I notice that being an Atheist is becoming a fashion lol....
What if bible was telling truth ?
The Bible is full of divine knowledge, just some historical ideas are debatable and inaccurate.
I would like to learn...Can you quote just 1 false thing bible said ?
This planet is 6,000 years old ?
"The only way to the father is through me" Jesus
I don't remember reading anywhere in the Bible where it says the planet is 6,000 years old. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that to be an interpretation (not MY interpretation) of the Biblical time line. I do not agree with this interpretation, and believe it to be the result of mistranslation/misunderstanding of the Scripture, particularly the words "day" and "year."
This is the part where it should be noted that while I'm an avid reader of the Bible, and believe its message, I ALSO believe that most of what the major supposedly "Christian" churches are teaching is either pure tradition (not God-based or Scripture-based, thus ONLY for the purpose of furthering the church), or absolute rubbish (i.e., blasphemy, to use an out-of-date term).
As to your other example: I think this is an excellent one. Of course, immediately, I think we understand that Jesus didn't mean literally "through him," since we can't pass through his stomach or any other such thing; so we know he's speaking in a metaphorical or symbolic way here.
Okay. So a lot of people take this to mean that you need to be a part of his so-called church in order to receive salvation. That's one interpretation, but it isn't mine.
Jesus challenged the Pharisees, Sadducees, and religious leaders of his day; he even had some pretty scathing things to say about their abuses of power, misunderstanding of the laws of God, and lack of love for their fellow man. It seems Jesus didn't like church any more than a lot of people today, and for some of the same reasons! Jesus' church had different purposes and teachings from the "churches" today, the writings of (oft-suppressed) early church fathers (1-3 AD) shows this. This leads me to believe that Jesus wasn't particularly impressed with what "church" anyone belonged to. It seems to me that his peaceful nature; his desire to share love of God, self, and others; and his lack of fear of human authority (especially when it was wrong) were meant to be an example. So when he said "only through me..." I sincerely believe that he meant something that could have been better translated "Only by following my example..."
How else could one commune with something Holy and Pure, if one were not so himself?
Just my humble opinion. Meant to be thoughtful, and not in any way disrespectful or sarcastic.
I enjoyed reading your reply and yes I believe Jesus must have said it as there were frauds misleading people.He must have meant his way of " when thy eye be single" or meditation.
Or he is talking as god when he says I.
Jesus served a very special purpose that no man could have ever fulfilled, and that is live this life without sin.
Thus being found worthy to retrieve the light of the Christ from the grave.
He became the first born of all of the sons of God, us.
Now that his work is completed there should be on death for the sons of God, for he has broken the cycle of birth life death. By stripping death of it's power.
When Jesus spoke he specificky said things that would cause men to err.
For he knows that they cannot receive truth, for they are not from above, but are from the kingdom of darkness and it will remain so for darkness cannot inherit light.
When he preach it was with the purpose to fulfill the end, for indeed men follow his flesh in the flesh instead of Following him in the Spirit.
So when he said "I am the only way to the father"
That statement means one thing to the sons of God, but another to the sons of darkness.
Both of them going their separate ways and fulfilling all things.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! I am too; I love reasonable, thoughtful conversation.
It can be difficult to determine when Jesus is talking about himself or God when he says "I". This is how I conceptualize it. I believe that Jesus understood the connection between God and man, and knew that his (Jesus') will was in line with God's will, and that his (Jesus') actions showed it. In this sense, they would have been interchangeable anyway.
Also, The Bible points out that "ye are gods," (I want to say in Psalms or Isaiah, I'm sure someone can help me out there) in reference to us; if I remember correctly, Jesus even cites that passage at some point. So, there are two things going on when Jesus says "I": (1) Humans are already gods, because they are made in God's image--which is to say that they are possessed of the same kind creative powers, on a microcosmic scale, as God--and (2) Jesus has aligned his will/ego with that of God, and so when he speaks/acts he carries the message/will of God, and they are, in that way, a unity.
I think of it as a great king ruling over his country; he cannot leave his throne, because there are important things happening at home, but he must also act on a situation far away. This king has a trusted proxy, a person who--in all things--knows the king's heart and will, and would never act outside of it. The king gives to this outstanding soul a ring embellished with the royal seal, and sends him to the faraway land to act in his stead. The seal-bearer goes forth, and for all intents and purposes, although he is NOT the king, he IS--his words are accepted as though they were spoken by the king, his laws enacted as though with royal decree, and all favors due the kind upon his arrival are the seal-bearer's right.
As always, with respect,
You words are those of one who have seen the one true light from heaven.
I will be happy if you can give me the exact age of the planet...LOL
Also, I will be happy if you can explain to me why the following is false: "The only way to the father is through me" Jesus
I dont know the exact age and the Holy Vedas supposed to be roughly 13,000 BC say the same thing, who can tell?
Shamanism tens of thousands of years old.
Jesus was an enlightened one, his philosophy is identical to Hinduism.Man has gained enlightenment or become the Light long before Jesus spoke these words and many have after him without knowing anything or much about Jesus.
Got any proof that this is not true?
Because this is THE defining statement in scripture, and NO OTHER religious icon has ever made it before or since....
Indeed, it's the ONLY thing that causes non believers to hate Christ and his followers, because it can only be answered in one of three ways:
Jesus was a liar
Jesus was a lunatic
Jesus was the son of God
Which will you decide is true, in light of the things we know about the life and times of Jesus?
I see nowhere in the bible that says anything about the age
Not very good at observing, are you?
"In 1738, De Vignoles stated that he had accumulated no fewer than 200 computations of the date of creation, all based upon various diverse interpretations of the Bible." ~~ wiki
That is becasue uyou are reading a watered down version. It's in there.
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
How is the mountain moving going?
In the meantime, about a Billion prayerful souls are praying probably hourly and starving to death.
Yes we live in a "what if" world because even scientists are still doubting of a lot of things.
Yeah, geez! What if!?
There are 49,267 contradictions in the new testament alone!
Great and this is absolutely false. Why not spending some time reading it instead of just spreading false teachings about. If the bible was so false, why is it the most read book in the whole world? The most translated as well? The fun in this is that even some Atheist read the Bible lol
You can just quote here 1 of the contradictions you are talking about...Maybe you are talking about another book.
So, it's fashionable to think?
We would ALL know, then. There would be no question about it.
The Bible is telling the truth
Man is blind.
Man will forget God and will create Churches.
The bible is a beautiful hoax, to keep humankind in order.
We Atheists are the only ones that 'See'
The more people read the Bible, the more blind they get, it seems ....
Tantrum, I love to read your posts and your poetry; often, as above, they are one and the same. Your views are always fascinating, though I admit I don't always understand.
In light of that, I would love to hear more about how you think of this (what you wrote above). You say, "The Bible is telling the truth. Man is blind. Man will forget God and will create Churches." This I totally agree with! This isn't all the Bible has to say, but it IS one of the most important things, especially for the modern day.
So, is it the case that the Bible isn't true in all its parts? I can accept that. But then the question becomes how do we separate what is true from what is not? The existence of God is a consistent postulation throughout the Bible. If the other thing is true, why isn't that one?
"The Bible is a beautiful hoax, to keep humankind in order." This is a beautiful line of poetry! (or at least it seems to me) And while I understand what you mean (the Bible certainly HAS been used against mankind), I cannot agree that it is a hoax. I'm not even exactly sure how you mean that. Surely the Bible exists, and it is a very old document (although much-changed over time), and indeed it espouses a set of spiritual laws while it proclaims a direction for the destiny of mankind. Whether or not you agree with what it says on a spiritual level, would you agree with those points? If so, what do you mean by "hoax"? If not, why not?
Of course, in my opinion I "See" what I consider Truth, even though I believe in God strongly; however, I agree with you that atheists also See something quite valuable (God tells us to reason with Him). Perhaps the Truth is large, and we can each see small parts of it.
What do you think?
I say the Bible is a hoax, because that's what it is!. The Scriptures, although in some way are true, or have true facts,have been used to hold people under strict ethic and moral laws in order to dominate them. first the Jews and then Christians. Fear of God is a powerful tool.
I think Truth is relative. But you can only see your relative Truth, using logic. Nothing logic in Believing something you can see, for it's nonexistent
Thank you for answering
You said: "The Scriptures, although in some way are true, or have true facts, have been used to hold people under strict ethic and moral laws in order to dominate them. first the Jews and then Christians. Fear of God is a powerful tool." Absolutely! There is no arguing that, and those uses of the Scripture are abhorrent, foul, disgusting instances of *human* history. However, I contend that what people have ended up doing with the scriptures does not necessarily reflect on the veracity of those scriptures, merely of the small-mindedness of the people wielding them. IMO It is God's wish that we are in awe of Him, that we choose to love Him, and that we do not wish to disappoint Him--not that we live in fear.
You also said: "I think Truth is relative. But you can only see your relative Truth..." I also agree here, I can only see what I can see; and I figure the same goes for everybody else. The Truth is bigger than our understanding is capable of encompassing.
Finally, you said: "Nothing logical in Believing something you can't see, for it's nonexistent." Well...here's where we differ a bit. First, I believe that logic is not all that's necessary to understand the Truth. IMO (which I know, is only at best capable of being one eight-billionth of the total truth, if I"m even remotely right ) there is a balance between logic and intuition (reason/emotion, for the qabbalists out there, Hod/Netzach) that serves as human understanding of Truth (remember, Truth is bigger than we can understand--or relative). As to God's nonexistence...well, I think we can disagree and be friends, if you like. No one has disproven His existence to me (just as no one has proven Him to you); I find it hard to believe that a random explosion resulted in the intricacy of the universe *shrug* but that's just me.
As to believing in that which I can't see: I can't see Love either, but I can feel it. And I'm sure you can too.
Thanks for the great conversation! I have to get to work on the holiday dinner, but I'll check back later. I hope you're having a great day!
I have no doubt that the bible is telling the truth, in my
opinion. Merry Christmas.. you might say its our history book to the past. That is what makes us stronger. Knowing God/Jesus did to help us. Jesus died on the cross for us. He even forgave the Romans for killing him in public. What a hero, in my opinion.
Merry Christmas to all.
Ya, if they killed him in private, he wouldn't forgive them. Or wouldn't be a hero?
I have no doubt he would, he would forgave them. I have no doubt he felt hurt/fear that millions of people would be psyched
about what was happening. That had to have been a horrible situation to endure. Being killed slowly in front of millions and his mother and 2 fathers. God and stepfather .
Hi nikki !
I thought Jesus was killed by the Jews. Pontius Pilate,washed his hands, and left Jesus to the Sanhedrin's mercy. They decided to condemn Jesus.
tantrum.. to my knowledge the Romans did the killing. And, left him there on the cross.
well the Sanhedrin decided to kill him,with the Roman's acceptance. He was messing up with the Hebrew religion too much.
At that time Jerusalem was part of the Roman Empire. That's why some people say Romans killed him. but It was his own people that did it. Of course the Romans decided it was a good thing to do,as a revolutionary as Jesus was messing up with their plans as well.
There plans were not productive. I am glad Jesus tried to change it. Also.. his own people partnered probably with the Romans. However, a few of his followers felt bad/guilty of what they did. The Romans killed him for spite. They were jealous of what Jesus stood for. How he interacted with his people. His kindness.
If Jesus was a god, how could he die? Gods can't die, can they? Even if he was a god in a mans body, Jesus could not die.
Yeah, what if the Bible is telling the truth? What then, aetheists?
That God sent Jesus into the world to pay the sin-debt for all mankind and that except we receive this gift our sins cannot and will not be forgiven, therefore we are headed into eternal damnation.
What sort of psychotic god would send people to eternal damnation? Do you believe in a psychotic god, or do you not understand the meaning of psychotic, because that is a precise description of the sort of control you are promoting.
The God that would send people to eternal damnation is the God who said, "...the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Psalm 1:5KJV
I believe in the true God and His Kingdom is what I'm promoting.
Maybe you're headed there!. Being a Child of God !
I'm not a child.
So I pass !
And what if Islam is telling the truth? What then, Christians?
All religious books have the same truth, god exists.
God is a divine light and not an earthly light,omnipotent omnipresent and omniscient, and science cannot measure it as its beyond the grasp of our science till date..
After you read you will see that they all talk of a divine light.
This is one similarity for you.
( juts copy pasted from my book and its bold there,dont mean to shout)
“BEHOLD BUT ONE IN ALL THINGS: IT IS THE
SECOND THAT LEADS YOU ASTRAY”
“I AM THY SHIELD AND THY EXCEEDINGLY
THE HOLY BIBLE
“THE FIRST LAW OF DYNAMICS:
ENERGY CAN NEITHER BE CREATED NOR BE DESTROYED.
SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT ENERGY, THAT THING
WHICH ANIMATES THE BODY, AT THE TIME OF DEATH?
WHEN WE FINALLY COME TO OUR SENSES, KRISHNA SAYS
WE NEVER RETURN TO THIS MATERIAL WORLD, THIS
PAINFUL PLAYGROUND WE MISTAKENLY CALL HOME”
THE HOLY BHAGWAT GITA
“UNTO ALLAH IS YOUR RETURN AND
HE IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS”
THE HOLY QURAN
Why does everything have to be either one or the other ??
I have a relationship with two sons.I have diffrent relationship with each one. They each have a diffrent prospective of who I am.
Maybe it does not have to be either "or" the other concerning who God is ???
He has my permission to do whatever he wants to do.
But I don't think that he needs "our" permission.
Have they gone to war with each other over the differences? Will one burn in a lake of fire if the other is right?
They haven't done that YET but if that is what pleases them to do?? If it were only the two of them I might be able to correct the situation. But when they each have their own family with multitudes of descendants, and those descendants swear to some perverted idea of what they think my sons said about me.??? IF I could do anything; I don't know what I would do
No worries, Jerami. I was merely pointing out the comparisons of people with gods and their disproportionate characteristics.
I seldom become offended and attempt to not offend.
I can usually understand where people are coming from with diffrent views on most subjects. I don't have to agree to understand.
Like Forest Gump said, "life is like a box of chocolates"
It's all good. And I'm not going to limit myself by eating only those with pecans in them.
what if bible WAS telling truth, and religious leaders misunderstood it?
The word WHAT "IF" seems a little out of place in this context.
I wonder what the odds would be of them getting "EVERY THING" right. I would bet on them having missed the mark on at least a couple of important facts or we would not have so much confusion as to what TRUTH is. Too many denominations for any one of them to have absolute TRUTH
Oh my. I'm neither an atheist NOR a literal believer in the Christian Bible. Whatever shall I do?
I'm not religious but I will acknowledge that the bible has many moral truths.
You dont need to be a litteral believer...lol bible is about believing in Jesus...
It seems to me that the Bible, at least in some instances, WAS/IS telling the truth.
Practically speaking, it gives a thorough and accurate description of the symptoms of leprosy and how to diagnose it. It lists a number of things that have been proven to either prohibit or encourage health; for instance, we know now that red meat and pork are not very good for us, but vegetables, grains, and herbs are best, as the Bible states. the book of Job states clearly that earth is round and seems to be "hung on nothing," long before there was a telescope to tell anyone so. These are only a few examples.
Besides those things, the general message of the Bible: that to love your neighbor by non-judgment and peaceful living is what leads to human salvation (however it's defined), is also true.
Unfortunately, the Bible is also subject to attack because the book has been mutilated over hundreds of years by bad translations and political agendas. Most people read an incomplete version of the Bible, and unless they are able to read the book in its original languages (Hebrew and Greek), or use a Strong's Concordance, they are probably missing the point.
Did you know that the gospel has been translated by 4 different guys all telling the same thing? Are you sure this book has really been mutilated or it's just what you think ?
I'm not sure *exactly* what you're saying here. But I'm going to attempt an answer anyway, please forgive me if I've misconstrued your point. I would love to hear further explanation on this point.
First, although this will sound nitpicky, I do not mean it to be...but there (traditionally speaking) are four Gospels, not just one. If the "4 different guys" you're referring to are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; they didn't translate the same gospel (at least not all of them, Matthew is questionable, though); instead they each wrote separate accounts of what they witnessed Jesus doing. If that's not what you're talking about, please let me know.
Either way, that's not necessary to answer your question of whether or not I think or know the Bible is mutilated. There's actually a written history of some of the mutilation it's been through: Google the apocryphal texts, and you'll see that early churches used them, then decided not to (usually for political reasons).
Some books (like the book of Enoch,the addition to Daniel called "Bel and the Dragon" among others)were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and are even quoted by Jesus in the New Testament; this shows us they would have been a part of the Bible that Jesus read (which would only have consisted of the Old Testament at the time), and that they were relevant enough to him to reference. In addition, the Bible points out that Jesus had 12 disciples (and even more followers). As would be natural, MANY of them wrote about their experiences with Jesus and his teachings; however, MOST of those writing have been suppressed, destroyed, or made out to be laughable by the church. These texts include the gospels of Thomas, Bartholomew, and Mary Magdalene to name a few. Look up an early church father by the name of Papias; unfortunately, most of HIS work has been destroyed as well, but there's just enough left to give some hints about what has been suppressed and why.
Does it strike you as odd that there is a 13 year gap in what is told about the life of Jesus in Bible? After all, if the scripture is to be believed, humanity waited for him to arrive from the time of God's curse on Adam and Eve, until the star appeared in the East. We are told details of his life even in the womb! But there is no whisper (in the Bible) of what he was doing as a teenager. I assure you, however, there IS a record of that time, and it explains why Jesus' teachings are so connected with those of the Buddha. I will not go into it now, I have to get to work on dinner and things, but in other parts of the world at the time, Jesus was known as Issa. That might help you do a little research on your own.
Finally, if you need evidence of mutilation by translation, just grab a Strong's Concordance and look up the words "hell," "day," "Satan," and "damnation"--really any others that stick out to you; when you see the meanings of the original words,then re-read the passages with the original words, you might be surprised.
These books and ideas were suppressed because they would have empowered people and pointed out certain fundamental truths that the *human* church didn't want its constituents to know; if the people had known the true teachings, they would not have bothered with the power-trips, money-mongering, and pompous-assery that became the *human* church.
It is good that you question! Don't believe me, or anyone! Read it yourself! And if you find out I am wrong, show me, and I will be glad to receive wisdom!!
Merry Christmas!! (even though it's really not Jesus' birthday, we CAN celebrate the spirit)
I have read of accounts that are in ancient Tibetan books in monasteries that tell of Issa and his visit to the east during his teenage years...he was learning about the eastern philosophies and healing arts in preparation for his mission.
One account was told that he was nearly killed by the Brahmans in India for speaking against the caste system and how it did not fit into the universal laws of the souls need to evolve..
One and the same! Indian merchants also witnessed his crucifixion and brought the news back. He left teachings there as well, and he was very much against the caste system, since he believed that wisdom, salvation, and God's love were for everyone.
I hope you're having a happy day!
My brother-in-law taught himself how to read Arameic so he do his own translating, no kidding!
That's awesome! I bet he's told you some interesting things about the Old Testament!
He-he. Good luck playing Mark, Mohit
Merry Xmas to you by the way
I read the bible some years ago and have debated aspects of it with friends many times over. First off, the bible is mostly a history book of the Hebrew people. It is an account of their journey and conflicts they had with other peoples in their region(middle East. Their account of their history is just that. Their account. I have a problem with the time line from Adam and Eve up to the birth of Jesus which is supposed to be aprox 6k years. If they were the first humans then how do you account for the Chinese who have a recorded history much older than that. Also where does the dinosaurs fit in? Why no mention of them?
And how would the world react if they were to see it wasn't?
The main reason I'm asking "WHAT IF", is "Is it possible that scientists may be wrong"...If yes most of our beliefs could be wrong too lol....
What if . . . there was no Bible at all? Where shall I refer my moral conduct?
Morality or I prefer to say true Goodness, does not come from written or spoken words. But from a heart that have seen the light of God through Christ( truth) thus becoming pure.
You should all pay very close attention to mohitmisra, he is a bestselling author
He has.... The light!!!
The Chinese dinosaurs would come out of their hiding places, and Mark Knowles would be a rich man.
We can all brainstorm better threads. We know the outcome each and every time. Hopefully we all are bright and intelligent enough, and charitable enough, to remember to treat our neighbors with respect. That would include respecting their beliefs in hopes of the same courtesy reciprocated. This tolerance, in the end, will serve the greater good than the inevitable backlash which is sure to happen. My Christian views are set and I will not be challenged but I do still respect all systems of beliefs expressed here and abroad. Even those of atheism. Cool! Fine! Whatever makes the individual happy and content should be reason enough to be supportive of that person being such. None of us, though, should close ourselves off of the possibilities of further truths out there which may alter our present views. To do so will only hinder one's own progress and tolerance.
Since I don't support the use of "X" when referring to Christmas I will just say "Merry Christmas" to all and hope that everyone will accept it in the charitable spirit of goodwill in which it was extended.
Now, after digging out ten foot drifts I must conjure up some cocoa!
There has not been one field of science which has undertaken the task of dis-proving the Bible. Which has accomplished that task.
The things within the Bible which can be verified, have and still are being verified. Everything from Agriculture, mining for ore, etc. including surrounding histories. Many have confirmed the bibles discussions of them and their histories.
So if all that is true,... then why not the rest?
And maybe if the bible is so false why not rewriting all countries constitutions because most of them are inspired of...and laws etc...
'Finally, you said: "Nothing logical in Believing something you can't see, for it's nonexistent." Well...here's where we differ a bit. First, I believe that logic is not all that's necessary to understand the Truth. IMO (which I know, is only at best capable of being one eight-billionth of the total truth, if I"m even remotely right ) there is a balance between logic and intuition (reason/emotion, for the qabbalists out there, Hod/Netzach) that serves as human understanding of Truth (remember, Truth is bigger than we can understand--or relative). As to God's nonexistence...well, I think we can disagree and be friends, if you like. No one has disproven His existence to me (just as no one has proven Him to you); I find it hard to believe that a random explosion resulted in the intricacy of the universe *shrug* but that's just me.
As to believing in that which I can't see: I can't see Love either, but I can feel it. And I'm sure you can too.'
About Hod & Netzach. Yes, Hod is reason/logic, Netzach is intuition/ art. This for an example. They're many other things as well, as I'm sure you know that each Sephiroth has the whole tree within, and each branch ,the whole tree again and so on, without end.
Anyway, Logic in Kabbalah has to do with the Faith. In this case Jew Philosophy/religion.
So if you believe in something, of course, for the believer (you) it has logic. If not, how could you believe?
But that personal logic is not Logic.
Search Logic in Google, and you'll know what I mean.
I'm sorry but I'm lazy, as everybody knows
I don't post long.
And about not seeing love although it exists, that's not a proof that God exists.
God is supposed to be a creator. A creator obviously has to have a mind of some sort. So it has to be 'something' A creator is not a feeling. A creator is not an intuition. Love is.
Two different things.
If you believe in God ,you believe he created love ,among other things. So love can be a part of your god, but can't be a god, As love as all the other feelings can't create anything.
You said: "Anyway, Logic in Kabbalah has to do with the Faith. In this case Jew Philosophy/religion. So if you believe in something, of course, for the believer (you) it has logic. If not, how could you believe? But that personal logic is not Logic."
I understand what you mean. Not to brag, but I have a degree in Philosophy; I know what Logic is, and I know it's limitations. I understand what you're saying about what I believe being my personal logic (and I wholeheartedly agree that it is separate from Logic), but that's not exactly what I was trying to communicate (apparently, I didn't do a good job). As you pointed out, Love does not equal God; in a similar vein, Logic does not equal Truth. Therefore, I contend that Logic alone does not lead humans to the Truth. I think that Truth IS logical, but only on a cosmic level (in other words, God understands all of it, logically); as far as human understanding of Truth: since it is bigger than human understanding, it takes more than just Logic for us to understand it.
You said: "And about not seeing love although it exists, that's not a proof that God exists. God is supposed to be a creator. A creator obviously has to have a mind of some sort. So it has to be 'something' A creator is not a feeling. A creator is not an intuition. Love is. Two different things. If you believe in God ,you believe he created love ,among other things. So love can be a part of your god, but can't be a god, As love as all the other feelings can't create anything."
You're right, the existence of love is not a proof of the existence of God, nor did I mean it to be such. I probably didn't communicate it well, but I meant for that to point out that something can exist without us being able to see it.
LOL @ lazy! I wouldn't call it that; I'd say you probably just have other things you'd like to do. I usually don't post really long stuff either, but this has been an enjoyable and interesting conversation, so I've been more "talkative" than normal.
I hope you're enjoying the conversation as well, and that you're having a wonderful day!
Yes, I am enjoying our conversation , of course ! If not I wouldn't be posting.
About Logic & Truth, I would say, That Truth is impossible to grasp, being only human beings. Not even with logic.
Anyway I don't think God is the Truth.
So I use Logic not to find the Truth, but to Find a logic explanation of life, which for me, doesn't include God.
Of course I understand your point of view, even I don't agree about God. I'm sure you notice I agree on the rest.
But it's not, it's man made tales and multiple revisions and additions throughout the years.
that's because I'm crazy !
I really enjoy chatting with you, Carmen! I'm sure we will meet again !
I never know who's my fan or not,I have so many things in my head, that I cannot keep track, but if I haven't fanned you, I'm doing it right now !
Another bible lie from the master of bulls**t Matthew.
Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)
Hi earnest, hope you had a good saturnalia...
Two key requirements in this, that few people actually meet:
"does not doubt in his heart"
"believe that you will receive it"
If you cannot believe, you cannot receive, if you doubt, you're out!
God sees what people really think and believe, which is why so much of Gods answers have to be "So be it".
A god who thought like that could crawl under the carpet and not leave a bump!
Tiny little god that one. So the millions are all starving to death cos they can't meet your gods muster? What a croc!
We've been here before.... the millions who are starving are doing so because YOU GUYS will not meet Gods muster.
I've already stated that (IMO) about 3% of the worlds population have a full on 100% relationship with God, and that (to me) means that the other 22% of professing Christians have a lesser relationship from 99% downward to 1% (shall we say)
BUT at least 75% of the world don't even pray to ask God to stop the suffering, and this world, for those who do not have a relationship with God, is ruled by Satan who DOES want to see all that suffering.
So get the 75% who deny Christ, to start asking God, in the name of Christ, to stop Satan operating in the world and see if the floodgates of heaven do not open and have God pour out His blessings on the world.
Whilst the majority worship the creation rather than the Creator, what else do you expect to happen?
If you want to deal with world poverty and hunger in secular fashion, get used to living on a bowl of rice a day in a hut with no power, and you may just be able to sort it out without God.
Happy to live poor if it would help. I am already in to leaving as small a mark on the environment as I can, and have been for a very long time.
Your satan story makes as much sense as your god story. god makes satan, blames his creation. What sort of a god is that?
It's the sort of God who wants to have people make their own minds up about Him, who gives all people free will to choose whether they use and abuse what He gave them, or exercise the dominion* He allocated to them to manage and create a better environment.
Dominion*Definition: Sovereign or supreme authority; the power of governing and controlling; independent right of possession, use, and control; sovereignty; supremacy.
Authority always comes with responsibility, so with our dominion (which was given to you as much as me) comes the responsibility to manage and take care of.
Unfortunately some folk (like our Mr Satan) object to Gods plans and want to instigate their own plans, they don't want to play Gods 'game', or rather they want to play by their rules, so where God gave dominion in order that we had the power of governing and controlling; independent right of possession, use, and control; sovereignty; supremacy, the 'world' (controlled by Satan) abused these powers and just took, took, took....
There have always been takers and givers and all folk come into one or the other category, sometimes they switch category daily or by the minute.
The world has gotten so corrupt that we are able to live like kings simply by accident of birth.
Your great great grandparents may have been Irish peasants almost dying in the potatoe famine and choosing Australia as a hope for better things, and you gained a whole land, and your fore bearers abused the natives and took what they wanted and have only just started to recognize they had some responsibility to manage that land. So they cut it off from further immigration by desperate people, to 'protect' those who lived in this land of plenty.
My Irish ancestors went right towards Liverpool, and when they got there they stayed in the UK instead of trying for OZ or the USA.... and our country exploited the world making it a powerhouse and rich land.
I simply realize that by giving God MY authority in matters, things get sorted out, when I pray for a sick person in Jesus' name, they can get well, when we pray for the poor, and they get right with God, their lives improve, I see cause and effect in our relationship with God.
Yes of course we need to do the works as well as demonstrate the faith, but that's also written in my guide book for planet earth.
Got a busy day, but I'll try to keep intouch, though I guess it's early morning for you?
We are out of Dorset.
I see the history the same way, we made many mistakes and still make them in Australia.
gods plans included satan, he either knew the outcome or he didn't. If he knew it is of his making not mans, and if he did not know, how could that be considered to be omnipotent?
That which is omnipotent should not have to make childish rules, promote fear and hate and demand worship. That is more the actions of a spoilt child. Sorry, the whole thing is crazy to me!
Dorset, nice countryside, bet you were still peasant farmers... mine were chimney sweeps, indeed I'm the first adult male firstborn to have never swept a chimney!
"That which is omnipotent should not have to make childish rules, promote fear and hate and demand worship."
That which is omnipotent didn't, man made the rules that ensnare rather than liberate (and still does)and made the fear and hate to control rather than 'bring to the fullness of Christ' (Ephesians).
God does not DEMAND worship, it's simply that those who KNOW God gain a desire to worship His wonder and Majesty.
A powerful magnet does not need to 'demand' that iron filings move towards it, it simply happens as a fact of life, but of course if the iron filing meets an opposing magnet first (or even later) and gets polarized then it is repelled from the same magnet.
We just need to see which magnetic force is controlling our movements. (don't quote me on physics, it was never my strong subject, just using an analogy)
God does not demand worship? You must be joking! The bible is full of god demanding worship, often under threat of death or torture.
Wanna quote where it's listed in the new covenant...
There are 69 references to worship,in the new covenant and NONE of them command us to worship God, though a few warn us NOT to worship Satan, who we are warned will DEMAND worship when he comes to power in the end times, and Jesus quotes the Torah once (mentioned in two accounts)where He states:
Matthew 4:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you,[a] Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”[b]
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
Where he was telling Satan where to get off DEMANDING worship.
As for the Torah, I will account for the other 100 verses pertaining to worship if you want me to, but I've got to get my daughters lunch ready right now, so it will take a while before I answer.... if you still dispute what I said, let me know and I'll deal with it after lunch!
Way to go God.. keep in mind. Satan is a fallen angel. Satan was challenging God. Break him so to speak. Thank goodness God was brave. Keep in mind God made our beautiful world, a garden of eden,. And, Satan is twisting the good out of jealousy. God is kind of like your dad. You wouldn't disappoint your dad. You would do everything in your power so to speak to encourage him. After all he encourages you everyone day, giving you motivation. That is what God tries to do. In the bible there are a great deal of inspirational quotes in there.
Would your dad send you to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity? No, because your dad loves you unconditionally, unlike the mass murderer you call god who does such things.
We are in hell , we are surrounded by fire.We also have fire or heat or peat within. Without fire we don't exist.You will keep coming back here is what it means.
Do you actually have anything to contribute that isn't completely nonsensical and ridiculous?
Wouldn't be ranked so highly if I wrote non sense, think about it.
I thought about this one. Still disagree.
Grimms and Aesop are ranked highly in that regard.
Try to understand my book is ranked at 2 in Spiritual and Religious and 1 in under $5. My work is being regarded as the best man has seen . So please stop abusing me.
So, your books reside in the under $5 bin? I can understand that, completely.
A humble author, as well. While I do suspect your avatar is a picture of you, I never suspected you took a picture of your head simply because the rest of your body wouldn't fit in the frame.
How is possible for anyone to abuse "the best man has seen?"
Yes, you're right! I do believe I can see a shadow of your head on the moon! Will miracles never cease!
Use it,trust me you have brains, common you can do it.Why is my work , my words being ranked so highly?
for you to crash your head fast and 'downly '!
and yes, 'downly' I made it up !
exactly if you write it will be garbage. common tantrum you can also use yours.
I stand in the penumbra of your vastness, o great one.
Those who peddle snakeoil still manage to sell snakeoil and will use any tactics to do so.
I have just come here to register, welcome to my home to see my article.
sorry! but the ones that were jealous were the the Hebrews, the Sanhedrin. Too many people were following Jesus.the Romans didn't like that at all, because they controlled the people through the Sanhedrin. That's why they let Jesus die. Don't forget that the Sanhedrin was the jury who condemned him. the Romans only said it was a good decision.
I'm not talking about 'verses', here. I'm talking about history.
anyway , in the NT, where it's related Jesus' death ,it states clearly that the Sanhedrin condemned him.
Go and read !
The Sanhedrin and the Pharisees made sure he was arrested and tried.
But only Pilot could condemn him to death. the Jews could not condemn a man to death. That power was to be weilded by Emperial Rome only.
Yes, and as I said before,Pilot decided to leave the decision to the Sanhedrin because it was politically more correct from the Roman point of view
Actually pilot let the crowd choose as was custom for that time of year, there was a pardoning of a jewish prisoner.
The Jews could not impose the death penalty under Rome.
Pillot presented Christ to the crowd. It says right in the bible the crowd was minipulated.
I agree that his fate was sealed because the Sanhedrins condemned him, and pilot not needing any more problem from the Jews agreed, undoubtedly.
He was as you say an agitator, a radical in his time. they, the Romans, most assuredly kept a good eye on his movements, along with the Jews.
Well. We agree on somethings.
I had read someplace that Barabbas was a popular rebel, a member of the zealots who had killed a Roman soldier while on one of their attacks on the Occupiers. He was kinda like a national hero. Pilot should not have been suprised.
I never said God agitates. He inspired. Helped everyone where ever he went. Always smiling at everyone.
Which bit? Many religionists will not allow the OT, as it speaks of gods hate and killing, so spoils an otherwise whitewashed belief.
THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD! IT IS TRUTH! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR! SAVE YOURSELF FROM THIS UNTOWARD GENERATION. PEOPLE ARE DYING IN THERE SIN EVERY DAY WITHOUT GOD ON THEIR SIDE AND GOING TO THE LAKE OF FIRE BECAUSE THEY REJECTED THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD. IT'S ONLY ONE OF YOU. LET GOD SAVE YOU BEFORE IT'S TOOOOO LATE! IF YOUR HUSBAND OR WIFE SENT YOU A LETTER FROM OUT OF TOWN....WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT? WELL, WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE IS TRUE? IT'S A LETTER FROM GOD! BELIEVE IT OR BE DAMNED!
You are a blasphemer whose words prove you know nothing of the Creator or His Son. The LIVING GOD has no interest in torturing His children, or allowing others to do so. His son sacrificed himself in order that NONE would taste eternal death.
Death AND Hell shall be cast into the Lake of Fire. Don't you think that means they're two different things?
These comments are disturbing! How can anyone really believe the bible has much integrity at all?
The Lake Of Fire was where they disposed of all the bodies that they hung on the crosses (that was how they tortured people in those days) to keep diseases from spreading and to keep the smell of rotted corpses at bay.
I believe that the bible is true....
We just need to read it correctly?
Seems that everyone already knows what something is going to say before we read it. We need to stop doing that.
We all do it. It is hard to stop doin it. But it can be done.
I'll take your question one step further. What if they are ALL real? Every major religion I know has it's own "Book". What if they are each a geo- or entno-centric perspective of mankind's experience of God as it relates to them?
The world's great religions have common themes: Love, respect for others, and an acknowledgment of a "Higher Power", and that we are each imperfect beings striving to become better. Religion then gives us guidelines to follow that will help us become better people.
For some, whether the Bible is historical or not may be important, but not for me. What's important is the lessons taught, and the guidance given. The "test" of any religion then is seen in the behavior of it's followers.
You're not taking the question further. You missed the point.
They are real for the people that believes in them. and they live according to each book.
the lessons taught are OK. the lessons are not in discussion here.
The OP is questioning Bible facts.
So what's your point ?
One can learn a lot through books , I do. They need to connect or relate with you in order for one to appreciate it.Relate by experiencing.
Someone who hasn't fused with god cannot write such high philosophy.I see god in these masterpieces.
Here we go here we go here we go...here we go here we go here we go oooo
Who is abusing you ???
you're abusing everyone's patience !!!
Excellent advice, mohitmisra!
Physician, heal thyself.
You can do it too, just move your head a little more north so it doesn't block the sun out.
Common use those brains a little but of common sense.
I think the bible is very truthful and all the things that are happening past and present is in the bible, word from word.
The bible has a bunch of conjecture and subjective interpretations. Nothing in it is based on factual truth.
Some of it is based on historical fact, but that is also true of most religious texts, so I still wouldn`t use that fact as an indicator we should follow its precepts. Common sense, conscience and logic should be the guide to assessing all texts (and some intuition, admittedly)
There is no logic in religion. It's all faith based irrationalities. But, Thank you for your input Adsense.
Well, I must admit, I am not particularly religious, and I totally agree that religious people sometimes believe the most monstrously illogical things (perhaps most people do, in fact).
I just meant that, rather than accepting a book on faith, each part of it should be assessed using the tools we normally use to assess other things in life -- like rationality, and conscience.
But when alot of different aspects of the bible are consistant, or affirmed, by many different fields of science, (ie: Archeology, Paleontology, Astronomy, Meteorology, Biology, Anthropology, Geology, Physics,), and I may be forgeting some.
Plus the Historical accuracy of the text itself, (and yes even the prophetic accuracy of the text, but that is anonther topic all together.), coupled with the fact, reallity, that Isreal even now uses it to guide their agriculture, Mining, Settling, and many other national prosperity decisions, and it is been highly effective in it's use.
Then. I don't know?
If based on these facts, it would not be right to call the bible a, "Textual compilation of the evidence in support of this, Theory, we as Christians and jews believe".
Sort of like all your scientific knowledge in the current and former science Journals and encyclopedias, and all the other texts of scientific knowledge, wrapped into one.
See what I mean.
So my belief in my theory, I think, Is as valid and proper as yours.
Don't ya think?
the bible IS TRUE that is, if you believe in the lord and jesus. And if your cathlthic which i am.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim of the truth of the Bible, as you so nicely claim "IS TRUE".
Please bring forth any information you have that makes this ancient book truth. Please try to refrain from using anything in the Bible as a statement of truth, since that is what is being debated as truth?
You find any evidence....please do let me know. It was not found in the 20 years I researched religion and religious study.
So, by all means, please bring your supposed truth to light, so it can be seen.
Thank you in advance.
Why can`t some of it be true, and some of it not true?
Good question. If we find things in the bible, or any book, that make claims to being the absolute truth but can be demonstrated otherwise, then the entire book becomes questionable.
Of course, we are free to take whatever the bible states as true that can be demonstrated as true and go with that. No problem.
I am with you here Q as I feel the Bible is not written in a language easily comprehensible by man as of now is quite threating and may be historically wrong.
I look at your second viewpoint, appreciate the awesome spiritual knowledge in it.
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