Does prayer work?
Personally, I believe we choose to be chosen !? I know what I mean by that
If prayer worked, there would be no dead people and we'd all be rich.
Well - my answer was part joke part serious and of course, the standard answer to whether or not prayer works - which your comment basically said - is Yes, if it's all part of the grand scheme and it's God's will or fate or whatever. Which, if you think about it is a complete cop-out.
I have a very strong belief system that does not include a belief in a higher power or prayers being answered.
I do believe that we are all connected and together form a complex organism (if that's the right word) that includes everything in the Universe. I also believe that many people have allowed themselves to become emotionally disconnected from the organism and that "praying" - for want of a better word can allow them to re-connect to that organism - briefly. And I include all forms of prayer in that - mantras, kneeling down in church and asking the lord god, Yoga, sitting in a sweat lodge - whichever way your particular belief system teaches you is THE way to re-connect.
But - I am not nearly arrogant enough to think that what I need or desire or want is in any way important to the organism/God/the universe. And fail to see why people think they are.
Yes, we are all part of it, but once you realize your part in the grand scheme, you are forced to let go and accept that you are insignificant and your ego/wants/needs/desires are completely irrelevant - and it doesn't matter so much any more. And so you feel better/more relaxed/as though your prayers have been answered.
If prayer works, that is what it allows you to do.Wow Mark....that sounds a lot like Buddhist thinking there....be careful you might be religious after all! Lol.
Buddhists meditate and do mantras (prayers) to change the way their own mind works. If you change your personal view of the universe then you see things in a more positive light. Seeing things in a more positive light allows you to become a more positive force in the world. Becoming a more positive force in the world brings more positive things back to your own personal existence. Hence it would appear that your 'prayers' have been answered.
However to clarify, Buddhists don't 'pray' FOR things. We recite what they call 'the universal prayer' mantra simply to cultivate positive energy and thinking.
Even psychologists will tell you that reciting a phrase everyday will profoundly effect your psyche and how you relate to others. That is why it is important to stop negative 'loops' in your head and promote 'positive' ones.
And I agree with Misha. Death plays an important role in life. As much as death saddens people, it also creates empathy and compassion. Knowing life is short changes how we relate to each other. A world without death would be a scary place indeed. Think about it.Oddly enough, many religions including Christianity do similar mantra type prayers
- there is a good reason why this enables us to change our awareness and it is a physical one, not spiritual - Just try sitting on a noisy train rocking from side to side for 3 hours after not eating for 2 days, and you will experience a sensation and awareness not dissimilar to chanting for several hours.
This is not the same as having your prayers answered. And I think many religions have lost in the mists of time the reason for these repetitive "mantras" and mixed them up with something completely different - we have lost touch with who we are and doing these sort of exersises puts us in a different frame of mind that allows us to disconnect from all the distractions around us - advertising, buying a new phone, wondering if your boyfriend likes your new hair color etc.
As for death - we have no choice in the matter, despite what the pharmaceutical companies mat sell you LOL But if prayer worked, there would be no dead people - just look at how many people claim or hope that prayer saved their lives.
I don't recall who said this and I am paraphrasing - but if it never got dark, how would you know when it was light.Totally agree.
No one does
this is an earlier post of mine
Wow - we got Mark finally disclosing his believes - and surprisingly they are not that atheistic as he wanted us to believe
It's amazing to see how people who dare to think about how our Universe works come to pretty similar conclusions!LOL- Well, I DO NOT believe there is a god - I DO NOT believe there is a plan,
But I do believe we are all connected - this is largely a product of the fact that it is not possible to destroy anything - therefore we are all made of what became before and will be part of what comes next.
And I like to think of myself as a zen-atheist
I do not see the need to analyze all this, or pray, or feel the need to think that there is an almighty being who cares for us in any way.
And, yes, I think it is arrogant to think that I make any difference or that a "God" would listen to my prayers.
I also think it is arrogant of anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs to inflict them on some one else. And I take great exception to people who try to so that. I have complete and utter disdain for anyone who says they have the answer. And I have nothing but contempt for the religious hypocrites who preach one thing and do not follow their teachings.
As to the original question does prayer work ? I leave my first answer - If prayer worked, there would be no dead people and we'd all be rich.Hard to explain - like all spiritual beliefs, they are better understood by the person who believes them (me) than trying to explain them or persuade someone else of their truths.
Atheist because I do not believe there is a higher power with any sort of plan and Zen because I have spent a great deal of time practicing martial arts and have realized that much of what we think we have learned was already known and if we could just get "ourselves" out of the way, we would have seen it. Also, I try to be aware of those around me and the things that go on around me. See? Hard to explain.
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago
0joan osborne, nice choice Misha - great song.
I get miracles all the time, even when I don't pray for them. but that's just me and I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything and I don't care who believes that I do. I know it and it's enough. Yep. I just love her. I have all what she cared to release
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
me too - yay, another thing in common.
Yes and no. In a sense they are doing their own stuff, but 1) they can only do what they were designed for; 2) they are ordered by organism when to do what.
And I never said God interacts with us on its conscious level
As well as you I don't have the answers, I'm just speculatingWell, "plan" is most probably just lost in translation - see Plato's cave, and "answer" may be in a same way as your organism unconsciously removes a hand from fire when feels the pain - "prayer"
LOL - Nice try.
Although, to use your analogy - None of the skin cells have away of making that "prayer," - That's the job of the nociceptors - a completely different group of cells and part of the peripheral nervous system.
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
I think people make the mistake of thinking it's about asking for something for yourself or for an easy life.
I don't think that is what you can get, so I don't think that is what you should ask for. :p No prosperity gospel here. It's pretty easy to see what God thinks is worthy by just reading the 'red words'.
Let's say you believe that Jesus' teachings have value whether you think he is God or no. Let's say what you pray for is the opportunity to NOT focus on self and to be able to help (or at least not damage) others and then you try to act on it. See if you get that.
let's say life is about liking yourself and being happier in general and about being as decent a person as you can as you move through the world.
then, moreso, see if that makes you a happier person, because good psychology and most philosophy will tell you that it does, too.Amen-- I concur: Besides, there are no aethists in foxholes, and life is one big foxhole
I offer you the idunnian political general phrase - tend to agree.
ah, could you be any more likeable?
Surprisingly I'm pretty much with you on this, too
Could it be because of Joan? IDK
If one manages to find the right thing - meaning the one he/she *really* wants - and I don't mean cars and houses here - and asks for that in any way he/she is aware of - I'm positive he/she gets granted a favorable reply...universal truths is probably why. I followed universal truths from all kinds of sources until I found God, kind of accidently.
I think the problem arises when people misdefine 'happiness'. remember that link to the happiness survey from the other thread? people are tending to self-report as happier in third world nations. this would explain that. :p
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
I must say I don't understand why prayer=God. There are many religions who use prayer who do not have a God as a figurehead. Prayer does not have to be TO something.
Just my humble opinion.
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
I believe there are universal truths that transcend most religions. I do not see the differences you do, not even in say, Islam.
Now if you want to pull in Greek Gods, that would be more say fatalist philosophy, that we have no control over our lives. I won't say it's impossible, but I will say it's less than useful for maximizing our effectiveness in dealing with the world and for personal happiness.
If you choose to worship Hera, I can call you a Hera-tic. hehehe
fun discussion, your turn.The differences are surely there, one need only read the varying tenets between them.
Some refer to me as a pantheist, but I like to get into heated discussions, hence I prefer the term, "Frying Pantheists."
That you don't know and have no way of knowing whether this is good or bad - so you cannot align yourself with the Universe (or God), and your prayer cannot be answered.
In a sense of feeding hungry children - absolutely- RFoxposted 16 years ago0
Yes, this is an interesting thought provoking thread. Also I love your title (Q). Is it a Star Trek reference of am I the only geek here? Lol.
"Be a good person to the best of your capacity."
Couldn't agree more Iounn!
Which is the same place Star Trek got the name from
See? - there is only one religion.Dammit. You're right.......again!
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
that must be the new Star Trek. I grew up with the old one, on tv. How I loved that show! I was in love with Captain Kirk/William Shatner for the longest time.
LOL - well, the new star trek is actually the old star trek now
Just not quite as old as the really old star trek - which is now the new ancient star trek
I felt the same way when the "new'" star trek came out and the same when the "new, new" star trek did (Voyager) and then again when the "new, new, new," ones did (Enterprise)
TNG is awesome
DS9 is OK
Voyager is awesome
Enterprise sux ass
So, you have at least 400 episodes that are worth watching - I envy you
I am a Star Trek fan - not groupie - FAN
In fact - I would go so far as to say that Star Trek is my religion (and Hitch Hiker's guide - the books - not the "new" movie)I pray for you, Mark
lolz, nice.
I don't need your stinkin' heathen prayers - I have Star Trek
*prays for Mark too*
- RFoxposted 16 years ago0
OMG the sun is shining! No more perpetual endless rain and gloom. My prayers were answered and I must rush outside for some photography!
LOL
RFox Budha is "God" for those who believe in him. That`s what I meant. Trust me , if you want to start believing in say.."Your Laptop From tomorrow on" and really practice that , you might end up praying to it aswel. I have seen people praying to statues.
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
Catholic.
I am not sure if you are aware but it is Catholic catechism that any person trying to do right by himself and others out of a reaching for good goes to Heaven. It doesn't matter what religion you are, or even if you have never heard of God. It is called "baptism by desire", that if the information had been put to you in such a way you could understand it, you would have chosen it.
Misha you get me wrong a bit. Sorry for that
You don`t understand what I mean by God.
God for me is the Universe.
God knows all , God makes things happen..
As for Buddha being the historical founder of Buddhism
I`ve read wikipedia now .. He has been the founder
But what you don`t understand is what i mean by "God"
It`s the "Thing" we believe in
The thing that created us..
And thank you for the information
but I am really more into psychology and art than religion.broalex, it is pretty much like to say "Moses was God"
If you did not know, RFox is a Buddhist, and she knows what she is talking about - you don't-
I am glad we have some areas we meet in. I like to discover similarities and differences with others, hopefully joyously. It's lovely we have this part in common. Yes, it is close, I think.
Me too Iounn
I love art
Photography (Photo Editing) more precise , writing and graffiti.
www.deviantart.com - for people that love art by all its means .. (Iounn poetry too)- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
Well, that's what I believe - I have faith you see, in the power of Star Trek and pretty much write it to suit the occasion
Although I am prepared to accept that there are other gospels worth listening to , such as Star Wars and The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the galaxy. Amen....There you go Thom - It's just as you were saying.
By the way, I am liking your posts more and more- sandra rinckposted 16 years ago0
Quite right, but judging from the many people on this thread who say prayer does work because they have been healed, seen a miraculous recovery or got what they wanted, there is a large group who thinks "prayer" is about asking for what they want. even the dictionary definition starts with this:
1. A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.
In that context, I don't see how it can work.
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