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People Afraid to Enter the Religious Forums

  1. Pandoras Box profile image82
    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago

    They're afraid that if they voice their opinions they'll get slammed. What do you think?

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The pros or the cons?

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I see pros about it personally. But I'm trying to be nice.

        The only negative I see is....... None, really.

        Maybe someone can point some out. We'll see.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I meant those pro religion or those against.

          1. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, lol. Well, I've seen threads and posts from both believers and nonbelievers actually.

            People think we're too mean.

    2. alternate poet profile image78
      alternate poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There is a real war going on here - the fundamentalists who have lost all meaning in the face of science and now pray for their o-my-godden, a play on armageddon for them, necessary to point this out as many of them cannot read so well. It is a kind of global madness that in this age of communication and easily available knowledge they refuse to come out from under the bed.  It becomes a kind of duty to the future of mankind to drag them out - they understand this as they have been forcibly dragging others under the bed (into it in the case of catholic priests).

      The more discussion the better, a little more reasoned debate would be better than name calling but hey, it is more fun. big_smile

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Being reasonable in the discussion of religion. I think half of us do that, lol.

        I was still trying to think of cons, though.

        On the positive side of it, if some people are too timid to join the discussions then that probably means we have less half-cocked religious stuff to deal with. For instance I've noticed that we don't get alot of charismatics here. Ten years ago they were all over casual forums such as this one.

        On the other hand, if we -those trying to help limit the dangerous potential of religious beliefs- are to be successful in reaching out to people, I guess we need to reach out to as many of these people as possible.

        Also, if a person -a religious person- is too timid to enter the forums, that would seem to indicate that they're not all that strong in their faith. They may be exactly the type of people we're trying to reach.

        They're not actively the dangerous ones, but in their uncertainty they tend to support the dangerous ones. The few can't do too much damage on their own, without the many providing them with power.

        1. 0
          sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ....and the Advisary has spoken!yikes

          1. 0
            sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hey theres no foul here you don't believe in faries remember!smile

        2. 0
          Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          or maybe someone is so sure of their faith they dont need to argue it? I suppose some people are happy with thier beliefs, but also recognize other people have their own beliefs.   maybe...

          I personaly really enjoy finding out what other people belive in, and why. But as far as the religous forums go, all Ive learned is side A hates side B and they both go around yelling "your stupid." so I stay out mostly. Way too remenicsent of grade school...I know you are but what am I?

          1. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not the one saying it, I'm just trying to be fair and see if it's true and if there's anyway to change it and improve the reputation of the rel. forums so that they might be more welcoming to more people. Because if that is all you can get out of it, seeing nothing but the squabbling, then you certainly shouldn't waste your time, just as I don't waste my time on the silly drama that takes place in abundance outside of the rel. forums.

            I'm quite sure that the vast majority of people stay out of the rel. forums simply because they simply aren't interested in it, even all those religious people, and that's perfectly fine, normal and understandable.

            I'm just responding to the recent complaints, and trying to figure it out. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

      2. Valerie F profile image61
        Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Making criminal accusations against an entire group of people is hardly conducive to reasonable debate.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Neither are overly sensitive participants. I mean you gotta admit, there have been an awful lot of catholic priests involved, and this is just what we know about.

          What do you think is going to happen to a group of people when their natural and healthy sexual urges are repressed.

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            they will enter politics?

            1. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              The other thing.. But good one, as always.

      3. terced ojos profile image71
        terced ojosposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOL...well I imagine that I happen to string together a few cogent arguments in between my superstitious rants about Jesus Christ. Whom one man in particular fancies calling "the sky fairy"...I thought his description of the person of Jesus Christ amusing.

        You will hear a great many Christians say they don't believe in religion but rather they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

        Mostly Christians will not really enter agnostic or atheist forums because they are instructed in the bible not to argue with people with who reject the person of Jesus Christ.

        I'm never offended by people who don't agree with my belief in Jesus Christ or who think I'm some mentally weak juvenile who needs something to believe in.  I've heard it all.

        Usually when someone rants about a disbelief in God or they make disparaging remarks about a particular religion; it doesn't make any sense to engage that person about it. I mean if you patently disagree with someone about any topic it doesn't make sense to try and "dialogue" with them.

        Mostly negative comments about religion are used to bait unwitting believers into some inane conversation about what they believe.

        I don't attack people for their lack of belief; to me it's just repugnant to do that.

        Nor do I entertain people with my belief in God who absolutely reject what I say or believe. It is generally a waste of time and energy.

        I will attempt to answer any question about my belief in God as openly and honestly as I can for anyone who wants to really know why I believe what I believe. I give the same respect to all people regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

        1. 0
          china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          good for you - so why answer in this thread?

          1. terced ojos profile image71
            terced ojosposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Why not answer in this thread?

            1. 0
              china manposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I don't attack people for their lack of belief; to me it's just repugnant to do that.

              But you are attacking earnest who believes in a perfectly good superior being in his skyfairy.   And this thread is clearly about people attacking each others religion or lack of.

              1. terced ojos profile image71
                terced ojosposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I've never attacked Earnest or anyone else for their lack of belief.

                Earnest is an atheist and he refers to Jesus as the "skyfairy." Which is sarcasm and condensencion on Earnest's part for people who believe in Jesus. Earnest doesn't believe in the "skyfairy" as his personal deity.

                I think his description of Jesus is amusing. I've said so on one of my hubs. I've never attacked him for his description.

                The context of what I said was not an attack on Earnest.  You remind me of Sean Hannity on Fox News.

                You take comments out of context and attack people with them....LOL...

                Is this the 2nd part  where you reply with something else meant to bait me into becoming defensive about Jesus or the "skyfairy"......LOL...

                1. 61
                  matthew lawes lanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. Obscure Divine profile image61
                    Obscure Divineposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    So what?  Let me guess:  You believe in "names & titles"???  LOL!

          2. 0
            kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            big_smile

      4. Cedar Cove Farm profile image62
        Cedar Cove Farmposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And yet, you speak in such demeaning terms.  This is not what brings about meaningful debate, my friend.

    3. goldenpath profile image80
      goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Been there, done that, don't care.  I have a firm foundation and in the end that's what matters.  All else is dust at the mercy of the wind and various tides.  It's my job to kindly extend my feelings to various questions.  People can accept or reject it.  There's no damnation involved in that.  It's called dialogue.  What people don't like and are turned off from is being attacked, belittled and condescended to from those who think they are full of crap or don't share a half way common view.  In my view either be respectful on the forums or spend more time putting together hubs.

      Either way doesn't really matter.  I've learned that many people thrive off discontent on the forums and that's a shame.  Civility can be so easily gained yet so carelessly lost.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Just keep in mind GP that accusing people of being an agent of the "Adversary", religious persecutors, etc etc also qualifies as attacking, belittling and condescending. Not, I will add, that I have seen any such attacks from you in the recent past.

        1. goldenpath profile image80
          goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you, and I might add, you have never seen me attack.  Many misunderstand my nature to stand firm in my feelings, beliefs and faith as a frontal attack, but I have never struck out at anyone for their own beliefs or faith.  Hope all is well on your side of the state. smile

          1. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes you have, lol. Nice try. But we've been there, done that, I'll drop it if you will.

            Not full frontal attacks, generally speaking, I'll grant you that, but a whole lot of ..
            Nevermind. I won't point it out, let's drop it. Whatever.

            I don't live in Utah. Or anywhere near there. I think you're confusing me with someone else.

    4. 0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No,slam away I say big_smile

    5. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think that's true, which is a bit sad - but then, participating in the religious forums isn't part of the mainstream activity of Hubbing, so the solution is simple - don't go there.   

      What I think is sadder is that some newbies are afraid to enter the forums at all, because the vicious posts in the Religious and Political forums dominates the "latest posts" listing, and gives the impression the whole place is like that.

      1. wyanjen profile image86
        wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It's a good point Marisa, but at the same time...

        You don't see any negativity to speak of in the knowledge exchange, EHM, or even the sandpit.
        I think it's pretty clear that religion and politics are a contentious, but the rest of the forums are very positive. I think a newbie would poke around enough to realize that pretty quick.
        smile

      2. Lisa HW profile image83
        Lisa HWposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I generally stay out of both of them, just because they irk the heck out of me.  There's no point going there and being aggravated, because it isn't as if there's a whole lot reasonable debate going on in either.  I'm not "afraid".  I just can't be bothered.    I either want a "regular" discussion, silliness, or solid information about HubPages stuff - none of which can be found in either the religious or politics forums.

        You're right, though - the forums are usually a pretty entertaining thing if someone stays out of those two.  New people shouldn't be turned off by what goes on in those.

        1. EmpressFelicity profile image84
          EmpressFelicityposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          Yes to everything you've said here, although I like to debate politics every now and then.  Provided it's with people who actually respond to what I say rather than going in for knee jerk ad hominems.  Both political "sides" are equally guilty of this, although there are also a few reasonable people at most points of the political spectrum who are capable of a proper debate.

    6. rebekahELLE profile image90
      rebekahELLEposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      maybe some are afraid which is too bad because people should be able to post freely, but when you have certain people trolling through these forums to incite and inflame others for their beliefs, who wants to be a part of that? I just don't want to waste time in there.. I hardly enter the religious forum, but at times I do leave a comment but hardly ever enter a 'discussion.'  isn't there a saying about 'a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.'? 

      btw, happy monday. smile

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, that's true. There are a couple people who I guess can be unnecessarily mean about things. A few times I have flinched at hearing things people say, or seeing what they write I should say. It's possible as well that I'm just not sensitive to it most of the time. Some people are jerks, this is a fact, so I don't really care when I see them getting a dose of their own medicine. And yes, for sure, I've administered the dosage myself a few times. I usually don't regret it.

        I guess I just hope that everybody realizes that the insults, slurs and flaming come from both sides, and probably fairly equally. After all, religionists have a long tradition of persecuting those who disagree with them.

        Thanks for your perspective. It's very rational.

        Happy Monday to you, too! I like your attitude! I learned a long time ago to find joy in everything you do, even the stuff you don't want to do, such as Mondays.   

        smile

      2. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh yeah, that was what I meant to respond to, the saying at the end of your post. So true. You cannot legislate or regulate other peoples' minds. Totally agree.

        That's why -I feel- discussion is necessary. I'm not out to destroy peoples' faith. I just would like people to understand the damage caused by extremism. Alot of good people are unintentionally supporting it without really being aware of what they're doing.

        People seldom have "aha" moments. It's a drip drip drip that gets them in the end. Ongoing open discussion is necessary, but I agree that a few might take it too far too often.

    7. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Who likes being mocked over their belief in a higher intelligence?

      At times this forum is really irritating with some seriously stupid people in it continuously posting crap. smile

    8. lorlie6 profile image83
      lorlie6posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't enter them because in my 53 years of life I've heard all of the arguments and am tired of the same old thing.
      I don't think my personal 'faith' is anyone's business.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Totally understandable. That's how I felt when I was done with religion. One day I packed up all my books and threw them in the yardsale/goodwill pile in the basement. I was done. That was a little less than ten years ago.

        And then I learned about politics! Lol, and the way things have been in this country lately..

    9. Misha profile image74
      Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think. tongue

      May be that's why I am not afraid of entering religious forums - when I am in the mood wink

      1. wyanjen profile image86
        wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Howdy Misha!!
        big_smile

        1. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Jen, I'm fine, how about you? smile

          1. wyanjen profile image86
            wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm real good.
            Happy to see your smiling face again.

            The forums have seemed... empty lately
            lol

            1. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I must have missed one heck of a good fight. Eh, probably a good thing.

      2. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Good way of putting it. smile

    10. MyWebs profile image83
      MyWebsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I always heard there are three topics you avoid in public: Religion, Politics and.... I forget the third one, maybe its sex. Avoid these topics because people have strong opinions and arguments and fights often are the end result.

      Mix in internet anonymity and sock puppet accounts and you only make it worse, no thank you. This is my very first post in the religion forums and most likely will also be my last.

      Hell just the other day a friend in real life actually called me a f'n moron to my face because he disagreed with a political statement I made about Obama. To me his response was way more offensive than anything I said even if you totally disagreed with me.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I love religion and politics! And sex!

        Funny, you couldn't remember the third as being sex, and I'd never even heard of the third. But sure enough I just typed "never discuss religion politics or sex" into google and search results were found, although the search bar only auto-filled for the first two.

        I think that's significant. Discussing sex used to be taboo. Now it's not. Politics are a free for all, and now we're breaking down the wall of supposed sanctity that formerly kept us from discussing religion.

        I think it's great!

    11. Daddy Paul profile image69
      Daddy Paulposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No I could care less what other people think. I write hubs that are non religious nature that benefit all regardless if you are a bishop or a non believer. There is simply no reason to get involved in such. I am here to make money and share what I know.

    12. BDazzler profile image83
      BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why do you assume fear as the issue? Mostly it's just no fun.

      I enjoy it for a bit, but for the most part, most people (on all sides of the issue) are just rehashing their same opinions ... It's not always fear, sometimes it's boredom.

      There's no difference between "My church is better than your church" and "My Not/Anti/Other Thing is better than your church".

      Or "My Church is better than your Not/Anti/Other Thing" ...

      No fear ... YAWN.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why do you assume I assume?

        It's beyond me why people read the OP and assume it's my position, but you're not the first person to come into this thread and misunderstand.

        1. BDazzler profile image83
          BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, yes, but why do you assume I assume you assume? Hmmmm... tongue

          1. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            tongue back at ya.

    13. ITSecurityAnalyst profile image59
      ITSecurityAnalystposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I guess so..

    14. aware profile image70
      awareposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I tend to agree and that's a problem .I dont rip down others ideas on gods. Haters of religion and god ideas are  just plain out mean . If i want to  hope in  what others might think a fairytale. Let me do so without attack . I  am positive that every   person  that has had the  nerve to call my ideas stupid . And  spout off at the mouth  on the net. would not have the nuts to chide my ideas to my face. # 1 reason being for that? They fear that in doing so might just cause me to  bash theirs in . And im not talking ideas in that case . im talking their face.
      If you wouldn't say something to someones face  . then best to keep your pie hole shut.  this un civil bully bullsht  on the web needs to stop .

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with your last line, in all of its forms, which go way beyond atheists on believers.

        In theory I have nothing against what you say, really, except for your (god-like) tendency towards irrational violence. Surely your parents taught you better than that, even if your god didn't. wink

        Don't get mad, I'm just pointing out the obvious, I already look like I'm 40, and I'm gonna look much worse if you bash my face in. You don't even mean that anyway.

        Yes, I do speak about these things with people face to face when an appropriate opportunity arises. It rarely does. Most people aren't up for religious discussions at all, least of all open religious discussions, and I assure you I have felt the 'wrath of god' (ostracism of christians) for sharing. 

        Generally when people discuss it on the web, they do so in open religious forums, WHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE TO DISCUSS IT. Duh. If anywhere in my vicinity they had such things live, I would certainly attend. They never do. Shoot my county barely has a democrat party, let alone open religious discussions.

        Bullying? Is that kinda like when I and my children drive past the churches and see the various threatening messages on their sign boards?

        Bullying, persecution, hating religion, attacking christians for their beliefs, these are all terms and phrases which seem to be highly over-used in reference to what really takes place in the religious forums.

        If people don't like open religious discussion, they shouldn't frequent open religious discussion forums.

        On the other hand, we could ALL be a little bit nicer in how we say things.

    15. Kimberly Bunch profile image60
      Kimberly Bunchposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I say 'so be it' but don't let it stop you from talking out. Be a spiritual warrior! Step out of the square box. It is time to act now!! Say your truth. You are called to do so.

      Blessings Always!
      wink

    16. J.R. Smith profile image60
      J.R. Smithposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      People may not be able to defend themselves spiritually. Religion always starts a fierce debate. More people have been killed for God than any other reason. It hits home. This isn't a random,fly-by-night subject. It requires a sort of investment. Maybe that's why people avoid it.

  2. RecoverToday profile image84
    RecoverTodayposted 6 years ago

    I can certainly see why one would be hesitant to enter the Religion & Beliefs forum due to the constant brow beating that occurs, especially if one has a sensitive nature. I wouldn't advise anyone who gets their feelings hurt easily to engage in a forum with the controversies surrounding this one. It's certainly become a battle ground but that's because of the sensitive nature of it.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It has always been a battleground, with many casualties on both sides.  Nothing new!

  3. elayne001 profile image46
    elayne001posted 6 years ago

    We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    The Articles of Faith
    of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,49 … -1,FF.html


    I suppose some people still have trouble with letting other people have their own agency.

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And how exactly do religious forums interfere with that?

    2. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not as long as their agency doesn't knock on other people's doors!

    3. Daniel Carter profile image89
      Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If this is the case, then why is there such a proselytizing army to convert others?
      I'm not arguing, I'm just asking an honest question.

      One of the things that seems to cause trouble in the forums and in life is proselytizing in its various forms. It feels to a lot of people like an attack, because their present beliefs are "wrong" and have to be changed or God isn't going to love them. We've seen this in the forums and in life.

      Hence, I think this is the basis for a lot of attacks in the forums, as well as in life.

  4. 0
    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago

    The moto here is if you don't believe in religion attack it! Did your Mom ever tell you,"If you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all." Oh I forgot, only Christian Mothers teach manners.yikes

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for your -as always- generally pointless comment.

      The word "attack" is so over-used.

      1. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I've been proven right again! I knew I would be.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, you "attacked" first. You're practically a professional instigator, sneako. You insult and insult and insult and then cry about those big meanies "attacking" your religious beliefs.

          Doesn't bother me, I just ignore stupidity.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I thought you were a Mormon!

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Me too. Good point. Guess that explains his own lack thereof.

      2. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        ......and?

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The other self proclaimed Christian cults do not recognize you as being "one of them."

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They're just jealous of the cool underwear.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And having those many young wives!  With the cool underwear, I might add!

              1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Glenn Beck is a Mormon.  That's really all you have to say isn't it?

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  It could even be too much!

                  1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    http://bigeyedeer.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/mormons.jpg

            2. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              Always keeping it sane, Ron, thank you.

          2. 0
            sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They wouldn't because they're a product of the Apostacy, that said, we are in agreement with the "Articles of Faith" which state we should never speak against anothers religion. I personally don't consider the "Left Gay Atheists of the Self Serving" an actual religion.

            As for Christianity we are the Restored Chruch of Jesus Christ and our church is organized as such. We have no payed clergy so our only agenda is to serve our fellow man. We are not a product of a Roman Emperor who decided he knew what was best for Christianity. The actual name of our church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints", we have been called "Mormons" because of the "Book of Mormon". It was used as an insult but we accepted it and are proud of it. As I pointed out the actual name of our church we clearly worship Jesus Christ as our name implies. Our devotion to the word of Christ clearly makes us Christians as the definition of Christians implies. smile

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You follow a notorious con man's plagiarized bible.  There is no scientific proof for the purported previous civilizations existing in America, despite the stories Smith made up.  Only Mormons consider themselves Christians.

              But call yourself Christian if it makes you happy, sneako.  The Jonestown folks did.

              1. 0
                sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Just remember you're just a mouthpiece for the father of all serpents, you are dressed appropriately for the occaison.big_smile

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  How did you know I was wearing my Mormon underwear?

                  1. 0
                    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I was referring to your potential for being a pair of boots. As far as the comments about underwear you wouldn't understand anyway thats why you think its an insult. We are actually proud of our heritage and what we believe and stand for. The fact that you are fixated on underwear demonstrates you really don't have anything of any substance to contribute.smile

              2. Pandoras Box profile image82
                Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                There's no proof of any sort, scientific or otherwise. Not a speck of even a suggestion of any real evidence, just empty unsupportable claims.

    3. 0
      cosetteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      roll

    4. rebekahELLE profile image90
      rebekahELLEposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      sneaks, did you really say that... come on. I've taught a lot of kids and some of the most polite were of non- christian parents.
      probably the most polite were the Muslim and Indian (India) children. their parents were also very polite.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is just another case of "Christians do this and Christians to that" which is a completely wrong generalization often touted by those who claim to be one.

        By the way, my mother has always claimed to be a Christian, so Sneako's point is as correct as it usually is!

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Mine too, lol. Too funny.

        2. 0
          sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Obviously you have taken great pride in pursuit of her opposite.wink

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I don't think pride is the correct word to use, sneako!  But my Mom is an open minded "Christian," the rarest of all believers in this part of the country.  We often discuss the scriptures compared to science and modern knowledge.

            She has much less trouble equating the Bible and science than your cult does.  Denial seems to be a necessary component in many religious beliefs.  Your cult is certainly no exception and is even less believable than the traditional cults.  But as they say, you are welcome to choose your own poison.

      2. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I would wager to say that in comparison across the board Christian homes produce more strong well grounded children than those that are not. There are always exceptions both ways but in general I believe thats a fair statement.smile

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I strongly doubt that. Atheists tend to be mostly educated people. It seems to me like just about every drug addict, alcoholic, and ignorant joe or jane are self-professed christians. You may question their level of commitment, nonetheless, they believe!

          1. livelonger profile image89
            livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree that more educated households tend to produce more well-adjusted offspring than less educated households. At least it seems that way to me.

            1. rebekahELLE profile image90
              rebekahELLEposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I think for the most part this is true, but not across the board.
              I've worked with kids from all backgrounds and have seen some truly amazing well adjusted children from less educated families.
              some of them realize they are already at somewhat of a disadvantage and the parents (often a single parent) seeks out other opportunities to raise their children. library hours, checking out books and videos from the library, using community resources, giving their kids responsibilities at a young age, educational nature walks, extended family, etc.

              and more educated families often spend more time with their children, taking them places, exposing them to different cultures and music, books, the arts. when children have more to broaden their minds, they tend to be more accepting and better adjusted to life. not always, but I have seen this.

              1. livelonger profile image89
                livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Agreed completely. Exceptions abound in both cases (less-educated parents with well-adjusted kids, and well-educated parents with maladjusted kids). But I think education - generally, but not always - helps parents realize the importance of spending time with their kids, and expanding their mental horizons.

          2. Valerie F profile image61
            Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Funny. Most of the atheists I know do way more drugs and alcohol than religious folks.

            As for Christians who struggle with addiction, that's a different matter- they're people who KNOW they need a savior.

    5. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Only religious mothers have and teach manners eh? Very nice to know. I will let all the non believers know this so they can go get religion and learn manners from it like threatening others with a sky fairy and ramming hate filled doctrine down kids throats!lol

  5. Rafini profile image82
    Rafiniposted 6 years ago

    Just an idea...but, why not have a forum for Evolution?  Then, maybe, the battles would be on their turf instead of the Religion forums?  lol
    then again, maybe not.  Maybe it would just give them duplicated battle grounds...

    1. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see the problem. Easy enough to defend Evolution anyway.

  6. RecoverToday profile image84
    RecoverTodayposted 6 years ago

    On the outside looking in, it appears the subliminal sarcasms aimed toward each other's view, which are sometimes not subliminal, are what creates the storm for the thunder. Then it becomes a full-fledged category 5 hurricane.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Some of the casualties were not mortally wounded.

    2. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There is, I admit, a fair amount of sarcasm on the religious boards. Sarcasm can be a very effective way of illustrating a point.

  7. Origin profile image59
    Originposted 6 years ago

    I usually stay away from religious topics, although I don't mind "what if" topics like, what if angels were actually aliens or something (not saying I believe that, just an example).

    The reason why I stay away from serious religious debates is because it usually just goes around and around, back and forth, with no one actually getting any ground. Why? Because it's hard to debate faith and beliefs, a person can say one belief and it will be countered by another belief, and so on, and so on. But on that note, more power to the people who like debating it.

  8. 0
    seasoningposted 6 years ago

    i am not afraid to enter religious forums, though wonder if it is just a waste of time, as after all we all have our own views about everything don't we?

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Origin and Seasoning, thanks for sharing your viewpoints.

  9. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

    It is somewhat frustrating to those who insist on facts and logic in the religious forums.  But as AP pointed out, it's fun to some!

    1. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Taking things too serious will shorten your life. So why do it?

  10. gamergirl profile image60
    gamergirlposted 6 years ago

    When the religious forum section first opened, I made a post with some ground rules that I asked people go by, first thing, in the hopes that there would be a section of the forum wherein people could discuss religious topics without it becoming a free for all flamefest.

    In the time since I made that post, hundreds of people have become involved in flame wars that have ranged from mild to California forest fires.

    It is disappointing, discouraging, and even so, the nature of forums on the Internet.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Religion with ground rules?  What were you thinking?

    2. wyanjen profile image86
      wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It is the nature of things. Religion draws out a lot of emotion.

      I will say, though, that I've seen plenty of threads where folks have asked for things to stay civil and for the most part that gets respected.

    3. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I wouldn't see anything wrong with HubPages establishing a "believers only" sub-forum. However, believers don't need nonbelievers to be unreasonable and HubPages isn't a church or a religious website.

      1. h.a.borcich profile image60
        h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this


        Hi Pandora,
          The religious forums on hubpages have been a mixed bag as I see it. The depth of conversation has been a disappointment as those civil discussions are rare. I lose interest when it denigrates to "...prove your psychotic sky fairy...". Depending on what trolls are in what moods - a civil discussion can be impossible. I admit I am not fond of seeing believers stoop to the same tactics.
            What I don't understand - is what is the benefit of being so caustic and insulting? When a nonbeliever responds with insults to what I post to another believer...I think the nonbeliever is a narcisstic fool and I have zero interest in anything else they might say.
        I am not afraid of the religious forums here, I just have little faith the civil discussions are likely smile Holly

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I know you're not afraid Holly.

          I just learned today -or maybe yesterday- of your current battle that makes all this seem totally irrelevent between me and you, and between you and anyone else who knows of it. To be clear, and avoid giving the wrong impression to others, and since you've made no secret of it I guess, I refer to your health, not to any struggle of faith.

          I try not to do what you have mentioned, insofar as it goes when two believers are affirming each other's faith or whatever. I try to be careful of what is an appropriate opportunity to speak up, and what is not. I think most others do too.

          Knowing of your situation does serve as a very important reminder of priorities in these forums. We never know what others whom we are interacting with might be going through.

          I wish you nothing but peace and happiness. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this.

        2. Jeff Berndt profile image89
          Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "I lose interest when it denigrates to "...prove your psychotic sky fairy..."."

          LOL, that kind of challenge is impossible to meet, and the scientists/atheists know it. But some theists insist on trying to "prove" the existence of God, thus playing right into their hands.

          Look, I'm a believer in both God and in science, and I see no contradiction. Science doesn't proclaim the non-existence of God, just that we haven't found evidence of God (and IMO we never will, until after death, or at Armageddon, which I'm not losing any sleep over, thanks).

          I can't prove the existence of God, and I'd never try. I know full well that my faith is not a rational belief. I'm okay with that. That's why it's called "faith," after all. If there were a way of proving God's existence, we'd call it "knowledge."

          Also, as a believer in science, I fully accept the fact that I may be wrong in my faith. I don't think I am, but I may be. Plenty of wicked smart people have been debating issues of faith for millennia, and we still haven't reached a universal concord. I'm not going to tell someone that they're following a false faith because their heresy doesn't match my heresy. That'd be pretty arrogant of me. At the same time, I expect the same courtesy from others. This does not preclude having a frank discussion about what we believe (or don't) and why. I'm open to learning more about other folks' faith, if only as a path to understanding them. But please don't try to blackmail me into your church with threats of hell. You don't decide who goes there, and it's pretty hubristic on your part to presume to do so.

          1. h.a.borcich profile image60
            h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Spot on with what I think of the religious forums.
            I have no desire to alter what I believe, nor have I ever tried to make anyone believe as or what I do. It just would be nice to chat with a believer who wants to chat without a nonbeliever hijacking and insulting. On those threads where a discussion of substance has occurred to ask/answer questions about others beliefs - it has been very interesting. I am sure of what I believe and am willing to share it if asked and I am also open to understanding how another thinks smile
            To Pandora...I appreciate your positive comments. My battle with advanced cancer is not something I have hidden, nor do I want to. It is in my face and I have to deal with it. Maybe I can help someone just by sharing it before the cancer wins. It has no doubt forced me to examine every aspect of my faith and I am firmly rooted therein. I certainly have no need to prove my beliefs to anyone, and frankly - I value every breath I have and refuse to waste any of it with certain nonbelievers who jump in demanding I "prove it". So I agree it would be nice to know I can exchange posts with another believer on a clearly labeled thread without the bull pucky smile
            I did see a post on this thread I would like to comment on too.
            It was about our "shiny domed guy" smile being offensive. I have not seen him be offensive. He does stand admirably firm in what he believes, and has been fearless (in my eyes) as he responds honestly to threads. If he is considered to be offensive because he believes in heaven and hell - then put me in the same boat. To consider us offensive for it makes no sense to me though.
              If you are free to believe what you want - then you are not subject to what we believe. For instance - there are plenty of people who believe the earth is overcrowded. Some are so convinced it is true that they automatically dispise people with more than one child. They have templated their belief onto everyone and can't get past it. If the nonbelievers here will hate those who believe in heaven and hell, even though they do not accept our beliefs, then they are the intolerant ones who can't see the people of faith as people. Not sure if I expressed that well, but I tried smile
            Holly

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Holly, with the utmost respect, if you wish, let us know how it is you hold onto faith in a god who won't save your life even though he could. How do you deal with that fact? smile

              1. h.a.borcich profile image60
                h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this


                I am not afraid to answer this question and I do appreciate the respectful way it is posed. However, my Aunt has flown in quite a distance and today is my time to visit with her so I will have to respond tonight. There are pretty flowers and great coffee waiting for me and I am looking forward to the visit smile
                I'll be back tonight! Holly

              2. h.a.borcich profile image60
                h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                This is where I am...
                I was diagnosed with advanced invasive bladder cancer -stage T3b with undetermined mets - 6 weeks after I married the man of my dreams. Within a few months of surviving a radical cysectomy and orthotopic neobladder surgery and 4 months of aggressive chemotherapy, they found spread to my bones. No one has survived metastatic invasive bladder cancer. I am on social security at 45 living what is left of my life. This is no joke.
                You want to know how I hold on to faith in a God who won't save my life even though I know He could. How do I deal with that?
                First off, God did not give me cancer. I do acknowledge God could have spared me the cancer, that He didn't chose to does not change that He is God.
                  God has saved my life. In this life I have been blessed with friends who care about me and who I care deeply about. I have been able to learn empathy, compassion and sacrificial love. Times of need taught me to give in times of plenty. He could have spared me pain in my life, but I can see what I would not have gained. He could spare me the cancer, but I would have missed so much more. The life I was leading was driven and consumed with what I thought was important. The cancer shattered my existence and brought me to truly living the rest of my earthly life. I am spending my time wisely and making sure to love my friends and family.
                Yes, I do believe in the Bible and heaven. I believe this earthly life is where we are to learn what really matters, to become who we are, to find our truths. When we do, we find God.   
                I believe the Bible to be the words of God, although I believe man has the capacity and propensity to corrupt absolutely. The Bible brought me to believe, but my personal experiences with God are what built my faith. If I had been the only one on this earth who needed a savior, I know Jesus would have walked Calvary just for me.
                This body I have would at some point have to die, the how and when is of no matter to me. That I have loved and been loved, helped and been helped, and found my answers is all that matters.
                Not sure if that is what you wanted to know, or if I have over simplified it. I am open to discuss what what I believe, but I will not respond to demands for proof or crude insults.
                God Bless is my most sincere expression of hope, Holly

                1. livelonger profile image89
                  livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm sorry to hear about your cancer, and glad that you have found solace nevertheless that gets you through the day.

                2. Pandoras Box profile image82
                  Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for sharing, Holly.

                3. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you, Holly. I appreciate your openness and candor. You'll get no demands for proof or crude insults from me. I do hope this is something you can beat and that science will hopefully find a cure. smile

            2. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You expressed it all perfectly, I think.

              I hope that when I said you didn't make any secret about it you didn't think I meant that in any way you should have. I just meant that normally speaking I wouldn't go around revealing other peoples' medical conditions without their express consent.

              I hope you are in remission. The reference I saw to it was in passing, and I don't want to probe. Either way my best wishes are with you. 

              Of course there are plenty of strictly religious forums on the web, but I understand that if you feel at home here and have friends here etc., it would probably be nice. I hope that when threads are posted requesting nonbelievers to stay out, that people are respectful and considerate of that.

          2. livelonger profile image89
            livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            This is one terrific post. I'm with you completely.

      2. Valerie F profile image61
        Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And nonbelievers don't need believers around to make arrogant and bigoted generalizations about how "unreasonable" believers are.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          What about your holy book that makes arrogant and bigoted generalizations about us non-believers? smile

          1. Valerie F profile image61
            Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If you really think you're better than "my holy book," prove it by avoiding such behavior.

            1. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So it's okay for religionists to hold arrogant and bigoted beliefs regarding EVERYBODY ELSE but not okay for us to point out how silly and damaging religions are?

              You're a perfect example, Val. You demand respect but give none and then cry persecution. Of course discussions will get heated and less than perfectly reasonable when religionists behave in such irrational ways.

              Oh but blame the atheists, right? Such a convenient scapegoat.

              1. Valerie F profile image61
                Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Real Christians don't believe we're any better than anyone else. What's so arrogant about the belief that we are sinners in need of forgiveness? And how do you know I give no respect? Has it occurred to you that calling all religion silly and damaging is itself bigoted and disrespectful and not at all conducive to civil discussion on religion?

                1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                  Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Val said: "Real Christians don't believe we're any better than anyone else."

                  ...and I just lolled.

                  1. KFlippin profile image60
                    KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    ....yes you did, quite unattractively. Unbridled arrogance in a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Catholic, or an Atheist or Agnostic....is generally quite unattractive.

      3. Jane Bovary profile image90
        Jane Bovaryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "I wouldn't see anything wrong with HubPages establishing a "believers only" sub-forum."

        I would. That would make it the only exclusive forum at the hub[as far as I know]. Why should any one group/ideology get that special privilege/protection?  How about a *knitters only* forum or a *those who've had an Alien experience only forum*?

        1. Jerami profile image77
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree completely; besides without someone disagreeing, we fall into the pit of self appreciation of our unbridled intellect.

              Help me  Help me ... I've fallen in and I can't get out.

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That's a great point. I stand totally corrected.

          Well there are plenty of religious sites with forums for believers only. They kick out trouble-makers like me! big_smile

  11. wyanjen profile image86
    wyanjenposted 6 years ago

    It is fun big_smile

    The forums have been tame lately IMO. There are a few missing trolls...

    Sneako - are you looking for trouble again?smile

    1. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Wyanjen! You know how I am!big_smile

      1. wyanjen profile image86
        wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        big_smile


        I missed something along the way. What's up with your underwear lol

        1. 0
          sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          We wear sacred garments once we recieve our Endowments. It's a sacred ceremony we participate in at our temples. They protect us and remind us of who we are and what we stand for.smile

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            http://cristal.inria.fr/~harley/ecdl3/pics/butthead.gif

            Huh huh,  you said endowment

            1. wyanjen profile image86
              wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol
              yep, that's where my mind went too.

              1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Mine too, I'm just a much slower typist than everybody else.

          2. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Funny way of putting it.

            1. 0
              sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Its a God thing you clearly wouldn't understand!big_smile

  12. yoshi97 profile image88
    yoshi97posted 6 years ago

    I don't think so many people would have a problem with religion if all religions could agree on one playbook.

    I mean, think about it ... What if you were watching a football game and they kept changing the rules because one referee believed this and another referee believed that? It would just be a big old mess and not worth spectating over.

    And then we will have someone come in and say, 'this is the only rule of God' and then some will disagree or agree with that new referee. With so many prophets with open mouths, I find them all to be as unreliable as used car salesmen.

    True wisdom is in what one can discover for themselves. If religion was meant for everyone then there would be only one codex and we would all willingly obey it. As this is not the case, we must assume religion to be a need, cultured to fit into what people are willing to believe or reject.

    Now here's the part that will strike everyone odd. I have *no* problem with people having beliefs or stating them. However, I do have a problem with people attempting to enforce those beliefs upon others.

    Believe what you will for yourself. Tell others what you believe. But don't expect them to fulfill your destiny by converting them to your beliefs.

    Those who chose to be prophets must explain why the word of God is not the same in all books, or suffer the damnation that their book could possibly be wrong. After all ... if the message is different in all religions then only one can be right, and as no one can be certain which one ... well ... subscribe at your own risk. smile

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Me neither, and me too.

    2. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I've been hiding and watching this thread. Have read every post.
      I like this one the ;  bestest   .
      I had always said that all the diffrent religions and denominations should focus on their commonalities..... Not so.

         They should examine their diffrences instead.
         Such as  tell me again why I'm going to Hell cause there was a piano in the corner of the building that I was Babtized in?
         Lets examine that.
      Tell me again why God would care if I gather in a building singing songs on Sunday instead of Saturday or thursday for that matter.
         God died for my sins of murder, adultery etc but I;m goin to hell for eating a "T" bone on Friday???

         We don't need to examin commonalities
         We need to examine our absurdities.
        Just maybe, if these were eleminated?
      Who knows what might happen????

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah. But you know how it is, Jerami, most people only wish to examine the absurdities in others' beliefs.

        I'll here confess two absurdities of generally perecived atheism. I think it's an absurdity to deny the existance of magic in the world. It might be better if we focused some on how we explain that and think it should be perceived. I don't think the world would be a better place if say... love is cast aside in favor of chemical reactions and survival instincts. It's more than that, even if only because we have made it more than that ourselves.

        True or not, people don't want to hear that. You can't expect people to go from warm fuzzies to clinically cold.

        Another absurdity of perceived atheism is that we need no moral guides. We certainly do, though of course they shouldn't be tied to fables of the unknown and everyone has to decide for themselves.

        Ah, one more absurdity. Churches serve no purpose. Religion I suspect, but fellowship is a good thing.

        Thanks Jerami for posting. I love that you never get your feathers all ruffled.

  13. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago
  14. goldenpath profile image80
    goldenpathposted 6 years ago

    Interesting how it always gets back to "Mormons."  Also interesting how no one wants to get the actual scoop on the faith through the official website lds.org, but rather go to such easy lengths to acquire other camel fodder elsewhere on the web.

    Great study and investigation hard at work! smile

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If Sneako was Catholic, we'd be making fun of them...

      Or maybe snake handlers....

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hey! No talking about my wife!  Is nothing sacred here?

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Pygmy rattler?

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            She's not that short!

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Don't I know it.

              1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hah again! Concede Randy, his comedic excellence is superior to your's.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  They don't have anacondas in Arizona, ya know!  I will never concede to the cupcake king!

                  1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    http://25.media.tumblr.com/OMG281byylul81fpV6Hk1N50o1_500.jpg

                  2. alternate poet profile image78
                    alternate poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Sorry Randy - bald shortie outsmooths you in humour all the way big_smile

          2. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hah! Good one.

    2. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, probably that only happened in this thread because your man there came in here and started ATTACKING us. What do you expect? If he'd behave civilly people wouldn't point out his hypocrisy.

      1. goldenpath profile image80
        goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        We are all agents unto ourselves.  I only defend my words and faith.

        Here's a good topic change.  Do you think my new picture makes me look fat?  I know I'm fat and need to do some serious slimming down.  Winter hibernation has gotten the best of me. sad

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Nonetheless you commented on it like there was no instigation.

          No, I think it makes you look younger. And possibly slimmer. I forget yer old one exactly.

  15. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

    Interesting how some choose to believe the explanations of a known con man and the information twisted by those who follow him instead of documented historical accounts.  As stated earlier, facts have no place in false belief systems.

    1. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So you say! Lets see some proof! Anything! Go ahead and take all the time you want I have all eternity!wink

    2. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Which makes it very difficult -or maybe I should say impossible- to engage them in thoroughly reasonable discussion. From my point of view, the discussions become even more unreasonable when we leave the believers to themselves, don't you think.

      (I'm sorry that sounds insulting, it isn't intended to insult, i have a point to it.)

      But there's an aspect of reasoning we could be forgetting about sometimes. Mind you, I'm not talking about you guys, or us, I'm talking mostly about me. I think best by writing. When I'm not sure what to think I ask for input. In forums I get to do both. So I started this thread because I am frustrated by the recent threads suggesting that we're too mean and scaring people away.

      I don't want to be mean, that's not me, and I don't want my interest in this to turn me into something I don't want to be. Sometimes it's necessary, such as in war, but in this case maybe it's just counter-productive.

      Again, I'm not talking about you guys. I don't think Ron's jokes are mean, they're just funny, and they ought to make people think sometimes. I don't think I've ever seen Poet, Wyanjen or Randy, etc be mean.

      What was I saying? Oh yeah. See that's why writing helps me think. I'm a scatter-brain and I easily forget everything I'm thinking if I don't get it written down.

      Isn't a part of being reasonable understanding other peoples' needs and emotions? Do we sometimes, not referring specifically to you guys, do I sometimes, let us say, or nonbelievers sometimes forget that we're dealing with real people?

      And I had another thought. It certainly isn't just nonbelievers, that is for like way sure. The people on the forums who claim loudly and repeatedly to be the most 'enlightened' are also among the rudest, ill-mannered folk around.

      But I don't care what they do. If they work against their own interests that's their problem.

      1. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        AH! Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder and so is guilt!smile

        1. wyanjen profile image86
          wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          http://rlv.zcache.com/stupid_is_as_stupid_does_bumper_sticker-p128891228826793864tmn6_210.jpg

          People really tend to paint this issue with a wide brush. Trolls are trolls, and some people get a kick out of a flame war.
          If it wasn't religion, we'd find something else to hate on each other about. tongue

          1. Rod Marsden profile image87
            Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Is there hate or just people having fun?

      2. Valerie F profile image61
        Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So Pandora, if you're not interested in being mean, perhaps it's reasonable to avoid speaking about believers as if we're babies who are incapable of being even remotely reasonable without atheist supervision.

        Go ahead and leave us to our own devices.

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Does that include sending us to burn for an eternity in hellfire or is that something you could speak to your god about? We have a vested interest in your beliefs so we can't just leave you to your devices if the device is our eternal damnation. smile

          1. livelonger profile image89
            livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            In all fairness, not all Christians believe this. And even if they do, who cares? I truly am not bothered for one second if someone else believes I'm going to be damned forever for not believing what they believe. smile

            1. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I've seen these beliefs damage people. You know, they figure there's something wrong with them.

              1. livelonger profile image89
                livelongerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No doubt. I pity their children, because they're too young to realize their parents are probably wrong. But again, this is restricted to the zealots who demand fealty to a dogma, which is not all Christians.

                1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                  Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  No it isn't. It's a societal thing.

                  Alot of people do not have the wherewithal to search things out for themselves.

              2. Jerami profile image77
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I started to say... everything in moderation ..
                Then it dawned on me ?? Maybe that is the problem.
                Ya caint believe in moderation ...
                We just gotta decide for ourselves.. Do I realy believe what I'm believing ..or ..
                Do I just "think" that I'm believing what somebody told me to believe?

          2. Valerie F profile image61
            Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If there is a literal Hell, I wouldn't be the one sending you there. I believe Heaven or Hell, people ultimately go where they really want to go.

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh goodness no. You'd burn us all at the stake if we let you.

  16. goldenpath profile image80
    goldenpathposted 6 years ago

    Well, I'm glad everyone's wearing underwear.  Without it life would be a bit "breezy."  I am ecstatic that we have established the wearing of underclothing here on this thread.  Chaulk another up for intelligent discussion.

    We are not the only one's with sacred clothing.  In fact most faiths have various forms of sacred clothing - even more than us.  So to keep pressing the matter of our "underwear" is self serving and expands the scope of ignorance that is prevalent with many.  I wear my sacred "underwear" as it is an outer expression of an inner commitment to follow the Lord Jesus Christ.  It also prevents the winter "breeze." smile

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Then you're wearing it wrong.

      1. goldenpath profile image80
        goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ho ho ho!  That's a real knee slapper!  Don't quit your day job because comedy may not be up your alley.  Keep trying though.  I have faith in your efforts of excellence in this field of expertise. smile

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No personal attacks please.  They make Jesus cry.

          1. goldenpath profile image80
            goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Good advice.  Now we both have something in common.  Let's both take it to heart and ponder a higher road of dialogue.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Not until you acknowledge my comedic excellence.

              1. goldenpath profile image80
                goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I give!  I humbly and sincerely prostrate myself before your comedic magnitude.  May your success bear you fruit worthy of kings and governments.  My apologies and hommage. smile

    2. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What? Underwear? We all have to wear them? A forum rule?!!!!

      (sneaks away quietly)

    3. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My underwear is white. I am a pure soul. It is fresh from the laundry so it even smells lemony fresh. I suppose I should get points for lemony freshness.

  17. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 6 years ago

    Why is everyone ganging up on the Mormon? Just leave the Presbyterians alone! lol

    1. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Mormons come to your door and try to convert you that's why they get picked on.

  18. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    hmmm...popped back in to see how the discussion was developing...and there is apparently concern about GP's skivies smile Hope it all works out!

    1. goldenpath profile image80
      goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hello borcich!  GP makes me sound too official and a target.  If everyone would like they can just refer to me as the short guy with a shiny dome. smile  That was a joke by the way!  I've earned every hair loss...

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh no, you've made the offer you can't retract it now.

        From this day forward you shall be known as The Balding Shorty. It'll help keep you humble. Character building and all that.

        EDIT: Changed my mind, Short Baldy, hah!

  19. goldenpath profile image80
    goldenpathposted 6 years ago

    I love dark chocolate!  smile

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Serious question.  Are you allowed to eat it?

      1. goldenpath profile image80
        goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sure, even though it can sometimes resemble the product of a sick dog in the park.  It is sweet and uplifting nonetheless! smile

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Doesn't it have caffeine?  I thought caffeine was a no no.

          1. goldenpath profile image80
            goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Good observation.  Yes, caffeine is not recommended for the body.  We try to avoid caffeinated products of such levels as to "unnaturally" increase the heart and metabolic rate.  Caffeinated drinks are among this category, however, chocolate is not.  Good observation though.  Part of our code of health is to avoid those things that resist the Spirit from fully entering and affecting the the body and spirit of the person.  True, chocolate is fattening but I'm far from perfect.  Thanks for reminding me of something to work on. smile

            1. Marisa Wright profile image93
              Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What Habee was saying is that chocolate has caffeine in it - quite a lot of caffeine, in fact.

              I know, because my ex had to give up all caffeine due to a stomach ulcer.   And that included coffee, tea, Coke and chocolate.

              If you're not allowed to consume caffeine, the only chocolate you can eat is the best quality Belgian and Swiss chocolate, which is made differently.  My ex made an absolute pig of himself when we were in Switzerland!

            2. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              All things in moderation. More or less.

  20. 0
    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago

    I'm not nearly as patient as GP but I've seen the enlightened go after him with a vengence when he was nothing but polite. So to protest your innocense only goes to prove you are truely lost and in need of guidence. GP and I are different people but we serve the same God and hold to the same beliefs. I work construction and listen to a load of garbage everyday so the secular crowd are no different than the uneducated laborers trying to expess themselves about something they know nothing about.smile

    1. wyanjen profile image86
      wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      are you sure you're talking about the secular crowd?

      'cuz you just described the average teabagger.

      1. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I fight back most of my Bretheren wouldn't.smile

    2. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I wouldn't worry about it too much, sneako.  Anyone who believes a great civilization once existed here without leaving any evidence whatsoever, can convince themselves of anything.  No amount of evidence to the contrary will have any meaning to those of your zany cult.

      Watch out when the priests offer you kool-aid though.  Even if it is sugar free kool-aid

      1. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think there is proof of civilized sociaties in America the Mississippian and Anazazi are a couple that come to mind and they are both well documented. Time to start developing an INFORMED opinion rather than just going the way of the uneducated laborers but, suit yourself.smile

        1. Randy Godwin profile image93
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There is ample evidence for past civilizations in America, but no shred of evidence anything Joseph Smith made up in the book of mormon about the mentioned civilization has ever come to light.

          Since the aforementioned Smith civilization was exterminated except for one individual, who hid the remains of the cities and technology.  What happened to the wheel?

          1. 0
            sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Randy you can manipulate facts to believe what you want its none of my buisness but, if you chose to insult my beliefs I will gladly point out your foolish hipocracy. If you can get past that we can always be opponents with friendship always in sight.smile

            1. Randy Godwin profile image93
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I really wish you no ill will, sneako.  But when a religious cult, and Mormonism is just that, decides to ignore historical facts because it doesn't jibe with their religious beliefs, it doesn't bode well for harmony.

              I think you are probably a good person without being a Mormon.  But this doesn't exclude you from being taken in by false information.  I would not cast doubt on any factual evidence to support your beliefs.  I have looked hard for evidence to support your religion, but there is none.

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well documented but having no link with mormonism's fabled past.

    3. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No idea to whom you are refering, and I don't really care either.

  21. goldenpath profile image80
    goldenpathposted 6 years ago

    Hey sneak!  I just got back last night from the San Diego Temple.  That place is huge and beautiful.  My niece was married and sealed therein.  I am back in Iowa now and am suffering palm tree withdrawals.  Oh my aching heart.... sad

    1. 0
      sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I've heard it is beautiful we had an Elder from there and it really sounds beautiful! What a great way to celebrate the union of those we love, that is truely romantic! Hey I've been busy replacing palms down here we lost to the freeze. I was visiting my son at his university this weekend he was in the schools performance of Arthur Millers "All My Son's". It was a very short visit because he's approaching finals. It's good to know your near!smile

      1. goldenpath profile image80
        goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Someday we'll hook up and chew the fat!  I'd love to move your records here. smile I'm always trying to get visitors to tell me their birthdays so I can transfer their records.  Nobody's biting yet though.  Crap!

        1. 0
          sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I would love to be apart of any Ward family you are apart of, Goodnight!smile

    2. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Iowa, I don't live there either.

  22. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 6 years ago

    I don't tread on anyone's beliefs, and I don't like for mine to be stepped on, either.

    Back to the chocolate thing: I had a good friend who was Mormon, and she couldn't consume caffeine. Chocolate has caffeine in it, right? I'm just curious.

  23. goldenpath profile image80
    goldenpathposted 6 years ago

    Hey sneaks!  Not sure if word has gotten to you but there have been some awesome discoveries on various islands relating to the shipbuilders from the Nephite nation.  It's all for naught though because the world will just dismiss any scientific evidence and claim it of some other origin.  That's alright though.  Keep firm to the foundation of faith and the winds and tempests will only serve to strengthen us in the end.

    Time to rest my weary belly.  Had a Stake meeting this evening.  Long trip to Council Bluffs. Night night... smile

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Provide a link, we'd all love to peruse it.

      1. 0
        sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't know you were that old.wink

  24. samboiam profile image61
    samboiamposted 6 years ago

    I am a Christian and my faith plays a big part in my life. I am hesitant to enter religious forums because I am embarassed by the way some Christians conduct themselves.

    I don't ask anyone to agree with me and I am perfectly fine with those who do not hold to my beliefs thinking I am crazy or wrong.

    What I can not stomach is the supremist attitude most Christians possess. If I was Jesus I would have left before most of us showed up as well.

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image89
      Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I wish there were a "like" button on the forums, 'cos I'd push it for this comment.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ya'll wouldn't trample other peoples' rights, or support the idiots who do. If most religionists were as reasonable, there'd be no need for dissent.

        Thanks for sharing your perspective.

        1. wyanjen profile image86
          wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It is refreshing, isn't it
          big_smile

          1. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Very much so, wish they were all like that.

            1. Jeff Berndt profile image89
              Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If more Christians were like that, there'd probably be more Christians.

              1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                "Had the doctrines of Jesus been preached always as pure as they came from His lips, the whole civilized world would now have been christian." -Thomas Jefferson

                Of course, not believing in Jesus' divinity himself, he meant it in the nonmiraculous sense of the word.

    2. alternate poet profile image78
      alternate poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Sambo - the issue is not a persons religion or beliefs so much as exactly what you point to - the combination of their religion with their political views.  The danger is well documented through history, if people justify their politics using their religion then there is little reason in both sides of them, they are blindly firing at the 'other' and must have a n other always in their sights.

      The modern world is too dangerous for that kind of redundant thinking, we have to make clear reasoned decisions. God-like powers are in the hands of less than god-like people, we can now smite from above, destroy cities and countries at an oily whim. I for one would prefer to see the keepers of those powers as intelligent reasoning people who do not try follow the rambling predictions of a book made from a few random old papers.

      Christians in Europe held back progress for a thousand years, in China the Buddhists did the same for a few hundred years - if religion was kept as a personal thing, the way you do, it would not harm society.

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Right on, brother.

    3. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Finally! A believer who can see that a good deal of the bad behavior comes from them!

      Oh but most of them sure love to make the 'damned godless atheist' the scapegoat -just as religionists have always done. If they were still allowed to, I'm sure they'd kill us to prevent us from talking. All in the name of a god of course.

      Thank you for commenting Sambo.

      1. alternate poet profile image78
        alternate poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi PB  you are in good form today, cut down on the coffee a bit or you will be worn out tomorrow big_smile

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I was supposed to stop in briefly, and then go sign up for a slew of bookmarking sites. (sigh) Eh well, working on a sunday isn't a sin, but it is a shame. Subconsciously I'm sure I started this thread just to avoid all that boring technical stuff. LOL.

    4. habee profile image91
      habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sam, this is how I feel, too!

  25. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

    Thanks for the laughs but gotta crash now.  Must rise early and catch a few rattlers for the local churches or their next services will be spoiled.

  26. Pandoras Box profile image82
    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago

    I'm out as well. If ya'll don't see me here for a few days it means I'm being productive. hmm

    1. wyanjen profile image86
      wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well then, go forth and produce.

      big_smile

      see you later

      1. Pandoras Box profile image82
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well so much for productivity. Here I am again!

        I'm just checking in, off to work in a few.

  27. Rod Marsden profile image87
    Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago

    It has been said by a number of writers in the past such as the Marque de Sade (probably not the best authority on the good life) that if Jesus were to return various Christian outfits that had done so well on establishing themselves as his representatives based on his previous teachings might well see themselves in trouble.

    Jesus was a peaceful type who showed extraordinary mercy and understanding for the time in which he lived. When people claim to be Christians but show no signs of mercy for others or attempts to understand others I take them to be frauds. Why not point this out? Why take things so seriously here anyway?

    And hey! I never said there were not good religious types around true to their beliefs. Of course there are and they deserve some respect.

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hey there Rod, how ya doin'?

      Good points, good post. Thanks for commenting.

      1. Rod Marsden profile image87
        Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Nice seeing you again too Pandoras Box. Glad you liked my post.

  28. AdeleCosgroveBray profile image90
    AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 6 years ago

    While any debate is based on opinion and belief, rather than on verifyable evidence, there will always be a conflict of views.

    "Never enter into dispute or argument with another. I never yet saw an instance of one of two disputants convincing the other by argument. I have seen many becoming rude and shooting one another."
    Thomas Jefferson.

    "It is not he who gains the exact point in dispute who scores most in controversy -- but he who has shown the better temper."
    Samuel Butler.

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "All men shall be free to profess, and by arguement to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion." -Thomas Jefferson

      1. Rod Marsden profile image87
        Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Good one PB.

  29. 0
    ralwusposted 6 years ago

    All these words, here and on every other thread have not broken one chain that binds one to bigotry or prejudice or belief or science and not one soul has been saved. IMHO big_smile

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You are right, Charlie!  It seems to be the old "exercise in futility" which never solves anything.  But we continue to try, nonetheless!

    2. 0
      Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think I got saved once...Im not sure it stuck tho.  lol

      1. 0
        ralwusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Were it here? maybe that's why. LOL

      2. Jeff Berndt profile image89
        Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I got invested, and I earn an average return of 6.2% per annum.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          LOL. Probably a wiser and more fruitful choice, even considering any possible risks.

    3. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ralwus there are such people as Christian scientists. There are such people as Christian scientists who believe the theory of evolution doesn't conflict with being a Christian.

      Don't see myself as a bigot or as someone who is prejudice when I talk about Jesus as compassionate and understanding. He dined with tax collectors. When the wine ran out at a wedding he turned water into wine. He stopped a woman from being stoned to death. He sound like an alright guy from these accounts.

      Be Christian but also be like Jesus. The results might surprise some.

      1. 0
        ralwusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I know these things as well, but my point is, what good has it done for either side here in the forum. A fabric torn away like the Veil of the Temple is all I have seen.

        1. Rod Marsden profile image87
          Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Opinions have been expressed and I do believe there have been the beginnings of friendship made. Sounds okay to me. Oh and there have been a few laughs expressed. No mountains moved. That might take some time.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The problem is those who wish to deny modern knowledge when it clashes with the ancient teachings.  I particularly dislike the Mormon beliefs which go far beyond any of the traditional cults teachings.

            I'm not saying the Mormons aren't good folks, but teaching fake history to their children doesn't bode well for the child's sense of reality.  At what point does teaching false religious doctrines become a bad thing?

            1. Rod Marsden profile image87
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Teaching untruth is always a bad thing. The price you might have to pay for religious freedom in your country is that you might have to let them do it to their own children.

              Maybe introducing 1984 by George Orwell to the Mormons might help.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No, this wouldn't work either, Rod.  They are only allowed to believe what their "priests" tell them to believe.  But as you point out, it's the price our country pays for religious freedom.

                Anyone can form a religion here or be ordained by a mail order ordination company.  This gives false credibility to an already incredible doctrine.

                1. Jerami profile image77
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, coppyrights have expired; we are allowed sell as many generic religions as the people will buy.

                    As the numbers increase and the quality of the generic brands decline, faith in the origional product is lost.

                2. Rod Marsden profile image87
                  Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  There is always a price to pay for freedom.

            2. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Excellent question. I wonder if people could agree on the answer. I'd particularly like to hear what the religious think about that.

              1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                When the marketers of the doctrine knock on my door.

                When this happens, I introduce them to the Church of my foot up your ass.  A few of the martyrs have even come back for seconds.  You've got to admire their mispalced tenacity.

          2. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Exactly! Drip drip drip. I think people outside of the rel. forums really don't see the good in it all through the push and shove.

            And hey, the drip can work both ways. To some extent.

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Exposing the man behind the curtain? LOL

          The conversation has changed, largely due to the internet. I'm sure someone will say something negative about that, but I am certain it's a good thing.

      2. Jeff Berndt profile image89
        Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        There's also Christian Science, which I was surprised to discover isn't all that keen on science. Confusing...
        http://christianscience.com/questions/a … n-science/

        1. Rod Marsden profile image87
          Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If we are talking Scientology then we are discussing pretty weird science indeed. Based on a SF novel created by Hubbard and a lark on Hubbard's part it just goes to show how foolish and easily taken in some people can be.

          Remember the Orange people? They were big in the '70s. Colorful but wackos nonetheless.

          1. Jeff Berndt profile image89
            Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No, Scientology is not Christian Science. I thought they were related, too, once upon a time.

            1. Rod Marsden profile image87
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Okay...Then they are another bunch of nut jobs...

    4. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oh I disagree. I know that they do help people to see things from new and different perspectives, but it's true that few people bother publically admitting it. There's no reason for them to do so.

      1. Rod Marsden profile image87
        Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Okay if they help people they're not nut jobs at all.

    5. habee profile image91
      habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That's why I don't argue religion, Charlie! How ya doin'?

  30. Williamjordan profile image61
    Williamjordanposted 6 years ago

    Where is the love this should be the place that all are welcome we been given a message of love,unity and faith.Those who reject still need our love loving a operson is not accpeting the way they live it's accpeting that they are still achild of God lost but with hope as long as they are breathing.Share the hope today not the mess remember Jesus came for sinners.

    1. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The love is still here. It just comes with a sense of humor. Sometimes you either laugh or you cry.

  31. 0
    sneakorocksolidposted 6 years ago

    A long hard look in the mirror should answer any question you, ron, randy or any of your ilk have about why people avoid these threads.wink

    1. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am one of the undead. I have no reflection!

  32. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I think that Christians sometimes get a bad rap.
    Everyone can see the faults of everyone else from a hundred yards away.  No one can see their own even when looking up close and in the mirror.
       Yes there are loud mouthed, obnoxious, overbearing Christians.
       The same can be said for other faiths and nonbelievers as well.

       The big diffrence is when a Christian does it they/we/I, add to the list of faults ... "Hypocracy".

       When people hide behind religion to do their dirty deeds??
     
       It's kinda like if someone hides behind me and shoots a police officer; am I guilty for Capital murder?????
       I think  YES   if I allow it to happen repediatly.

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think atheists get a bad rap, which has been perpetuated by the christians for two thousand years. Indeed, we continue to be persecuted by them.

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        funy how the mind works .. 
        My statement began with a wrong phrase.
        I didn't intend for it to sound that Christians were exclusively getting a bad rap.
        I apologise for starting the statement with what must have looked like a left hook. Unintentional I promise.

           Was there anything else in the post found offensive?

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, not at all, not even the first line. I don't agree with it really, but I didn't take offense. Just, you know, had to represent, lol.

          I got your point in the post, but I don't agree because christians claim to be holier than thou. Since they claim it, and their bible affirms it, the fact that they don't live it is fair fodder, I reckon. Though of course many do live it, or try to at any rate.

          No offense taken, Jerami, I've read your posts long enough to know that you do not endeavor to offend. You're one of the most even-tempered and tolerant people here.

          1. Rod Marsden profile image87
            Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with Pandoras Box. We can always do with more even tempered and tolerant people including Christians . I think she's right about you Jerami. You would be one of the good ones.

      2. Valerie F profile image61
        Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And return the favor with great enthusiasm, too.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Really! What rights of religionists have been threatened or impeded upon? What freedoms have been denied you? Who has been murdered by atheists due to their beliefs?

          Do tell all about how you've been persecuted. Oh yeah, I remember. You told me before. You have a difficult time finding a good cup of coffee in Salt Lake City. Well you can't blame that on atheists!

          The fact that if you enter an open religion discussion forum you may have to hear opinions about how silly and damaging your religion really is hardly counts as persecution. Also not real impressive is the fact that if you open a newspaper you'll read proof of it.

          1. Valerie F profile image61
            Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If you read a newspaper about ongoings in China or pick up a hostiry book abo9ut the Soviet Union, Vietnam, Cuba, et cetera, you'll find ample proof that atheisists as a group are not guiltless.. Calling religion silly is an insult. Calling religion damaging is an accusation. There are ways of saying you disagree with a religion without making any insults or accusations.

  33. andromida profile image76
    andromidaposted 6 years ago

    I take part in religious forums and the most interesting thing is the all try to write from their own point of view,not stick to any religious-most of all behave like all knowing-I think they are quite used to this kind of religious wisdom,fun and fantasy, many times i found that only one Muslim guy voluntarily answering everyone smile

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeh paarsurrey puts on a good show. I've seen a couple other muslims here. Not many though, yer right, and not often.

  34. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

    yes.. I fear entering some of the forums... i like to stay away from anger, confrontation and hostility (which is odd since I a agreed to get married)

    1. Obscure Divine profile image61
      Obscure Divineposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You badly need a divorce along with a couple "barely legal" teens for ya personal remedy...  Hmm, surely Zeus will approve of such conduct.  LOL!

    2. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Huh. I don't think you're ever offensive Greek One. I love your funny comments.

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        you see how mean Obscure Divine is to me, Pandoras Box!! sad

        1. Obscure Divine profile image61
          Obscure Divineposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I mean well...  big_smile

        2. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Indeed, that was quite a burden he offered you. wink

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            he suggested divorce, followed by fornication with not one, but TWO teenagers.

            DO I see like the kind of guy who would get divorced??

            1. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So skip the divorce, take "two", and call us in the morning, lol. I guarantee you'll feel better. Unless your wife kills you, that is.

              1. 0
                Justine76posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                haaahahaha! how is this skipping the divorce? I guess it only puts in second in the list rather then first.  smile

                1. Pandoras Box profile image82
                  Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah pretty much, lol.

  35. Christene profile image81
    Christeneposted 6 years ago

    I'm not afraid of the religious forum. I just don't see the point. It doesn't matter to me what other people believe, and what I believe isn't up for discussion.

    It's a personal thing, religion.

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      As it should be. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

  36. susanlang profile image60
    susanlangposted 6 years ago

    I'm not afraid of this forum, it's really quite interesting.

    1. Greek One profile image80
      Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I fear susanlang

      1. susanlang profile image60
        susanlangposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry you feel that way Greek One. But, I still love you!  Take care now smile

  37. blondepoet profile image80
    blondepoetposted 6 years ago

    I stay out of them as I lost my last set of boxing gloves. smile

  38. IntimatEvolution profile image81
    IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago

    You know, I'm one of those bad hubbers everyone is referring to in general.  And I don't know why I do that.  It is not like I do that in "real" life.  In real life, I'm passive and could really careless about how or what people believe; much less giving two poops about it to argue and debate over it anymore.  That is why I got out of my first career choice as a Religious teacher and educator and went into CAD Design and construction.  Big switch-a-roo. 

    I seriously don't know why I get worked up over the stupid stuff in this religious forum.  It is something I do need to work on.

    I can completely understand people not wanting to come into the forum.  Why, when you've got hateful people like me running free. 

    Really good subject matter for a forum post.  I appreciate you bringing up the subject.smile

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      IE I don't think you're hateful. I haven't seen that.

      Maybe like most of us you occassionally lose your patience or something, but I haven't seen it, or certainly haven't seen enough of it to make that impression on me.

      I always find your posts fair and informative!

      1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
        IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well thank you, however I feel that maybe I've been harsh or unfair.  But I think you said it best, it is our human nature.  Why I lose my fuse more quickly in an Internet forum, verses in real life I cannot explain.  That is my own quest to search out.wink

        Moreover though- it has been my past experience with people in general- when it comes to religion, American/Christians are probably shocked, by others peoples positioning in these forums.  Most Christian Americans do not come into contact with sooooooooo many people, of different religious and faith based affiliations.   

        I think that has alot to do with people being run off in the forums. 
        If a little old Christian woman comes into THIS religious forum, and encounters the likes of myself, Mark Knowles, Qwark or any of us, she'd most likely be shocked and gone.  Therefore, I don't think it is totally our fault as a community for people coming and going so often in the forums.

        Americans are generally naive when it comes to religion.  Maybe we just need to keep that in mind more often.smile

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You're right. It might be a culture shock to some.

          1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
            IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You know I really tend to think it is.  I know in my community, when people find out that "I" let my son choose to be an Atheist, is met with hostility and shock.  I'm like; look here people, first of all here, it is not like "I" have any control of it in the first place.  But people become stand offish. But I also know that has a lot to do with the fact of my degree and past profession as a Religious historian and teacher.  However, in the bible belt Christianity is so ingrained that I certainly feel that plays important role in why there is so much hostility in the forums.  Furthermore, look at Sarah Palin and her words about the US being a Christian nation.  When we have that kind of ignorance floating around amongst our own leaders.........., well what more can be said?  You know what I mean?

            1. 0
              kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              makes a ton of sense, everybody's right, when there is no need for the ridiculous judgements and behaviors, opinions sure anyway.....nice post intimate shows what kind of person you really are
              off to snooze  wink

              1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
                IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hey you, just sent you an email.  Love ya, and snooze well.cool  I just woke up believe it or not.

            2. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah honestly I don't really know why I didn't look at it that way before. The term helps drive home the reality of it for some. They really are clueless of the world outside of their church community and maybe Faux News.

              And even for me, I mean I was no innocent, but when I was questioning my faith and would encounter atheists in forums and such, I was really put off by their harshness and crudity. So yeah, surely I ought to be able to understand how shocking and even revolting it can be to people who have been immersed in it their whole lives.

              Oddly enough, my son attends the local methodist church, much to my chagrin. Go figure. LOL Maybe they're both just rebelling?

              He goes for the girls, I am sure. There's not much else around here, rural area.

              Anyway I always told them they have to make their own decision about it when they're ready to. Of course that didn't stop me from educating them.

              But I'm glad you put it that way. It's one thing to say they don't understand, but when you say it's a culture shock it brings out more clearly how very much so for at least some of them.

              Which will hopefully make me more patient. hmm

        2. Jerami profile image77
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          This sounds like you are not an american.  I thought you were??    That changes everything.    Not really

          1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
            IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            NO, I'm a proud American.  I live in Columbia, Missouri.  Raised in Butte, Montana.  I don't know how my post, could have sounded anything but American.  I don't see it.  What would lead you to believe I'm not American? 

            I think that with my bluntness, arrogance and brutal honesty over and over here on hubpages- would tell you that I'm nothing but an American. 

            Jerami- Some Americans are actually intelligent you know.  Some of us can be very practical and logical.  Not all Americans are overgrown baboons.smile

            Get this- I'm so American, I am insulted by your post.  And I know you Jerami, I know you meant no ill will or harm in your post towards me.  But does that change my feelings- no.  You insulted me.  An American.

            Now I must ask you, how American is that?wink  Pretty damn American right?tongue

            1. Jerami profile image77
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know what to say ??? but I'll try.
                 I said  "I thought you were an American. That changes everything...  NOT".   I didn't intend to offend,
              Since I did; I am sorry.
                 You ask why I said that?
              =================================================== 
              IE said...
                 Moreover though- it has been my past experience with people in general- when it comes to religion, American/Christians are probably shocked, by   others peoples     positioning in these forums

              ...If a little old Christian woman comes into THIS religious forum, and encounters the likes of myself, Mark Knowles, Qwark or any of us,

                 I thought that you were setting yourself apart from "Us". 
                 And then   I did ask .....in what I thought was a "funny" way.   Guess it wasn't so funny.  Sorry

    2. 0
      cosetteposted 6 years ago in reply to this




      and posting a thread calling for 'everyone' to get people you don't like banned. don't forget that. roll

      1. IntimatEvolution profile image81
        IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Cosette, you did wrong.  I actually LIKED you. Please, don't use me as an escape goat FOR YOUR HORRIFIC behavior.

        Cleary from my post, you at least can see I'm honest with myself and others.  Where YOU clearly are not. YOUR little snide comment, shows everyone how little integrity you have, and how much I do have.

        Please, grow up.  You hurt people purposefully Cosette. Own it, it was YOUR actions.  I just called you out for what you really were.  Which was horribly mean bully.

        1. 0
          cosetteposted 6 years ago in reply to this




          um, it's "scapegoat", not "escape goat" roll


          i have no idea who you are...don't read you or visit your profile...which makes your little vendetta against me all the more puzzling... you follow me in thread after thread, even though i ignore you completely. you "liked" me? and now you don't? aw...that hurts - NOT.

          this is all very strange.

          now, don't talk to me about "owning" anything. i don't hide behind sockpuppets like you or your friends...i say what i have to say as myself. can you and your buddies say the same?

          what?

          i can't hear you...

          didn't think so.

          you posted in my thread that "people don't support me"...really?

          how long have you been here?

          and yet i have way more followers than you do, so i don't know where you get this "information" from that i am hugely unpopular. oh, and made-up stuff doesn't count, by the way. if i have lost one or two followers over your and your buddies' little drama fests, they weren't my friends to begin with, so it is of no concern to me. besides, did it ever occur to you that i might be the one to distance myself from individuals like you and your ilk?

          your fascination with me and my activities is really quite stalkerish, i have to say.

          don't attempt to paint me as a "bully" when it is YOU who are doing the stalking and following around and attacking. i ignore you just as i ignore your little chums. at the same time, i don't cower in fear and have no qualms about speaking up when someone attacks me, sorry.

          i'm not going to give you any more press by addressing you further. however, keep harrassing me and i will be only too happy to report you, 'k?

          have a pleasant evening. smilesmilesmilesmilesmile

          1. RKHenry profile image80
            RKHenryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Do you realize how stupid this is Cosette?  Apparently not, or you would just leave it alone. 

            Stupidity is not generally a charming virtue.  Ignore it.  Apparently she has gotten to you, or you would not have wasted ALL of our time here posting such a long thread.  Send her an email next time, and give it a rest already.

  39. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

    Well, it must be me, the snake, that pisses everybody off then!  Everyone else is so charming and patient in their attitudes.  we snakes have always been the scapegoat..er, scapesnake since the beginning.

    It's really very simple.  Can't stand the heat?  Avoid the kitchen!  Those with easily hurt feelings are not required to read or participate in these threads.  Don't cry and complain if you can't back up your statements or if you cannot answer a question posed to you.

    1. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Even though I have been called all sorts of names and even threatened one time, I've never reported anyone here on HP.  I try really hard not to call people names or resort to personal attacks as it isn't conducive to engendering respect by one's protagonists.  I didn't say I always succeed in my efforts at self control, but I try.

        In fact, it's almost as if one loses the debate, argument, disagreement, whatever you wish to call it, if you have to resort to anything other than sarcasm, joking, incredulity, etc. and start name calling.

        Or, as you say human nature.  But it could also be dubbed "imhumane" nature for some.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well, I confess that I reported someone who now has apparently chosen to leave. I'm sorry that he felt that way. I'm not naming him cuz I'm not sure doing so would be appropriate, but I think you guys know who it was.

          I never have before in any forum or other setting, I was actually raised (by my four older sisters) not to be a tattle-tale. But then someone posted a thread strongly implicating a call for the death of the pres., and to me reporting him was a no-brainer.

          But the one I refer to in the first paragraph was later and something else. I reported him as a way to deal with his never-ending, insulting comments which do cause problems, without engaging him in it. He could give, and give and give, but he couldn't take, and a good deal of his givings were in the form of accusing nonbelievers of starting trouble. When in fact he himself started a good deal of it. He also was holding a grudge against me that he wouldn't let go, and had indicated privately to me that he held me at least partially to blame for his last ban, not because I had reported him (I had not that time) but because I had engaged in his petty little game of trading disruptive comments. He had asked me not to respond to him in the future. I tried to honor that actually, only because ignoring him was easier and he avoided attacking me directly for awhile after that.

          So there he was directly attacking me. Should I have responded to his provoking attacks when he had explicitly asked me not to do so? Should I have engaged in the childish trade of totally pointless insulting comments? I don't know. I probably should have ignored him.

          I didn't want to fight, I wanted to be nice and maintain a nice tone in the rel. forums to try and do my part to not add to its bad reputation. So I ended up reporting him.

          I'm trying to decide if I regret that or not. On one hand I'm sorry he felt compelled to leave. On the other hand I feel that it's too bad a person cannot take responsibility for his own actions, admit he did it, laugh it off, and come back to fight again another day -hopefully with a better, less antagonostic attitude.

          I'm over the drama, seriously I am. I confess that sometimes things get heated in the forums (all of them apparently) and I confess that sometimes I'm a little too harsh. I resolve to personally be more considerate of other peoples' feelings, but their positions if stated in the forums are still fair game.

          If people wanna throw fits about it, take their toys and go home, then that's their problem. If I recall right when I signed up here I had to agree that i was at least 18 years old. I assume everyone else had to do so as well.

          Sorry to those who will miss him, and I'm sorry that he felt inclined to leave, but I'm over it all and am not about to feel guilty about it or to blame.

          People need to grow up.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You made a decision which you thought was right for you.  Apparently HP agreed with you so you have that going for you.  I prefer to fight my own battles on my own terms.  But this is just the way I handle things.

            1. habee profile image91
              habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I feel the same way, Randy.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You should feel completely clean since you got my share of Ex...er..Kit Kat Bar!

                1. habee profile image91
                  habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  ???

              2. Rod Marsden profile image87
                Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I use humor sometimes but I don't see myself as being an aggressive person here anyone need worry about.

            2. Pandoras Box profile image82
              Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              As do I, and prior to the last couple of days I have never reported anyone for anything, it isn't my style. But you can't have reasonable discussion without all the flaming when there's people who consistantly and pointlessly flame others.

              Certainly I've handled him before, and more than once, which is one of the reasons he bore a grudge against me. For the sake of 'peace' in the forums, I thought I'd try letting the powers that be handle it this time. It was either that or more flame wars.

              At any rate, sorry it turned out this way, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

  40. susanlang profile image60
    susanlangposted 6 years ago

    Like I said, in here, life is like a box of candy, you never know what your going to get.. Hmm, I think that was taken from the Forest Gump movie. Choc not candy however. smile

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Snickers, perhaps?

      1. susanlang profile image60
        susanlangposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol, maybe. wink

  41. Pandoras Box profile image82
    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago

    I do know this though. I'm done with the drama.

    It isn't me, it isn't us, and it isn't the religious forums.

  42. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Is that mormon or moron? Beck is certainly the latter! smile

    1. alternate poet profile image78
      alternate poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi earnest - I have just mentioned you in other thread - hope you don't mind I took your name in vain ! big_smile

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think I saw that. Was it in reference to me becoming less vocal! lol I will make up for it as soon as I can find a way to tell religionists they are nuts without getting banned again! lol

    2. 0
      SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Where ya been hiding Earnest? Haven't seen you for some time now.

      I got my son a banjo a couple nights ago. He wanted one and I found one reasonable. Now I need to find him some lessons.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I self taught myself to play five string banjo using Earl Scruggs tabs for "Foggy Mountain Breakdown," Sir Dent.  A slow process but if you can learn this one song the rest is easy.

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Randy. I'll check into it. He knows how to do the finger roll though he is very slow with it. The Banjo is an instrument I never had interest in learning.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Learning the proper techniques should be done slowly as speed will come later on.  Good luck to your son!  I play several instruments but the banjo seems to fascinate people the most.

            1. habee profile image91
              habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You play the banjo? When??  hahahahaha!!!

            2. 0
              SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I play guitar some but the bass is my favorite.

              1. Rochelle Frank profile image89
                Rochelle Frankposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Four string tenor guitar is what I used to do a bit (really like a big ukelele)-- anything with four strings is easier than six or twelve.

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I love being able to keep the rhythm of songs on bass.

              2. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I played bass professionally for a while and it was a lot of fun.  Much easier than lead or rhythm guitar which I also played for many years.

          2. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Me neither, but then I never had too much interest in learning any instrument. That said, I love banjo music. i love all music though.

            Good for your son, I say, because not too many choose the banjo anymore.

      2. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That is so cool Sirdent!

        I love banjo, but never mastered it. More power to him, if he is like his dad he will be very musical indeed!
        I still need a link to your music. I could not find the last one. smile
        My 21 yo son came around yesterday and played me some new stuff on my Martin. Wonderful thing music! smile

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I sent you an email with the links.

        2. Jeff Berndt profile image89
          Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Okay, totally off-topic, but when I first saw your HubPages handle, I read it as "earnesttubb" rather than "earnestshub." I expected hubs about down-home country music. smile

          1. Randy Godwin profile image93
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Do they have "down home country music" in Aussie land?

            1. Rod Marsden profile image87
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Country music in Australia? You bet we do have it.

              We have country singers, the works. Look up Slim Dusty. Mind you earnesthub could fill in more of the details. So there you go Randy. Oh, and our country singers are great.

              Would you believe they also have country music in Poland. Pirate radio stations in that country used to play American country music just to annoy the local Communist authorities. Then bands that were made up of Polish teens and 20-somethings started up doing their versions of American country music firstly in English and then in Polish. Before long these bands were creating their own songs and I believe it is still going on there. Strange as it may be to some people but the sound of country music over there probably still rings out freedom and defiance against foreign rule.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not surprised, Rod!  After all, you guys live further south than I do..  In your case, it should be called "down under" home country music!

    3. Pandoras Box profile image82
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Glad you're back, Earn, everybody missed you!

  43. goldenpath profile image80
    goldenpathposted 6 years ago

    I'm 5'3" and have often been called an Umpa Lumpa. smile Names are fun! smile Whether Mormon or Moron I accept either because it is only a perception from someone else's point of view.  Especially in here when hardly any of us know each other face to face.  Now how's that for nerdy?

    1. Rochelle Frank profile image89
      Rochelle Frankposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yer my favorite nerd, goldenpath.
      I know many Mormons and a couple of morons. I think they all have something valuable to offer. Some of my favorite teachers in public school were LDS, and a couple were Catholic or "no response" on the official checklists.

      Let people bloom where they are planted, and appreciate the beauty in each.

    2. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not nerdy at all goldenpath unless you want to be. Acceptance really isn't a nerdy thing.

      Cool Rochelle Frank, do let people bloom where they are planted. As for appreciating others, well, its been a nice warm autumn day so I'll go along with that view as well.

  44. TheGlassSpider profile image82
    TheGlassSpiderposted 6 years ago

    I always miss all the drama...LOL

  45. sagbee profile image61
    sagbeeposted 6 years ago

    I do not think they are afraid and what kind of slash you are talking about? Nothing will happen to them if they participate in teh forums like this.. and for me every religion is equal and must be respected..

  46. wyanjen profile image86
    wyanjenposted 6 years ago

    You are a brave, strong, and proud woman Holly.

    It's no secret that you and I disagree profoundly on the issue of religion, yet we have become friends. We have everything in common except... well, that one thing.
    big_smile

    I've said this before, but I'll repeat it here:
    The personal strength and comfort you get from your belief is a beautiful thing.

    I can speak for most atheists.
    Spirituality and personal faith are not what we are arguing about. Every person needs a spark of something. For you, it is god. For me, it is something different.

    Be well and stay strong!
    Jen

    1. h.a.borcich profile image60
      h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Jen,

      I appreciate the compliments and yes - we think differently but we have become friends:) Been hoping you were doing ok as I haven't seen you much lately. Has spring hit you yet or is there more snow rolling in up there?

      I really do not think I am braver or stronger than anyone else.
      When we are born, we are given a chance at life. We somehow are convinced we are entitled to a full life and all the best. When it doesn't work out that way, most look for who is to blame and get consumed with feeling cheated when all we really had was a chance.
      Just don't ever pity me. I have lived my life to the bone. Holly

      1. wyanjen profile image86
        wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Pity is the LAST thing that comes to mind. The first thing that comes to mind is respect. (Followed immediately by an argument lol )

        With the death of my daughter and niece, I lost that sense of entitlement you mention. A chance really is all we have - you are correct.
        Your faith has given you peace.
        In my case, during those dark times, I did try to look to the church. I was devastated beyond a point where I could function.
        I was completely sincere about it. Unpacked my bible that I put in a box 20 years ago, flipped through some Psalms, talked to my catholic mother...
        Then I smacked myself upside the head. It was a lie that I was desperately trying to justify. 

        I called my mom and made her cancel the graveside ceremony she was planning up in my home town. (One of the girls is buried with my dad.) She was upset but she understands where my faith lies. She's not offended by it. smile
        We did a gathering instead without any religious presence and it was a relief to me not to have to do the "polite and smile" routine.
        I was not about to lie on behalf of my own daughter.

        It's been a long time since I talked about this but you're willing to be open, so I don't feel like I'm playing a drama game. It's nice to just be honest and not hide what I went through - I can't do this very well in real life.

        smile

        1. Pandoras Box profile image82
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          My deepest, Jen.

        2. h.a.borcich profile image60
          h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Jen,
            I am so sorry you have known such a loss. You did what you needed to find whatever peace was available and that is important. It is the journey and chance in and of life itself.
            So much of life I do not understand, but I am thankful I know we can set aside whatever we see differently long enough to stand as friends when friends and kindness are needed. You know I am here if I can ever be of help to you smile
            We became friends not because of what we view differently, I think we became friends because we saw something similar. We can share a topic, differ in opinion and still be friends. Honest friends. Respectful friends who love a good debate smile
            You a drama queen? Not hardly. I am a real person behind the avatar, and I think you are doing great at the real life thing with me! Maybe we can start a trend or spread civility and kindness to epidemic proportions in cyberspace smile Holly

          1. wyanjen profile image86
            wyanjenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            big_smile

            Even in the ugliest argument, I'm fighting with the idea not the person.
            I wish more people would understand this - not just for my part, but for everybody. smile

            Here is a smile for ya (I never get tired of this one.)

            http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv19/wyanjen/moses.jpg

            1. Misha profile image74
              Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Priceless! lol

  47. Stevennix2001 profile image83
    Stevennix2001posted 6 years ago

    i already made a forum similar to this topic a while back that wasn't as popular as this one for whatever reason.  lol.  i guess it's because the only time you people talk to me is when i have that damn kitty sniper avatar and/or im opening up forums about sex related stuff.  lol.  oh well. anyway, here's the forum link to hear my thoughts that might answer why people are afraid to talk in religious forums.  although since this post has NOTHING to do with sex, and i don't have my sniper kitty avatar, i doubt seriously any of you will even bother reading this post or check out the link.  lol.  oh well.  i guess the damn cat gets more respect around here than me.

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38870

  48. terrowhite profile image61
    terrowhiteposted 6 years ago

    Practicing any religion is one's own choice completely and there should not be any debate in it... why people are making so much fuss about the religion topic? And why are they afraid in sharing their viws about religious beliefs?

  49. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Ah yes, the way forward. smile

    http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/Primate_bucket/cartoon20060222.gif

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image89
      Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      like.

      1. Rod Marsden profile image87
        Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Not bad earnestshub.

    2. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Awesome! I t has been added to my anti-religion collection.

      http://markpknowles.com/wp-content/uploads/thor.jpg

      It is a big collection............. big_smile

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps a hub with your "collection" would be entertaining.  Well.... for some of us anyway!

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image89
          Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I second that. If you have time to write some clever commentary, or perhaps some analysis of the animosity between believers in different things, or between believers and nonbelievers, or even the false dichotomy between faith and science, the images in this collection would be great illustrations.

          Of course, there's always believers (and non-believers) with no sense of humor who'll get all angry...

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Oh - I have tried to explain why there is a high level of animosity. Mostly for me it is using words like "proof" and "evidence" in new ways that invalidate me and my reasoning abilities. wink

            http://hubpages.com/hub/Christianisms
            http://hubpages.com/hub/christians-on-hubpages

            "Deaf ears" comes to mind.........

            1. BDazzler profile image83
              BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Huh? Were you saying something? tongue

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Wot? big_smile

          2. Pandoras Box profile image82
            Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Do it!

    3. Jane Bovary profile image90
      Jane Bovaryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      earnesthub.

      For a history of religion, that's pretty darn accurate!

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Earnest, I am curious to ask -while I agree and enjoy the humor greatly- what has science not killed or decimated for the sake of discovery. I mean, digging up dead bodies to study their anatomy seems pretty -what's the word- megalomaniac and just plain rude no?

  50. tonymac04 profile image88
    tonymac04posted 6 years ago

    I agree!

    1. Rod Marsden profile image87
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Pity those without a sense of humor. Fancy going through life that way. What a horrid existence.

      1. terrowhite profile image61
        terrowhiteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        People who does not understand the language of love and laugh they are simply the boring and people who needed love.. cannot say more about them..

 
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