Self-Growth Vs. Selfless View?

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   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   Dear Hubbers,
   
   I recently published a Hub answering this singular debate, so as to rest the argument that 'religion' puts forth of a "Selfless" view about Life Versus an Individual's ability for "Self-Growth", and the damaging effects and moral problem that come from choosing wrongly.
   
   This isn't a joke and I'm not directly attacking religion, per se, but it's important you REALIZE the truth about life and your specific role in life, even if you don't see it yourself.
   
   With that said- I'm not self-promoting, because I'm not providing a link to my Hub, but I do want to get people's opinion, thoughts or feelings.
   
   If you don't want to read my Hub, then don't. You are not required to leave a comment here or to even ask questions.
   
   Let's talk about it. Let me hear what you have to say about it.
   
   Thank you for your time.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

   Go to church meet the people there and learn what really motivates them. Open your mind to all the possiblities. Watch the families, the parents and the children and you'll know why we are here in the first place. It's not about sex or any thing other than love within families. It's very simple but first you have to put your pride away and really see.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You do realize, that you're faith in god, putting your pride away and believing selfless is not in your nature?
      
      You are actually going against your own nature of life.

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   h.a.borcichposted 14 years ago

   Hi cagsil,
   
     I read the hub, actually I have read many of your hubs. And I like how you put much thought and effort into them. They are definately not shallow or "fluffy".
   
     I may not agree with you, but I do enjoy reading your perspective. No two people are in exactly the same place in life when you factor in cultural and other differences. But if we cannot be open to understanding where another person is on their journey, then we miss a big opportunity to understand our fellow man and ourselves.
   
     Personally, I have kept my beliefs to myself in self defense. I am nearing the end of my journey in this life. Being sure of my values and having no regrets is a priority and I see little to be gained in taking a beating as I go. My beliefs guide me and I am ok with that.
   
     I'll keep reading your hubs - they are good to chew on, and I mean that in a good way. holly

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for your kind comments about my hubs and I'm glad that they make you think. It is the most important thing I can do for humanity, as a whole. To get people to use their mind, the way they are capable is my reasoning for discussing this particular view.
      
      Because, in all rational existence of mankind, much of the information I am sharing with people, has been purposely hidden away from people, so as to get them to be selfless and not to be self-growth.
      
      Self-growth is so important, so much more than being selfless. Even a selfish person can be selfless. They can be self-interested in gaining prosperity and happiness for themselves, but their actions help other people to better their lives'.
      
      It's important to understand LIFE in general, and for many this is a challenge, because they've never been told the truth about their life. I'm glad you to see that you have yourself prepared for your end of life and are not willing to change, because you believe your beliefs are for you to be guided by.
      
      And, that part in itself isn't correct, if the belief is based on untruths or a lie. The foundation for which you built your beliefs have no basis, which is a fundamental wrong of life. I'm not judging about your beliefs, but trying to get you to understand the underlying problem, which has lead you to believing like you do.
      
      I can not change your beliefs or your faith, and it is beyond my capabilities to do so, but I do want to spread knowledge I've learned, so you can have a better understanding of your own life. But, thank you and keep reading. You'll probably eventually break through to the truth. I can only point you in the direction, as I know it to be.

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         prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Cagsil, who knows the truth anyway, do we have to use always our reasons, our minds? why not use your heart...and believe so that you can learn more, or you learn more before you believe, what if your mind is close?

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Hey PDH, as much as I adore you dear...it is precisely my point. It is people's lack of using their mind that is the problem, because many are not learning as they are suppose to because they are leading with their own heart to seek guidance, which is self-defeating in reality of life.
            
            Life is meant to be lived, guided by you and your thoughts, shown to the world, through your actions. As long as you are honest with yourself and the people you deal with, then you will have love in your heart and for others.
            
            The MIND has to come first.

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               prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               well, thats your opinion my dear CAGSIL, I always use my heart first, I believe first then I learn more, then I can use my mind afterwards....not the other way around, life is not a big scientific research for me, love you CAGS!!

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                  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't understand this line of reasoning. Are you saying you accept ideas before thinking about them? If you haven't thought about them, how can you accept them?

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                     prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     you see, I believe first that for example there is a GOD because that whats my heart is telling me, because of guts or intuition, then I learn more of him because I accept him, then I can apply his teachings  to my life...

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        But, the topic isn't about GOD or his will even. It is about being selfless or self-growth. It's obvious, that you are on the side of being selfless and that's the exact reason for why you are where you are in your life and not where you should be.
                        
                        Please, try to understand, your belief in 'god' is actually destroying your life and not making it better. It's unfortunate, but is the truth of the matter, as seen thru my writing.
                        
                        You live your life in reality, but you believe in something that doesn't exist in reality. And, NO, reality is not subjective to one's own perspective, because reality exists free of independent thoughts, desires, will or wishes. Reality is all knowable.
                        
                        With that said- GOD and Religion want people to be selfless, to give up their pride, give up their free will to think for themselves, all for a higher cause. How ever, human consciousness is THE highest cause for humans. Self-growth is a requirement for prosperity and happiness in life. Anything else is an illusion, foistered by those who are in power, so they can reap the benefits they want and be able to control the people below them. It's honestly a hoax that needs to be exposed, so the human race can step into the next stage of evolution.

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                        (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        But, what you're essentially saying is that you believe first, then you inquire. That is the exact opposite to reason.
                        
                        
                        
                        Then, you most likely will accept anything your heart desires and will look for anything to support your beliefs in what your heart desires.
                        
                        In science, we call that Pseudoscience.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm sorry to disappoint you PDH- but it's NOT my opinion. It's proven fact. The problem is NO ONE has been told. Therefore, you do as you do, and not as you should.
                  
                  I'm not doubting, but to be honest- you believing first, then you learn more later, is against your own nature as a woman. I'm sorry to point that out, but it's the truth of the matter. Even, if you don't think.

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               h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Precisely. I am taking inventory of my mark on this world, all of what I stood for and how I did it. There is a huge peace in the honesty to myself and those shared parts of the journey with me. What is in your heart is really all you can take with you, isn't it?
               
               My path is the only one I can speak for in terms of selfless &/or selfgrowth...
               
               To say the least, I think my journey has been quite the ride. From my bulletproof teens and twenties right up to now. My perceptions of life and personal value system has "become" through the years. What I have found interesting is that the more I have grown as a person, the more selfless I have become. At the end of the day the questions I ask myself have everything to do with the needs of others. And if my sense of God helps me joyfully do that - who is harmed? Have I failed? Is that self growth or is it selfless? And does it matter?

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You can't even take that with you, because when you die, then you're dead. That's a fact of life. Whether not, you believe in life-after death or an after-life, is just a fantasy created by man who created religion.
                  
                  Selfless versus Self-growth is what matters most. Self-growth has been purposely eliminated from an individual's mind, because of religion and it's pathetic doctrines, for which I do have experience with. I've put the effort into each doctrine and that is precisely what lead me to learn- GOD doesn't exist.
                  
                  You, obviously are NOT a part of the religious establishment, but still believe. That would mean that you only follow along whatever path you see fit.
                  
                  This by definition is SELF-GROWTH and selfless. Hmm....what a revelation.

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            (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The heart pumps blood. We usually only use our minds to think.
            
            A closed mind doesn't entertain possibilities, let alone accept or reject them.

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   lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago

   I need to be challenged to think in different ways.  It keeps life interesting.  The problem is I don't do it often enough because I seem to need to be reminded.  If I could only stop and think about many things more often, so much would be diferent  Thanks Cag's

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Lyricsingray. Greatly appreciate your view. You're welcome.

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   rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

   haven't we heard so many times through life that we do not even come close to using the inherent potential that each of us have within us? I think all life is about evolving, growing, changing, we never stop being who we are, but we sure do limit it when we allow a belief to confine us.
   
   I think most people want to live to their fullest, but we allow our own self or society to constrain us.
   we grow from the inside to break through the surface and continue our growth, where we do need each other.   my thoughts...

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   SirDentposted 14 years ago

   First off, I didn't read your hub. I am not sure if I have read any of your hubs, but I will when time permits.
   
   A couple of weeks ago my church had a clothing giveaway. They asked for all clothes that you do no wear or want but are in good condition. Anyone who came in was allowed to pick out what they wanted without paying. It was all free. In addition, everyone who came there was fed, for free. This was a selfless act. At the same time, it was also growth for those who participated by giving clothes, cooking the food etc. . .
   
   Now to me. both go hand in hand. A person can be selfless and still grow. A person cannot be selfless and not grow.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Unfortunately, the effects on your life are different from being completely selfless and growing, than self-growth.
      
      Self-growth is more productive to society as a whole. A selfless person, will eventually become a selfish person, if they stick true to doctrine, as expected. A person will strive so hard to understand what it be means to be selfless that they turn out to be selfish.
      
      It's funny how that works. Self-growth is all about adding knowledge, so you can provide better for yourself. If you create a purpose for your life, like you are suppose to(not allowing for anyone else to do it either) build your character, self-worth, and when your purpose is honest toward helping others(a selfless action), then it's better for your well-being overall.
      
      To live a Selfless life, isn't as good as Self-Growth. It actually does more harm than necessary.
      
      Please, whatever you do SirDent, I understand your position, but I ask you to leave your skepticism at the door, when you read that hub. The way I've written the Hub, clearly points out which is better. There isn't a debate about it. It's facts, as we know it.

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         SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well, I will leave you to it. I merely gave my opinion.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you for stopping by. Greatly appreciated.

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   vveaseyposted 14 years ago

   Hello
   didn't read the hub but am responding to the concept of being selfless. It's not possible to be selfless. If you had no sense of self (selfless) you wouldn't know anything or be capable of judging anything or have any sense of values.
   
   In order to do that there has to be  a sense of self that's different from others sense of self and from things that are seen as not one's self so you can choose between values.
   
   If you never develop a sense of self you would be an animal. And there would be no need for rules of morality or social conduct, as there isn't in the animal and insect kingdoms. The strongest and the biggest dominate without any sense of guilt or wrong-doing. But there are individual selves and each self is considered valuable, so social rules are created to protect that value.
   
   Religions that require selflessness are contradictory because  without a sense of self, how can you act in selfless way? You need a sense of self to be able to comprehend the concept of selflessness and act in that way.
   
   Even when you're acting in a "selfless" way, you still have to have some sense of self that's not involved in your selfless act in order to be able to act that way.
   
   I could go on and on but I think you get the picture.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting thought you present, but believe it or not...
      
      There is more too it than that. But, thank you for your input.

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   kessposted 14 years ago

   If Self growth is achieved by doing for others the things you would like for yourself.
   
   Then By doing so you are actually adding to the growth of others and the sum total of All Goodness (God) 
   
   If "self growth" means adding to yourself by taking away from others, then it is pure selfishness  and actually subtract from the sum total of all goodness.
   
   If selfgrowth means doing for others in proportion as they do to you, then where is the growth for we all are even and have not added to goodness at all.
   
   Though Goodness is unlimited we  cannot just add Goodness to ourselves without the help of other, namely helping others.
   
   So therefore Casgil, tell me what is self growth as compared to goodness?

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