Religion is dead…stepped over and left behind by educated thinkers…remaining remnants left standing continue to crumble as last of non-thinkers roll back into earth’s dust, water and atmosphere, non-thinkers heaven. The truth hurts.
Agreed that 'religion' is to become dead and not practiced.
How ever, 'religion' MUST be revealed for what it is and for what it is not.
The simple fact that many people "believe" or have "faith", in a non-existent 'god', makes absolutely no logical sense.
Yes, faith- allows you to believe in whatever you want, but if you don't spend most of your life inside reality and more time in a non-reality place, then you're most likely to miss out on your life and it's meaning(a real purpose, which worshipping a 'god' is not a real purpose, because it's based on imaginary characters you've created in your mind.)
The 'way' you form your belief is due to a lack of knowledge and understanding you have on life itself. And, the FACT that you don't see it, is not much of a surprise.
@ Valerie F.
You are correct - religion is NOT superstition.
Religion is a CORE belief which allows one to obtain or attain, "Enlightenment" and nothing more.
Enlightenment is Consciousness, to be one with oneself.
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"
Some believe the idea of God died in the Holocaust.
I'd suspect a certain notion of religion and God died, but as this thread is testimony to, for many hiding out in their caves, this is not so.
His ideas are not at odds with God, however, just the notion of God brought forward, I believe, with the Christian thinkers at the end of the Classical period who wanted to meld human ethics teaching to the notion of the divine.
I do think for myself, I could decide that maybe you really do know what you are talking about but instead I am going to use my brain and free will, and I've come to the conclusion that you are wrong. Does that count as thinking for myself?
My beliefs are based on EVERYTHING! Are you kidding me? Your a little twisted here, your the one who doesnt believe in anything remember.
I believe in God, my creator, I believe in Jesus my saviour the one who died to save me, I believe in living life the way God would want me to (10 commandments) I believe in eternal life through Jesus I believe in a lot.
Science is not based on belief. Science is based on fact - which, let me explain, is information that can be independently verified. Scientists don't base facts on what they believe, or what they can claim. They base facts on what can be proven. What you present as "facts" from the bible are not facts at all unless they can be proven by a second source, independent of the bible.
I have! did they ever figure out if he believed in Aristotle's God, or The Christian one, the last he said before the controversy of him going batty (allegedly) was that he could not agree upon the existence of a Christian/Jewish/Muslim God. What an interesting man, back and forth all the time. Just like me though he did believe that science and religion could co-exist and actually compliment each other.
Really, besides the BROKEN ROMAN SEAL, EMPTY TOMB, JESUS' APPEARANCES CONFIRMED by OVER 500 WITNESSES and the millions of martyrs and historical record by Jews and pagans attesting to the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Take a lot faith to deny all of that.
Cagsil of course those that witnessed the resurrected Jesus Christ and wrote about it were "conscious of their own life". If they weren't conscious of their own life then how do you think they wrote about it. They were as conscious of their own life as you or I am. They wrote a historical document of Jesus Christ which is the New Testament of the Holy Bible.
Do you believe that George Washington was the first President of the United States? How do you know that? Seeing you didn't live then you have to believe in historical documents and traditional word of mouth passed down through the ages. Just the same way Christians believe in the resurrected Jesus Christ, through historical documents and traditional word of mouth passed down through the ages. It's the same thing.
Ah...I wouldn't use the George Washington/Resurrection as a comparison. The plausibility of Washington being the first President of the United States is more realistic. While the resurrection, on the other hand, is supernatural.
I'm not downing your belief here...I just think it was a poor comparison.
No drej2522, it is an identical comparison. To not believe in the historical resurrected Jesus Christ is akin to not believing that George Washington was the first President of the United States. You can't prove either without the historical documents or the traditional word of mouth (examples: the Bible and historical record of George Washington). It's the same thing.
I have a much easier time accepting valid documents from Washington's era than in Jesus' era. Also, there is documentation of Washington's presidency from nations around the world, it's not just limited to the USA's version of history.
I disagree...it's not the same. One statement is a historical fact and the other is an interpretation. You can't intrepret George Washington being the 1st President of the United States. He just is. Jesus Christ's ressurrection is abstract and superfical, therefore it is subject to interpretation, whether it is true or not. Do you see the difference?
It's like believing in ghosts. There can be 20 eyewitnesses who say and record having seen a ghost. Does it make it true? Maybe. But I wouldn't compare it to President Obama being the first African American President of the United States.
No I don't see the difference at all. Eye witnesses historically recorded the resurrected Jesus Christ just the same way that eye witnesses historically recorded George Washington. It's the same thing. It's up to you and me whether we believe the historical record of both Jesus Christ or George Washington.
Have you ever heard of the rumor game? One person whispers a sentence into the next person's ear. That person repeats it with the next person. All in a row, the people take turns whispering the sentence until the very last person repeats it out loud. It is NEVER the same sentence that it started out to be. My friends and I have tried. Just doesn't work. Each person interprets it differently as they pass it on. We seriously try to make it work, we can't.
Spread this concept over 2000 years, across many different cultures, a story being reinterpreted as it is retold.
The resurrection story is not documented history. There is no verifiable source to it. It is a story.
He was arguing that there was an historical account within the Gospels. But even the Apostles interpreted the resurrection differently. No ‘ONE’ view is exactly the same...which was my point. There is nothing to interpret in George Washington being the 1st OFFICIAL (ahem, thanks for that clarification Cagsil) President of the United States. It was an event that took place, with no room for insight or speculation. For IF it was questionable, wouldn't we have heard arguments about Washington's inauguration?
The BIBLE isn't proven to have any kind of facts in it. That includes your so-called 'eye-witness' accounts.
What part do you not understand- the BIBLE isn't right.
Reality says it's wrong.
Science says it's wrong.
Yet, you foolishly follow it. Everything in Life points to it being wrong, even that feeling you have DEEP inside you.
If YOU can't explain it to yourself and make yourself 100% believe it, then why do this?
It is IMPOSSIBLE for a human being to 'believe' or put 'faith' in 100% of something that they know isn't real. If you were 100% completely and totally to have 'belief' or 'faith' in something that wasn't real- then you wouldn't be able to tell between real things and not real things. Plus, since you are directly going against the nature of being human, you would die much more quickly. Just from the stress you are putting on your body and your mind.
Your consciousness, your conscience and your sub-conscious, will NEVER be completely bought on the story you told it.
So, stop lying to yourself.
This debate as far as I am concerned it over with.
You have your proof- look at the doubt, which is so obvious that you have- you hoping for it to be true, DOES NOT make it true.
well the problem with historical documents is that not every country or cultures has the same point of view about what happened. therefore, if you went to london, some historians over there claim that the king of england appointed george washington as president, versus our view of him being elected unanymously into office. therefore, historical documents can be faked or possibly forged. hence the term, "history is written by the winners."
take christopher columbus discovering america. he didn't discover it. there were people already living peacefully there, so how could he discover it? then later its written that the americans made peace with the indians on thanksgiving. however, in college, i had a history teacher that told me that version of history is only taught in america. where as if you were to do research on it, the very next week after the indians had thanksgiving with the pilgrims, they were killed for not wanting to convert to christianity. plus, that wasn't the first thanksgiving either, as thanksgiving was a annual event the indians celebrated and invited the pilgrims to. however, since the pilgrims and settlers wiped out the indians over time, their history is skewed by america claiming that was the first thanksgiving when it wasn't. therefore, historical documents could be changed.
Dead on stevie nix. Thanksgiving is for football, the story behind it is BS. Columbus day too. Regarding whether Washington was appointed or elected, there is no dispute that he was president just the same. There is enough documentation and evidence that his presidency happened, regardless of the interpretations.
The first thanksgiving dinner and the resurrection are in the same chapter of my book A nice story, to make you smile. Nothing more.
Apparently I read in papers that more educated people are turning to religion each day. Haven't heard any news of the opposite though so far. Would love to see the individual statistics to identify and establish the trend
I don't blame you for anything. You appear to be confused. I've not mentioned the bible. Again, where are your facts so that people who are interested in reading them can. If you don't want to share your facts with others who are looking for an honest debate, then one has to assume they don't exist.
Pascal's Wager basically put... If you believe there is a Creator, and He exists, you gain everything. If you believe, as the marxists do, that there is no God, and God exists, you lose everything, not only after this life, but also during this life; including your right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Did it work? Don't people still break laws even with the consequences known? The entire "Religion to control masses" line is illogical at best because people still do horrible things. You again speak of facts and I have yet to see you present any. Just long ramblings of a so called enlightened mind.
Religion defies logic in many ways. It makes no sense that it still exists in the Twenty-First century, and in light of all the education and advances in science. At this time in man's evolution he is still not ready to stop relying on superstition for guidance. Baffling!!!
Can't people just be spiritual, why do we have to keep wasting time with religion fourums - it's weird in this kind of community and everyone has there own beliefs so where does the need come from to announce it?
Your religions kill and cause death. Death to the spirit, death the Earth, death to the masses, death to the god you call God, Death, death, death, death, death and more death.
Fear, fear death, don't fear death fear death. Die, stone them, hang them, burn them, don't murder them just kill them. Kill, kill, kill, kill says the good works of the Lord!!!
Kill or be killed. Turn the other cheek he says... kill then yourself. Suicide, kill, murder, death.
A dead god, a living dead god. A zombie who manifest in the night so that he appears as the light. It hides quietly under your bed listening to your prayers.
Dear God, if you can hear me, forgive me for my trespasses but when oh when Good Lord will you come to do as you said you should do? How much longer shall I suffer with the unbelievers, the idolaters, those who worship death, Satan, the deceived.
Put your hand on me and let me do your works. It is your will my Lord. Because I am faithful, I shall overcome. I will kill with love in my heart. I shall die burdened and sufferable.
My death is like yours. Please Oh Heavenly Father, let me be crucified as your son. Allow me to be the atonement for the unbelievers. Because death is the only way to life through the grace of your son whom you made the sacrificial lamb so that us worthless idolaters shall be saved from the mess created by our own hands!
We are not good enough to be made the sacrificial lambs, we are sinners and not worthy but Christ was made perfect therefore the death of the innocent represents your true way oh Lord.
Forgive them Oh Lord for they do not understand...
Just got home from working, read this and just gotta comment! Region is gettin weaker- There is a God and the Real kind of Belief in Him is gettin stronger, Yea for OUR Team !!! Everybody got a definition of Religion. This is a totally diffrent thang than everyone's definition of A creator. The creator's name is GOD regardless of Denomination. Denominations need to die so that GOD can better be seen. I think that the arguments that Atheists are bringing to the forefront are convincing many religious people to drop the religious worship and worship the true god, Thank you Atheists!!! You are doing Gods work; scaring them outa religiosity back home to God WORSHIP Many thanks to the Atheists.
yea, but you can't see, feel, hear, or touch air, so how do you know that even exists? plus, have you ever seen a million dollars? let alone a billion. if not, then how do you know that a million dollars or even a billion exist, because you see guys like trump and bill gates on tv or news articles. for all you know, that could be a lie perpetrated by the media. although, that's not what i feel because i do believe that a million and a billion of dollars exist as do i believe in air and god. i was just throwing that out as an example.
just because you can't see, feel, hear, or smell something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. do you honestly believe that out of the billions upon billions of planets upon the billion upon billions of stars, we're truly the only life form out there? plus, scientists have already proven that other dimensions do in fact exist, so who's to say that life might not exist in other dimensions, hmmm?
well my friend, as morpheus said in the matrix, "if your perception of reality is based on what you can see, touch, feel, smell, or hear, then all reality is to you is optic nerve signals triggered by your brain."
yes, how can you prove that we don't live in such a reality though? you would have no way to prove it or know it. plus, think about it, mankind technology hasn't evolved too much after the 1950's. sure, we've gotten the internet, cell phones, and more advanced upgrades on existing technology. however, we haven't evolved in society to where we have colonies up in space as it was projected or have flying cars or virtual reality. so for all you know a advanced computer could have a elaborate system of control to keep us from evolving too much technology wise.
hmmm...you might have a valid point there as it was once thought that embriotic cell research could be used to cure cancer and such. heck, some scientists believed that cloning and genetic engineering could've been used to replace internal organs, so organ donor ship wouldn't be necessary. therefore, i can see where you going with that one.
however, i don't believe science to be a contradiction of a creator. merely as a tool to explain how he created the universe and us. for if your truly an omnipotent being, then he could create us however he wanted.
dude, what the heck your problem, im here trying to have a intellectual debate with you and your attacking my intelligence by calling me a moron. is this what you do to everyone that disagrees with you?
yes, most people of less than average intelligence feel often threaten when they have no counter arguement to someone else. instead of offering a challenging an intellectual debate, he/she chooses to insult others that have beliefs that contradict their own. thus, causing themselves to feel anger and hostility, two of the key signs of a weak intellect.
no, i just don't care to be called a moron or stupid just for trying to have an intellectual debate thats all. if you were really as highly evolved as you claim to be your excellency, you'd apologize to me
The man that wrote the U.S. constitution (Jefferson) tore out the greater part of the bible in an effort to make some sense out of it...He was never convinced that is was anything other than lies and fraud invented by priesthood.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen
Religion is dead?
Hardly. Just because there is a little communist atheist element in the United States that is desperately screaming their anti-christian propaganda it doesn't mean that it is true. There are 6 million new Christians coming into the church in Africa every year. The underground Christian church in China is growing dynamically. China may eventually become the country with the most Christians in fact. Christianity is growing all over the world. Soon it will have been taken to all peoples and nations. Do you know what will happen then?
No...but i'll wager you're gonna tell us...propaganda seems to be your mission..."underground christian church in china"...that's what i'm talking about...the tunnel caved in and killed religion.
Hello MakeMoney...i have read much of your philosophy and I remain your humble servant. of course there may be some disagreements in our propaganda. I understand that you are a fine liberal in good standing.
Stop poppin rounds off at your allies. I said this thread sucks because you can't teach a religious dog logical tricks...
Their answer will always be, "I base my beliefs off the FACT that the bible is True."
And that's what makes science so great. I like the quote from the movie Dogma here... War's are fought to change religion. Ideas can be changed in an instant. I'd much rather believe in something that I can change on a whim then on something that could be completely wrong, but refuses to admit it.
If someone was half as smart as they think that they are they would know how obnoxious they are. A teenager with a descent IQ of about 130 who's momma told um that they were the smartest thing EVER. She believed it and here we are listening to it.
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