It’s the classic good guy vs. bad guy conflict that makes the Bible an interesting reader. Here's the million dollar question. Since God is the creator and destroyer of all living things, why didn’t He obliterate Satan a long time ago?
Nope, because if everything is not exactly the same, (which means in all of creation there is only 1 thing, an absolute singularity) if there are two things and they are not two identical halves of the same thing then there are differences. If there are differences then there is a top and a bottom, a greater and a lesser...etc.
I believe that God hasn't destoryed satan because God's not a destroyer. But He doesn't deal with evil through free-will. So satan and mankind destorys self. "I set before you life and death, choose life." There's judgement and consequences for every decision made, by satan and by us.
if GOD would have destroyed satan along time ago,then the world would be perfect like heaven,no sufering. and life wouldnt be such a test,maybe GOD didnt destroy satan all ready because to test man to see how ginuine mans love and faith for GOD would be with satan in the world,makes life more toupher,with out satan we wouldnt need faith,another words there wouldnt be a battle or a race, to the finish.im just throwing in thoughts here about your question.heres another thought,hell was created for satan and his demons,but not man,so satan was thrown down here on earth to rome around until hell was open until judgement day,so another words,satan has to wait to to enter into hell just like the sinners that dont except christ.otherwise satan would be sittin in hell now if hell was open,so hes here on earth till judgement day the end and then hes destroyed.so its probally if GOD is having so much mercy on us then hell isnt open yet to destroy satan would be a chane reaction maybe of GODS mercy on us? boy i got an immagination shees.
simple: He would violate the 'Free Will Act' He set in motion. same as He could not completely destroy humans without giving them a chance to repent. In Lucifer's case, he must destroy himself, sin must consume itself, darkness must consume itself, else G-d is partial.
Both are Spirits with the reality of the deepest ancient knowledge about the foundations of the earth. God is the father of spirits while satan is a rebellious spirit who always choose to counter God's words and ways with an evil mindset of his pride having same knowledge of immortality. Both can 100% influence mortals on this physical earth. God knows all and satan doesn't.
Yes this is a question asked by many. However as Satan was one of Gods most beautiful and clever Angels.It was not until God created the Heavens and Earth and all that dwell upon it that Satan became jealous. He then went against God by tricking Eve into eating the apple. Thus exposing the knowlege of good and evil to mankind. He could have stopped it right there and then but He gave all mankind a free will.For those like Eve who choose satan's way. They will also choose satan's way to hell. This is an easy way. For those who choose to follow Christ's way we will have our rewards with him in Heaven. However God has plenty more room for anyone who would like to change the path they are walking. His door is always open.
There is no such thing as God vs. satan. It started as "satan vs. God" and it lasted about a billionth of a microsecond. (you know, not very long!) It was "all over, Rover". Jesus death on the cross, (well, His resurrection, actually) sealed his fate for all eternity. That was/is the purpose of the Lake of Fire. satan is "dead man walking" as they say.
It's the classic good guy vs. bad guy conflict that makes the Bible an interesting reader. Here's the million dollar question. Since God is the creator and destroyer of all living things, why didn't He obliterate Satan a long time ago?
First of all, I no longer believe in Satan. Satan ceases to exist once we understand that we create the evil by believing that it exists. We create the evil within us by not understanding that we are not our body or our mind. That chattering that we hear in our heads. That chattering is a part of our human form. We grow up learning that our bodies are who we are, and we identify with them and think that we ARE our body, but we are more than that. Our minds and bodies are simply tools that we have been given to do the work that our souls have set before us in our lives. Our souls, however, lie deeper than any of our words or labels can touch. Our souls are who we really are. It's the soul that drives us to use our bodies and minds to create, grow and increase 'All That Is'. All That Is is my equivalent to who or what God is. We are all one. We all have a piece of All That Is within us. Our souls, are the part of us that if we could quiet our chattering minds and listen to we would know, are who we truly are. There are no words there, only feelings of knowing. All of our answers can be found there. It's a gift to know our true self.
So, to answer your question, God didn't need to obliterate Satan because Satan only exists to those who believe in evil. There is no Satan in my world, only what I believe is in my world. And, I can change what I don't like by changing my beliefs. That's true of everyone.
And this is the easy short story. So here you arrange and fix your life as it suits you best. So you banned Satan from it, forget about Evil and continue to live in a Bubble. Evil and Good are not beings. they're only human conditions. No God or Devil involved in our actions. Only human emotions.
As none of the characters in the bible are actually real there would be no way for God to kill any of them. Satan, like all biblical personifications represents a state of mind that man may attain. Satan, the state of complete disbelief, has been personified along with all the others by men who would use religion to control and influence humanity.
The way I heard it was that Satan was a fallen angel. God had banished Satan because Satan refused to bow down before Man as God had commanded all the angels to serve Man. Satan refused to bow because he loved God so much that he wouldn't serve anyone else. In this case, God destroyed Satan by banishing him.
If you were a chunk of iron ore you might think that the furnace were Hell. But how else are you to become a stainless steel sword. Satan is a tool that is used in creating perfection from the imperfect. Or something like that.
This answer is "allegorical." Unfortunately, providing an allegory like this doesn't reduce the contradiction. The contradiction is still there to be answered. (Just trying to think about this a bit more...). The problem with this allegory is that a tool does not run around the metal shop tipping things over.
They are both imaginary or myth. Neither one can be proven to exist.
Again, I will make my standard rant- Evolution disproves Religion. Science need an extra 40 years to get the job done and finally does so.
Understand- when I speak of science, I encompass, all fields, including philosphy and psychology. Which are both credited fields now, which weren't, when science first attempted to DEBUNK religion's claims.
Science is of the understanding that human beings are the highest cause, for their work.
Religion's cause is supposedly greater than humanity? We don't know anything other than humans? Makes no sense.
Science performs consistency tests on all theories, to ensure accuracy.
Religion claims truth, without factual evidence. Religion was originally formed by mystics and god-kings(those who claim to have a true connection with "GOD"). The limited intelligence of the human race at the time, was no better than that piece of wood.
There was a very limited primitive language, which revolved around the religous/spiritual leader establishments or rulers.
The rulers used religion to enslave people into laboring, for what they wanted in life. Greed, to the extreme. Those who followed religion were enslaved in chains, so as to do the bidding of the rulers.
Jesus knew they were taking advantage of people. Jesus knew there is no god within religion, and it's the main reason for him to tell you not to follow a false god.
Religion's perceived belief for it's code of ethics is chaos would ensue, if humankind isn't lead to believe to answer to a higher power.
It automatically dismisses self-responsibility and conscious thought(free will), so to control people.
God "exists" (not necessarily as an entity, but as humankind's invention) as a representation of good. Now, good is relative - a concept of "good" cannot exist without a counterpart, something that makes the pursuit of "goodness" something admirable, rather than something that just is. This is why "bad" (ie, Satan) exists. Each term depends on the other. So God needs Satan in order to come across as a great guy. We, as mere humans, also require the temptation of evil, so our place with God can feel well-earned.
Its similar in principle to the notion that heroes need villains and vice versa (The Joker makes it a point to mention this in TDK).
It could just be all part of the master plan? IF we say that God is omnipotent, then he could destroy Satan whenever he wanted to.. and again assuming that he is omnipotent, then we probably wouldn't understand his/her reasoning anyway!
to end evil you have to destroy it...ok remove the top chip and destroy it... did you destroy evil...no because the next top chip still exists it just became ultimate evil... go through all the chips and when your down to the last two you still have absolute good and ultimate evil...
to completely destroy evil you would have to destroy both remaining chips...because the top chip even in a stack of one chip, is ultimate evil (when your down to only one chip that chip would also be absolute goodness), which means for goodness to exist evil must exist...
I don't mean to be disrespectful Mike, but the logic here seems to be self serving. You've postulated that good and evil exist and then proceed with the poker chips analogy without offering any proof for your original postulation. So it just goes around in a circle as long as the original premise goes unproven.
One bright, beautiful Sunday morning, everyone in the tiny town of Johnstown got up early and went to the local church. Before the services started, the townspeople were sitting in their pews and talking about their lives, their families, etc.
Suddenly, the Devil himself appeared at the front of the congregation. Everyone started screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in a frantic effort to get away from evil incarnate.
Soon everyone was evacuated from the Church, except for one elderly gentleman who sat calmly in his pew, not moving, seemingly oblivious to the fact that God's ultimate enemy was in his presence. Now this confused Satan a bit, so he walked up to the man and said, "Don`t you know who I am?"
The man replied, "Yep, sure do."
Satan asked, "Aren`t you afraid of me?"
"Nope, sure ain't," said the man.
Satan was a little perturbed at this and queried, "Why aren't you afraid of me?"
The man calmly replied, "Been married to your sister for over 48 years."
not all Evil is subjective. Killing other human being is wrong, even if you think you're right in doing so ,and you justify your deed, you know it's wrong. Like you know that helping people in need is good.
A lawyer dies and goes to Heaven. "There must be some mistake," the lawyer argues. "I’m too young to die. I’m only fifty five." "Fifty five?" says Saint Peter. "No, according to our calculations, you’re eighty two." "How’d you get that?" the lawyer asks. Answers St. Peter: "We added up your time sheets."
the guy I'm with is a friend, a make up artist from Costa Rica.
The laws can be just or unfair, because is written by men. Man is a very ordinary kind of being, that thinks himself, supreme. If we see that believers say that god created us at his own image! what arrogance ! To think we're like gods!!
I'm not sure about heaven... I kind of think that is something made up to comfort the not to bright. Heavenly Retirement where one gets to be a spoiled brat and have there every slighest whim granted sounds childish to me...unrealistic...
Universal standards ? No. We kill chicken/turkey right ? so we kill another living being for our own sake. So humans know how to defend and kill and try to rationalize these actions. And here in this case we are trying to justify acts of group, so they can kill and sleep on those thoughts without even thinking it is evil and there is no universal standard when it comes to justifying that. It becomes evil if group larger than the killing-group starts to resist it.
So if someone killed your loved one, is it right for you (who can't afford a lawyer) to solve the problem by taking personal revenge or is it right to do nothing and allow the "rule of law" to solve the problem according to the rules society has agreed upon?
Not being able to afford a lawyer to stop a rich man from using his lawyers to 'legally steal' from me is a Lord and a peasant a Feudal system, the lords make the rules are represented by the law and can do anything they want, while the peasants are without lawyers and therefore protection under the law cannot make up or change the rules, and cannot do anything except what the powerful say they can...
the other example of taking 'Justice' in your own hands is kinda a mute point the loved one of yours is dead...so it is too late.
I think it has always come down to the strongest (smartest, richest...etc) making the rules, they are always slanted in the favor of those that make the rules. In a perfect world everyone would have to live by the same rules, in the real world that just isn't the case...
Anything that cannot be proven is assumption, or opinion.
My logic states: If there is a lowest form of life then there has to be a highest... humanity has named this highest form of life God, Yaweh, Allah, the Alpha and the Omega and so on and so on ad nauseum...
We all are different among our own species then we can compare this with another species. then this goes on with rest of universe. so how is this going to stop ? there is no need to end this cycle by interrupting it with some ultimate.
we have tendency to bow before something greater than ourselves till we find that there is greater than that great thing..
We don't know what horses, dogs, or whales think because we don't speak their language. And we have assumed that our accomplishments are progress. Are they? Are we truly the smartest creatures on earth?
If we think our accomplishments are progress then we're into self bias. We're going in circle for this discussion. As i said earlier we ourselves have no set criteria for smartest life on this planet, so it becomes more harder to answer.
They are human beings with very serious psychological problems. In nearly every case, a socially destructive person has been a victim of abuse at some point in his/her life, most often in the early years. A victim of such a person can be compared to a victim of a car crash where the offending driver failed to maintain the safe operation of his vehicle.
if evil doesn't exist describe for me what these words mean...
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: harmful; injurious: characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: bad conduct marked by anger, irritability, irascibility: the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: harm; mischief; misfortune:a harmful aspect :the evil one, the devil; Satan.
That is a snare and I am not a rabbit! Sorry, Mike, but I think we're going around in circles now. If you want to believe that evil exists then I respect you for that. I believe something else which does not include an assumption that good or evil are entities unto themselves.
I am apologizing right now if I am not expressing my self properly. I just came home and was reading many threads and post and I asked my self what is wrong with this PICTURE. I am rambling and am not thinking about what I am saying in the proper literary seance. I have had a BAD DAY!!!!
WHO DO WE THINK THAT WE ARE???????????
"Who do we think that we are". Let me tell ya what I think that we are. With all of our self perceived importance we are little more than an ant colony in a 12 year olds bedroom !!! We depend upon somebody or something to throw a little bit of life sustenance upon the surface in order for us to survive. That 12 year old is our god by any one's definition. Satan then becomes that 12 year old's..... forgetfulness, distractions, bad attitudes etc. etc.. What right do we have to bitch if he doesn't help us find our car keys. Or why should we blame that 12 year old if we allow a small segment of "OUR Humanity" to starve or let some little girl get raped or some one's daddy be murdered by one of our own. After all he is just the keeper of the Jar. But he is much more than that. Do we deserve more??? If there is no after life then we have no "RIGHTS" to bitch out the little kid. And if there is more than that and I want to believe that there is.. Please leave me with my peace of mind,that can I find for myself with the thought of an after life.
After all; the life force that carries us through life is an energy and science tells us that energy is not eliminated but displaced to another location. And for all of you Atheist... Why do you want to burst my bubble????
Mmmmm. Your profile does not indicate your location. Is it far? I live about twelve hours driving northeast from Boston, then a six hour ferry, then another nine or ten hours. How much is gas where you live. Oh, and can you be here around nine. That's seven-thirty EST
The whole point is how do we help all human life in all times of life. what you believe is you right not helping all humanity is wasted lives on earth. The forces that be want human separation so this world of hell will go on making profit from weapons labor abuse raping human life as it goes.
polar opposites exist, you can't have differences and not have opposites...
if the hottest possible temperature is 100 the coldest possible temperature is -100 the neutral temperature is 0. changing the values for, (or names-of) those concepts doesn't negate the existence of the opposite to any of those values.
if we change the maximum hottest temperature to 12 the middle/neutral shifts to -39 and we still have what we had before...A highest, a lowest and a middle.
The only way to not have a hottest is to have only ONE temperature and that's it which also destroys the concept of coldest...
Now replace the words hottest with evil and coldest with good and you may see my point.
I see your point, but I still don't see why it has to be that way. Take an example from another thread from this evening.
Chocolate cake. What is the polar opposite of chocolate cake. There is none. But there is "absence of chocolate cake." Why couldn't it be the same for good (if by good and evil we are talking about cosmic forces, or something, which is what I would take something like the Devil, so-called, to be)
Now your just trying to label something with out defining what it is exactly... what exactly is 'chocolate cake'? break it down into it's ingredients, identify the opposites to all of the ingredients ... put all of the opposite ingredients together see what that makes and there you have chocolate cake's opposite.
If there are differences in anything, then there is also an opposite, to whatever degree they are opposite.
chocolate cake is a complex example I chose temperature because it is a simpler concept to make understood. I have also attempted the use of a stack of poker chips, sliced bread, algebra(positive and negative numbers), ad naseum...
If I understand you, if something is complex it is harder to find a true opposite for it, but if it is simpler, its opposite is more evident/obvious.
If this is so, then good is a simpler thing rather than a complex thing like cake. Have I got you...
On the other hand, even if this is right (and if I have read you correctly), I don't see why cake has to be seen as complex. Why couldn't cake be a simple, unitary concept? But maybe that's another story
No good is even more complex than chocolate cake.... TEMPERATURE is less complex than both and therefore easier to use to convey the concept about the more complex concepts of good and evil and of chocolate cake and it's opposite.
OK. I was assuming that you were arguing by analogy. In other words: - temperature is like good in certain respects (ie, its simplicity(?)) - temperature has an opposite - so I can show by analogy that good has an opposite.
However, if you were simply giving parallel examples of other things that also have a polar opposite (hot versus cold, top versus bottom), that would have been unnecessary for me, because I already understand the idea that good versus evil are two poles, in a scheme of good versus evil.
I understand the idea. I am asking however if the idea HAS to be valid all the time.
For example, take "up." In some situations there is up and there is down. Fine, no problem. But in other situations there is only up. If I am sitting on the ground there is only up. There is no down.
Ok. Seeing as Cagsil introduced morality (and let's face it surely this is what this thread was meant to be about), why couldn't you have a world with only two types of people: neutral people, and good people
But if we skirt the analogies and stick to the generally-agreed meanings of good and evil, there could be a world where there are lots of people doing good (like Mother Theresa-style), and lots of people minding their own business, going to work, doing their washing, paying their taxes, not kicking the dog, being polite to their wife or husband, etc, and no-one else. We wouldn't call this second type of person evil... this would be to bend the meaning of the word away from what everyone agrees it means.
I am not saying that we live in a world like that, just that it is theoretically possible.
Not that you are not spouting nonsense yourself Ray.
I think there is much more to good and evil than just morality, and I agree to Mikel, one is not possible without another - like heads and tails. The trick is to make a Möbius coin, then you become a Buddha and laugh all the way to cemetery
Just following the whole mobius business... isn't a Mobius strip a sort of optical illusion that kind of makes no sense... like a blue fish (a blue fish was the answer to the old joke: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb)
Satan is kinda like the guy that takes your car all apart, dunks those greasy parts in acid. Then GOD (the certified mechanic) puts all tha pieces back together before you can drive it back home. cooks supper and does what your husband tells ya to do. Just kidding about that last part. HA HA ??????
I normally don't get involved in discussions of this nature, because ultimately people will believe what they want to believe no matter how many times someone tries to convince them otherwise; however, I found it disheartening to read so many negative posts here, so I feel the need to throw my two-cents in. It is a sad world we live in where more and more people choose not to believe in an Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient God. It is troubling that there are so many humans who have no hope of anything past this mortal life. It is truly sad that people trust the brakes on their car to work when they press the pedal, but don't trust that there is a God above who loves us, cares for us, and provides for us in our time of need. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've never seen the Eiffel Tower in person, but I believe it exists. I've never seen the Dead Sea, but I believe it's there. And I've never seen God face to face, but I believe that we all will when our time is done here on Earth. Whether or not you believe it, that doesn't make it untrue. But don't take my word for it: When you die, and you stand before God to answer for all the times you tried to disprove Him, you will see that He does, in fact, exist. And you will know that you've made a mistake in believing a lie...but it will be too late.
I will be praying for those who choose not to believe in God, and I don't really care if you don't want me to pray for you, or if you disagree with my post. I will pray anyway, I will believe anyway, and I will cling to the hope that somehow you will find God to be real and worthy.
When you do get involved in discussions like this, you should have some respect for others rather than insulting them with pompous, arrogant superiority. Of course, that's the Christianity within you reaching out.
Troubling is not the word one would use for such insolence.
Do you want to know what's really sad? Those who believe their gods care and provide for them when so many others must live in abject poverty where death is their only escape. Those believers are sickening to the core of their beliefs.
When one begins to compare reality with their religious beliefs, they fail miserably, not only due to the fact that such claims are fallacious, but also the fact they are unable to demonstrate their beliefs, while the price of an airline ticket will easily demonstrate the Eiffel Tower and the Dead Sea.
Many Christians, or in fact, many of those of any other religion don't seem to understand they too are in the same predicament, hence that argument is moot.
When you die, you run the risk of standing before Allah, for example, who will judge you for believing in the lies of Christianity.
Of course, that thought never occurred to you, did it?
Yes, cling to the magical and the mysterious while the ground beneath falls away.
In the Biblical creation story, the world is wholly good and is governed by a wholly good God. But the ancient Israelites, who originally put the story on paper, read it in an entirely different way than Christians do...
When Jesus in John 3:16 says "whoever believes in Him shall not perish," notice that he didn't say "whoever believes ONLY...shall not perish."Since 8 years old, I learn love makes good sense and love...
No matter what way you look at it.If God created life, then Satan the devil was born through God's creation, this makes GOD responsible for Satan's existence. So blame GOD for all things bad, instead of just shouting...