This is a long video but it is so well said that I'd recommend you listen to it all, as only Stephen Fry can say it. He talks about his differences of opinion and problems with the Catholic Church.
Hopefully, debate here can stay polite.
I only wish I could write half as as well as this guy orates.
He presents an excellent argument...then again...let's not forget that this guy is one of the greatest actors ever....that he has paid script-writers who are paid a damn sight more than $2 per 250 words.
Great argument...thanks for posting UW
To others, don't let it change your thoughts. Take them onboard by all means.
Don't be persuaded by great orations such as this. Shut the radio off. Shut the TV off. Sit down and THINK!
A Hell of a lot of what Stephen Fry says is the truth IMO, but you might not believe it.
Sit and think!
As I will.......
what a passionate man.
i would like to see him unscripted.
thanks for the link UW, enjoyed it.
All I can say is that I will and do stick up for people and their expressed religions and those without but there are a small number of folks in the world with very sour hearts that would in fact change the face of all those associated with whatever belief it is they hold and in return, conspire (in a sense) against all those who reflect a good spirit within the title of the said belief.
For instance, here on HP, it is concerning how apprehensive some can be with regards to their disdain for other peoples perspective and beliefs. Sometimes they regard themselves in the same category, or religion but end up saying something completely insensitive that it severely disrespects all the other who regard themselves in the likes.
Take Mark for example. What do I really think of him? I think he is just fine. I think he does have a heart and I think that he does make well informed statements and asks good questions. I think however that his desire to be inequitably correct, or rather to unfairly divide people for reasons that I can only understand to be from the notion that he genuinely wants to be right and he feels just as passionate about his sustenance as those who profess something else. In return, the exchange has become self defeating because what perspired is not what I believe his original intent was.
And to be fair, it isn't just atheism but also religions. It's the idea that anyone has to believe in anything other than what they personally believe. It's the demand or servitude of ALL people being on the same 'path'.
We have found and continue to find indecency within all acts of humanity (if you can call it that) that makes us question everything we know of. And although in our hearts, so I believe, we all want the same things, we 'battle' against each other for or against the ideals of another believing somehow that if...
If we can all be on the same page then all the problems will be fixed and life will change. As for me, though I do associate myself as a Christian, more precisely gnostic, I absolutely know that there will always be someone out there who will tell me that, I cannot be any of such things because I am unorthodoxed in every way because I want to be me, not what you want me to be.
I can choose what is best for myself and believe what makes the most sense to myself and call it whatever I wish to call it. It's when others feel they can somehow speak for me and attribute my 'real' feelings to something they believe instead of what I said I believe that is troublesome.
Like when Mark says he is atheist and someone insist that because he is atheist he must be the devil as well.
Or when I say that I 'believe' in Jesus, and someone comes along and tells me I cannot believe in him that way, then I must be the devil or I am confused or better yet, that I am a liar because I believe what I believe. And as much as it does pain me to understand what I do see, there is an originator of this deplorable understanding and it is not religion, the devil, atheist, or whatever...
I cannot say for sure what it is other than not allowing people to find their own 'spirit' to be 'free spirits' to think for ourselves whether we agree with some aspects of religions and atheism or not. No one can tell me how I "should" feel, I feel and understand for myself. Does anyone get that?
So some folks on hp cannot stand me and make fun of me for sticking up for Christians and some Christians cannot stand me because I stick up for Atheist... I say whateva! If there is anything to understand, then being accepting of differences would be a good start.
Sorry so long and sorry if I offended anyone.
this is the most profound contribution made to hp since i've joined. thanks for this.
Hey UW! Interesting but not shocking. Let's see a gay man with an ax to grind with religion sounds about right. To attack a church that so many believe in is mean spirited. Are there issues in the Catholic Church? You betcha! Are there issues in the gay community? You betcha! Do child abusing priests deserve punishment? The worst kind! If you review this tale of woe there are some facts that always get glossed over. First, the majority of the offenses are or seem to be man on boy. Well it appears these creeps lied and decieved the church they vowed to represent. That is not a reflection on the church that they have been infiltrated by the advisary, its a refelection or our battle against evil. Gay priests are liars, creeps, abusers and the scum of the earth. Sorry if that seems offensive but, when you make an agreement with anyone, God included, and you violate that an agreement you're slime.
Now man on man or man on boy sex is the same other than the point one gives consent and the other takes advantage. It still fits the definition of homosexual behavior and anyone guilty of this behavior understands the rules. They have made a consious effort to circumvent or violate the rules and thus they represent no church.
Look lefties can the crap! You always throw out a bunch of nonsense hoping something sticks. You've got a whole circus full of wierdos in your corner! Just remember the glass house rule! Look I like Aussies but for some reason they have a virus that affects their compassion for their fellow humanbeings when it comes to religion. I only say this because I've yet to hear an Aussie call them on their bull so, if you're out there stand for whats right.
Your arguement is extremely poor.
Child abuse has nothing to do with homosexuality. Blaming the gay community for priests abusing boys is like blaming the heterosexual community for priests abusing girls.
Child abuse is child abuse. Period.
The systemic cover up ordered by senior church officials is as much an issue as the abuse itself. Mr Fry's whole argument centers around the fact that the institution that is the catholic chruch now embodies many of the characteristics it was originally against.
His summary is simple: What would Jesus say of the money, the power, the corruption? Did Jesus collect gold and art or did he help those in need. The Catholic church has lost its way, and the way was lost a long time ago.
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