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Jesus did not die on Cross

  1. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    Jesus did not die on the Cross. He survived.

    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

    Thanks

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Good !
      And when he died, then ? hmm

      1. 60
        485naruto485posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        i am a cristion i wish heavenly i could belive you but he realy did

      2. 60
        485naruto485posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        i am a cristion i wish heavenly i could belive you but he realy did

    2. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi sock-puppet/Muhammad-puppet

      Jesus died on the Cross for you, and for everyone else.

      He is sad that you don't trust Him.

      I Love Jesus as mentioned in the Bible.

      I am a born-again so-far-peaceful Christian.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        H friend Brenda Durham

        You say Jesus died on the Cross; What for he should die and he should be happy with?

        Do you hate Jesus that you want him dead on the Cross?

        I love Jesus and that is why I don't believe that Jews were successful in proving him a false claimant of Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

        I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I explained this to you in the "Posting Scripture" thread.

          It's some religions like original Judaism and Catholicism and others which portray Him still on the Cross,  and also portray Him as taking a place alongside Mary, making Him actually look secondary to his human mother.     But He is risen and alive!!!  He is the First and the Last,  the Beginning and the End,  the Alpha and Omega.  He is, even YOUR, risen Savior if you so choose to accept His offer.

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend Brenda Durham

            Jesus did not come in the beginning of the Creation; so he cannot claim to be Alpha; Jesus did not come in the end, so he is not Omega. It is wrongly ascribed to Jesus. The Creator-God Allah YHWH is the First; He existed when he did not command to Universe or liffe to come into being ; similarly he would be the End; when he will command the Universe or life to come to an end . It is the fault of the sinful scribes to  write that Jesus was Alpha and Omega. How could Jesus calim it physically when he knew and everybody knows that Jesus was not the First or the Last?

            I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. 0
              Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              how dare you speak the name, YHWH, it is forbidden, remember?
              if you're going to follow law, follow the law or we will beat your feet with sticks as a blasphemer!

              peace-ful!

          2. obai007 profile image60
            obai007posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            God bless you Brenda Durham, the Holyspirit will continue to strengthen you.
            And to you Ahmadi, it's good that you asked to know about something you virtually have no knowledge of.
            Jesus died on a cross and rose from the dead. He defeated death so that anyone (who acknowledges this TRUTH), won't have to go through all he went through. And today HE IS ALIVE AND SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.
            Some years back, i was an atheist who never believed in anything but I have come to see Jesus Alive and at work. I have seen the sick healed, deaf ears restored, HIV/AIDS cured...and alot more.
            Am writing this with tears in my eyes because after reading this forum, I find out that A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL DON'T KNOW ABOUT JESUS.
            Consider these words carefully.
            GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

            1. 0
              Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              so, lemme ask you this "preacher", are you gonna live or die in body? think about it for a while and get back to me...

              I am a peaceful zealot-heretic-gnostic Hubpages jihadist.

          3. 60
            485naruto485posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            i acc his off of course

        2. blondepoet profile image80
          blondepoetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          How do you know he didn't die on the cross lol. Have you seen him and he told you over a cup of coffee lol?. I normally stay out of religious threads as everyone argues that they are correct and everyone else is wrong. However I respect everyone's opinion...so am just asking.
          I learned in Sunday school when I was little it was a cross.

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend blondepoet

            I thank you for a good question.

            It is certainty of reason. If you apply reason; you could see through the things mythical and superstitious. I will Cross-examine those who are said to be eye-witnesses. They were not eye-witnesses; they lose their credulity.

            I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

            Thanks

            1. mjane24 profile image60
              mjane24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You love Jesus and Mary?WHY BOTH why not only J esus?is mary your savior?

              1. 68
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend mjane24

                Neither Jesus nor Mary; none of them is my saviour; I love them for being Chosen-of-God and loved-one's of God; and because God Allah YHWH talked to them. They were human beings like Moses and his mother; I love them all.

                Thanks

                I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                1. Greek One profile image80
                  Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  you do love me too?

                  1. 68
                    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi friend Greek One

                    I love you generally as I love all the human beings of whatever faith or no-faith or color; but love for those whome God Allah YHWH chose for his Word is special.

                    My saviour is the Creator-God Allah YHWH though

                    Thanks

          2. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend blondepoet

            You just read the following book of about hundred small pages:

            http://www.alislam.org/library/books/je … index.html

            And you will know the truth.

            I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        3. Davidsonofjesie profile image60
          Davidsonofjesieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          you call him prophet and do not do as he ask,and you denie his death on the cross! the romans was experts at[ death on the cross] and how can you say he did not die?that is antichrist ideal.all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father!

      2. Hokey profile image60
        Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Jesus Puppet!   lol


        So now you presume ato assume that you know how your mythical God feels. Hmmmmm.......   Interesting.

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The Bible tells us how He feels.  If you want to know, read it.

          1. Hokey profile image60
            Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The bible means nothing. Just stories made up by people.

            1. 0
              Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And Buddha means nothing, just stories someone made up.
              And Muhammad means nothing, just stories someone made up.
              And Moses means nothing, just stories someone made up.
              And L Ron Hubbard means nothing, just stories someone made up.
              And Hollywood means nothing, just stories someone made up.
              And Richard Dawkins means nothing, just stories someone made up.
              And Chicken is not really chicken, just stories someone made up.

              Ah, the ageless story tellers.
              ( i should write a story about this [ hub ], but it wouldn't mean anything, just a story I made up).

              All day baby all day...

              1. Hokey profile image60
                Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Actually you can not include Buddha, L Ron Hubbard, Hollywood, Richard Dawkins, and chicken in your list. They are all real and can be proven by outside references. Please dont be so upset that you cant make rational replies. Have a nice day! big_smile

                1. 0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not at all upset, Hokey. I am actually amused by that statement. Merely pointing out that any spoken or written document can be called 'something someone made up'. All leaders can be said the same, they have speech writers.

                  What is ironic is that people will readily accept a thing before considering the truth of it -better said the Application of it. Else, immediately dismissing it. Because having read it or tried it, that message did not fit their perspective and now becomes propaganda. I see it constantly in here. Many ex-theists of all sides of the Ism, turning to everything ( including Donald Duck ), looking for something to satisfy and occupy the territory of hollowness, drowning out the pain, fear and discomfort of philo.

                  Indeed, have a nice day!

                  1. Hokey profile image60
                    Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Donal Duck?   lol lol lol

                    That is a good one!  lol

                    Cool. Not trying to upset people. Just discussing.

                  2. thisisoli profile image66
                    thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Except the Bible was written over three centuries after Jesus existed.  You try writing a book of teh day to day travels of someone who existed three hundred years ago without supporting documentation.

                    The whole Jesus died for out sins thing has always confused me, I mean how did his death actually help anyone, how did it absolve everyone elses sins?

                2. 0
                  Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I had chicken for lunch.

                3. Davidsonofjesie profile image60
                  Davidsonofjesieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  there were 14 different teachers of histroy who wrote about yeshua

                  1. 0
                    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    David, even without the evidence is very clear.
                    Only those seared of consciousness would continue to mock, ridicule or argue the truth hey already perceive in any measure of faith.

                    I find it humorous, entertaining more and more, every day. Reminds me of Nebu running rabid -eating grass from his own field- though once a mighty king...

              2. cheaptrick profile image69
                cheaptrickposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                James!...you Rascal!of Course Chicken is Chicken!
                I think your just avoiding the Chicken and Egg question!!
                Tsk Tsk...and your a Chef at That!
                Question!Why does Everything we cant Identify taste like Chicken?

                1. 0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  DEAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  sup my brotha from another motha?!

                  oye, they let this zealot-heretic out for a walk and look what happened: I cooked them both. Ha!

                  1. cheaptrick profile image69
                    cheaptrickposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Like I said in one of your Hubs,
                    I like the Smiling pic Best!...And your Recipes have EXPANDED MY TASTE BUDS!!!
                    When I get Back from The Tortuga's We gotta Talk!Marisa thinks your Project looks good at first glance.
                    Hijack!Hijack!...Keep Cookin Bro!

            2. 0
              Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Did Buddha (sp?) die for you Hokey?

              It is he who simply made up a lot of his stuff so that people would follow his teachings.

              Jesus actually "put His money where His mouth is" as the old saying goes.   He walked on this earth for one reason and only one reason, and He died for one reason----so that you and anyone else could be saved and have eternal Life.

              1. Hokey profile image60
                Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                See Brenda that is where you go wrong. You cant proclaim these stories as if they are factual. There was no Jesus who died for any of us. Never resurrected. Washed away our sins in his      . (now that is just       and dark). Buddha discussed principals of life that are true. Impermanence, karma, suffering, and interconnectedness of all. All these principals deal with real life and are known and proven. There are no stories and myths of super human miracles and such.

          2. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend Brenda Durham

            Bible is not written by Jesus; it is written by scribes who deserted Jesus because of lack of belief in Jesus; and hence they have no credulity, they just wrote out of hearsay; they were hardly themselves witness of the events of Jesus in particular about the events of Crucifixion.
            Please believe in Bible where it appeals to reason; and leave it when it becomes mythical or superstitious.

            I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        2. 0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          big_smile

        3. mjane24 profile image60
          mjane24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          your god is satan

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Your god doesn't exist! lol

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
              ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              your doesn't either! lol

          2. ceciliabeltran profile image85
            ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            dude, easy.  you don't even know who or what satan is.

      3. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Peaceful?

      4. luvpassion profile image59
        luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I have to ask...and you must excuse my ignorance as I haven't been here  that long. I've heard this mentioned before. Who is Sock-Puppet?

        Teri

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          A..sock puppet is, from what I understand ('cause I really haven't been here very long either) is a person who uses a separate account and/or really isn't interested in being a Hubber and only posts some threads to get people goin'....

          Some other Hubber can maybe define it correctly for you and me both! 
          Somebody please do!


          Nice to see you this morning Teri.

          1. luvpassion profile image59
            luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Good morning Brenda...It seems that really every one on here is anonomous so why use this sock-puppet person?

          2. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think a sock-puppet is an account created by someone specifically for the purpose of agreeing with themselves or arguing in favor of themselves.  smile

      5. Paul Wingert profile image79
        Paul Wingertposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If Jesus (if he even existed) never was crusified, we probably would never of heard of him. All of these miracles that he alegally performed and claims of him being the son of God were all written 30+ years after Jesus' death by people who never met him. Compaired to calling the Titanic unsinkable and so on. The owners and builders never claimed the ship was unsinkable. That BS was created by the press. The stories got bigger and wilder after the ship sank.

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "The owners and builders never claimed the ship was unsinkable. That BS was created by the press. The stories got bigger and wilder after the ship sank."

          This is a story and not reality as the Titanic was the first ship build with water tight bulkheads and so it was technically unsinkable .Sadly the water tight doors were not closed and thats the reason the Titanic sunk.

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Paul Wingert

          Jesus did not claim to be a magician. He was simply a Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH. He was a Physician and God heard his prayers; so he served humanity with his knowledge of the medicine and with his prayers; both these things together could do wonders.

          But Jesus could, therefore, only cure the near-dead. Like Lazarus; he was not a physically dead; with Jesus’ prayer and medicine he got cured.

          It is said that the ointment, prepared from the basic ingredients of aloe and myrrh, with which Jesus was treated in the tomb by Nicodemus and his other friends, its prescription was taught to them by Jesus himself prior to the incident of crucifixion. It is for this that the prescription is known in the ancient books of medicine with the name Marhum-e Issa or Ointment of Jesus.

          I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    3. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Muhammad did not hear an angel, he lied.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Beelzedad

        How do you know?

        Would you kindly be more elaborate.

        Thanks

    4. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So what ?
      Why do the cross makes a difference ?
      He's dead. Period.
      He died for our sins.
      But nothing changed.
      We're worse than ever !
      Pointless death !  Pointless story. Pointless Religion.  lol

      1. IntimatEvolution profile image82
        IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You recognize his death, and yet you pretend to act as an Atheist? Your hatefulness towards believers, speaks volumes about your true nature Tantum. 

        Just as I suspected.

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I'm not saying I believe it. I'm just stating what you believe.
          But you know that, of course! You're not stupid! lol

          Nor anybody else is!

          I think ??? hmm

          lol

          1. 0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, the Christians who harass people and are always trying to cause trouble, Even slandering others..Now, telling you, that you are hateful.  lol

            Such Love
            http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39408?page=4#post913805

            Doesn't it make you want to pick up your cross and follow that doctrine?! lol

            Hello Tantrum!

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol
              Hi Deborah !
              It makes me want to pick a cross ( I don't earn one) and beat them on the head with it !
              big_smile

              1. 0
                Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Don't reply again..OK
                You know what I mean.

          2. IntimatEvolution profile image82
            IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            So are you looking to bash your Christian daughter's head in?


            I think your tone borders on hate speech. 

            Beating people up with crosses? 

            Nice.

    5. IntimatEvolution profile image82
      IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I have to say, that I completely believe that your text on the subject matter is incorrect.  However, I would think this because I'm a Christian.  Therefore, believe what you want and I'll believe it my way. 

      To each their own.

      1. Isabelle22 profile image61
        Isabelle22posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I like that answer. Each to their own beliefs, why argue it???? smile

    6. Rossimobis profile image38
      Rossimobisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi folks,peace and love unto all.As a matter of fact,we all have different views and many a time i have seen a Christian say things that are not even recorded in the Bible and is far from Christian moral beliefs.Regarding this particular issue,Christ Jesus died o the CROSS OF CALVARY.He took the pains of death that I and I will be saved,he was brought down dead from the cross and laid to rest.

      paarsurrey,i got your point of view but you are wrong,Jesus died on the cross but he over came the powers of death.If you are still in doubt then,tell me where he died and if he was breathing when he was brought down from the cross.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Rossimobis

        Just think why Jesus trusted friends took him to a solatary spacious and airy tomb; lest he gets suffocated. There they treated his wounds with the available large quantity of herbs of aloe and myrr. It is mentioned in the Bible; please see through it with your reasonable mind.

        I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. 0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Your acting isn't very good.

    7. sagbee profile image59
      sagbeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I did not know that Jesus was not dead when hunged on the cross.. and in fact many people of other religion also don't know this fact.. Well, he was the saint soul and this is teh reason may be he did not die...I believe on Jesus and love him..

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend sagbee

        One may believe whatever one likes but it is a fact that Jesus did not die on the Cross. If one loves Jesus, one should accept this fact.The Jews wanted to kill Jesus to prove that he was a fals Prophet in terms of Torah:

        But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain. Deuteronomy 18:20

        The Creator - God Allah YHWH saved Jesus against all odds to prove that Jesus was a truthful Prophet Messenger.

        I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    8. 0
      loisryanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      True he survived-When he defeated Satan and rose from the dead three days later

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend loisryan

        What did make Jesus a god that he established a similarity with Jonah?

        1.    Period of three days
        2.    Going in the belly of the fish/tomb
        3.    Praying to the Creator

        When Jonah could not become a god; how could Jesus become?

        Just think with reason. Jesus remained a human being; the only similarity was that like Jonah; Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    9. goldenpath profile image81
      goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Although I deeply disagree with your hypothesis I do respect your freedom to believe such and to spread it around like yummy peanut butter.  However, did you know that the coroner munchkin off of "The Wizard of Oz" did, indeed, die recently?  This is Earth shattering news! sad

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend goldenpath

        What has it to do with the topic? please

        Thanks

        1. goldenpath profile image81
          goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Everything!  I can prove the munchkin died.  In this day and age it takes no faith to prove such a thing or the effect he had on family and fans.  With Jesus Christ one must look beyond that which is written in the Bible, stars, telephone book or even a napkin with which we wipe our mouths with.  He is the Infinite Atonement.  His full measure in our lives can only realized and magnified through faith and application of the principles and precepts He taught.  Through this I can testify that He did suffer and was slain upon the cross.  Even further I can testify that He had to utterly do this alone.  Utterly!  He, Himself, was amazed and grieved as He progressed into the Garden.  That was the Holy Spirit leaving His bodily temple.  He had to take on this duty, responsibility and toil utterly alone - even at the expense of the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit.  That is massive and significant! 

          So you see, you may succeed in persuading many that Jesus Christ was less than our Savior and Redeemer.  Yet, for those few of us who have taken the time to learn through faith and application we know for a surety that He is the One who reconciled us to the Eternal Father.

    10. kaja_mel profile image59
      kaja_melposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I didn't know there were people still alive today that witnessed the crucifixions performed by the Roman Empire. Were all the crucifixions a lie? Capital punishment is still going strong today in the form of  the "Death Penalty". Yes I am a Christian and believe in the crusifixion of Jesus, but I was not there and I did not see and I don't believe anyone else here did either. However we will all know one day when we die and if we ressurect. If Jesus did not die on the cross, the whole basis of Christianity is lost and we better learn the art of sacrificing animals to atone for our sins. I love Jehovah God and I believe He gave us his son for this purpose, and He gave us to His son as an eternal gift.

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        evidently, parasurrey beleives that he got up and went to India.
        He also believes that this gentleman was the second coming...

        http://umersultan.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mirza_ghulam_ahmad.gif

        right, parasurrey?

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          i've read that book, it was interesting.

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes it is.

          Thanks

      2. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend kaja_mel

        At a time when most of the business was conducted under barter; animal were considered as very precious; in the middle east having a herd of animals was considere as financial richeness; a status symbol, so people sacrificed animals as an intention of sincerity or goodwill.

        Bible took it wrongly that it was essential to sacrifice animals for atonement of the sins. It was a wrong concept; like so many other in Bible. The Creator- God Allah YHWH never wanted that; He does not need it.

        Quran clears the real concept:

        [22:35] And to every people We appointed rites of sacrifice, that they might mention the name of Allah over the quadrupeds of the class of cattle that He has provided for them. So your God is One God; therefore submit ye all to Him. And give thou glad tidings to the humble,
        [22:36] Whose hearts are filled with fear when Allah is mentioned, and who patiently endure whatever befalls them, and who observe Prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them.
        [22:37] And among the sacred Signs of Allah We have appointed for you the sacrificial camels. In them there is much good for you. So mention the name of Allah over them as they stand tied up in lines. And when they fall down dead on their sides, eat thereof and feed him who is needy but contented and him who supplicates. Thus have We subjected them to you, that you may be thankful.
        [22:38] Their flesh reaches not Allah, nor does their blood, but it is your righteousness that reaches Him. Thus has He subjected them to you, that you may glorify Allah for His guiding you. And give glad tidings to those who do good.
        [22:39] Surely, Allah defends those who believe. Surely, Allah loves not any one who is perfidious or ungrateful.

        http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=34

        Animal sacrifice has nothing to do with the atonement of sin.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          animal sacrifice had a lot to do with what priests ate for dinner!

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend ceciliabeltran

            You are right; the scribes and the priests changed/corrupted the Message.

            Thanks

            1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
              ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              all hungry people in power fall into that temptation, not just priests.

              They were not allowed to eat until a priest blessed their kill, which meant the priest gets a share. So in this context, should we take everything our churces/temples say literally?

              1. 68
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend ceciliabeltran

                We should not believe churces/temples blindly. We should believe with research and reason.

                Thanks

                I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
                  ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  agree, i understand that you are trying to educate people on the message of Quran as many do not know what it is about.

                  1. 68
                    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi friend  ceciliabeltran

                    The world needs that the peaceful Message of Islam/Quran/Muhammad spreads to every nook and corner of Earth and illuminates it.

                    Thanks

                    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                2. Beelzedad profile image59
                  Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thinking scuttles believing.  smile

          2. mjane24 profile image60
            mjane24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            allah is teaching muslims to hate people thats their books says.

            1. 68
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend mjane24

              There is nothing like this in Quran; please quote from Quran text of a verse with the usual context of five precefing and five following verses then establish your viewpoint.

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    11. mjane24 profile image60
      mjane24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      bible says that if you dont believe Christ that he died you are a lier and truth is not your heart.

      1. mjane24 profile image60
        mjane24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Christ did die on the cross.heb.9:22

      2. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friends

        Bible is not a Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH; nor even a word written by Jesus or dictated by him or written under an express authority from him. Jesus did not die on Cross.

        I think where you have quoted from is from clever Paul a false Prophet. One doesn't have to believe in Paul.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Dear me Paarasuy peaceful muslim,

          Paul was just a man with an understanding he wished to share. Just like you. 'False Prophet' is not cool. But I understand because why you are angry at Christians given that they too are ignorant of your beliefs.

          Take it easy.

          peace,
          cecilia

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend ceciliabeltran

            I am not angry with Christians; they are good people.

            Thanks

        2. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Quran is not a word from the creator, nor even a word written by Muhammad or dictated by him or written under an express authority from him.



          One doesn't have to believe in Muhammad.

          smile

    12. SunSeven profile image62
      SunSevenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Really?

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend SunSeven

        Ho dod you understand it ?

        Thanks

    13. angel115707 profile image79
      angel115707posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      it is written that anyone who claims to go beyond the gospel of Christ as the son of God and who died and was resurrected  is so evil, you are not to let them in your home.
        It is also written that the devil masquerades as an angel of light...like your precious version of Gabriel  I have read in your quran...the words sound very familiar...like the old accuser of the brethren....creepy...your rumors of Christ in that book are soap opera fakes....of that time period....

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend angel115707

        Not everything written is always correct; Jesus never write any Gospel; the Gospel are written by person who deserted Jesus and did not believe in him. Jesus never taught what they ascribed to him, Please read gospels with care.

        I love Jesus as mentioned in Quran.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    14. 0
      pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hello my friend paarsurrey,

      We have a growing body of documentary evidence to support your view, but then the Bible is shoot-through with fiction and any support the books of the holy word draw from the bible is brought into question...for the entire Christian theology rests on the belief that Jesus died on the cross...

    15. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If you accept the Islamic version. Then Allah is a God who would not only lie... but would place an innocent man on the cross to decieve those around him into believing they had crucified them.

      So Allah is a liar and a murderer.

      And Pburg...

      Where is this growing body of documented evidence?

      It doe not exist. lol

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend TMMason

        It is the Jews who put Jesus, an innocent man on the Cross; the Creator-God Allah YHWH saved Jesus a cursed death on Cross. I think you are blaming wrongly. Please review your stance.

        Thanks

        I am and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. TMMason profile image74
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Christ was crucified. I am blaming no one.

          I am pointing out the fact that if your allah allowed an innocent man to be placed on the cross in Christ's place. He is a muderer. And a deciever. your Islam speels that. Not me.

          hahahaha

          if you cannot understand ny statement... ask me an I will clearify.

          And now you say...  "It is the Jews who put Jesus, an innocent man on the Cross;"

          So was he or was he not crucified? You cannot have it both ways.

          of course Islam blames the jews for everything... why not something they claim never happened also.

          lol you guys r funny.

          Off to the Drs now.... see ya in a few if you want to really learn what your religion says about Christ. Obviously you don't have a clue.

  2. luvpassion profile image59
    luvpassionposted 6 years ago

    ?

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend luvpassion

      Jesus remained for a few hours(2/3 hours) on the Cross; and nobdoy dies on the Cross in such short period. The other two persons, the thieves did not die; so why should Jesus have died so soon? You know even the Roman official- Pilate, exclaimed surprise when they told that Jesus had died. This was only a pretext that Jesus' legs may not be broken.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ...with a time machine, apparently

      2. TMMason profile image74
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Without a perch... or if one choose not to seat themselves after crucifixion. then one could die within 40 mins from heart failure. French studies have shown this to be a fact. So I think you ought to reconsider your statement. Also once the curifourgium,(the breaking of the shins of the prisoner crucified.) was performed that death followed not long after.

        So to make a bloated unfounded statement such as no one dies that fast on the cross is unsupportable.

  3. 0
    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago

    I'm sorry I just got home from work, what?

  4. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    Brenda, great new Avatar!

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks James.

      1. aguasilver profile image88
        aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yep, I'll second that.... this 'eye' thing is becoming popular!

        John

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah I know.
          ...I had that avatar at another site a long time ago, and still in my files....

          I liked yours from the first time I saw it too!

          I'm curious about your screen name.   It doesn't say "aquasilver", it's "aguasilver".

          Is there a special meaning to it?
          ..Only if you want to share.

          So many of the screen names around here are very interesting!
          smile

          1. aguasilver profile image88
            aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I had/have a business selling colloidal silver in Spain...

            Agua = water

            Now that business has more of less closed down, what with recession and Codex Alimentarias making it hard to maintain, but I like the name aguasilver, so I keep it alive, besides which, I have used it for eight years!

            1. 0
              Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Water is AQUA...never heard of AGUA

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                In Spanish is Agua

                1. 0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Ohhh..I didn't know that. I live with Latin people all around me too...Ummm..guess I need to pay attention. smile

                  Thanks for letting me know.. smile

                  1. tantrum profile image60
                    tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    It's never late to learn something new ! smile

  5. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    "Friend" muslin: explain to us this then, please.

    The Qur'an talks about crucifixion as punishment in Egypt.

    "Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on apposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the Cross."[Qur'an 7:124]

    Pharaoh said: You put your faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he doubtless is your chief who taught you magic! But verily ye shall come to know. Verily I will cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and verily I will crucify you every one. [Qur'an 26:49]

    (Pharaoh) said: "Believe you in Him before I give you permission? Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic! be sure I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will have you crucified on trunks of PALM-TREES: so shall ye know for certain, which of us can give the more severe and the more lasting punishment!" [Quran 20:71]

    These three passages from the Quran tell the story of Moses which occurred between 1450 - 1200 BC. There is another mention of crucifixion in the Quran:

    "My two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: as for the other, he will hang from the CROSS, and the birds will eat from off his head...[Sura 12:41]

    1. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes well, Moses performed Magick also

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        indeed. was explaining to 'the friend Muslim' that crucifying was that old. apparently it scared him/her off.

    2. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Twenty One Days

      So what is that you did not understand from the verses you have quoted?

      What is exactly your question? Please elaborate.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. TMMason profile image74
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        again your Jesus is not our Jesus... so you can love him all you want.

        I know your Jesus is coming to (and I quote the Al'Hadith here...) "Shatter the crosses and slaughter the swine"... a direct refrence to your jesus destroying and killing all the Christians and jews.

        So to sit here and try to make as if your Jesus is the correct jesus, and we just have a few facts wrong is so disingenious it is not funny.

        The Quran does not even have the fact of who Jesus is correct. The Qu'ran states and I quote again... "Jesus son of mary, sister of Arron" WRONG... The Sister of Arron is Mariam... 2000 years before Christ.

        But that just highlights the fact that the Qu'ran is a great confabullation of Arabic poetry... and nothing more.

        Have a nice day.

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend TMMason

          I think you have not understood it correctly.

          Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, has not killed a soul. He explained that Jesus did not die on Cross; and this way he refuted the wrong concepts of the present Christianity founded by clever Paul and the errant Church. Similarly he refuted the concepts of those Christians who believe that it they (the Christians)who have killed Jesus on the cross for the atonement of their sins. The refutation of this weird concept is killing the swine; if one understands.

          What is bad about it?

          It is the Christians who believe in a mythical Jesus; so it is  they who differ with the Real Jesus.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. TMMason profile image74
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Wrong.

            You can try  to twist it all you want. but it is wrong.

          2. TMMason profile image74
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The fact is Islam finds Christianity to be Shirk, polytheism. the highest of all sins. Also Islam is anti-thetical to both christianity and judaism. it is a fact. the three cannot co-exist because muslims are under fard, (obligation) to destroy all corruption from the world. That is a fact.

            So to sit here and play the friendly muslim just trying to show us the errors of our ways. is a bunch of BS.

            You are practicing tiqqiya, right know.

            1. 68
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend TMMason

              It is the Christians , clever Paul and errant Church who believe in  Trinity or shirk. Jesus never believed in Trinity; he was a Jew.

              Jews and Christians are my friends.

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

              1. TMMason profile image74
                TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Again read my comment. it is islam which believe all christians are polytheist. And that belief is false. they are not. not all Christians believe Christ to be God.

                but as the arabs call the beduins the "Sons of the road". Christians call Christ the, "Son of god."

                is that too complex?

                here is my question for you...

                What is the punishment for the sin of Shirk?

                And what if anything is fard upon the ummah, if they find polytheists among the community?

                Do they co-exist and tolerate the polytheists?....

                I am off to the Drs. Will look for my answer when I return.

                1. 68
                  paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi friend TMMason

                  It is good that at least you don't believe in Trinity and that Jesus is no god.

                  Would you please inform us; what % of Christians don't believe in Trinity and that Jesus is no god?

                  What is your denomination please?

                  Thanks

                  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                  1. TMMason profile image74
                    TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    A conversation requires both parties to participate. So if your not going to answer my questions. I won't answer yours.

                    So. One more time...

                    Here are my questions for you...

                    What is the punishment for the sin of Shirk?

                    And what if anything is fard upon the ummah, if they find polytheists among the community?

                    Do they co-exist and tolerate the polytheists?....

                    I will answer yourquestions as best I can.

                    % of christians who do not believe christ to be God .

                    Could not tell you. But I am not the only one. I have met many and still meet more every day.

                    I believeCto be the Son of God, (In the ephemral sense. Such as the bedouins as the, "sons of the road".) I also believe, as many Christians do, the we are all the children of God. Sons and Daughters of the Most High God.

                    My Denomination?...  I am a Christian. As in I follow the words and ways of Yashua, the Christ.

                    Of what denomination of Islam are you? And do not say there are no denominations in Islam. Because there are.

                    I don't mind debating or speaking with you, Almadhi. But if you do not answer me. I will not answer you. And then we will do nothing but snipe and talk "AT" each other. Instead of too one another.

  6. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    This might help.

    Babylonian Sanhedrin, Jewish records 43a. Yeb. IV 3; 49a:,

    "On the eve of Passover they hanged on a tree Yeshu [of Nazareth] and the herald went before him for forty days saying [Yeshu of Nazareth] is going forth to be stoned; in that he practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel. Let everyone knowing in his defense come and plead for him. But they found naught in his defense and hanged him on the eve of Passover."

    Roman Historian Tacitus, Annals 15.44
    "..people called 'Christians', hated for their abominable crimes. Their name comes from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate."

    Lucian of Samosata, a Roman satirist (c. 175 AD):

    "..the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world... Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshiping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws."

    Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 18:63-64:
    "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people; as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the "Messiah". When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified. Those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him..."

    are these historians writing actual events or did they all make them up and why.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      right twenty one.

  7. prayn4u profile image61
    prayn4uposted 6 years ago

    If you research the Romans way of torture it is documented...They did this to so many people who did a crime.

    I can only share with you what I believe as TRUTH I cannot make you believe this and neither will God...FAITH and Trust are up to us...I pray those who read this that God Himself will open your hearts,minds,eyes and ears to His Love for YOU!

    I am humbled to be a Christian...particularly in this day and age...Take a minute to read this. It might help you...

    THE SCIENTIFIC DEATH OF JESUS
    At the age of 33,Jesus was condemned to the death penalty.

    At the time crucifixion was the "worst" death. Only the worst criminals condemned to be crucified.Yet it was even more dreadful for Jesus, unlike other criminals condemned to death by crucifixion Jesus was to be nailed to the cross by His hands and feet. Each nail was 6 to 8 inches long. The nails were driven into His wrist,not into His palms as is commonly portrayed. There's a tendon in the wrist that extends to the shoulder.The Roman guards knew that when the nails were being hammered into the wrist that tendon would tear and break, forcing Jesus to use His back muscles to support himself so that He could breath.

    Both of His feet were nailed together. Thus He was forced to support Himself on the single nail that impaled His feet to the cross. Jesus could not support himself with His legs because of the pain so He was forced to alternate between arching His back then using his legs just to continue to breath.
    Imagine the struggle, the pain, the suffering, The courage.

    Jesus endured this reality for over 3 hours. Yes,over 3 hours!
    Can you imagine this kind of suffering? A few minutes before He died, Jesus stopped bleeding. He was simply pouring water from his wounds. From common images we see wounds to His hands and feet and even the spear wound to His side. But do we realize His wounds were actually made in his body. A hammer driving large nails through the wrist, the feet overlapped and an even large nail hammered through the arches, Then a Roman guard piercing His side with a spear.

    But before the nails and the spear Jesus was whipped and beaten. The whipping was so severe that it tore the flesh from His body. The beating so horrific that His face was torn and his beard ripped from His face. The crown of thorns cut deeply into His scalp. Most men would not have survived this torture. He had no more blood to bleed out, only water poured from His wounds. The human adult body contains about 3.5 liters (just less than a Gallon) of blood.

    Jesus poured all 3.5 liters of his blood; He had three nails hammered into his members; a crown of thorns on his head and, beyond that, a Roman soldier who stabbed a spear into his chest.

    All these without mentioning the humiliation He passed after carrying His own cross for almost 2 kilometers, while the crowd spat in his face and threw stones (the cross was almost 30 kg of weight,only for its higher part,where his hands were nailed).

    Jesus had to endure this experience, so that you can have free access To God.
    So that your sins could be "washed" away. All of them, with no
    exception! Don't ignore this situation. JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR YOU! For You... Do not believe that He only died for others!!!

    All you have to do is accept this reality,the truth that JESUS IS THE ONLY SALVATION FOR THE WORLD.God has plans for you, show all your friends what He experienced to save you,from eternal separation and hell.

    May God bless your life!

    60 seconds with God...
    For the next 60 seconds, set aside what you're doing and take this opportunity!
    If you are not ashamed to do this, please, follow Jesus' instructions. He said (Matthew 10:32 & 33): "Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; but whosoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven".

    Yes, I love God. He is my source of life and my Savior. He keeps me alive day and night. Without Him, I am nothing, but with Him "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me". Philippians 4:13.

    "Write your plans in pencil and let God have the eraser." amen

    1. Hokey profile image60
      Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Next time try less copy and paste and try to use your own words.  neutral

      1. prayn4u profile image61
        prayn4uposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I am sorry but, it was the best way to say what I wanted to say in this post...
        I did try to remove and add my own thoughts to it... :-)

        1. TMMason profile image74
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There is nothing wrong with sourcing your info to rubutt. it does not make it any less pertanent to the conversation.

          Why don't all you muslims post the truth about the jesus of the Qu'ran./

          i will tell you why.

          because you know everyone would see the flaws of your religious works. they would see your mimikery of our Christ is so far from the truth it isnt funny.

          Anyone who wants to know the truth about the Islamic Christ... simply ask and I'll show you thier own sources and where Islam derives thier falacies about Christ and the fact that he is coming to destroy all christians and jews.

      2. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How would that help since everyone says there is no proof.

        If he wrote in his on words people would say he made it up.

        If it wasn't for written documentation we wouldn't know anything about history..showing history is necessary.........

    2. 0
      pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Dear Friend paarsurrey

      I believe your history of Roman torture correct. The reason the Romans hung a person on a cross to produce a slow death and deter other people from crime.

      Also, I read accounts of carrion-eating birds and scavenging animals gathering around the crucifixion sites. And I read reports of people writing about the stench of death they endured as they traveled the roads lined with people on the crosses. So, I have no doubt the Romans left their victims the cross for several days...

      And in more recent times - around 1200 AD - the Christian king of the European fiefdom - Transylvania - Count Dracula hung Muslims and heretics from the cross and again let those poor souls slowly starve to death... In fact, he put the whole population of a town on crosses and invoked so much fear because his victims died a most painful death, that he encountered no opposition at other villages and towns...

  8. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    that says it all:

    All of them, with no exceptions!

    whether people choose to accept or else, is irrelevent.
    all have been saved, all of humanity.

    maybe now they'll stop bantering about it and start appreciating it. Cheers!

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That would be nice.
      But you've buried your head in the sand on this issue, James.
      There are souls to be saved and a commission to fulfill.....I wish you were among those who had that burden for lost souls....

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Brenda, you're a sweetheart and I thank you for it.
        My zeal goes so far beyond the pulpit; it used to scared the sheep outta me and the sheep around me.

        Had a career ministers son, in the face of the entire congregation, ask me personally to teach the people about faith, because they were hungry for faith, while his dad was too busy playing power, politics and alter calls. Next was a monster of a church, 10,000+ strong, that moved me to the point where I almost vomited from 'holy ghost', healing, etc lies.

        After 'backsliding' as the term goes, came to the point of enough is enough. Just after it became evident. There are no lost souls, only souls that don't get it. My calling -if one- is to tear down every stronghold of the gods of baal, who have practiced evey magic art and potion; taught lie upon lie using the Truth; every temple made of stone brought to nothing brick by brick and every heart of ice, melted by fire. Restoring them to Grace -far exceeding books and building and bullsh!te.

        A zealot heretic to the core.

        Anything else, according to all the books & letters, is the Ism propaganda.

      2. Hokey profile image60
        Hokeyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You really are lost huh? I mean you actually believe this. What is it liked to be brainwashed?

        1. 0
          Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          pretty awful. It sucks alot, really.

          1. 0
            Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            unless you only belive the good stuff, then it must be awesome.

            Im only speakinf for myself, I did not care for brainwashing and to this day occcasionally suffer ..umm..symptoms due to it.

      3. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ironically, i have more faith to believe the likes of Knowles, Earnest, Hokey -even Q & Quark- come to Grace easier and much more appreciative, than any bible bearing 'believer'.

        As they shout loudly and dance around the room; i sat watching like Elijah. Yes, shout louder, maybe your god is in the bathroom (literal Hebrew translation) and can't here you. Yes, keep evoking.

        Then he turned and filled the alter, the sacrifice and the rocks all around with water. Fire came down and consumed it all. The Water of Life and the Fire of the Spirit!

        1. 0
          pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          My good friend 21days

          Richard Dawkins shouts loud and dances around the room, albeit in the opposite direction to religious fanatics

          Would you agree that ideological fanaticism is not the sole province of faith-based 'religion'?

  9. Hokey profile image60
    Hokeyposted 6 years ago

    I dont need your benevolent sky fairy for salvation which is a nice thought but just that. A thought. Thoughts arent real either. You do know that don't you?

    1. 0
      pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thoughts are real. Thoughts have a physical presence, in the form of energy within the neurological structures that make up your mind... Thoughts can move you to act, or move you to not act... Thoughts have very real power in the same sense that electricity has power - the capacity to make that's happen...

  10. Bard of Ely profile image88
    Bard of Elyposted 6 years ago

    I have heard he went to India, and to America, according to Mormons, and to Venus, according to the Aetherius Society!

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Bard of Ely

      If you have an interest in the subject; you should make a research, till you achieve certainty of reason. Never have a blind faith; as blind faith is no faith. Jesus believed in reason; that is why he was so steadfast even on the Cross. And that is why he escaped death on Cross.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. thisisoli profile image66
        thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Make a hub about it smile

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend thisisoli

          I will make a hub on this subject; but I don' know how to make it. Please guide me.

          Thanks

          1. 0
            pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            My good friend paarsurrey

            To make a hub look at the top of your Hug-page - you will see a link to 'start a new hub'. I look forward to your efforts

            Cheers

  11. aka-dj profile image79
    aka-djposted 6 years ago

    If Jesus din't die on the cross, then.......
    Everybody is right. Everybody is wrong.
    Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong.

    There is a Hell. No, there isn't.
    There is life after death. No there isn't.

    Religion? There's no such thing.
    But wait, there are religious people.
    Oh, yeah. They're deluded.
    No. It's the atheists that are deluded.
    No. Nobody is deluded.
    Gee, this is all to hard to figure out. hmm

    I think I will stick to the truth, that Jesus IS risen from the dead.
    I believe it, and it bennefits me IMMENSLY.

    As always, you all make up your own minds (as most of you already have). cool

    1. 0
      Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "I think I will stick to the truth, that Jesus IS risen from the dead"

      I personally think that really is the only thing that should matter. I don't think he cares if you say "cross" or "stake"...

      1. aka-dj profile image79
        aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        In actuality, it's not even so much that He died. Anyone can (and will) die. Nothing special there. (Having said that, though, His death was not like any other man's either)!
        It's the ressurection that's key. That's what sets Him apart from any other man, prophet, teacher, leader or hero.  smile

        1. 0
          Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          oh, yeah. good point. ha. What I meant was, growing up alot of emphasis was put on cross or not? And I always thought that was kinda beside the point.

          1. aka-dj profile image79
            aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I wasn't being smart, just making a clarifying point. The Bible says cross, and tree. So, I know what you're saying. I didn't know there was any kind of to-to about which term is correct. big_smile

            1. 0
              Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              smile I was genuinely saying good point. I don't think there is a real "to-do", but I only figured that out as a grown up.

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend aka-dj

          Jesus never resurrected from the physical dead; as he was delivered from the Cross in the near-dead position. His trusted friends knew it; that is why he was not given a customary funeral bath and nobody offered his funeral service.

          I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  12. thisisoli profile image66
    thisisoliposted 6 years ago

    Rather than being put on the cross maybe he should have been thrown to the sodomites instead, since thats where he told many fathers to throw their daughters to welcome him and God instead.

    1. aka-dj profile image79
      aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      hmm  What? hmm

    2. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What? Where do you get this?

  13. thisisoli profile image66
    thisisoliposted 6 years ago

    The Bible, I read it again while I was laid up in hospital tongue

    1. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah..right !!!

      1. thisisoli profile image66
        thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I was meant to be discharged same day as teh operation, but I bled out quite a lot in recovery, had to stick around for a while, and hadn't brought any reading material of my own!

        1. 0
          pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So cite the chapter and verse that gave you this idea

  14. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    the Romans used stakes not crosses . i saw that on history channel t

  15. aguasilver profile image88
    aguasilverposted 6 years ago

    However Christ was killed, he rose again and lives with us now, so what's the difference how He died?

    He was innocent and therefore had no cause or reason to die, nobody else has ever had that situation, that's what made Him unique and the ONLY way for us sinners to get in to the Fathers love.

  16. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Cool.
    I caught the reference to water;  was just verifying.
    Drat--I have no idea what colloidal silver even is.  But very interesting;  thanks for the reply!

  17. waynet profile image47
    waynetposted 6 years ago

    He died giving out easter eggs.....poor guy, next time get a license to sell easter eggs!

  18. aguasilver profile image88
    aguasilverposted 6 years ago

    Not in Spain... agua!

    1. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry..

  19. IntimatEvolution profile image82
    IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago

    Promises...

  20. Onusonus profile image89
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    Since the day that God delivered the children of Israel from the bondage of Pharaoh in the days of Moses, they were commanded to make sacrifices of unblemished lambs on the day of passover in rememberance of their God who parted the seas and delivered them from captivity. This animal sacrifice was in similitude of the sacrifice of the only begotten Son of God who would deliver the world from the bondage of sin and death.

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Onusonus

      This is all mythical. Would you kill your son or daughter for the sins of the passerbyes in the street? Why should God the Father set and example of highest cruelty of killing His innocent son for the sins of others?

      Paul and Church created this myth only for their own selfish motives. It has got nothing to do with Jesus or the Creator - God Allah YHWH or the forgiveness of sins of the human beings. Church propogates killing of the innocents and cruelty in the name of atonement of sins.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      1. Antecessor profile image81
        Antecessorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "This is all mythical. Would you kill your son or daughter for the sins of the passerbyes in the street? Why should God the Father set and example of highest cruelty of killing His innocent son for the sins of others"

        I absolutely agree paarsurrey.

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Antecessor

          I appreciate your agreeing with me.

          Thanks and regards

      2. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        God didn't kill his son..people did...

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If you was a God, would you let people kill your son to prove a point? I wouldn't, guess I am more logical than God. lol

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend marinealways24

            I agree with you; God won't allow people to succeed in killing Jesus, one of His loved ones',one of His Chosen Ones', a Messenger and Prophet .

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          2. mohitmisra profile image61
            mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            All prophets must die as well.

            They are messenger who are here to deliver a message from god and then go back home to god.

            1. 68
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend

              Very truly

              Thanks

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Deborah Sexton

          Jesus was not killed on the Cross; it was not so desighned by the Creator- God Allah YHWH; hence people failed to kill Jesus on the Cross. This is what I am proving.

          It was neither desighned by God Allah YHWH; nor people could kill Jesus to prove him a false Messenger Prophet.It Just did not happen.

          I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      3. Davidsonofjesie profile image60
        Davidsonofjesieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        how can you say you love JESUS and not do his will

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Davidsonofjesie

          Please elaborate.

          Thanks

      4. 0
        pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Friend paarsurrey

        Again I agree with you that 'Paul and Church created this myth only for their own selfish motives'

        But how is the Muslim religion different? how is Allah different from other Gods?

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend pburger

          It is Quran/Islam/Muhammad who have defined the Creator- God Allah YHWH elaborately; others could not do it as their scriptures and religions are dead, I mean their scriptures are not in the original form they were revealed; hence their confusion. All living teachings of all other revealed religions have been, therefore, included in Quran, in a way to protect them; this is what has been mentioned in Quran very expressively.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend pburger

          Thanks for agreeing with me.

          Regards

        3. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend pburger

          The Creator is manifest by His attributes; different nations have different names of the same Creator-God; Allah YHWH Ahura Mazda and many more are his names. Islam did not invent the name Allah; it was in use in Arab before Islam.

          Islam's contribution or peculiarity is explaining attributes of the Creator- God Allah YHWH in much detail. In fact the whole Quran is based on explaining the attributes of the Creator-God Allah YHWH.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  21. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    looking at the death of our flesh from his prospective is a totaly diffrent thing than looking at it from ours.
       For God to allow Jesus to die is to bring him home.
       The life as a catipilar must end for the butterfly to emerge.
       I do not think that our consciousncess is the product of the flesh, but the other way around.

    1. Antecessor profile image81
      Antecessorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      FALLACY ALERT JERAMI!!!

      "I do not think that our consciousncess is the product of the flesh, but the other way around."

      Evidence?

      Does the property fluidity of water cause the existence of the water molecules?

      How can a property, which by its very terminology must belong, be the cause of that which it is a property of?

      Consciousness is a property of humans and their bodys, therefore it cannot cause those bodys. To say it does is illogical.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It takes conscious cells to make a conscious body and mind.

        1. Antecessor profile image81
          Antecessorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cells are not conscious,(by themselves) if you believe they are then give evidence and describe how.

          Water molecules are not fluid by themselves, not until they are combined with other water moles do they take on the property of fluidness. I thought I already explained this. Fluidity is the emergent property of many water moles under the local laws of physics. Fluidity comes from non-fluid particles.

          Consciousness is the emergent property of non-conscious neurons (organic logic gates), which when combined result in conciousness. Thats consciousness from the non-conscious.

          Really this is basic logic and I shouldnt have to explain this to someone of intelligence.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Cells, have memory, defenses, communication which are all impossible without consciousness.
            Consciousness is impossible with unconscious neurons. Explain how you have faith that unconscious neurons design conscious thoughts and actions. They are combined through conscious communication. lol, Your logic is flawed and partially unconscious. You use more faith than logic. Raise your consciousness before you lecture on intelligence instead of stating things that are illogical.

            1. Antecessor profile image81
              Antecessorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              FALLACY OF ASSUMPTION.
              FALLACY OF INCREDULALITY.
              FALLACY OF STRAWMAN.

              "Cells, have memory, defenses, communication which are all impossible without consciousness."

              You assume, how do you know memory, defenses, communication are all impossible without consciousness.
              What about computers, they have all these propertys.


              "Explain how you have faith that unconscious neurons design conscious thoughts and actions"- M
              This is a strawman, and you know it.

              Do you "have faith" that non-fluid water moles "design" the property of fluidness?

              Of course not!
              That wouldnt make sense.
              No teleology (design implies teleology) is required, fluidity is the natural result of the water moles obeying the laws of physics.

              Think a little more, respond a little slower, and maybe your comments wont be so much non-sense. LOLOLOL

              In the same way that non-fluid water moles give rise to fluidity, so to do non-conscious neurons give rise to consciousness. No teleology (design implies teleology) is required, consiousness is the natural result of cells obeying the laws of physics. How many times do I have to repeat myself. Do you need me to spell out the big words or something?

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                lol Now you are getting worked up, thats the spirit. Why are you so emotional, not very logical. lol
                Did computers design themselves or did conscious minds design them?
                I think you are obsessed with this straw man character, maybe you should stop smoking the straw. big_smile
                Are you obsessed with water also?
                I don't think water molecules have consciousness such as cells, but you seem to have faith that they do. What is waters defense, communication, and memory?
                Consciousness is the result of conscious cells designing your conscious mind or lack of.

  22. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    Ante, I think you are getting so worked up because you have faith that cells having a level of consciousness is impossible, while you have little to no explanations. And you claim to be logical. lol

    1. Antecessor profile image81
      Antecessorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Straw man fallacys are the missrepresentation of an opponents position, generally done because the arguer recognises that the opponents logics is unassailable. You can once more committed this fallacy "I don't think water molecules have consciousness such as cells, but you seem to have faith that they do. What is waters defense, communication, and memory?"
      Since I have never claimed any of these things, and these are not my position, then this is a strawman set up for you to attack. Thank you for thereby recognising that my argument is correct and that you are unable to attack it directly.

      I think I have adequately explained that propertys such as fluidity and consciousness can come about from things that lack those propertys.

      As for not believing you when you say that cells are conscious, well if you can tell me how they are conscious, and explain to me exactly what consciousness is (how do you know what it is), then I would consider the possibility.

      Despite whether cells are conscious, the atoms that make cells up are not also conscious, or do you believe that too? So even were cells conscious, consciousness would still be a property of non-conscious matter.

      As for computers, you claim that "Cells, have memory, defenses, communication which are all impossible without consciousness."
      I showed that computers have all these things and yet are not considered conscious. This disproved this specific statement by you, nothing more, nothing less. So when you said "Did computers design themselves or did conscious minds design them" you once again missrepresented my position, thereby admitting its validity.

      Clay retains a memory of anything that comes into contact with it, in the form of an inprint, would you say that clay is also conscious?

  23. Onusonus profile image89
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    God being perfectly just and honorable, and unwilling to abide the presence of evil, has given to the universe the promise that mankind will be given the opportunity to return to him and live in his presence. With our return however we stand imperfect, and therefore by the laws of justice, are unable to remain in his presence.
    It is the mediation of Jesus Christ who died in the most complete and senseless way, who was honored by all of creation as the only being to live on Earth without committing a single sin.
    It is his mercy that God and the universe cannot deny, because of his perfect sacrifice. Therefore it is through his mercy and mediation, that we are able to stand in the presence of God.
    Unequivocally, It is through his mercy that the laws of justice are satisfied, and that mercy has to be honored otherwise God would cease to be God and all would be lost.
    For this reason the will of Christ, the Messiah, the deliverer, Jesus the son of God has to be honored by all of the intelligences of creation thus fufilling his roll as the deliverer and savior of mankind as prophecied by all of the ancient prophets of God.

    1. Antecessor profile image81
      Antecessorposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well given your name, I guess you know the onus is on you to prove that mouthfull of a claim, onusonus?

      The fallacy of demanding negative proof is a fallacious inversion of the burden of proof principle that the individual making the ontologically positive claim bears an initial burden of proof. As has been said, the ontologically positive claim must first be substantiated with evidence and argument before the burden of proof shifts to the ontologically negative side. The falacy of demanding negative proof initially places this burden on the ontologically negative side. In other words, X (an ontologically positive claim) is not proven simply because "not X" cannot be proven.

      A popular form of the fallacy is the argument from ignorance.

      Since the fallacy of demanding negative proof depends on how the burden of proof is allotted, it works best in the absence of other factors which affect that burden. For instance, an objector might effetely wield the fallacy of demanding negative proof in the face of one presenting a new scientific theory. However, when other factors create a burden asymmetry, the fallacy loses much of its force, such as when conventional or community wisdom is strong. So, a burden of negative proof might be appropriate when there already exists strong community wisdom on the subject.

      Lastly, the fallacy of requiring negative proof does not apply to an ontologically negative claim. In other words, one is justified in making an ontologically negative claim and then requiring proof of the opposite. For example, it would be a fallacy of requiring negative proof to say, "A chair sits beside me; prove me wrong." On the other hand, it would not be fallacy to exclaim, "No chair sits beside me; prove me wrong."

      1. Onusonus profile image89
        Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Also in a court of law one of the deciding factors of determining which side of the story is true, is based on eye witness accounts. In such a case of Jesus's sacrifice we have specifically the twelve men who testified to his birth, death, and resurection, which is more than enough people to sway the courts decision on who is telling the truth.

        W have the twelve whitnesses,  Peter, Andrew, James the Greater, James the Lesser, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, Thaddeus, Simon,  and Matthias who all claimed to have seen it first hand, and made a non-wavering declaration even to their dying days. as opposed to one Mohommed who made a conflicting claim hundreds of years later.

        1. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Onusonus

          None of the above persons was a first hand eye-witness of the even of Crucifixion of Jesus. Matthew himself have mentioned that all the so called "disciples of Jesus" had fled away and deserted Jesus. Why to blieve in their hearsay when they were not faithul to Jesus?

          I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. Onusonus profile image89
            Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Actually none of them were with him when he was given to the Pharasees for a trial. But they were present to see him hanging on the cross, they were given his body and buried it in the tomb, and then saw him risen after the third day thus fufilling the many, many, many prophecies concerning his life.

            1. 68
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend Onusonus

              None of the twelve you mentioned in your post were present at the scene of the Crucifixion of Jesus. Joseph Armethia and Nicodemus are only mentioned to have taken the injured body of Jesus from the Roman Officials and took him hurriedly to the spacious and airy tomb lest Jesus gets suffocated or succumbs to his wounds. One could now see the tomb on the internet by accessing:

              http://www.sacred-destinations.com/isra … arden-tomb

              Please quote the verses for your claims and reasons.

              I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

              1. Onusonus profile image89
                Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I'll start off with Luke 23:49 "and all of his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Gaile, stood afar off, beholding these things."
                also read John19:25

                1. 68
                  paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi friend Onusonus

                  Luke was not a disciple of Jesus; and he was not there at the scene of Crucifixion of Jesus. He must have spoken from hearsay.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke

                  Although the Gospel of Luke was written anonymously, the most likely candidate for the authorship of Luke-Acts is Luke the physician and sometime companion of Paul.[17] Yet scholars are evenly divided on the historicity of attributing this gospel to Luke.

                  The Gospel of Luke is a secondary source based on earlier accounts of the life of Jesus.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke


                  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

                  Thanks

                  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                  1. Onusonus profile image89
                    Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually he was an apostle of Jesus as he testified of the divinity of Christ. and though he may have not been at the scene, the Holy Spirit bore the truth to him. Not only this but there is that looming possibility that the Apostles corrisponded with eachother as they were the ones that Jesus ordained to spread his gosple to the world. The fact is that the things the world knows about Christ come from his apostles and their writings. otherwise they are revealed to us by prophets through the whitness of the Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of truth. This is how we know that a Prophet is truely sent from God because they will not condradict one another as Mohamed did by denying that Jesus is the son of God, the mediator and advocate with the father. The entire new testament is the fufillment of the Old. The covenants made between God and the seed of Abraham all the way up untill this last and final dispensation of the Earth.

              2. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You keep repeating this over and over, almost as if it was learned by rote. wink

                1. 68
                  paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi friend Beelzedad

                  I want that everyone should love Jesus and Mary, one of the perfect men and women, whom even the Creator- God Allah YHWH loved.

                  There life account have been mentioned very truthfully.

                  Thanks

                  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                  1. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Perhaps, but what you want for everyone and what everyone else wants for themselves may be two completely different things, did you ever stop to think about that?

                2. 0
                  pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I value freedom of speech and can only say 'Paarsurrey has a signature line - so what?"

                  My signature thought is 'Viva la difference!'

                  Viva la difference! smile

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    How incredibly odd then that all your arguments and statements promote the exact opposite.

                    Vive La Meme!

  24. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Teri,
    I dunno.
    I heard someone suggest that that particular one might be a bot.

    I got tickled at "its" repetitive lines.
    But then later at its hogwash!  ahaha

    There are always some people hiding behind screen names and anonymity....

  25. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Thanks Beelzedad; you explained it better!

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My pleasure, Brenda.  smile

  26. Lynda Gary profile image59
    Lynda Garyposted 6 years ago

    I didn't see mention of this yet, and I'm joining the conversation a bit late, but want to add some "science" (not stating my personal beliefs, which I keep to myself in the forums; just pointing out what the science reports, and a few irrefutable facts)

    FACTS
    Historically, when a person was condemned to die on the cross, their death is actually caused by SUFFOCATION.  They literally suffocate till dead.  It typically took 2-3 days for this to happen.

    Also at that time in history, when a physician performed a surgical procedure, they used some kind of a chemical (I can't remember what and don't feel like researching) that was soaked into a sponge. The sponge was then placed over the nose and mouth.  This induced a deep sleep state so that surgery or other painful procedures could be conducted.

    A human body stops bleeding when the body is dead.

    SCIENCE & CONCLUSIONS DRAWN THEREFROM
    As reported in the bible, Jesus died within only a few hours.  If he was truly dead, it was not from suffocation. So, what was it from?

    As reported in the bible, a soldier placed a sponge upon the tip of a spear and held it up to Jesus' mouth.  Hmmm.  At that time, there was only one known reason to use the sponge like this.  Providing water to a dying prisoner would've resulted in the guard's own death by crucifixion.

    As reported in the bible, a guard stuck a spear into the lower side of Jesus.  As depicted in ALL historical drawings and art work, that wound is bleeding.  The bible refers to the bleeding from the wound.  He was stuck with the spear, it is reported, to "make sure" he was dead.  The dead do not bleed.

    The spearing happened shortly after the sponge.

    Is it not possible that Jesus' followers conspired to make it look like he was dead?  Would this not explain why, generations later, the discovery of an entire family of those little stone boxes into which bones were placed for burial -- a family with the same names of the relatives of Jesus?  (A study was done to determine the probability that it was Jesus' actual family, based on the recurrence of names, etc.  According to the study, in all likelihood, this was Jesus' family, including Jesus, who supposedly died and resurrected many years before.)

    Okay ... enough.  I could post more facts and science to support the above theory, but I have work to do. LOL

    1. brotheryochanan profile image60
      brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      -----------------blood and water came out------------------------
      i used to work at a slaughterhouse and the dead cows were hung upside down and their throats slit to drain the blood, the blood flows in a rivulet it doesn't pulse. The spear in the side of jesus drained the local blood but it was not a bleeding as such from a beating heart.
      "John 19:34   But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water". The original transcripts verify this saying exactly.. both water and blood came out.
                                -----------the offerings of the fluid------------------- 
      there were two offerings of fluid upon the hyssop:
      "Matthew 27:34   They gave him vinegar (as below) to drink mingled with gall (myrrh): and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink". 
      "Mark 15:23   And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not. " 
      this is the sophomoric or pain killer that would dullen his senses but at this stage jesus wanted to be mentally alert so he refused.  G5521
      http://ww2.netnitco.net/~legend01/myrrh.htm
      "Until the invention of morphine and other modern painkillers, myrrh was a common analgesic. In ancient times it was often mixed with wine to make the drink more potent (Clarke's Commentary - Prov 9:4-5). As was the custom among the Jews, Christ was offered "wine mingled with myrrh" to ease the pains of the cross. However, He refused to drink it.
      "Mark 15:36""Matthew 27:48"
           John 19:28   After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
           John 19:29   Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
           John 19:30   When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
      1) vinegar:   a mixture of sour wine or vinegar and water which the Roman soldiers were accustomed to drink for refreshment.  G3690
      Two different fluids, one accepted, one not accepted.

              ---------Christ gives up the ghost and dies voluntarily-----------
      Jesus gave up his spirit, he did not die, He was god he could have hung there for 2000 yrs and lived.
        Mark 15:37   And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
        Mark 15:39   And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
           Luke 23:46   And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
           John 19:30   When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

      The timing was imperative that jesus be buried before the sabbath day which started at sunset 6ish pm Saturday the evening of his crucifixion . The third hour was 9am friday (3hrs after sunrise) the 6th hour was noon friday, christ hung there till 3pm friday... 3 hrs before sunset the start of the hebrew sabbath day, saturday. He still had to be prepared to be buried with cloths and perfumes etc and be in the tomb which they didn't have yet and needed to be arranged.. so christ did not have 3 days to hang around and wait till he died naturally, He GAVE UP his spirit.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How entertaining. So - the Jews did not kill him after all. He voluntarily died and did not suffer in any way shape or form. He could have lived there forever.

        Not much of a sacrifice then.

        No wonder your religion makes no sense and Kristians are a bunch of adulterous, law-breaking hypocrites. There was no sacrifice. Jeebus voluntarily died and made no sacrifice.

        Big deal. sad

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol lol lol

          And anyway, what does it matter ?
          I don't see any change about sins, nor after, nor before .  lol

          1. 0
            zampanoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi tantrum.
            I definitely love that avatar of yours.
            Like your faces too.

            Someone takes the risk of becoming hypocrit as soon as he starts giving moral lessons to others.

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi there !
              This religion forum is getting bored!
              I am thinking of founding a new religion lol

              1. 0
                zampanoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I agree.
                But please ! Not as much S&M as the others.
                Ok ?

              2. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Can I be the guy who has the shift of responsibility transferred to him when anything bad or evil happens?

                No, not the big kahuna, the other guy. wink

                1. tantrum profile image60
                  tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  No, you can't.
                  You're not weird enough  big_smile

                  1. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    It's the red nose and the huge smile, isn't it?

          2. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend tantrum

            You are very right; there is no relationship between sins of a person and Jesus dieing for it.

            I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And the Machine goes on and on and on ... lol

        2. 68
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friends

          What a voluntary death!!!!!???

          Was it a suicide?

          If it was a suicide; where is the price of the mythical sins?

          The facti is that Jesus did not die on the Cross; he survived death. The Creator-God Allah YHWH helped him save a death on the cross which would have made him a false prophet as per Torah.

          God Allah YHWH helped him save his life against all odds.

          I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    2. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Lynda Gary

      I agree with you. The dead do not bleed; bleeding is a sign of life; not a sign of death.

      Pilate was not agree from his heart to crucify Jesus; to show this he washed his hands off .

      If we look into the Bible intently, we could see that Jesus' followers conspired with Roman officials to make it look like he was dead; though he was not dead but near-dead?

      Thanks

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  27. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    there are ghosts in the machine. hi tantrum

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Or Miami Sound LOL!

  28. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    tantrum    building a better idea of god is my idea. mines under construction as we speak. thing is tho its  a studio apartment. a really frigging big one . but still only room for one believer. and  i hold the lifetime lease.  that's almost poetry.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      big_smile
      Poetry indeed !
      I like the way it sounds!

  29. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    Coming to the topic:

    Jesus did not die on the Cross; he never resurrected; he migrated from Judea; people made the myth that he has gone to the skies.

    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  30. Lynda Gary profile image59
    Lynda Garyposted 6 years ago

    "giving up the ghost" refers to the spirit within all of us.  The body dies but the spirit goes on.  Where it "goes" is a matter for debate, but this is what happens to ALL of us when we "pass on" (hence, the term "pass on."  Our spirit passes on to somewhere else.

    The books from which the above scripture is quoted were written decades after the fact.  Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John all contradict one another, too, when it comes to "the story."

    I fully believe that Jesus lived, that he was a disciple of God, and that he preached a damn good message.  But I also believe in science, facts, and I do not overlook what we know about human behavior.  To deny science, sociology, psychology, and all the other academics is just ludicrous.

    1. 0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      hey, i resemble that 'ludicrous' remark. jeje.
      actually, am a zealot heretic. big_smile

      I don't deny science or religion, just think both are the same.
      The Ism, duality -one classic one romantic. Even quality, which is a sort of reuniting.

      big_smile

  31. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    "giving up the ghost"

    Hi friend Lynda Gary

    I agree with you.

    As one could see the words "giving up the ghost" are not the words of Jesus; these are the words of a story teller. This might be his opinion. Since the story was written much later; the story writer here added his own opinion or his blind faith. In fact, this could mean that Jesus went into unconsciousness.
    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That's the same with Islam, it was written after Muhammad's death by those who added their own opinions and used blind faith.  smile

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend

        Quran descended on the heart of Muhammad verbally bit by bit; it was a verbal Revelation as the Word Quran means. It was learnt by heart by Muhammad and his followers. The Revelation of Quran continued till the last year on Muhammad; when the whole Quran was repeated two time. It was all complete in Muhammad's own life.This verbal memorization is continued to our own times irrespective it is written or not.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Islam was invented by Muhammad, he was a murderer and despot. You have rejected the truth.

          1. 68
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend

            It is only your opinion. You could not provide a valid reference. I don’t mind; there is no compulsion whatsoever.

            Have a nice day.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              It is the truth and you have rejected the truth. You are skeptical and should believe in the natural. Why are you skeptical and reject the truth?  smile

              1. 0
                pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The truth according to what source? According to whom?

  32. Hokey profile image60
    Hokeyposted 6 years ago

    He's really not dead!!!1  I found him!!!!


    http://no2evangelism.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/2005_04_14jesus1.jpg

  33. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    From Galilee along with Mary; Jesus went to India where the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel resided as mentioned by Jesus.

    Matthew 15:24   
    And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep that are lost of the house of Israel.

    http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=2&q … &b=drb

    In Afghanistan, Kashmir, India people of the House of Israel resided.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And so ?
      You still with your fairy tales ? LOL

      About sheep and shepherds
      Who wants to be a sheep ?
      Craziness !

    2. Onusonus profile image89
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Actually he went to America after he was resurected.wink

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How interesting !
        So that's why America is the way it is !

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Ms. "T"  just wanted to say  HAY.

               " HAY"

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi there Jerami ! Nice 2 C U !
            Happy Easter !

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And happy  chocolate  to you too.

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                big_smile

      2. 0
        pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why would he go to the USA?

  34. Jane@CM profile image59
    Jane@CMposted 6 years ago

    I suppose this means the Easter Bunny doesn't exist either - waaaaaa!

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sure he does...  He fills up baskets at Wallgreens every night and they make um avaliable for $9.95.

         On a serious note, we have taken everything out of context and can find realy good excuses anywhere we look for any behaveior that we want to be behavin in.

  35. 0
    Will Bensonposted 6 years ago

    Jesus is dead.

    Muhammad is dead.

    I'm not feeling too well myself.

    1. Jewels profile image81
      Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Have a chocolate egg, you'll feel better. smile

      Oh, and stay away from those wooden crosses.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Have two easter eggs, three hail marries,  four excuses of your choice and a partridge in a pear tree.
           And if ya don't feel better by mornin take two asprins.

      2. 0
        Will Bensonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It's wooden? I thought it was chocolate.smile

      3. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I forgot to say    "HAY"  Jewels

        1. Jewels profile image81
          Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hay Jerami, good to see you.

          A chocolate cross, now that would be good to see.  You'd slip right off it.  Sounds kinda sensual, sorta?

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            That word sensual and chocholate in the same sentence gives me goose bumps.

            1. Jewels profile image81
              Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              smile

  36. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 6 years ago

    I'm cross !  mad

  37. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Will Benson wrote:

    Jesus is dead.

    Muhammad is dead.

    I'm not feeling too well myself

    Paarsurrey says:

    It is not clear what you want to convey. Please elaborate further.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  38. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I was watching a program on TV last night about the schroud of Turan. There is no proof as to who was wraped in it. But there is enough documentation to indicate that it might have been the schroud that Jesus was wraped in.
       The intresting thing about it is that it can not be duplicated.
       Science can not duplicate the procedure that must have created this image on the scrroud.
      To me this is enough proof of the resurrection.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Lets face it Jerami - a dog turd is enough proof for you.

      Not even sure why you people bother posting this nonsense. It "might have been" therefore that is enough proof that the impossible happened for me.

      LOLOLO

      You guys are so desperate. First of all - it is actually "Turin".

      Have you even seen this thing? Are you aware that there are several replicated versions

      http://news.discovery.com/history/shrou … plica.html

      And it has been independently dated - with the approval of the Bishop of Turin - at around AD 1262 - 1384.

      http://www.shroud.com/nature.htm

      But - that is good enough "proof" to support your ridiculius beliefe.

      Good for you.

      So - now I have provided evidence that it is possible to replicate it - and it has been dated well after Christ (1300 years or so) - and have destroyed your "proof".

      What do you believe now?

      Let me guess......... lol

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I am sure that you have already heard all of the arguements to this scientific study.  but anyway ...

           It is my understanding that ...The pixels paterns would not have been produced by reproducing an image on a piece of linnen as suggested in the experiment.
           The piece of linnen that the carbondating was performed on was taken from an area that had been repaired (patched in) due to fire dammage around the 14th century.
         
           There are no claims that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Either side of the arguement can conclude as they wish.

           Another test needs to be performed.

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think the whole thing needs to be taken from a Gods-eye view. In other words, let's step back and get some larger perspective...

          Why would God send you and everybody else on some wild goose Easter Egg Hunt/Chase just to suss out the truth of his revelation.

          Makes no sense.

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I don't think that God did... 
               It was mankind that turned it all into a shell game.
               We see it in Congress all of the time.
               When one person brings up a point of intrest that should recieve immediate attention, This may not be to someone elses best interest so everyone on that side of the issue starts chanting so loudley that the first person can not be heard.

              something like that anyway.
              And it never hurts to introduce 100's of diffrent non related opinions further silencing the first issue.
               Works every time.

            1. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
              AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I'd say Christians took a wrong turn trying to convince people using "historical evidence". Either Jesus Christ is the Deity or he isn't. I don't see what difference it makes whether some Gospel writers got some stuff wrong or not, or whether some shroud is legit or not... This would be a weird way for God to go about things... relying on people's ability to figure out historical-critical, source-critical, and artefactual evidence...

              To be honest, I think of a lot of Christians are secretly just history buffs who relish the excuse to talk and think about history.

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yea you might be right.. 
                But then it may have started when somebody asked.
                "Why do you believe what you do"
                or  they said that we are stupid for believing diffrently than them.
                   For Believers I think it all started when Religiousity started telling too many diffrent versions of what is TRUTH.

                   I want to what I believe and why.
                   Which of the 100s of versions is true?
                   There must be a truth ????  somewhere ???
                   I would like to recognize it if I get to see it.

                1. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
                  AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Here's the truth. Ready...

                  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The rest is just a distraction

                  1. DevLin profile image60
                    DevLinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    The ultimate truth

        2. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Dear me.

          No - it has been proven conclusively that it is older than your imaginary friend. Four independent tests and the Bishop of Turin agree that, "The results of radiocarbon measurements at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich yield a calibrated calendar age range with at least 95% confidence for the linen of the Shroud of Turin of AD 1260 - 1390 (rounded down/up to nearest 10 yr).  These results therefore provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is mediaeval. "

          Plus -it has been proven to be replicated and teh Katholiks make no claim of anything - unlike you - have you actually seen this shroud?

          But - causing confusion and conflict by lying and using semantics to dodge the facts is far, far more important to you than anything else. And - once again - I thank you for opening my eyes to this indisputable fact. Your religion is more concerned with spreading its hatred than anything else. Thank you for teaching me that there is no god and the jesus myth is a lie.

    2. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Jerami

      Even if the shroud of Turin is genuine; it is not a proof of resurrection of Jesus; rather it is a proof of the person who was wrapped in it; that he did not die on the Cross. He survived death in the first place so there is no question of his resurrection. If people did not see him roaming in Judea; he was preparing for migration. When he was prepared for that alongwith Mary and other trutsed friends he set off to India.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The Turin Shroud, The Qur'an, and The Bible are all roughly equal in terms of valid sources... ie., they all "suggest" their own reliability, I mean, they all "seem" reliable, but there is no more reason to believe them than Caesar's account of conquering Britain.

        In other words, to believe in the Muslim interpretation of Jesus' life, whether based on Hadiths, The Qur'an, or The Gospels themselves, is roughly the same as believing in the Turin Shroud... why do you believe one over the other?

      2. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ... yeah.. where he obviously set up a samosa stand and became a cricket star..

        riiiight

  39. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    That is true .. But?  what if I'm a Maschoist ??
      Sorry  just thought I'd leave on the funny side.
      Gotta go do some stuff.

  40. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friend AdsenseStrategies wrote:

    In other words, to believe in the Muslim interpretation of Jesus' life, whether based on Hadiths, The Qur'an, or The Gospels themselves, is roughly the same as believing in the Turin Shroud... why do you believe one over the other?

    Paarsurrey says:

    Muslims don't own Shroud of Turin; it has all along in the custody of "Christians".

    We believe in the Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH and all other reasonable and sensible sources of finding Truth.

    Jesus did not die a cursed death on cross he died  a natural and peaceful deatho in India.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You did not understand Usmanali.

      "Reasonable" and "sensible" does not apply to your beliefs.. The words you seek are "irrational" and "ridiculous".

      Thank you Usmanali for listening to the Truth.

      Peaceful, rational atheist here.

    2. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      OK, let's reword this. The Turin Shroud is counted as valid evidence based on what? The Gospels are counted as valid evidence based on what? Faith...ultimately.

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend

        What is harm in faith if based on reason and Revelation? Both are like two legs one walks with or like two eyes with whom one sees more clearly without contradiction.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image71
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That's one-legged. Reason, yes. An all-compassionate, all-merciful all-powerful God who clearly intervenes in human affairs on occasion (as in Gabriel's appearance to Mohammed) would not allow the degree of suffering of the innocents we see in our world. It is NOT REASONABLE OR LOGICAL... It is quite literally a contradiction.

          As for Revelation, well, who is to say what is Revelation and what is not. God, if he exists in the form you claim, gave you a brain to think critically with. The very "gift" of that brain implies we are meant to use those criticial faculties... The critical faculties of a reasonable person would warn us to be skeptical of anyone who claims to "know" something has been revealed to them.

          1. 0
            pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Actually AdsenseStrategies,

            While I am not a religious person, I think you undermine your first point because you use logic to assert something is illogical...Where is the evidence to support your claim? And strictly speaking we have several different types of logic...

            As for revelation - Einstein based his theory of relativity on revelation; and he waited several years before other people managed to verify the theory. So the legend goes, Einstein sat on a bus and imagined what it would be like to travel on light beam...He then drew on mathematics to express the view he imagined...

            Viva la difference!

  41. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Your religion is more concerned with spreading its hatred than anything else.
    ===============================================

       If you see anything hateful in anything that I have said ???
    You have an active imagination.
       The piece of linnen that was cut from the shroud was dated to be medievel, correct.  It was later proven to be a combination of two materials indicating that a repair had been made and this area is what was tested. 
       
       As you say..Nothing has been proven conclusifely.
       And yes there are numerious ways in which an image can be put on linnen but not that was avaliable at the time that can replicate the apearance of the pixils.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Back pedaling. LOL

      So - your religion does not subscribe to the idea that Jesus died and was risen to save those that believe in him? LOLOL

      Pure hate mongering.

      Proved? LOLOLO Each lab got a different piece - and LOLOL this is just politicking to defend your irrational hate filled belief

      See - when you treat me like an idiot in this fashion - using absolutes that are no such thing - I get offended.

      And putting words in to my mouth when I said no such thing - well - Yes - that is offensive also.

      And yes - I did add a link to a group that had replicated the shroud using techniques available in the 1300s.

      Still - it is far more important that you do not back down - is it not? Like wot jeebus sed. lol Defend the faith against the unbelievers at all costs!

      I am sure interested to know why Jeebus was resurrected from the dead in your new Kristian religion though.

      Pray tell.

    2. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friends

      Let us suppose if the shrowd of Turin was genuinely the cloth wrapped on Jesus in the Gordon Tomb . How the image could have been formed on the cloth. Those who have been closely interested in the Shrowd may disclose for us.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Actually the Jeramy said part at the top of that post was not me...
          I'm bad ...  Computer inept also...  that was mark that said that and I responded.

  42. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    If you took it upon yourself to do so; ....
       you can  quote a dozen diffrent so called experts in any field, finding contradictions in their claims. 
       Thus proving that the entire field of study is flawed.
    Therefore unworthy for consideration??????

       You continue to state that "religion" is full of hate.
    You are correct.  The entire world inside and outside of religion is full of "Hate".
       We are all hypricrits..   We see in the world those things that we are made of.  But we tell ourselves that everyone else is ate up with it, while we are only slightly infected.

       Everybody is right and everybody is wrong.
      Anyone that says that they know very much ; "with all certainty" should be watched with all caution.

       And as far as back pedaling is concerned ?? 
    We recognize in others that which we are doing ourselves.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Awwwww. How sweet - still managed to avoid all my questions though. Very well done. Love the semantics - very, very good - nothing is proven etc therefore etc.......

      Have you seen this shroud that proves your faith? wink

      So - anyway - this is proof enough for you that the impossible happened?

      Never made any bones about it actually. I hate your religion and do not pretend to love you. I am all about attacking it. I think it is a bad thing. Am I wrong to attack a bad thing?

      Was I not clear?

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Your responce in this last post looks kinda like a copy and paste that you have for most all threads and posts that you make in the religion and beliefs forum.
            One size fits all. I think that you may have been hating religionists for too long. ???
           And if it makes you feel better ? 
           I don't LOVE you either.
          BUT.. I do respect your rights to hate everythAng if ya want to.
           In your zeal   You may not have noticed   I'm not much in favor of religiousity either.
           I just choose to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Denial - it's a wonderful thing - you are just convincing yourself that you have thrown out the bathwater yet have not- that is the problem with denying reality.

          So - what have we here?

          You avoid my questions
          You make blanket statements to support your ridiculous beliefs that you feel obliged to defend in the face of genuine facts to the contrary
          You deliberately lie about what I have said
          You judge me and presume to tell me what I am thinking
          You tell me you do not believe in religiosity, yet defend the bible and the  ludicrous notion that Jesus came back from the dead

          Sounds like you kept the bathwater to me. wink

          And I genuinely think your religion is evil and destined to continue to cause conflict. Therefore I am against it. Convince me otherwise.

          You arguing with me using semantics to defend your belief that the shroud of Turin - which I am now assuming you have never seen - proves your beliefs are valid and I am an idiot for suggesting that coming back from the dead is total garbage - is not doing anything to convince me. wink

      2. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Mark  I do not have a word of wisdom that will satisfy your thirst.
            I'm bad.....    I do not understand the .."all powerefl"
        I do know that I am not  "I AM" and leave it at that.   If there isn't anything greater than me ?????   We are all in for a lot of trouble cause if "I AM AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN"  iF THIS IS ALL THAT THERE IS????   you ARE IN A LOT OF TROUBLR

           SO ! TO ANSWER YOUT QUESTION ?...   ARE you AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN OR AM I   ??   
          The answer is.. NO ! .. somebody else is !

  43. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    AdsenseStrategies wrote:

    God, if he exists in the form you claim, gave you a brain to think critically with. The very "gift" of that brain implies we are meant to use those criticial faculties... The critical faculties of a reasonable person would warn us to be skeptical of anyone who claims to "know" something has been revealed to them.

    Paarsurrey says:

    Hi friend AdsenseStrategies

    A normal man, like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were; were not always critical; it is not a normal mode of a man. Man has to be a wholesome person; need not be always critical.

    To be Skeptic or to be always in doubt and confusion is an abnormality.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You may want to change your Taqiyaa tag line from time to time as it shows up as a blatant contradiction to the other contradictions you spout. wink

      1. 68
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Beelzedad

        It is just an expression of my faith in short; my identity. We have been persecuted for it in many places and are still being persecuted; I paid its price for being steadfast on it.

        You may also express your faith; I don't mind.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, it isn't, it is a tactic employed by a number of Islamic propagandists like yourself who scour the forums and do exactly what you're doing.



          That is a lie. Taqiyaa.  smile

  44. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    ovemychris writes:

    I saw something wild about that once too...
    A tv show...When Jesus was on the cross, and the Roman guard supposedly gave him vinegar to make him suffer, what he really gave him was Hysop...which was a plant that gave you the effect of being dead...it stopped your heart temporarily, but you were really still alive...kind of like the vodoo zombie thing they do with drugs or herbs....
    That's how they took him down but he was still alive.

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40177?page=3

    Paarsurrey says:

    Thanks you friend ovemychris

    Regards

  45. Mr Nice profile image68
    Mr Niceposted 6 years ago

    PLEASE DO NOT FIGHT ABOUT RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCES LOVE THE HUMANITY BECAUSE.........

    "To love another person is to see the face of God."  ~ Victor Hugo

    LIFE IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.....IT'S ALL ABOUT........

    "Where would man be today if it wasn't for women? In the Garden of Eden eating water melon and taking it easy." C Kennedy smilesmilebig_smile

  46. Pearldiver profile image87
    Pearldiverposted 6 years ago

    Well.......... BS or not where would we be without Hot-X Buns? lol

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ahhhh. No argument there. smile

      Hmmmmmmmmm, hot cross buns, arghhhhhhhhh

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol

  47. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Jesus did not die on the Cross

  48. errum fattah profile image61
    errum fattahposted 6 years ago

    oh look at these people parrsurrrey, they said jesus died on the cross and then they say jesus is God, jesus is alive, jesus is this jesus is that, they took uturn. does this make sence that first they say jesus is not dead and then they say jesus is dead. Brenda Durham is a sick sock, sick puppet.

    1. 68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend errum fattah

      Is it not weird that the Christians try to kill Jesus on the Cross like the Jews did.

      Where is their love for Jesus; they should be thankful to Muslims that we save Jesus a cursed killing on the Cross.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. errum fattah profile image61
        errum fattahposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        yae ofcourse we saved our lovely prophet jesus, v didnt wanted him to leave us, he will come again. and will protect us, then wat will be the reaction of christians and wat will be thier expressions?lol

  49. 68
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    coming to the topic "Jesus did not die on Cross"

  50. zzron profile image61
    zzronposted 6 years ago

    Mark 15:25 in the bible says he did die on the cross. I dont make the news, I just report it.

 
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