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A question for believers and atheists

  1. Danny R Hand profile image61
    Danny R Handposted 6 years ago

    Why do atheists, being so logically and rationally minded, insist on going into obvious christian forms and mocking, insulting, and demeaning those who claim God? Why not start your own topics and engage amongst yourselves? Or is scoffing your sole purpose. Jesus warned us about you. 2000 years ago! Go figure.

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      Pani Midnyte Odinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The same question can go for Christians. Why do Christians go into specific forums meant for another religion and try to convert?

      The answer is simple. Even today, people are afraid of what is different.

      1. Danny R Hand profile image61
        Danny R Handposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Pani, thank you for your comment. I understand your point, although I disagree with thier behavior. My understanding is not sheepherding people, but atrraction through our own behavior.

        1. 0
          Pani Midnyte Odinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          How does sitting at your computer desk help people see the attraction of your behavior though? No offense, but shouldn't you be out in the community and trying to better the earth, rather than sitting on a computer, typing words into a public forum that people will just twist around anyway?

          1. Danny R Hand profile image61
            Danny R Handposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            LOL I dont live on my computer. I do other things as well. And I hope any kindness, compassion and/or mercy I might show, would affect those watching in a positive manner.

            1. 0
              Pani Midnyte Odinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Okay, I'll admit I was generalizing. But many Christians sit on their computer bashing other's religions as a way to "convert." Sorry for generalizing.

              1. Hokey profile image61
                Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Pani!  big_smile

                1. 0
                  Pani Midnyte Odinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi, Hokey smile

                  How's your foot?

                  1. Hokey profile image61
                    Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Sore but the swelling is starting to go down.  smile

      2. h.a.borcich profile image61
        h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I have heard other hubbers say this has happened...a religious person goes into an different religion or nonreligion thread for the purpose of converting souls. I have read many threads to see it for myself yet haven't found a single one. Would somebody be so kind as to help me find an example? I am not being lazy, but after reviewing numerous threads in which I would suspect such- I haven't found any.
        I am all for the civil debate. Discussing would be great - I learn a lot from people of all faiths.
        God Bless, Holly

        1. Moonchild60 profile image83
          Moonchild60posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          h.a. - I could never go back and find all those hubs in which I witnessed a religious person that had gone into a different religion or nonreligious threads forum as they were months and sometimes over a year ago, but I do recall having seen them again and again.  Very few were ever civil.  Everyone has their opinion and thinks they are right.  Personally, I think they should keep those opinions to themselves and simply enjoy their beliefs in their own lives and leave others to theirs.

          1. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If they did I'd leave them alone. I don't mean individuals, but collectively. If christians didn't try so hard to assert their views on our society I wouldn't feel any need to fight back.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Nor would anyone else PB. smile

              1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I'm sure you're right. Times -and viewpoints- are changing. They're threatened by reality. Guess it's hard for them to accept.

                Well, I'm turning in early tonight. Keep up that list, Earn, see ya later.

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Sleep well PB. smile

    2. 60
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The same question could be asked as to why Christians insist on going into science forums and demeaning, mocking and insulting scientists while spamming the forums with their dogma?

    3. getitrite profile image79
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      It would be nice, too, if my money did not have "In God we trust" on it, or if an oath of office did not include "So help me God" or if people would stop swearing on bibles in courtrooms. 

      We put up with your insults on a daily basis.

      And your nonsensical statement that someone warned you about this 2000 years ago is one of the many reasons why you get mocked.

    4. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why?
      Because humans are drawn toward the Light, whether they hate/rebel at it (Him) or Love/follow Him.
      We've all been issued a challenge by God.   Which way we respond depends on us.

    5. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Danny:
      Your base question portrays You as one who, obviously, hasnt taken the time to study the disgusting history and evolution of christianity.
      You exhibit abject ignorance and naivety about that which you love and worship when you make positive comments about a'belief" that has been the cause of so much pain, suffering, death and destruction and continues to do so without reprieve!
      Primitive, religious bigotry has "blinded" you!
      You, and your ilk, cannot "see" the truth!
      So, the "truth" cannot set YOU free!

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wow.  You're soooo angry....

        1. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Don't mistake my utter disgust as being anger!

  2. Pandoras Box profile image82
    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago

    If believers were generally open to rational discussion, then that would be possible.

    1. Danny R Hand profile image61
      Danny R Handposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      As for SOME non-believers,   DITTO!

    2. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And if some non-believers could refrain from making insulting generalizations about believers, rational discussion would be possible.

      1. John Cain profile image60
        John Cainposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        In my own opinion, I think that an atheist has no business in a christian forum, and vice-versa for christians in thier forums. On the same token, I have seen a scoffer of christianity, celebrate Christmas Day as everyone does. If they are true athiests, then what are they celebrating?

        1. 0
          cosetteposted 6 years ago in reply to this




          conversely, why do 'true' Christians celebrate Christmas when its origins are pagan?

          it's a holiday. time to be with family and friends...

          1. 0
            Madame Xposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            True Christ- ians celebrate Christ- mas because it is the day of Christ's birth smile

            1. Hokey profile image61
              Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No it's not.

              1. 0
                Madame Xposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                But that's what they think - whether it is the actual day or not.

                1. Hokey profile image61
                  Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Some actually believed December 25 was the birthday of Christ and tried to prove it by arguing from the conception of St. John the Baptist. Assuming, gratuitously, that Zachary was high priest and that the Day of Atonement fell on September 24, John would have been born on June 24 and Christ 6 months later, on December 25. This theory is now considered completely untenable."

                2. Disappearinghead profile image88
                  Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm a Christian but Christmas apears to have returned back to its pagan roots. That is, lots of eating and drinking to excess, decking halls with boughs of holly, bringing in a fertility tree from the garden, fairy lights and giving and recieving of presents.

                  The truth is the church sold out to Constantine. Had we kept the celebration of Jesus birth to the proper time of the yer (whenever that was) we would have a much simpler celebration and the pagan festivities would have died out centuries ago.

                  1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    That's what happens when you rewrite history!

              2. Valerie F profile image60
                Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                It is the day we choose to celebrate Christ's birth. The actual date is of no consequence to us.

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                  Madame Xposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  smile

                2. Hokey profile image61
                  Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course it isn't. None of the rest is real either so why should you worry about accuracies on this?

          2. Moonchild60 profile image83
            Moonchild60posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree. Since Christmas was originally a Pagan celebration and Christ, as all theologians know, was NOT born in December, why can't atheists celebrate it as well?   It is simply a "holiday".

        2. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          All the presents and gifts ! LOL!

      2. 60
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Rational discussion does not usually include the myths and superstitions believers adamantly claim to be a part of reality.

        1. Valerie F profile image60
          Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Rational discussion also doesn't include insulting people or calling their sacred beliefs "superstitions." For all you know, your beliefs about reality may be wrong.

          1. 60
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They are superstitions, Valerie. And, it is the ideology that is attacked, not the people who believe it. However, many who believe not only contradict reality, they contradict themselves.



            The are experimentally validated. Your god is free to change my mind and convince me that the physical laws of the universe mean absolutely nothing and can be violated on the whim of a believers prayer. big_smile

            1. Valerie F profile image60
              Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Whether or not a belief is true, it's insulting to call it superstition. How would you like it if I said that atheism has absolutely nothing positive to offer the oppressed, no moral guidance from any source higher than humanity (which has proven unworthy of that kind of authority), no justice for the poor, no vindication for the suffering, and no hope for those who need it?


              Don't call religion superstition if you don't like what I have to say about the ideology of atheism.

              1. thisisoli profile image63
                thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Did you really just compare superstition to morality?

                Of course religion is superstition. As are all cults and similar ungrounded groups which prey on the gullible.

              2. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Religion isn't superstition?  Tell that to the victims of the Salem Witch Trials.  Prominent believers murdered innocent people because of what, faith or superstition?

                1. 0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  No because a group of children lied in court and said they saw the others do magic..

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    And grown adults believed the children because of their own religious superstitions.  Another example of ignorance being confused with faith.  Need more examples?

  3. thisisoli profile image63
    thisisoliposted 6 years ago

    Remember the posts in the religious forums don't JUST appear in the religious forums. I am an atheist but on several occasions the threads i have joined in on have come from the main forums page, I have never actually entered teh main religious forum itself.

    I tend not to enter Christian discussions, more the christians who insult atheism, or try to prove atheism as wrong, or talk about atheism.

    In some cases i am tempted to enter some threads though, because like the rest of humanity, sometimes I am tempted to comment on some posts simply for the 'how can the be so stupid' factor.

  4. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Faith protection plan and nothing more jesus did to control mass. It's just a sales trick.

  5. Disappearinghead profile image88
    Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago

    I welcome the athiests in joining the Christian forum debates, and also those of other faith persuasions. If only to liven them up a bit. Rather than complaining that we feel insulted, Christians should just accept this as part of life as Jesus said it would be. He said that as long as we are in this world we will have trouble.

  6. Hokey profile image61
    Hokeyposted 6 years ago

    Yet, curiously, the Bible records nothing about the apostles or early Church observing Christmas. History shows that it wasn't celebrated until hundreds of years after Jesus Christ lived on earth, and long after the apostles had passed from the scene.

    Even more curious are the surprising circumstances under which Christmas came to be observed, and the many aspects of today's Christmas celebrations—including the date, Dec. 25—that have nothing to do with Jesus' birth, but do have a lot to do with ancient pre-Christian religions.

  7. 0
    Madame Xposted 6 years ago

    I still plan on celebrating it with everyone else smile

    1. Hokey profile image61
      Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I have no problem with that. Just saying it's not Christs birthday and is not historically a christian holiday.  smile

      1. Hokey profile image61
        Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome. This theory finds support in some of the Church Fathers' contrasting the birth of Christ and the winter solstice. Though the substitution of Christmas for the pagan festival cannot be proved with certainty, it remains the most plausible explanation for the dating of Christmas"

        1. Disappearinghead profile image88
          Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree. I personnaly resent all that goes with Christmas bah humbug. It's just a commercial racket and an excuse to indulge ourselves. There is little or no Christian content to Christmas and probably never was if we accept the pagan fusion into the Catholic Church by Constantine. Scrap the whole thing I say, and save ourselves a load of financial misery.

          While we are at it, let's scrap Easter too. That is nothing but pagan symbolism.

        2. Jewels profile image80
          Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's the summer solstice in the southern hemisphere and the pagan celebrations make good sense downunder, ie the cycle of harvest etc.  Down under we are right way up, not upside down smile

  8. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I do not know wich verson of the bible that it was, but My grandmother had a bible printed in 1876 that I was reading many years ago and I did read in it  that Jesus was speaking to his desciples concerning his dying soon, when one of them ask Jesus;  When is your birthday that we can celebrate it after you are gone and Jesus said Do not celebrate my coming into this world,  If you have to celebrate anything celebrate when I left it.
      Or something to that effect.
      Wish I remembered wich translation that it was. I'm too lazy to read them all if they were easily avaliable.

    1. 0
      Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thats why Jehovahs Witness's dont celebrate birthdays.
      Ive read it over and over and over...
      And can you believe? I forgot the name of it...

    2. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No such converstation was recorded in the Bible.

      Still, Catholic tradition places much more importance on Feast Days than birthdays. March 17 is not St. Patrick's birthday, for instance.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I know that it is not in any version of the KJV.
        I should have been more specific I should have said "Translation" as in Tyndale or Wycliffs translation. Could have been another?  It would have been one of these that were more popular in the 19th century.
          I believe that the KJV became the most popular at the turn of the 20th century.
           What ever bible that this was; I know that I read this in that bible (printed 1876)

  9. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I wonder what belief allows priests to molest children?
    As horrible as the bible hate passages are, I saw nothing in it saying "Thou shall destroy the lives of innocent children"

    1. Danny R Hand profile image61
      Danny R Handposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I understand your anger at individuals that harm, not only children, but any undeserving person. As a matter of fact, that specific behavoir is even worse for someone like myself who advocates that ssme God they do. I do not adhere to donominations, but it stills pains me to see individuals acting in such a manner. But I would ASK that you don't generalize as that suggests that we who believe would all be capable of such acts. I for one detest that type of behavoir, and although they do it, I am content that they will be dealt with in a just manner.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Those who participated in the witch trials were confident they were doing God's work.  Cotton Mather was the son of a minister.  He believed the witch stories told by the children because he was superstitious.

        Some believers seem to think they are not like those who have done wrong in God's name.  A belief in invisible beings is the first step towards other superstitious beliefs.  It gets easier for them to confuse reality with imagination.  Soon, facts and logic have no bearing on one's beliefs.  Why should they, the Bible is all they need.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The christian atrocities of today are usually less deadly, but only because their power is limited by the state. Imagine what they might impose on us if they could get away with it. Civility is a thin veneer, and it really hasn't been that long. Alot has changed in just half a century, but you hear many of them still pining for the "good ol' days".

          All it ever takes is the means to do so and one nut in a pulpit. They've got plenty of nuts, no doubt, and the willing followers. Thank goodness we've taken away their means. Like the LDS church, they know they won't last long if they don't restrict their practices to conform with the law.

    2. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The belief that the Catholic Church is above the laws of man and of God.
      It would be different if they were actually superceding man's laws  with God's laws,  but they're not.   They're hiding child molesters under their religion.   I can't think of any other church system that keeps getting by with that, openly....

      1. Jewels profile image80
        Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And have you heard the latest?  The Pope's family is embroiled in a cover up of priest atrocities.  How on earth can people align with a leader who doesn't align to the truths of it's own teachings?

      2. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I could list a dozen right now if I cared to remember. 2 of my employees were molested in other church schools that were not catholic, the "stolen generation" were raped and molested by churches other than catholic!
        The "Christian Brothers" church in Australia molested dozens of kids.

      3. Jewels profile image80
        Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma … -sex-abuse

        Exert "German victims break years of silence
        Prominent Austrian and German writers and a composer are among the hundreds of victims who have broken years of silence to talk about how they were sexually abused while in the care of clergy and teaching staff in boarding schools.
        Klaus Wittenbrink, a respected composer and pianist who attended the Domspatzen choir school in Regensburg, Bavaria, until 1967, has spoken out about the existence of a "refined system of sadistic punishments linked with sexual lust".
        For three decades until 1994 the choir was led by the pope's brother, Georg Ratzinger, who has confessed to slapping children but has said he knew nothing about sexual abuse.
        Austrian writer Josef Haslinger, who attended a Catholic boarding school, said he was sexually abused by clergy as a 12-year-old boy. "I had wanted to be a priest myself until then," he said."

      4. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Judging a whole group of people because of the acts of a few..and you're a Christian...The simple lay people usually are not aware..maybe the Head people..but not the common...unless the children tell the parents and usually they are too ashamed to tell.


        Break one tiny law or break a big one..same thing...

  10. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I must add the Anglican church. when the head of the church had a visit from one of the leaders who had known about abuse and hidden it, every choir boy at the church knew what he had done, it was all over the newspapers. My son was a chorister at the time, and all the kids warned each other about his visit.
    Can you see a pattern here?

  11. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Mormons and baptists can be added to the list of sexual abusers. I will eventually remember them all. sad

  12. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Protestants.

  13. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Oh, you can add jews to the list as well!
    (First hand experience with that one!)

    1. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My husband is a Jewish Rabbi..it wasn't him was it???big_smile

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Not unless he is obese, smelly and living in Melbourne! smile

        1. 0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yuck that sounds awful Earnest..sorry such a vile person came into your life...

          Just kidding about my husband..not him...he is so clean cut even though he has a beard and mustache...He's nice and slim and well toned...
          He loves people and shows them respect..

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            That sounds like the sort of man you would have! smile

            1. 0
              Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you Earnest..what a compliment.

              Hey you have a beard and mustache too..smile
              I love them.

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you my dear! I have been growing facial hair for a while, my grandchildren love it too! smile

  14. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Please don't feel left out folks, list your religion if I have missed it!

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
      TheGlassSpiderposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why on earth would you restrict it just to religious organizations, though? It is neither the case that such abuse happens ONLY in the presence of religion, nor that the majority of religious people condone or commit such atrocities. While I believe understand your point, the victimization of children is by no means a phenomenon that occurs only relationship with religion. Rich and poor; educated or not; Americans, British, Chinese, Australians, Irish; believers and atheists...people from all the countries of the world and all walks of life have molested children. It's a terrible problem...everywhere.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree it is not limited to religions.

        I would have thought that it was obvious that what I find disgusting is the total betrayal involved when a child is supposed to be safe in the arms of the church.
        Who else sets themselves up as the moral guardians of the world?

        Hypocrites!

  15. Jewels profile image80
    Jewelsposted 6 years ago

    I put it down to the invalidation of sex and sexual energy beyond procreation.  What is hidden and suppressed festers and becomes the pussiest boil and ends up exploding. Just like ejaculation in the presence of little boys.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The truth of it as far as I can see. smile You set up a sexual situation like abstinence and you attract child molesters. Call them archbishops, priests, they are criminal child molesters and how they can spout their sanctimonious pius crud and then molest little boys clearly shows the absurdity of their beliefs.

      1. Faybe Bay profile image82
        Faybe Bayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Possibly the reason the Bible warns against being a preacher, or staying unmarried.

        Nothing in the Bible suggests that Churches should even exist. What has been spun into separate religions were letters admonishing certain cities for doing something against teaching, not to set up new religions.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Ramen Faybe! smile

 
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