Can you blame me?
All both will ever do is fight with each other. Bored to the core with the same secular reasoning back and forth. The figure pointing. Both, in my eyes, are one in the same.
Sadly the only thing I have learned from either side is how to be positively negative.
Learned a bit of history on the way though. Does anyone just accept both as what they are? Atheist wont give up until religions give up. Religionist wont give up until everyone else submits.
I figure F**k'em both. By that I mean, I give up on both... moving on now.
Not just the Atheist and those so-called Christian, the Republican and the Demoncrat as well as the Conservative and the Liberal are just as guiltly as far as the finger pointer is concerned.
I hate to admit it but the Republican and the Conservation are bad enough but the Demoncrat and the Liberal are the worst because most of the are hypocrite like most of the Christain I knew.
By the way, did you know that except for some christain, most of them have know Jesus and yet they are going to hell because they do not give up their own sin.
Atheists and Christians? It's the same as politics: Left versus Right & all that nonsense. Why do people always have to join one side or another? Do they feel insecure with individual originality?
Although I do not use your colorful metaphors, haha, I totally agree with your sentiments. From what I have seen in the forums the vicious discussion serves no purpose other than to make both sides look mean spirited and foolish. I do not believe that everyone (no matter which side they are on) is that mean spirited in person. Much better to leave it alone.
I really like the way you think! LOL I feel the same way as you do. I say live and let live. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they choose. Who's to say that one thing is right and one thing is wrong. You go girl! LOL
Actually Sandra, I have quite a few friends that are on both sides of the equation. I am a Christian, although I respect many paths. Many of my friends are agnostics, atheists, christians, wiccans and even a buddhist. We all get along because we all agree that each of us has the right to choose our own paths and, while we may discuss thoughts from time to time, we are respectful of each other boundaries. I think if more people would learn to let others make their own choices and realize that it's not up to them, it wouldn't be a battle between Christian and Atheist anymore. We could all just be people.
Well, although I would perhaps not adopt some of your language or hatred, I have been doing a lot of thinking about such things. I have a couple of hubs about it. You might be interested in them.
Nothing personal Mark... It is the back and forth arguing with no possible means to an end.
Call it semantics if you will but doesn't seem like atheism is doing any better than theism.
Depends on your goals. You really think I can talk some sense into anyone?
Especially as they get so "tired" of being bashed for spreading their faith.
And so it goes on.
I absolutely swear 100% I will never say I do not believe in god if no one says they do.
I will not be the one to break the peace.
I would tend to disagree. There have been a lot of theists who have joined forums and have discarded their belief systems primarily from the arguments of non-believers.
I've yet to see one person convert to theism, though.
Live and let live I always say. There is no reason why we cannot coexist in peace. Christians should be able to live just fine next to each other knowing that at least the neighbor believes in some form of Jesus Christ. Atheists should be just fine living next to a Christian because, well, from what all I've read on HubPages they think we (Christians) are all nutty anyhow. I'd say that's true for everyone though. The world would be very dull and uneventful if we all had the same thought processes. I must admit, though, I do get tired of being bashed for my faith. As long as I know I am kept clean by not tearing down another person's faith I am happy as can be.
Which is where I started, got distracted and bashed and bashed away, took a moment, realized I have been bashed by both side, considered that both just want recognition, recognized both. Accept both but trust something better.................................................................................................... I am fine with both sides, neither is better then the other, don't insist I choose or get the bashing myself. Just sick of it really. Returning to the love side of life.
Love em' all even the knuckle heads and I feel much happier.
So - Promise I do not have to listen to any more church bells or have any fliers left on my car?
Then we are good. I stop bashing you for your ridiculous beliefs.
I mean "faith."
I can't promise you that my friend - but I can assure you that it won't be from me. We don't do fliers or bells. Many have called us boring. I often get irritated as well, however, I have come to integrate it into my thought to view it as a celebration of our varied beliefs and thoughts. It still causes migranes at time though.
If only all religious people were like you; this world would be a much safer, peaceful place.
goldenpath, isn't "live and let live" contrary to some fundamental Christian beliefs?
Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 1:14-16; Matthew 4:18-22; John 14:6 just to name a few pointing to that fact.
I ain't goldenpath, but I concur.
Add Matthew 10: 34 to that list.
...There are many places where the Bible seems to contradict itself, but it really doesn't.
It says if possible to be at peace with all men. But there's also those other verses that challenge us to be strong and fervent and biased toward the Word.
There are times when peace is not possible, especially when the Word as a whole needs defended and spread.
Does it scare you that much?
Wow! I would have thought jesus would have held your hand (or whatever) to tide you over. No?
Oh my GAWWDDD....You are killing us!! LOL
I do agree with the original post which is basically:
"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??!!" (btw: if someone can tell me the keyboard combo which makes the actual laughing face thaaaattt'dddd beee greeeeaaatttt cuz I really don't know that and I'm a freaking programmer)
Hey stimp put lol in between two :
:LOL: like that but not in caps
go to formatiing tips when you are posting, it will tell you how to make all kinds faces
And I absolutely swear that I will quit eating pizza and drinking beer if everyone else does.
And I absolutely love pizza with my beer.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, AEvans.
To all others, lol, and you KNOW who you are: doom, gloom, destruction, cataclysmic events and there is no escaping it, OR hellfire and damnation, and may God have pity on your soul. So why don't you buck up and find someone to be nasty-ish to? (Both sides of the aisle...haha, if I have to spell that out.)
Are you talking to me? Are..you..talking.. to.. me? I know you're not talking to me! Are you talking to me?
Since you basically "came out" (oh, don't take that literally, Sneako), I see you as too joking and jolly (eh, even if you are a silly Republican) to be talking to you in the above.
So Happy Thanksgiving. Hey...I've got the flu (could it be...the SWINE flu!? oh my), but Happy Thanksgiving, anyway, .
I'M TALKING TO YOU!!! Happy Thanksgiving Sneak, AEvans, Lita.
Religion or the lack thereof is a personal choice. Don't push it on me, I won't push it on you.
There are many things that Mark says and a few statements that Cagsil Yes even Cagsil says that has some truth in his posts. I could go on and on with that this analogy.
If the people on the far left really listened to everything that the people on the far right were saying and vice versa. "IF" there were as much listening as there are "telling" the discussions would not turn argumentative. The middle of the road is quite comfortable and I think not so far from the truth.
you get sick from many things . the 2 you mentioned tho are not on that list i think
FAITH---the ability to trust or rely on things that you cannot prove or see.
only possible definition
And I must say that there is no arguing about that
I would think it is more like the ability to let whatever happens, happen and still be able to handle it positivity.
In other words, I don't know if tragedy will come my way tomorrow or how I will deal with it. I just believe that I will get through it and I will handle it to the best of my ability.
It's a strength that is not defined but comes from believing or having faith that whatever it is, it will always be okay.
Maybe some cannot find their strength alone and need help, encouragement, an external source... an external god. Some can conjure up that well needed strength... their inner god.
No one knows what algorithms life goes by, but most know that at some point something you really don't like will come your way and how we deal with is... well....
oh yes. Girls play all right.
But tyhey care not to leave behind
some centuries old rhymes
Girls are descreet.
You have to believe into something. I believe into a chocolate cake. It helps me thru the day very often...
Might even be a good idea not to have a Religious Forum at all - it would keep a lot of people quiet.
Oh my. Why would you join this hub Miss Pinkett? I love you!
How will anyone ever grow up if they can't work through their handicaps
oh my so why another thread?
really, can't we be adults here and get along. do all of our friends believe the same way, of course not.
I knoooow. We need like a new religious war here. Hmmmm...how about Satanists versus Muslims?
Should be interesting.
Actually this forum is called "Life Philosophies & Beliefs Forum" so how come it's been taken over by Atheists and Christians?
My Life Philosophy is:
Love the life you live and live de life you love.
My Motto is: IIWII = It Is What It Is. If someone doesn't agree with a situation or my thoughts....well, it is what it is, I can't change it and life is too short to spend my time trying to get others to go with every livin' thing I believe in. Lets face it, folks, you can talk till you are blue in the face but you will never sway someone from their beliefs. so, accept it or move on. IIWII
I like that: It is what it is as long as life phylosophies are flexible, can change over time.
So if we could replace the word "belief" with "phylosophy" in the abbreviation of the forum title, maybe the thread would no longer attract so many atheists and christians?
Very good life philosophy! I am a Christian but I do not want to fight about it!
I have two quotes:
You live the life you choose to live. (Very similar to yours)
I'm fond of "Don't Panic" but then I keep lint in my pocket and travel with a towel.
Is your hard drive named Deep Thought?
Earth: Mostly Harmless
Psychic? You frighten me! I also believe there are mice running about inside the desktop.
Save the rhinos!
I am Mentok (ooEEoo)
Do not be frightened. It was a wild stab in the dark.
I carry a giant oversized beach towel in my truck when I'm driving out of town. It sops up spills, and it's big enough to double as a blanket.
(apology to OP for going off topic )
realy , the word philosophy when broken down is , philo - life and sophy- the study of . how could you study life without the knowledge of God . the creator of all life ..
if we don't have a beginning or and end . what would the knowledge of living be .it would be like coming in at the middle of a move and leaving before the end and writting a review on the movie .. oldcaptfrank...
God, the creator of all life? Who's that?
Today, my life pylosophy is: Love and let live. What's yours?
Philosophy is Greek and actually the shortened word.
philosophia is the Original found in authenticated documents of the first century.
One of the most damaging things to occur through out history has been the corruption of words.
Your Philosophia is wonderful and will hopefully spread to others...peace...
That's the point, both do the same things and think, lemme just tackle this down for sake of 'the people'...
I wonder if they ever consider there are other people.
It's interesting and it can work. A couple months ago I was invited to be a part of our local Ministerial Association. This blew me away! For decades we, my practicing faith, were hardly allowed at the door of such an institution. Since then I have become a contributing friend of the clergy for the Catholic, Baptist, First Christian, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Assembly of God, Congregational and the Community of Christ churches. They are still curious and cautious of me but at least steps have been taken. Now, if clergy from all these different faiths can find common ground that being service to the communities as a whole then surely we as online users can as well. If not then we have got a serious problem. The journey toward understanding is truly amazing.
I appreciate your efforts in merging a few Western religions. It may be a step in the right direction. But you forgot the muslims, the jews, the mandarins...etc.
The point the Original Post was making is that this forum has been taken over by christians and atheists. Probably due to the fact that the majority of hubbers are American, Canadian, Australian and English, or South African. All of which are predominantly christian or atheist. What about the rest of the world? What about non-religious phylosophies of life?
I admit my wording may seem different at times and may be taken out of context, however, I have read my comment and see no other way to take it except the way it was meant. I am not trying to combine religions. I simply stated that after decades of discrimination our faith has been allowed into the Ministerial Association which is a group of clergy with common projects to benefit the area communities. I have nothing against any faith or belief system of man. Variety is a good thing. Please don't put me against the ropes of the ring when I make a completely harmless comment intended to arouse hope and a positive attitude. I am sorry if you misunderstood my comments. It is good when multiple faiths are willing to put details aside and work together. I am happy!
Hi Goldenpath. Hopefully you will see how wrong this is, and get the word out to your fellow Christians to speak out against this dangerous man:
The Brooklyn Archdiocese in New York City just declared a Crusade against the gay people of this Country. They say gay people are a THREAT to marriage and we would destroy marriage if we are allowed to marry. Now that they have the Church’s Blessing; attacks on gay people will rise ten fold. A priest went on NY1; the City’s most watch news station tonight, and he declared his Crusade against people that just want to live a fair and decent life. Why would he do this? And why would NY1 put something this dangerous on the air?
Now that is horrible!! There also some sick individuals in this world that will attack and prey on innocent human beings that is insane.
This is true and goes to further demonstrate by what spirit or mindset (for non-christians) they operate their lives and use to influence others. I testify will all my being that there is a gound in which we can all live, pursue happiness and prosperity and put forth civility one to another. I truly believe it is all derived from the walls of pride we build up around ourselves to "protect" us when we feel offended, condescended or belittled.
The short answer: Homophobia/fear they may have gay 'tendencies.' Seriously. Do you ever hear of women spouting off about gay people like men do? Huh-uh.
I'll bet Andrew Sullivan is all over this.
I am far too busy to watch television so I apologize for my ignorance to this New York attack. I have my own views of same-sex marriage that I will not go into here. This forum was not designed for it. I will say that in NO instance will attacking an individual or a group that is not a mortal threat to you (countries at war) effectively succor the desired result nor will it ultimately gain you any favor with the populous. It is never in keeping with the spirit of peace (spirit of "peace" as to not offend any Christians, Atheists or any other "ians" or "ists"). I support your right to prosper and pursue happiness in this life. All my hopes that you may achieve such.
I don't know, every once in awhile I enjoy a good fight. I have learned a lot in this place to tell ya the truth. No winners except for the ones who thrive on it I suppose. Keep it up and maybe in time y'all go the way of the dinosaurs.
If you want a forum about spirituality but you don't want christians and atheists there, just start one.
Say at the beginning that you don't want any fighting.
If people jump in at the end and don't realize that you don't want fighting, just say so.
People will respect that.
Beliefs are formed by what we have learned to perceive as the truth, and many are willing to fight to keep their truth intact.
To hear the atheist and christian banter you would think both sides are fighting to prevent their co-believers from being recruited by the other side. If this weren't the case, then why all the fuss?
I know ... I know ... both sides are tired of the lies. Okay, let's say I buy that fish from you ... which I won't, as it's a lie both sides tell themselves and believe.
If you are just tired of the lies then why not just ignore them? After all, they are lies to you, so how could they possibly have any sway unless you are uncertain of your own beliefs?
And if you are strong in your own beliefs and worry over others being misguided, then you are considering the others around you too weak to resist, and see your own crusade as a fight to protect their belief (which happens to be the same as you).
As such, by protecting those that think like yourself from the lies of those who think differently you keep your belief alive by keeping its fanbase alive.
None of us want to confess to this behavior and many will downright deny it and demand proof ... but all I am saying is that you are comfortable around people who think like you do and uncomfortable around those who don't ... so you want to keep your group untouched, as they add strength to your belief by sharing it.
Consider this ... evolution vs. creationism ... stave the arguments and just go with it a second ... I'll be fair and take this to both tables.
Let's say an evolutionist comes up with something that flat out proves creationism is a lie and every creationist but you buys into it? Now, you are left as the only one who believes in creationism ... Alone with your beliefs, how would you feel?
Now, turn the tables. Creationism comes up with something that totally disproves evolution and all of the evolutionists except you convert over. Alone ... again ... How would that make you feel?
As human beings we all try to fit into a niche and we feel threatened when that niche is threatened. Case in point ... the statement that blond women are all idiots (I don't buy this one, but it's a stereotype that has been overplayed).
Now, who gets the most angered over this one? Intelligent blond women, of course, as their existence obviously proves this statement to be untrue.
However, this does not mean one can't dig up some women who are blond and lack smarticles ... for that matter, we could dig up blond men, redhead men and women, etc, that fit the mold. Why do we pick on blonds? It really doesn't matter. Fact is, if you attack this group, they will angrily respond. This is human nature.
Even I played the game, defending evolution to the hilt, until I had a revelation ...
If person A believes evolution is a lie, does that make it untrue for me? Nope! Do I need to convert person A to my belief to believe it myself? Nope! Do I need to stop person A from converting others? Nope!
My belief is safe so long as I chose to keep believing it. If I wind up wrong someday then that mistake only reflects on me as I am no longer preaching evolution. I believe in it for myself and allow others to believe as they chose to believe.
I don't need person A to change their view to confirm mine. In fact, I need person A to believe differently to give my view substance. For if there is no oppositional view then there is no longer a need for scientists to continue their efforts to prove my viewpoint conclusively.
And what if it is actually *disproved* some day. Well ... if they scientist that I hold in high regard some day all shake their heads and say evolution was wrong then I will have to accept it.
Same goes for creationism ... If God comes down from a mountain one day and says he never created the Earth then christians would have to accept it. I'm not saying that would ever happen - just citing that no christian would refute the word of God if it were given.
So, if it is pointless to argue our beliefs then why bother having a religion forum? My thoughts? As a check and balance ...
If someone says something in the religious forum that makes you stop and ponder your beliefs for a moment then that reexamination makes the whole forum worthwhile.
Please note, reexamination does not equate to changing one's beliefs ... it equates to looking at them deeply to see if your beliefs are sound. In some cases, a reexamination can strengthen your beliefs ... in others, it can cause you to consider joining the other team.
Regardless, arguments neither bolster nor deny one's beliefs. It's those calmly offered statements that jolt the gears ...
Such as ... Isn't it odd that evolved species live today beside creatures they evolved from? and ... Why would God save the dinosaurs from the great flood and change the Earth in such a dramatic way to make them become extinct?
Now ... I'm not asking for answers from either side as I have already heard logical reasoning given for both questions. The point is that there are many unanswered questions that lead to explanations ... and those create more questions.
Both atheists and religionists constantly question things, but atheists question the world around them while religionists question the spirit within.
Which spends their time more wisely? I'm afraid one would have to pass to the other side for a few years and return if we are ever to get any certain answers, but I don't see that ever happening.
So, we chose to argue to secure our beliefs and we tell ourselves otherwise we lie to ourselves - not others - as one who is secure in their beliefs has nothing to argue over as their belief can't be swayed and they don't need others to believe to keep their belief alive.
The Flat Earth Theory is my favorite gift to prove my point, as both atheists and religionists today believe that the world is round, and yet, there was a time that both groups believed it to be flat.
The flat Earthers and the round Earthers fought and fought, each unable to fully disprove each other, until finally, one day the debate was resolved thoroughly for both sides.
'I'm right and you're wrong' couldn't end the debate ... it took substantial physical proof for all to accept the truth and now the rest of us accept it without the need to prove it to ourselves anymore.
It all sounds so silly, but there were hundreds of reasons given that the world *must* be flat and the round Earth theory was given to be desperate and full of holes.
The greatest scientists of the ancient world had proven the Earth to be flat and that the sun revolved around the Earth, so how could they be proven wrong?
Thankfully, modern man continues to question and confirm everything it possibly can. As such, many more truths will be discovered as our lineage goes on, and until then, we won't know what those truths will be.
As such, unless we are the ones out there in the field making the discoveries ourselves then it is best we believe what we believe and allow others to do the same ... as not one of us is arguing with facts we have accumulated ourselves. Instead, we are backing up our views with the research of others, which we believe to be true as their research fits in with our beliefs.
Who here spoke to Moses personally? Who here saw a live T-Rex? Yes, we have the Bible which contains the words of Moses and we have the bones of T-Rex that say it lived. But do we have more than that?
Sadly, we as common folk do not ... Beyond what we are told we only have our choice in what we will believe in ... and anything an individual chooses to believe is undeniable truth to that particular individual.
And so ... if Mark wants to believe in evolution, then I stand by his right to do so. And if Thetruthhurts wants to believe in creationism then I back up his right. I even back up the right of those who want to believe in a young Earth.
All I ask ... allow me to keep my beliefs and don't call them lies. Say my facts don't add up or that you can refute them ... but beliefs are not lies, so long as I speak of them from my own mouth to express what I believe ... as they are not lies to me.
In return, I will offer the same respect.
Y'know I'd taken a huge interest in the flat earthers and found out that historically no one really thought the earth was flat. They felt it was curved or domed but they did think it had an edge. Which now they think that edge is the south pole I believe. In the middle of their model is the north pole and all about the edge is the south pole. The sun is like 33 miles above us.
I also found that many of the flat earthers are scientists playing games on you and they like to use the flat earth reasoning to challenge scientific minds to explore how and why we know the earth isn't flat. I don't think using the pictures taken by spaceships or satellites counts.
It's sad though that some people can not be taken out of their false beliefs when reasoned with. It isn't a matter of faith sometimes. They also tend to beleive Elvis is still alive, that we've never been on the moon or that the CIA is responsible for 9/11.
Makes for an interesting world sometimes, I guess.
Christians means Christ ones, our main purpose in this existence is to witness to the world about our Lord and Savior. I know some christians can be forceful, uncaring, and selfish, but this is not the way of a true christian. We are to be like our Savior, He says, "With Lovingkindess I have drawn you. We are suppose to be just like that, we are to showw love and respect, I'm sorry that some of my fellow christians are like that, that is not the right way to witness. You are right everyone have the right to be and do what they want, we all have free will. But as a christian I am to tell people about Christ, but I will not hound, or try to force my beliefs on anyone.
I just ignore everyone. Tell them, pay your own bills, stay in your own yard. But they always want to come over to my place because I play the guitar & sing & they are bored. Then they start talking to me about stuff, and I look at them.
And I keep playing the guitar & singing while they yammer on about stuff. So I run through blues songs, Chuck Berry, Elvis, The Beatles, Stones, Dylan, the Traveling Wilbury's, Tom Petty, play songs I have wrote. Make up song right there on the spot while they yammer on & bore me with their Yammering.
There you sit talking to me
Yammering on about everything
Don't you know I've had this conversation before
Before I even stepped out the door
The planet goes around the human race aboard
You shop at Walmart if you poor
The electric bill it do come in
Every month over & over again
The rich get richer & I the poor get poorer
Check to make sure your roomate isn't a snorer
You better understand my Tipi
All I am is a fun Nazi
Is everyone having fun now Is everyone having fun now
Is everyone having fun now Is everyone having fun now
Knock knock Neo.
Just another day closer to being dead & gone from Caesar's Matrix
Send the atheists and liberals to Canada! Problem solved! Next problem!
Can you change a destination to Mexico? It's too cold in Canada. Pretty please?
You two can stay as long as Cole bakes some serious brownies and Misha brings some of those little dolls inside of dolls.
Ps- I know that might be sexist Cole so if you don't like it bite me!
Thanks Sneako. Do you mean me under Cole's skirt when you mentioned dolls inside of dolls? That's easy.
I'm not a brownie fan. I like cookies though. And I would never bite you. I don't fancy having to go to the hospital and be under observation for contracting something.
I don't think stupid is contageous and cookies are awesome!
Believe nothing merely because you have been told it.
Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher.
But whatever, after due examination and analysis,
you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -
that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
The FSM is only a feeble wannabe copy of the true Intelligent One.
The FSM is a parody of the concept of "the unknown God" found in Scripture, the one Paul finds the Greeks worshipping in Acts 17.....
I think the problem is labels. One bad Atheist makes all followers of Atheism look bad. The same goes for Christians. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, but I am ashamed of people who call themselves Christians and then go and murder abortion doctors. Also, the crusades are probably the biggest black eye on Christians in all of history. Oh, to have some of the knowledge that was lost at Alexandria.
Another thought: I don't go around telling little children that Santa isn't real. Maybe it helps them to believe in Santa at this point in their life. That doesn't mean I have to believe in Santa to get along with them.
Many Christians need to start practicing what they preach and try loving everyone (including Atheists) instead of picking fights with them.
I personally get tired on absolutists on both sides. The All or Nothing style of faith. But this tends to be the majority opinion since people want answers. My take there are no absolutel answers which tends to make me very unpopular in some circles. To be fair some of the most liberal and sincerely good people I have ever known were also good Christians.
And there have been a few bad ones as well ( mean spirited and judging everyone who isn't them). Same with atheists . My Uncle was an atheist and narrow minded bigot as well. (Hated Gays, and other minorities as well). He was also extreme in his atheist views. As a flexible agnostic I find it hard to have a middle ground and keep it.
Another black mark that makes Christians look bad. There are currently Muslims that commit atrocities in the name of Allah, yet we don't hate all Muslims.
I think it's ironic that the darkest time in human history was when the Christian church was the most powerful. Not exactly letting their light shine were they?
The Inquisition was done by the Catholic Church as were the Crusades. There were some really bad Popes in the history of the Catholic Church as there were some good ones also. Not all Christians were supportive of it.
How many Baptists helped in the Inquisition? Pentecostals? I think you can see my point.
I agree with the first part of your comment. One makes all seem bad.
I am going to address the Crusades. The Crusades were actually done by the Catholic Church. They did not include all christians or even any other sects of Christians. Did you know that the crusades were not only carrie dout against Mulsims but also that the crusaders killed many Jews and Christians in their battles?
I agree with that..
Earnest, we think on similar terms;
we're just on opposite "sides".
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