Okay...I've been perusing the Christianity section of this forum, and I have a question:
Why do people who claim not to believe in God or Jesus feel the need to visit the Christianity threads? And why must they continually bash and argue with the people who do believe in Jesus? Have they nothing better to do with their time?
I don't go to other religions & beliefs sections and bash them, so I would like to know why they feel the need to do it here in the Christianity section...it doesn't make sense, unless they are actually secretly seeking for answers and take a defensive stance against anything to do with Christ...some things just make me ask "Why?"
You have told it like it is yourself! They have nothing better to do!
Do you go to the forums and read it, hehe, why? and you dont comment and now you post a thread? well we are all searching for the truth and it is nice to argue and explain so that we can share ideas but we shouldnt quarrel or bash each other
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've got two reasons intersecting. One is that I like to argue with people. The other is that religion is evil and I hate it.
So I might as well direct my belligerence at a force that deserves it.
Atheists are often asked to provide examples of the evils of religion. Ancient genocides, the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, persecution of Galileo, etc are common answers. I don't really care about any of that except as a historical side-note.
Religion is evil here and now today. The most obvious example is that it has produced a chorus of voices saying the Haitians inflicted the disaster they are currently suffering through on themselves.
Even the most vile secular philosophies could never have produced such an outrageous belief. To believe something so terrible it takes combining self-righteousness, the years of being conditioned to think people deserve life-and-death punishments for daring to disagree with you, combined with magical nonsense about controlling the world with our thoughts and incantations.
For someone to read that 200,000 people many of whom lived in abject poverty were killed in a natural disaster and think, "Well, that's too bad and all, but they've only got themselves to blame," is frankly frightening. That something could strip empathy so thoroughly from people so easily is legitimately frightening.
At it's core this comes from a desire for the world to be "fair." Religious people generally want to believe in a good and powerful god ruling over them, which if true means they must be living in a good and rational world. So when something terrible happens to challenge this belief, there is a tendency to try and prop it up by claiming the victims did something to deserve the disaster. "It happened to them because they were wicked, and I am safe because I am not."
There are other examples. Stories of children who's amputated limbs failed to regenerate after a prayer session being told it is because their faith was not strong enough.
There are other evils. Homophobia, exorcisms, anti-science agendas, Catholic teaching against birth control, what I might term "spiritual terrorism" if I were to channel the sort of dialogue frequently in use on the right.
And of course there's the matter that if we were to all sit down and shut up, religious organizations would not return the favor.
This is a "discussion" forum.
One aspect of Christianity is the level of offense it causes and the ridiculous notions it perpetuates. Where else would one go to tell Christians what utter hate mongering nonsense their irrational belief system is? You stop preaching your hatred, I stop coming in here and telling you what utter clap trap your religion is. Simple really.
If you want forums where there are nothing but god fearing (lol) christians patting each other on the back for choosing the "correct" belief system that means they go to heaven and live forever(lol) there are plenty of them.
But the very fact that you asked this question here, knowing full well it would be answered by the people you directed the question at suggests you are realizing how useless your beliefs are and are now looking for real answers instead of pretending you are going to live forever. Good for you.
Wrongdoing, evil, and unkindness are perpetrated by believers and nonbelievers. They differ on the way it should be dispensed and for the exact reasons why, but it doesn't matter if you believe or not, we are all still a part of the fly and maggot infested dung heap. It only gets better than that if, individually, we decide to make it better than that.
Believers argue for converts. So do nonbelievers. They are pretty much the same, just a different shade.
I think because Christianity is the majority religion in America, and that's what they're most familiar with. It's also most prominent with the Evangelical right wing (i.e. Falwel's, Robertson's, etc.) being outspoken, so they're easy targets. The Catholic priest sex abuse doesn't help things either. I don't bother arguing with atheists about faith. I just let them observe my actions, and 'preach' and proselytize that way.
This can lead one to understand that you only "read" the forums and really don't participate.
Hence, from that- we can draw on experience, and derive that you would rather not have your belief system or structure challenged. Therefore, you can sit in your cozy own being and bask in your own glory of not really understanding your own life.
Sounds pretty boring to me.
I can say with a pretty honest heart, that religion is a hoax and the "GOD" concept it has built is also a hoax, since you cannot have "GOD" without religion. Yes, I said you cannot have "GOD" the concept without religion. By all accounts, when religion is deemed a hoax, which science already has done, then it's "GOD" concept is also deemed a hoax, because religion's base of mysticism is on the "GOD" concept. However, Yes, you can have religion without the "GOD" concept.
Simply because of the "business" definition of religion. It is a code of ethics, bound to a higher cause. The higher cause is to be based on something higher than oneself.
Religion absorbs billions of dollars, off the backs of billions of people, only so the leaders of religion can have power, influence in society and wealth, beyond mosts imagination.
Your use of the word "bash" is inappropiate and subjective to your own bias. As for arguing, that is because Life's reality has many things in it, and spouting untruths about life, which cannot be verified beyond a shadow of doubt or proven to exist....IS pathetic, sad, misguided, perpetuation of mysticism and morally wrong.
You ask a question WHY? As in you are seeking guidance. Can you not discern the truth for yourself or Do you lack knowledge about life?
If you need more assistance, feel free to ask.
Have a great day!
P.S. I'm not of any form of religion. I reject all mystical faith based religions, because the doctrines DO NOT WORK or the Goal of the doctrines are unachieveable by any human.
The ultimate goal is to be a perfect human. Except, there is one HUGE problem- humans cannot obtain perfection. Unattainable!
Actually, the main heading is Religion & Beliefs and Christianity is a sub heading. However, to read these forums you would think the reverse.
My view on religion remains the same ... I support the idealisms behind it (peace and love to one another - help your fellow human in need - try to live a good life) but I refuse to fall in line with the finger pointing, the hate mongering, and the whole thought that Christianity has the capacity to make one human better than another.
To a certain extent I see Muslims spreading their ill-will. bu nowhere near as I do some of the Christians. The current message of Christianity appears to be 'join us, or burn in eternity'. Oddly enough, I don't see this message being shot up in neon lights by the other religions represented here. In fact, Buddhism and Hinduism are represented here with nothing but a message of love and compassion for one another ... and I see no one attacking their idealisms.
Many Christians have this errant deviation in their mind that if others refuse to accept Jesus and his angry father then we are not worthy human beings and we must then be low-browed to 'return to their flock'. And yet ... I would have no qualms with looking into the Hindu religion and experiencing it for myself, as 'it just makes sense' that this is truly what religion is all about.
military: an organization designed to control the populace and keep them inline with the will of those who lead them. Sounds a lot like some of what I see from some of the Christians
religion: a belief that allows people to band together and form a civilized society where each cares for the other and helps provide for their needs. And the only good example I can find of that is Hinduism.
So, why isn't the world filled with Hindus and why are they so non-vocal in seeking converts? Because Hinduism is a belief ... and that makes it private (not public) so they aren't looking for converts. You believe ... or you don't. Belief is about choice and free will ... not forceful persuasion and demanded acceptance.
In China, the people often revolt against their own government, as people always will when the military assumes control. It is no different in a forum where a religion assumes control and mocks those who don't accept their beliefs.
Show me *one* instance where someone of the Hindu faith logged onto the religious forums and chastised others for not believing in the Hindu faith ... just one. Show me *one* instance where a Hindu spoke out and said the non-believers would perish in a fiery ending. You can't!
And why are there so few Hindus in this world compared to other religions? Because their PR is horrible! 'Join us if you please' doesn't convert the masses ... but religion isn't about conversion, it's about illustrating a way of life and leading by example - not chastising the masses for refusing to get in your boat.
And, am I a Hindu? If I *had* to chose a religion, that's the one I would chose - but I have free will and I chose to follow my own path. Interestingly enough ... no Hindu challenges me for that assumption and allows me my passage, whereas many Christians and a few Muslims fault me for that decision.
For those with a Bible in your hand ... read it and you will find your God doesn't lead you directly by the nose, as he gave you free will. If this were not true then none of you could ever claim that you 'found God' as he would be there pulling the whole time and would be unavoidable. There would also not be those who refuse to believe, as they would be pulled by the same rope and would have no choice but to believe.
Believe or not ... it's all about free will ... and the sooner people get it, the better all of our lives will become. And to all I offer a quote that I believe sums up my feelings the best ...
'It's not about what we can be made to be, but about what we can choose to become ourselves. We are not clay in need of molding, but rather, children learning to walk in our own footsteps. As such, we don't need forced guidance, we only need room to stumble in our own footsteps and eventually learn to walk for ourselves.'
Most of the time, I make myself away about arguing religion. My faith and believe stand only in one God.
Some people just like to argue for the sake of getting a rise out of the other person. Some go there just to have a good old fashioned debate, with no harm intended (sorry to say, there are more of the first than the last). I hate to say it though...... there's two sides to the coin. Just as non-christians often like to bash people who believe in Jesus... those people who believe in Jesus also often like to bash the non-believers. You'd think people could just learn to live and let live, eh?
You know, you have a point here. I've often wondered the same thing: why must they continually bash and argue with the people who are believers? Isn't it pointless? If an individual abhors the whole concept of God, Christianity, etc., then why the irrational interest in seeking out the actual thing they abhor? Could it possibly be a stab at wanting to defend their own idea of the "no-God" concept becasuse of insecurity in the idea? Or is it just the nature of "non-believers" to attack? But then again, why would Christians want to participate in such 'heated' throwing of stones like mere babes?
This I say objectively, with an open mind, not taking a "side" but truly curious myself, though I have my own personal discernment on the matter. But I absolutely refuse to get into it. I don't think the Lord would want his people to engage in senseless, berating and arguments, but instead, exhibit the Love he has for his children. That's the key. I don't care if I'm verbally attacked for following Christ, I don't need to defend it....it's part of who I am. With no God, I'm nothing; as I'm nothing anyway, because I cannot earn within my own nature the gift of eternal salvation. Nobody is good enough.
My point is this: everyone has a right to speak an opinion. The manner one chooses to question, debate or argue the issue is the problem, I believe. If one wants to come across as arrogant,self righteous or dogmatic, it's their choice. Though I would say to those who enjoy this approach "A person usually gets defensive when attacked". Simple as that.
I am good enough. I do not need salvation. I do not need to follow an imaginary dead guy.
Please do not project your inadequacies on to those of us who are strong enough not to need your crutch - it is offensive.
Simple solution for that: you could always read the answers that follow when you wonder such a question out loud.
Ah, but it's in the nature of religion to prefer wondering at things for a while then coming to the conclusions you'd like to be true to actually investigating the truth of things, eh?
You've opened up a hornet's nest here.
They claim you go spouting your religion on the forums, trying to convert others.
They say you are full of hate and intolerance.
Yet they follow you to every thread. They mock and make fun of your beliefs and your God. They call you names and act as though you have no rights. They are however allowed to have all their rights. They are intelligent and think you are stupid. Or so they say. They are very rude and mean, but don't talk back because you will be labeled a hypocrite.
But think about it. What does that say to you??? You know what it says about both parties. Blessed are they who......
Don't allow anyone to run over you. Don't be angry..be firm. Control your reactions. State truth even if it hurts them back.
Sometimes love is tough love.
People that are non-believers are often times, much more pushy than believers (no matter what religion). Non-believers are usually more negative, I believe, so they feel the need to spread their negativity. What is the old addage, "Misery loves company," and so they want to create drama and turmoil and bring others down. Sometimes I think that it is as simple as they are looking for a "fight". I think you nailed it here: they have nothing better to do with their time.
Come on, no need to speculate, I've told you why.
Look at the prejudice and ignorance you're showing off in your post.
Religion gave you that.
It's evil and so I'll take the chance to expose it for the fraud it is when that chance presents itself.
This is what is meant by "Pot Calling the Kettle Black" or "The Kettle calling the stove black"
I say a lot of things about believers and religion, and when religious viewpoint sudden makes it popular to believe something terrible I call it out.
But I don't make claims to effect of all believers are miserable people trying to spread their misery, or similar. This dehumanizing another group of people thing, religion encourages it.
I gotta hand it to ya, caranoelle. You're a brave soul, dude.
Look yourself in the mirror!
You're funny !
I love the way you reason!
It's better than 1 stand comedian.
you should go up stage!
I would say non-believers are *as* pushy as believers in many cases, but no more and no less.
You would think it would be easy enough for anybody to simply let others have their beliefs (or not, as case may be), without having to get defensive, offensive, or preachy about their own. As I often say.... you get as good as you give.
Now this is just my opinion but I think that Atheists come here to pick on the "Believers" cause it don't take a 6th grade graduate to know that we don't have our story right.
We stand up and proclaim ourselves to know the only way to salvation. They smell weakness and attempt to show us our own faults while ignoring their own. Common human behavior.
We need to read scripture for ourselves and understand it properly before we engage into a battle of wits with people that can recite scripture better than we can.
The ability to recite scripture does not = understanding.
Study of interpretation = confusion.
confusion = inviting attacks.
they hate GOD and all that he is including GODS people
I can not help but wonder at the words of Jesus as he hung on the Cross looking at those whom placed Him there.
"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"
I stand firm on those words...They know not what they do....!
and what about Jesus crying :: Oh Father ,why have you forsaken me ?
it looks like the Father didn't know either !
I'm not Christian and I jump in this forum because it's only asked "why" in the title on feed.
I'm agree with you and not let myself jump to that kind of forum. Many conversation turned ugly in those.
Excited Mom of 4,
"You never find yourself until you face the truth” (Pearl Bailey)
Fighting the truth helps to clear up any doubt about it being true when the fighters finally come to adopt the truth as their truth.
I believe that everyone is searching for something, regardless of what they think it is. Most people think that it's love, money, status or stuff. But the only thing that can fill that hole is Jesus Christ. People hear Christians say this over and over again. Maybe that's why they visit. Either way it's a good thing, because it opens the door of conversation about God.
they try to open your minds to real things which is much better than luring you to believe your religion by crazy catchy asss stories that makes you follow your religion even if it creates harm to other people and even if it doesn't make sense. these so called bashers are actually the ones making the world better=)
True. I guess if I had no belief in God, no hope after this life is over, I wouldn't have anything better to do, either!
You are an incorrigible sinner. There is no point in your visiting the Christianity threads.
Pretty much what Mark just said. The subforum header does not say 'believers of christianity only' for one thing and even if it did, it would still be a public forum.
Neither do you need to be a believer. I don't like yoghurt and when I'm around someone that starts going on about how good it tastes, how great it is - I disagree because I don't like it.
And yes, it works both ways
You're an incorrigible sinner too, froggy. If you don't stop teasing the believers you're going straight to hell with no vacation in purgatory.
I'm surprised how people are in delusion about imaginary friend. I mean like "i'll go to hell for not accepting belief", and the way people here introduce fear is what makes me laugh. I don't join it to bash but if it comes to irrationality of people who preach "i must fear, i must obey some imaginary friend & his books" and then "assuming god's position and his action/views by just mere assumption from the scriptures" is utter rubbish that makes me participate in those threads for some laugh. Besides i love to debate on topics like "free-will and god's ability to manipulate time domain". These two topics are always unanswered from any theists i have came across, i would like to meet any theists who can give me rational answer for this. But oh well even they assume things about imaginary friend so those answers will be not logical. So why part myself from this entertainment ? If people can waste their time on preaching imaginary friends and they consider it as not-waste of time then why should i think that it is waste of time ?
Cagsil! Pal, buddy! I spelled it with a small "h". And it was only a hell for froggy anyway. How are ya?
I am fine. Thank you for asking. And yourself? And, on another note, why would you tell anyone they are going to hell? Regardless of whether or not it is real? The statement isn't funny, in any comedic form.
So, I guess it isn't necessary to answer. I already have the answer.
But, does make one stop and think tho? Just a thought.
I was intended as a little poke at the thread opener. Hell is not real; how can he actually go there? You know...
Btw- Frogdropping isn't a he. She is a very fine and unique woman. Just thought you should know.
Now now boys - play nice
Cags I'm sure Niteriter was funnin' and I can take a josh. I don't mind what he said - though I don't know if I'm incorrigible. Probably closer to naughty lol!
And thankyou for your mighty fine compliment - I'd say I'm blushing here but that'd make me a liar. I feel as though someone just handed me a bowl of cream ...
Oh and the yoghurt thing? It really is vile - I can think of far better things to put in my mouth
@ frogdropping: I am an evil person and am surely bound for hell; so we can enjoy each others company there. I don't know what nasty things you'll make me do for calling you a "he" but I'll do my best to comply.
And no worries with Cagsil. He's my friend and he just loves to try and ruffle my feathers. I don't know how to break the news to him that I'm a snake with no feathers.
Ok - if we meet there, you can sit nearest the fire
I know I said you were something horrible but I forget what it was. Anyway, if you're gonna treat me like that it'll be up to you to bring the wieners.
You think you can sit and toast those in hell? My you sure don't realise how much sunscreen you're gonna need ...
I thought we already established that frogdropping was a female. lol!
I am mystified by gender which often gets me into a bit of hot water. By the way, is God a he or a she?
Trying to trick me I see. What "GOD" would you be referring to exactly?
It's universally a male and female? Hmm....?
Thanks, skyfire. If you keep this up you're gonna get a reputation for being a font of knowledge, you know. Can you help me straighten things out with Cagsil?
Straighten things out? Is there something of a miss that I don't know? Hmm....? Maybe. Of course there is but not between you and I.
As in one font of knowledge to another. I'm still a numbskull student of the mysteries of life... like gender, frogs, droppings, and pronouns like Shim.
Cagsil, I keep trying to get a good old barburner of a debate going with you but we always run out of time. I'm going to read a couple of your Hubs then I have to do some work.
You're a great guy. HubPages would be a lot more barren without you.
Hate to say it but I agree with Mark on this one
It's a discussion forum- both sides are welcomed. It would be no fun without it.
I however don't agree with the preaching hatred I don't and I'm not on a mission condemning people to eternal damnation based on beliefs either.
We are all free to believe or not believe and I respect everyone's opinions even if I don't agree with it.
I'm always up for some banter anyway so long as it does't turn into personal attacks...
I do get what you're saying can take things to far but can be easily ignored,BUT it must be said though- it's two sided, alot of Christians can be mean and petty too.
ExcitedMom you're new here it seems, stick around and get get stuck into the forums more, it's fun and you learn alot...I have, but bear in mind if it's too much for you to handle, you could choose not to go into the Religion&Beliefs forum
love the new pic Cags and cheers for the advice yesterday...it's all gravy
Thank you, but it was temp. I'm glad things are better.
Books are one-sided, doling out information that you can ingest or spit out. Whereas, forums invite debate, allowing all sides of a statement to be reviewed.
But it's not debate. It's always someone interrupting a thought and taking over the forum. It's name calling and attacking, accusing and belittling.
If you take any form of words as an insult? Then it is obvious that you need to get over yourself. If it is not obvious to you, then I am saddened.
But, don't worry, my sadness won't last long. Thank you.
But when a person who believes in God posts, you guys say you get sick of them talking about their God. Aren't those words and isn't that being insulted? Again, only you have the right..get over yourself....
Simply because of the foolish notion that people have an individual "GOD" who looks out for them.
Please, you cannot be serious.
4 BILLION "GODS" helping 4 billion people....Yet look at society? Yeah, right.
You can sell that however you want.
I have nothing to sell you. I wouldn't try to get you to believe though you guys try so hard to get others not to believe by trying to intimidate them. There is only one God. I choose to believe in him. And not because it is written.
Do you think others besides the Christians could have something to do with Society? God isn't a dictator, he doesn't make you believe.
Be realistic. Society is this way because of people not God.
I take your words with a grain of salt. You can't insult me because I have self love and self respect.
My husband, and I have practiced Ancient Jewish Mysticism together since we met. Words of authority are very powerful.
What some people might call snotty, is actually self assurance.
I'm sorry, did you say something meaningful here?
You can make whatever claims you want about whatever "GOD" you chose and on top of that you can worship whatever you want.
And, when you decide to bring you belief out into the open, then I will tell you the exact same thing I've said and yes I will continue.
The simple fact that you openly admit to practicing mysticism, simply prove you don't understand life, in and of, itself.
Either way, have a great day.
Your statement is so funny....Of course I practice mysticism openly. I'm a Kabbalist..do you know what it means?
1 belief that union with God or the absolute, or the spiritual apprehension of knowledge inaccessible to the intellect, may be attained through contemplation and self-surrender.
Actually the correct word would be "hubris."
But "snotty" will do.
Okay...apparently my post wasn't as clear as I meant for it to be. I was just curious as to why non-believers in Jesus Christ (for whom Christianity is named) would even click on the Christianity link. I think I know where most of you are coming from now, though, so basically you've all answered my question. I don't mind debating, and I am new here, so you'll have to forgive me for not being 100% sure why non-believers were posting in a "Religion & Beliefs" thread.
Another thing, I DO NOT agree with Pat Robertson at all! If you check my hub, you'll see that I have a lot of compassion towards the people of Haiti, and I do not believe it is Divine Judgment. Bad things happen. It is what it is.
My only point is this: I choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I do not practice a "religion," but instead have a personal relationship with Jesus. Religion is evil...I will agree with that. Religion has caused more heartaches and rebellion than anything else in history. So, no, I don't practice a "religion." I am a Christian, plain and simple.
Sorry if I opened a can of worms better left unopened. I was just curious.
For the record, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I have come to know that no one can change what another person believes. It is up to an individual to change what they believe.
Exactly! No need to convert anyone ... just lay your cards out on the table and let them chose as they will. If everyone did that, people would be more apt to follow their beliefs (or disbeliefs) as they would be riding the wave they chose to ride without being told it was the wrong one.
After all ... if a person saves a busload of children from going over a cliff, all because something inside him tells him it's the right thing to do - does it matter who or what he believes in? Not to those kids ...
Once again I've been humbled by frogdropping. In our highly electric banter we forgot to include you. I also say, Welcome to HubPages. Most of the folks here are great; even the nasty looking stuff is just for fun most of the time. You'll get to know who is who.
Thanks for welcoming me to HubPages. I'm glad to make your acquaintances.
Actually, there are TWO members/hubbers working on Hubs so others and newbies can learn about those who take special part in the HubPages Community.
The Men/Males can sign up
The Women/Females can sign up
I apologize for the change of topic.
Back to your topic now- btw, Welcome to HubPages!!
lol! I think Mark loves winding people up, but i have to say i love his comments.
I am not winding anyone up. I genuinely despise the christian faith, the hypocritical behavior of it's adherents and feel it is a blight on the western world destined to end in a major war with the other big political religion which has only just begun it's evangelical phase.
None of thse "christians" can agree on what this invisible super being wants and if they genuinely had a personal relationship with the dead gay guy nailed to a cross they would not feel the need to talk about it.
And here we are once again asking why it is OK for non-believers to have an opinion on the mass delusion that they insist on inflicting on all and sundry. And exitedmom - welcome to hubpages - there are lots of people here who despise your belief system and are not afraid to say so.
Although - I gather that you are a genuine christian and therefore different to the others.
lmao! ah right sorry about that, dont fancy picking a fight with you considering im one of your fans. so how many times have you been banned from the forums? was it 3 times? how long until the 4th do you think?
Nice articles by the way
I've got a question about something you said and I want to clarify your position.
You said-"This I say objectively, with an open mind, not taking a "side" but truly curious myself, though I have my own personal discernment on the matter. But I absolutely refuse to get into it. I don't think the Lord would want his people to engage in senseless, berating and arguments, but instead, exhibit the Love he has for his children. That's the key. I don't care if I'm verbally attacked for following Christ, I don't need to defend it....it's part of who I am. With no God, I'm nothing; as I'm nothing anyway, because I cannot earn within my own nature the gift of eternal salvation. Nobody is good enough"
Yet, I don't see one objective thing in your rant. I am also saddened to think that your singular life would be nothing if you didn't have your belief in Jesus.
You say "with no god, I'm nothing; as I'm nothing anyway".
This statement directly attack yourself, for absolutely no reason. Why would you feel the need to degrade yourself in public?
Do you realize that Jesus' work wasn't religious?
Just a thought?
That's okay Cagsil, for you to question this. I don't mind. It's just something you may or may not understand between myself and my faith. It's an individual belief. I do value myself as a person, and I like myself, but fall short in many ways. It wasn't until I gave my heart to God that I became closer to the person I long to be. It's a constant struggle in this life. I don't have a need to 'degrade myself' in public. It's only an expression, that's all it is. It doesn't have to be understood, I'm not looking for approval.
Oh, I see. Interesting....hmmmm.....? If that's the way you want it.
Loving God doesn't make you religious. It makes you spiritual. It's taking care of the important parts of your life which isn't always the flesh. Having someone to put your faith in when times get tough and life gets sad. It gives hope to pull you through.
I would rather believe in God, that to you may not exist than to be without any hope at all. Putting hope just in yourself, your own mind, your own answers doesn't always pull you through.
Actually, the scriptures you don't believe in has said a lot about you.
Hmm. Snotty. Condescending. Didn't actually attack anyone or anything, but made it clear you think you are better without actually saying so.
Well done. You could be a christian.
I love mirroring back. It's fun.
I'm not snotty. I speak truth. Truth hurts sometimes.
No sweetie - you were just snotty. The fact that you (lol) are so arrogant you think it is truth (lol) makes it rather funny.
But - well done. Did you husband give you permission to say that?
The truth hurts - I know.
Funny you said that because Galileo believed in God.
You hate the force but you are trying to hurt people instead.
People who hate others usually do so because they hate themselves.
You don't overawe me. Not even a smidgen:D
Oh, you mean when I said the whole Galileo controversy is a popular ancient grievance but I don't really care about it?
Did you even read that paragraph or did you just pick the word "Galileo" out and respond to that?
Well it's like how if someone get's hysterical you might need to give 'em a slap to stop them from really hurting themselves or someone else.
But I'm not even doing that. I'm just pointing out things you don't want to know. Or, more likely, don't want to admit you know.
That's okay, you'd have to actually read my posts to really get the full effect.
I don't believe in a God that is an old man sitting on a throne.
I believe, rather I know that we have to reach higher consciousness in order to affect our lives. It causes us to know things we could not know if our consciousness was not raised. That is Mysticism.
"The spiritual apprehension of knowledge inaccessible to the intellect, may be attained through contemplation and self-surrender."
may be they are trying to seek GOD intervention,so don't blame them.
through visiting who knows,they can be Christians one day
So, you still haven't figured out that many of us understand the fact that your religion is little more than a collection of Bronze Age myths and superstitions? You don't think we also understand that the criteria behind your religion is almost identical to the criteria of religions that came before Christianity?
Ok here’s the challenge, let us pray for the Paul and others like him, many of you are correct. He, they seem to be seeking. Let our prayer be, that they find HIM!
Don't waste your precious time. You're praying to no one, but yourself. Your thoughts are not going to change reality. Your individual thought has nothing to do with reality.
So, save your time.
So you dont mind, is there anything special we can pray for you about?
Cagsil,here's your chance to find out if God is real. Here's your chance to have a lot of Christians pray for you. To pray something that you would like them to pray about.
Your ignorance is showing.
You're making an ironic assumption about the ignorance of atheists, pretending all of us must have never considered your position or we'd be convinced by it, we must have always been predetermined to disbelieve otherwise we'd have prayed for something and been overwhelmed.
Cagsil has already taken the chance to determine whether or not your god is real. As have I.
I pray for Cagsil ... That when, at some later date, when he recognizes that he was wrong.. that he can forgive himself for all of those people that he has mislead.
Wow. Just read all the posts since I've been away. It is obvious that everyone has strong opinions about this subject. I had no idea that it would open up the dialogue so well. I appreciate everyone's input on the matter; you have all helped me come to a conclusion about a theory that I have been contemplating. Thank you!
As for my reasons for being a Christian, I don't feel the need to defend them. However, I would be glad to explain them if anyone wants to know why I choose to love God and others more than I love myself, which is what TRUE CHRISTIANITY is. I won't try to force my beliefs off on anyone, because, as I've stated before, no one can change what another person believes.
I hope that you all continue to debate, but I do ask that everyone respect each other. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Whether you believe in God or not is completely up to you. I will believe in Him; that is my choice. God bless you all (even if you don't believe in Him.)
To love a god more than you love yourself is the crux of why religions have been destroying mankind these many centuries. It is an ideal that has permeated and pervaded many aspects of society and the way people treat one another. In other words, mankind is meaningless in the face of those beliefs, hence mankind is doomed.
Both of those claims are wrong. Christianity is an evangelic religion, hence it is your duty as a Christian to ram it down peoples throats.
And yes, people do change their beliefs through the discussions of forums such as these. They read the opinions of others who question those beliefs and begin, once again, to use their dormant brains.
That would be fine, but Christianity does not respect me or anyone else who is not a Christian. See the problem?
For many, it was never a choice.
One of main reason for non-believers to get into a conversation, isn't for attacking, but to show rationale, reason and general common-sense values of the rest of humanity shares.
That is such a typical answer for an otherwise irrational explanation. Basically stating that mystic folk have 'no common sense', reason or rationale with regard to the "rest of humanity".
Funny, because 98% of ALL HUMANITY has some form of mystic belief.
So, by your standards, nearly 7 Billion people are stupid, thoughtless and have no common sense.
You just proved the case: human logic is irrational and limited to its own ideology. the defense rests.
so are scientists ( mystics in really cool white coats and 'tents' made of glass/steel ).
The New World medicine men.
can you make it rain, medi-man. then they'll believe you
Science has provided YOU a great deal and all you do is sit there despising it. I can't tell you how sickening that is without going off on a rant.
Why do you own a computer then?
Why do you have an internet connection
Why do you post on forums?
Why do you have good health?
Why do take advantage of everything science has provided you and then have the nerve to say such things?
What have you ever produced?
Q, according to your 'logical approach' you assume the aforementioned are good things, necessary or valuable to the existence of humanity (excluding health) .
Health in fact does not come FROM medicine. sorry to disappoint you. Health is a natural human quality. The lack of it goes way beyond your puny little scientific methods of the need-to-know.
the more you question the more questions you get. never knowing the answer because your logic tells you there is none.
and as the mystic, you stare into the stars and 'see' the future, like your ancestors -the medicine men of old (ps, they were called mystics too) you dance around the fire of your Bunsen burner waiting for the 'spirit' of truth to come and prove itself to you. You a mere mortal who cannot even calculate the slightest infinite measure of purity let alone "create" a single thing.
So, if they aren't good things, why are you using them every day? Why do you take advantage of scientific discoveries and inventions? Answer these questions.
That would clearly demonstrate your ignorance on that topic. I suspect your making this up because lying seems to come easy for you when you haven't anything to say.
You mean the less questions your able to answer and the more your able to deflect the topic. You must really think we can't see right through your thinly veiled rhetoric.
As you sit there laughing inanely at your own words, one can only afford to offer a face palm and a shaking of the head towards the magnitude of your ignorance.
he who speaks truth declares rightousness,but a false witness,deceit!!!you say we came from space dust!you say we come from apes!!!and a soup bowl!!!you lie about everything in a quest to deniy god
I heard pretty much the same thing the other day from a loony standing on a street corner wearing a sandwich board that read, "The End Is Nigh"
Was that you?
Naw, (Q), that was me trying to raise enough cash to get a bowl of soup.
the wicked is ensnared by the transgression of his lips
How about eradicating smallpox?
If you're new-age hippy talk is so much greater than science, what does it offer that compares to eradicating a global pandemic of hundreds of years?
It isn't eradicated it is kept in labs just in case they might need it I guess.
Well to utterly destroy it in the sense you're thinking you'd have to not only destroy every remaining particle thoroughly enough that its genetic material couldn't be recovered but also ensure no record of its genome exists.
But in the more meaningful sense of a 10,000 year old disease that once killed about 50 million people a year now kills zero, it's gone.
Paulie! thank goodness, we missed you.
I clearly explained -last week- that the "New Age" philosophy is the marriage of religion & science -two ancient mystics who have finally been brought together to 'show' humanity the 'way'. To show them 'the secret'
The wedding of the Millennium!!!!!!!!!!
-i hope you don't invite me, eh?
Well hey, if you missed me all you had to do was answer my challenge to actually describe what you think the problem with
science is instead of disappearing for several days.
Yeah, that's meaningless rhetoric.
Global pandemic of a debilitating and potentially fatal disease carrying on for hundreds of years eradicated. What have you got to offer that competes with that?
Yes, you've played the meaningless rhetoric card plenty of times.
Smallpox. Estimated to have existed for 10,000 years. Airborne. At it's peak caused 50,000,000 infections per year at all points on the globe. In non-fatal cases scarring was virtually assured, blindness common, and physical deformities also occurred.
Eradicated. Gone. No infections have occurred for over 30 years.
Hollow words don't hold up to preventing a minimum of 450,000,000 agonizing deaths, so what else have you got?
sorry for not indulging you, but i have been helping others 'see' beyond their own ideologies.
now you have my full attention, boy. Show me what 'ya got.
I didn't knew that medicine mens are supposed to make rain ?
my sarcasm precedes me.
not that they are 'supposed to'.
Course they are not supposed to split atomic elements either to put 98% of all humanity into a complete state of fear/control, but they did. Not supposed to destroy basic human tissue just for the sake of 'learning' but they do. Dig up a corpse to 'study' its parts and call it medicine, but they did.
etc etc etc.
Lol, you mean medicine people put humanity in fear ? Why is that ? You can always pray and heal yourself, that is faster regeneration of any wounds and don't require surgery. I wonder how many people got their kidney's healed by praying. Or even got Swine flu cured by praying ?
And for learning you say ? Why not ? if it is benefiting next generation why not ? Besides, people use body as gigai after their death ?
yes, medicine & religion have put the masses into a state of fear -one for their physical life, one for their afterlife. What a 'romantic couple'.
i have in fact healed myself -not through 'prayer' as they say nor through logical approach. Now that is something to write about.
as for benefit to the 'next generation' i don't see how we have benefited from 5,000 to 1,000,000 of human existence. We are still as the Master put it: dull.
Here we go again, adding smiley with unreasonable sarcasm to make it funny.
If you were to hate medicine and you're into that profession i could have listened to your views, but if you're not into that profession then your arguments for medicines are close to BS. It's like person who have no knowledge of guitar calls it useless.
Besides are you ignoring that we have many human tested medicines and tests which are done on humans and that is the only way we have seen how stuff worked for us. Your argument are full of sarcasm and hardly make any point. I can see some smiley's dropping on each reply with no rational point made that one should reply to.
Forums are for discussion. Sometimes discussions can become rather heated. If people don't want people of other faiths or no faith discussing their thread, they shouldn't post a thread. It is, after all, a PUBLIC forum
your 'science' has had a cure for cancer for 10 years -even type A cancer AND Hepatitis. Your solution: $$$$.
Prostitutes, in white coats, selling your potions for the highest price.
Well, no, cancer isn't even really one disease. Presenting the idea of a magic bullet to cure all cancers just reveals your ignorance on the subject.
But even in your fantasy world where a secret cure is kept hidden, that's not a failure of science, it's an unwillingness to apply it.
p-lease, i have actually studied the depths of your cancer research -so I know the truth sweetheart. don't even. You are dealing with someone who as ACTUALLY wasted their time learning about your sciences, not some diluted 'religionista', hoping for some magical cure.
Tell me about cancer then, because I think you're lying.
easy, cancer is a molecular 'dis-functional' property, having lost its electric charge. wherefore 'attacking other molecular structures in an attempt to re-electrify itself. Unfortunately, it finds it unable to do so. and thus consumes whatever energetic properties exist within the cell to 'satisfy' its 'craving'. Since it cannot fulfill its need to re-energize, causes other cells to lose their charge as well.
Now, it is a little known fact that the 'vibration' and electric property of an atomic unit of a cell -which is generally liquid H20 + elemental particles- is greater than the assumed gravity or elemental instance of measurable h2o (that is water) - meaning it is wetter than water.
thus, by making the molecule of h2o wetter than water -matching that of the human cell -the electro 'static' energy can neutralize the 'cancer' desire and neutralize its need. Thus by taking a radical cell (that being a cell less its electric property) and introducing a simple lower vibration molecule of h2o, the 'cancer' molecule will attach itself to the 'new' cell and be neutralized.
(i.e. H- [as defined as Hydrogen add Negative at a vibration of less than 10 decibels the original]
Yeah, okay, I'm curious as to where you got all, because it isn't from the study you claim to have done of medical science.
I'll be more specific.
1) How is cancer different from other diseases?
2) What is apoptosis and what is it's significance regarding most cancers?
3) What major difficulties in creating anti-cancer drugs do the answers to questions 1 and 2 point to?
it IS a failure or YOUR science. Heck even the medicine man in that tent of old understood that -and respected their limitation.
YOU people crow on and on and on about how you are soooooooo great in your achievements.
What PRECISELY have you achieved, eh? Nothing. Absolute Kelvin Zero. Nada, Zip, Net, Nin, Zilch. Or in my own tongue - Bullocks!
Highly praised, highly paid bullsh!te artists peddling snake oil to the carnival of humanity.
let me 'enlighten you on a little thing, Mr. Paulie;
no matter how intelligent or grand or progressive or smart or whatever your pee little brain can conceive -you AND your mystic lover- that 'uber' sub atomic particle you so wonder about is INFINITELY MORE POWERFUL and intelligent then you -or any human- will ever be. For it IS the stuff YOU -and your neurons- are made of.
That infinitely 'small' far exceeds YOUR understanding and will always exceed it !!!!
so all you 'scientists', 'atheists', 'mystics', preachers and the like and whine and cry over your lack of understanding, beat your chests until the sun refuses to shine -and you will ALWAYS be far LESS superior than it -and most assuredly the One who made it.
why ? your not alone in your wonder.i think everyone has their idea of god. people that bash i think share the same ideas about god of those they bash. their likeminded in a way .i love god ideas .bigger the better .
Best thing for you to do hun is ignore the religion section. I find that people who argue over Christianity are nothing more like empty vessels making a lot of noise.
IT IS LIKE THE SAME TO ASK..WHY DOES SATAN COME BEFORE GOD'S THRONE UP TILL THIS DAY?...MAYBE THEY ARE DRAWN TO THE LIGHT...OR MAYBE IT IS SATAN'S FATHER AND SON DAY AND HE STILL MISSES HIS DAD...OR MAYBE SATAN CANT CUT THE UMBILICAL CORD...THAT'S WHY SATAN'S CHILDREN DOES THE SAME...THEY SEE WHAT THEIRE FATHER DOES...
and still you scientists persist to justify. pity.
all is well though.
i congratulate the 'happy' couple on their wedded 'bliss'
"I now pronounce you man and wife (science + religion).
you may now continue to beat your bride and your chest..."
( sorry no smiley for that )
ps, paulie: you might want to have a look at Patrick Flanagan's research.
"A New Age - the Wedding of the Millennium :science + mysticism together again" coming soon to a B&N bookstore near you.
You know what all that looks like?
indeed, YOUR own ignorance.
funny, when you 'attack' your wife (theology) you feel soooooo manly and empowered. But when it comes back to bite you in the arse and you are attacked, hmmm, you run like the little cowards you are, into your 'rabbit hole'.
run warlock, run!!!!
Remember when you said you were "ready to do this" or whatever? You were going to answer my challenge to actually point to something wrong with science instead of running your half-baked metaphor further into the ground? Remember when instead of doing that you posted some word salad about being wetter than water (did you misunderstand the term "aqueous," perhaps?) and followed it up with running your metaphor further into the ground?
I think it happened because you're completely ignorant, and the only way you're going to convince me, Q, or anyone else who has the foggiest idea what they're talking about otherwise is to actually make a post with content.
You can't do it, can you?
Poor sarcasm again and with what ? Preaching that pseudo science site ?
Oh and if not pseudo check their affiliate program at the top, so pure phiscience "refer a customer and earn cash" scheme isn't pity ?
precisely my point: "New Age thinking" the two mystics reunited.
a pity, indeed.
Paulie, paulie, paulie.
"Why" as the forum topic states.
Why do you persist on justifying your ambiguity or apathy.
A mystic is a mystic. Always has been, always a hasbin*
All of it is pointless. scientist, religionist, capitalist. As stated earlier, that ultra-subatomic energy you insist on trying to control and manipulate will ALWAYS be your master. For it IS the 'stuff' you are made of.
*an individual that is past their prime and has receded into a lesser state of being.
What I keep wondering is if you're stupid enough to actually think you're being deep, or if you're fully aware how vapid you sound and this is some kind of experiment. I've seen examples of it going both ways, so it could be either or.
You assume much.
You assume that you are reasoning, but in all points simply looking for a reason.
You assume you are imperfect.
You assume i am none the wiser.
You assume you, me, we are merely the experiment or experimenter. You assume too much.
Simply said: all of these 'arguments' are relationary parallels of 'the need to know' and will always be, so long as human logic exists.
enjoy the days, my hub friend.
No. You've typed thousands of words without saying anything. That's not an assumption, it's an observation, one of those things people who mean to understand the world around them make. You may be unfamiliar.
That observation could indicate one of several things, but I don't assume any of them.
You could be spouting the same half-baked metaphor again and again as part of some experiment, maybe you're interested to see who calls you on it and who you can fool, or just in playing around with Poe's law.
You could be spouting the same half-backed metaphor again and again because you came up with it while you and your friends were high and they all thought it was the insight of the century at the time, and unfortunately your thought process isn't any more coherent sober.
Or maybe this coming off as a prophet business is just a misread on my part. Maybe you've fallen under the sway of some other self-appointed prophet and your mental capabilities have been reduced to parroting him and deriding those who disagree.
There are other possibilities, I'm sure. I don't assume any of them.
now that is exactly 'perfect'.
you are semi-correct in one statement. Though not actually an experiment, all the words said -be it from the scientific or theological 'perspective' (more like assumptions on both sides)
are simply relationary parallels of 'the need to know'.
They are of thought and therefore will always be subject to the limitation of it. No matter how they persist, prove, disprove, etc etc. The only thing they are proving/disproving is their limitation.
Pointless with regard to human beings.
Because human beings are much, much, much more than just thoughts and chemical masses.
We were designed perfectly, efficiently, having full knowledge of everything we need to know. Thus our brains had full knowledge so that we could live outside of consciousness/awareness of any need. We were designed to live and 'be' outside the finite limitations of the need to know - logic/reason/knowledge.
If anything -should you ponder them at all- you might say this proves how limited thought/logic/reason/perception/ideology/ritual/discovery/experimentation/magic carpets and statues of wood/etc, truly are...
The thing of it is if you're just playing, you refuse to break character, even though I've called you on it a couple of times. Most Poe's would, at this point, go "haha, yeah, you got me," and disappear into the internet.
So we're left with the less savory possibility that you actually think this sort of word salad is some kind of revelation increasing in likelyhood.
Indeed, you have sacrificed man, herb, beast and even your children on the alter of 'discovery'. The smoke rises higher each hour.
While your wife awaits for you to come home.
See, she has lifted her veil and exposed her bosom to you.
And you will go to her.
She has spread her legs for you in earnest and you cannot resist her. You crave her as she craves you. She resists and you beat her into submission. Still, you take refuge in her perfumes and sleep soundly upon her sheets.
For it all you love each other.
See how she cries because of the blood on your hands, yet washes them for you. See how she gives herself and you find comfort in her arms. Your strength she admires. Her resolve your desire.
What manner of child you will bear, heaven knows.
But this is for certain, your offspring will be a marvel for the ages, unlike any has ever seen...
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