They should carry this sentence out and televise it so we can see what Islamic law is about.
Also, I think they deserve it. (Must be my darker side... you know, 'eye for an eye'. Especially if they let the girl use the scalpel.
Have a look:
Here we go again.... anti-islamist.... view of our way of life...
The initial brutal attack on the young woman by these men was not instigated by Islam or any other religion, but by there own malicious evil thoughts... jealousy...... how can you condemn a nation by the acts of a handful of evil people.... again Islam comes under fire.
what would you have the courts do with them..... slap their wrist say naughty naughty now off you go and do it again... like they do here !!!!!
what if that was your sister, mother or daughter would you allow the courts to fine them or would you want a fitting punishment... they will not do it again !!!
check the newspapers in the western world you will see atrocities committed by all nationalities and faiths ....
please check your facts fully before you pick on muslims
hey muslima61, Christopher does not seem anti-Islamic to me. Why are you defensive?
Ah, as one of resident Islamic propagandists here, it would make sense you never even read the article as you would have run across this little gem - the bold is mine:
"Sentence was passed on Monday under a rarely invoked Islamic law dating from the 1980s.:
Sorry, but the insanity of Islam and it's so-called "justice" went out with medieval torture and the Inquisition.
Look in the dictionary under the word, "fact" before spouting your propaganda nonsense.
To muslima61: Our sisters, mothers and daughters aren't sold for marriage and guys who do the kidnapping in the western countries go to prison!
Please do not misunderstand me - I am not antimuslim, I believe in live and let live but whichever country muslims have chosen adopt to live in, should endeavour to abide by the rules of the country they reside in. Yes I know that minor and major criminals may well put two fingers in the air in this country but we do not conform to the Islamic law in this country because we have our own according to the country we were born and live in. Hence whatever you may do in your country, irrespective of our private feelings of revulsion, is your business, likewise we expect you to try to conform to our civil laws, likewise, whatever your private feelings might be. There is an expression you may have heard of, 'when in Rome, you do as the Romans do.
Thank God at long last they are not seeing women as second class citizens! That is disgusting what these men did; Hell mend them!
this isnt Islamic law, this is the act of a government not a religion. And if you think this is bad, why dont you check out some of the things christian nations do to prisoners, not pretty stuff,
As a matter of fact,it is been long but i got here today..AN EYE FOR AN EYE.
That is absolutely horrible! That poor girl. I can understand feeling rejected, but to disfigure someone because they won't marry you is insane!
Please quote from Quran for the motive; Quran is the first and foremost source of guidance for the Muslims whatever their denomination. While quoting please give five preceding and five fllowing verses for the usual short context.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
That poor girl... I wouldn't stop at just cutting those men's ears and noses off, I'd be taking a scalpel to their knob as well.
My initial emotion reaction, upon reading the story, makes it hard to disagree with the sentence.
You are NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From the Quoran.... very similar to the Torah, barbaric and gobsmackingly inhumane!
My heart goes out to this young lady. It is sad that people have to exercise their agency to satisfy their hatred. I don't blame religion but them - themselves. They chose a wrong path. In this case I hope they contemplate their loathing nature as they sit and rot in a disfigured state as they have suffered that young lady. It is sad. However, we cannot judge an entire people or faith for the acts of a few. This only self serves those who have a "trip" against faiths or nations. We need to stop, and master self emotion.
No, we need to educate the fundamentalists.
True, but we need to work together in the cause of human rights instead of going back to the Dark Ages and burning people and faiths at the stake. We have discussed tolerance and understanding on another forum just a few hours ago. Unfortuneately no one listens when the wall is up constantly.
As long as religion offers itself in any form as an explanation of life's meaning we as people are in dire straights.
All people have the capacity for evil this is not dependant on any belief system.
The problem is that all major religions psychologically have the "devil in the corner" an other than self escape from personal responsibility. This is where indoctrination and hate can be acted out with impunity.
A sound grasp of brain chemistry and psychology exposes this and no religionist wants to take on even the little that is scientifically known about the sub-conscious, what comes into consciousness or why. Happiness, love, trust, forgivness, ecstasy, charity are half the human equasion. There are good known reasons for the other half and better reasons for most to avoid it.
I know myself to be the axe murderer, the heartless, the hate filled as well. I have consciousness of it, have for a long time so I will never be hate filled, or heartless or even hurt a fly!
My love of life comes from being truly alive, not hiding fearfully behind being "all good"
I say with confidence that we are all the same, good and bad, but not knowing that allows for the acting out of that which we scream about in others.
A psychologist friend of mine said jokingly some time back, that if you could lock up those who are clambering for the blood of someone accused of a crime, you could drop the crime rate by 50% he was referring to the sub-conscious self hate felt by those who had not seen the criminal in themselves. I'll go with that for now thanks.
I've no doubt you have love in your heart. You've told me. If so, then do more in showing love in the world than hammering the views of the few on the forums. In your posts talk about the good things you see in the world. Advocate the "consciousness" you constantly attribute, to all the good in the world, in your posts and hubs. Find joy in this and not in the inhibition of others.
I will not speak for other faiths. However, mine is all about personal responsibility and I have gone in depth with you on this before several times. It would serve no purpose in explaining it again. We are not dependent upon our faith but are dependent upon our agency in life to choose right and wrong.
Portraying those of us of faith as war mongerers, sick and demented is not a suitable path to teaching people what you believe. Especially for someone like you who, obviously, loves life and family. To clump all "Christians" or "Muslims" or or any group together in one neat little package is inherently flawed and shows little "faith" or belief in people, themselves, to eventually find their way in life.
Come on. I accept your beliefs for what they are and don't put them down. Show the same courtesy, please, and lift your own "consciousness" or spirit to a new height of tolerance and understanding.
Forget about what "people think" The beliefs are full of hate and loathing, even if some do not act out of that hate, it is in the very books that espouse these beliefs, therefore not a good starting point.
As for understanding and tolerance. If you are asking me to be tolerant of a belief system that would have me dead because I do not believe it, I think that is reasonable grounds for opposition!
Nope, no good. My faith does not want you dead therefore don't lump me in with that group. Therefore, why show me opposition and why not tolerance?
It is based upon the Bible, Book of Mormon, other sacred texts and modern revelation. They all work in concert and complement one another. I am not afraid to say it. I challenge anyone who says our faith wishes death upon anyone.
OK, I do not know that much about your religion. I spent a week in Salt Lake city in 1977. I saw the various religious sites, saw the tabernacle Choir and did a bus tour. Not much learning!
Salt Lake was at that time the cleanest city I had seen!
What do you guys do with the OT?
We thoroughly study as we do the New Testament. We use the King James Version of the Holy Bible. We believe it to be the "most correct" version of the Bible so far as it has been translated. Yes, modern prophets have clarified many passages that other faith dare not touch due to the same fear of providing agency to the people. We believe Jesus to be Jehovah in the Old Testament.
That is the connection I see lost to most christians, the O.T does not usually get much of an airing.
I studied the bible in English/hebrew/greek for 2 years. I also found that although some changes showed bias, on many areas it redeemed some of the better translations.
True, in fact our Seminary program for youth includes four years. Each year focuses exclusively on the four different areas. Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price (works from Moses not included in the Bible). We believe that in order to understand Christ and the depth of His sacrifice one must personally study all the works and not just selected ones that heirarchy of some faiths dictate.
What fascinates me, is that with that much study you still believe.
What fascinates me is that despite the correct translation of the known fragments of the papyri (sp?) used by Smith to come up with his pearl of great price, they still believe in Joseph Smith.
I used to live near an antiques store called pearls of great value. Truly it was filled with overpriced junk, lol.
The one thing has nothing to do with the other. You keep avoiding a very simple question. How am I supposed to pretend to respect that?
I am trying to see what you are looking for. It's late and I work till noon tomorrow. Please state the question that I am not answering for you and I will answer it tomorrow. I really want to know your question. I am being sincere.
I hope to commune more with you tomorrow.
For the third time, is it not true that the only known remaining fragments which Smith reportedly used to translate his 'pearl of great price' was later translated by experts and found to contain egytptian burial poems or some such?
Sure! There were many parchment fragments in the brief care of Joseph Smith. However, the Pearl of Great Price, was a separate parchment containing doctrines. These doctrines were so ground shaking and so "outside the norm" that it was part of the reason Joseph was murdered. In fact, many participants of the mob that killed him were members of other faiths. This is the cycle of inspiration. When someone is inspired it is usually not accepted well in the world but that person is called to protect and foster it at the expense of even their life. Joseph had many revelations concerning the Bible and many other things. This was not taken well and mostly among the "religious". Through their fear and hatred the Adversary organized them and gave them design to their intents and thoughts. They carried them out to the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
To this day, you will always find religious leaders and scientists with alternate agendas that will diligently state that the translations were false. That's fine as that is their right according to their promptings from the Adversary. However, as explained before I have questioned it. I have tested it. I have studied it and I have prayed about it. Due to my stubborn nature and the Lord's patience with me it took nearly twenty years for a firm testimony to be established within of the truthfulness of these things. Through this, I know that the "scientists" are not lead by science but by the Adversary - in regards to the translations.
I am fully aware that this explanation will not sit well with you and several others reading this, but I know it to be true. It's not placing me above anyone else. It's just that for me, my questions have finally been apeased.
Beware of he who claims to know more than science and lies about what science is doing or not doing.
Cool! Let me try.
Beware of coconut floating in one's cake for it may cause an ingrown toenail.
I'm almost as good don't you think?
Tell us all, Q, why you continue to set out to interfere with my words? Why am I continued to be called a liar by those who know not what they speak of? I'm not sure where you live, but I would never assume to know more about where you live than you. You don't live my faith. That's cool as it is your right as a person - a freedom and privilege that is enjoyed. I sustain and support that. However, not living by the dictates that I live by does not give anybody the overriding knowledge that all my words are lies. That is like walking with blinders at the sides of our eyes. It keeps us from having greater perception and view of the world around us. Above all it becomes a danger to us personally. This is why I love learning. I learn all schools of thought. I learn what science I can get my hands on. Why? To enlarge my perception of the world around me. Because of that my own opinions and view of certain things continue to evolve.
I have always been courteous to you and continually the same has not been reciprocated. It is sad to see and it disappoints me that I have not been able to make amends with you - even with all my pleas of tolerance and understanding.
Sorry for the loss.
This is uncceptable, and hateful of you, and this way of thinking is dangerous to society.
Contrary to the belief in science trying to disprove religion, scientific methods cannot be applied to imaginary things that are not in any way plausible.
Scientists do not bother with it at all unless told their 30 years of experience is worth nothing cos the fairy did it all!
Yes. I cannot deny the things I have witnessed. As much as I have in my younger days the Father has been patient in my own stubborness. He has taken that and time and time again manifested truths to me little by little until I had an abiding foundation of the reality of the Son, Jesus Christ. Yes, I've studied at length. Not just the Bible and not just all the works I've mentioned, but a whole host of works and histories. That's how stubborn I am. All through this stubborness He has been melding my metal down with fire until I was ready for the call He has entrusted me with.
That's just me and my own answers. Yes, I have a growing and evolving belief in the Father and the Son. A deeper appreciation and understanding day by day.
I have not been to Salt Lake City for almost a couple decades. I do miss the mountains, though. Many fond memories. Sometime, I'd love to visit Australia. I hear it's beautiful as well.
Yes it is a wonderfully diverse country, big modern cities and quaint little towns, very cosmopolitan (180 languages as well as many aboriginal languages that are still spoken. A broadly thinking innovative people too.
The Northern parts are big for spirit and soul... moving, frightening, raw.
I love this big lump of dessert with the green fringe!
The mountains as I recall were breathtaking, as Australia has much smaller mountains, more like hills!
Does that mean that if you found solid empirical proof that it was in fact just your response to the problem of religiosity and all an illusion built as a device by your subconscious you would still believe it?
Yes, I would still believe because man's understanding of proof, on many levels, is an evolving process. Evolution, for instance, is evolving. New things are being discovered all the time. What one might accept as solid proof today may prove something totally different ten years from now. Evidence is a perception to many people. That's why some accept and some don't. As I see key events unfold and foresee the events to come all things create one eternal round for me. In other words the questions that have plagued my past have been answered. That, to me, has been the true personal miracle. Each of us must find our own personal answers. I found mine.
Well for me, without scientific method we have a void. I do not fill that void, nor feel the need to. I cannot apply scientific method to religion as it is not offered as fallible, so it no longer has any validity for me past that point.
Psychology on the other hand explains religion as it does other systems of thought.
Believe nothing merely because you have been told it.
Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher.
But whatever, after due examination and analysis,
you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -
that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.
1. Spend 5 minutes at the beginning of each day remembering
we all want the same things (to be happy and be loved)
and we are all connected to one another.
2. Spend 5 minutes breathing in, cherishing yourself; and, breathing out
cherishing others. If you think about people you have difficulty cherishing,
extend your cherishing to them anyway.
3. During the day extend that attitude to everyone you meet.
Practice cherishing the "simplest" person (clerks, attendants, etc)
or people you dislike.
4. Continue this practice no matter what happens or what anyone does to you.
These thoughts are very simple, inspiring and helpful.
The practice of cherishing can be taken very deeply if done wordlessly,
allowing yourself to feel the love and appreciation that
already exists in your heart.
The Paradoxical Commandments (Do It Anyway)
People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.
Love them anyway.
If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
Do good anyway.
If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies.
The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.
Do good anyway.
Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
Be honest and frank anyway.
The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down
by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.
Think big anyway.
People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs.
Fight for a few underdogs anyway.
What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
People really need help but may attack you if you do help them.
Help people anyway.
Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth.
Give the world the best you have anyway.
I think he may be gone PB, I still wonder about the amount of time spent learning all this religious stuff. I know enough to see that many religionists are well versed in the tomes, but with so many changes, so many books included and left out, so much confusion amongst believers as to what "the truth" is, it astounds me that anyone could say. "OK, I read it or was taught it and it means exactly this and I will now devote my life to it as I now, out of thousands of possibilities am absolutely right."
It also beggars belief that anyone could believe any of the bible when it is so psychotic in it's depiction of a god. Such a god, needy of worship, threatening death to the disobedient or non follower, ordering the murder of men women and infants, slaughtering whole races of people, causing the earth to have floods and all natural disasters sounds like what it is .... ballderdash!
This bronze aged thinking will not go away easily. Indoctrination is a very effective tool.
Fortunately science is reaching a point where theories are melding as they do in science and we are pretty close to knowing one hell of a lot more about life and death.
2 Australian scientists discovered the cause of death at a cellular level and have opened the door to longevity. The next 5 years of this study are under way. Lawrence Krauss has explained the latest in scientific knowledge of our universe including some bold statements about religion. (Like all real scientists, he was not interested in disproving religion until attacked by the usual loons.) His retaliation is also a good watch. There is plenty known about life, and plenty more to learn, but I ain't listenin to no psychotic invisible tooth fairy! Unless of course there was even one item of proof in the last 2000 years!
I think it's amazing and wonderful that He has found us fit and ready for further scientific knowledge. In so doing He has put in place the events leading up to certain scientists discovering new things to learn.
Thanks for sharing that with us about those scientists.
As does the 'Truth'. Pretty sick stuff.
There is exciting stuff to look forward to, Earnest, and indoctrination is amazingly effective. The fear factor and the comfort factor -in order to give it up they'd have to face a fear AND lose an imaginary best buddy. It's tough.
Really, super weird though when the con has been completely proven.
ahh, Islam, the religion of criminals, rapists and pedophiles=)
Omg I am speechless after reading that article. Shocking is putting it mildly.
Cut off ears and noses!
Nobody could quote from Quran the first and foremost source of guidance of Muslims whatever the denomination.
They mostly quote things from hearsay; very bad
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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