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Is your belief based on faith, logic, or both?

  1. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Is your belief based on faith, logic, or both?

    Can a person be logical if they have an illogical belief or faith?

    1. 0
      sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How long must you go on with this?  Is posting this so many times logical when you already know the outcome?

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I don't already know the outcome. I'm not a fortune teller. Besides, the threads usually get interrupted by posters that have nothing to do with the question posed.

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          sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You mean, logically you statistically cannot predict the outcome?  Anyways, you just said you are not a fortune teller but you just told me...

          "the tread usually get interrupted by posters that have nothing to do with the question posed." 

          tongue

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Seriously, you asked a good question. I think I am obsessed with studying mine and others belief and the construction of the belief. I don't think theres anything wrong in it, maybe the tactics aren't always the best. lol

            I think you could logically say the thread has a good chance to end up as a disaster with a war of beliefs. But, this doesn't mean it's true. I have faith it will turn out great with all learning from one another while keeping a logical mind. lol

            1. 0
              sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Think of it this way.

              If you punched two people with the same amount of force, who's to say it hurt the same for both?

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Who's to say it wouldn't? Both would learn from the punch. lol

                1. 0
                  sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  It's not the point and you know it.

                  You know what I think?  I think you really want to believe in god but don't want people to think you are stupid or something.

                  I don't think people who believe in god are stupid.  I think people say stupid things and if you are ashamed of what you really believe then you have a problem.

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Sandra, I don't think the biblical God is rational. This doesn't mean that i'm not open to the idea of creation or a creator/creators.

                    Have you always assumed I was an atheist? If I was ashamed of what I believe, you really think I would state my beliefs in an open forum to be picked apart when the mob disagrees with me?

        2. cheaptrick profile image64
          cheaptrickposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I learned how to rebuild a carburetor today so whata ya mean
          "Nothing to do with the question posed".
          recon bro recon...lol...

      2. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Along similar lines as Sandra has said, your threads ask the same question.  And to me the entire set of questions becomes circular dialogue which never reaches satisfaction, I think to you.

        When a person continually talks about logic and the mind, he is never out of the mind.  One of the integral teachings of Buddhism and Hinduism is to go beyond the mind.  You will NEVER reach the conclusions to the questions you ask from the ordinary mind.

        I can certainly see why people get frustrated with your threads.  Not my intention to cause malaise to your logical thinking.  But the only way to ever become satisfied with these types of questions is to have experiences, and this is how science and logic can intermingle with the unknown.  The unknown is only unknown until it's known.  A pioneer of the mind reaches beyond what he logically sees, to the apparent illogical and makes it known.  It is not his job thereafter to force others to have the same experience, unless they ask to be shown how to have that same experience.

        Individual thought comes from one who wishes to be a pioneer beyond the known.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Point taken.

      3. kmackey32 profile image82
        kmackey32posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It must go on till the answers make sense to the one asking the questions... wink

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You said it better than I could have. The answers are making a lot more sense to me on this thread than on previous ones.

    2. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Both, my logic helps me to understand and use the experiences in my life to predict probable outcomes to situations. Logic also produces a foundation that is re-peat-able by me in new situations. Faith, is where I am when I can't "prove" something to be true or untrue, but based on my past experiences, beliefs or instincts "believe" that something to be true.
      I do however keep an open mind on all the things I cannot prove as true. (Keeping an open mind is admitting that what we "believe" to be true may be completely wrong...)

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Great comment. I couldn't find one thing to disagree with.

    3. AdsenseStrategies profile image70
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Funny you should ask. I was just thinking as your question came up that I suspect we all believe what we believe because of our upbringing or cultural background (or sub-cultural background). Atheists included.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think that is true. New thoughts and beliefs are formed everyday.

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image70
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I guess I was generalizing

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            As a generalization, I agree.

            1. AdsenseStrategies profile image70
              AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yes but only because you were brought up with that belief big_smile

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                lol Nope. It's because I individualized and somehow found myself through the blinding society and mob.

                1. AdsenseStrategies profile image70
                  AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What was the question :p

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't remember, I have ADD. lol

    4. Rod Marsden profile image85
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If a person has a faith or belief that is completely off the rails then there is no way they can be logical. If some guy or gal straps explosives to their bodies and goes and blows up a bus full of school children with the idea that they will go to heaven because it is the enemy's children getting blown up has a few problems with logic. If you can't see that your family and friends are most likely to pay for what you have done or are going to do then there must be a gap in logic.

      The Cold War remained cold because religion didn't enter into it or at least not in a fanatical way. The Russians and the Red Chinese were very much family orientated to the point where they would not sacrifice themselves and their loved ones just to get at the enemy. This sounds pretty logical to me. No atomic missiles flying. On the other side the people of the West felt pretty much the same way. No atomic missiles flying.

      A war between two or three powerful nut-case religious nations with powerful atomic weapons might well spell out Armageddon. We haven't had that yet but if the USA goes really fanatically nut-job Christian and there are Muslim nations that are strongly nut-job Muslim then the world could be in real trouble. A bit of give and take and mutual respect can go out the window. Then you have doing anything for the faith including destroying yourself and your family. Logic? At that junction it is a foreign word.     


      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
        Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well stated, and that is the true risk of religious intolerence today. The destruction of the entire world, because "God Wills it". Very very scary!

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          lyricsingrayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          As is this thread.

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            HUH? I don't understand... nevermind I got it, as is this thread, very very scary.

    5. Misha profile image74
      Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I do not have any belief. LOL at least not that I am aware of smile

      1. 0
        sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Misha! smile  Are you back or just poking in?

    6. Bovine Currency profile image61
      Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Bovine Currency profile image61
        Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, that was a little snappy.  I just woke up and havent learnt to be civil yet.  I need my coffee.

        1. Bovine Currency profile image61
          Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Let me start again,

          My answer is yes, a person can be logical in any case.  One belief based on illogical reasoning or nonlogical reasoning (two different sorts of reasoning - illogical and NONLOGICAL) does not rule out logic on a larger scale.

          Faith is not necessarily illogical.  Faith might be an issue entirely independent of logic.  Perhaps, faith might be a decision come to by way of logical thought process, reaching the end of logic so far as science or natural evidence goes, whatever, doesn't matter.  Faith based on self survival or happiness is still based on logic.  If I decide to believe in god and I do so because it makes me happy, that might still be logical.

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            More coffee, I still don't understand what your saying...

            1. Bovine Currency profile image61
              Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Nice one.

              Logical, illogical and nonlogical.  These are forms of reasoning.  Logical reasoning is synonymous with valid reasoning.  Illogical is then invalid, clearly.  Nonlogic is not an issue. 

              Logic can be applied to an isolated clause, i.e. if a then b

              Logic can also be applied to a broader claim, a complex argument

              Faith and logic are not necessarily incompatible but it belief in god is a complex argument.  To be convinced of anything we must provide reasoning to our own self.  Whether that reasoning is valid (logical) or not, who knows.

              1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                the highlighted part I still don't understand...

                1. Bovine Currency profile image61
                  Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Belief in god is a complex argument.  Logic is a matter of valid conjecture according to set laws.  Logic is not dependent on evidence.

                  1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Logic is a matter of critical reasoning that starts at a starting point and follows a set path leaving out no step in the process until it reaches a conclusion. Using evidence to get from one step in the process to the next.
                    Logic is most definately dependent on evidence.

                    Belief in God is a complex arguement, can you say "understatement"... wink

          2. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think that depends on your idea of a God. You could have a faith based belief of God which could contradict logic.

            1. Bovine Currency profile image61
              Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Of course.  I am not arguing against you marine.  All I am saying is that faith and logic are not necessarily incompatible.

              On a similar note, god is not = to monotheistic god and not = to christ the lord

              faith is not = theistic god

              logic is not = to scientific explanation

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I understand this. I think they are incompatible when unbalanced or used in the wrong order. I think they can be contradicting to each other in some cases.

    7. Lita C. Malicdem profile image82
      Lita C. Malicdemposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      First, let me define "faith" as unquestioning belief in God or in religious tenets, that does not require proof or evidence.

      Whereas, "logic" means the science of correct reasoning; science which describes relationships among prepositions in terms of implication, contradiction, conversion, etc.,hence we can say, there is such a thing as faulty logic.

      So I must say, that our beliefs are based more on logic. I don't believe that anyone can claim that he has unquestioning belief in God. He will always use his logic for his inductions and deductions in life.

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
        Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Faith isn't what your saying it is, at least not only what your saying it is. the dictionary says: Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing not resting on logical proof or material evidence   it is not unquestioning
        Logic:  from the Greek λογικός (logikos) [1] is the study of reasoning.[2] Logic is used in most intellectual activity, but is studied primarily in the disciplines of philosophy, mathematics, and computer science. Logic examines general forms which arguments may take, which forms are valid, and which are fallacies. It is one type of critical thinking.

        I believe that our logic leads us to our Faith. Logic takes us to where the proof ends, and Faith takes it from there. When new proof is discovered, then we have to re-examine where our faith led us and correct our course as necessary.

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I partly agree. I agree that everyone uses logic, just that some use faulty logic. I think faith is dangerous in the fact that it is what someone wants to believe and some will deny logic for what they want to believe. As far as belief in creation, I don't think the bible or religion is very logical. However, I do think belief of creation can be logical when it can't be ruled out.

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think faith is required to perform any action.A child has faith he can ride a cycle , do a hand stand, an adult  particular job etc etc.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            So you do not distinguish "faith" that you can ride a bicycle from "faith" that there is a god? Or "faith" that you are going to burn in hell for all eternity?

            The "fact" that it is possible to watch other people ride cycles and learn from this is exactly the same as the "hearsay" that some one like you tells me there is a god?

            All the same to you.

            How about an invisible cycle that no one has ever seen? wink

            1. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I know there is god, I became god its my real identity, my faith is knowing and not guessing.
              I like this description of faith-
              http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith

              Confidence or trust in a person or thing.

              You can watch me meditate but will not understand what meditation is until you do it, many things in life like god need to be experienced.

              I am sure you are the only one who has seen this cycle you are talking about but many including myself have seen god.wink

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                So - do you not want to answer the question? Is faith in the invisible super being that only you can see the same as faith that you can ride a bike?

                And your dictionary definition (belief that is not based on proof) contradicts itself. wink

                1. mohitmisra profile image60
                  mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  After answering and putting the dictionary meaning you say I don't want to answer ??  very weird. smile

                  After seeing why should I not have faith?

                  Science is spending billions of dollars building particle accelerators trying to find this proof, the god particle because they believe or have faith it exists.
                  You need to correct the scientific community as well and not just the believers in god.
                  Proof is limited in science, but you will get stuck if scientific proof is all you are looking for as it is limited.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL

                    Your dictionary also defined it as "believing something with no proof." 

                    So you are contradicting your own definition to justify your beliefs. OK - I understand.

                    Now - show it to me. wink

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              sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Let's say faith is more like a prerequisite to an action.

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Correct it is. smile

      3. 0
        sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        smile

    8. Friendlyword profile image59
      Friendlywordposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's quite obvious that people who do not use faith and logic to form their belief go off the deep end one way or the other. That's why there are so many Atheists and Religious Fanatics in this World.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol This was excellent! I agree. I think both sides that go off the deep end go off with faith and emotions tied to their belief where they will refuse logic that their belief could be incorrect.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think I have to agree with both of you here... smile Well Said (Both of You)

    9. Google Gal profile image60
      Google Galposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Um, I bellieve in logic

    10. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Experience. smile

    11. H.C Porter profile image84
      H.C Porterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My personal beliefs are based on faith having to do with hope, and comfort that there is a reason that traumatic life experiences happen for a reason and that when we lose someone they are not truly lost, just changed.

    12. MikeNV profile image75
      MikeNVposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking." -- Not my quote.

      Faith is the point at which people arrive at an explanation that satisfies their desire to stop thinking or they become overwhelmed. -- my quote.

      If you believe in something it neither validates nor denies it's truth.

      People must have faith in order to cope.



    13. aguasilver profile image86
      aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hebrews 11

      By Faith We Understand

      Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen......By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Faith = blind belief without logic.

        1. aguasilver profile image86
          aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not really, you see logically I know faith works as I have seen and experienced the evidence of my faith being justified and rewarded, so for me (and any believer who has faith) faith does work, it does produce the things we have faith will happen, because faith pleases God, indeed the bible states that without faith, we cannot please God.

          Now for a logical person, who cannot see, touch or feel faith, and therefore does not believe in faith, then faith cannot work.

          If you don't believe in faith, then faith is useless to you, you are stuck with logic that actually produced nothing except self confirmation that anything you cannot see, touch or feel does not exist.

          Having faith justified has proven God is faithful to do what He says He will do, that produces TRUST in God, and when you place your trust in God, God accepts the responsibility to care for you.

          No Faith=No Trust=No Hope

        2. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not necessarily some see the intelligence and aliveness in this universe and some do not.They will have different meanings or different viewpoints.
          For me faith is confidence and trust, very logical for me but someone else may not see it that way. smile

    14. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      This argument is moot.

      You're very essence is based on your faith in yourself. Without it, you wouldn't be able to live life. You must have faith in yourself and in the knowledge you possess and objective in it's meaning, to form a logical statement or to form any belief.

      Thank you for playing. Much appreciative.

      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree without faith nothing can be performed in life, like Sandra has nicely said it is a prerequisite to any action.smile

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Are you serious? I think you have too much faith in yourself without logic. If I didn't have faith in myself, I wouldn't have balls to write my ideas when some are unwritten and the majority disagrees with me. Try again enlightened one. If you would have used logic, you would have read previously where I said I have faith. Logic requires you to read previous post's before making your faith based assumptive comments.

    15. 0
      TMinutposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Way too long to read right now but my answer is "Experience".

    16. seyiari profile image57
      seyiariposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      belief shopuld be by faith because by faith because faith itself is not a philosophical fact neither is it a psychological fact. It is a spiritual force. It is a living force drawn from a living word to produce a living proof

      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        For a knower of god faith is absolute confidence and trust, a fact.Absolutely no doubt god exists and this universe is fully alive and intelligent an extension of ones self.The cosmos communicates with you and I can see this very clearly, every day of my life.
        I agree that is is yet not a scientific fact but philosophers have known god since ages.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think anything that is absolute is content in learning. Why would a growing mind and belief that learns new things on a daily basis need to be absolute? I think absolutes are limiting. I don't think philosophers have known anything. I think they have philosophied they know something while the true ones will admit they know nothing.

          1. mohitmisra profile image60
            mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I am talking of another dimension .Here one needs to constantly change, keep learning as experience is the perfect teacher,this doesnt stop for anyone religious or non religious.

            When you no longer exist and only god exists then there is no time so the question of learning new things which takes time doesnt come in.

            I keep learning every day of my life even from here when some one shares knowledge I didnt have.My activity is centred around god, writing a book like this is very difficult and takes lot of energy and action.

            Masterpieces are the the result of years of pain staking work where all that matters is the work for the poet or philosopher. Most humans will not be able to do this.Dont take books lightly. smile

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think I agree with that. I don't think theres any logical way to explain that faith is driven by a outside force. The only way to explain that faith is of a spiritual force is by faith. I think the logical explaination of faith is that faith is what the person wants to believe while logic and self-awareness is the balance of the faith.

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think the logical explaination of faith is that faith is what the person wants to believe while logic and self-awareness is the balance of the faith.

          Very nice sentence.smile

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks.

          2. wesleyacarter profile image60
            wesleyacarterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            that's awesome. i agree. why is faith and logic perceived as two different entities that can not mix?

            "very nice sentence" mohitmisra, was that you patting yourself on the back? you gotta have flexible shoulders for that! lol

            1. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No I was appreaciating marineallways words.

              1. wesleyacarter profile image60
                wesleyacarterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                haha i know. i was just poking fun

                1. mohitmisra profile image60
                  mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  oops ok carry on smile

            2. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for explaining your belief in the other post. I think they do mix and everyone uses both to an extent. I think the difference in people is the balance and order in which they use them.

              1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Extremely Well Said. cool

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks Mikel.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Totally wrong and faith-based, illogical statement though.  wink

                  2. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Your Welcome, sounds JUST like 'seasoning' to me...the meaning of life.

  2. 0
    Home Girlposted 6 years ago

    if I knew, guys, what you are talking about, I could post some reply...

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What do you mean? Logic and faith is what constructs every belief including yours. lol

  3. kess profile image60
    kessposted 6 years ago

    God does not nor intend for the mind of a man to operate outside of his natural mode of operation. Meaning something must be logical to the mind for that one to expect a desired outcome.

    So to the faithful his faith should be completely logical otherwise he would be outside of his M. O.

    But the issue is this, There are many religion, christian primarily who do not know exactly what faith is.
    It is used to describe what I call "strong hope".
       
    The faith God expect men to have is not the one the dictionary defined.

    Now you know why their faith sometimes may seems completely illogical.

    But then again one's faith should  not be subjected to the scrutiny of others,

    But the works of that one's faith should be the evidence of it.

  4. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Kess

    "God does not nor intend for the mind of a man to operate outside of his natural mode of operation. Meaning something must be logical to the mind for that one to expect a desired outcome."

    Which definition of God are you referring to? There are many different beliefs of God. I think you are wrong, I think faith overpowers logical thought. With faith, sometimes logic is contradicted.

    "But then again one's faith should  not be subjected to the scrutiny of others,"

    Why not? If their faith was correct, this should make their faith more powerful and stronger in their belief.

    1. kess profile image60
      kessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Just as it is logical to sit on a strong chair,
      just the same way it is logical  to expect your faith in  God to perform an act. For you know by your "knowledge of the truth" (faith) of God it will happen. 

      Can you justifx or negate my faith in God Marine? Neither.

      But you can certainly observe and confirm or deny the existence of my so called faith by my works.

  5. 0
    sandra rinckposted 6 years ago

    "A pioneer of the mind reaches beyond what he logically sees, to the apparent illogical and makes it known."

    Excellent Jewels. big_smile

  6. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Kess


    "Can you justifx or negate my faith in God Marine? Neither."

    Yes, I can prove whether it's based on logic or faith.

    1. kess profile image60
      kessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You will prove it to yourself only but not to me.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I can prove if it's logical or faith based.

        1. 0
          sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          How, you cannot even distinguish between the two yet.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            How can't I?

            1. 0
              sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Why don't you tell me oh logical one. big_smile

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I think I have decent self-awareness of distinguishing between the two. Do you not think I know people get tired and irritated of my repetitive questions?

                1. 0
                  sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Just answer the question marine. big_smile

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Logic is thought and belief separated from emotions in the search of evidence. Faith is emotional thought and belief without need for evidence.

                2. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                  Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't... keep asking until the answers make sense.

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks. I appreciate that.

  7. 0
    B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 6 years ago

    No one , but a few, understand my beliefs..so I do not bother talking about them much

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What are your beliefs?

  8. 0
    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago

    Well lets see I'll give the wheel a spin and the wheel in the sky keeps turn'in I don't know what I'll believe tomarrow! Well it's slowing and slowing and slowing and it says, I'm hindu! Damn I hate being hindu that means no brisket!

    1. 0
      Denno66posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Try Chicken. big_smile

  9. Niteriter profile image78
    Niteriterposted 6 years ago

    I have absolute faith that marine will create a rockin' forum thread.

  10. Niteriter profile image78
    Niteriterposted 6 years ago

    My faith in marine's ability to elicit a pridictable response is based on the logical postulation that an action resulting repeatedly in the same reaction is likely to elicit the same or a similar reaction again.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      But isn't a "similar" reaction also definable as a "different" re-action or outcome?

      1. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I smell bait!

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I have no idea what you are talking about. lol

      1. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You are a slippery dude!

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          In seriousness, one reason I have a good prediction of what someones answer will be is because I try to debate every possible answer before I ask the question. I also try to make the answers logically sound where they can only be wrong through faith. It doesn't always work out as planned, i'm not perfect. One of the reasons my questions are repetitive is because I like to find the individual thoughts through all of the trained thoughts.

          1. Niteriter profile image78
            Niteriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            In my personal observations, people seem to resort to faith after they've given up hope of getting the answer they want from logic.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I agree with that. Speaking for myself, I think I like having logic along with faith. I think both are powerful and equally important. I just think they get confused too often in the search of absolutes. I think faith is much stronger than logic for the fact that faith is emotions also being what the person "wants" to believe. I think logic and self-awareness are what balances the belief.

              1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I disagree, I think logic will only get you so far... Then you have to decide using things like past experiences, intuition, probabilty and then in the abscense of proof...Faith, in yourself and your common sense and (for me) Faith in something greater than myself.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree with using logic and faith in that order. I think what confuses belief and thought is when faith is used before logic. I also choose to have faith in a greater purpose other than myself, but it's not absolute for me.

                  1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I think that is very well stated. My Compliments.

  11. Niteriter profile image78
    Niteriterposted 6 years ago

    Faced with the prospect of completing a 500-mile highway drive in 10 hours, the logical person might say, "I will plan my trip so that I will be able to drive at a minimum speed of 50 mph with no stops and I will assume I will have no unforseen stoppages." A person of faith might say, "I will pray that I will reach my destination in the allotted time safely and in a rested state. I believe firmly that my prayer will be answered." Who's to say which is the correct approach?

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Which is better... Vanilla or Chocolate Ice cream?

      So which Ice Cream flavor is the "correct" one?

      1. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly. We'd all just enjoy the ice cream.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well yes and no, because someone will want double dutch pistaccio, my point is there isn't a right and wrong way to believe(or not believe), there isn't a right and a wrong way to pray, there are religious "flavors" the one you are most comfortable with is the "right" one for you. It won't be the right one for everybody, as God (if God exists) intended.

  12. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago

    Sorry my last post was confusing...
    Let me clarify...

    Niterider said, "In my personal observations, people seem to resort to faith after they've given up hope of getting the answer they want from logic."

    To this my response was, "I disagree, I think logic will only get you so far... Then you have to decide using things like past experiences, intuition, probabilty and then in the abscense of proof...Faith, in yourself and your common sense and (for me) Faith in something greater than myself.
    I don't think it is a "giving up hope" situation."


    Marine said,"I agree with that. Speaking for myself, I think I like having logic along with faith. I think both are powerful and equally important. I just think they get confused too often in the search of absolutes. I think faith is much stronger than logic for the fact that faith is emotions also being what the person "wants" to believe. I think logic and self-awareness are what balances the belief. "
    Which for the most part I agree with.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ty for clarifying along with the great conversation. It usually only gets around a page and a half before logic is thrown out the window and insults fly on the threads I open. lol

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
        Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sure thing, the heated debates are caused by profound belief. The inability to prove your point means that something you hold very dear, something that is very precious to you is "at risk" and you cannot defend it, you cannot protect it,(because there is no proof). But these deeply held convictions are part of the very base makeup of Personal Identity, so any critism or disbelief is taken as an attack at the core of the Human Being, and not as a Logical debate about inconsequential facts. wink

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree again. This is why I choose not to believe absolutes to separate emotions and always keep my mind open to new ideas in discussions.

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The only absolute I find hard to deny is.. That we are ALL different, and that is the only way, we are ALL the same. The differences may be minute, even microscopic, but we are all just a little bit differently "flavored".  smile

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I agree, we are all born individual and unique and remain different in some way, however some try so hard to be like others.

              1. 0
                sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Marines.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Former Marine

                  1. 0
                    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I thought once you're a Marine you're always a Marine! Now I would argue being like everybody else is kind of the name of the game!

  13. 0
    lyricsingrayposted 6 years ago

    What if your belief is not based on faith yet carries logical elements?  I too would then belong, agree?

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      lol I didn't know we had a club going, but you belong!

    2. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Faith is believing in something without proof, it is NOT believing when there IS proof to the contrary.
      In other words when you "think" something is true but you can't prove it, whatever that something is, then that is Faith in the something you think is true.
      For example: as you get ready to cross the street, you see a car coming and they appear to be slowing down for you... You decide to go ahead and cross the street because you "think"(believe) that they will not hit you. That is Faith, because you don't really know they won't hit you, but your past experiences and logic led you to conclude that it is probably ok to cross the street.
      Lyrics, you belong, we all belong... now to what do we belong?
      We are all Human, we are all mammals, we ALL think differently(even when we agree).
      I believe we are all puzzle pieces. We complete a picture of something. All the pieces are different, but they ALL belong. We just have to find out where.

  14. Niteriter profile image78
    Niteriterposted 6 years ago

    You'd belong anywhere, lyrics.

    1. 0
      lyricsingrayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      big_smile tongue

      1. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You're a very naughty girl! I hear Billy Joel: "Now don't go changin'..."

  15. Niteriter profile image78
    Niteriterposted 6 years ago

    I think we're brothers here, Mike. Just say yes!

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      wink

      1. Niteriter profile image78
        Niteriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You're my pal for life.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol... wink

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If you really think that why don't you read my hub and give me an honest opinion of it? (not trying to spam)

  16. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    neither its hope

  17. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Mikel, I would like your idea on this.

    I think there could be an overall purpose to life which is to find common ground and unite. I think we were united in the beginning of life and began to separate and individualize. I think to unite, all individuals would have to sacrifice a part of their individual belief to uphold the agreed group belief. I think a logical prediction would be that it isn't likely that every individual will ever sacrifice their personal belief to follow the group belief. I think this is only possible through faith. I also think this is why religion could have first been developed. I think individuals are destructive to the group belief because some refuse to sacrifice personal belief for the group.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think you need to read my hub. And ask all the questions that will raise in you. wink

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Will do.

  18. starme77 profile image87
    starme77posted 6 years ago

    I only believe in logic and thats it

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Your not alone in the beliefs of atheism. I however Believe... wink

      1. starme77 profile image87
        starme77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        logic is not athiest its just , simply ... logic...never said I was athiest

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          My apologies, I did assume that a belief in 'only' logic and that's it, meant no belief in anything else(anything else being a belief in God).

          1. starme77 profile image87
            starme77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            wrong assumtion -

            1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
              Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Again, My Apologies.

              1. starme77 profile image87
                starme77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                awww no need to apologize so much , no big deal

  19. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Empirical evidence. Logic based.
    Even totally able to change belief overnight. Show me any evidence and I am interested in anything. Even religion believe it or not. smile

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hello Earnest!

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Mikel! smile

    2. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ok... you asked for it...

      If there is a lowest form of life... then there has to be a highest form of life...

      correct or not?

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I have been wondering about this statement since I first saw you post it. smile
        I have some difficulty with the absolute, and a bit of trouble with deciding what is meant by "form"
        smile

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ok a rock is an inanimate object, containing no signs of life, therefore it is NOT a life form.
          the things we (humanity) classify as "living" in a general sense are acceptable paramaters to me for the use of the concept "lifeform". Does that do it for you?

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            So single cell lifeforms are in?

            1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
              Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              absolutely

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And their simple form puts them at the extreme low end?

                1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                  Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  possibly, my point is this: if they and we are not the same, then one or the other is superior. If one of two life forms is lowest, then the remaining is "highest".

                  1. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I see. smile It seems the likenesses between living things is tightly related. A banana is very little different in makeup to Albert Einstein.
                    I like the current star dust theories of Kraus.

                2. 0
                  sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I would think more at the top.

      2. Friendlyword profile image59
        Friendlywordposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The problem is humans trying to define the highest form of life in human terms. You cant define God, give him a name, tell people what he said! How could you know if a higher life form has a sex? Maybe the entire universe is a space around one spark in a higher life forms brain. I dont know, you cant know. You can only have faith and hope that HE is even aware of us...I think!

        1. wesleyacarter profile image60
          wesleyacarterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          that's awesome

  20. kmackey32 profile image82
    kmackey32posted 6 years ago

    Hi Earnest, long time no see. smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Kmackey! It has been a while. smile

  21. Bovine Currency profile image61
    Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago

    I need to go, sorry.  I would have liked to continue this.

    I recommend this website re: logic.

    http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/main.html

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      OK BC I will check it out. smile

      1. Bovine Currency profile image61
        Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Cya earnest.  Just like to note, you are an extremely pleasant hubber, I enjoy your comments.

  22. 59
    owner_2posted 6 years ago

    I just believe in logic.I wish i could have faith.It makes life easier.http://i45.tinypic.com/2zo92fr.jpg

  23. bojanglesk8 profile image60
    bojanglesk8posted 6 years ago

    Both.

  24. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I do not relate to what was inferred of my reply Mikel, and have filed you under intellectual pygmy or mental dwarf, I am not sure which. smile
    Learn to read and listen to what is being said, and you owe me an apology!

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Definately Mental Dwarf, intell...is just to big a word for me.
      Take Care, have fun...

  25. tantrum profile image62
    tantrumposted 6 years ago

    lol

  26. Bovine Currency profile image61
    Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago

    mothitmisra finally admits he is god.  Well praise Yahweh!!

    lol lol

    1. tantrum profile image62
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      lol

      So god exists, after all ! and posts in a forum !
      Weird !! lol

      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why is it weird?
        Because you are unable to comrehend yourself?

        1. Bovine Currency profile image61
          Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          1. mohitmisra profile image60
            mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You have no idea who you are. smile I do smile

            1. Bovine Currency profile image61
              Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol

            2. tantrum profile image62
              tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol lol lol lol

              5 stars smilies !
              for WEIRDNESS lol

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Meditate gain some knowldge and you will stop laughing at your ignorance. smile

                A person ranked 2 in religious books is weird? what and absurd statement to make especially on a religious forum. smile

                1. Bovine Currency profile image61
                  Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks god lol

                  1. mohitmisra profile image60
                    mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Welcome but try it out talking is cheap and easy doing is difficult.

                2. tantrum profile image62
                  tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Ignorance is Bliss. You should know about that being so Blissful yourself ! lol

                  1. mohitmisra profile image60
                    mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Sad sense of homour, expected from you. smile

    2. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Finally ?

      1. Bovine Currency profile image61
        Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        We all knew it lol

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You know nothing.

          1. Bovine Currency profile image61
            Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lollollollollol

  27. itcoll profile image60
    itcollposted 6 years ago

    mine is mainly based on faith.

  28. Bovine Currency profile image61
    Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago

    lollollollollol

    I second that!

  29. prettydarkhorse profile image63
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    my belief is based on faith alone and I will die believing in my faith

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do you mean to say your mind is completely closed to new information?

  30. Bovine Currency profile image61
    Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago

    we all know about your book rankings, why bring this up lol

    1. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If you know what do you find funny?

      1. Bovine Currency profile image61
        Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You are god, you work it out lol

        1. tantrum profile image62
          tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          1. 0
            SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Very good response BC. lol

            1. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "I tell ye you are all gods" Jesus what sort of a Christian laughs at Jesus?

  31. Bovine Currency profile image61
    Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago

    as hilarious as this is.  I've got to go for now.

    You made my day mohitmisra.

    Tantrum, pleasure as always, I love you a million xx

    1. tantrum profile image62
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I love you too !! xx smile

  32. Bovine Currency profile image61
    Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago

    bye for now

  33. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Lita, This is completely false.


    "So I must say, that our beliefs are based more on logic. I don't believe that anyone can claim that he has unquestioning belief in God. He will always use his logic for his inductions and deductions in life"

    You are saying that everyone thinks the same. I can't believe you think suicide bombers are using logic over faith. Logic says it would be stupid to blow yourself up along with innocent people. How about parents that have denied their children life saving medical treatment for faith and have let their children die? You think they are logical also?

  34. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Still believe the dictionary is absolute or is it flawed like everything else to make us think we know what we are talking about?

    1. 0
      sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You know why there are so many definitions to any given word?  Look for what's common.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What do you mean whats common? There are so many definitions for each word probably because they aren't absolute. If they were absolute, wouldn't they only have one definition per word?

  35. Don W profile image83
    Don Wposted 6 years ago

    Marine, you seem genuinly interested in this stuff which is fair enough, but redefining common terms will not help your discussions. What Bovine Currency said hit the nail on the head.



    You seem like a man trying to invent a turning cirular device. You aren't willing to accept that's it's already been invented and it's called a wheel.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Invent a what? There is more than one definition of logic. There is more than one type of wheels. I'm not redefining anything, i'm pointing to what it left out. If you disagree, prove me wrong rather than picking a side to cheer for. I clearly stated my example of how emotions play into logic.

  36. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    I think it's clear faithful assumptions contradict logical thought.

  37. 0
    sandra rinckposted 6 years ago

    Take the logic test.

    A boy with no legs wants to ride a bike.  Someone says to the boy, 'you cannot ride that bike, you have no legs."

    The boy feels determined but discouraged.

    Someone else comes along and says, "Yeah, you can ride that bike, just use your brain."

    The boy invents something that he believes would work logically.  He takes some rope and rigs the pedals so that the kid can operate the bike with his hands.

    Using this scenario, which is logic and which is faith?

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      lol Why are you testing me? Did you make this test up?

      1st Logic, 2nd Faith, Happy?

      The boy used logic and faith to build the bike. The first example challenged his faith that he could never ride a bike and the second one gave him faith that it would be possible to someday ride a bike if he used his logical mind and had faith in his abilities.

      Did I pass your test?

      1. 0
        sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Then you agree that you can do both? After all, it is you that keeps saying that you cannot be logical and have faith.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I think both are equally important if faith not being more important. I just think it is blind and unbalanced without logic.


          Quote me where I said you can't be logical and have faith. If I did say that somewhere, I was incorrect.

          1. 0
            sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Okay! So if your logic is flawed then your faith is also flawed. If your faith is flawed then your logic is flawed. smile

            The parable goes:

            Works without faith is dead, faith without works is dead.

            In other words, if the boy just sat around praying that he could ride the bike, he would be praying until the day he died.
            or like I said before... faith is a prerequisite to an action.

            Without it, people do nothing.  So the first part of the parable is saying 'doing nothing does nothing'.  However, the term faith has somehow come to mean.

            If you don't have faith in Jesus then your dead. lol  Or if you do a good work but don't believe in Jesus then it doesn't count for anything blah, blah blah. lol lol

            Now going back to what you said:

            Would you also agree that it is more like...

            Faith is emotional thought and beliefs without knowing the outcome?

          2. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            So by your measure one can have faith and be logical as well.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yes! Or logic and faith. I think the order in which they are used could have a big impact of being logical or illogical.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                This only works if you redefine the words to suit yourself - as you have now done. wink

                Using logic after the event to support a faith based belief makes it illogical.

                But - this seems to be what all the believers do as they cannot survive by faith alone.

                They keep telling me that my faith that I can ride a bike etc etc is exactly the same as having faith that you are going to live for ever - and just as logical.

                Like you marine - they resort to semantics. Which is illogical and begs the question why you need to do this?

                1. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                  Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this
                2. mohitmisra profile image60
                  mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Do you see intelligence at work in this universe?
                  An intelligence not man made.
                  Is it logical or illogical to do so?

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No I do not see intelligence at work in the universe.

                  2. Mikel G Roberts profile image87
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, but this is a BIG topic. Long, many arguments, much pulling hair and name calling involved. maybe a new post?

  38. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    aquasilver

    "Not really, you see logically I know faith works as I have seen and experienced the evidence of my faith being justified and rewarded, so for me (and any believer who has faith) faith does work, it does produce the things we have faith will happen, because faith pleases God, indeed the bible states that without faith, we cannot please God."

    Faith is blind without logic. I think he would be more pleased if you actually had and used an open mind. That would require a balance of logic. As you clearly state, you refuse logic that challenges what you want to believe "faith".

    "Now for a logical person, who cannot see, touch or feel faith, and therefore does not believe in faith, then faith cannot work."

    lol, Don't try to preach about logic when you clearly state you refuse logic for faith. Stick to what you know. You are making a blind assumption "faith based" that I have no faith. You are wrong, I am a huge believer of faith, just not blind faith. There is no logic in your faithful assumptions.

    "Having faith justified has proven God is faithful to do what He says He will do, that produces TRUST in God, and when you place your trust in God, God accepts the responsibility to care for you"

    I have faith in a balanced belief, not a one sided one that is blind. I'm sorry you can't comprehend someone can have faith in creation simply because they don't agree with your belief book. Get over it. Your belief isn't the only belief nor is it absolute. That may be absolute.

  39. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Sandra,

    "Okay! So if your logic is flawed then your faith is also flawed."

    Sandra, everyones logic and faith are flawed. Everyone has contradicted themselves before and been hypocritical before. Where did I say I was an exception?   



    "In other words, if the boy just sat around praying that he could ride the bike, he would be praying until the day he died.
    or like I said before... faith is a prerequisite to an action."

    I think you may be wrong on this one. Say he had faith god would build the bike for him with no logical action, faith didn't get him very far.

    "Would you also agree that it is more like...

    Faith is emotional thought and beliefs without knowing the outcome?

    Yes, I think both apply. I think an outcome can be more predictable when logic and faith is used together and balanced.

    1. 0
      sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Was just coming back to edit my post.

      If your logic is flawed then your faith is flawed, if your faith is flawed then your logic is also flawed.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Where are all these spots my logic and faith are flawed? I think your logic is flawed when you say new ideas don't exist.

        1. 0
          sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          What are you talking about?  Point it out or don't post things that I never said. Thanks. big_smile

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lol Sorry. Do you still love me?

    2. 0
      sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well... he would still be praying until the day he died right? lol  Which is why I say faith is a prereq. to an action. 

      People who have faith in a god doesn't bother me because it cannot do anything to me, people who have faith that they are doing god's will... that scares me.

      People reason in different ways.

      You have faith that there is a Creator.  I don't see any logic in the thought that a big guy with a white beard is hoovering in the Heavens and waved his magic wand, and padow!  There was life. 

      Sorry.

  40. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Why is it hard for some to believe that the dictionary isn't absolute and lacks information?

    1. 0
      sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Who said it was absolute?  I said ask yourself why there are so many definitions to any one word.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I aswered that, because I don't think it's absolute. I think it has flaws like anything else. Why does it have so many definitions to every word?

        1. 0
          sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Of course I still love you.  They aren't flaws.  If it never changed then something would be wrong. smile

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree. Well said. If it was absolute, it possibly would have never been changed and updated. I think this can be related to some beliefs. Thanks, I still love you 2.

        2. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

             two thousand years has pased.  If someone writes something in ebonics and in another 2000 years someone reads these things written in EBONICS someone will ask???  Why are there so many definitions of a word???   DUH.   YOUR BASIC UNDERSTANDING IS IN MOST CASES CLOSER TO THE TRUTH THAN ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN LOGICALLY COME UP WITH.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The logical truth is that we have the ability to use both logic and faith together. One without the other is blind.

  41. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Does it really matter what your faith is based upon as long as you have got it????

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      On an individual level, no. On a society level, yes. Your faith could have you commit an irrational act or crime if you don't use logic.

  42. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    neither

  43. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Here is a theory, maybe it is a conspiracy they didn't put "emotions" in the definitions of logic and faith. If the public knows how to separate emotions for logic, the religion or government can't keep them in fear and in control. It is also the basis of any lawyer in court proving or disproving his case. The lawyer uses evidence and logic, not a trial simply based on faith.

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

         As long as I'm not in a court of law;  I'm goina thank and do what I thank is the best that I know how to do.

         And if you think diffrently than I do I hope that that works good for you.
           Bless your litle heart.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol Um, Thanks? You don't have to be in a court of law to see how logic and faith relate to belief. How do you know I have a little heart?

    2. Bovine Currency profile image61
      Bovine Currencyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      marine I am sure I have suggested this before but you seem to still lack an awareness of what logic is.

      I recommend this website


      http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Instead of making another faithful statement, explain where my logic is flawed. Many definitions of logic are still in theory. There is no absolute definition. Do you think logic uses emotions? Is that website absolute to you?

  44. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I could be wrong but that seems to be the way that YOU describe it.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How is that when I say faith can be equal if not more important than logic?

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

           Logic examines the breath out of life.
           What do ya do ??? cut a bird open lookin for life???
          Logic aint goina find it

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Your faith has you talking about carving up birds to prove me wrong. What did the birds do to you? I never said anything about killing tweety. Although, he does taste good!

  45. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Grand pa  told me that if I kill it I gotta eat it.

  46. 0
    Ghost32posted 6 years ago

    Ummm...my belief is based on neither faith nor logic.  It's based on experience. 

    When I was deeply into my spiritual search in my late twenties and came across a book that discussed the belief system (path/religion) to which I've since belonged, what the text said simply made sense to me.  You know, if it agrees with you, it must be brilliant...and many of the thoughts I'd had were already in line with what the book had to say.

    That was 37 years ago.  I do believe logic applies in that nothing I've since learned seems illogical (to me at least), and my faith is considerable based on these several decades of personal results. 

    But in the beginning, the faith part was tentative until proven through hardcore experience.

  47. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Just to clear this up because I think there are some that believe all their ideas must come from books someone else has written.



    All ideas do not come from books!

    All books come from ideas.

  48. DaniellaWood profile image80
    DaniellaWoodposted 6 years ago

    Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and I completely repect that. Here are mine:
    [FAITH due to nurture] Going back a few generations, my Dad's side of the family have always been religious, attending church every week and so on. I've never been to church but have grown up believing in God, simply so that I have comfort in thinking God is going to make things better when times get rough.
    [LOGIC due to nature] But as I grew up and became more and more interested in science, I studied the evidence and realised what I believed in wasn't exactly what we'd call logical - a man creating an entire universe in 7 days etc. - and so now I sway towards the big bang theory, although I still pray from time to time.
    So in answer to your question, both play an equally important role in my life!

  49. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago

    I have not called anyone names unless you think that me observing that you do not seem to understand what you are reading - or did not read it, is name calling.

    Allow me to explain again. I will try saying it several different ways and see if one of them gets through. Please read this:

    Selectively quoting a dead scientist is not going to persuade me of anything. I am not interested in you selectively quoting Einstein - and I have not missed the point that he and now you are trying to make.  I do not care that you are prepared to selectively view everything to back up your ridiculous beliefs. It is not going to persuade me of anything.

    You can quote Einstein 'till the cows come home. Not going to persuade me of anything.

    No matter how many times you selectively quote something Einstein was supposed to have said after being badgered by a religionist - you are not going to convince me of anything.   

    Do you understand now?

  50. GeneralHowitzer profile image62
    GeneralHowitzerposted 6 years ago

    ROFL on you too Mark... hehehe... BTW, I read your replies with that of Gardner's hehehe, and here is my resounding remark: "No Comments"...

    Einstein was aware of a Universal God but never with a personal god... just to inform you...!

 
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