, because that's the only possibility right? how can you claim such things that nobody can prove? i have a suggestion for you, instead of preaching about god all the time, why don't you help the needy people, help feed the hungry children in the world and help make someone's unfortunate life better, if there is a God and he's the "epitome of good" i'm sure he wouldn't mind if you didn't worship him so much and start showing real care for all his children, i'm sure if there is a god he didn't put us here with the main purpose of giving him attention and sucking up to him. your preaching will never be as loud as people's acts of kindness so if you truly believe that being good is the only way, then why don't you try doing good things instead of preaching good things=)

            2. Make  Money profile image71
              Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Excellent post mohitmisra.

              It seems even Charles Darwin believed in God at least at one point in his life.

              I love this Mo.  You single handedly showed how stupid and idiotic marinealways24's question is.  Thanks

              Case closed.  Full stop. lol

              1. topgunjager profile image60
                topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                thank you for proving things that matters, you should send your words of wisdom to africa, maybe it will rain food and clothes over there=)

              2. paulhvv profile image62
                paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I heard that Darwin tried to renounce his work on his deathbed. How true that is, I have not idea. How can anybody believe His theory without proof is anybodies guess. I believe; because God is active in my life in that He teaches, rebukes and shows me how to live my life and that is all the proof I need. Something real not just a theory.

                1. topgunjager profile image60
                  topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  i prayed to god and humpty dumpty last night and got the same results, i wonder how that happened=)

                2. Make  Money profile image71
                  Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  For sure Paul, it is very rational to believe in God.

                  Yeah I've read that Darwin became a Christian before he died.  But we'd never convince an 'orthodox believing atheist' of that. lol

                  Stop making that devil symbol topgunjager and say aw.  Okay you can put your tongue back in now, you don't look infected. lol

                  1. topgunjager profile image60
                    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    afraid i can't say the same thing about your face=) just kidding, god bless you=)

                  2. marinealways24 profile image61
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    You silly religious sheep. I would like you to quote any of the great minds you or mohit mentioned saying that they believe the bible. You and him are purposely trying to confuse the 2.

                    A logical mind can believe in a creator when it can't be proven wrong. A logical mind will "not" believe your silly book of belief. The bible contradicts logic. No matter the qualifications, if a person believes the bible, their faith is based on contradictions and simple psychology. A person can have a logical mind and ideas in 1 area and be completely assumptive in others in search of belief.

              3. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Welcome smile
                I am a science graduate and studied Spherical Trigonometry and the Celestial sphere as a Navigating Officer in the Merchant Navy, I am not against science. smile

                "One needs to be in a similar vibration to understand me or else he will call me a fool" Guru Nanak

                1. prettydarkhorse profile image63
                  prettydarkhorseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Guru Nanak???

                  1. mohitmisra profile image60
                    mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    The Sikh, poet/prophet. smile

              4. marinealways24 profile image61
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Darwin believed in a creator or believed the bible? There is a huge difference. Your simple mind does not understand this.

            3. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You think you have something here? How many said they believe the bible word for word? You are reaching. Many can still be open to creation when it can't be proven wrong. No logical sane mind is open to the bible when it is full of contradictions and childish psychology to capture believers. If any of the people you mentioned do believe the bible, they are as silly as you are prophet.

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Are we talking of the Holy Bible only or are we talking about god?
                The Bible is full of parables and has great depth, don't take many things literately as you will miss out on the meaning.

                What you need to do is meditate and gain some self awareness then you will not ask people what faith you belong to or make stupid posts like this one.

                The mystics way is contradictions as ying and yang, male and female both exist, but one needs to be spiritually evolved to understand this.

                Yo are the silly person, very silly person smile
                Is it not possible for you to impart some knowledge , have an intelligent debate or all you can do is resort to this childish banter.

                1. topgunjager profile image60
                  topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  how can you even say that knowing the crap that you preach? why would you judge me because i don't agree  with and see what you're saying? i'm silly? how can you expect people to respect you talking the way you talk, you can't even behave like a decent human being when all i did was ask you questions? it's not my fault you have crap answers my friend, maybe you should relearn who you are mr. bliss=)

                  1. mohitmisra profile image60
                    mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I am answering your questions and not being rude, lets just debate and stop this name calling bull shit.Try writing a book on religious philosophy before calling me names.
                    What is crap for you and beyond your understanding is not for me.
                    I wrote in response to marineallways and not you, so take a chill pill.

        2. paulhvv profile image62
          paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Good to hear from you. Enjoyed reading your comment.

    6. 0
      reeltaulkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      good question.....take a survey and only ask religious people, I would love to read their feedback.

    7. cheaptrick profile image64
      cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      One of the books found in the Dead Sea scrolls,Nag Hammadi,which have been authenticated is the book of Mary Magdalen.In it she asks Christ this question"Lord,I had a vision,did it come from my Spirit or my Soul?"(this question indicates a difference between Spirit and Soul)Christs reply was"You have your Spirit and you have your Soul,between the two is your mind,there lies the Treasure".Clearly,a true Christian must use the engine of the mind to walk the"narrow path",this engine of the mind is directed by free will...

      1. tantrum profile image61
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well that's an original  cheaptrick  !

        1. cheaptrick profile image64
          cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Research it.You will find there is nothing original about it.These are exact quotes.So sad that you rush to judgment mindlessly.look inside your self,or are you afraid?

      2. Make  Money profile image71
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Very cool answer cheaptrick.

  2. 0
    Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago

    I'm religious and I don't contradict having a mind so I won't be of any use to you, Marine big_smile

    1. 0
      A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What happened to your dress? big_smile It made me feel all funny inside big_smile big_smile

    2. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, plus you have nice legs! lol

      1. 0
        Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        <------Oh I thought they were a little hairy lol

  3. Jonathan Janco profile image80
    Jonathan Jancoposted 7 years ago

    Even the mind of a follower is still a mind. Marine, you should bear in mind that not everyone is as free-spirited and curious as you are. If I were you, I'd be grateful to have the kind of mind you have.

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, they are still a mind. Just a contradiction to an individual mind. I am greateful to all except those who are content with not realizing they have a mind.

  4. getitrite profile image81
    getitriteposted 7 years ago

    It's probably the Ego Defense Mechanism of denial.

    An intelligent person, who is religious, would have to be in denial about reality.

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Or contradict logic with faith and interpretation.

      1. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        But one would have to be in denial that they are, in fact, contradicting logic.

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree.

  5. Valerie F profile image59
    Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

    Curious, free-spirited, religious, and I have a mind. If you're trying to prove some theory that religious people don't have minds of their own, I'm sorry I can't help you.

    Well, actually, no I'm not. wink

  6. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    General question for everyone: When you say 'religious' do you mean religious (church goer, bible follower), or just a believer in God?

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Only speaking for myself, religious to me is a grouped belief of God or a God.

      1. Stimp profile image80
        Stimpposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Define "God".  Some define "God" as anything you perceive to be higher than yourself or EVEN within yourself....it could be the group of people for which you are seeking support or a higher being or the desk in the corner or even the Hub Forums.  It is whatever you believe in for support.  If you believe that you have it within yourself to be "your own being" or "your own God." Fabulous.  Then, what's the issue?  I don't get it.  I don't think believing in some THING negates logical thinking necessarily.

        1. Stimp profile image80
          Stimpposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I believe for instance that I have the power to put a mullet on my dog for Halloween and all is good with the world smile

        2. 0
          Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Can you also hear your dogs thoughts? God allegedly can.

          Do you know what your dog dreams? God allegedly knows.

          So, believing in some THING - presumably you mean a God thing - does indeed negate a logical thinking. Logical thinking would suggest that God does not know what your dog thinks or dreams. Logical thinking would also call into question the very existence of God. Yet you want to believe in God AND possess a logical mind? That's an oxymoron my friend.

        3. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Some go too far with belief. Some rely on God rather than medicine to heal their children. A lot of those children die for the parents ridiculous faith. The parents use faith over logic.

  7. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    I should have said 'higher power' ... that's what I meant. Because I think it makes a difference to the answer to the OP's question, whether you talk about religion or just a belief in a higher being, having one doesnt mean you have the other.

  8. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    There's a difference in someone who blindly follows religion; does what the Bible tells them because thats what the Bible tells them to do, and someone who has disregarded religion, thought about what they believe, doesn't believe in heaven and hell but still believes there is some kind of higher being.

    I know people who are atheists but are ridiculously stupid, only believe it because their parents do or watever and have no kind of mind at all. And I know religious people (and non-religious believers) who don't bring God into their arguments (unless it's an argument about God) and can have sensible logical debates without just saying 'god did it' and have reasons for doing what they do other than just 'it's what it says in the bible.'


    P.S. Nice pic Max!

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      All that follow religion are blind followers. They contradict being born an individual and have no self awareness to see this because of their faith driven blindness. There is no logic in the bibles weak, pathetic, contradictory, emotional childish government god.

      Want to know how I really feel?

      1. jenblacksheep profile image84
        jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That's what I was saying. Religious people are followers. But those that have found their own path to God (or a higher being) are not necessarily blind followers. Many people who believe in God do not follow the Bible (or a similar religious text). I have respect for someone who has questioned their beliefs, thought about why they believe what they do, and really considered whether it is the right path for them ... (whether they are a believer or not). Regardless of whether I ultimately think they are right or not.

        1. 0
          Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I like your name smile

        2. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Where does the name "God" come from? Religious teachings. How does any believer that doesn't believe in religion or the bible still term a creator God when the name was developed from religion? The term God is taught, not learned.

          1. jenblacksheep profile image84
            jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That's why I put 'higher being' in brackets. A lot of people don't believe in the God of the Bible, but do believe in some kind of higher being. I was just calling it God for simplification.

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Ty for explaining, I understand you now. Because of the religious ties to "God", I think the term God is very confusing for a non believer to use when they don't believe the bible and still believe in a creator or creators. If I said that I believe in a God, people would automatically assume that I am a religious biblical believer. If I said I believe in the possibility of a creator/creators or "higer being" as you termed it, I think this would limit confusion.

  9. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Religion itself is nothing more than a business. It has many return customers.

    Religious leaders have been around for centuries and for centuries those leaders have made a mess of the world.

    Those who follow a religion, somewhat close, like church goer, you can simply make the break without harm.

    Those who study religion, inside and out, make their life from and around religion. The doctrines are efforted forward in one's life. One has to focus extremely hard to stay within doctrine. These people are the most dangerous, because their beliefs can kill someone they love dearly.

    There are WARS being fought because religious text has caused attacks on other country's soil. Thousands of people had to die, so a religious lead regime can tell us right from wrong.

    Religion tells you that you put GOD first. Life dictates that YOU must put SELF first.

    It is human nature to put SELF first and foremost. If you put anything ahead of your self-responsibility to yourself, then you are killing yourself.

    No one is to give up control over their own life- NOT to government and certainly not to religion.

    For those who belief in a higher power or being. Stop and think for a second- religion has told you that you have your own personal 'god'. And, he'll be your savior in the end.

    How ever, I would like to point out that your belief is no different than that of a believer. A higher power is the so-called 'god'. There isn't a difference.

    You want to see a higher being- take full control of your entire life. Let go of any mystical affiliations you have and live your life based on your own drive, determination and ability to adapt.

    You're conscience and what you've learned for morals will guide your direction. Remember, a moral right is to be beneficial to society or others. Create your own purpose and put effort and focus into building that into your dream life.

    Don't wait for an eternal life that will never come.

    1. paulhvv profile image62
      paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Your will be done.

  10. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I find that Faith in God is beneficial separated from Religion. Being religious is not the same thing as having faith.

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes it is. It takes faith to believe in a religion.

  11. 0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    Hey! I want to be an atheist! Because it's all about me! I'm the God of my world! I also want to be gay and abort children because who cares! I want to use women and throw them away because,hey, there's no morals! This sounds so enlightened, I can't wait!WOOHOO!

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Ignorant emotional reaction to protect faith.

      1. Evolution Guy profile image60
        Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't get this -. Wait a minute !

        Is he saying that Christian men do not use women and throw them away because they have morals.

        It is not possible to have any morals without beleebing in jeebus.

        Being gay is wrong and no real Christians are gay.

        Abortion is wrong and a christian woman would never have an abortion.

        Why is it not possible to have morals unless you am skeered 'a' jeebus?

  12. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    I guess I've said this before and I'm going to say it again.

    My personal beliefs are not formed based on any religion of any kind. My beliefs are solely based on my life's research, science and philosophy.

    I have NO religious affiliations whatsoever.

    I reject all religions as deceitful liars. Those who cannot see through the hoax, only perpetuates it's existence, which shouldn't be to begin with.

    Religion has no basis for existence. It's purely unsubstantiated stories about centuries past. It reads like a history book, with a little bit of mythology mixed in.

    Since religion is man-made. Why it was conceived? Is what most people avoid talking about it. Why? Because it's outrageous and factual history.

    Why was 'religion' conceived? Those in power, were of alike minds, and believed that mankind had to answer to a higher power, otherwise there would be chaos. Thus, religion was born.

  13. Make  Money profile image71
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Aw that's just a man made belief Cagsil. lol

  14. ediggity profile image59
    ediggityposted 7 years ago

    I have a mind.  I can choose to think independently, and make all the selfish choices I want.  However, instead I choose to have faith in GOD, and let GOD guide me in the choices I make. What is the big difference in choices between the religious and non religious besides having faith?  What are some choices that religious people make that are so different from non-believers?

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You think it's selfish to have an individual mind and belief? lol Thanks, you just described everything in that one sentence.

      Religious rely on a belief that is already written limiting their mind from being open and considering alternatives or debate. From debate comes logic. I wouldn't expect you to understand this. Afterall, you believe it is selfish to have individual thoughts.

      1. ediggity profile image59
        ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, if you make a choice for yourself it is selfish.  What else do you call being an individual? (Not a team player)

        So, because I believe in the BIBLE you think I can't consider other alternatives, or debate about them?  LOL! I've studied many alternatives before I even became a believer, and didn't believe them.  Everyone believes in something, so your point is frivolous.  Just because one believes in something different, doesn't mean the other person can't consider or debate an alternative.  That's like saying an atheist can't consider or debate Christianity.  Anyone can study Christianity, and not believe it.  However, many don't, and just choose not to believe.  I still see no significant difference in choices, besides belief.  What one can do, and what one will/choose to do are completely different.

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Do you debate your minister when he is teaching you belief? Why do you need someone or something to teach you what to believe? Sounds limited to me. What makes you believe the bible? Is your belief absolute? If your belief is absolute, why do you search to debate your belief. If your belief isn't absolute, how do you claim to believe the bible as truth? How do you claim a logical mind when your belief contradicts logic?

          1. ediggity profile image59
            ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            To clarify your original question Maximus wrote,
            "Can those who profess religious belief also have a mind that can think independently of those religious beliefs."
            and you agreed.

            The answer to your original question is yes, and answered with my posts above.

            No, I don't debate with my minister while he is preaching.  That would be rude.  That would be like sitting in a college class debating with the professor while they were teaching. 

            Why do you need someone to teach you what to believe?  Did you seriously ask that question?  Did you go to school at all?  Did your teachers/parents teach you things, and in turn did you believe them?  Or, did you raise yourself, and teach yourself everything you needed to know?

            Faith makes me believe in the BIBLE.  If you don't believe, why do you focus so much time on religion?

            Lastly, all of your philosophies on life are subjective to interpretation.  They are not logical.  They are subjective to interpretation.  They are based off of no concrete non-circular evidence or proof.  They are your opinions.  My belief is based off of faith.

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I would actually respond with and intelligent comment, but you are undeserving. You make statements with no bearing to protect your ridiculous faith. The only thing you said that makes sense is that your belief is based off of faith. You realize your belief has no logic without faith, so you fill in the gaps. My ideas don't require faith, only logic. There is no proof in your government faith except that you are a blind sheep.

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Please read the logic of great minds in the post I have just posted.Give us some knowledge rather than just repeating over and over again you need to have self awareness, have a mind , work for the government blah blah blah.

                Or be honest and admit that you have never had any sort of spiritual experience and have absolutely no knowledge of spirituality or god.

              2. ediggity profile image59
                ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I am sorry I am so undeserving of your "intelligent" comments. LOL! Would one of those comments be separatist, sheep, or prophet?  LOL!I don't think you even know what your ideas are.  You make them up along the way.  Just because you make up a term for something on Hubpages, doesn't make it an accepted expression in society. LOL! You are still searching for something.  My search is over.  There is no proof in your "philosophy" either.  Again, subject to interpretation with no proof to support your claims.  Keep making things up, and convincing yourself you are right.  The BIBLE isn't going anywhere no matter who, or how much anyone dislikes it, or it's teachings.  I hope you seriously continue to study, beyond philosophy, and compare all things relative.

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  You are finally right on one thing. I do make my ideas and beliefs up along the way while not contradicting myself. This is logic and evolution. If I am wrong, why haven't people proved me wrong? All you have is your rubbish faith. Where are my contradictions? List them. I support all of my claims. Yours is the one based on magical faith to fill the gaps of logic so your dependent mind has something to belief. What things have I been making up? You go to hell for lying. Did you forget to read that part in your belief book?

                  1. ediggity profile image59
                    ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Wow, really well thought out reply.  Honestly, I expected more. LOL!  As long as no one proved you wrong yet you must be right. It's your world man, we're just living in it. LOL!

  15. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    A closed mind hinders itself regardless of what it already holds

    1. Cagsil profile image78
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And, a narrow-tunnelled mind hindered by religious belief based on a higher power mystical entity as a guide for life is ignorant to the understanding of life itself.

      If you have any kind of religious belief whatsoever, you prove you don't understand life or what's real.

      A closed mind isn't trapped in a narrow view, it is simply closed to the idea of anything outside reality. Which actually makes sense.

      An open-mind, like mine- where anything is possible? God does not exist. There is no substance for belief. An open-minded person is open to the possibilities of life, but only as far as facts are evident. To take a 'leap of faith' isn't in your nature to begin with.

      When evidence presents itself and shows you the reality, then you can form a solid foundation for a belief.

      When no evidence is found, then belief foundation can not be truly formed, because you will always have a inner-part of you that doesn't believe, therefore your belief isn't 100% and never can be, because you don't have all the facts, as according to reality.

      Reality exists. It exists freely independent of thoughts, desires, will, or wishes. Reality is ALL knowable.

    2. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      So does one in absolute belief.

  16. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    In your open mind everything is possible except ...
       when exceptions are present then anything is not possible.

  17. thisisoli profile image63
    thisisoliposted 7 years ago

    There are plenty of religious people who are intelligent, but many intelligent people have been insane.

    It is logic that defies religion, more than intelligence.

    Personally I think religion has both given and taken a lot from humanity.  While I do not believe in any God, I do not presume to tell others what they should think.

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you. I also don't like to tell others what to think. I simply tell them to think! A hard task for the belief dependent minds. They aren't used to thinking when their belief controls their thinking.

  18. thisisoli profile image63
    thisisoliposted 7 years ago

    I should possibly clarify, that when I say religion has taken a lot, I refer to progress of mankind scientifically, loss of life in countless wars, and so on.

    When I say it has given a lot I relate to works of art, buildings that are made for more than financial gain, and different cultures. (Despite government attempts at 'multiculturalism' I think it is a great thing for each country to have a unique culture, which people may visit, and absorb in wonder)

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You make good comments. How much has religious belief prevented evolution of minds? How can a mind evolve when limited to a book of belief? This is a contradiction to a growing mind. It limits belief within a book. Religion has caused far more destruction than good. Religion brings separatism, not unity. Along with contradicting the mind, they contradict unity.

      1. 0
        Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        yes, that's all well and good.

        So, what do you do about it? At what point does your argument evolve beyond your own circular belief system?  Even atheist / non-believers are just as guilty in peddling their own circular beliefs as christians. But as atheists / non-believers you have a responsibility to evolve your arguments to a higher level, which is something the faith-heads cannot do. That alone makes you a more worthwhile human being.

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Your point is well taken. Always great thoughts behind your comments.

          I considered your point before. If I raised arguements just to state my belief and critisize believers, I would be the same as their trapped minds. I do have hidden motives at times when I critisize the believer. I want to get an emotional reaction to expose how their beliefs are locked in with their emotions. Emotions in belief are also a contradiction to logic I believe.

  19. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Is that the head of the nail? The believer defies logic for faith in an absolute belief giving their belief control rather than a logical person that controls belief.

    Does that sum it up? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

    1. tantrum profile image61
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Logical persons don't have to control belief. They don't believe.
      There's no believe to control.

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The logical still have to control belief and have self awareness. Believer or non believes in something. Even a belief or non belief of absolutes requires a belief. I think belief is granted control over logic when belief is considered absolute.

        1. tantrum profile image61
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The logical self awareness doesn't have anything to do with beliefs.
          It has to do with one self and what surrounds it.Accepting it or not. That's all.
          non believing in absolutes, or believing in them, doesn't
          require anything more than  self awareness, and what is our interaction with what surrounds us. Nothing to do with beliefs.
          Absolutes or not,are not religions.Are different ways of seeing life.
          Religious people have a mind just like you. The difference is the way they use it, as I said before.
          No contradiction in there.
          We are all human beings.

          1. marinealways24 profile image61
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            In response to the last part, how unlimited can belief and thought be when limited to a single book? A contradiction to a free mind. Is it logical to limit the mind to a belief book?

  20. jenblacksheep profile image84
    jenblacksheepposted 7 years ago

    Thanx big_smile

  21. 0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    De Nada wink

  22. Make  Money profile image71
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    See, I told you. lol 

    1. aguasilver profile image88
      aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Amen

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Sheep

        1. Evolution Guy profile image60
          Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          This one is more a Ram, if you catch my drift. wink LIkes it rough..........

          1. marinealways24 profile image61
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            lol Silly animals!

  23. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    I find it amusing that religious believers get mad when being called sheep, chimps, or other animals. They choose to have a blind belief like sheep "which are animals" and then get mad when called an animal. Wasn't it free will to become a sheep? lol

  24. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Is any belief that is emotionally driven or believed come from a logical mind? I don't believe so. I think emotions contradict logic. Anyone feel free to correct me.

    1. Cagsil profile image78
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Some emotions are completely unpredictable. Some emotions happen because something else happened. Example: if you are shot, you begin to go into shock(if its your first time being shot) and you feel nothing. Once the shock wears off- you begin feeling a burning sensation, which could make you cry or scream out in pain.

      You can apply logic to WHY? someone has expressed the emotion. Each emotion has a unique feeling, which logic can not rationalize and never be required to be understood, any further than we(society) have.

  25. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Hey marine,

    True enough. If you're going to follow a religion or form your own beliefs based on non-existent facts, you go against your life.

    If you form a belief system based on lie, and then you perpetuate that lie, that doesn't make it fact. It is still a lie.

    Religion is man-made, based on a belief that mankind requires to answer to a higher authority otherwise there would be chaos.

    This 'belief' is perceived by all religious leaders and leaders of government.

    The TRUTH of the matter is that you have a mind that creates thoughts, which most of the time turns into actions. You also have a conscience to determine right from wrong. You can give your life it's own purpose. You can define your own life's existence, however you want.

    Religion is stopping you from getting what you want out of your life- true control over your life.

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol What the hell are you talking about? How is religion stopping me when i'm not religious?

      1. Cagsil profile image78
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I was agreeing with you on your position, but also saying something else to believers.

        It was easier to put it in one post instead of making two.

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Alright, Ty for explaining. I agreed until I thought you called me religious. My bad. lol

  26. 0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Hey! Somebody say something about sheep?

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Sheep are needed to run a government.


      That is my absolute belief.

    2. paulhvv profile image62
      paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      baa ram you lol

      1. paulhvv profile image62
        paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hope you saw the movie babe I think.

  27. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Anyone who practices any form of religion is irresponsible to themselves.

    To form a belief on a mystical realm that doesn't exist in reality, isn't a solid foundation for a belief. It shows irrational thought process, which is detrimental to your life.

    If you think you understand- Life and you have formed your belief in 'god', then you are lying to yourself about what is real.

    Life's nature isn't for you to be subjected to an external authority for guidance. Why not? Because, you have a conscience and can choose your own right and wrong.

    Between Government and Religious leaders, BOTH agree that the human race MUST answer to a 'higher power' authority otherwise there would be chaos. Thus, why we have laws and religion exists.

    Just in case you want the cliff notes version- Government and Religious Leaders agreed long ago to work together to control the people of society, because people couldn't be trusted to the morally right thing. They STILL don't trust you!

    That's what's happening, just in case you were wondering.

    1. aguasilver profile image88
      aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Actually I recall that I was much more irresponsible to myself (and others) when I was a humanist, especially when I was in my Ayn Rand period.

      You see faith as a mystical realm that doesn't exist in reality, but anybody who has had a spiritual encounter with the Holy Spirit knows that to be a false assumption. Encounters with God are VERY real.

      You must choose to avoid them.

      "If you think you understand- Life and you have formed your belief in 'god', then you are lying to yourself about what is real." - Conjecture and though I can respect your opinion, that's all it is, an opinion.

      "Life's nature isn't for you to be subjected to an external authority for guidance. Why not? Because, you have a conscience and can choose your own right and wrong."

      Again, when I chose NOT to be subjected to an external authority for guidance, during my humanist period, my conscience was kinda selective and although I could choose from right or wrong, I normally chose wrong without any concern for the consequences. I would say that those I meet are far better of when I have chosen (ultimately and finally) to be submitted to Christ, rather than 'free to choose'

      "Between Government and Religious leaders, BOTH agree that the human race MUST answer to a 'higher power' authority otherwise there would be chaos. Thus, why we have laws and religion exists."

      ...and you prefer chaos?

      "Just in case you want the cliff notes version- Government and Religious Leaders agreed long ago to work together to control the people of society, because people couldn't be trusted to the morally right thing. They STILL don't trust you!"

      ...and looking in the news, they are right not to. You may be a thoroughly trustworthy nice chap, but unfortunately there are many who are not, and I've been one of them before I came to faith.

      You seem to think that you can change a sick and wretched world full of morally bankrupt people into some nirvana by applying free thinking, well I wish you were right, but experience and evidence proves you wrong to me.

  28. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    You can't believe what is attainable by human standards...yet you're willing to put your life in the hands of someone that doesn't exist in reality.

    Faith should be placed in ONESELF to be self-responsible for their thoughts and actions.

    To put faith in something you supposedly believe exists, is completely irrational and defeats the meaning of life.

    I seem like a nice chap? First off, I'm not a twenty something immature kid.

    You want to throw your life away on religion. I can not stop you.

    As for my statements- if you think that you understand Life- and you still form a belief in 'god', then you are lying to yourself- is the truest damn statement I've ever uttered on these forums.

    If you believe in a 'god' of some sort, then you are lying to yourself about what you know about life.

    Because LIFE doesn't have anything to do with religion whatsoever. Absolutely NOTHING!

    (1) You have a consciousness that gives you free will.
    (2) You have a conscience to guide yourself.
    (3) You have the nature of man and woman.( you must know what your own nature is before you can be who you are)
    (4) You have reality.(which is all knowable)

    Anything more than that is B.S.

    Religion would have you believe we are nothing special. Because, they want you in soliditude and separated from one another. They want you up in arms. They want you to feel low.

    In actual terms- religion wants to control you.

    Do I want chaos? If more people acted with self-responsibility and honesty, then there would be no chaos.

    In society, every person has been insulted or beaten down by religious others, and it's leaders, made to think that they are no better than dirt and won't be given redeemation until they die.

    I can see how society became like it is and you still want talk about religion isn't harmful to society. More...B.S!

    Please, you can't defend from a weakened position. And, since you are talking religion, you can't fight from a position of strength, because religion is MAN-MADE and nothing more.

  29. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    That's ashame.

    There was hope for you yet.

    Oh well.

  30. pioneer_writer5 profile image60
    pioneer_writer5posted 7 years ago

    I am religious, but I know that religion is not the only platform that seems to have a group mentality. Politics is broken up into parties, and basically regardless of individual beliefs one can only support one party with their vote. There is nationalism the love and allegience to one's country which results on the loss of life for a cause that may not actually be the one given for international involvement. Let's not forget those radical groups like the Klu Klux Klan, Skin Heads, the Black panthers, Mafia all groups that have (mindless?) followers. People choose to become a part of any group that meets their needs. It is not a mindless endeavor. However, sometimes people surrender their right to make certain decisions because they do not wish to be responisible for themselves. It is easier to give blame or credit to someone or something else if life is too complex or if there is a fear of things going wrong. Many times as long as things are working in the favor of the group member that person will be content with where they are.

  31. 0
    Jawa Lunkposted 7 years ago

    The only true contradiction is described by Paul, what I want to do, I don't do, and what I don't want to do I end up doing...this is the battle between the Spirit and our flesh.

    It is a daily struggle to do what is right, what is good, what is noble, what is selfless, what is kind toward others.

    Look at the world around us, it is not natural for people to care for and about others.  They are naturally selfish, hate filled, self centered beings.

    Without God, there is no love, for God is love.

    The scriptures reveal to us that, "Anyone who says he loves God whom he can't see, yet hates his brother whom he can see, is a liar and the truth is not in him."

    Who today loves the un-believers, or their believing brothers, or better yet, their enemies?

    The scriptures tell us "You have heard it said, love your brother and hate your enemies, but I tell you, to love your enemies."

    The only contradiction someone has if they are a believer, is the contradiction trying to live a selfless life, while we are prone to selfishness.

    1. paulhvv profile image62
      paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      and if that is mindless, let it be.

      1. topgunjager profile image60
        topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I feel sorry for all the chinese people out there then because they don't believe in God in china, what a loveless country=(

        1. paulhvv profile image62
          paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Don't mean to burst your bubble, people are dying for there faith their.

          1. paulhvv profile image62
            paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            and there families saddled with the bill of the bullet.

            1. Make  Money profile image71
              Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah Christianity is booming as never before in China, especially underground.  Some say China could eventually have hundreds of millions of Christians, perhaps more than any other country in the world.

              1. topgunjager profile image60
                topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                i feel sorry for their ancestors then, none of them made it in heaven=(

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

                1. paulhvv profile image62
                  paulhvvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  God will let all of mankind know how to get to heaven. That is the job of the Holy spirit to convict man of sin.
                  Why are you on these forums to appease your conscience perhaps? Subconscously asking questions or just been outright rude?
                  We all have our own opinions and each ones should be respected. Your tone is one of demeaning not debating.I will pray for you.

                  1. topgunjager profile image60
                    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    you're right, i'm the rude one not the guy who judges my photo and makes fun of it, and by the way, if you don't have real answers to my questions, don't make me out to be the rude guy, that's rude=)

                  2. topgunjager profile image60
                    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    since you like to pray, you should read my hub about prayers and who cares, i would love to get your honest opinion my friend=)

              2. marinealways24 profile image61
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                This would be called devolution. Know what that means?

  32. francisjdurz profile image60
    francisjdurzposted 7 years ago

    There are no contradictions.

    JUST BELIEVE!

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You could be a preacher!

  33. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    No contradiction just ignore the hate filled Quoran and bible. Nothing else supports there being a god. smile

  34. topgunjager profile image60
    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago

    if there is a god and he's the ultimate good, he wouldn't care if you believe in him or not, but he would care about the good things that you do in this life that will actually ease the suffering of other people=)

  35. topgunjager profile image60
    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago

    can't we all just get along? if you believe in god then no matter what i am led to believe, you're still my brother right=)

  36. topgunjager profile image60
    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago

    hey sneakerrocksolid, it's nice to read your comments about other people, just as jesus would do, well done=)

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      He is the way! lol

    2. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry I don't care what a non-believer says about anyones beliefs because they always attack Christians with same lame crap. Be original! Think up something new, c'mon, I know you can do it!

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hypocrite. Develop self awareness and intelligent thought before you analyze others.

  37. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    How are you today topgun? Thank you for having a mind btw. I always appreciate to see an individual mind not battered by belief.

    1. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How would you know what a mind is?

    2. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How would you know what a mind is?

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Because I analyze it. You don't analyze. You use faith so you don't have to analyze anything.

        1. 0
          sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Really? All those college classes for nothing!

          1. marinealways24 profile image61
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            More assumptions. I disagree with college.

            1. 0
              sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I meant I learned nothing at school. I never assumed you were educated.

              1. marinealways24 profile image61
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                If you are college educated, my point is made. lol College taught you absolutely nothing of individual thought. That may be absolute. You are dependent on others teaching you, not self teaching/learning.

          2. topgunjager profile image60
            topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            why do you even try to spread he god's word man? all you do is mess with people, we don't like you, your own people don;t like you, nobody likes you, when you say anything it only pisses people off, you don't even matter, oh i'm sorry you do matter, you help keep the economy going, you know macdonald's is already open right?

            1. 0
              sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not preaching and never will. You do rant well though. If you say something stupid I will offer you the same in return. Say something intelligent and I'll respond intelligently. C'mon I know you can do it! Really try this time!

            2. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I disagree with you this time. He is "perfect"!

              Why is he perfect? He is a clear example of a sheep mind making assumptive comments and belief exposing his ridiculous faith. He must protect the faith! This is what his dependent limited belief battered sheep mind is trained to do. Now he can correct my lack of punctuation from all of the college classes he has had. lol

              1. 0
                sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No sorry, I'm a fool who has faith,therefore I'm too stupid to have a well developed thought process. You two are just to easy!

    3. topgunjager profile image60
      topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      always good my friend, nice to see you here again=)

  38. topgunjager profile image60
    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago

    hey marine, i kinda feel bad about arguing with sneak, i don't normally stoop down to this level but he was asking for it. let's let him have the last word, he's pathetic enough as he is, we don't really have to prove anything to this guy=)you win sneak, you've accomplished something today, really hope it gets you laid my friend, with that attitude, you really need to get some=)

    1. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Mamacita!

    2. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, he has been boring for a while now. Sheep are only entertaining for so long.

      1. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Would you marry a sheep?

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, because someone is ignorant in one area doesn't mean they aren't a good person or logical in other areas. We are all ignorant in something. Some like yourself refuses correction or learning to protect faith. Some sheep aren't content with being ignorant, so they continue searching for their individual mind. You have no consciousness of an individual mind when you are in a grouped belief. I'm sure this will not get through to you. You will only make more faith based ignorant assumptions.

          1. 0
            sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Look don't start trouble by insulting religion and you won't have to listen to my nonsense. If you put garbage in you'll get garbage out. I'm always sarcastic when I know the conversation is never going to produce anything positive. If you want to discuss religion in a respectful manner let's do it! If you're going to insult those who have beliefs I'll play.

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I am willing to discuss anything as long as you are honest and accept learning when you are wrong on something. It takes a humble person to be honest. I will answer any question or comment that is for progress in learning rather than protection of faith.

              1. marinealways24 profile image61
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I do not insult the religious. The religious insult themselves by living as a contradiction.

                1. 0
                  sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Thats an observation based on a prejudiced point of view.

                  1. marinealways24 profile image61
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    It is true by logic, but you will not accept my explanation. When every person is born with an individual mind, it is a contradiction to having an individual mind when you have the same taught belief as others.

  39. Make  Money profile image71
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Hey marine boot camp must have done a number on your head.  You are arguing just for argument sake with no substance.

    Folks I'm sure if we leave these characters alone marinealways24 and topgunjager will start arguing with themselves. lol

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No substance? How is that?

    2. spiderpam profile image58
      spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol

  40. spiderpam profile image58
    spiderpamposted 7 years ago

    Marine,
    This topic makes no sense. Why so fallacious?

    "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry

    We are all born as individuals. Period. No two people will agree on every single thing, but many people share common core beliefs(killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, lying is wrong, helping the poor is good, loving your neighbor is good etc.) Every sane person has these core values written on their consciences( Jeremiah 31:33)

    It was like minded  ideal that give you the right to post such idiotic things, ever think about that? Free speech.

    You have no basis to account for logic, period. So your words are hollow. Where does your logic come from? To assume because we are Christian so we can’t logic is the ultimate contradiction of life itself. We are living, we are thinking, typing, so we must have the tools to do such things. You want to live like a animal so be it, don’t drag us down to your level of amoral insanity.

    In our world today, can you explain how personality could have ever come from the impersonal, or how order could have ever resulted from chaos of any kind, mentality or otherwise? If everyone thought exactly like you or me alone nothing would ever be achieved, it  is the simple fact that order of some kind is needed truly enjoy being you. This might be over your head.

    God does not show favorites(Romans 2) Humans do. Christianity is exclusive club anyone can join, no special works, or secret knowledge repent, trust in Jesus alone for salvation read His Word. You don’t like Christians, fine. Don’t like us to yourself, no one here deserves churlish, uncivilized, barbaric ranting from you. You obviously need attention, but can’t you find a better way to get it? I guess not or would have found it by now.

    You are not religious, right? Yet you are here. If that not the biggest contradiction I don’t know what is.

    CONCLUSION
    No human is omniscient.
    You are human.
    To claim and any absolute(the God of the Bible isn’t real) is illogical and irrational. You are illogical and irrational. That's how philosophy works.

    I don’t need a response, take some time to think, I mean really think. lol

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol You attempt to define logic when you jump though threads making your ignorant faith based comments without reading previous ideas and post's. Is that logical to you?

      Patrick Henry is wrong, this world and everything in it was founded by the sheppards. You are the supporting sheep.


      Jeremiah is also wrong. Everyone has a different conscience. If a small racist child was raised from birth and taught it was alright to kill people of a different race because they don't matter, the child may never know that racist killing is wrong. This is how taught belief works.


      Free Speech was founded by individuals, not sheepish believers as yourself that oppose religious insults to protect your ignorant emotionally driven faith.


      You are the only animal. You maintain a sheep mind. You refuse to have a human mind.


      Our world is developed from chaos. We learn from debate and argueing, not from all believing the same thing.


      Romans 2 is another contradiction from the bible. God doesn't show favorites huh? How about burning in hell for not believing in him? lol Get out of that one. Jesus and everything in your ridiculous faith based belief is separatism. Why do you think we disagree?


      CONCLUSION:

      You are blissfully ignorant and blinded by sheepish faith. Our society and world is learned in logic and reasoning. Not in faith. Faith is contradiction to logic. Contradictions are a contradiction to logic. The bible is a contradiction to an individual mind. You are a contradiction of a human mind.

      1. spiderpam profile image58
        spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol What a joke! Why did I even bother. You are fatuous! lol

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Point made.

          1. spiderpam profile image58
            spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You're right, in fact I should thank you.
            After reading a few of your post, I’ve now truly understand that you guys really do need mental care after serving. Support our troops! Seriously.

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              My mental care is individual logic, your's is sheepish blind faith. Do as you are told. I was in the Marines for 4 years. You don't think I understand how your sheepish mind operates. Blame it on the devil. This is what you are taught.

            2. Make  Money profile image71
              Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              That is exactly what I have been thinking too Pam.  Post traumatic stress disorder.

              When you figure the contradictions service men and women have had to deal with, especially those that went to Iraq it's hard to see anyone coming back from there without a problem that should be looked into.

              Consider the fact that Bush was telling the nation that it was not a war between Christianity and Islam then Bush said the exact opposite to troops on a carrier.  I seen the video myself with Bush calling it a modern day crusade or something to that effect.  This would explain marinealways24's hatred for religion.  Yet in reality both Christianity and Islam have condemned the war in Iraq.  Pope JPII said God will punish the perpetrators of the war in Iraq.

              Please marinealways24, seek help for your problem before something disastrous happens.  I know you won't think much of it but my prayers are with you my friend.

              1. marinealways24 profile image61
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                lol This is excellent.

                The ignorant sheep with no self awareness of mind now title me with ptsd to discredit me to protect faith! lol


                Old man, figure out the psychology of why your silly childish mind believes the bible. Find your mind before you try to explain someone elses. Keep the faith! lol

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Remember sheep, you are the ones that talk to imaginary gods, not me. Who is really the crazy one? lol

                  1. spiderpam profile image58
                    spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    lol YOU

              2. spiderpam profile image58
                spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                That's so true. Thanks MM

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  See how you sheep are so supportive to protect the faith. I'm surprised you didn't throw an "amen" in there also. lol

                  1. spiderpam profile image58
                    spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Keep the faith, marine!

                  2. aguasilver profile image88
                    aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Amen

      2. aguasilver profile image88
        aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Marine, you will end up where you deserve to be, God is no respecter of persons and wherever you choose to reside for eternity will be and is your choice.

        God desires that ALL mankind should dwell with Him, however logic dictates that when someone detests God and wants to have nothing to do with Him, then God, being the Creator of everything and omnipotent, MUST provide suitable accommodation for those who want separation from Him.

        In His grace and mercy He has made this 'reserve' for people who, like you, feel that YOUR WILL is more important than His will, and you will be able to reside there with all the other like minded folk, who chose to refuse God's offer of spending eternity with Him.

        Of course some of them are not as polite and pleasant as yourself, some of them will have been murderers, paedophiles, rapists, thieves, sadists, serial killers, child molesters and generally very free thinking folk.

        Now I know from your profile that you are a tough guy, so you probably won't mind, Hell you may even enjoy it for as long as you can stay on top of things, so to speak!

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Is this logical to you?


          My will is free will. Did the bible not teach you that? If your god wanted everyone to believe the same, he shouldn't have created *******INDIVIDUAL********* minds.


          Again, the bible is contradiction to logic.

          The god of your bible creates separation, not unity. This is why we disagree. Is that not logical to you?

          1. aguasilver profile image88
            aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Of course it's logical to me, if you were staying at my house, but hated to eat met with me,because you were a Jewish vegan, I would have to provide a place for you to eat apart, or maybe with the goats!, but I LOGICALLY as you host, and believing in your right to exercise YOUR FREE WILL, would need to make a seperate dining room for you.

            It's the same with God.

            He gave you free will, He respects your right to your individualism and for you to use your free will, even when it is used to your detriment.

            If you choose to be separated from Him, so be it, you can be with all the others who chose the same thing by their actions.

            If this was not logical, then what should God do with those who refused to be with Him?

            Give me a better logical answer than to put them all together out of His sight and away from all those believers they hate, and let them do as they will, which is what they wanted all their life.

            Your will be done.

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You blind sheep, devolop self awareness please!!!!! Notice you said the word *****SEPARATE*****

              The bible is "separatist". Amazing! Are we getting through or do you still refuse me as the devil? lol



              You are saying keep the sheep away from the free thinking individuals. Separatism. Thanks for defining it.

              1. aguasilver profile image88
                aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Errr... actually it's you guys that want to be separated from God and us, God definitely wants us ALL together, but if you guys want out.... so be it.

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Believe or go to hell. You can't deny the facts. No matter how much interpretation you write.

                  1. aguasilver profile image88
                    aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not denying that at all, I'm simply saying its YOU who makes the choice, all God has done has accommodated your desire to be alone and not a part of Him.

                    God will not be making your eternity hell, it will be the other people who share your opinions that will define the nature of your eternal fate

            2. Evolution Guy profile image60
              Evolution Guyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              LOLOL

              Free will - Is it OK to say "F*** the holy spirit?"

              Or will that mean everlasting damnation?

              Baaaaah.

              Sheeple - Spam - it is maed of sheeple.

              Logic?

              You can say the word logic when you know what it means. For now - your irrational scary monster is a laughing stock. LOL I am actually laughing out loud at your invisible god.

              Why do you hate people who do not share your beliefs. Do they frighten you Daddy? wink

              1. spiderpam profile image58
                spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Hey Mark you want answer my questions lol

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  The simple point of your questions is to protect faith, not to learn anything. Do you blame anyone for not answering you?

                  1. spiderpam profile image58
                    spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    There are just questions. Don't be afraid, give it a try.

                  2. aguasilver profile image88
                    aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Logically shouldn't these 'atheists,scientists and evolutionaries' wish to answer these questions in case they looked like they couldn't by their silence?

                    So yes, I guess I would blame people for not answering Pam.... maybe they cannot, because she is one formidable apologist.

                    Nobody is protecting their faith except maybe you guys who profess to have none.

              2. 0
                sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Did you have a mother?

      3. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Did you miss reading this? Silly sheep. What questions didn't I answer for you?

  41. FarrahZimer profile image61
    FarrahZimerposted 7 years ago

    It seems Marinealways is trying to proclaim, in a poorly formulated question, that it is his/her belief anyone adhering to a religious belief is not of an individualistic thinking mind-frame--with the underlying implication that this is a 'bad thing' -- one can only infer that since the verbiage is poorly presented. So in a more intellible statement: anyone adhering to a religious belief is not individualistic -- that seems pretty narrow minded, refuting the statement he/she began with....

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How many years and dollars did you spend on your degree to write that. Simplified to your genius mind, grouped belief is a contradiction to forming an individual belief. I appologize if your degree didn't teach you this.

      1. FarrahZimer profile image61
        FarrahZimerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        What does my education (and the time and money I spent on it) have to do with individual thinking.  If my words offend you, then I can come down a notch.  Simply put Marine, is this:  I am blissfully religious and ignorantly (your word) faithful and yet, I am not offended by your thoughts.  I value what you have to say -- because you have a right to you opinions.  Your opinions reveal your values and no one can be dimished by what they believe.  But you make statements of Absolutism which when interpreted in the most "simplistic form" mean anyone who disagrees with you has nothing valuable to say.  And that is just as simplistic as the "group mentality" you so zealously oppose.  Don't apologize for anything Marine...I am very grateful for what MY DEGREE taught me, but more than that, I am very grateful that I can value everyone regardless of whether they can agree with me or not.

        Cheers Love

        1. marinealways24 profile image61
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I am asking you and anyone else to prove me wrong from a logical standpoint.

          Why can't this be done?

          Because I put my ideas together with logic, not faith. I do not believe in contradictions. There is no progress in a contradictory belief.

          1. FarrahZimer profile image61
            FarrahZimerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Certainly Marine, your question -- as you have posted it above -- is a VERY VALID one and of tremendous amount of value.  I just visited your profile and you seem like such an diverse human being.  You have served the country, you are a father, a husband, and have done such an array of jobs, you are no doubt very intelligent and interesting to say the least.  But when you make condescending comments it makes me believe you don't really want to hear what others have to say but you just want to shun opposing view points as ignorant and that doesnt make for fun engagement.  Know this, we are all walking about convinced that the path we have taken is correct, otherwise, why would we take it?  And those paths are as varied as there are 'minds' -- all I am saying to you is that although you are completely different from me...I still think you have a lot to contribute, to inform, and that I can learn from your thoughts although they oppose mine.  That's all I was trying to say --

            1. marinealways24 profile image61
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Well thank you for being an honest and sincere person. I appreciate that no matter what you believe. I do have a few agendas which I have previously stated. 1. was to make people think. Agreeing does not make people think. Thinking comes from argueing and debate to minds that are open. 2. Was to expose how the religious belief is tied into the emotions of believers. There is no logic in an emotionally driven belief. I enjoy your comments and others for the disagreement. We learn far more from disagreements than we do from agreeing.

              1. FarrahZimer profile image61
                FarrahZimerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Well stated Marine, I understand now that you did have an agenda and I respect your honesty about it.  I agree opposing thoughts sharpen our own.  I will definitely visit your hubs to try to give you more rebuttals.  (wink) -- you are definitely fun and interesting.  God bless, you...er...sorry (LOL Just kidding) :-)

                1. marinealways24 profile image61
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Likewise. I appreciate your honesty and open mind. I love rebuttals! No comment on the "God bless" wink. lol But thanks.

  42. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Why is the sheepish responses so boring and always repetitive?

    What is, there is no individual thought! Let's play jeopardy!

  43. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Why is the sheepish mind so predictable for $500?


    Alex, What is, their belief is defined within a book!

  44. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Why can I have a more entertaining conversation with myself than I can with sheepish followers for $10,000?


    Daily Double!!!!



    I will risk it all Alex.


    What is, I have a mind!

  45. spiderpam profile image58
    spiderpamposted 7 years ago

    Schizophrenia- Talking with ones' self; Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and defects of the frontal lobe and is caused by genetic, other biological, and psychosocial factors.

    PSTD from serving the military is a leading cause.

    In all seriousness SEEK HELP!

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You silly sheep. Faith is the illusion. Logic is reality. I think you just described that you have schizophrenia.


      Is it you or me that talks to God? lol Silly sheep


      Are you done yet?

  46. Cagsil profile image78
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    The simple fact that religious beliefs or beliefs founded on no facts, or beliefs based on emotions, is against the nature of man and woman.

    You defy your own life and create irrational, non-logical, non-substance for a non-realistic belief.

    Any practice of religion goes directly against the existence of mankind.

    Those who are believers are blinded by their 'faith' or 'belief', because they think that they have rationalized their own belief based on facts.

    The 'facts' usually come from religion or religious text.

    As for Earth having an individual creator has been proven wrong, when science proved how Earth formed.

    To think that a 'creator' provided the sequences that took place is not facing the facts proven and jumps to assumption based on nothing.

    And, when you speak of a 'creator', theologians have constantly argued- if there was a creator for earth, then who created the creator? And, who created the creator's creator.

    Life exists because it evolved on Earth. No explanation on how or why is needed nor need be answered. It's left up to those who are inept and deal in non-reality unrealistic people or places.

    1. spiderpam profile image58
      spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      @Cagsil

      Your question on who created the Creator is a loaded one. It's like saying “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”

      Scientist agree with law of Cause and Effect, and they concur  in the fact the we wouldn’t be here if there was an infinite regression of causes concluding there must be 1 uncaused cause. That's God!

      I tried this with you before and you didn't answer, let's see if you will this time. How do you account for logic and thought in purely natural terms?
      In nature all you really have are 5 senses. Logic and thought no being one of them, so what is your basis for logic?

      How has sciences proved how the earth formed. The big bang? Since when do we ever see an explosion create order? Furthermore, What exploded?

      When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

      When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

      How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

      How did thought evolve?

      How did flowering plants evolve, and from what?

      Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?

      When you take away the Creator you must define EVERYTHING by purely nature means, and until do can answer all the questions(and I have more), all you have is faith.

      1. Cagsil profile image78
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That is a twisting of reality. To suit your own needs.

        Cause and effect- only means that action(s) have an effect. For every action there is an effect, regardless of whether or not, it is realized.

        If your trying to say that the effects(life) is from cause(God), there isn't any proof.

        The fact that you see "Life" as an effect of something greater is your problem. Life simply exists.



        Answer: I don't see any meaning or understanding from your question, because logic and thoughts are rationalized by each individual, based on their knowledge of life and understanding of their knowledge(wisdom). Logic is formed based on thoughts(knowledge and understanding). Thoughts are caused because of consciousness(and subconscious) and conscience working together.
        And, by the way, the nature of man and woman is not the same as nature of the world. There is a difference.



        This statement doesn't make sense, maybe because of a typo on your part.

        In nature of mankind(man and woman)- you do have 5 senses. Yes.

        Logic and thought? I conclude you meant NOT being one of them? So what is my(your) basis for logic? Logic is based on factual knowledge, understanding of that knowledge and reality.



        Do I look like your teacher. Go back to school if you don't understand how Earth came to be.



        Do you know something we don't know? Dead matter?

        Your inquiry is ridiculous and subjective. There a billions of questions about life, and most of them need not or ever be answered.



        Reproducing is an instinctive biological trait. You never have to be told how to reproduce. It is innate, in being a human with a consciousness/awareness of life.



        You seem to like comparing apples to oranges, and yet your looking to define a banana.

        You seem to be a confused individual.

        You concept of life and it's meaning is completely lost.



        To begin with I deal with reality. The reality of how thought evolve has been revealed was describe decades ago. If you don't know where to look, may I suggest a library, subject- the mind.

        As for how did flowering plants evolve, and from what?

        Why do you care how a planet became a flowering plant or where it came from? It's ridiculous, unless your a botanist.

        As for- Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing? I could more easily believe reality, and the fact I do know, than to believe in the ONE Creator theory or idea.

        I mean, you are making something out of nothing. The only reason you belief as you do, is because there is no proof to deny what you claim. So, you can continue to argue all you want, but won't get you anywhere in the end.



        I no longer have any questions about life, because my life is now understood by me.

        If you have questions about life, I'm pretty sure some of those questions are questions that need never be answered or irrelevant to reality.

        When you take away your 'creator' - 'you must defined EVERYTHING by purely nature means'. How things are defined is based on facts, not nature means.

        If you took your 'creator' out of the equation- like for example: if 'religions' did NOT exist- YOU wouldn't belief there was a god.

        Because, if religion did NOT exist- you wouldn't know anything about a 'god' figure, because it wouldn't have been written or talked about by others.

        So, with that said. It's best not patronize others. It usually gets you burned.

        1. aguasilver profile image88
          aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well Cags you wriggled well on most of those points, but that's to be expected.

          Even in the most remote areas, tribes that have never been exposed to the modern world or had any outside contact have always had a knowledge of God, that's why God states that there are no excuses for rejecting Him.

          Romans 1.
          Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

          For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

          Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

          Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

          And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

          Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

          Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

          1. Cagsil profile image78
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Again, you come at me with man-made scripture conjecture without facts.

            Just in case- facts are based on science and philosophy. That creates what is called= REALITY!

            You might want to try sticking to it.

            Your attempt to use scriptures to prove a point is irrational and poorly thought out. It shows you cannot fight or argue your point from an offensive position of strength. You reply was defensively written, as to oppose my offensive science and philosophy enforced facts.

            Nice try. Like I said- stick to reality. You thinking outside reality isn't healthy for you. lol

  47. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    You silly sheep, which creates more wars, separatism or unity and equality?


    Wake up from your little sheep minds if you haven't broken the light switch.

  48. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Individual thought is the devil!

    Logic is the devil!

    A mind is the devil!

  49. spiderpam profile image58
    spiderpamposted 7 years ago

    Warning to marine answering these questions will require thought. lol

  50. spiderpam profile image58
    spiderpamposted 7 years ago

    "When you take away the Creator you must define EVERYTHING by purely natural means, and until do can answer all the question, all you have is faith."

    You have the speech style of a Nihilist, but you’re not quiet there. That’s good!

    I’m surprised that you only stated opinion and NOT facts
    You constantly talk about FACTS, yet you only present opinion and your opinion is NOT fact. So let'sdeal with what you answered with fact not your opinions ok....moving on.


    Since you deny the FACT of Cause and Effect you can deny anything which explains why you feel the need to post here(Who can catch you when you‘re not running).

    The why are you so quick to down talk anything?

    Don’t you see that bizarre conclusion you have to make in order to avoid the Law of Cause and Effect which is a FACT

    You must deny factual knowledge, understanding to hold to your “existence”

    "Do I look like your teacher. Go back to school if you don't understand how Earth came to be." 

    No cop out answer the question.

    You've shown no facts, enjoy your faith.

    1. Cagsil profile image78
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The FACT that you're going to such an extent, without reading the posts that are given to you or reading only what you want from them is ridiculous.

      You're the one with the subjective view, which was based on NO FACTS whatsoever.

      Again, it's not me having to prove whether or not GOD exists.

      I don't have to- reality says he doesn't exist by any and ALL definitions.

      Damn, I have been, all this time, trying to give you credit for being knowledgeable, but now I'm not going to even give you credit for any rational thought you could possibly come up next.

      Why? Because, you are completely out of whack.

      1. spiderpam profile image58
        spiderpamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol Is that a FACT!lol

 
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