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Denial of the Creator is a made up delusion of the Skeptics

  1. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39536?page=2#post916969

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    "It is very natural, pro-evolution and pro-life to believe in the existing of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. Like we believe in our parents; we believe in God."

    Getitrite wrote:

    Sounds like you are manufacturing a "reality" to fit a delusion.

    Paarsurrey says:

    I am not creating any reality. Your parents were a reality; you would agree on this. Weren't they? One accepts one's parents very naturally without any questioning; because they love one so much, they care one so much, they provide one with taking great care; and of course it is very natural.

    The same way one believes one's Creator- God Allah YHWH; who set the evolution going and we were born into this world very naturally.

    I think it is the denial of the Creator; which is a made up delusion of the Skeptics.

    You may stick to your illusion however; no compulsion whatsoever.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. thisisoli profile image63
      thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think one accepts ones parents because they exist, this does not apply to any of the thousands of religious dieties.

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend thisisoli

        I only talk of the Creator- God Allah YHWH, not of the thousands deities. The believers of the thousands deities are as wrong as the Skeptics.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Then, you are wrong, too. smile

          1. Pandoras Box profile image81
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            yikes:

        2. thisisoli profile image63
          thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          how do you seperate your beliefs with those from the thousands of others who have just as little substantial proof.

          The existence of Parents does not prove an existence of God, Allah, or otherwise.

          1. 69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend

            I think the Creator and the created one and the parents have a strong relationship. The Creator started the chain and hence we came into being. Before being born we do not exist;after say a hunred years when we die; we won't exist. So ours is a temporary existence.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. DavitosanX profile image81
              DavitosanXposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You didn't even come close to rebating the argument, you just continued your preaching. People won't listen to you if you don't address their points, and address them with a logical foundation.

            2. fred allen profile image61
              fred allenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              That sounds so sad paarsurrey. If that were true, why not eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die? I know a resurected Savior who promised to bring me with Him into His kingdom. I have experienced His presence and seen His works. He is faithful to His word. Love is His war cry!

    2. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Would that be the same as Muslims denying Christianity and calling it a delusion?  wink

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi .....

        They are only mythical about Trinity and Jesus dieing on the Cross. It was not Jesus' teaching. I don't think there is any parallel.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Allah and the angel Gabriel are mythical, so yes, there is a parallel.  smile

          1. 69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi...

            You are again wrong. The angel Gabriel brings the Word of Revelation on the commandment of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; there is no doubt about it. Please don't be skeptical un-necessarily. What harm does angel Gabriel do to you people that you say he is a myth. The Creator- God Allah YHWH, sent Gabriel with a Word from him, a very systematic revelation called Quran. You must have seen a Quran; and perhaps read it also. Like the Universe have been created flawlessly by the Creator- God Allah YHWH, similarly Quran has been authored by Him flawlessly. You are mistaken; Gabriel is a reality created by the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

            What harm did Gabriel done to the skeptical that they deny him?

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. DavitosanX profile image81
              DavitosanXposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Believing in imaginary powers encourage people to relinquish control over their lives, and take on a very rigid code in which they base their existence. It demeans and even punishes free thinking and contrary beliefs.

              1. 0
                Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                define free thinking, especially, and those contrary beliefs, if you please.

                1. DavitosanX profile image81
                  DavitosanXposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Free thinking: To think outside any established school of thought; to reach one's own conclusions based purely on conjecture, experience and logic.

                  Contrary beliefs: (As if it weren't self explanatory) Beliefs that are contrary to an idea.

                  Examples:

                  Contrary belief: The angel Gabriel is a mythological creature. It doesn't exist and thus couldn't have appeared to Muhammad.

                  Free thinking: Muhammad concocted Islam as a way to unite the arabs and conquer Mecca.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    unless the experience was archetypal...one could have visions of Gabriel and it would be real to that person.


                    Did an angel speak to mohammed? not physically, but a counterpart in his consciousness may have appeared before him in a vision and through this vision he became motivated to share his understanding of the world. So in that respect, angel gabriel is real...albiet only in mohammed's mind.

                  2. 0
                    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Your defining of "free thinking" is just another "Garden Variety" Epicure, that holds no weight in actual logic.

                    These applied conditions render any conclusion as lacking, so long as those conditions -and method used to reach a conclusion- are entertained. Such conclusions ARE the base for all beliefs -accepted or dismissed- since all systems of man are beliefs.

                    Dismissing something as myth or assuming one's motives does not create a rational foundation to judge those events. If this were the case, then the Manticore should be sitting with a Dawkin's posse, smoking coke a cola joints in Atlantis...

                    This kind of 'free thinking only further negates the classic side of the Ism.

              2. 0
                crmhaskeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                It doesn't have to, the problem is human nature itself.  While there are most definitely exceptions, most people would prefer to have someone tell them what they should do, and believe - freedom FROM choice.  In a world of sheep and shepherds the sheep way out number the shepherds, which is what makes those shepherds so "dangerous," even when their intentions are for the "good."

                1. 0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  that is irrelevant given the terms of faith v. equation, yes?
                  Sheep cannot supersede the shepherd, no matter how they 'bah' from either side of the corral...

                  1. 0
                    crmhaskeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Which unless human nature changes itself, we are our own danger to ourselves.

                    faith v. equation doesn't need to exist at all .. religion and science are one and the same, they are both just belief systems - I wrote a hub on a similar topic, the Limitations of Thought wink

              3. fred allen profile image61
                fred allenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                It's so encouraging to see so many truth seeking souls in this forum. If truth is the primary goal I would hope that our hearts and minds are open to the possibility that it actually exists and can be found. Also that our particular viewpoint may need to change as a result. Defending what we believe can make for some spirited debate. Let's make sure we are truly open to the truth as we search for it.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Let me guess - you have the truth? lol

                2. 69
                  paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hi friend fred allen

                  I agree with you and I am ears to listen to others; if they could bring out the truth with reason, rationality and brilliant arguments.

                  Thanks

                  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    3. Cagsil profile image79
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Just because you claim a creator exists, doesn't necessarily make it truth. Even your rationale is off.

      To think that life on Earth was created by some singular creator is not quite factual.

      Thus, when you say it, it has less weight. You may think you are right, but what you think has holes in it, because of the skewed view you've formed from whatever religion you have followed.

      You are no different than the terrorists of the world, who claim their war is God's war too. It's ignorance on a grand scale.

      Too many people have no accountability for themselves, because they continue to pass the buck to a creator who doesn't exist in the first place.

      Sorry, I've walked the walk when it comes to religious doctrine, and had you- you would know what I know. Otherwise, I will continue to dismiss your so-called "creator". Learn the truth, before you spout your beliefs.

    4. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      pls define this god/allah thing you mention.
      Try to do it in other than opinion and conjecture form.

      Pls explain this to me.
      Why is it that when I ask a "believer" in this god/allah thing to define "it" for me in terms other than opinion and conjecture i.e. "Man" a 2 legged mammal which is warm blooded, suckles it's young, has a 4 chambered heart, has hair on its body etc., etc., they can't do it?
      Yet, many guide their lives, give their lives and adamantly defend their belief about it with naught but "guess and hope" as a foundation?
      I classify this as "insanity."

    5. 0
      cosetteposted 6 years ago in reply to this




      not necessarily. my parents were so whacked out i used to wonder if i was adopted...

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend cosette

        Even then you don't deny that they are your parents.

        Did you have a DNA test?

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. 0
          cosetteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          why would i need a DNA test? why not just blindly accept that they were my 'creators'? do you think we should give God a DNA test to prove himself? neutral

          it is in Man's nature to question when something doesn't seem correct. why would God make us so inquisitive but then get mad at us for questioning his exostence?


          p.s. i have my birth certificate, by the way smilewink

          1. 69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend

            There are some Skeptics here; perhaps they won't believe their parents without a DNA test.

            You are natural believer with reason; don't need even a birth certificate to know your parents.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    6. 0
      pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That's throwing the cat among the pigeons...

    7. Apostle Jack profile image60
      Apostle Jackposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Personal evidence reveal more than words and self opinions
      about the matter.Experience with God will delite all hear-say.

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Apostle Jack

        Please proceed with your argument.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    8. qwark profile image61
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Paar if you weren't so fanatically involved in the world of primitive, religious ignorance, I might be inclined to think you may be sane.
      No chance!

  2. TheRainDancer profile image60
    TheRainDancerposted 6 years ago

    The existence of anything lies within ones personal perceptions of mind, sight, emotion, etc.
        For some, parents do not exist. There are numerous cases of children abandoned at birth, who grow up in institutions or are adopted. In the case of adoption, these may accept their adoptive parents and revere them. There are also those who suffer at the hands of abusive parents. However, for thousands of years, belief in a higher power, a Creator of all living has prevailed and will continue to do so regardless of what skepticism arises. In fact, some skepticism only fuels the believers choice to hold on to the faith they have. If one does not believe that is their personal level of perception. But it will rarely if ever sway the perceptions of those who see life through the eyes of faith in God. For believers all situations are looked at differently and blame for humanities woes is not thrust upon the one people believe created them. They are likely to see the silver lining in every cloud, infer a lesson from every tragedy and hope for peace when faced with all adversity. Even great scientific or technological advances will be viewed from and related to their religious beliefs. If my belief in God is a "delusion" or an "illusion" to some, so be it. There isn't a greater one out there and skepticism will not deter me.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend TheRainDancer

      Welcome here.

      The orphan children don’t deny that they had parents. Even those children, who suffer at hands of their parents, won’t deny the existence of their parents.

      I agree with rest of your post.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    2. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Again, this is an example of creating a "reality" to fit a delusion.  No matter how eloquently you stated your position, I can assure you that your god is not real, and your thoughts are that of a fearful and deluded mind.  Delusion is ruthless to its victims!

  3. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    What you think and the facts are poles apart.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi ....

      I have brought the poles very near to one another; they are the players in our existence. They are not apart; only the skeptical thinking has made you look the poles apart.

      Have a nice day.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Deriding skepticism does not support your claims for a god. smile

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi...

          I know there are people who have only a negative thinking. They will not think positively and normally for nothing. Man was born with posetive thinking; only when he got degenerated; he was out of the balamcne, either he would believe in many deities or would deny a Divine altogether. The norm is that one should believe in one Creator- with the attributes that one sees daily reflecting in the Universe and even within ourselves.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  4. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    You have no proof for your creator blabber, still you persist on preaching. This is delusion and as you're not skeptical you can't see the flaws, i don't mind. Religious delusion made you think like this.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi ..

      Where are the flaws?

      You did not point out. Did you? It were imaginary.

      Thanks

  5. getitrite profile image81
    getitriteposted 6 years ago

    http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z173/xxxxlips_like_morphinexxxx/Icons/Delusion.jpg

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Saying something/someone is delusional means that you have proof "strong contradictory evidence". Without proof to the contrary, it is merely a theory that one believes.

      So if believing in God is a delusion, where is the proof that conclusively disproves God's existence?

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Mikel G Roberts

        You are very right there; they are the skeptical; they should show as to why one should not believe in the Creator. Do they have any evidence? None; so , why should they deny, for nothing?

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. 0
          pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Good day good friend paarsurrey

          Do they have any evidence? None; so , why should they deny, for nothing?
          Maybe that is so.
          But so far as I can ken, apart from logic, you no evidence for the existence of God...

          Therefore, for me, the solution is nihilism - a complete denial of all established authority and institutions

      2. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        which God?

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The one that me believing in causes me to be delusional. The one you can prove with absolute certainty to not exist.

        2. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend getitrite

          The Creator- God Allah YHWH; who created this flawless universe and also authoered flawless Quran.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. 0
            pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            My friend paarsurrey,

            With respect may I ask what you mean 'this flawless universe' - are people disfigured by war examples 'this flawless universe'?

            Cheers smile

          2. pisean282311 profile image57
            pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            that is ur version of things..why do u want everyone to adhere to what u believe...for u quran is flawless ,for someone else bible would be while for another both are ficition...so its ok..keep believing what u believe but why do u want others to believe as u urself do...

            1. 69
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend pisean282311

              A comparison will show it; no compulsion.

              Thanks

      3. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Come on dude. LOLOL Remember - just because you can't prove it - that doesn't make it true.

        Gawd you religionists are funny. Desperate but, soooo very funny. I see some of your fellow deluded people had a run in with the law.

        http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c … _michi.php

        But - according to your nonsense - you can't prove they were not doing God's work - so they should be released huh? lol

  6. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Flaw number one: you claimed existence of creator without any proof. Flaw number two: you made claims on creator with sweeping statements without backing it up with evidence. Do you see the flaws ? Ofcourse you don't cause you're religious and not skeptical. So any point we make is imaginary right ? I think you agree with me friend.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Flaw number 1: You claimed the non-existence of a creator without any proof.

      Flaw number 2: You made claims against a creator with sweeping statements, without backing it up with evidence.

      Don't you see the flaws?

      Of course you don't because you're religiously skeptical to the truth. Which causes you to dismiss facts that lean away from what you desire to be true.

      I for one do not agree with you.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Facts? LOLOL

        Oh yes. Sorry - I forgot you make up new meanings for words. What does "fact" mean then? big_smile

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi ....

      It was said, I think, that there were three flaws; when replying one has vanished in the thin air. I don't mind. Maybe in another half an hour they also vanish.

      You have to give the evidence of not believing. You see in the morning a risen sun in the sky; you believe in its existence very naturally. Don't you?

      I said it is very natural to believe in God; it doe not need any evidence. All realities are like this.

      Have a nice day.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  7. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Fine.

    Give me the empirical evidence for god's existence and i'm in your side simple. No need for logical fallacies or word twisting.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Today and usually when I am having discussions with skeptics, I am not trying to prove the existence of God. I am merely pointing out the Flaws in your logic.

      Saying, repeatedly, that there are flaws in mine does not prove your stance to be flawless...

      ...it comes down to a 50/50 chance everytime...  unless of course you have Proof?




      Got Proof?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you?

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          nope, and I have stated that many many many many  many times.

          Which is why I say it comes down to a 50/50 chance.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            So - no proof. OK

            So - you do believe in the God that wrote the Quran? Because you have no proof of your God - this could be the right one? 50% chance in fact. wink

            1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
              Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              [/i]

          2. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If it is a 50/50 chance as you say, why would you still chose one side and argue in its favor, shouldn't you actually remain neutral on the matter?  smile

            1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
              Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this
              1. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks, I found the answer right away.  smile

                "The belief that God exists gives me comfort."

            2. 0
              pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well said Beelzedad - nobody can 'prove' without a shadow of a doubt either side of the debate...

      2. skyfire profile image71
        skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is shifting burden of proof which i often see in forum, if you claim god exist then burden of proof is on you. When i say god doesn't exist proof lies in lack of empirical evidence. Give it to me and i'm done. So got proof this time ?

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          NO, the burden of proof is on you.

          You must provide evidence for anything you want to prove is true. Otherwise you must admit that the opposite view is possibly correct.


          Got Proof?

          {Again, I freely admit that it is possible that there is no God in existence. But until I have received concrete evidence proving that, I choose to believe that there is a God. http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-Mikel-believes-in-God }

          1. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            To clarify, that would also mean you are NOT trying to argue the existence of a god, nor are you even making a claim that a god exists, correct? You are absolutely 50/50 neutral in this matter?  smile

            1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
              Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this
              1. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Oh yes, I found that answer as well. 

                "My feelings tell me God exists, and I believe"

                You therefore can't claim that there is a 50/50 chance of a god existing when all you offer are your feelings of wanting to believe in a god as support.  smile

                1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
                  Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Beelzedad: "You therefore can't claim that there is a 50/50 chance of a god existing when all you offer are your feelings of wanting to believe in a god as support."

                  No actually I can.

                  Without proof either way there is an equal chance that either side of the issue is correct. That translates to a 50/50 chance either way.


                  Welcome.  tongue

                  1. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    What proof do you have, then?



                    Not according to the hub you linked for me to read, which indicated very little to no chance at all.  smile

            2. skyfire profile image71
              skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Weird but that possibility is view of agnostic/skeptics but he favors his theistic-belief by making agnostic statements and thinks that it's not logical-fallacy.

            3. 0
              pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              On the question of God - I'm absolutely neutral, and I have friends who believe in God and friends who do not believe in God...The world is full of different points of view - viva la difference

              1. 69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend pburger

                In other words you are confused. The Creator-God Allah YHWH exists and hence your being neutral is not correct; no compulsion however.

                Thanks

                I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          2. chatpilot profile image76
            chatpilotposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mikel the burden of proof is on the theist who is making the claim as an absolute truth that their god exists. I personally don't think the existence of god or gods could be proven or disproven to the satisfaction of all involved in the debate. But when I weigh the evidence I feel it leans more towards the non existence of god. The three religions of the book namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all off shoots of one another.

            They all claim divine inspiration by this fictional god, yet they are all chock full of flaws in various confirmed fields of study such as astronomy, biology etc. Many of the stories conflict with archeological findings and even secular historical records relevant to the times they were written in. The belief in god is entirely subjective and therefore does not qualify as a fact.

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi .....

      Many truthful persons from almost all the regions of the world and different times have testified their experiences of having conversations with the Creator- God Allah YHWH.These persons are called Messengers and Prophets of God. There is no  valid reason to falsify them. Such Prophets also received Word of revelation from Him; one such revelation is Quran; which is also authored by Him. Why should one reject them for nothing.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Other than to have millions of followers beckon your every command, no reason at all. wink



        Why should one accept them for nothing?

      2. 0
        pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Alas my friend paarsurrey

        You struggle against an implacable sense of reason. Without empiricial evidence you will continue to meet the trenchant single-minded rationale of the positivist mind that dominates the Western world...

        While I do not hold with any religious faith, I defend you right to hold, debate, and promote your beliefs

        Peace be with you, dear brave-heart...

      3. pisean282311 profile image57
        pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        who said that one rejects them for nothing?..those who reject them have their own set of criteria for rejecting them like you have your own for believing in them...

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend pisean282311

          They are welcome to elaborate their criteria if there is any. I don't think they have any good criteria with them. They would have brought out here if they had had one.They are welcome to do it. We are all ears to them.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. pisean282311 profile image57
            pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            r u sure my friend?..

            1. 69
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend pisean282311

              Why should you doubt it, my friend?

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

              1. pisean282311 profile image57
                pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                it is because there are three type of people in the world..one who dont believe in any god ..another who believe there is some energy called source but reject religions and third who believe in god according to their religion..the third kind of people are again divided into various religions and according are skeptic about other's definition of god..

                for example you reject christian's claim of christ dying on cross. Isn't it?...like wise christians reject muhammad's claim to prophet hood ...muslims at large reject ghulam shaab..so skepticism becomes a subjective matter...

          2. 59
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Taqiyaa.

            Many have brought out their criteria, you simply ignored it all. You most certainly are not all ears to them.

            1. 69
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend Q

              I don't believe in it.

              Thanks

              1. 59
                (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Taqiyaa, again.

      4. chatpilot profile image76
        chatpilotposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Subjective experiences do not count as evidence for the existence of god, a revelation such as the the Bible or the Koran are only a revelation to the ones claiming to have had them. To the rest of us they are nothing more than hearsay.

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend chatpilot

          I don't agree with you; people in all ages in different parts of the world who did not have contact with one another with truthful reputation have testified for having talked to the Creator- God Allah YHWH; there is no reason why it should not be believed. The Skeptics are definitely wrong and they deny only in confusion.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  8. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago

    Beelzedad wrote:
    Deriding skepticism does not support your claims for a god.

    True, Deriding skepticism, derides the religious belief in the non-existence of God.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So - you believe in the God that wrote the Quran?

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
        Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you have proof that any God wrote the Quran? I'd like to see that.

        I for one believe that it was written by some human being.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Please prove that.

          Otherwise it is 50/50 and I don't see how you can argue with that. wink

          But - you seem to disbelieve randomly without proof that God did not write the Quran.

          Now - I am confused because you believe everything unless you have proof against it.

          Explain please.

        2. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I don't need to prove any such thing. All I need to do is make a statement - it is up to you to disprove it.

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            According to the skeptics here, Lack of proof= proof?

            Then consider my point as proven true. Here is no evidence to support the non-existence of God, which proves God exists... Right?? hmm

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No.

              Please prove that the God that wrote the Quran does not exist.

              Thank you.

              1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
                Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I can't, I don't have any proof. So I must admit that it is possible.

                But I will stay with my belief until there is proof one way or the other.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  OK

                  Now prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not God and does not exist.

                  Are we still at 50/50 for these? lol

                  1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I can't. So I must admit that it is possible.

                    But I choose to remain with my belief, that it is fictional, until proof can be provided either way.  smile

        3. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Mikel G Roberts

          The Word of Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, called Quran,was spread on 23 years of ministry of Muhammad . It was a verbal Revelation; though it was dictated by Muhammad to the scribes. The word Quran means verbal revelation; not the written one; though for preservation purposes it was also written down. Quran was verbally learnt to heart by Muhammad and many of his companions as soo as it was revealed. It was not authored by Muhammad but by the Creator.

          I think that helps

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I am aware that that is what you believe, but your belief is not proof.
            I am also aware that neither is my belief proof. So until proof is produced, we will simply have to agree that there is a 50/50 chance that either of us is correct, and agree to disagree.

            On a side note, I believe that it no longer matters how the Muslim faith got started... it has been corrupted into a tool of fanatics and politicians. It is not what it started out as, and I believe that Muhammad would be ashamed of what it has become.

            ...My Humble Opinion.

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I do not have any PROOF but I do think that Islam is not what it started out being
                Christianity is not what it started out being
                Science is not what it started out to be
               
              Nothing on thei earth is what it started out to be, even the earth itself. A simple rock comes close...  but .. it too changes minutely.

                 My beliefs are constantly changing..  hopefull for my betterment, But who is to say?

          2. 0
            pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you for telling me  - The word Quran means verbal revelation

      2. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi ...

        Yes; I belive the Creator- God Allah YHWH who created this universe, the same Creator authored Quran.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  9. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Let me guess, using dialup connection ?


    Here we go,Lack of evidence of creator on which you're creating stories and unable to give empirical evidence if his existence is that obvious for you.


    Sun-rise and sun-set are natural phenomena and comparing it with universal creator by assuming his existence is not at all making sense. More word play from you i guess.


    You said cause you;re religious and not skeptic to find the difference between natural, un-natural. You don't understand what is natural and un-natural without finding flaws do you ? hey, but you're not skeptical so how can you say that it is natural without understanding unnatural ? wink


    Your another assumption.Thanks for word-play.

  10. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Burden of proof is on the person who claims something. When i claim god doesn't exist i point to your lack of empirical evidence/proof. So burden of proof is not on me cause i'm not making stories based on god/satan. am i ?


    That applies to you as you can't prove existence of god still persist on making stories by assuming his existence but i've given you proof that you can't prove your views. So who needs to admit ?


    Read about burden of proof.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this


      Mikel wrote: True


      Mikel wrote: Lack of proof is not proof, it is nothing. So you have provided nothing and are claiming nothing is proof, that is a fallacy.


      Mikel wrote: To prove your point, the burden of proof IS on you.[/b]



      Mikel wrtote: You have provided Nothing, nothing is not proof, it is Nothing. I have given you proof that you have no proof, by your logic that proves my position.

      Mikel wrote: You Do.




      Mikel wrote: I have, and it clearly states I am correct in my use of the burden of proof, and that you are incorrect.  smile

      1. skyfire profile image71
        skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        "Lack of proof from the person who claims" shows that any story/claim he makes for that is false and made up. So if anyone objects that then it's "nothing for you as it makes uncomfort for your position" but it proves point that anyone who can't back up their claims are making stories. And this is not a fallacy.




        It's not meaningless cause can you back up your stories of god and satan with empirical evidence ? So who holds burden of proof me ? am i claiming something ? To prove my point again, burden of proof is on you.



        #2 "Lack of proof from the person who claims" shows that any story/claim he makes for that is false and made up. So if anyone objects that then it's nothing for you but it proves point that anyone who can't back up their claims are making stories. And this is not a fallacy.


        Nope, you're incorrect cause if you claim something then you need to backup. So when you say god exist, come up with proof, i hope you get the burden of proof ? I see i'm correct here.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
          Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for playing.

  11. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    Children! Children!
    ENUF!
    Now, what is this god thing you are arguing about?
    If neither of you know..then why are you kids arguing about nothing?...hmmm?

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      qwark: "Now, what is this god thing you are arguing about?"

      http://hubpages.com/hub/I-want-to-tell- … eve-God-is

  12. qwark profile image61
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    Hahahaha...children will be children!
    Arguing about sumthin' they know nuthin' about.
    fun to watch as long as it doesn't get physical..:-)

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      roll

  13. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Mikel G Roberts wrote:

    NO, the burden of proof is on you.

    Skyfire wrote:

    Burden of proof is on the person who claims something.
    Mikel G Roberts wrote:True

    Skyfire wrote:

    When i claim god doesn't exist i point to your lack of empirical evidence/proof.
    Lack of proof is not proof, it is nothing. So you have provided nothing and are claiming nothing is proof, that is a fallacy.

    Skyfire wrote:

    So burden of proof is not on me cause i'm not making stories based on god/satan. am i ?<----Meaningless.

    To prove your point, the burden of proof IS on you.

    Paarsurrey says:

    I agree with friend Mikel G Roberts ; that the burden of proof is on the Skeptics.


    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  14. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Logical fallacy-appeal to common practice.

    Really ? that proves nothing as you can't give evidence. We need evidence not word play. Either you and rest of them are lying or are ready to give empirical evidence, simple.




    Just because you and rest of the other say so doesn't make them messengers of god.



    There are many reasons but you're not skeptical and you can't differentiate as well so how can you figure that out ?



    another assumption.


    assumption again.


    empirical evidence? simple.

    1. 0
      pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I do not 'believe' God exist.

      And although Paarsurrey does not convince that God exists, nor do you do not convince that you 'know' God does not exist...

      Where is your evidence, without resorting to logic, based on nothing but empirical data, to prove the theory 'God does not exist'?

      We have nothing but beliefs about God(s), either for or against; nothing is proved either way...

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So - does that mean that god is just as likely to exist as not and we should ignore the impossibility of proving a negative?

        Or is that just more woowoo word salad looking to prove I know not what? wink

        The way I look at it is - there are two choices only:

        1. A god exists
        2. A god does not exist

        I think we will agree that there are no half measures in this case. So:

        In the absence of proof either way there is a 50/50 chance of a god existing (ignoring common sense and any sort of logical application as I know you do not like that.)

        There are an infinite number of possible gods.

        Therefore it is infinity:one against a specific god as defined by whoever defines it existing.

        Therefore it is infinitely more likely that a god does not exist than one does. And anyone who commits to the infinity:one bet is probably wrong.

        I personally do not believe a god exists and I would go further and say I do believe that all the people claiming to know that one does are either wrong, mistaken or outright charlatans.

        1. 0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Why does it matter if a god exists or not? Both arguments can never be solved. If any god exists, humans are to praise/blame. Course, you already know this, as do all humans. The universe/Creator is not 'a god'. Can humans get passed it. Seems silly to ague the same fundamental (fun dumb mental perhaps) falsehoods on both ends of the string theories.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Because everyone who thinks god exists feels the need to develop a religion with compulsions that others need to follow. That is what I am arguing against.

            But - you are now calling the Universe a "Creator" and implying a personality. And your religion feeds theirs.

            Go Elohim!!! How Great Is HE!!!! LOLOLOL Funny stuff for some one without an ISM. wink

            1. 0
              Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              To understand the Ism, Marcus, you have to understand without the Ism/the applied condition. My personal titling of Elohim stems from my mum and only used in that reference. The Universe has character just observe a single strand of grass. So ascribing Creator simply implies the entire thing, not a singled out ideology. But, again, you know this. (I would say I was preaching to the choir, but that would resurface the Vatican with even more tar. ha ha!)

              All-be-it, religion by sensation or equation are running amuck with no visible signs of slowing down. And maybe that's a good thing. At some point, perhaps, both will run out of hot air and just seize to exist.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                To be continued - I am off to a pre film festival party in Cannes and hope to sell a screen play..... Wish me luck. big_smile

                1. 0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  break a leg, brother!

                2. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                  ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  say hello to my sister...

                3. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Break a leg Mark!

                4. 0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  did you sell it?

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Not yet. Another meeting on Sunday. smile

  15. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Burden of proof is on one who claims things, skeptics are objecting on person who claims such things so how can skeptics hold burden of proof ?

    So "when you can't back up your wild wet allah claims with empirical evidence" then you're making stories(lying in short) if unable to give proof then shifting burden of proof on skeptics with word play cause it troubles your position,my friend. LMAO...

  16. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Skyfire wrote:

    “Logical fallacy-appeal to common practice.”

    “empirical evidence? Simple”

    Paarsurrey says:

    Hi friend skyfire

    There is no logical fallacy here. In fact the Creator- God Allah YHWH says that nobody could see or perceive Him with his own effort/eyes. The things created by Him which have physical/bodily form could be seen with the experiments of the Scientific Method. This formula is not valid for the Creator.

    I quote His words:

    [6:102] The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a son when He has no consort, and when He has created everything and has knowledge of all things?
    [6:103] Such is Allah, your Lord. There is no God but He, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Guardian over everything.
    [6:104] Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.
    [6:105] Proofs have indeed come to you from your Lord; so whoever sees, it is for his own good; and whoever becomes blind, it is to his own harm. And I am not a guardian over you.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=100

    In fact when you demand such evidence; you admit the truthful existence of the Creator-God Allah YHWH.

    The fallacy is on your side; you think the Creator is like the things created; and hence you want to perceive him under your own terms with the tools that are not made for that purpose.

    It is like trying to pull a nail, which has gone deep into the wood, with a hammer instead of a claw, the proper tool for that purpose.

    Maybe it helps you

    I don’t mind if you remain a skeptical; no compulsion and no hard feeling whatsoever.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  17. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    lol

    there is no burden of proof.
    homemade bourbon is 90% proof.
    bourbon is not a burden.
    to your health! salute!

    lol

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Twenty One Days

      I don't mind. Remain in peace.

      Yet the burden will remain on the Skeptics.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If it's not Satan, it's a skeptic onto shifting the burden.

        Does the bell not toll for thee?

        You must understand, paarsurrey, that suburban angst begins with having no ice, too much polysorbate 80 and arbitrary donuts in the diet.

        We are a nation of pinheads where mothers milk can lead to self-immolation.

        Surely, that's proof enough for anyone.  smile

  18. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    skyfire wrote:

    empirical evidence? simple

    Paarsurrey says:

    Religion says that the Creator- God Allah YHWH is only known by his attributes and does not have any physical body. If you mean by empirical evidence a scientific proof; that Science already have provided by their admittance when they say they have found no clue of Him in the Universe.

    This is a solid proof that Religion is right.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nothing is everything and everything is nothing.

      ~~ Bizzaro World

      smile

  19. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    These persons are called Messengers and Prophets of God.

    Skyfire wrote:

    Just because you and rest of the other say so doesn't make them messengers of god.

    Paarsurrey says:

    Just because you and rest of the other Skeptics out of their sheer confusion say doesn't prove that they were not messengers prophets of god.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Paarsurrey says:

    There is no  valid reason to falsify them.

    Skyfire says:

    There are many reasons but you're not skeptical and you can't differentiate as well so how can you figure that out ?

    Paarsrrey says:

    Your reason won't have been worthwhile so you have not written them. Please write them so that Skepticism is exposed to the full.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. marinealways24 profile image61
      marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      lol I knew my prophet detector was right. lol


      You do believe you are a prophet. lol Maybe you can get up with Mohit and learn how to sell your prophet ebooks.

  20. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    If both a Muslim and a Christian were fighting logic, which one would win? lol

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend marinealways24

      If you are also not involved in the discussion; naturally you cannot win either.

      Only that person would win who is truthful on the issue and presents his wiew point with reason, rationality and logical arguments.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So - the lie is exposed. You are attempting to win.

        Thank you Usmanali.

        But - you are not using reason, rationality and logical arguments - you are lying and presenting your opinion as fact. Is this allowed according to your laws, Usmanali?

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not only allowed, it is expected and encouraged when Islam is at stake.  wink

    2. DavitosanX profile image81
      DavitosanXposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No one would win. Ignorance always leads to defeat. (Two sets of circular logic will never get anywhere)

  21. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    paarsurreyposted 4 minutes agoin reply to this
    Hi friend marinealways24

    If you are also not involved in the discussion; naturally you cannot win either.

    Only that person would win who is truthful on the issue and presents his wiew point with reason, rationality and logical arguments.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim



    lol Sorry, Wrong answer. Neither the christian or the muslim would win, LOGIC would win. lol

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend marinealways24

      Then come on with your logic, please; if it is truthful. You are welcome

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How about, there is no such thing as a peaceful muslim or christian, the terms alone cause disagreement. I don't think your prophethood is coming true. lol

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          zzzzzzzzzz....there are many peaceful muslims and christians. they are just not peaceful when they're fighting over OIL and LAND

  22. marinealways24 profile image61
    marinealways24posted 6 years ago

    That was quick and easy. lol

  23. 0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Neither side can prove nor disprove God...

    1. Beelzedad profile image61
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Neither side can prove nor disprove [insert anything from the imagination that does not exist]...

      Hey Deborah, lookin' good today!!!

      1. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, you too.

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friends

      The Skeptics because of their doubts cannot experience Him; many truthful persons experienced Him when he talked to them in almost all parts of the world.

      We can also experience Him from his Word Revealed.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    3. 0
      pburgerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      At last, Deborah Sexton, you sound a voice for reason

      1. 59
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That isn't reason, it's a cop out.

  24. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Denial of the Creator is a made up delusion of the Skeptics

  25. 69
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    There are some Skeptics here; perhaps they won't believe their parents without a DNA test.

    If one is a natural believer with reason;one doesn't need even a birth certificate to know one's parents. The Skeptics however need it and musth demand it from their parents; otherwise in their doubts they may think they are born of a rabbit.
    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  26. 0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago

    am I in denial?

    so confused

    hmm:

  27. SparklingJewel profile image66
    SparklingJewelposted 6 years ago

    It is my opinion, that denial of the existence of a Creator is complicated by the human perception of what is and is not the Creator, through the numerable religions and belief systems.

    The answer to accepting some form of Creator, or at least the existence of some "Source" from which all energy came that made everything, may be for some, to not put so much stock in those systems; but understand that it is up to the individual to seek and find his/her feeling of acceptance of their part to play in the Universal Plan as being the most important point...and then being the best human being that they can be in life to fulfill that Plan.

    It has been my experience that reason and feeling are important. I can understand completely why some object so to doctrine and dogma of religions and beleif systems...they are too humanly limited and persecuting of human life.

    sometimes what they deny is valid and is not of the Creator.

  28. Naturalreflection profile image60
    Naturalreflectionposted 6 years ago

    This concept can be easily understood if introduced in the proper way. A dependent being is something that can not exist on its own; it needs a creator. We are dependent beings in that we are born from our parents who were born from their parents and so on. A non-dependent being is something that needs no cause of its existence. Its existence is only explained by its existence.

    An infinite chain of dependent beings can not exist because the question of how the first dependent being came into existence is not explained. No matter how many dependent beings you have, you still need at least one non-dependent being to start the reaction. This is the Creator, and this is what humans attach the word God to.

    The existence of a creator is undeniable with this argument, but for us to make claims of his intentions, characteristics, and interventions in human life is something that we can not possibly perceive. It is a great possibility that the Creator of the universe does not care about us at all.

    I am a skeptic, not of the existence of a creator, but of what mankind attempts to claim about him in order to tell other people how to live their lives.

    1. SpanStar profile image59
      SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      you can believe what you want to believe and people can misrepresent God so I believe the bible was given us so that we do not have to take the word or actions of men.

      I say this only for clarification to some of your statements don't think for one minute I want you to do anything but that which you choose to do.

      1. 59
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Even though the bible was in fact written by men. wink

        1. SpanStar profile image59
          SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I'm presuming you're presenting this question to me and I'm not sure what you're really trying to say but if your saying it shouldn't be believed because it was written by men then my understanding is God was the inspiration for the writing because the writers didn't even understand those things they were writing about.  I look at it like we look at ghost writers today.

          1. 59
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You can believe it if you want.

            However, you must remember it was written by men who CLAIMED to be inspired by a god, just like the thousands of other men who wrote other scriptures claiming to be inspired by gods.

            Just how many men who claimed to be inspired by various gods are we to believe?

          2. 69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend SpanStar

            There cannot be contradictory inspiration from one source.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      2. NightEmpress profile image60
        NightEmpressposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you really think the Bible is the Word of God ? Who wrote it ? God or Man ?
        I'm sure you know the correct answer is Man.

        1. Rod Marsden profile image85
          Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          NightEmpress a true believer would say the hand was Man but the inspiration was God. The Bible is full of contradictions and omissions. This doesn't seem very Godly to me. For Example when it comes to the last supper who was the loved one? We don't Know. Some people have speculated that it was Mary Magdalene but the truth is no one really knows for sure.

          1. NightEmpress profile image60
            NightEmpressposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And it doesn't matter anyway. LOL

            1. Rod Marsden profile image85
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well, probably not....It would be nice to think of Jesus in a relationship with Mary but we'll probably never know.

              1. NightEmpress profile image60
                NightEmpressposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I'm sure Jesus loved a lot of people ! Or maybe not lol

                1. Rod Marsden profile image85
                  Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I meant a relationship such as husband and wife but I take it you're just funning me. Naughty NightEmpress!

  29. artsy_fartsy profile image61
    artsy_fartsyposted 6 years ago
    1. Rod Marsden profile image85
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry link wouldn't work for me. A pity.

    2. SpanStar profile image59
      SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It was a long video but it did have interesting things to say.  You know man has been apposed to God since Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden.  There are those who no matter what you say will ever accept God and they are free to do so.  I just can't understand why they fight against that which they feel doesn't exist?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ah - so what you are saying is - No religion has ever imposed itself on anyone and no wars have ever been caused. And those who believe in an invisible super being tend to keep it quietly between themselves and do not go around preaching about it?

        Right? lol

        And yes - no matter what you say - your god does not exist.

  30. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    pisean282311  said 
      it is because there are three type of people in the world..one who dont believe in any god ..another who believe there is some energy called source but reject religions and third who believe in god according to their religion..the third kind of people are again divided into various religions and according are skeptic about other's definition of god..
    =====================================
    Jerami says
       in truth there is only one catigory of people

       Those that think that they are right and everyone with other believs just don't know what you do.
        I don't think like that therefore, "they" must be wrong.
        Everybody's doin it.
        Now be honest, you do it too   ...  and then we analize that we don't do that; except for when they are wrong??

    1. pisean282311 profile image57
      pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      interesting point..thought provoking too...

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        but in reality...  many people on these forums are as much as saying this every day.
          these can be divided into three groups'
          Those that are rude when they say it;
        and those that do it politely.
        And those that are sneaky when they do it.

          Many don't even realize that they are doin it.
          But everyone is doin it.
         
          If you just knew what I do, you would agree with me.
         
          There I just did it.   (again)

  31. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I just took a quick walk through the forums.
    (religion & beliefs)
      Everybody is doin it.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Jerami

      And Skeptics do it most.

      Thanks

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Skeptics are more in your face when they do it.

          Others are smiling at ya when they do it.

          Some are in denial that they are doin it

           But everybody's doin it.

        1. BDazzler profile image82
          BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I am NOT in denial! wink

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Me either

        2. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend Jerami

          I know they are doing it in confusion and doubts; not even Science support them. They don't have any other alternative. Do they?

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  32. SpanStar profile image59
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    All through bibilical history men have not believed in God modern man isn't doing anything new.

    1. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do you think that those people hundreds of years ago that did not believe in God could/would  have hidden or destroyed evidence of the creator, so that others would believe as they do.
        It is said that the Church collected absolutely everything that they could find concerning the life of Christ.And these are in arcives at the vatican that no one are allowed to examine.
         It does not suprise me that there is little documentation avaliabel fto society of the existance of Jesus and his teachings.

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Jerami

        No, it is the Skeptics and Atheists who did it in their own confusion without any truthful argument.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          How is accusing atheists of being liars being peaceful, Usmanali?

          By your own admission - you are skeptical of all other religions, and you have no reasonable evidence for your own irrational beliefs.

          You have not provided any reason at all and are lying about the history of your religion. How is this peaceful?

          Truthfully - you have no reasonable argument or evidence do you?

  33. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    paarsurrey   
    I know they are doing it in confusion and doubts; not even Science support them. They don't have any other alternative. Do they?
    ====================

      Yes we do have other alternatives.
    If we could stop doing that we might actually hear other opinions and see that we do not have all of the right answers.

      I have seen truth in things that everyone on here have said.
    Sometimes people are saying the same things but are argueing with others about the prospective from which they are expressing themselves.

       There is so much understanding being lost because we protect our own ideas by closing our eyes to other ideas that aren't even at odds with ours as much as we precieve them to be.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Jerami

      Now your eyes are open; it is OK with us. Please elaborate.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        your asking for me to elaberate upon this last post is an example of the point that I was making.
          People only see the things that we want to see.
          We are blind to things that are right before our eyes.
         
          You only saw these few words out of the entire post.
         
          I did not say that my eyes are open.
        I am attempting to see; there is a diffrence
        Some people choose to remain blind by closing their eyes and ears to everything that does not fit within their understanding.

           And it seems that everybody is doin it.
           Some more than others.

  34. SpanStar profile image59
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Destroying evidences years ago about the teaching of Jesus, Oh yes that is most certainly a possiblity since what people wanted to do was to stamp out Christianity and as we can see that hasn't changed today.

    The one thing about humans is we are selfish, we want things our own way and that leads me back to the Garden of Eden.  Adam & Eve had no threats, no taxes to paid, they were in perfect health but it wasn't good enough they want to be a God just like God.

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend SpanStar

      It is not true that Adam and Eve wanted to be god; they were servants of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; they wanted to improve themselves ethically, morally and spiritually to be in image of God. The scribes of Bible narrated the story incorrectly.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. SpanStar profile image59
        SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The bible said they serpent told them they would be like God, knowing Good & Evil.  If they really wanted to improve themselves then why did they go against the wishes of God?

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend SpanStar

          It is more fault of the scribes writing Bible. As I told they incorrectly mentioned the phenomenon.

          To err is human; so Eve and Adam could make a mistake, when they realized they ask forgiveness from the Creator- God Allah YHWH and he forgave them.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yeh, like paarsurrey said with such certainty they got the bits he disagrees with wrong.

            I wos there too and saw the whole thing happen! lol lol lol

            1. Rod Marsden profile image85
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              There is an interesting Italian film I saw ages ago where Adam and Eve are shot out of the garden of eden and find themselves in the prehistoric world battling to survive alongside cavemen. I think they threw in saber tooth tigers and woolly mammoths. A bit of a come down from a pretty garden with a babbling brook. And Earnest don't ask me what it was babbling about 'cause I don't know.

              1. Rod Marsden profile image85
                Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Earnest the brook was babbling no doubt in Italian and my Italian isn't the best.

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I would have enjoyed that sort of movie. Anything about religion cracks me up! lol

  35. Cagsil profile image79
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    lol lol lol lol lol

  36. watchya profile image59
    watchyaposted 6 years ago

    I find Taqiyya very useful.

    When I have to deal with 'virtual' beings like you ! lol

    1. 59
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Are you saying you find it useful to lie to protect your religion?

      1. 69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Q

        There is no Taqiyya in Quran/Islam.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. 59
          (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That would be more Taqiyaa about Taqiyaa. Well done.

          1. 69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend Q

            Perhaps it is you who practice Taqiyya; it is no in Quran/Islam and Muhammad never practiced it.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. TMMason profile image73
              TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Actually Paa...

              Your Qu'ran says explicitely that Allah is responsible for un-believers not believing in him. He says he has purchased thier souls ahead of time, and, I, allah, have placed a viel over thier eyes and hearts.

              So then it is his fault and not made up.

              Does it not?

              1. 69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend TMMason

                I think, you have not understood the verse from its context. Please quote the text of the verse with five preceding and five following verses for the context; and then establish your viewpoint. You will yourself understand it; or we shall discuss it here.

                Thanks

                I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  37. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    No.

    I have posted enough that you have not answered.

    My view is correct. Allah himself states he has sent a strong delusion against the unbelievers.

    you know where it is.... go read it again. I am sure it will click soon enough.

    Also.

    Let me ask you a question. Since I so openly bared my soul as to my denomination to you.

    My question is.

    Do you believe that "Nask", Abrogation, occurs in the Qu'ran?

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend TMMason

      If you mean from "Naskh"; cancellation of one verse of Quran from another verse Quran; that is not in Quran; and I don't believe it.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. TMMason profile image73
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Even though Allah himself dictates it?.... Iis in the Qu'ran.

        You are way out of line with mainstream.

        I know it differs among the Ulama as to how many verses of the Qu'ran are abrogated, anywhere from 20 to 500, but that it doesn't happen.

        Is just wrong.


        And this is from your hom,e site...

        http://www.alislam.org/

        Alah himself states...


        [2:107] مَا نَنْسَخْ مِنْ اٰيَةٍ اَوْ نُنْسِهَا نَاْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَآ اَوْ مِثْلِهَا‌ؕ اَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ اَنَّ اللّٰهَ عَلٰى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيْرٌ‏ 
        [2:107] ۞ مَا نَنسَخۡ مِنۡ ءَايَةٍ أَوۡ نُنسِهَا نَأۡتِ بِخَيۡرٍ۬ مِّنۡہَآ أَوۡ مِثۡلِهَآ‌ۗ أَلَمۡ تَعۡلَمۡ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ قَدِيرٌ 
        [2:107] Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?
        [2:107] جو آیت بھی ہم منسوخ کر دیں یا اُسے بھلا دیں، اُس سے بہتر یا اُس جیسی ضرور لے آتے ہیں۔ کیا تُو نہیں جانتا کہ اللہ ہر چیز پر جسے وہ چاہے دائمی قدرت رکھتا ہے؟ 

        Go Ahead read it for yourself Paas. Here is the text with pre and post text. And in Arabic. Enjoy.


        [2:101] اَوَکُلَّمَا عٰهَدُوْا عَهْدًا نَّبَذَهٗ فَرِيْقٌ مِّنْهُمْ‌ؕ بَلْ اَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُوْنَ‏ 
        [2:101] أَوَڪُلَّمَا عَـٰهَدُواْ عَهۡدً۬ا نَّبَذَهُ ۥ فَرِيقٌ۬ مِّنۡهُم‌ۚ بَلۡ أَكۡثَرُهُمۡ لَا يُؤۡمِنُونَ 
        [2:101] What! every time they make a covenant, will a party among them throw it aside? Nay, most of them have no faith.
        [2:101] کیا جب کبھی بھی وہ کوئی عہد کریں گے ان میں سے ایک فریق اس (عہد) کو پرے پھینک دے گا؟ بلکہ ان میں سے اکثر ایمان ہی نہیں رکھتے۔ 

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        [2:102] وَلَمَّا جَآءَهُمْ رَسُوْلٌ مِّنْ عِنْدِ اللّٰهِ مُصَدِّقٌ لِّمَا مَعَهُمْ نَبَذَ فَرِيْقٌ مِّنَ الَّذِيْنَ اُوْتُوْا الْكِتٰبَۙ کِتٰبَ اللّٰهِ وَرَآءَ ظُهُوْرِهِمْ كَاَنَّهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُوْنَ‏ 
        [2:102] وَلَمَّا جَآءَهُمۡ رَسُولٌ۬ مِّنۡ عِندِ ٱللَّهِ مُصَدِّقٌ۬ لِّمَا مَعَهُمۡ نَبَذَ فَرِيقٌ۬ مِّنَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ ڪِتَـٰبَ ٱللَّهِ وَرَآءَ ظُهُورِهِمۡ كَأَنَّهُمۡ لَا يَعۡلَمُونَ 
        [2:102] And now when there has come to them a Messenger from Allah, fulfilling that which is with them, a party of the people to whom the Book was given have thrown the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if they knew it not.
        [2:102] اور جب بھی ان کے پاس اللہ کی طرف سے کوئی رسول آیا جو اُس کی تصدیق کرنے والا تھا جو اُن کے پاس تھا تو ان میں سے ایک گروہ نے جنہیں کتاب دی گئی اللہ کی کتاب کو پسِ پُشت ڈال دیا، گویا وہ علم ہی نہ رکھتے ہوں۔ 

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        [2:103] وَاتَّبَعُوْا مَا تَتْلُوْا الشَّيٰطِيْنُ عَلٰى مُلْكِ سُلَيْمٰنَ‌‌ۚ وَمَا کَفَرَ سُلَيْمٰنُ وَلٰـكِنَّ الشَّيٰـطِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا يُعَلِّمُوْنَ النَّاسَ السِّحْرَ وَمَآ اُنْزِلَ عَلَى الْمَلَـکَيْنِ بِبَابِلَ هَارُوْتَ وَمَارُوْتَ‌ؕ وَمَا يُعَلِّمٰنِ مِنْ اَحَدٍ حَتّٰى يَقُوْلَاۤ اِنَّمَا نَحْنُ فِتْنَةٌ فَلَا تَكْفُرْؕ‌ فَيَتَعَلَّمُوْنَ مِنْهُمَا مَا يُفَرِّقُوْنَ بِهٖ بَيْنَ الْمَرْءِ وَ زَوْجِهٖ‌ؕ وَمَا هُمْ بِضَآرِّيْنَ بِهٖ مِنْ اَحَدٍ اِلَّا بِاِذْنِ اللّٰهِ‌ؕ وَيَتَعَلَّمُوْنَ مَا يَضُرُّهُمْ وَلَا يَنْفَعُهُمْ‌ؕ وَلَقَدْ عَلِمُوْا لَمَنِ اشْتَرٰٮهُ مَا لَهٗ فِىْ الْاٰخِرَةِ مِنْ خَلَاقٍ‌ؕ وَلَبِئْسَ مَا شَرَوْا بِهٖۤ اَنْفُسَهُمْ‌ؕ لَوْ کَانُوْا يَعْلَمُوْنَ‏ 
        [2:103] وَٱتَّبَعُواْ مَا تَتۡلُواْ ٱلشَّيَـٰطِينُ عَلَىٰ مُلۡكِ سُلَيۡمَـٰنَ‌ۖ وَمَا ڪَفَرَ سُلَيۡمَـٰنُ وَلَـٰكِنَّ ٱلشَّيَـٰطِينَ كَفَرُواْ يُعَلِّمُونَ ٱلنَّاسَ ٱلسِّحۡرَ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَى ٱلۡمَلَڪَيۡنِ بِبَابِلَ هَـٰرُوتَ وَمَـٰرُوتَ‌ۚ وَمَا يُعَلِّمَانِ مِنۡ أَحَدٍ حَتَّىٰ يَقُولَآ إِنَّمَا نَحۡنُ فِتۡنَةٌ۬ فَلَا تَكۡفُرۡ‌ۖ فَيَتَعَلَّمُونَ مِنۡهُمَا مَا يُفَرِّقُونَ بِهِۦ بَيۡنَ ٱلۡمَرۡءِ وَزَوۡجِهِۦ‌ۚ وَمَا هُم بِضَآرِّينَ بِهِۦ مِنۡ أَحَدٍ إِلَّا بِإِذۡنِ ٱللَّهِ‌ۚ وَيَتَعَلَّمُونَ مَا يَضُرُّهُمۡ وَلَا يَنفَعُهُمۡ‌ۚ وَلَقَدۡ عَلِمُواْ لَمَنِ ٱشۡتَرَٮٰهُ مَا لَهُ ۥ فِى ٱلۡأَخِرَةِ مِنۡ خَلَـٰقٍ۬‌ۚ وَلَبِئۡسَ مَا شَرَوۡاْ بِهِۦۤ أَنفُسَهُمۡ‌ۚ لَوۡ ڪَانُواْ يَعۡلَمُونَ 
        [2:103] And they pursue the course which the rebellious men followed during the reign of Solomon. And Solomon did not disbelieve; but it was the rebellious ones who disbelieved, teaching people falsehood and deception. And they pursue what was revealed to the two angels in Babylon, Harut and Marut. But these two taught no one until they had said: ‘We are but a trial, do not therefore disbelieve.’ So men learnt from them that by which they made a difference between a man and his wife, but they harmed no one thereby, except by the command of Allah; on the contrary, these people are learning that which would harm them and do them no good. And they have certainly known that he who trafficks therein has no share of good in the Hereafter; and surely, evil is that for which they have sold their souls; had they but known!
        [2:103] اور انہوں نے پیروی کی اس کی جو شیاطین سلیمان کے ملک کے خلاف پڑھا کرتے تھے اور سلیمان نے کفر نہیں کیا بلکہ وہ شیاطین تھے جنہوں نے کفر کیا۔ وہ لوگوں کو جادو سکھاتے تھے۔ اور (اس کے برعکس) بابل میں جو دو فرشتوں ہاروت اور ماروت پر اتارا گیا (اس کا قصہ یہ ہے) وہ دونوں کسی کو بھی کچھ نہیں سکھاتے تھے جب تک وہ (اُسے) یہ نہ کہہ دیتے کہ ہم تو محض ایک آزمائش کے طور پر ہیں پس تُو کفر نہ کر ۔ پس وہ لوگ ان دونوں سے ایسی بات سیکھتے تھے جس کے ذریعے وہ خاوند اور بیوی کے درمیان جدائی ڈال دیتے تھے اور اللہ کے اِذن کے سوا وہ اس ذریعہ سے کسی کو نقصان پہنچانے والے نہیں تھے۔ اور (اس کے برعکس جو لوگ شیاطین سے سیکھتے تھے) وہ وہی باتیں سیکھتے تھے جو ان کو نقصان پہنچانے والی تھیں اور فائدہ نہیں پہنچاتی تھیں۔ حالانکہ وہ خوب جان چکے تھے کہ جس نے بھی یہ سودا کیا اس کے لئے آخرت میں کچھ حصہ نہیں رہے گا۔ پس بہت ہی برا تھا وہ (عارضی فائدہ) جس کے بدلے میں انہوں نے اپنی جانیں بیچ دیں، کاش کہ وہ جانتے۔ 

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        [2:104] وَلَوْ اَنَّهُمْ اٰمَنُوْا وَاتَّقَوْا لَمَثُوْبَةٌ مِّنْ عِنْدِ اللّٰهِ خَيْرٌؕ‌ لَوْ كَانُوْا يَعْلَمُوْنَ‏ 
        [2:104] وَلَوۡ أَنَّهُمۡ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱتَّقَوۡاْ لَمَثُوبَةٌ۬ مِّنۡ عِندِ ٱللَّهِ خَيۡرٌ۬‌ۖ لَّوۡ كَانُواْ يَعۡلَمُونَ 
        [2:104] And if they had believed and acted righteously, better surely would have been the reward from Allah, had they but known!
        [2:104] اور اگر وہ ایمان لے آتے اور تقویٰ اختیار کرتے تو اللہ کی طرف سے (اس کا) اجر یقیناً بہت اچھا ہوتا۔ کاش کہ وہ جانتے۔ 

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        [2:105] يٰٓاَيُّهَا الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا لَا تَقُوْلُوْا رَاعِنَا وَ قُوْلُوْا انظُرْنَا وَاسْمَعُوْا‌ؕ وَلِلْڪٰفِرِيْنَ عَذَابٌ اَلِيْمٌ 
        [2:105] يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لَا تَقُولُواْ رَٲعِنَا وَقُولُواْ ٱنظُرۡنَا وَٱسۡمَعُواْ‌ۗ وَلِلۡڪَـٰفِرِينَ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ۬ 
        [2:105] O ye who believe! say not ‘Ra‘ina,’ but say, ‘Unzurna’ and hearken. And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment.
        [2:105] اے وہ لوگو جو ایمان لائے ہو (ہمارے رسول کو) ”رَاعِنَا “ نہ کہا کرو بلکہ یہ کہا کرو کہ ہم پر نظر فرما اور غور سے سنا کرو۔ اور کافروں کے لئے درد ناک عذاب (مقدر) ہے۔ 

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        [2:106] مَا يَوَدُّ الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا مِنْ اَهْلِ الْكِتٰبِ وَلَا الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ اَنْ يُّنَزَّلَ عَلَيْڪُمْ مِّنْ خَيْرٍ مِّنْ رَّبِّکُمْ‌ؕ وَاللّٰهُ يَخْتَصُّ بِرَحْمَتِهٖ مَنْ يَّشَآءُ‌ؕ وَاللّٰهُ ذُوْ الْفَضْلِ الْعَظِيْمِ‏ 
        [2:106] مَّا يَوَدُّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَلَا ٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ أَن يُنَزَّلَ عَلَيۡڪُم مِّنۡ خَيۡرٍ۬ مِّن رَّبِّڪُمۡ‌ۗ وَٱللَّهُ يَخۡتَصُّ بِرَحۡمَتِهِۦ مَن يَشَآءُ‌ۚ وَٱللَّهُ ذُو ٱلۡفَضۡلِ ٱلۡعَظِيمِ 
        [2:106] They who disbelieve from among the People of the Book, or from among those who associate gods with Allah, desire not that any good should be sent down to you from your Lord; but Allah chooses for His mercy whomsoever He pleases; and Allah is of exceeding bounty.
        [2:106] اہل کتاب اور مشرکین میں سے جن لوگوں نے کفر کیا وہ ہرگز پسند نہیں کرتے کہ تم پر تمہارے ربّ کی طرف سے کوئی خیر اُتاری جائے حالانکہ اللہ جس کو چاہتا ہے اپنی رحمت کے لئے خاص کر لیتا ہے اور اللہ بہت بڑے فضل والا ہے۔ 

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        [2:107] مَا نَنْسَخْ مِنْ اٰيَةٍ اَوْ نُنْسِهَا نَاْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَآ اَوْ مِثْلِهَا‌ؕ اَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ اَنَّ اللّٰهَ عَلٰى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيْرٌ‏ 
        [2:107] ۞ مَا نَنسَخۡ مِنۡ ءَايَةٍ أَوۡ نُنسِهَا نَأۡتِ بِخَيۡرٍ۬ مِّنۡہَآ أَوۡ مِثۡلِهَآ‌ۗ أَلَمۡ تَعۡلَمۡ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ قَدِيرٌ 
        [2:107] Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?
        [2:107] جو آیت بھی ہم منسوخ کر دیں یا اُسے بھلا دیں، اُس سے بہتر یا اُس جیسی ضرور لے آتے ہیں۔ کیا تُو نہیں جانتا کہ اللہ ہر چیز پر جسے وہ چاہے دائمی قدرت رکھتا ہے؟ 

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        [2:108] اَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ اَنَّ اللّٰهَ لَهٗ مُلْكُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالْاَرْضِ‌ؕ وَمَا لَـکُمْ مِّنْ دُوْنِ اللّٰهِ مِنْ وَّلِىٍّ وَّلَا نَصِيْرٍ‏ 
        [2:108] أَلَمۡ تَعۡلَمۡ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَهُ ۥ مُلۡكُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ‌ۗ وَمَا لَڪُم مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ مِن وَلِىٍّ۬ وَلَا نَصِيرٍ 
        [2:108] Dost thou not know that the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs to Allah alone? And there is no protector or helper for you beside Allah.
        [2:108] کیا تُو نہیں جانتا کہ وہ اللہ ہی ہے جس کی آسمانوں اور زمین کی بادشاہی ہے؟ اور اللہ کو چھوڑ کر تمہارے لئے کوئی سرپرست اور مددگار نہیں۔ 

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        [2:109] اَمْ تُرِيْدُوْنَ اَنْ تَسْـَٔـلُوْا رَسُوْلَـكُمْ كَمَا سُٮِٕلَ مُوْسٰى مِنْ قَبْلُ‌ؕ وَمَنْ يَّتَبَدَّلِ الْکُفْرَ بِالْاِيْمَانِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ سَوَآءَ السَّبِيْلِ‏ 
        [2:109] أَمۡ تُرِيدُونَ أَن تَسۡـَٔلُواْ رَسُولَكُمۡ كَمَا سُٮِٕلَ مُوسَىٰ مِن قَبۡلُ‌ۗ وَمَن يَتَبَدَّلِ ٱلۡڪُفۡرَ بِٱلۡإِيمَـٰنِ فَقَدۡ ضَلَّ سَوَآءَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ 
        [2:109] Would you question the Messenger sent to you as Moses was questioned before this? And whoever takes disbelief in exchange for belief has undoubtedly gone astray from the right path.
        [2:109] کیا تم چاہتے ہو کہ تم اپنے رسول سے بھی اسی طرح سوال کرتے رہو جس طرح پہلے موسیٰ سے سوال کئے گئے۔ پس جو بھی ایمان کو کفر سے تبدیل کرے یقیناً وہ سیدھی راہ سے بھٹک چکا ہے۔ 

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        [2:110] وَدَّ کَثِيْرٌ مِّنْ اَهْلِ الْكِتٰبِ لَوْ يَرُدُّوْنَكُمْ مِّنْۢ بَعْدِ اِيْمَانِكُمْ كُفَّارًا ۖۚ حَسَدًا مِّنْ عِنْدِ اَنْفُسِهِمْ مِّنْۢ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْحَـقُّ‌ ۚ فَاعْفُوْا وَاصْفَحُوْا حَتّٰى يَاْتِىَ اللّٰهُ بِاَمْرِهٖ ‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ عَلٰى کُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيْرٌ 
        [2:110] وَدَّ ڪَثِيرٌ۬ مِّنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ لَوۡ يَرُدُّونَكُم مِّنۢ بَعۡدِ إِيمَـٰنِكُمۡ كُفَّارًا حَسَدً۬ا مِّنۡ عِندِ أَنفُسِهِم مِّنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ ٱلۡحَقُّ‌ۖ فَٱعۡفُواْ وَٱصۡفَحُواْ حَتَّىٰ يَأۡتِىَ ٱللَّهُ بِأَمۡرِهِۦۤ‌ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ ڪُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ قَدِيرٌ۬ 
        [2:110] Many of the People of the Book wish out of sheer envy from their own selves that, after you have believed, they could turn you again into disbelievers after the truth has become manifest to them. But forgive and turn away from them, till Allah brings about His decree. Surely, Allah has the power to do all that He wills.
        [2:110] اہل کتاب میں سے بہت سے ایسے ہیں جو چاہتے ہیں کہ کاش تمہیں تمہارے ایمان لانے کے بعد (ایک دفعہ پھر) کفار بنا دیں، بوجہ اس حسد کے جو اُن کے اپنے دلوں سے پیدا ہوتا ہے (وہ ایسا کرتے ہیں) بعد اس کے کہ حق ان پر روشن ہو چکا ہے۔ پس (اُن سے) عفو سے کام لو اور درگزر کرو یہاں تک کہ اللہ اپنا فیصلہ ظاہر کردے۔ یقیناً اللہ ہر چیز پر جسے وہ چاہے دائمی قدرت رکھتا ہے۔ 
         
        And Naskh iterally means obliteration. Naskh has been defined as the suspension or replacement of one Shariah ruling by another. And allah himself says in the Qu'ran.

        Are you trying to decieve or do you really not know? Abbrogation is the reason there can be no peace with the unbelievers. Never... till the day of judgement Jihad is binding upon Muslims.

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend TMMason

          I thank you for quoting the verse with the context; which makes it very clear.

          The context tells us that the verse pertains to OTBible and NTBible; the verses in the context mention of the people of the Book; which are obviously the Jews and the Christians and their scriptures.

          If a teaching in the OTBible & NTBible is cancelled; Quran either mentions a teaching similar to that or a better one on that.

          I give an example from Torah:

          Deuteronomy 19:21

          Thou shalt not pity him, but shalt require life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

          Quran:

          [5:45] Surely, We sent down the Torah wherein was guidance and light. By it did the Prophets, who were obedient to Us, judge for the Jews, as did the godly people and those learned in the Law; for they were required to preserve the Book of Allah, andbecause they were guardians over it. Therefore fear not men but fear Me; and barter not My Signs for a paltry price. And whoso judges not by that which Allah has sent down, these it is who are the disbelievers
          [5:46] And therein We prescribed for them: A life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and for other injuries equitable retaliation. And whoso waives the right thereto, it shall be an expiation for hissins; and whoso judges not by what Allah has sent down, these it is who are wrongdoers.

          http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=44

          Quran makes provision of forgiveness for the defaulter, if it is thought benefiting for the society; otherwise the same teaching has been repeated.

          I think everybody would understand it; even the Jews.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful understand

          1. TMMason profile image73
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            That flies in the face of every Islamic School of thought in existence. Well 99.995 of them.

            Shall I post some of your scholars man.

            I mean that is good you look at it like that. But you may have a hard time convincing the rest of Islam.

            That law applies to all text sent by allah. All his signs... "ayat". the common name of reference to the verses of the Qu'ran. All.

            But thank you for answering Paas.

            1. 69
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend TMMason

              I thought like a Westerner , you would accept your mistake open heartedly and frankly. Please read it again; there should not be any ifs and buts for Truth; it is before you; accept it; no compulsion.

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  38. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    Still waiting Paas?

  39. TMMason profile image73
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    So Paas. how do you explain the contridictions in the Qu'ran?

    1. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend TMMason

      So far, I have seen  contradictions in you; not in the Quran. Just quote text of one verse with five preceding and five following verses for the context; may be I could help you.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. TMMason profile image73
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Paas. Your whole line of reasoning to islam is in contridiction with the Ulema of Usul and every Imam, Jurist, Mufti and Cleric I have ever read. And that is a whole lot....

        Please.

        I see very clearly why your sect is considered heretical. It is not me your argument is with. It is with the majority of Muslims and Islamic Scholars which reject your claims.

        Sorry man.... you will not convince me.

        1. 69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend TMMason

          I was not convincing you; I was just exposing contradictions in you; since you asked for it.

          Have a good day and live with your contradictions; there are no contradictions in Quran; you will never find one if you just see the context; if you just be blind of the context; then you see your own contradictions reflected in it. Quran is a mirror of one's personality and character; it is therefore advised in Quran, to take refuge in the Creator-God Allah YHWH before starting reading it.
          No compulsion.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. TMMason profile image73
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Okay Paas....

            Again.

            You have to convince your own Islamic bros and sis of that. Not me. The Islam which dominates the world is a whole long ways from the idealistic Islam you practice friend.

            Verses 109 1nd 105 alone represent such a complete contridiction to your understanding of Islam. That it isn't funny.

            Sorry...

            1. 69
              paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi friend TMMason

              Have they been able to understand correct meanings of the Quran; then there was no need of advent of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908; they simply have become blind to the correct meanings; that is why Mirza Ghulam Ahmadi has been sent by the Creator- God Allah YHWH to explain correct meanings of all the Revealed Scriptures of the world.

              Quran is an open Book; they could also employ the context principle; in fact anyone could employ this principle and can understand Quran; and with Quran as a key, all truthful teachings in other Revealed Books or the Revealed Religions could be understood.

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

              1. TMMason profile image73
                TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                As I said enjoy your version of Islam. I hope it does catch on. It would save alot of lives.

  40. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7B69071ced-aeb9-4974-a0ba-5cdefe0b1608%7D.gif

 
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