New American Standard Version
vs1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
vs2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
vs3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; vs4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.
vs5 Wherefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience sake." vs6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. vs7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
Sounds like a government God to me.
Yes it does, and He IS a government God.
He instituted powers and authorities. Submitting to the government is not a bad thing. If you live within the laws of the land, you will fare well. Don't you live within your country's laws?
I think you might have your terminology confused.
God is for government, but government is NOT god.
lol Do you submit and worship all of your politicians as well as God? Do you think laws are divine? Did God tell you not to text while driving? I think you have your belief confused. lol God is government, but government is not God? Wouldn't that make them the same thing.
What's a government God, I ask again?
And, by the way, if the federal gov't legalized marijuana, gay marriage, and abortion (I guess it has legalized the last thing, not that I'm a great fan of that, but anyway...), I take it you have to go along with it. Is that the implication here???
Look, I know Bible-believing Christians do not accept the three examples I just gave, and indeed I *defend* your right to do so: I don't agree with you, but as soon as you shut up just because your government has said "x" is ok, then we should all pack our bags and move to Saudi Arabia, where women aren't allowed to drive...
"Give Ceaser what is Ceasers, and give me what is mine."
Here's a question? Are you a Christian first, or an American? Let me put it another way: do you love your church or the freedom America has given you more?
You are among the blessed. But I don't mean that in the religious way.
I mean that you are among a very few people in the world that has had the power to disagree with, and boot out, their own government.
This is a sacred trust, a privilege, a piece of gold Americans (and others) fought for on the beaches of Normandy.
Never, never, never let a church, a preacher or a religion persuade you out of this: you should kiss the American ground you walk on, and praise it for giving you the right to DISOBEY the government: In Iran, in the Soviet Union, you would disappear in the night for that!!!
Comparing my freedom to anothers freedom goes away from the point. Yes, we have much more freedom in the US compared to other governments. This doesn't mean I will agree with the lying government. I will kiss the ground that our military walks on. I won't kiss the ground that dirty politicians walk on.
Yes, the Christian view is that all government is under God. There is no such thing as a truly "secular" government. It is secular only in the sense that it regulates mundane matters, buying & selling, regular crimes. But, the Christian teaching is that God is equally "over" the government as he is over the church. There is no place, save the heart that rejects him, where he does not govern.
What about the Taliban? What about Hitler? What about Stalin? What about this Iranian jerk-off (if you'll pardon my language)?
All examples of people who abuse their authority and have "lorded it harshly" over the people. Nowhere does the Bible say human governments have absolute authority. Rather, governments are required in the Bible to govern justly and wisely, and to abandon oppression.
Like we supposedly had enlightened societies.
Yeeeeaaaahhh. Some common sense. Whew. Maybe I won't have to buy that toupee after all...
Valerie always seems to kick in a voice of reason. Dang her and her good logic!
lol Please do this for me. Name me "1" government since the beginning of time that has governed "justly" and "fairly".
Does the bible govern justly and fairly? Please say yes.
Why did you work for the government if you are so against it.?
Minimal government is needed to prevent chaos. If you seen the lies from inside that the government tells, you would be against it too. But, you are blissful, believe everything the government say's. I don't think it's very funny for the bible to decieve people simply to govern them.
I am a poet, not really interested in governments, too crooked a field for me. Would love it if they were no imaginary lines or wars.
I think even if there was no need for wars, government would create them. There is too much opportunity for money and control through wars. Money and control is why governments exist to begin with.
Should you render unto Caesar, etc, if your government is a totalitarian Communist government under Marshall Stalin, or the Nazis, or the Taliban?
If you will notice that passage, it says that the ruling authorities are God's "servants." Therefore, they are expected to act as such. They are not "in the stead of God." Rather, they are expected to act toward the public good ("for he is the minister of God to thee for good.").
While there is disagreement among Christians as to how far a believer is to cooperate with a tyrannical government, there is little disagreement that if that government asks us personally to do something immoral or unethical, we refuse.
If government passes the healthcare making you pay taxes to support abortion, are you going to refuse to pay taxes?
No. My moral obligation ends with paying the taxes. I'll pay them even though I do not sanction their use. If I'm paying under coercion, my moral obligation ends with the payment. I'm not responsible for how the funds are used after payment. BTW, this is not just under the health care plan; even today government money goes to supporting abortion.
That's pretty funny. Especially considering Jesus preached against the government and Moses's laws. Make up your mind. Is the bible for or against. lol
One of the many contradictions.
Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God what is Gods...(this is another quote)
Yep. Christianity, at least in Rome and then in England in another time period was a state religion. Maybe to some extent it still is in the USA.
In Australia and in France people are fighting to keep state and religion as two separate entities.
Worship how you like as long as you are a good law abiding citizen. In virtually all places of work in Australia no one gives a damn what religion you are as long as you are a good worker. I like things that way. My take at any rate.
Hi Marine interesting question.
The government is an established authority usually for the good of all.
For it is established and kept by a law, which again is usually for the good of all.
But like with all law there must be the "or else". Or we may say the penalty to pay when broken.
And again the law is strict for it does not concern itself with the circumstances by which it may be broken, but only the fact that it is broken.
We know that a law may broken for the greater good and others keep it for greater evil.
Therefore by keeping laws a man evil work can be justified, and good works condemned.
So by faith ( knowledge of truth for the situation) in God,
Your conscience is justified whether you keep the law or break it.
For now you are trusting the higher authority of God, instead of the lower authority of the government.
Though normal circumstance will lead you keep the law for it minister good, Thus honor God through the goverment.
Even the mention of religion in government is a scary thought for me. All Americans have to accept that religion has a huge say in government, simply because if you are not a god botherer you will not gain office! Crazy!
Either way, disobey your government when you think it is wrong. Is that such a bad thing!!!!!
ehhh, unfortunately or fortunately (depending on your perspective) majority rules in the United States. The reason "God-worshipers" and/or Christians are in office is because the majority of Americans believe in God and/or are Christians.
Frankly, so be it. I mean, democracy's not perfect. But it's certainly better than a police state...
Where is all the faithful who argued me their bible is divine and not government?
I do not believe that a government is divine, nor do I believe any human institution is divine, including the church. But, governments do have a divine task--punishing the wicked and protecting the innocent, for example. This would be why I would, like Locke, oppose any notion of a Divine Right of Kings.
The Bible portrays those in authority as "servants." In a democratic society, power is to be granted, not taken. No one is "entitled" to govern; they get to govern as they earn our trust.
How about these passages from Ezekiel?
"Woe to the shepherds of Israel who have been pasturing themselves! Should not shepherds, rather, pasture sheep? You have fed off their mil, worn their wool, and slaughtered their fatlings, but the sheep you have not pastured. You did not strengthn the weak nor heal the sick nor bind up the injured. You did not bring back the lost, but you lorded it over them harshly and brutally." (Ez 34: 2-4)
And then to make matters perfectly clear, there's Ez 45: 9. "Enough, you princes of Israel! Put away violence and oppression, and do what is right and just."
That makes it pretty clear to me that while the Bible says authority comes from God, it's pretty harsh when it comes to those who abuse that authority.
Please keep in mind that man wrote the bible(on hearsay), man translates the bible, man is fallible, man is greedy, and man wants power. If anyone was to ever truely read the original bible(which you can't cause it is in a dead language, and there are books in it that "they" won't let you see) You would not find these verses. In fact you would find more than you bargined for and would then be truely confused about everything you were taught about the bible. Government is NOT GOD nor should Government enforce GOD onto it's people! Sadly this happens throughout history and even more so in todays world.
The bible does not say to worship the bible. The bible is only a record that the prophets kept concerning the messages that they received. We worship God only.
and concerning god telling his people to obey the authority that is over them. That is how people stay out of trouble. Everbody odeys somebody.
No the bible is not the word of any god, just the ramblings of sick controlling minds, nothing new.
Keep spreading your hate speech, Christophoe, the fact is the bible is fact.
As an atheist with some respect for my fellow humans I would like to say that not all atheists are so rude or so lacking in comprehension of the human condition.
You may disagree with many things in the Bible, Earnesthub which is fair enough but it remains one of the great achievements of humanity. The ideas it contains laid the foundations for a pretty remarkable civilization.
As for 'controlling', it has lent itself to democratic values and the support of human rights in a way that almost no other text has. Only the works of Shakespeare can really compare for impact, range, depth and cultural importance.
One thing for sure, few atheists have emerged from non-Christian cultures. Humanism is pretty much Christianity without a belief in the supernatural.
The dumbing down required to get in to religion is an amazing miracle in itself!
No sane rational person is going to believe that a sky fairy will kill them or take away a non existent afterlife if they do something like fart on Wednesday between three and four pm.
It does not make any sense other than to say that it exposes the human condition of the authors, as writing always does.
I think the problem is fundamentalism, not religion. Where does it say, after all, that one has to accept everything in the Bible? I mean, you could even *just* accept the resurrection of Jesus, and his divinity, and nothing else, couldn't you? Aren't you saved by faith in that - accepting his sacrifice on the cross (I mean, I don't believe in these things, at least not exactly, but it's not completely, completely absurd, I guess). But why do I have to believe in Noah, and Cain and Abel, too????
For that matter, couldn't I have faith in Christ and his sacrifice and think Paul was a raving idiot??? I mean, where does it say I have to believe in *Paul* to be saved????
No, as in all things, stick to the basics, and you'll probably do ok -- start to elaborate beyond that, and you could end up in a muddle...
...it's like these freaking terrorist idiots; most Muslims stick to the basics; treat your neighbour basically well, treat your family well, do your duty, believe in the one true God, try and do a bit of praying, and that's about it -- it's only when you get into this silliness that these al Qaeda fools are into that you look like a chump!
And no guy who studied the Bible and claims to be sane and rational would even claim that Christians even believe God is a "sky fairy" who will "kill them or take away a nonexistent afterlife if they do something like fart on Wednesday between three and four pm." Sure, I am capable of recognizing hyperbole. I am also capable of recognizing stubbornness, such as in your refusal to stop claiming we believe in a "sky fairy" when:
1. You know fairies aren't biblical.
2. The fairies of myth, even if they did exist, don't fit God's description.
3. You know believers define God as omnipresent and therefore doesn't exist just in the sky.
4. Therefore Christians, while most definitely believing in God, do not believe in a sky fairy.
I am also capable of recognizing blanket generalizations- in this case the equivalent of carpet bombing with ad hominem attacks and flagrant anti-religious bigotry. You're now basically saying that all religious people are stupid, or that all religions require stupidity.
Guess all religions are to dumb to notice that a lot of their members aren't fulfilling the stupidity requirement.
OK fare enough, I will withdraw sky fairy, and the claim to stupidity also, in light of the fact that indoctrination could take up the slack.
The comparison to a fairy does not seem to be much different to believing in an invisible entity who does a pile of stuff that nobody but the affected party can see or measure.
As for the way I have said my piece, well that is me, so I guess you will have to file me under "outspoken"
From the OT
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
I don't like your god.
I think the difference is that religions have the capacity to be "transformative" ( I would say). So they do or can have value (unlike fairy tales, which are fun, but probably not life-changing ).
But, as I said above, it's a good idea to strip things away so you're left with the good bits. I mean, believing God stopped the sun, believing God ordered ethnic cleansing, these things muddy the waters hugely. But if Jesus is a "form" via which "God" (whatever that may be) can be "experienced" or "communed with", irrespective of the mechanics, that's fine for me as a possible "fact" in some sense.
What I don't get is this insistence on all the rest of it. I mean, as I've suggested already (somewhere...), if St. Paul was a raving, frothing lunatic, I still don't see why you couldn't ignore him and *still* have a *relationship with Christ* (whatever that might be).
Way out of context and misinterpreted. This was not a command to kill people who honestly worshiped other gods. Rather, it addresses people who encourage others to worship idols, knowing full well it's wrong. And then of course, to take the Bible into context, you have to take into consideration every verse, even the ones that on the surface contradict each other.
For instance, John 8:1-5. Nobody denied that what the woman had done was wrong and that her life was, consequently, forfeit. However, no human being was morally qualified to carry out the sentence.
Furthermore, the Talmud has a few things to say about which capital offenses called for literal execution and which only called for a more figurative death sentence. Historic context is good for proper Biblical interpretation. Among those offenses punishable in practice by excommunication rather than by literal execution was... tempting others to sin.
Mmm, Valerie, you're obviously a smart cookie, which is refreshing, because well, as you know... well, I'll say no more...
But I'm not sure I can get on board with everything you say here (surprise! ).
The fact is that God/Ywhwh orders the Israelites/Hebrews to commit acts of ethnic cleansing, and in fact Saul is punished for sparing some people on one occasion. Whether a specific verse is being taken out of context in the example above is not important for me; but the fact there is a pattern of genocidal tendencies seems to me far more worrisome...
I'm not sure what the Talmud has to do with price of fish, because I thought the debate concerned Christianity, but this is not my major concern, in any case, really.
What bothers me, as I have written on another thread, is that I don't see why a person cannot accept Christ into their life (as the expression is phrased), accept his Resurrection (I guess, perhaps), and his sacrifice (if, well, you believe that), and thus be blessed with salvation, and *still* refute some of this humbug. Didn't you refer to C.S. Lewis the other day? I mean, I can't vouch for the truth of this, but another hubber posted that Lewis rejected much of the Bible himself!...
...And that's ok. A friend of mine, who was once pretty devout, used to attend a church called Faith Bible Chapel. When he left, he said to me that it should've been called "Faith IN the Bible Chapel".
In other words, a lot of non-believers would probably be a lot more interested if they didn't have to worry about every little bit of the Gospel of John, but could just be left alone to have a transformative conversion experience involving "the Christ", without being saddled with these extra bits.
The problem is that fundies were probably moderates at some time. It is the hate filled tomes like the quoran and bible that these people use to promote there hate of minorities and each other's religions.
Here is an example from the bible, one of hundreds.
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Not a nice set of beliefs!
I've always said that religion is an outdated form of government....
The politics you get are affected far too much by religion in my view, and probably tin the view of half the rest of the planet.
Your city is SO cool! I was there when the thunderstorms (the one that hit the 17 year old girl ) happened. It is such a beautiful city. St. Kilda beach was so calm and beautiful (despite the dead Jellies). I am seriously going to try to move over there.
Good for you PrOmetheus! Melbourne is without doubt one of the worlds best cities. I welcome you.
Haha, good to hear. Everyone is so nice over there too. It's a complete culture shock from Southern California. Thank god my GF was born in Sydney, should make it easy for me to get in . Plus I'm a techie, and I hear there's a lot of techie jobs over there right now.
All "out of context" I know.
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
If I were Valerie ( ) my strategy would be to say that Christ came to fulfil the law and the prophets, which was a roundabout way of saying you don't have to listen to that stuff anyway -- certainly most Christians I know eat pork!!!!!
Actually, maybe my biblical historical-criticism is off there, but there is no question however that Paul thought the Old Testament was for the birds, more or less, and that one should follow the spirit of the law and not the letter.
Now I am no fan of Paul, generally speaking (though it's been a while...), but this at least works quite well: cos some of that stuff is pretty nutty.
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Jesus was killed himself. So they have no idea who is a false prophet to begin with.
Jesus was a false prophet. He suckered you didn't he?
He is one of my heroes, all the prophets are.
Earnest, you were supposed to skip those parts and jump to the nice parts where Jesus heals the sick. lol
This forum really moved during the night! It is all about controlling the masses! And to do this man uses religon in the way that man wants to, and leaves out the parts he don't want. This has been the case since the beginning and will probably be the case to the end. If one really believes in all the bible says than we should all be stoned to death this day! Government and GOD should not mix in todays world. Look at what happens when it does? The mass genocide that goes on around the world in the name of so and so. It is okay to have morals and beliefs, part of what makes us human, but to use those to control another is just wrong!
You forgot to mention the secular wars of the twentieth century, wars which religion played no part, where reason, not revelation, prevailed. These wars killed millions. The communists, Nazis, and al Qaeda all have in common that they threaten(ed) our way of life. Religion is not the issue. If it were, some of your most religious people, like the Amish and the Quakers, would be the most belligerent. I think most people would say that those sects take their religion very seriously, yet we don't normally hear of them killing and destroying.
Second, it is irrelevant whether or not some pogrom is conducted in the "name of religion." The issue is whether or not that religion teaches those actions. Many things have been done in the name of the Christian God, things that the Bible does not teach (it may record historical actions but that is not the same thing as saying that the Bible condones those actions). Many horrible things have been done in the name of science. But, I don't believe that modern scientists are to be berated for what happened in the name of "Nazi science" for example.
yes, it is a government. people are people, even if it is meant for good, people will always find ways to defy, destroy, manipulate or whatever. humans are naturally evil, after all we are the ones who conceptualize what is good or evil. religion and government blah blah etc those are just like tools, it can be good or evil, logical or illogical. blame the people, not the tools. it is the man behind the gun who kills, not the gun.
and blah blah blah kill yourselves already or get a vasectomy or tubal ligation, let nature take over. Extinction is the Key to Survival http://vice.typepad.com/vice_magazine/2 … -exti.html
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Been grappling with this one for a while now. Can't seem to find a way out of it. Is what is "legal" equivalent to what is "moral"? The question is raised because the justification for the...
by r-o-y16 months ago
The Luciferian gospel:Genesis 1:1 we read, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…” So, if Satan was a murderer from the beginning, then God created him that way. This gospel states...
by OpinionDuck5 years ago
There is much citing the bible for free will OFFERING, but God gave us Free Will to do whatever we want then it should be in Genesis.Where do you think that is says God gave us free will?
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