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Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets; hence their fate

  1. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    Both Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets hence their fate that they got killed.

    Jesus was a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; and hence he was saved a cursed death on Cross.

    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Muhammad was false, too. smile

    2. Greek One profile image79
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I guess the Quran doesn't mention anything about martyrdom?...

      or is every Muslim who gets killed for his a religion a false prophet?

  2. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friend Greek One

    Torah and Quran both mention that the Creator- God Allah YHWH so arranges the things that false prophets messengers always get killed. This is because they say that the Creator- God Allah YHWH has talked to them and given a message for them; while He has not talked to them or sent them. This punishment is specific for the claimants of Messengership or Prophet-hood, not for a lesser rank of people.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Greek One profile image79
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Can you please tell me one of Paul's prophecies??

      1. profile image67
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend

        If one somebody says that God has shown him a vision and appointed him for some mission; that is the same. It is wrong understood that Prophet only talks of future; past,present and future are all included in Prophet-hood or Messenger-ship.

        You may access the following link about Paul's claim on that:

        http://www.jcu.edu/Bible/PAUL/Life/Prop … postle.htm

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Greek One profile image79
          Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          1)  Your own link states in the first line that "book of Acts presents Paul as a prophet, but Paul claims that he is an apostle. History has upheld Paul's claim rather than that of Acts.”

          2) You still have not offered one of Paul's prophesy

          3) There were many prophets in the Old Testament.  Did none of them die?

          4) Unlike you mentioned in your previous post, Jesus DID die.  He was NOT saved the cursed death on Cross.  That’s how was able to come BACK to life

          5) And by the way ,can you find me anywhere in the NEWTestament where it says all prophets will be spared death?

          1. profile image67
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friend

            Torah is very clear on it; it makes no exception.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. Greek One profile image79
              Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Friend

              Are you going to answer my points, or is your intention merely to continually post on subjects just to read your own words?

              I am not going to get into a debate as to whether Paul was or was not a prophet, because clearly he never claimed to be.  But even if he was...

              1) Can you tell me where it says that prophets will be sparred death? .. in the Old and New Testiment? 

              2) Why do you say that Jesus was sparred death as a prophet when in fact he did die?

              1. profile image67
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend

                I don’t debate with anybody to win; I only discuss to ascertain TRUTH; you are free to hold your own opinion, I don’t mind.

                1.    Torah is very clear on killing of the false Prophets Messengers; therefore, only those who survived killing were the Truthful ones.

                2.    I started a separate thread on the topic Jesus did not die on the cross; if you feel convenient we may discuss it there.

                Thanks

                I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                1. Greek One profile image79
                  Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not debating you, i simply would like your answers.  I am assuming that you posted this forum post to have a discussion?

                  1) You say that the Torah was clear on the killing of false Prophets, so I would like to know which of the true prophets did NOT die in your opinion?

                  2) You were the one who brought up Jesus and said he was a Prophet.  You say that Jesus never died at all?  In your version of history, did he just walk to his tomb and lie down there for a couple of hours?

                  Please share your knowledge so that we may all learn the truth through friendly dialogue

                  1. Shadesbreath profile image89
                    Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL why are you even bothering?

                  2. profile image67
                    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi friend

                    1.    No truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH could be killed, from Adam to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in our own times.

                    2.    Jesus did not die on the cross; as that would make him a false Prophet Messenger. He escaped a cursed death on the Cross. He died later a very peaceful and natural death in India.

                    My pleasure to discuss.

                    Thanks

                    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    2. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Who exactly are those people?

  3. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friends

    I feel that my Atheist friends here think that I want to win from them. No; I don't discuss for winning; I discuss for understanding the TRUTH. If we reach at TRUTH by positive discussion; we all human beings win; otherwise we all lose,that is my thinking and approach.

    I respect you all

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You have rejected the truth. You therefore have nothing to discuss. smile

  4. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Greek One wrote:

    There seems to be a whole lot of Prophet killing mentioned in the Qur'an, doesn't there?  Are you SURE you read it??

    Paarsurrey says:

    They intended to kill the prophets; that is mentioned as a charge-sheet for them.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Greek One profile image79
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Intended?  Charge sheet?  hahahaha  ur kidding, right?   You are re-writing the Qu'ran and just twisting it's words so as to try to prove a point. 

      First you came up with your own definition what a 'prophet' is, and now you are trying to twist around the Qu'ran?  I remind you again that...

      Qur’an 2:61 says "They DISBELIEVED in Allah's revelations and SLEW the prophets wrongfully..." It does NOT say that the 'INTENDED' to kill them .”

      3:112 says "...That is because they USED TO disbelieve the revelations of Allah, AND SLEW THE PROPHETS wrongfully..." again, it says not INTENDED to kill them but that they "USED TO disbelieve" and that they "SLEW THEM" (past tense).

      5:70 says Whenever a messenger WENT to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected and SOME OF THEY KILLED.

      and finally, Quar'an 2:87 ....is it not so that every time an apostle CAME unto you with something that was not to your liking, you gloried in your arrogance, and to some of them you gave the lie, while OTHERS YOU WOULD SLAY?

      Above are 4 instances taken directly from the Qu'ran clearly mention that prophets were murdered. 

      You have yet to give even one example where it says that Prophets would be spared death in any religious text. 

      Clearly you don't have the evidence to support your forum topic, in which case you should do a bit of research before you post, or you have no desire the seek the truth.   

      In your attempt to prove the 'falseness'of other religions, you instead mutilate the words of the Qu'ran.

      You either have not read the Qu'ran, or you are a heretic.  Which is it?

  5. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Greek One wrote:

    You have yet to give even one example where it says that Prophets would be spared death in any religious text.

    Paarsurrey says:
    As asked by you I quote from Quran:

    [40:51] They will say: ‘Did not your Messengers come to you with manifest Signs?’ They will say: ‘Yea.’ The Keepers will say, ‘Then pray on.’ But the prayer of disbelievers is of no avail.
    [40:52] Most surely We help Our Messengers and those who believe, both in the present life and on the day when the witnesses will stand forth,

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=46

    [4:158] And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty;

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=153

    Bible also support my view if read intently.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Greek One profile image79
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      THAT'S the best you can come up with?  THAT's what you based this forum topic on??

      Your first reference just says that Messengers will be 'helped'... this could be helped in their mission, helped throughout their lives, helped in many ways.  In other words that God will help those who will believe in Him. It does NOT say that they will be saved from hardships along the way, let alone from dying from a painful illness or injury, or from being killed.

      Note too that your quote also mentions "and those who believe" in addition to "Messengers".  Are you telling me that in all history, in all the wars, no believer has ever been killed??  What about martyrs?  Were they not believers?  If so, why were they killed??

      Your second reference does not support your opinion that Prophets will not be murdered, it just states the Qu'ran's opinion that one particular special Prophet was not murdered.   There is a big jump from saying that just because one Prophet was not murdered, that all Prophets would be saved from such a fate.

      How can you take these two references and claim that the Qu'ran says that no single prophet can ever be murdered, especially when the 4 quotes I gave you clearly state that they have been??  You are not reading the Qu'ran intently, you are mis-reading it beyond any point of logic or in any way that is justified by faith

      Clearly, if you are seeking the truth like you say, going by what is clearly written in the Qu'ran, just because someone has been murdered, it does not mean that they were not a prophet.  In fact, as the Qu'ran clearly says that Prophets were murdered, it can be argued that Muslims who claim otherwise, are heretics.

      I am glad that I can help you find the truth, and hope that you, as a Muslim, will focus a little bit more on the Qu'ran, and a little less on posting ridiculous forum posts that make you look both uninformed and blasphemous

  6. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Hi friend Greek One

    Do you believe in Joseph Smith Jr., as false Prophet Messenger?

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

      Hi friend Greek One

      Do you believe in Joseph Smith Jr., as false Prophet Messenger?

      This is just for information; then we will revert to our topic unders discussion. No embarrassment intended; no compulsion whatsoever.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    2. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

      Hi friends

      Our friend Greek One has not responded to my simple question.

      Torah is very clear on the fate of the false Messengers Prophets; they were to be killed and the truthful Messengers Prophets could not be killed.

      If it is not a truthful teaching; then what was the purpose of this Commandment in Torah; and why so much emphasis was put on it? Any wise men could tell us.

      Paul, Bab and Joseph Smith Jr., were false prophets and hence they had a similiar fate; got killed.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Greek One profile image79
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        why do you think i would take the time to answer your questions when you don't chose to answer mine or respond to the evidence I gave you from the Qu'ran?

        If you don't want a true discussion andto find the truth.. if you only want to keep posting topics over and over again making yourself look foolish, with no intent to have a real discussion, then go ahead.. you don't me or anyone else for that

    3. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

      Paul and Joseph Smith Jr. were false Prophets; hence their fate

      1. Beelzedad profile image60
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Stir the pot, repeat and stir. smile

    4. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

      Hi friends

      I think everybody has now understood that Paul,Baab Bahai and Jospeh Smith Jr., were false Prophets and hence they were killed in terms of the Torah.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    5. aka-dj profile image78
      aka-djposted 6 years ago

      Just like the dead prophets, you should kill this thread too.
      Nobody is interested in it.
      Or do you wish to resurrect the prophets like this thread???

      1. Greek One profile image79
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        agreed

    6. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

      Hi friends

      OT-Bible and Quran both say that the false Messengers Prophets get killed; I quoted the verses from OT-Bible; here is from Quran:

      [69:41] That it is surely the word brought by a noble Messenger;
      [69:42] And it is not the word of a poet; little is it that you believe!
      [69:43] Nor is it the word of a soothsayer; little is it that you heed!
      [69:44] It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
      [69:45] And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,
      [69:46] We would surely have seized him by the right hand,
      [69:47] And then surely We would have severed his life-artery,
      [69:48] And not one of you could have held Us off from him.

      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=40

      So it is for sure right.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Greek One profile image79
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        boy, that is sure reaching...

        but it still doesn't prove any of your points at all.

        You can do better than that my friend, keep looking

        1. profile image67
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi freind Greek One

          If you have something good with you please go ahead and don't hold it; I am a good listener.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

     
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