It's really quite the clever bit of dogma, isn't it?
You tell people to go out and deliver a message that is well at-odds with reality, then you tell them people will disbelieve them.
That's not special, anyone could have predicted that. The brilliant part is pretending your prediction made through common sense is divinely delivered prophecy.
Convince your followers that rational reactions to their behavior are the machinations of a great enemy spirit of the signs of revealed prophecy and they are trapped in a belief reinforced by every conflicted bit of evidence brought to them.
To those who have ears to hear let them also understand. To those who have Gods Holy Spirit; to them be discerning. From the moment the bride was betrothed to Roma she was corrupted. Her children have been the harbingers of Murder, Greed and Slavery. Their conquests have blinded the entire world and those who claim to know the master and be of him. From that day to this "The Way" is unknown accept by a few.
Without the Holy Spirit you cannot know God to interpret that which is seen. How then can you purpose to understand that which is unseen?
However it rolls, it's still worth waiting on. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. Each one chooses their path. Whether they come out on the other end and how they come out on the other end largely depends on choices made while walking.
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
I wasn't sure if you had a particular focus of scripture you wanted but this one is one of my favorite.
Aside from the comedic relief, in the last days, we are to be confonted by false prophets and of course the anti-christ who will be someone we have been led to trust. A charismatic leader-type who presents to us everything we had hoped for. In reality, we're being led right down the road to our own demise.
Healthy skepticism of the intentions of politicians or other leaders is all well and good, but that's a poisonous bit of thinking. It teaches you to fear the people who could lead from all sorts of troubles to all sorts of prosperity. The clearer the plan, the nobler the intentions of some poor, well-meaning leader the more likely you are to superimpose the greatest of all your phantoms on him.
Yeah that was a good wun..."cool subdued sarcasm"...it was good. Given what's at stake. Namely the souls of people. Sometimes in our zealousness for Christ our flesh leaks; and I don't mean you start to sweat. . Unchained Grace. Hmmmmm. Did you do time in a prison? I'm not asking this question facetiously; i'm honestly curious. Your name; how did you choose it? Or who chose it for you?
It is, as you know, a calling wherein 110% of your being must be there. One day, perhaps I will tell you what Holy Truth Veterans Housing Program/Unchained Grace Ministries/Lost Souls of the Night/ is doing on a daily basis.
Sandra, Job knew, even back in the OT that there would be those who would deceive. I&II Timothy along with Titus outlines the issue with regards to the Pastoral Epistles and Jeremiah 23 (in its entirety) relates God's displeasure with prophets who use their position for their own purpose. Hence, false teachers.
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy[a] to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Aquasilver, way back you gave me some very helpful hints on my writing styling by showing me to break up my textblocks so that readers would be more inclined to read them. Remember?
I am one who doesn't lean on throwing the Bible at someone. That never works and they won't wade through it all. Those who already know it don't need it and the others won't read it, so I only use it to substantiate a position once I am entirely sure it is within context.
I think Sandra's concept was to carry through the whole topic answering each other with scripture...
am I right Sandra?
Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: “ Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms, To root out and to pull down, To destroy and to throw down, To build and to plant.”
Having not ever had the pleasure of meeting your friend Freddie, I would have to say that while I was not around in those times, the hate factor exudes from mankind and in his everpresent need to control and dominate others. I once worked for an agency whose unwritten mantra was,"The ends justify the means." That might work in certain circumstances, though it must be reconciled with the goal(s)set forth and the rules by which the game is played.
Revelation never defined the position the anti-christ nor the false prophets would assume, though these individuals would have to be charismatic leaders who purport to provide what is in the hearts and minds of others.
As you read through, you'll find some things you might not want to read or hear,but,in the end it's really up to you.
The statement you allude to was part of the Revelation given to John while he was in exile on Patmos. It, again, was never defined what the position of the false prophets nor anti-christ would be. Sure, we can see possible correlations, though, who really looks good for it?
The Scripture should not be followed blindly; but with reason , rationality and logical arguments. If one finds contradictions in the Scriptures ; one should follow which is reasonable.
Jesus did not write any Scriptures , he did not even dicate one; he did not even authorize anybody to write on his behalf. What we find as Gospels were written by his deserting disciples, he did not stand with him when Jesus needed them most. These were the disciples who sided with Paul and wrote what suited Paul. Like Paul they neither believed Jesus nor his teachings, at least that is what we see in the Gospels.
Actually John did remain with Jesus at the Cross and began his Gospel:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
I know very well how foolish the message of the cross sounds to those who are on the road to destruction. But we who are being saved recognize this message as the very power of God. As the Scriptures say, "I will destroy human wisdom and discard their most brilliant ideas."
I have been in many positions where one would sa,"Know what? This God thing is a freakin' joke." Me being here is prima facie evidence of that." Frankly, it's not. The blamegame starts with the mirror.
Speaking only for myself, I cannot conceive of the time when I've ever or will ever see myself as "better" or anything similar. By doing so, would I not then be purporting to position myself as an idol of my own design therefore acting in direct opposition to what I stand for? Not the wisest move in the book.
Yes you would be, as many do here. I am not a sinner, I am not subject to your gods "love", I do not like people telling me "through scripture" that myself and loved ones are going to be tortured in hell for eternity ok?
Let me point this out immediately. When I started my military career in Nam, I enlisted. Why? I in fact wanted to see people have the right to believe as they chose. I've been in too many countries since then where deathsquads decide your faith for you.
So, I'm not here to agree nor disagree. Not to criticize or debate your beliefs or anyone else's. I can tell you, though, we're all fortunate in that such a conversation as this can be carried out without fear of that knock on the door.
Actually, something very similar. It is all borne of fear of the unknown. Who was a witch? If you remember, many in Salem MA were killed based solely on supposition, rumors and cheap gossip. Much the same as today's society. Superficial judgements. Racism and other related prejudicial issues are borne of the same things.
Frankly, you are correct. There rarely is a shortage of human voices. Unfortunately, we do not know the hidden agendas behind those voices. What are their motivations? Why are the telling me this? It is for that reason I watch. Such things will be exposed. I can remember many years ago in one particular country I waited with a team for over eight solid hours. Stock still. Waiting patiently for the adversary to appear. They did.
Here's my point. Initial and superficial observations rarely give us what we need for a solid decision. So, we wait. Patience coupled with the experience borne of perseverance and wisdom allows us to see what's needed to them effect our options.
Science accepted evolution as a fact a hundred years ago. The mere fact of it is no longer even of interest, attention is for it's details and it's powers now. It's a force we're learning to wield. You spout mythology to call its existence into question at the same time the real world is using it to forge new medicine and chemistry. You are like a madman telling carpenters there is no hammer or nail. You claim it's impossible but can't even describe it in the most rudimentary way...
therefore thus says the LORD, "Behold, I am about to punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite and his descendants; he will not have anyone living among this people, and he will not see the good that I am about to do to My people," declares the LORD, "because he has preached rebellion against the LORD."'"
"And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, 'THE LORD, THE LORD GOD, MERCIFUL AND GRACIOUS, LONGSUFFERING, AND ABUNDANT IN GOODNESS AND TRUTH, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin...' " (Exodus 34:5-7).
Luke 21:12-14 But before all this occurs, there will be a time of great persecution. You will be dragged into synagogues and prisons, and you will be accused before kings and governors of being my followers. This will be your opportunity to tell them about me.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
SirDent, you play bass also? Back in the day, it was the way I made my living for a while. I had a nice old beat on Fender Precision with a Sunn Coliseum head with a Sunn 415B bottom which had 2 15" speakers. I used D'Addario ground half-round strings because I found the Rotosounds, which were somewhat popular, would chew the neck up. Messed with the intonation as well.
I play a Fender Jazz bass with twin single coil pickups. I also like to use Fender light or medium light gauge flatwound strings, preferably stainless steel. I just bought a new amp because my old fender amp head bit the dust. I bought a Kustom and a speaker cabinet with 4-10s in it. I also use my 15 Fender cabinet and it sounds great.
You got a hot setup! I always liked a a Fender Jazz. Nice neck.
For a while, I played a Gibson Ripper (which was blonde) with the same amplifier setup and also a Gibson EB3. Many wondered why I chose an old EB3, but the combination of the power and warm sound of a tube amp and the quick neck on an EB3, I could pull off some Stanley Clarke/Jaco Pastorious licks that really had punch.
I guess that if there was one thing I'd do for myself personally right now it would be to pick up a nice bass with an powerful amp and then go join the praise team.
Ibanez makes some good products. I have an electric guitar here that I mess around with from time to time. I don't know this for a fact, but I heard some Ibanez need batteries to work. Worth checking out if you decide to get one.
Nice cross section. Yeah, I remember the old days. Soldering iron, solder and hearing the guy in the front row at the Ramada Inn whine when I cranked it up for some Isley Bros. material that was shaking his table. After a while, when he got number, it didn't seem to bother him as much.
It was the first time I ever plucked a string on one of them. I am a diehard Fender fan. The one I used also had 24 frets instead of the 22 you have on a Fender.
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
I also was a Fender Fiend for quite some time. I remember back in the early years of Chick Corea and Return to Forever, Stanley was running a "P" bass then. Tower of Power's bass player did also. I'm not sure what got me to check out others, though each has their own distinctive trademark sound. I remember during the "Yes" years, bassists were eating up Rickenbackers as fast as they could be made.
In a way, as I've stated to others, the relevancies are in a way like links and backlinks. Sometimes, the references walk you into a cross-testament expedition for the purpose of illuminating certain points. An example? There are three place in the NT wherein blind men are discussed not including Blind Bartimaeus in Mk. 10:46-52.
Some say the others, such as that found in Luke (the physician) are references to the same incidents though the characters aren't mentioned by name.
Psa 1:1 - believers are encouraged to isolate themselves from dissenting opinion. Psa 1:3 and 1:4 Believers are told they will prosper and their opponents will not. (Note: manifestly untrue) Psa 1:5 - it's reiterated that believers shouldn't listen to anyone else Psa 1:6 - Threats for non-believers.
It's the sort of behavior and thinking you've got to indoctrinate people into when you're selling a philosophy that can't stand under its own power.
Again, this depends entirely on the intentions of the shepherd. The evil one shall see it from the point of an opportunist. The good one(s) shall see it from the standpoint of a gentle guardian. There are indeed shepherd's who relate to their sheep as pawns. Buy and sell. Self-serving. Yes, they're certainly out there and many wear a white collar as a diversionary tactic. It's all about guilt/control with some.
You speak to the actions and agenda of the ill-intentioned shepherd. Again, to believe in the existence of one, there must also be the belief in the opposite. Not all are bad. Not all are good. Define "good" and define "bad" according to your belief system and you'll at least be able to know what to be wary of.
cant say even ONE thing because theres too many opinions out there.. and too many minds ramblimg on at once going this way and that... its like a mindless maze of cakaka! all I gotta do is say the word JESUS and that would be it lol
I was wondering about whether to do that or not, but decided to only to show that there's those who get it done without making any great worldly statements. See, we just do what we do. People see it. Therefore, why would I care to sit here and debate the issue with anyone when I know that in my own little backyard, we're doing something that truly helps people?
Revelation 18:7 "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'
The good Shepherd keeps his flock large so he has more to exploit. The sheep wander, feed themselves, and keep warm by their own nature. They grow used to the shepherd, associate him with the things they take for themselves, but he is nothing but an impossibly efficient wolf.
That actually depends on the shepherd. You are absolutely correct when you state the ease of target accessibility for the ill-intentioned shepherd. However, one must realize that for the bad, there is the good. Essentially, if one believes in the possibility of a bad one, it follows there must be good ones as a comparative.
Okay, this metaphor has been stretched to its breaking point.
Speaking literally, shepherds might be perfectly nice people, but they eat sheep. More than wolves do.
Sure, shepherds might seem to protect a sheep from a wolf, but a large wolf might seem to protect a sheep from a smaller, weaker wolf. The shepherd's just the biggest, most cunning wolf.
I think that's alternately funny and sad... It's funny because Christians like to accuse atheists of being wolves, and say that their shepherd will protect them from us nasty, nasty wolves, but really a sheep has far more to fear from its shepherd than it does a wolf.
To say, "I am a sheep, you are a wolf, my shepherd will protect me from you..." the sheep in the analogy subjects itself to a terrific threat to protect itself from a minor one. Out of fear of a small wolf it submits itself to a great one.
Sheep are destroyed in great numbers by their stupid reliance on a protector who does not have their best interest at heart. That someone would disagree with me, then immediately compare themselves to that dumb creature... I can't help but laugh.
It's sad because the truth is no one ever wrote a list of threats for disobedience, impossible rewards for obedience, and rules for avoiding everyone who isn't part of "the collective" because they've had anything but their own selfish interests at heart. It's the sort of thing said by the kinds of people who, at the very least, want to keep the option to spend human lives like currency open. They need their followers as dumb as sheep for it to work, though.
That's why it's so important to keep them separated from dissenting ideas, to teach them to value obedience over their own wisdom.
A sheep is a stupid creature that dooms itself, and for someone to haughtily compare themselves to it makes me laugh a little. But a sheep is also a tragic creature, and when the analogy holds true it's sad.
Sheep are stupid. As animals go, they are very, very stupid.
When you compare atheists and Christians to wolves and sheep respectively I find it funny, because wolves are probably about middle of the curve, as animals go, and sheep are dumber than a bag of hammers.
But I didn't call you a sheep. You called you a sheep.
You insulted yourself. All I did was laugh, then explain the joke.
Real shepherds aren't an omnipotent god. And real wolves usually avoid crossing them anyway.
Livestock are fantastically stupid compared to wild animals...
...if you want to make yourself look all clever and awesome with an analogy to animals what you do is compare yourself to the smart animal and your opponent to the stupid one. Or it it, y'know, totally backfires.
I agree. The first thing religionists learn from their book is to mistrust anything that disagrees with it. That is a massive task, and unachievable in any case, but the task is set and the rewards are eternal life with none of the rotting in hell forever stuff. At one time, that would have been a lot easier sale than it is today!
You are absolutely correct. Sheep are immediately taught to fear the wolf, so they are wary of his presence which makes it difficult for the wolf to do his thing. That is the outward wolf. The one we can see readily.
The inward wold who has the trust of the flock is in a much better position to do serious damage and for this precise reason, we must always be wary of certain ones alluding to a shepherd position.
You like to say you have a spirit, but only because your book-god tells you you should, and you never question your book-god. You quote your book-god, you expect the proclamations of your book-god to be heeded, you repeat your book-god's threats to those who won't bow to it.
I suppose you can at least claim greater honesty than the gap-god's worshipers.
It is what it is Life is interesting - no matter how rough life is, the more good things can be found if you look for them Tomarrow I get to see a friend for coffee. My son is not in combat anymore, and today the physical pain is only about a 6. How about you? I do say a prayer for you everyday, Holly
My guitar is a fender...like Bonnie's All I can play is Ode to Joy, Amazing Grace and The Star Spangled Banner! But I enjoy it. My hubby has a collection of guitars and plays well. Glad you guys sing praise, Holly
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
You should see it from my standpoint. Our ministry right now houses over 60 previously homeless veterans and nonvets. We receive no help from the city, state nor government. So, God has provided. We have a relatively por church in that what comes on goes directly out for outreach, street ministry, etc.
Look, I'm not blowing my own horn, here. Many churches keep their monies to themselves and build monuments to themselves by way of richly adorned chapels, fine cars and all that. They can have it.
My favorite thing? It's when I see a homeless person reunited with their family and able to provide for them. That is all this man wants to see.
I commend you and your church for that Unchained. We have no homeless where I live but we give away food and clothing all the time to those who need it. I also wrote a hub about a church in Florida that houses 200 homeless at any given time. I was asked to write a poem also for them.
I think it takes time and patience to make a lot of money here, but there are other ways that work too. Write a good book that people will read and market it professionally for example. High quality "How to" books backed by quality free information from a squeeze page for collecting a subscriber list and hey presto! Customers!
So much for a straight answer. Oh, well. Anyway,the initial point was I do not jump into the name calling, insults, antagonistic approach nor do I fall into the no-win trap of comparing faiths. Secondly, taking the position that anything is "implied" involves an opinion for an "implication" to be recognized as such.
You know, I have to wonder at the mentality of some of the Christians posting here. People just typing up nasty things and insulting each other's intelligence has a nasty feel to it, but a collection of threats and insults drawn from the Bible is just on a whole other level.
I mean, someone might insult me with their own words and I'm like, Man, that guy's a dick."
But you start trying to get threats and insults across with Bible quotes and it's like, "Wow, these people are speaking with the voice of a barely-sentient monster who seems to transcend the limits of human ignorance and hatred."
Every line is just fleshes out the god of the bible as a frothing psychopath.
If I hadn't started out hating the ideal the biblical god represents, I'd hate it by now. What are they thinking?
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."--1 Tim. 2:11-14
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
My last post of the night. Good night everyone.
By the way Paul, I thin kwhat Greeneyes wrote was directed at me.
Perhaps Through these scriptures I am simply finding fresh comfort in how I live. I have never debated what I believe in on these forums. Once I admitted I was a Christian while responding to a thread, certain hubbers started chiding and taunting and brutally mocking. But tonight on this thread, I immersed myself in the Word and found peace. I should thank Sandra for this thread - Thank you. And I must thank the mockers as they have no power to wound me anymore. I still do not feel the need to debate my beliefs, never did, and the mocking was there anyways. Didn't make sense until now Holly
2 Corinthians 1:11 you also joining in helping us through your prayers, so that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the favor bestowed on us through the prayers of many. Ephesians 4:23: and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Why do you worry so much about idols and false gods? If they are unreal, YHVH will prevail, you'll be in with your harps and everyone else will burn. If they offer another path to salvation, that which is beyond all gods will presumably offer you a nice walled-off section of the afterworld so that you will never know anyone else is there apart from you, since otherwise you would not be able to enjoy the afterlife to the full.
Ah, one of these. There are the obvious prophecy bits, like how people aren't going to believe you when you tell them impossible things, and the false ones that it seems a lot of Christians want to believe. This is in that second category.
I was accused of being cynical earlier, but this has, quite simply, not come to pass.
Actually, the main issue that led me to leave Christian dogma was the insistence that only Christians can be saved. This issue troubled me from about the age of 13. You see, if there are people I love in this life, who are not "believers", Christianity tells me they will burn in hell. Now, suppose I take the obligatory steps to salvation. I'll end up sneaking through the pearly gates, but people I loved will be left thrown to the flames below.
Christian dogma states we enter into eternity with our full personalities as known here. For me, this means I would not be in paradise but in hell. Sorry, the presence of God, Jesus, the saints, seraphim, cherubim and whatever other entities will not compensate for the fact that people I knew and loved in this life will not be there with me. I might as well be in eternal flames with those I loved or else find another metaphysical solution to the dilemma.
What jab? She stated she had difficulty with christianity. I didn't tell her to do believe anyway or believe what I do. I did not put her down, call names or belittle her. I encouraged her to believe what she feels is right. Comic relief? Are you for real? The smile was genuine, too.
Jon 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Hi friendsBoth Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets hence their fate that they got killed.Jesus was a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; and hence he was saved a cursed death on Cross.I...
It is at my attention that many people teach the bible just a little bit differently than Jesus did. Is that not his book? Is it not he who should be sought after for truth? Can one "improve" his messages?...
1) If I speak about my faith on a religious forum, I am trying to force my faith on others. 2) It would be preferred if I would not post scripture at all... on the religious forum.3) If I use traditional methods to...