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"The Quran teaches its followers to lie to non-Muslims."!!!!????

  1. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39744?page=4#post926376

    Beelzedad wrote:

    The Quran teaches its followers to lie to non-Muslims. 
    Hi friend Beelzedad

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    Please quote the text of the verse from Quran. Please also provide five preceding verses and five following verses for the usual short context; so that the verse is correctly understood.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  2. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    Hi friend Beelzedad and other Skeptics

    You are welcome to discuss on the subject to find Truth; yet I find no reply from you.Perhaps you found no such verse in Quran; there is none in fact.

    You are under no compulsion to admit your mistake; of course you said it on hearsay and now you cannot establish it. Is that the case with you?

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You can take any one of paarsurrey's posts to see these tactics. For example, calling everyone friend, thanking and leaving off with a "peaceful Muslim" claim are all part and parcel to Taqiyaa tactics.

      Followed are usually claims of how Islam overtook sliced bread as the greatest thing. Attempts to deflect, deceive and confound are all captured in his responses to anyone's criticism of his claims or Islam.

      When I saw the "no compulsions" I had to really chuckle. Perfect.  smile

      1. FranyaBlue profile image77
        FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        can we agree to say that the translation of the general meaning of the word Taqiyaa is diplomacy. Nothing wrong with diplomacy. smile

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I'd rather go with the actual translation: concealing, precaution, guarding.  smile

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Which is a very accurate description of Diplomacy !
            lol

            1. profile image0
              Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I agree..someone can hate you but still be diplomatic..which is concealing, deceiving...

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Deborah! nice 2 C U ! smile

                1. profile image0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Nice to see you too Tantrum. smile

              2. profile image67
                paarsurreyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend Debora Sexton and tantrum

                Well, I don't hate you; I just respect you both.

                Thanks

                1. profile image0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh,  no..I was saying that in comparison

                2. tantrum profile image60
                  tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I wasn't talking about you. Just stating a definition for diplomacy.
                  If you respect me or not, I really don't care.

                  1. profile image0
                    Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    You and I have more in common then was thought in the beginning. smile
                    It's obvious there are a lot of people here who don't like me..It doesn't change who I am..and I couldn't care less.

          2. FranyaBlue profile image77
            FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            "diplomacy is the employment of tact to gain strategic advantage" Which is in line with what you were saying about there being honor in duping. It's all the same.

            1. Beelzedad profile image59
              Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Diplomacy is simply negotiation, the handling of a situation. Of course, you can employ concealment, precaution and guarding within the negotiations, but they are only characteristics of negotiation and not defined as such.  smile

  3. Beelzedad profile image59
    Beelzedadposted 7 years ago

    It's called Taqiyaa.  smile

    1. FranyaBlue profile image77
      FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I thought that Taqiyaa meant lie through fear, as in a Muslim can lie and say they are not a Muslim IF they will be killed for saying so. I don't think it applies to any other situation.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Then, you would be wrong.  smile

        1. FranyaBlue profile image77
          FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Says you. smile

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            The example you provided is something most believers would do for their religions.

            Shame, honor and power are held in strict regard and have more to do with the Arab world than the morals we derive for them. Taqiyaa is the embodiment of this culture in Islam. smile

            1. FranyaBlue profile image77
              FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Some sects see Taqiyya as a compulsory action when faced with death but the majority of Muslims who are Sunni feel that it is still a lie and that our fear should be for Allah and not for any human. smile

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                It really has little to do with death and everything to do with taking what you can get and being one step ahead. Lying and cheating are not held with the same moral standards we might have. There is honor in duping.

      2. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Even David pretended to be insane because he was afraid of a king..

        ! Samuel 21
        12. David took these words to heart and greatly feared Achish king of Gath.

        13. disguised his sanity before them, and acted insanely in their hands, and scribbled on the doors of the gate, and let his saliva run down into his beard.
        14. Then Achish said to his servants, “Behold, you see the man behaving as a madman. Why do you bring him to me?

        15 “Do I lack madmen, that you have brought this one to act the madman in my presence? Shall this one come into my house?”

    2. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Beelzedad

      If it is mentioned in Quran, the first and foremost source of guidance of the Muslims whatever the denomination; then please give the text of the verse and the verses in context; total eleven verses as requeted.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        He always tells everyone they are wrong...He won't even try to prove he's right because he knows he is going by what others say.

        Most people here haven't picked up the Quran mush less read it.

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Perhaps, you've noticed my responses to parrsurrey employ pretty much the exact same tactics of Taqiyaa that parrsurrey is using in all of his posts. These tactics have been brought over from the tribal Arab culture and embedded into Islam. smile

        2. FranyaBlue profile image77
          FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah that's what I gathered.

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That too would be wrong.  smile

            1. FranyaBlue profile image77
              FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Says you smile

              1. Beelzedad profile image59
                Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I've been explaining along the way, have I not?  smile

                1. FranyaBlue profile image77
                  FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  That would be wrong.  smile

                  1. Beelzedad profile image59
                    Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Calling me a liar?

                    There is another form of deception permitted in Islam towards non-believers; kitman which is "lying by omission." Muslim apologists use these tactics all the time.

                    A good example is one you offered in regards to Taqiyaa only being used in matters of being threatened with death. smile

        3. profile image67
          paarsurreyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hi friend deborah sexton

          I never thought you would turn to me. You are welcome. It is always useful to discuss with intellignet person like you.

          If the Skeptics say I think; it is their moral duty to establish it form the root sources.

          Is it not their duty?

          Are they morally right to say out of hearsay ?

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  4. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 7 years ago

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEGsnWZKh8

    I see, god enlightened too much to this religion such that they're showing these symptoms eh?

    Lie or "word of god" conspiracy ??

    Quran preaches 'hell to non-believers" this is where it lie as if any entity like god exist then it gives rats a** to whether person is believer or non-believer. is god jobless retard to tell believers to kill non-believers ? i mean create two types in same species with just psychological difference of "belief" and asking another type to kill just because of "belief". God must be "jobless bored retard" to order something like that in any religious book.

  5. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    FranyaBlue wrote:

    That would be wrong. 

    Beelzedad responded:

    Calling me a liar?

    Paarsurrey says:

    I respect you; as you people say that you are people of reason; so I won't pronounce that. I would just say that you are mistaken.

    Now you and/ or other Skeptics have to prove and establish that you are not mistaken. If you cannot do that; and I know you cannot; that would be your freedom of thought.

    Would you like to enjoy your freedom of thought?

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I respect you, but you have rejected the truth.



      You must believe in the truth and not be so skeptical. No compulsions. smile

  6. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    Beelzedad wrote:

    There is another form of deception permitted in Islam towards non-believers; kitman which is "lying by omission."

    Paarsurrey says:

    You are already overburdened to prove “Taqiyaa” from Quran, the first and the foremost source of guidance, whatever the dimension; when you are finished with that then you can of course switch over to “kitman” at your leisure. I won’t mind if other Skeptics help you out of this burden or overburden.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Quran 2:225, 3:38, 16:106, 9:3, 40:28, 66:2.  Happy versing. smile

  7. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 7 years ago

    glad you asked about that but Islam and freedom of thought ?

    No kidding...freedom something like this ?

    http://www.mylifedump.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/uimassa_vaimon_kanssa.jpg

    1. FranyaBlue profile image77
      FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I went swimming in the sea at Portsmouth looking a bit like this, although my face and hands were not covered. More fun than you might think.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Wouldn't the weight of a wet Bhurka drag you down in water over your head?

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image82
          IntimatEvolutionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Man that had to be heavy.

          1. Beelzedad profile image59
            Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            As well, the woman usually wears a dress under the Bhurka. Wearing that much material while swimming would surely drag you under.

            1. FranyaBlue profile image77
              FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              No the fabric is quite lightweight, even when wet. It has to be lightweight or it would get too hot.

              Have you been looking under women's Bhurkas??

        2. FranyaBlue profile image77
          FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No.

      2. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So - you wear a Bhurka little red-headed girl?

        1. FranyaBlue profile image77
          FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No, I said I wasn't covering my face.

          That little red haired girl is my 4yr old sister smile

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Beautiful girl. Where R U from?
            Family origin I mean

            1. FranyaBlue profile image77
              FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks!

              My entire family for the past few generations were all born in England so we say we are English. However, my family tree is one of many branches and my lil sisters dad is Polish.

              BUT....we have traced our family tree back to the Spanish Moors. Just thought I'd add that bit in smile probably more than you were asking for!

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                thanks for the reply.smile
                I asked because  it seems you're Muslim. I thought maybe you were fro Syria or Lebanon because of the red hair .

                1. FranyaBlue profile image77
                  FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol. The red hair is photoshopped, could it be classed as a lie?? smile

                  1. tantrum profile image60
                    tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    lol lol
                    It can be deceiving

      3. skyfire profile image72
        skyfireposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe fun for you. But you don't realize slavery and suppression in that case.

        1. FranyaBlue profile image77
          FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Clothes never enslave anyone. If I am free to decide that I want to go swimming in my clothes or wear a scarf or even wear nothing then how is that slavery or suppression?

          It is people who enslave people, forcing someone to wear something is the same as forcing someone not to wear something. No one should be forced.

  8. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    "The Quran teaches its followers to lie to non-Muslims."!!!!????

    Hi friends

    The above was only an allegation of the Skeptics here; they alleged out of hearsay; and when asked to quote it from Quran, they just could not.

    In fact Quran is truthful; it promotes truth , peace and respect of others. Quran commands to be with the truthful persons:

    [9:119] O ye who believe! fear Allah and be with the truthful.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=114

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      An excellent example of the title. Thank you.  smile

      1. FranyaBlue profile image77
        FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I just read this and noticed something.

        Paar said:

        THE skeptics
        THEY alleged
        THEY just could not

        It seems that he is talking about the skeptics who don't
        believe and are therefore non-muslim.

        Even the Quran quote addresses the believers

        So, from looking at the language used, what he said
        isn't a good example of the title because he isn't talking
        to non-muslims smile


        Don't mind me, I'm just practicing my text analysis skills smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ignoring the simple, obvious fact that paarsurrey is attacking atheists, Christians and all and sundry non-muslims, and ignoring the fact that he is cut-and pasting arguments and does not have English as a first language will skew your text analysis quite drastically.

          Still - you are here for the semantics I suspect. like all good believers. wink

          1. FranyaBlue profile image77
            FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yep just semantics smile

            Don't worry I am the first to skew what I write! Just wanted to see if anyone else would.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yes - semantics. Good for you. Lots of believers need to do that. I don't blame you. I would if I believed the same stuff you do.

              wink

              1. FranyaBlue profile image77
                FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Your contribution to the forums would be more appreciated in my thread on cooking my lamb overnight. I know you write recipes so get over there! smile

                1. Obscure Divine profile image61
                  Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I think recipes for cooking pork would be more appropriate on a Muslim forum, don't ya think?

                  1. FranyaBlue profile image77
                    FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    The thing about being an English Muslim means I get the pork jokes from my family everyday. Thanks for making me feel at home smile

        2. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It would appear more as if your practicing Taqiyaa, but if that's what you want to call it, so be it. smile

  9. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 7 years ago

    "Islam dictates on what to wear" << this is the point. People opposing this are not asking women "not to wear anything" but asking for their freedom of choice, which is not biased to any religious unproved claims.

  10. skyfire profile image72
    skyfireposted 7 years ago

    Because your religion says so. Your that decision or choice is based on religious rules and not your personal decision. Only Islamic womens will think like this that "it's fun or no-slavery to accept religious burden" as it's part of their freedom of choice.

    1. FranyaBlue profile image77
      FranyaBlueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      so it isn't really enslavement or suppression then if it is part of their freedom of choice. It is only enslavement or suppression to anyone who is forced and hasn't chosen it for themselves. There are plenty of Muslim women who have chosen not to wear it, just because it's something that is a part of the religion or something which Islam dictates doesn't mean that anyone MUST follow it.

      1. Beelzedad profile image59
        Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Because perhaps, they don't live in a Muslim state?  wink



        Muslims MUST. That's the point. smile

  11. Obscure Divine profile image61
    Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago

    Here I was, thinking the Quran just promoted innocent suicide bombers...now, they admit that they lie to non-Muslims.  Geez!  Y'all anti-swine, anti-alcohol Muslim folks sound dangerous!!!  To think you guys were promised how many virgins in heaven upon the Murder Death Kill of who all that doesn't follow ya?

    Thanks,

    I am chaotic Agnostic with an insane Actuality to combat Asininities.

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The Arab culture is very different from our own, lying is not held up as a moral standard but instead, a tactic to be used in all negotiations, that's why it is captured in Islam, so as to give all Muslims the tool they need to protect Islam from criticism.

      1. Obscure Divine profile image61
        Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, sort of like the way Politicians do in the U.S.?  big_smile

  12. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    Obscure Divine wrote:

    Here I was, thinking the Quran just promoted innocent suicide bombers...now, they admit that they lie to non-Muslims. 

    Paarsurrey says:

    They are doing terrorest acts on their own. Quran/Islam/Muhammad do not support them.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Obscure Divine profile image61
      Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      'Paarsurrey' the "peaceful Muslim" doesn't seem to understand sarcasm, nor the fact that many of these kooks die for Muhammad while performing these outrageous acts of insanity.

      Thanks,

      I am chaotic Agnostic with an insane Actuality to combat Asininities.

  13. profile image67
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    Hi friends

    The Quran does not teaches its followers to lie to anyone. Quran is very straightforward.

    Thanks

    1. Pearldiver profile image86
      Pearldiverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Straight Forward Huh? Yeah Right!!!

      I guess that's why it is read Back-The-Front lol

      Why are you Preaching here? hmm

      Many of us are Insulted by being referred to as Infidels! sad

      1. profile image67
        paarsurreyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend Pearldiver

        If the following meaning given in the dictionary are not valid on your concepts; then Quran does not address you as infidel:

        infidel (plural infidels)
        1.    A non-believer of a certain religion
        2.    One who does not believe in a certain principle
        3.    One with no religious beliefs.
        http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infidel

        Quran addressed the Meccans of the time of Muhammad as infidels; and they had no objection to it.

        I am only expressing what I believe as truthful; others are open to criticize me if I am wrong with their reasonable , rational and logical arguments. It is an excersice of finding truth if it is with my other fellow human beings. I am sorry; they start deriding; from which I know they are finished with their reason.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. Beelzedad profile image59
          Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That is because you view any criticism of Islam as derision, which you were taught to do by the Quran. smile

    2. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You are lying and you were taught to lie as a result of your religious beliefs in the Quran, which teaches you to lie to infidels. I have provided many passages from the Quran already.

      No compulsion to you. smile

  14. errum fattah profile image59
    errum fattahposted 7 years ago

    paars...leave him wat will u do with beelze... he's responsible for his own deeds, if somebody is talking with respect than thats the person whom should we talk not the person who dont knows how to respect any religion...

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Paarsurrey has no respect for anyone here, why should he get any? smile

      1. Obscure Divine profile image61
        Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree; Paarsurrey seems to spam the forums with the redundant self-proclaimed title of "peaceful Muslim" and is yet to prove that he/she even uses toilet paper!  big_smile

  15. Disturbia profile image61
    Disturbiaposted 7 years ago

    Have any of you even read the Quran?

    1. Beelzedad profile image59
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I have. It's easy and boring reading and all online for your perusal. smile

    2. profile image67
      paarsurreyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend disturbia

      One may access and read Quran:

      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  16. LeanMan profile image81
    LeanManposted 7 years ago

    Just want to join in and clarify a few things...

    I am not muslim and I have not read all of the relevant book but I have read some... I have lived in saudi arabia for 2 years...

    The lie is not confined to non-believers, they lie non stop here about just about everything!!! Why they didn't come to work, why they didn't do anything all day, you name it they talk rubbish.. even if they say they will do something you know they won't because they end the sentence "Inshallah" (god willing).. it always means that it wont be done!

    The biggest bunch of hypocrites I have ever had the misfortune to work with - good job they pay well!

 
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