Believers of a god: What (if anything), would lead you to stop believing?
Non-believers: What (if anything), could convert you to belief in a god?
The only way I would change my belief is an act of God
And I am a believer.
Well, since I must be subjected to a category, in order to voice my knowledge, I will go with "non-believers", as I reject all mystical faith religions.
Any belief in "GOD" is misplaced according to biological nature of man and woman. Your individual sense of life, along with your consciousness/awareness and your conscience is all a person requires for life. The so-called 'faith' applied to the "GOD" concept is a misconception. Those who claim to "know" God's will or that 'it', 'he', 'him' or 'she' exists is dislusionly faking themselves. What many don't realize is that they are tapping into their own consciousness, so as to get guidance, but the guidance comes from within and not external.
The fact that the "GOD" concept still exists, shows exactly, the biggest problem on the planet. People's inability to be 100% self-responsible for their entire life. Many want more meaning for their life, but fail to realize the only way to add real meaning, is to create a purpose for living, instead of believing that once you die, your life will continue on? This is the most unbelieveable belief system ever created. It's insanity run amok.
Therefore, I have tested 'religious doctrines', to prove to myself they do not work and to expose the hoax of religion. And, now I can, because I found the basis for religion to exist. Which is evil in and of itself.
Casgil now please consider this,
"I say you are Gods" David and Jesus.
"The kingdom of God is within you." Jesus
How would you answer justify your concept with the one presented?
Btw Most religion reject the most obvious concept these verses present.
I value your response.
Is it possible that God is within all of us and so when you go inside for guidance you are going to God? I am a non-believer in all organized religions. I belive that religion is man made and corrupt. However I still had to put out the question for thought.
Cagsil, the problem with believing that each person has to create their own purpose for living is that you basically say there's no purpose then for babies' existence.
WOW! took the words out of my Mouth.
A reasonable argument, and I've heard a few. I'm not categorically against the idea, as long as the implication is not that I therefore have to follow the dictates of some group of humans who claim to be speaking on his behalf. If there is a way of him revealing himself to me, fine, no problem -- just don't pretend YOU (I don't mean you, lineofprogression), are the authority on the matter -- that way leads totalitarianism...
God himself proving he was God. but it doesn't mean I'd like him.
No matter what tests God puts before me...I will always follow him...he accepts me even when I slip up. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
So the answer is nothing would stop me from believing in God.
A miracle witnessed by everyone in existence that couldn't logically be explained.
Nor does it need to be explained. It only needs to be explained to those who don't already recognize existence for what it is. Plain and simple.
It is not up to you to define everyones existence and you preach about people defining their own existence. You don't make sense.
And existence is about being in the here and now living everyday to the best of your ability.
That will happen with a false messiah. coming soon to a community near you.
I hope you have been doing some historical research marine.
Sometimes the logical explanation is "it's a miracle."
For me it took some great research and study. My knowledge was not attained in forums like these. If it were, I fear I would not have found peace.
Since I see god as not so much a spiritual being that exists separate from us and doles out life lessons and miracles, but rather as the faceless/genderless energy that flows through every living thing.... I'd probably have to cease to exist to change my beliefs lol
Nothing, I am a believer a poet spreading god knowledge.
As a former believer [Christian], it took finally being as critical of my own religious beliefs as I was of everyone else's; along with a whole lot of reading, studying, and research. The "de-conversion" process was still slow...almost 5 years to be rid of the last vestiges of superstition and fear that grip the faithful. But it finally came down to being unable to ignore the facts: the Bible is hopelessly contradictory, and most of its stories are plagiarized myths from surrounding cultures at the time it was written.
Im glad you've become a rationalist, my de-conversion process was similar to yours. It was one of the hardest things Ive ever had to let go of. But it was very liberating.
I agree, most followers of any faith are simply uneducated in the history of how their faith came to be. Im not saying that there may not be truth in the tales or life lessons to learn and live by.
When God finds you in hell life becomes the values of God Jesus the holy spirit. God is a human birth right humanity takes by nations religions God will find you or you will find God Jesus the holy spirit its of God unto each human life
Belief is a very personal thing to most of us. The women in my life help me to believe. Take them away and you have a non-believer.
Wouldn't that be kind of hard to know until/unless it actually happened?
I am a Christian man but I'm going to share something with you that I've never shared with Christians.
The bible is a very strange book. It contradicts itself in many places and the Jesus of the new testament seems like a different personality when compared to the Jehova God of the Old Testament.
In short I've often wondered if some extraterrestrial being came upon the belief system of Jewish people and tried to mimic the actions or personality of the God these people believed in.
I know it's something like sacrilege to admit that I actually had this thought but; lights on the mountain, thundering,...it almost sounds like some space traveler landed on primitive earth and morphed into their primitive God..for what reason I don't know.
I just wonder sometimes.
God Bless you....you shouldn't be afraid to express your thoughts to your Christian brothers and sisters....they may judge you, but God welcomes your inquires....
And, you are absolutely right Jesus of the New Testament is a different personality that Jehova God of the Old Testament....that is the whole point of our having faith in Jesus....
Jesus is the manifestation of the love of God...Jehova in the O.T. was the judge moreso than the forgiver.....
There are no contradictions in the Bible, you have to look at the history and how the King James writers have rendered the original Hebrew and Greek .....you'll be all right my brother....don't get caught up with the atheists and skeptics, you will loose your eternal soul.....
Remember these people have a destiny just like you do....they choose death and eternal separation from God....you have chosen eternal life....They have absolutely nothing to tell you that will help you stand....they will make you fall and, you don't need that....
God has given you a unique mind, God isn't crazy and He is not standing over you with a stick to "get you" if you think outside of the box....God has not given you a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind.....
God bless you and thank you LeslieAdrienne. I perceive that God is with you and I receive what you said.
In the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
So no testing or questioning or scientific disciplines for you then!
Hmmmm. The thing is I have a great deal of respect for scientific disciplines. I know that without science the medical profession would not have existed anywhere near the extent that it has grown to now. Science however like religion makes leaps of faith that are not based on logic.
Artists renderings of complete animals based on a part of a bone is bogus science yet taught as if it were the truth.
The theory of evolution is a theory. Yet taught as though it was the truth.
A basic law of thermodynamics. It takes energy to create energy so where did the first energy come from?
Scientific answer: "well um energy has just always existed"....Classic.
See I respect science. I respect a scientist who would logically and sincerely concede that yes God may indeed be the first energy and creator of all things.
I can't prove God exist and you can't prove God does not exist.
I question and I will probably always question. I also have authentic experiences with God. Many powerful experiences.
I'm probably one of the few Christians who openly questions things about God I don't understand.
Still I cannot lie about the things God has done for me personally and within my family. To say otherwise would be wrong.
Earnest stop kicking against the Goads. It's time for you to come in from the cold. There are a great many answers to your questions. Not all of them but a lot of them.
It's ok Earnest. I was once exactly like you.
If your god has done things for you and your family and you say it would be a lie if he didn't, why does your god do all these wonderful things for you but allows 25,000 children to starve to death each day? Where are your gods priorities?
And, if you actually knew something about science, you would be in a position to comment on it, but clearly you're just dissing that for which you demonstrate only ignorance and disdain.
I have no disdain for science and I am well versed in the scienctific discipline of chemistry.
I am certainly not disrespecting science; I am definitely challenging bogus science and I reiterate the theory of evolution. Which is not a fact.
I reiterate one of the laws of thermodynamics; it takes energy to make energy so where did the first energy come from?
It is unscientific to not concede that God is not a possibility for all of creation given this very small fact about thermodynamics.
Nothing is impossible; some things however are highly improbable.
As for why God allows children to starve each day; it has to do with living in a fallen world. It has to do with sin. Humans have chosen to do it their way and God has decided to let us.
Children starve because of the evil that exists within us. We also have free choice which means we could feed those children if we chose to.
I think a better question is why aren't there any people with the will to see to it that these children get fed?
Q, if you're so caring and wonderful, how come you allow so many children to starve? God told us to feed the hungry. The fault lies with us for not listening and not doing enough.
And I was once exactly like you. Vulnerable and gullible. I'm older now.
How old are you exactly earnest?
Although age can bring wisdom this is not a hard and fast rule.
I know many people who have never grown up.
I only speak about the things that God has done; I don't know why God does what he does or doesn't do.
I have many of the same questions as other people have; still I cling to things God does on a daily basis.
I'm no better than anyone of you on your worst day.
I don't bludgeon people with my religion and I readily concede the things I don't understand.
As we age we come to understand our mortality and we also come to innately understand that there is something beyond life; after life if you will. We perceive of something much greater than ourselves. As our sun begins to set. Much like elephants who know when they are going to die. The human animal perceives God and spirit.
Are you saying I need to be older? I do not discuss age, it leads to comments like yours.
I have no reason at all to fight with those who believe in a god, as long as that god is not a psychotic murderer who is hate filled like the gods of the bible and Quoran. A psychotic god? Don't you ask yourself why men can overcome psychosis, it can be treated although it may take 6 years or longer, it is a nasty disease.
God though apparently had never noticed his psychosis and continued to use slavery rape murder and torture as his only tools to control the ignorant.
It makes more sense to me that a bunch of self serving men saw a good way to keep women in a position just below cattle and frighten the living daylights out of a lot of poor and ignorant people.
The bible was written by men, and the entity they refer to so often is merely the shadow of the dark side of self.
Earnest. I understand and I have asked myself and God the same questions.
Why all the murder and racism and intolerance?
I just don't know Earnest.
As for psychosis I don't think Christians have a particular monopoly on it.
If we are to be honest there are plenty of non-religious empires who did as much or more killing than Christians.
I am in no way trying to rehabilitate the evils committed by Christianity.
I get your points Earnest. I am searching those things out as well.
Sincerely questioning Christian
I would not think any particular religion or group has a monopoly on psychosis either.
I wonder at those believing the same psychosis as the writings and instructions from a "divine being" in the bible and quoran, I mean why would you even consider such an entity as "divine" or "all knowing" or omniscient, or omnipresent. omnipotent.
I have done more for charity than this supposed Mr everywhere and Mr everylove has done and I'm one of those heathens!!
That an omni anything entity is amongst man today is an obvious fallacy. As for the past, there is nothing of significance in the bible or quoran that did not originate from a belief which preceded it, and written elsewhere and earlier by someone else dating right back to sun worship and other ignorance where this bulldust started..
"I'm scared, I don't understand why the sun comes up or the people die, Must be a god causing it"
It is no longer the bronze age. We now know what a psychopath sounds like and behaves.
Hmmm....yeah I can see how you might see it that way Earnest. There are also a ton of instances of mercy, love,longsuffering, grace, morality, love...many virtues that are sorely needed in this fallen world.
These many virtues were always needed in any world, and humanity has as much of it as it always has had, maybe a bit more. Nothing to do with any gods.
You mean like Stalin? How about Mao Tse Tung? Hitler? The thing is earnest Godless civilizations have killed far more in the name of "no-god" than any Christian "civilization" ever has. I believe the lesser of the evil has been done because the Christian virtues in those places actually existed.
I am in no way trying to give approval to the evil that has been done by Christians however on balance it needs to be pointed out. Godless civilizations lacking Christian virtues; moreover lacking the Holy Spirit have done far more evil than any "Christian Empire"
I'm a believer so maybe I'd stop believing if God showed up, swung a pocketwatch in front of me and hypnotized me saying, "I'm not really here. I do not exist. I'm not really here. I do not exist..."
Honestly, I was trying to think of what. A few years ago, I perhaps could have been swayed by certain scientific findings, but now, after experiencing God, I don't guess even Alzheimer's would do it. I don't think it's only a matter of my mind anymore so there is nothing in my knowledge that could erase what I know. Admittedly, I don't know what exactly brain malfunctioning would do, guess I could forget and not remember what it is that I know, but I think it would still be there in me somewhere.
cagsil, you stated that you don't believe but the question is what would make you change what you do or don't believe. You don't think anything could, neither does anyone else, but what would have to happen to change YOUR mind?
Nothing would make me quit believing so their really is no use in trying to.
My God maybe different from yours; but nothing will stop me beliving in God.
Any better evidence empirical or other evidence changes my mind.
I am able to change my beliefs quite readily.
Same here earnestshub. It wouldn't be hard to convert me at all. Show me verifiable, peer reviewed, evidential proof of any of the acclaimed miracles that are said to happen everyday. If an amputees arm or leg were to regenerate upon praying to any of the gods, I among millions of others would be converted. Is that too much to ask from an omnipotent being? I guess he doesn't want to make salvation too easy to obtain.
I agree completely.
Give me facts. Facts change the mind and the world.
I'm not disagreeing. But, what are facts? What may be a fact to you may be a different fact in my belief. Is there an absolute definition that everyone would agree on of what a fact is?
I think your point is that "facts" can be construed differently based on perception. That's why court cases are lost and won--construing facts one way or another.
In science, it's not about perception. It's about a sequence of events that are observable, documented, and not an emotional response to the sequence of events. That's the difference. So in theory, it's possible to gather evidence as fact, without emotional perceptions messing it up. One of the problems about religion is that it so super-charged with emotions. Hence the pleasant exchanges about religious beliefs in the religion forum.
What would happen if we discussed religion without all the emotional baggage?
(We wouldn't need religion nearly much, for one thing. [Says I.])
Alright, if we have all scientific facts with no emotion guiding them, would this make the facts absolute? If it doesn't make them absolute, could it still be fact? If the facts were recognized as absolute, would they be recognized only by a few or by all as absolute?
Yes the application of scientific method.
Subject religion to this criteria.
1. consistent (internally and externally)
2. parsimonious (sparing in proposed entities or explanations)
3. useful (describing and explaining observed phenomena)
4. empirically testable and falsifiable
5. based upon controlled, repeatable experiments
6. correctable and dynamic (changing to fit with newly discovered data)
7. progressive (achieving all that previous theories have and more)
8. tentative (admitting that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)
Then tell me that proof for religion and science are equal in any way at all!
Thats exactly what I'm saying. Show me ANY kind of verified, peer reviewed, unexplainable miracle. They "happen everyday" so surely its not too much to ask for some of these miracles to occur in a scientifically controlled study. Until then all of these so called "divine interventions" or "miracles from the hand of god" remain to be hearsay.
Give one good reason why God should give one miracle just to be studied scientifically.
Oh idk............ maybe because it would save millions? I know I would be instantly converted. God is love, so why cant he do something so simple like this, and save countless souls?
Even if one was rasied from the dead, they will not believe.
The greatest event ever to take place happened. One who was perfect in every way, died for all mankind. They couldn't kill Him because death had no power over Him. He gave His life for you. He then rasied Himself from the dead.
What greater thing could happen?
I must say that if there was VERIFIED PROOF of someone being raised from the dead, I most certainly would believe. Sorry, but shallow claims in an old mythical textbook doesn't count as substantial evidence to me.
It has been verified. It doesn't matter how old the book might be, if it is right it is right.
WHO verified this claim, and HOW was it verified?
He want back in time and verified it for himself, he was there.
Jesus also told him to spread the message that god is not omnipresent and exists only in the Body of one human this planet has seen till date , name only Jesus.
There is another entity encompassing everything which is greater than god
History is not a "who." At best, it's a "what." History doesn't record itself. An actual HUMAN BEING has to write something down before it becomes a part of the historical record. So I ask you again, which HUMAN BEING(s) in history witnessed and attested to the resurrection of Jesus?
How do you know it is right? There were no physical witness's only that they came back and the body was gone. Anything could have happened; it is all in the interpretation of the one who wrote down what people take as fact (faith) today. All I am saying is that being human is to error and the bible was written by human hands. Also due to corruption and greed of power by humans so much of what the Bible originally said has been re-written or even physically taken out. It doesn’t matter what version you think you are reading. I am not trying to be rude and I apologize if I come across this way.
Mark 8 11-12
...the Pharisees came forth , and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.
And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
An extremely good reason: To silence all of us fools who have already said in our hearts that there is no God.
I am quickly learning one thing about SirDent: he is either stubbornly unwilling or completely incapable of answering a direct question. He also doesn't appear to think his responses through all that well. Consider the above: God COULDN'T give a miracle (assuming She exists) that could be studied scientifically, since a "miracle," by definition, is something contrary to the laws of nature and physics, and thus not available to the tools of scientific inquiry. SirDent just likes to gingerly dance around his theological house of cards.
Yeah its the theist trademark, answer a question with a question. "If you cant disprove Gods existence, than that means he's real!!" In my eyes its all about looking at probability, I believe that God is probably not real, just as I believe that the Tooth Fairy is probably not real. These kind of questions can only be answered with evidential proof. Therefore, you cant stamp any 100% certainty on either side of the argument. But that DOES NOT MEAN that the probability of gods existence or non-existence is equal. Its not a 50/50 chance scenario.
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Blue King James Version 1769
NKJV - Rom 9:20 - But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
Blue New King James Version
NLT - Rom 9:20 - No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to criticize God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who made it, "Why have you made me like this?"
Blue New Living Translation
NIV - Rom 9:20 - But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’
Blue The Holy Bible, New International Version
ESV - Rom 9:20 - But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
Blue English Standard Version
Red And in case you are bi-lingual....
RVR - Rom 9:20 - Mas antes, oh hombre, ¿quién eres tú, para que alterques con Dios? ¿Dirá el vaso de barro al que lo formó: ¿Por qué me has hecho así?
Sir Dent answered you....but not to your liking. Just man-up and say that you don't want to believe and be done with it. Tell us that you don't care if you go to Hell or not....tell us that you think that your friends are going to be there and it will be fun....
That's what you think, right???
Nobody loves you more than God does, and the best that we can do is give you His Word...you reject the Word and it is on you ....moving right along........
It would take fruit salad on the left to start going to church to get me to re-think my faith.
Agreed. My father was an amputee, and that proof of god would have been enough to convince me, my father died still with one limb missing.
When it comes to a god, well one would only need to perform a single miracle, like saving children to convince the whole of humanity. The scared and indoctrinated need no such proof it seems, they just asign the good to a god, the bad to man or the devil.
I am a non-believer (hey you in the back of the class stop throwing bibles and corans at me).
I doubt that anything would make me a believer since I can't really see why you would suddenly change a view on life just like that. A miracle could of course be a reason to change, but it would still just leave a lot of questions unanswered, and I don't like that.
All in all I believe (tricky word to use in this discussion) that you either believe in something or you don't. Going around picking of the fashion shelf like some celebrities are doing, has nothing to do with religion.
Even if one was raised from the dead, they will not believe.
There are not enough devils to make me forget who God is.
Perhaps you'd care to tell what God IS, rather than what He/She/It ISN'T?
I didn't ask what God's name was. I asked was God IS. If I ask you what a dog is, and you reply, "his name is 'Spot,'" well, I'm sure you can see that that's not entirely helpful.
Where were you when he created the world? Is there anyone at all who understands Him?
God reveals Himself. Nothing I can say will cause you to believe. It takes a revelation from God Himself.
But you obviously haven't had that revelation or you wouldn't be so naive and call someone ranked next to the Bible a son of a devil.
"I tell you you are all god " Jesus
You keep saying Jesus is a liar.
This is what I LOVE about Christians. The best answer they can come up with is invariably another question.
I wasn't there when the world was created, as I'm quite sure you weren't either. That would pretty much disqualify either of us from saying anything concrete about how it got here.
How do you know God (whatever that may be..you never answered that question) reveals "him"self? How do you know that whatever you may believe to be a "divine revelation" is in fact that?
You ask what GOD is? I think that God is to an individual whatever is most important for that person. For some it is a fishing boat. For others it is their bank statement. God is where you put your faith and find your comfort.
Now; if you ask what is the one true God??
The true answer would have to be "The true course"
The source of faith and comfort that is incorruptible.
It does exist. The question you should be asking is not what it? WHERE CAN IT BE FOUND?
His question is correst and I would say most dont really know what god is.God is not what is most important for that person.
Dent has absolutely no idea what god is.
As I said above, you are not Him. Where were you when He created the world? What advice did you give Him when he placed the stars in the heavens?
Why is it so hard to understand that God is not known and misunderstood?
'The kingdom of god is within" Jesus
'I tell you you are allgod" Jesus
Why do you keep insisting that Jesus talked non sense as I speak the same thing.
God can be known and thats what is called enlightenment.
I am the enlightened one ranked over most editions of the Bible,learn from me as I am a knower of god and you are not.
Where did Jesus tell you to tell other messnger of god that they are the sons of devil you sick man.?
Sir Dent, don't you know Christ means enlightened one, why can't you see truth in MohitMisra Words.
The same reason why the Jews did not believe him is why you also do not believe.
@Mohitmisra I did leave a question for you in the thread a while aback, I will bump it for you to respond please.
Mohit claims to be God. There is only one God. Mohit is not Him.
Mohit uses the bible to support his position, but only tiny bits and pieces. Fo instance, when Jesus saaid, "the kingdom of God is within you," who was he talking to?
He also said, "Except your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees, you will not see the kingdom of God." By Mohit's own words, he is exactly like the pharisees who went around speaking of how holy they are and how enlightened they are. They claimed to be something higher than what they were.
Sir Dent, I know you as a christian there things will be hard to swallow.
Me myself was a good christian until, The Lord showed me how false christianity is. They have left the Simplicity of The Christ and made a complex religious system, wholly abandoning The Christ while keeping the name so as to deceive.
Thus I have left christianity to follow the Spirit of truth only.
Now I have found that there are quite a few who actually follow The same truth as I but from totally different background. And the Christ was and is being preached but with a different title.
Not withstanding that even they also created religion, whose purpose is to deceive.
Say all this to confirm that Mohit words are not at all strange to those who have found the Christ, in what ever name they may call Him it is still, the enlightenment of the Spirit of truth.
For it is the Spirit that matters and not the names.
So I say, I am god, Mohit is god, and you too are god also.
Unlike us you don't know it, but just like the Christ, we cannot deny ourselves.
I wish you sir will search yourself, and you too will find the Christ, not without but within.
And your testimony will be indeed Yes I am God and therefore I will not die like a man.
For the Christ purpose is to show you your real and true self.
Oh how religion hides that truth.
And how would you logically explain how a person is unable to find themselves without believing in your Christ?
You see marine people love lies more than truth, once someone begin to love truth them they will begin to know Christ.
If that is not logical enough to someone I just cannot help them anymore.
Why do you think a person needs someone else to find their own truth? You aren't being very logical.
There is only one truth, you know it when you know it.
You think lies and speak lies and you know it. How is that you don't know truth?
So are you saying that if someone put a fully loaded 9 mm handgun to your head and pulled the trigger, you will not die?
Fo instance, when Jesus saaid, "the kingdom of God is within you," who was he talking to?
The kingdom of god is within you is what Jesus said and not within me and only me.
He was saying this to all of humanity.
God is everything ,a human who has awakened to the god in him and out side of him is an enlightened one a knower of god like Jesus, Like me and like many others.
If god is not everything them he is not omnipresent .
You don't know god why cant you speak the truth for once , why keep lying to yourself.?
Jesus also claimed to be the son of god and this planet has witnessed many masters before and after him.Read about other religions to expand your limited knowledge and understanding.
In Hinduism there is Shiv Ho Hum - meaning am Shiva or I am god , this was much before Jesus came o this planet.
Mohit uses the bible to support his position, but only tiny bits and pieces
My work is ranked over every single edition of the Bible.
See what I mean? Jesus not one time spoke about how holy and righteous He was. He always lifted up the Father. Mohit lifts up himself.
You joker its a library ranking , humans are ranking my work.GOD OR THE FATHER IS DOING THIS.
Do you think its some big joke to get ranked over every edition of the Holy Bible?
Jesus said I am the son of god , does that mean he said he was holy or evil?
"Me and my father are one" I am the Light" are these definItions evil?
You are unable to comprehend god and spirituality doesn't mean everyone else is .
You are the one acting holy when you are not , holding a Bible in your hand and calling an enlightened poet working for god a son of a devil.
Sorry missed it will look it up.Whats the name of the topic ?
Exactly you have no idea what god is, you are just confirming your ignorance .
Nothing will change my belief and faith, I have faith in the LORD forever
You only need to rely on belief if you don't really know something. And if you don't or can't know, what's the purpose of belief. I'm an atheist by reason of the lack of evidence, and the default position is that you don't believe things without some evidence.
That's an important and reliable way of negotiating our way around the world and gives us the basis of growing our knowledge. The believing viewpoint instead says "believe something until it's proved to be wrong" which I find unreasonable and unworkable because it opens the way to gullibility and credulity.
I'm open to be persuaded of anything but to do the persuading there has to be something more than an appeal to faith or belief. I don't have a psychological need for belief in a deity because my morality comes from my values and ethical principles which would be seriously weakened if I had to rely on a religious book or institution to inform me.
Religious and spirtitual books inspire man to meditate and find god, you got to find your own proof, experieance god to know what god is and then that belief is one of knowing for certin without any doubts.
A spiritual book written by an enlightened one will reaffirm your ethical principals rather weeken them.
If someone provided me with a very good proof for the existance of God, I'd have to start believing in him.
It is said that Thomas wouldn't believe that Christ has risen until he put his hand inside the wounds. To ask for proof is acceptable to God. However it is always Gods prerogative as to show himself or not.
If I were carried away on a UFO, I would know that they exist because I would have seen it with my own eyes.
Other people would not believe even if they were also carried away. They would argue that they had hallucinated the event. Even after you have seen the evidence it will still require faith on your part to accept it as real.
What does he look like? What does the other ones look like when they said that we were made in their image?
but sometimes when you choose a field fo study in Science, the choice itself is based on your preference and sometimes scientist also preempt what is the outcome of experiment,
I am just saying that in all we do, we cant be at all very scientific (logical) so to speak, we first have faith in what we believe in and then proceed, faith is everything...
There is a difference in having faith in yourself and a faith in a mystical entity.
it is the same thing, we all use faith first in every decision we make etc,. or in what we believe in
CAGSIL, hmm, how are you today>
Finding that God is all life all earth all humanity unto Jesus the holy spirit. Knowing God is all human life all truth birth of all humanity. Until we all find the true God Jesus the holy spirit of all living human life the suffering killing war hate dying will go on .
The god is life human birth is freedom in Jesus from all life lived in hell on earth today. By God we are all human birth right yet the hate killing of God life goes on in humanity.
Truth birth life God is God in Jesus the holy spirit human birth life care healing of the whole human race. be blessed God loves heals frees to all human life. amen
Nothing would remove me from my belief system. I'm at a point in my life where I realize how much of my youth I wasted pondering this point. I'll not waste what little time I may have left on continuing to try and figure it out.
In my opinion God is the only way for me. You can critize Him all you want, but His belief system gives you a choice you believe or you don't.
That's how I have seen it too, religionists will never give up their illogical beliefs, they say so themselves. No evidence or proof would suffice!
This is a declaration of insanity!
I saw 4 people get saved last sabbath. I wish you could have seen it.
Wrong again! I believe in many things, but no religion.
Because I exclude your nonsense does not mean I "do" some other religion. I believe in imperical evidence.
I believe in science, medicine, bioligy, psychology, meditation, you know, all the things you have to deny to keep your belief!
calm down mark. I read you like the thin transparent book you are.
You know, maybe god is Mark too? Could you give me a list of hubbers who are Mark? It may be easier!
yes, You, Q, Quill, Mark, and maybe marine when you are on acid.
It amazes me how people who are in denial about reality behave. It is just amazing!
Yes some hate filled fantasy seems to leap in and focus on their biggest fear, in this case, the information that Mark Knowles brings to the forums.
look at you praise your alter ego. Mark, you are amazing
... and is Mark Mark too?
Talk about make a fool of yourself! You have obviously never read anyones hubs. Why does that not surprise me!
Yours and Marks are right on "Q".
I doubt you will get that.
My ultra-religious mother resorts to the same adolescent behavior when she knows she has no real debate.
Poor buggers, defending this undefendable hate filled crud!
When I look at a map, all I see is us.
In america, the best humor is sometimes that at which you laugh at yourself. Its a shame we don't know more about you guys. You should invent something useful.
You have to be joking! We are only 20 million, yet we lead the world in sport, medicine and inventions. Take a look at Australia's medical inventions. We have some of the best brain and heart surgeons in the world, we invented the lawn mower, rotary clothes line, several heart valves, new building materials to name a few off the top of my head. We have had the best financial management in the world through the current crisis which has passed us by with three consecutive rises in the last three quarter of earnings, I could go on, and on, and on... I have a hub of course....
sure I was joking. I just like to return the favor every now and again.
That is cool. As you can see I like to promote my little country. Did you know that Western Australia alone is much bigger than texas?
In the interest of honesty, as wonderful as Australia is and as big as it is there is nowhere to live apart from around the huge coastline. The middle of Australia is hell for humans!
I ate the butt of some huge ant there once. It tasted like honey. You mean the "bush" is hot.
Yep the local term "bush" means somewhere away from the major cities too, but you are right. If you are going bush you may well be going nowhere near a bloody bush! You can die of sun exposure in a dessert in the "bush" that has no shade for hundreds of miles. Funny the way we have altered meanings to suit our humor.
all i need is a cool idea . you got one? i like it. its mine now. that simple
Tried the local bush "tucker" eh?
I couln't come at the ants!
Like I told an aboriginal mate of mine "You fellas musta been hungry when you went diggin for these guys!"
reported the spam on the last page. He spammed everywhere.
Just a spammer SirDent. He spammed all the forums with links.
Glad I missed it. They usually wait until Saturday to spam.
It is Saturday here, I may track the url and leave them a note telling them we do not appreciate having the forums spammed.
I know it is Saturday in Australia, but it is still Friday evening in California where HubPages is headquartered.
What were they spamming, is their post still on the forum?
Just interested, it's 02.18 am here Saturday...
It seems to have gone. He spammed all the current forums for some crap product, I went along behind banning every post as I thought I should as a member.
It would take nothing to change my beliefs. I am my own person and I don't follow others. I am not a follower.
What would it take to change your beliefs?
That's easy, a Klondike bar.
Cheap! I would have held out for a milkshake with that.
Yeah, throw in a chili dog and maybe I'd consider pondering the Buhda!
Alright, looks like a lot of folks have put there hearts out there on this one so I'll put the humor aside for a second.
When I jest about easily changing my beliefs, there is a kernel of truth in that statement. I am a self-described Panentheistic Latitudinarian. Which is a mouthful of syllables to explain a very plain way of belief, namely that I believe that The Great Spirit resides inside and outside of the universe. I have a wide acceptance of any other individuals point of view about how their culture sees God, or how they perform Spiritual ritual, as long as it doesn't encourage suffering.
So to change my beliefs really only requires hearing about or seeing someone else's point of view. To shake the foundations of my beliefs, would take a lot more conviction than those salaciously persuasive arguments offered by zealots and atheists.
Mostly I understand that there are a lot of facts about the universe that I don't know. I understand that I have yet to meet one person, or read one book, that has all the answers. I understand that to continue asking questions is at the core of my existence and I believe that despite tragedy and suffering, human beings are still mostly good. I also believe that we all have a piece of the Great Spirit in us and that the Deity is not necessary a creature as most would have you believe. The Great Spirit is anomalous like plasma or electricity.
In some ways it wouldn't take much to change my beliefs, in other ways it's pretty much impossible.
I would have to be convinced beyond all reasonable doubt and be satisfied that there is not any more to the universe than what meets my eye and that there is no inherent purpose in any life to not believe in God any more.
History gets updated sometimes when new knowledge comes along. No doubt fear and hate worked to control the masses, but then along comes psychology and psychiatry and we discover that all that biblical stuff is the result of psychosis. Should have been obvious, but as we were dealing with a world that knew nothing and would believe anything, I guess it was excusable way back then.
To believe any of this crud today just smacks of indoctrination.
I give more importance to the spiritual rather than historical value of the Bible. Many passages are hard and many are not but misundertood as the language is different from what we speak now.It will depend on each persons perspective a,ccordingly he or she will pick up the essence of the book
There are many very wise passages in the Bible.
revelation, usually in the form of catastrophe, can change a person's beliefs.
what would it take to change my beliefs?
well i don't tend to believe as much as think or ponder. I guess my loose beliefs are subject to change at any time. Whether by the work of a Great Destroyer or the remark of a truth-telling person.
anything that caused me to question my beliefs.
Religious or Spirtiual revelation is absolute bliss, man has gained knowledge of the self and the meaning of god.
Have you seen the BBC podcast by Lawrence Kraus? He has won numerous awards for explaining the universe and life to laypersons. It speaks a scientific truth.
I am a believer. Personnally, NOTHING. I Think Jesus is God and I will it it forever lol
I believe. I have no doubt. And my mind is open. Open to new knowledge, open to doubt, and have been for years. And still I believe and I have no doubt.
Give me ability to change time,matter and space and i'll be theist
nothing will change my belief in the divine nature of the human spirit but i refuse to submit to any one doctrine or dogma be it a religion or a scientific theory for all will be replaced by the ascension of the new man/woman in the dawning age.
As a Christian and former pastor, I'm still perplexed by the idea of God and how He chooses to show himself. It seems that everything we attribute to Him could easily be attributed to something else. Like the Baptists stuck in Haiti right now - if/when they get released, God will get the credit. If they don't get released, it will be "God's will".
by secularist104 years ago
Let the madness begin.
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