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Where Is The Gay 'Heart?'

  1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
    Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago

    In my Country(Uganda), homosexuality has caused a stir. Parliament has tabled a private member's bill against homosexuality whict has led to the threatening of the Donor community to withdraw its aid to Uganda. In the public Court, three born-again priests are being charged of sodomising their folk!

    The question is, should aid be tied to homosexuality? If it is good in one part of the World should it therefore, infer that it is for the rest? Homosexuality is a curse in my society both the Biblical and Quranic teachings are against it.

    Scientifically, no one is born gay since there are no biological babies in a gay relationship. It is a disorientation, a vice that we should decry. It is not the people but the act that should be targeted.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      All I can say is you need a better education on this matter. You are way out of line!

      1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
        Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        "you need a better education on this"
        If I may agree with you, which dep't should I be better educated. I know I lack hands-on on so many things.........

        1. mega1 profile image80
          mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I am pretty sure that both the bible and the quran are new in your society and the original people in Uganda probably didn't think that way - it may be that both those books are more primitive than the original society that existed there.  I have no idea what it matters whether people are sexually oriented toward people of their own sex - I have never understood people's homophobia even when it is attached to their religions.  The arguement that homosexuals don't produce offspring and therefore are against god, is just silly - lots of straight couples don't produce offspring.

          1. Greek One profile image78
            Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            and don't forget the very ugly people who don't reproduce either!

            1. profile image0
              redoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              lol

            2. mega1 profile image80
              mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              oh, yes, and then remember some of the ugly, ignorant, fascists who do reproduce!

              1. Greek One profile image78
                Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                yeah.. they make some good movies though

                1. mega1 profile image80
                  mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  they do?

                  1. Greek One profile image78
                    Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    oh yeah.. lots of chains and dominatrix stuff

          2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
            Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            mega1, I did not say that having no children was against God. I said that, logically we can not have "born gay babies" since there can never be biological babies out of a gay relationship. I stand to be corrected.

            1. Greek One profile image78
              Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              i would like to ask again what is your position on oral sex and masterbation?  jail term or not?

              1. mega1 profile image80
                mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                you're still trying to get a direct answer from this guy?   not going to happen - he just is gay-curious and possibly wants to try a little - otherwise, why?

                1. Greek One profile image78
                  Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  you think HE is asking me out then???

                  1. mega1 profile image80
                    mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I think he is LITERALLY looking for a gay HEART (for ritualistic purposes!)  so careful!  he may think that you're gay just because you like sodomy so much!

                  2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                    Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Asking who out? i would rather die in prison; solitary confinement!!!

            2. mega1 profile image80
              mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              your reasoning is very odd -  so where do you think gay people come from?  they are aliens perhaps?   Straight people very often have gay children - also there are some gays who reproduce with surrogates or artificial insemination.  The thing is that no one can say WHY many gay people are born gay, they just are!  People have researched the heck out of this subject and can't figure out why or how gay people are made, but accept that quite young children demonstrate gay characteristics.

              You really do need an education on this subject and I can't figure why you spend your time chatting about it here, when you could be getting that education -  unless you are trying to make male friends?  in which case . . . well can't help drawing some conclusions about that!  There are a number of gay male chat sites which would be happy to give you all the answers you need.

              1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You sound like someone I know! well you talk of surrogates, I believe this is a new phenomenon, how have they carried on from medieval times to present? I believe that gayism is a social disorder that has nothing to do with genetics.

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  IN THAT CASE YOU COULD TAKE THE ADVICE OFFERED HERE AND EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THE MATTER. smile

                2. kerryg profile image87
                  kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  By that logic people who are infertile should not be allowed to have sexual relationships, and neither should post-menopause women. Are you going to start executing your grandmothers for having sex with your grandfather when he could be spreading his seed to younger, fertile women? I mean, what a waste of sperm!

                  1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                    Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    By this logig "infertile" remains a reproductive system disorder!

                3. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Others understand that it is evangelical Christianity at work, which is probably the social disorder you refer. smile

        2. Obscurely Diverse profile image59
          Obscurely Diverseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well, for starters, you can start with science and work your way up.  wink

    2. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No, aid shouldn't be tied to homosexuality.
      The homosexual agenda shouldn't be given an ear in the political arena, period.   Apparently the tentacles of that perversion are even creating havoc in Uganda.

      1. mega1 profile image80
        mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        yep, the havoc, it appears, is being created by people like you who don't like homosexuals! ! !

    3. profile image0
      LegendaryHeroposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      According to that logic, no one should be born infertile.

      1. Rod Marsden profile image79
        Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So legendaryHero the answer might be to create sperm banks...Hey! wait a minute! isn't the world overpopulated? I do believe it is.

        1. profile image0
          LegendaryHeroposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Uh...what?

    4. Beelzedad profile image60
      Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps it is the Biblical and Quranic teachings that are the real curse in your society. wink

      1. Shadesbreath profile image89
        Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        DING!

        1. Rod Marsden profile image79
          Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hey let's be kind Beelzedad and Shadesbreath...Let us say instead that certain interpretations of the bible and Koran are the real curse on society.

    5. kerryg profile image87
      kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, I think countries that execute people for homosexuality should get MORE aid, sent directly to sex education programs! Most homosexuals are born, not made. Scientists believe that in the majority of cases, homosexuality is caused by a combination of genetic and hormonal factors. Executing people for being born homosexual is like executing people for being born black.

      Anyway, what happens behind closed doors between two consenting adults should be nobody's business but their own. They're not hurting you, so why are you hurting them?

      Pedophilia obviously is harmful to others, but pedophilia is actually a completely separate sexual orientation and has nothing to do with homosexuality (or heterosexuality, for that matter, if the victims are young girls). I wrote a hub on the issue awhile back, you might find it educational:

      http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-it-safe-to-l … homosexual

    6. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      International Aide is a privilege often tied to social, political or individual agenda. If those offenses defy the purpose or social structure of that nation (in this case Uganda) than yes, aide will be effected, since it appears to be a lawful offense as well as a moral offense.

      I would gather if more than 1/2 the International community frowns on those unlawful sexual acts than that aide is most definitely going to be effected, since it is not just a religious offense, but a civil one.

      Interesting indeed.

      1. Greek One profile image78
        Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        hmmm  and if a country bans women from going to school.. does that make that prohibition legitimate just because they passed a law?

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Laws define the terms/conditions of countries.
          Be it anything from public education to sexual behavior, the International Community must abide first by those countries presets and then the global response to those presets, when distributing assistance.

          legitimize - prohibition is a juxtaposition, imo.

          1. Greek One profile image78
            Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I don't want to put words into your mouth, but are you saying that any law that any state passes should be respected by the international community?

    7. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What is the punishment in Uganda for being homosexual?  Is it just for being homosexual or for being openly homosexual and promoting that agenda?
      Or what is the proposed punishment that the Parliament is considering in its proposed bill?

      And how does it compare to the laws on other things?  What's the punishment for stealing, etc.?

      ..Guess I should also go try to research Uganda's legal system...

      1. kerryg profile image87
        kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Currently, homosexuality is illegal in Uganda and punishable by up to 14 years in prison. A bill was introduced last year proposing to increase the punishment to life imprisonment or death.

        Homosexuals can be arrested for having same-sex relationships, performing same-sex sexual activity in public or in private, or "attempting" to do either of the former two.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Uganda

    8. mega1 profile image80
      mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Why did you wish to discuss the homosexuality issue and not the issue of Ugandan child sacrifice, definitely a more important issue?  Can you tell us whether the child sacrifices are really happening in large numbers, or just a few?  And would you say that they are condoned by the majority there? 

      did you read my posts about homosexuality?

      are you interested in responding to women who join your discussion, or only interested in talking to other men?  because that's how it appears - that you ignore females who post comments here.

      perhaps you really feel that women should remain "subserviant" and not speak in the company of men?

      1. Greek One profile image78
        Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        subservient women, eh???   hmmmmmmmmm maybe it's time for me to visit Uganda!

        .. although I do hear sodomy is running rampant over there

        1. mega1 profile image80
          mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I don't suppose you believe everything you hear.

          It sure gets our attention, doesn't it?  any mention of homosexuals and I'm johnny on the spot!  heh heh  wonder if there's some REASON for that?

          1. Greek One profile image78
            Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            are you asking me out??

            1. mega1 profile image80
              mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I missed this question earlier  - out? where the heck would we go?  to another site?

              1. Greek One profile image78
                Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I thought we would head on over to Uganda and see if we can get get outselves a 7 year prison term smile

                1. mega1 profile image80
                  mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  gee, never tried sodomy!  why go so far?  I know I could look up Rajab once we got there and he would be able to guide us to the sodomy clubs - but I'm a woman, so . . .

                  1. Greek One profile image78
                    Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm sure we could find a couple of places of interest to explore lol

                    http://fuzzybuzz.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/head_up_your_ass.jpg

        2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
          Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I will make it my chore to guide you, Greek one! You are welcome any time!

      2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
        Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I do try to reason with everyone. With the masks on, it becomes hard to know who is a woman and not. But to answer your question about child sacrifice, yes they happen and they are loud.

        As to why I decided to discuss the question of homosexuality and not child sacrice? I was taken aback on how the civilised World neglected real and pressing issues to decide and tie aid to homosexuality. Before my post I thought that it could be an administration issue that lacked the bearing of the entire society. So my post was intended have an insight of what the common man thought.

        Well, to have respect for humanity and other beings around him. I donot disrespect homosexuals but I strongly condemn the act. I have said this before

        1. Obscure Divine profile image60
          Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Do you condemn DNA, free will, and personal choice, as well?  What if someone doesn't like pork?  Should they condemn the pork eaters?  What if someone is vegetarian?  Should they condemn the omnivorous beings?
          This is absurd.  Most of the "homosexuals" are born that way; plain & simple.  So, you condemn natural life?  The animal kingdom dictates such acts; they don't mind or condemn a bit. 
          By the way, I'm unbiased and also heterosexual, but I'm not going to act a fool and say that gays are intentionally going against the grain of society.  Get some education on the subject, and come back and holla at us......

        2. mega1 profile image80
          mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I only mentioned it because today there was an article in the local paper about the children sacrificed - they first I heard of it was from you in this discussion.  I think our news media is very slow in reporting the really important stuff - the media in our country manipulates the people and tries to lull them into thinking everything is really just as it should be in the world.  So we basically discuss quite openly the things we do know about - homosexuality has recently become an acceptable topic and it is used to cover over other really shocking things.  I am sorry that is so - but the citizens in this country are just as powerless as anywhere else, even though our image is one of power, individuals here are often ignorant of many, many things.

          Thanks for responding to my questions. I realize now you may not have known I am a woman - it just seemed to me that you were only responding to a couple men.

          I would like to join in a discussion of the real and pressing issues - I also wonder why Hilary Clinton spoke as she did?  Did she really not mention those other things that are happening in your country?  I know that human trafficing and female genital mutilation has been high on her list of humanitarian concerns in other African countries, she has spoken out about it.

        3. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, are you actually trying to convince people that is YOUR opinion and not that of evangelical Christians gunning for homosexuals in your country? wink

          1. kerryg profile image87
            kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, it is pretty suspicious that this draconic law was suddenly proposed a month after a bunch of American evangelicals held a conference there spreading lies about homosexuality.

  2. Greek One profile image78
    Greek Oneposted 7 years ago

    As a heterosexual male (and what a hetersexual male i am!), I think aid should be tied to the level of tolerance, liberty and personal freedom in a country.

    1. Rod Marsden profile image79
      Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you Greek One. On the women and education issue it is a known fact that as soon as you educate the women the quality of life in a province or a country tends to improve. You take education away from women and the reverse seems to happen. I wonder why?

      Bothering with victim less crimes tends to get a society nowhere. Promoting education and good health for everyone seems to be a better goal.

  3. AEvans profile image70
    AEvansposted 7 years ago

    It has been proven scientifically that there are people who are born Gay or Lesbian for that matter, research it on the Internet. Here is one link http://www.avert.org/being-gay.htm research has been done. In our Country the majority of U.S. citizens do not pass judgment on those who are Gay. Honestly I believe that your Country needs to study more instead of passing judgement on others, get the facts and then make the determination. smile

  4. Peter Hoggan profile image86
    Peter Hogganposted 7 years ago

    What a terrible ambassador for your country and its people you are. Do you believe that spouting intolerance will in any way garner support for your sad point of view especially when some of the people you are persecuting may be needy recipients? Personally I believe aid should be given where needed without conditions, but with people like you around its hard believe that everyone who needs aid would receive it.

  5. Shadesbreath profile image89
    Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago

    What if they tied aid given to a country to the number of stupid statements its people made?

    1. Greek One profile image78
      Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I can get behind that!!

  6. Rod Marsden profile image79
    Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago

    Aid shouldn't be conditional in that way. Having said that homosexuality seems to be a natural thing. You find it among animals and you find it among humans. 

    Various societies in the west have tried to wipe it out without success. Nowadays the west are more accepting of gays because it seems to be the way forward.

    1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
      Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Rod, don't you think it is defeatist to just let an act go on because the actors are persistent? In this part of the World some people find a delicacy in the dead! should we just look-on because it has been ongoing for generations? I think we still need a moral World were 'right and wrong' should be considered.

      1. mega1 profile image80
        mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If your country passed a law that said it was ok for your countrymen to eat the dead, then I'm sure my country's leaders would withhold aide and try to influence you to stop eating the dead! 

        And in our own country we have "humanitarian" laws that give equal rights and treatment to people no matter what their sexual orientation, their religion, their race, their religion - it is what we consider to be the best way to exercise our freedom as a people by extending it to all who live in our nation.   When we aide other countries we try to influence them to adopt our humanitarian policies by offering or withholding monetary aide.  I think we have a right to do so.  It has been shown to help get rights for some who have suffered.  It is high on our list of priorities to help gay people gain their rights as human beings and to escape the persecution for being gay that goes on in many lands, not just Uganda. And I think it is good that we do this, even though there is a loud minority in the U.S. who think, because of their religion, that gays are an abomination and should be "re-educated".  I believe they are ignorant to think that.

        On the other hand, we have often tried to sell other nations on our "cultural" choices  - the way we dress, speak, eat, purchase incredible amounts of unnecessary STUFF, and the words we use, even the way we sing and make music.  We have tried to make other cultures adopt our attitudes about many things that aren't involved in human rights.  In the past we have actually believed that our "mission" was to "convert" other nations to become more like us, as if we were the only enlightened people in the world!  Now we know better, most of the time.  We are only recently gaining an appreciation for the diversity and beauty of other cultures and people and the way they live and the many things other people know that we haven't learned yet.  We have only recently begun to see that we have a lot to learn from others in the areas of human relations and how to keep peace, how to live ecologically and how to treat the other living things on the planet.  So I believe that what we need to encourage is cultural exchange that celebrates that unique culture that is Uganda = and if we can help make some people's lives there easier by bringing their rights to the attention of your leaders, that would be a great thing, don't you think so? 

        The funny thing is, I think it is probable that in Uganda gays had rights before English speaking people convinced your leaders that "God" didn't like people to be gay and that it was "unnatural".  It is ironic now, that we have changed our policy about gays and would now withhold aide because Uganda is mistreating gays the same way people in the U.S. did, and sometimes still do.

      2. Rod Marsden profile image79
        Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well there are acts where you don't have any victims. Where you don't have victims you shouldn't have crimes.

        The eating of the dead was persistent in the west right up until the 20th Century. Even then there were some acts of Cannibalism in the 20th Century mostly performed by madmen.

        In Ireland in the 19th Century there were many acts of cannibalism in the south in particular because the potato crops had failed and there was massive starvation. In India in the 19th Century there were also many acts of cannibalism for the same reason.

        In the 20th and 21st Centuries there are less acts of Cannibalism throughout the world because better ways to grow food and also to look after areas where there has been drought have developed. Nothing is perfect but education, care for the people and the environment and getting food to those in desperate need have meant less people eating people.

        I have heard about the eating of the dead being a delicacy in some parts of the world. I also know that you can get some horrific diseases from doing so. Eating the brain of a human for example can result in you getting an illness similar to mad cow disease. There are practical as well as moral reasons to get people not to eat the dead. Education has to be the answer. Not just the right or wrong card but also information on what might happen to the eaters of the dead if they persist in doing so. Cremation of the dead might also solve the problem.

        A moral world would be involved in the question of who is being harmed and how they are being harmed and why.

  7. kess profile image59
    kessposted 7 years ago

    Anything that functions outside of the purpose of it's creation, cannot be.

    So any man who do not have the knowledge of himself will function outside of his creation. Just cannot be, for he is already dead though he still lives.

    As with thieves and murderers is the same with homosexuals, they are in ignorant darkness and such they will do.

    If they come to the light and have a revelation of their true selves, they of their own accord will flee these things.

    But in this world there are those of light and those of darkness.

    1. Greek One profile image78
      Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      isn't marriage and monogamy a violation of the natural way?

      1. Obscure Divine profile image60
        Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Ain't that the damn truth!  By the way, I've said that many times...  Except,  I usually leave off the violation part.  Monogamy isn't natural...  Praise be the animal kingdom; oops, I meant Homo sapiens.  wink

        1. Greek One profile image78
          Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          i say it too (but not in front of my wife)

          1. Rod Marsden profile image79
            Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You are no doubt lucky to have a wife. That said not everyone who lives alone cares to do so and a lot of people would prefer only one partner in life anyway. If I find a good woman I am not going to stray no matter who says that's unnatural.

        2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
          Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Where does that leave homosexuality? Focus! Discuss homosexuality basing on its own merits; if there are merits!

          1. Rod Marsden profile image79
            Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It leaves the gays doing their own thing. It leaves a single bloke who wants a woman still single but hopeful. It also leaves a married man with a pretty wife a lucky SOB in my book.

            There is no merit in alienating and condemning a part of society that is always going to be there anyway.

            1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
              Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I do contend that there is everything to do in changing that society. The more reason you are reminded in church every Sunday about the acts of Jesus Christ.

              1. mega1 profile image80
                mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                once again, I ask you?  what is your real agenda?  just trying to make a friend with Rod?  You could easily get answers, real answers to your questions about homosexuals or about the child sacrifice issue.  You don't seem to really want those answers - you just want to repeat your baiting questions for some reason.  I give up - good luck with your studies!

                1. Rod Marsden profile image79
                  Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  mega1 I have friends. I have no idea what Rajab is trying to do except go around in circles.

                  My arguments are my own and I stick by them.

          2. Greek One profile image78
            Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            why are you focusing on homosexuality if there are so many real problems in your country?

            1. Rod Marsden profile image79
              Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It seems that it is easier to find a group to hate than to get constructive and deal with the real problems in reconstruction.

              1. Greek One profile image78
                Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                i really don't get why some people get so hung up on where people chose to put their tallywackers

                1. Rod Marsden profile image79
                  Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Three square meals a day, shelter, good schooling and plenty of jobs to go around seem to me to be far more important. Creating good communal spirit and showing others that you are making progress in your country also seem important. The west tends to give up on countries that flounder. Showing progress means the continuation of aid for as long as it is needed.

                  1. Greek One profile image78
                    Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    But how could we possibly give aid to counties that practice unnatural sexual acts!!?!?

                    (Excluding heterosexual oral sex of course, because you can get pregnant that way if your fulfatrigger is long enough)

                  2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                    Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Intelligent seems to me to be subjective here, it is entirely through which eye. How intelligent is it to deny a Country aid even when the people you seem to be fighting for are part of that society? The numerous hurdles we face, we face them as a Country including the gay community. So as gov't closes on them so are they left bare with no H.I.V anti-viral drugs, safe-water and education. In fighting for them you leave them in a more appaling situation than the one you intended to rectify, how intelligent!!!

              2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
                Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I still can't figure out how constructive and "reproductive" acts of homosexuality are?

                1. Greek One profile image78
                  Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  what's your position on oral sex?  Should we jail those who practice that?  How about masterbation?  7 years in jail??

    2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
      Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What do we do with those of Darkness who seem to have lots of money in this needy, hungry world?

      1. Rod Marsden profile image79
        Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe these people with lots of money can give some of it to the poor.

  8. mega1 profile image80
    mega1posted 7 years ago

    I am of light and darkness.  I know it may seem perverted, but can't help it!

  9. Rod Marsden profile image79
    Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago

    Well in Australia efforts were made in the first half of the 20th Century to get rid of gayness. Gays were rounded up and put in prison for what they did. Homosexuality was a crime. The only thing this seemed to do was to put more people in prison and allow a subculture to develop. It also meant that young people who weren't gay were pig ignorant of those that were gay. Learning that some people are keen on the same sex at age 14 or 15 when you are trying to work out how to date this or that girl isn't a good thing. At age 14 or 15 a guy doesn't want to know there are people out there geared differently to himself. There is then born a kind of hatred that might not have been there if he'd learned about them earlier.

    In any event the Nazis tried death camps to eliminate gays and in the 1950s and 1960s USA psychologists tried zapping them with electricity. Neither method was really successful.

    1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
      Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I am not that ignorant to think that some day we shall have a free-gay society, it is just like cannibalism and theft. We have had a generation wasted because of war by the LRA(Lord's Resistence Army) a 1,000 people lost their lives on a weekly basis and the U.S did nothing. There has been child sacrife, female genital mutilation and the U.S did not intervine. But when it came to gayism, Hillary Clinton spent a whole 45 minutes talking to the Ugandan President!

      For crying out loud, homosexuality is not an indigenous problem for there not more than 1,000 heads but it is being hyped by 'western' influences.

      1. Rod Marsden profile image79
        Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It sounds like rebuilding your country is the most important issue. Everything else can be put aside for now. Helping the surviving victims of war must go on.

        Homosexuality doesn't have to be a problem at all. They are in the minority in any society and always will be. In the final analysis they are only a problem if you really want them to be.

        You are right homosexuality isn't an indigenous problem though gays have probably always been there in your country even before the first white man turned up.  It really comes down to whether you want to beat the drum on this issue or move on and deal with things like shelter, medicine and three square meals a day for all your people.

        Yes the USA did nothing when it comes to war in your country. Maybe having them or wanting them to police the world is not such a great idea. In the present recovery from war and making your country a safe and happy place seems to be something that can be and should be done.

      2. kerryg profile image87
        kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Homosexuality is NOTHING like cannibalism or theft. Cannibalism and theft are crimes that have victims; homosexuality is an inborn sexual orientation, not a crime, and even if you DO consider it a crime, as you apparently do, it doesn't have any victims! The only people it affects are the people who engage in it, and as long as they are consenting adults, what business is it of yours what they do in bed?

        Anyway, isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? You criticize Hillary Clinton for ignoring the very real and very serious problems affecting your country to lecture Yuseveni about gay rights, but yet you and your countrymen are wasting time worrying about homosexuality - which, again, affects nobody but the people who engage in it - instead of working on things that will make real improvements in people's lives. You just listed three incredibly serious problems - war, child sacrifice, and FGM - affecting your country and not a single one of them was caused by gays, so why are you wasting national resources and killing yet more of your countrymen by demonizing homosexuals?

        1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
          Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Kerry, in a country were more than 50% of its National budget is being funded through grants, it matters a lot when the secretary of state of the U.S makes  it her business. We are a population of about 30m, and where is the logic in saving a 1,000 lives(I don't know whether their lives depend on it) and letting the rest suffer! Is that really helping or trying to butter your side of the bread?

          1. Rod Marsden profile image79
            Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Sorting out the gays from the heterosexuals so you only save the right people is going to be one mighty task. In both the USA and Australia there have been past incidents of gay men marrying lesbians to hide the fact from regular society that one was gay and the other lesbian. So looking for guys that are married or not married  and sorting out who is gay and who isn't that way probably won't work. In the end you might just have to save whoever you can whatever their sexual orientation.

            Kerryg is right in saying homosexuality is nothing like cannibalism just as feeding people is nothing like letting them starve.

            Work on good will with the west. Show the west your best game plan for getting your country back on its feet. Show the west how bright and intelligent you are. In this way I can guarantee you'll be doing the very best job possible in serving your country.

            Hate isn't going to get you too far. Believe me there is no place on earth where I can buy a loaf of bread with a sneer or a fish with a cruel and vindictive word.

          2. kerryg profile image87
            kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well, your countrymen probably should have thought of that before proposing such a hateful law.

            Now you have to choose between your ability to openly murder people for being different and your ability to make your country better for ALL its citizens. Please uphold my faith in humanity and choose the latter.

            By the way, Uganda has a population of more than 32 million people, and rates of homosexuality, when recorded at all, have been remarkably consistent throughout history and around the world as about 10% of the male population and 2-5% of the female. So actually, you've probably got closer to 1.7 million homosexuals in Uganda than 1000. If you really, genuinely want to murder another 1.7 million people after everything your country has already been through, I think you need to take a very serious look at your priorities.

            1. Rod Marsden profile image79
              Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Not My countrymen kerryg HIS countrymen. I think I might be on your side in this...

              I am not in favor of the murder of a thousand people let alone 1,7 million. Having said that I still say working out who is gay and who isn't will be mighty tough.

              I repeat:: Hate isn't going to get you or anyone too far. there's no place on earth where you can buy a loaf of bread with a sneer or a fish with cruel and vindictive words. Killing people who might have ideas on how to improve things also isn't likely to help much.

              1. kerryg profile image87
                kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Oops, did I click the wrong reply button? I intended to reply to him, sorry. I can tell you agree that enacting the death penalty for homosexuality is a pointless witchhunt and unconscionable violation of human rights.

                1. Rod Marsden profile image79
                  Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks kerryg. I tend to throw a little of what I know about history and society in general into my arguments. When something doesn't work it is maybe time to try something that does. In Australia we saw how pointless it was to toss gays into prison. It didn't change who they were. It is said that if you value freedom  and goodwill and expect it for yourself then you have to give same to others.

            2. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
              Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I have trouble with statistics because it is done by mathematicians, there is alot of estimations! How I bate that there has never been a gay survey carried out in my country to find out their numbers but judging on events are demostrations they have never been more than 20 to take it to the streets and majority of these claim to be "Right activitists and not gay per se. And no one is talking about murder, the maximum sentence for homosexuality is life-imprisonment (7yrs). And let me place a reminder here that we are talking about perverts who engage juveniles, people who should be recommended to the services of a psychiatrist in a rehab center.

              1. Greek One profile image78
                Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                If your attitude and those of your fellow citizens is that homosexuals deserve 7 year prison terms and are "perverts who engage juveniles, people who should be recommended to the services of a psychiatrist in a rehab center", then do you really think they would want to take the streets in protest??

                What about heterosexuals who molest children?  Should we ban heterosexuality because of these people?

              2. Obscure Divine profile image60
                Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You're not homophobic are you?  What's your main beef/problem against same-sex bunghole boppers?  Heterosexual males can also invade/pervade/penetrate and permeate the female anus with loving thrusts, so this must not be about rectifying a rectal issue?  No?

                1. Obscure Divine profile image60
                  Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Maybe I'm just being too anal about all of this...  yikes  LOL!  big_smile

                  1. Greek One profile image78
                    Greek Oneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    yeah.. i think something is up your arse

              3. kerryg profile image87
                kerrygposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                My estimate was very rough and based purely on average historical and contemporary rates of homosexuality. The BBC says the gay community in Uganda is estimated to be 500,000, but I don't know where they got the figure.

                However, do you really think that the low turnout at pro-gay rights rallies has NOTHING to do with the fact that homosexuality is illegal and anyone who demonstrated in favor of gay rights would be opening themselves up to possible arrest and imprisonment?



                The bill that was proposed last year carried a maximum sentence of death for the following cases:

                * pedophiles

                This one I am actually okay with - sickos! However, I would like to remind you that pedophilia and homosexuality are completely different things: http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-it-safe-to-l … homosexual

                * sexually active HIV positive gay men

                I wouldn't support the death penalty, but if they are having unprotected sex without telling their partners they are infected with HIV, they do deserve some punishment if they are aware of the fact themselves. However, the fact is that the overwhelming majority of HIV cases in Africa are believed to be transmitted through heterosexual sex, so you may be banning the wrong sexual orientation. tongue

                * "repeat offenders," i.e. homosexuals caught in same-sex sexual relationships and/or activity more than once, or caught attempting to enter a homosexual relationship or engage in homosexual activity more than once

                This is where the bill ceases to be reasonable, with qualifiers, and becomes legalized murder. Homosexuals should have the same right as everybody else to participate in relationships with those they love and engage in sexual activity with consenting adults. As I and many others have said, gays are overwhelmingly born, not made. Executing them simply for being born different is completely unconscionable.

              4. Rod Marsden profile image79
                Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Educating gays and getting them to take responsibility for their sex lives seems to me to be the real issue. you want to keep gays and AIDs apart?  It can be done but only through getting them to feel less like outcasts and more like part of the community in general.  The only people who really do take responsibility for their actions in society, any society are those who see themselves as part of that society. Someone who is treated like a criminal will act like a criminal and you can't get a criminal to take responsibility.

                AIDS in Africa is more widespread among the heterosexuals as are other forms of VD. Hence I would say that more wide spread education and follow ups on villages and towns where VD has hit would be the way to go.

  10. mega1 profile image80
    mega1posted 7 years ago

    It is so easy to get answers to your questions using research on the internet -  for example one article of the many on this subjet:

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News … omophobia/

    states the following:
    "On the eve of World AIDS Day, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton Monday made the strongest statement yet by an administration official that the United States will not tolerate efforts to criminalize homosexuality among countries that receive U.S. funding to combat HIV/AIDS.

    “Obviously, our efforts are hampered whenever discrimination or marginalization of certain populations results in less effective outreach and treatment. So we will work not only to ensure access for all who need it but also to combat discrimination more broadly,” she said during a press conference in which officials also announced that the XIX International AIDS Conference, set for 2012, will be held in United States — the first time the conference has been held here since 1990. “We have to stand against any efforts to marginalize and criminalize and penalize members of the LGBT community worldwide.”

    Specifically at issue is pending legislation in Uganda that would extend the punishment for engaging in gay sex to life imprisonment and introduce the death penalty for those who do so repeatedly or while HIV-positive — acts termed "aggravated homosexuality” within the bill."

    It makes sense to me that if Uganda is going to criminalize homosexuality to the extent that they will imprison and execute men for having gay sex while HIV positive - then our aid to be administered by that government is actually not going to reach the sexually active gays who might be spreading AIDS - it is an impass that must be worked out.  But if we should not condone the execution of HIV-positive males in Uganda by giving funds to Uganda for not only AIDS assistance but also other agriculture and health programs - as it says in this article.

  11. livelonger profile image88
    livelongerposted 7 years ago

    What I find amusing (and typically hypocritical among Christianists) is that in his profile he professes to support people's right to "live and let live", but his most recent hub is a jeremiad against gay people.

    What I'd like to suggest is that American Christianists join Rajab and other anti-homosexuality activists in Uganda (apparently a ruthlessly Christianist country), while we grant asylum to the gay people there who face either life imprisonment or death. A simple exchange.

    1. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think so Tim.
      I don't give up my country that easily.

      While Uganda is way too strict, the U.S. has become way too lenient.   
      Why don't YOU try Uganda?

  12. mega1 profile image80
    mega1posted 7 years ago

    or possibly its another African phish!  farewell, see you in sunnier climes!

    1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
      Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      mega1, I love America, Europe and the entire whole wide World! If youare a mother, now that I know you are a woman, punishing your child in an effort of teaching him whats wrong or right does not mean hate probably this is where we defer.

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This I agree with.

        1. mega1 profile image80
          mega1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          probably you would! - OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!  sick of em!

          1. profile image0
            Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Off with who's heads?
            I simply agreed that teaching a child the difference between right and wrong by exacting punishment for bad behavior isn't hatred, it's an act of love.

            ...Did I miss something that said Ugandan parents exact too strong a punishment for bad behavior or something?

            1. Hokey profile image61
              Hokeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Brenda.... You remind me of someone. Hitler.

              1. profile image0
                Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                And you remind me of someone too.
                I'll not say it.
                And your idol Obama is much more Hitlerish right now than I'll ever be.

                1. Hokey profile image61
                  Hokeyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  There you go again. I didnt vote for Obama.

                  1. profile image0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I didn't say you did.

                2. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  What in all hell has Obama to do with this thread? lol

                  1. profile image0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    He has a gay heart.
                    wink

  13. Rod Marsden profile image79
    Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago

    Paedophiles have been briefly mentioned in this hub making me wonder if the real issue with Rajab isn't the truck drivers I have heard about who have gotten it into their stupid heads that having sex with a virgin will cure them of AIDS and other forms of VD.

    The truck drivers I have heard about are predominantly heterosexual males who are infected with AIDS by female prostitutes and who have sex with under-aged girls to save themselves.

    This has nothing to do with gays or if gays are involved then the ones involved are just as dumb and as pathetic as the heterosexual males. You cannot cure any form of VD including AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. It is scientifically impossible. All you are likely to do is pass the disease on to someone who is innocent.

    A lot more education would end this awful practice. If a person who has condemned a child by giving them AIDS comes to trial I do believe a life sentence or even the penalty of death would be suitable. If this is what Rajab is arguing for in terms of a life sentence or execution then I am on his side. It has to do with protecting children and not about giving a fig concerning sexual orientation. In the west we do not defend those who harm children.

    1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
      Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you!

      "In the west we do not defend those who harm children"
      In the west you do not defend any harm, a part from when the harm has been inflicted on what you would likely to term as the 'evil of axis.' What I do not know is whether the World of 'the evil of exis' doesn't have children?

      1. Rod Marsden profile image79
        Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The whole axis of evil thing belongs to a former President of the USA.  I doubt if too many Americans right now believe in it though they might believe in stabilizing war ravaged countries and helping those who need help.

  14. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

    I agree with both posts.   What're the odds of that?! big_smile

    1. Rod Marsden profile image79
      Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know but I think we have lost Rajab...

      1. Rajab Nsubuga profile image60
        Rajab Nsubugaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you Rod, I am back! To tell you a little more on how our continent thinks; Jacob Zuma the South African President thought that washing his penis with water would stop him getting infected with the HIV virus, so its not only at the level of truck drivers.

        Turning back to the discussion, and I think am partly to blame for not directing the argument. My simple question was about, whether it was the best option for the U.S to withdraw its aid to Uganda basing on the anti-gay legislation and not whether the anti-gay law should be upheld. I certainly will disagree with some of the clauses within the bill, clauses implicating 'suspecting homosexuals.'

        However, on the whole I think, help you should because you can and not just because of your interests. As I pointed out earlier, there are bigger and more serious problems in this Country, I don't think any Ugandan would lose sleep over homosexuality.

  15. Rod Marsden profile image79
    Rod Marsdenposted 7 years ago

    I think most of the people here see gays as not the real problem and there is an issue the west has in any country singling out a portion of their population for ill-treatment based on really arbitrary considerations. We remember the Nazis outing Jews, Gypsies and some Christians. We remember what happened in Cambodia after the Vietnam War ended. If you take out one portion of your population why not other portions?

    We can all agree that those who do harm to children through some stupid superstition are bad news and need to be locked up because children are the future.

    We can all agree that affective medicine when it comes to AIDS and other diseases has to be made more available and for this you need the west.

    Best to just get on with getting the help you need.

 
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