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Suspicious Apostleship Of Paul-Something To Think About

  1. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    It was James who led the early Apostles and it was Peter upon whom the church would be built. Yet today you wouldn't know it or even think it. Paul's doctrine is the one most churches base their doctrine on.

    The Disciples were students of Yahshua and became Apostles (teachers) after Yahshua's ascension. Paul states he is an Apostle because Christ appeared to him. Yet he told 3 stories about it that differed.

       It was Paul's teachings against the laws of Yah that brought him into conflict with the Judahite believers. The entire area of Asia rejected him. In Revelation the church of Ephesus was praised for recognizing false prophets, yet Paul wrote a letter to the Ephesians as if they were his followers. He got no where with the Judahite  Jews, so he decided to get converts from gentiles (people who are not Judahite or Israelite) and who presumably knew nothing or little about the laws of the Torah and who would thus be more likely to follow his teachings without arguing about its content or aware of his deceptions.

    II Peter 3:15:

        So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters.  There are some things in them hard to understand which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

    1. karobi profile image72
      karobiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      so are you saying that Appostle Paul was a false prophet or Appostle? pls make let us know.

    2. hgbotoe profile image60
      hgbotoeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What exactly is your point? Can you please be clear.

    3. profile image0
      SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus said, "I am the way." The church is built upon Jesus Christ and faith that God raised Him from the dead as revealed by the Holy Ghost.



      On the contrary, Paul taught what the law did and what grace did in  spite of the law. I asked you a question before and you did not answer it. Have you broken any of the law? Of course I know the answer. Death by stoning is the penalty for breaking the law. Am I correct?

      So we can conclude that the law brings death because it proves everyone guilty. But grace and mercy brings life.

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Matthew 16:18
        And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


        Rock, in the Greek, Petra, which means the solid, immovable bed-rock, a great mass like a cliff, and church, Greek, ecclesia, those called out, the fellowship of believers, the organized society of Christ, the kingdom of heaven on earth.

        Christ spoke in the Syrian tongue, and therefore did not use this discourse to distinguish between Petros, which signifies Peter, and Petra, which signifies a rock, but in both places used the word Cephas: but his meaning is what is written in Greek, in which the different word endings distinguish between Peter, who is a piece of the building, and Christ the Petra, that is, the rock and foundation: or else he named him Peter because of the confession of his faith, which is the Church's as well as his, as the old fathers witness, for so says Theophylact. That confession which you have made, shall be the foundation of the believers.

        1. profile image0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Read a few verses before those. What did Jesus ask Peter? "Whom do you say that I am?"

          Peter said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

          Jesus then said, "Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father which is in Heaven."

          Revelation from  the Father in heaven is the rock that the church is built upon.

          If the church is built upon Peter, who was a sinner, then the church will not be able to stand.

          1. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Read it again
            Matthew 16:18
            And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


            At their first meeting, Christ told Simon that his name would thereafter be Peter, which translates as "Rock" (John 1:42)
            Then two important things were told the apostle. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). Here Peter was singled out for the authority that provides for the forgiveness of sins and the making of disciplinary rules. Later the apostles as a whole would be given similar power [Matt.18:18], but here Peter received it in a special sense.

            To whom, or to what, does it refer? Since Simon’s new name of Peter itself means rock, the sentence could be rewritten as: "You are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church."

            Peter alone was promised something else also: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 16:19). In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority.

            Christ told Peter the authority he earlier had promised: "Feed my sheep" (John 21:17).

            An angel was sent to announce the resurrection to Peter (Mark 16:7), and the risen Christ first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34)

            1. Jerami profile image77
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              There is just SSOOooo much circumstantial evidence piled up so high that shows religion to have taken a left turn,
                It often seems to be too much circumstantial evidence for people to see.
                Until we admit that a left turn has been made, confusion will abound.

                And that confusion is something that keeps a lot of people from believing anything at all.

            2. profile image0
              SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this



              The problem lies in what is meant by "this rock". You think Jesus is talking about Peter, but I assert He is talking about the revelation that came from the Father.

              Peter was named Cephas, yes, and it does mean rock. But Peter became a rock in the body of Christ. He became steadfast and sure.

              "Without faith, it is impossible to please God."

              1. profile image0
                Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, Cephas means, in the Syriac language, a rock. Syriac is an Aramaic language. Peter was given this same by Christ to outwardly show who the church was to be built on.

        2. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Peter is petros (pebble); Jesus is the Rock (petra).  The church was not founded upon Peter, whom Jesus called Satan, denied our Lord three times, sunk on the water due to lack of faith and was crucified upside-down.

          1 Cor 1:12-13 "Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, 'I am of Paul,' and 'I of Apollos,' and 'I of Cephas,' and 'I of Christ.'  Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"  Those who say they are 'of Christ' in this passage are those who only heed the words of Christ Jesus spoken in the gospels and neglect the rest of the Word; this does not mean believers are not all 'of Christ'.  The hubber, Jerami, is a good example of one who does this.

          1 Cor 3:4 "For when one says, 'I am of Paul,' and another, 'I am of Apollos,' are you not mere men?"

          1 Cor 3:21-23 "So then let no one boast in men. For all things belong to you, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you, and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God."

          Also, the letter to the church at Ephesus in Revelation was not calling the church false prophets, but praising them that they could not tolerate false prophets.  You've got some things mixed up here.  Just as Paul said, "do you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord"? (Acts 13:10).  So, as those of the church of Ephesus would do, I must expose your error.  I pray you let the Holy Spirit guide you into the truth.

          1. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Petros (The Greek name for Peter) has never meant pebble. It has always meant Rock. Petros is derived from the Root word Petra which means Rock. His name was Simon but Christ chose to call Him 'ROCK" because of his faith.
            So Peter lost faith and sunk. So? don't we all at one time or another? Christ had still made that promise.

            The letter to the Ephesus was speaking of Paul, the false Apostle and those who followed. The True Apostles (Teachers) were the first Disciples (Students) chosen by Christ who than had disciples and so on. The Disciples in this Lineage did not trust nor believe Paul.
            Paul and his followers were of the Nicolaitanes who they hated. The Nicolaitanes first started in the Book of Numbers. Numbers 22-36.

            So dear Judah I must expose your errors. You must study and cross reference.

            Paul is and always has been a stumbling block. Balaam told Balak in Numbers 24:14-25
            14. "And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days."
            15. "And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:"
            16. "He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:"
            17. "I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab " (Moab means Seed of a Father), and destroy all the children of Sheth."

    4. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend  Deborah Sexton

      Paul and Joseph Smith Junior were false Prophets; hence their fate.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. Pandoras Box profile image81
        Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Joseph Smith, Jr.

        1. profile image69
          paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks

        2. Daniel Carter profile image90
          Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Founder of the Mormons.

          1. profile image69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friends

            Nothing to do with truthful teachings of Jesus.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    5. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's not Paul who's telling those stories. They are told by the different people who translate the original scripts.

      1. profile image69
        paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi friend tantrum

        There are no original scrips in the origianl language Jesus and Mary spoke; all translation of translations.

        Thanks

        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well, that's what I'm talking about. the Bible as any other religious Book, is man made.
          And yes, there are some transcriptions, they're called the Dead sea Scrolls.

          1. profile image69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            Hi friend tantrum

            Bible is man made; it is very certain; it has though some glimpses of the Revelation made by the Creator- God Allah YHWH on Jesus and there are some words written by Jesus; but part is part, it is no whole.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If that makes you happy !

            2. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What do you mean? What did jesus write?

              1. Randy Godwin profile image93
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know if Jesus could write.  Don't you think if he could write someone would have kept something written by the "Son of God?" 

                He supposedly lived for over 30 years and I'm not sure if there was ever any mention of him writing anything. Why didn't he?  Perhaps he was afraid to commit himself!  He had an identical twin, you know.

  2. Pandoras Box profile image81
    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago

    Deb, lol, stop it! You're freaking people out, got them all confused and stuff.

  3. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago

    WTF ? Inconsistencies in "The" bible?

    I

    AM

    SHOCKED yikes

    1. Pandoras Box profile image81
      Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I want a refund.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        On the other hand, his wife makes great fish sticks.

        1. Pandoras Box profile image81
          Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You know they were fishers of men, don't you? Never know what Mrs. Paul puts in them "fish-sticks."

          That's why I only trust the Gorton's fishermen.

          1. DavitosanX profile image81
            DavitosanXposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They had Soylent Green in Judea?

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol lol

  4. pisean282311 profile image57
    pisean282311posted 6 years ago

    According to the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Paul's influence on Christian thinking arguably has been more significant than any other New Testament author

    1. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So, Paul had a bad influence; as he did not spread the true teachings of Jesus. "Christianity" is a misnomer; it has nothing to do with Jesus .

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  5. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    S/Paul was healed by Peter.
    Even at the Jerusalem convention, supported S/Paul.
    So if S/Paul was a false teacher -not a prophet, since no prophet came after Y`shua- why did Peter heal him and defend him AND even go to Rome on his behalf to establish the 'church' there?

  6. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Paul's Lies

    The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. (Acts 9:7)

    Now those who were with me saw the light, but did not hear the voice of the one who was speaking to me. (Acts 22:9)

    So, did they hear the voice, or did they not hear the voice?  Did they see the light, or did they see no one?


    ******************************************************************

    When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, but their plot became known to Saul.  They were watching the gates day and night to kill him; but his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.  (Acts 9:23-25)
     
    At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped his hands. (II Corinthians 11: 32,33)

    So, was it the Jews of Damascus from whom Paul fled, or was it from the governor under King Aretas?  And, was he lowered over the wall or through a window?

    ******************************************************************

    And his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.  And when he had come to Jerusalem he attempted to join the disciples but they are all afraid of him for they did not believe he was a disciple.  But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared to them how on the road he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus.  So he went in and out among them at Jerusalem, preaching boldly in the name of the Lord.  And he spoke and disputed against the Hellenists; but they were seeking to kill him.  And when the brethren knew it, they brought him down to Caesarea and set him off to Tarsus. (Acts 9:25-30)

    And (Ananias) . . .said, The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from his mouth; and you will be a witness for him to all men of what you have seen and heard.  And now, why do you wait?  Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.  When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple I fell into a trance and saw him saying to me, 'Make haste and get quickly out of Jerusalem, because they will not accept your testimony about me.  And I said, 'Lord, they themselves know that in very synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believed in thee.  And when the blood of Stephen thy witness was shed, I also was standing by and approving, and keeping the garments of those who killed him.'  And he said to me, 'Depart; for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.' (Acts 22:14-21)


    But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned to Damascus.  Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days.  But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.  (In what I am writing to you, before God I do not lie!)  Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; and I still was not known by sight to the churches of Christ in Judea; they only heard it said, “He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” (Galatians 1:15-23)

    If we really look at the two accounts from Acts, we conclude that Paul went immediately to Jerusalem after escaping from Damascus – which the Galatian letter wholeheartedly rebuts.
    Then He says that the Greek/Jews wanted to kill him but his brothers in Christ took him to  Cilicia. But then the letter from Paul to the Galatians contradicts the other two.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why don't you quote the scripture accurately, first of all?  You used the NAS for Acts 9:7 which states, "The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one."  Acts 22:9 states (NAS), "And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me."  It does NOT say they didn't hear the voice!!!

      The very fact that you would call Paul a false apostle is bold and dangerously so.  He was chosen and called by God (from the tribe of Benjamin) and wrote 13 of 27 New Testament books we live by.  I won't continue to read your heresy.  Repent, for God, as the church of Ephesus, despises false teachers!!  James 3:1 "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment."

      1. profile image0
        SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi JD. smile

      2. Daniel Carter profile image90
        Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I wonder why you can't agree to disagree, Judah's Daughter? I don't see the benefit of reacting so vehmently. Do you believe in the gospel of peace, or in just battling it out?

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Deleted

          1. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Dear Judah. I woke up long ago. I used to follow the Christian doctrine until I was shown the truth.
            There is no need for you to try to convert me.

            1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
              Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Clear enough.  At least you don't claim to be a Christian.  The fact I thought you were was what made me intolerant.  Now, I understand.

              1. profile image0
                Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I believe in Christ and try to follow Him. However, I do not follow Paul's/The Christian doctrine.

                Don't judge me in what you call a "sinner" I am an ordained and licensed Minister.

                Christians put the emphasis on GRACE, however it is by FAITH through Grace.

                Paul wanted everyone to think the law was done away with. However it hasn't been.
                Christ said He did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it.  Doing away with the law is not what Christ taught.

                The Apostles appointed by Christ did not trust Paul, nor did they believe him.

      3. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Judah the KJV of Acts 9:7 states "And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man."
        KJV Acts 22:9 "And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. "

        Acts 9:7 they hear the voice but see no one
        Acts 22:9 They saw the light but heard not the voice.

        These which are from Paul contradict


        Why is it you notice where the KJV says they saw no man and the NAS says they saw no one..yet you can't see what I am trying to show those who want to see...Paul told stories. If something is true you don't change how it happened the way Paul did.

        Are you my judge? How do you know my relationship with God?
        I haven't judged you.
        I am posting this out of love. Why be deceived?

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          AM I your judge or is I AM your judge?  It will be I AM, let me tell you.  Old English and newer English, for that matter, has caused countless false doctrines.  If you look up the Greek word for "hear", it includes "understand".  If I say to you, "Deb, do you hear what I'm saying?", that can mean "Do you hear with your ears what I'm saying?" and also "Do you understand what I'm saying?"  The Bible does not contradict itself with proper study...including petros and petra.  AND, you must look up cross-references to confirm the scriptures.  For example, 1 Corinthians 10:4 confirms who the Rock is: "for they were drinking from a spiritual rock [petra] which followed them; and the rock [petra] was Christ."  I will not try to convert you; you chose to leave (were you ever born again, or did you just follow the Catholic religion?).  Notice Hebrews 6:4-6 and know where you stand.

          1. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Judah, I will answer you for the last time. Than I will continue speaking of the Apostle Paul because He is what this thread is about. It's not about converting anyone.
            I know how statements can have two meanings. I am happy you understand that. It is something I learned a long time ago.
            Yes, I know who my judge is. Your judgment which you ARE indeed expressing, does not concern me.
            I speak Greek fluently. I know the meaning of Peter, Petro, Pedro and Petra. They all mean the ROCK. Peter does not mean Pebble. Look it up.
            I also speak Hebrew as a third language. My husband is Hebrew born in Israel and he helps me with speaking, reading and writing Hebrew.
            Paul made himself an Apostle (Teacher) but He was not chosen by Christ nor by God the Father. He took over. In His writings, he is always saying "I'm not lying" "I'm telling you the truth"

            However, he is using his false front to lead people astray (away) from the truth.
            The Gospel changed when he took over. Believe him if you want. But, if you want the truth. Ask God to teach you, to show you his truths.
            I know you feel you already know the truth. But if you really love Christ you won't want to defend someone who tried to take away from His teachings. Ask God. Seek and you will find.
            Paul wrote Corinthians, so it doesn't prove anything except he changed what Christ taught.
            Paul was suppose to have written Hebrews too. The scripture you gave proves he is against Yahshua's teachings. Because the only unforgivable act is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is attributing something of the Holy Spirit to the Devil according to the scripture you believe in.

            No, I have never been a Catholic

            1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
              Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You're saying Paul did not speak of the Holy Spirit; is that not blaspheming the Holy Spirit?  Are you just attacking Paul's flesh?  Doesn't sound like it.  Is your husband Jewish?  Jews hated Paul and thought he was a liar; those who did not want to give up their self-righteous works of the Law, etc.  I'm not trying to convert you; I'm just refuting your claims to Paul being a false apostle, which is very much in alignment with this thread.  Furthermore, since you KNOW that the word "hear" has two meanings, you have intentionally been deceptive in quoting only the Old English of the KJV to try to trip up Paul's wording.  Likewise, anyone can look up the word Cephas or Peter in the Greek of the Bible and see for themselves that it is NOT petra.  They can do the same thing when it comes to the Rock (petra), which is Jesus Christ.  Catholics believe the church was founded upon Cephas/Peter.  It's interesting you are not Catholic, yet you believe the same thing?  You know what you're doing and that makes YOU the liar.  Peace out ~~

              1. profile image0
                Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I didn't say Paul didn't speak of the Holy Spirit. Where did you get that? If I had said that, it is not blaspheming. You're wrong there. Please look it up in Mark.

                I am Challenging Paul's Apostleship and teachings. Did you read from the book of Numbers that I gave?

                Though it was left out of the book of Acts, Paul had a GREAT conflict with Peter.

                Paul was a Hebrew when he wanted to be and a Greek when he wanted to be. He said he was all things to all men.  and he was a Roman citizen—a fact that allowed him a somewhat privileged social status with respect to laws, property, and governance. There were twelve tribes of Hebrews. Don't lump my husband in with the haters. You are taking a group of people and stereotyping them. That's unfair.
                Plus, for the heck of it, let's say my Husband did hate Paul, what does that have to do with me?
                It was the Greeks who hated Paul, the Hebrews rejected his teachings because he taught against God's law.

                Paul hated those who followed Christ. He was educated and figured out that he could say he was an Apostle and thereby control the Gentiles and lead them away from the truth. Again read the prediction of this in Numbers. Study, study, study.

                Paul use to persecute and kill those who followed Christ..Than suddenly he was suppose to be an Apostle. Again, he did this to infiltrate and turn away the Gentiles.

  7. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Paul Taught To Stop Living By The Law And To Live By Faith Only

    Galatians 3:10-14 reads,

    10. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who doesn’t continue in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11. Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith." 12. The law is not of faith, but, "The man who does them will live by them." 13. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree," 14. that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    Paul taught Israelites that faith was opposed to the works of the law. He taught them to forsake the works of the law and to abide only in faith,

    In essence, Paul taught Israelites to forsake the law and abide only in faith, a faith devoid of undertaking the works of the law!

    Paul Taught The Ephesian That The Law Of Commandments Was Abolished

    Ephesians 2:11-22

    11. Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "uncircumcision" by that which is called "circumcision," (in the flesh, made by hands); 12. that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. 14. For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of partition, 15. having abolished in the flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace; 16. and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility thereby. 17. He came and preached peace to you who were far off and to those who were near. 18. For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, 20. being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone; 21. in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord; 22. in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

    Yet Paul observed this law, see Acts 21. Paul therefore was a hypocrite, because he was teaching Hebrews to forsake observing the law while he observed it!

    Yet God told the Israelites to remember the Laws of Moses

    Malachi 4:4-6

    4. "Remember the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded to him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances. 5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Yah comes. 6. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

    In Yah's prophecy by Malachi he commands remembrance of the law of Moses his servant, which he commanded to Moses in Horeb for all Israel, even all of the law. He speaks this command with respect to the time of the prophet Elijah whom he is to send, before the great and terrible day of Yah comes. The law of Moses is speaking of the time of the prophet Elijah just before the great and terrible day of Yah comes.

    Paul was a heretic

  8. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    What Christ said about the law

    Matthew 5:17-19
    17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

    18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


    fulfill
    verb
    1. bring to completion or reality achieve or realize

  9. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    It is obvious to me that you know the bible well Deborah. .......... It amazes me you believe any of it at all. smile
    The more I learnt the less I believed. smile

    1. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Earnest. Exactly, I am disputing it. Paul made sure he added many of his writings. Most of what he said is untrue.

      Yet, most Christians are Pauline Christians that believe and follow his every word. To their downfall I might add.
      Actually, I believe a little but not most. And nothing Paul wrote.

      How are you?

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Very well thank you for asking. I find you well and happy I hope? smile

        1. profile image0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I'm doing well. I am taking the day off work today.

      2. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        No, I think it all came before and is the result of a condition of mind that longs for divinity.
        Some of it is quite beautiful reading though. smile

  10. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    It was Peter who laid hands on Paul and the anointing came upon him.
    Paul never claimed to abolish the law, but when one walks IN faith, as they are supposed to (see Hebrews) they fulfill the law in themselves. This proves the Grace of the Father. Paul was blinded, so that even having great zeal for the Father, still did not understand. In his blindness he came to see a great mercy. Why would Peter and the apostles anoint Paul and assist him if he was a false apostle? These are men who spend a thousand days with the Lord, saw it all and were anointed in the Spirit. Is the Spirit confused? I think not.

    It was Y`shua Himself who said: the law is fulfilled in their hearing. So now a new command is given, the old commands fulfilled:

    Love the Father with all your being and love your fellow humans as you even love yourself.

  11. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    The Twelve Apostles

    Simon (Peter)

    Andrew

    James (son of Zebedee)

    John

    Philip

    Bartholomew

    Thomas

    Matthew

    James (son of Alphaeus)

    Jude (Thaddaeus)

    Simon (the Zealot)

    Judas Iscariot


    Not Of The Twelve

    Matthias

    Saul (Paul)

    1. profile image0
      SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You forgot to mention Deborah Sexton.

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        SDent (I won't call you Sir) When someone has a different message than you want to hear, you are just rude.
        Why don't you open your mind. If you don't agree with what I am saying and you feel the need to call me names or say condescending things, just don't read what I write.

        1. profile image0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You act like an apostle of Jesus. You were not one of the original twleve. Which category do you belong?

          Call me rude if you want. You do not have to call me Sir either. Just answer the question or not.

    2. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You do know your stuff Deborah! smile

      1. profile image0
        SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        Actually, she listed the original 12 disciples. What about the others mentioned in Acts? Act 1:15  And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

        1. profile image0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I wasn't speaking of Disciples (Students), I was speaking of Apostles (Teachers)
          The 12 I listed are those chosen by Yahshua.
          Seems that although you say you are "Christian" you will defend Paul before Yahshua.

          1. DavitosanX profile image81
            DavitosanXposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I have to side with Twenty One Days on this one. Didn't Peter vouched for Paul? They did seem to be on the same track. I do know Paul's teachings diverted from the original message, but I didn't hear Peter complaining.

            1. Jerami profile image77
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Actually if we look at the scripture, prophesy and life from a post resurectionists perspective, we could question a lot of things that we otherwise shouldn't.

            2. profile image0
              Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You're agreeing with Twenty One Days but I was replying to Mr. Dent.

              Peter, being an Apostle was kind to Paul, but never accepted him. Neither did the other Apostles.

              Acts 9:26-27

              And when he had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples. And they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple. 27. But Barnabas took him and  brought him to the apostles and declared to them how on the road he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus.

              In Galatians 2:11-15
              Paul is telling everyone that he rebuked Peter and he did it because Peter was wrong. (Which he wasn't wrong)
              (Here Paul says he is a Jew)

              1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
                Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Regarding Acts, It's no wonder the disciples were initially afraid of Paul, for they didn't know he'd been converted to Christianity.

                Regarding Galatians, Peter and Barnabas were forsaking the gospel, just like you have done, and probably for the same reason.  It all started with Peter's fear of the Jews (some rock).  It was just like Peter to deny Christ again due to fear of the Jews.  Call it "peer pressure".  They did not remain in that hypocrisy and returned to the gospel of grace and truth.  Paul never wavered.

                And, IF you were teachable, I'd show you how the scriptures declare that Jesus fulfilled and accomplished the entirety of the Law on the cross.  You claim Christ, but reject the New Covenant.

                1. profile image0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Peter never forsook anything.

                  Just because I don't believe in the Christian doctrine doesn't mean I have forsaken anything. When you judge someone you exalt yourself to the throne of God. God is my judge, not you.

                  Peter was a Hebrew or as you call it, a Jew himself. Give me scripture on how Peter was forsaking the gospel.

                  I am very teachable. That is why I came out of the Christian faith.
                  I've never said I reject anything except Paul and his false teachings.

                  Christ fulfilled the law, he didn't do away with it. He even said this. He didn't only teach to obey the law but expounded on it.

                  Who do you believe Yahshua or Paul?

                  Again
                  What Christ said about the law

                  Matthew 5:17-19
                  17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

                  18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

                  19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


                  fulfill
                  verb
                  1. bring to completion or reality achieve or realize

                  You're saying I'm not teachable. but it appears it is you that you speak of.

                2. profile image0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  If we are no longer under the law (Paul's teaching) why hasn't heaven and earth ended?

                  Matthew 5:18


                  18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

                3. profile image0
                  Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  spot on Judah.

                  a. S/Paul's first visit to Jerusalem scared them because he was a powerful zealot & roman citizen, who was a contract killer of believers. Note it was Barnabas who introduces him.

                  b. Peter began to 'play' jew by eating with them and not standing up for believers. Then bashing jews in the believers company. This caused a huge divide in the churches and confusion.

                  c. In what the Law (commands & mosaic) could NOT do, in that it was weak because of the human desire for sin, Abba did, by sending Himself, in the likeness of that sinful flesh (as a man), to condemn sin in that flesh. [ which I think is a hugely profound and very cool thing to do, using that method ]. So that the righteous requirements of the Law might be fulfilled in those who follow the Spirit...

      2. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Earnest smile Thanks.
        When I was a young girl, I longed to know God and studied all through the night every chance I got. I cross referenced everything I could.
        I was soon led away from "Christianity"

        When people say that, the Christians gasp and say, "You'll come back to the Lord" LOL smile

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well as a non believer who was once a Christian and either C of E on Dads side or Catholic on my mothers side before my "born again" period, I get the same! Funny eh? smile

  12. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I believe she did list the twelve original apostles SirDent, that was what I was referring to. Not everyone gets that right. smile

  13. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Good night yaul  goina shower and recline.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Goodnight Jeremi. smile

  14. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    They needed to replace Judas Iscariot and Peter along with the other Apostles prayed and asked God to "make known to them, the one He wanted to choose" Acts 1:12-26

    There was suppose to be twelve Apostles. Not eleven and not thirteen, but twelve.

    Paul was never voted in. He made himself an Apostle.

    The others did not trust him, nor did they like what he taught.

    Saul was a Jew when he was around the Israelis and Paul was a Greek when he was around the Greeks.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And Barnabas?  Peter's side-kick ~ was he not an apostle?  Do you think there were only supposed to be twelve forevermore?  Consider the five-fold ministry of the Church (Eph 4:11).  Not much is written about Matthias, which makes me wonder if he wasn't chosen by men, yet God chose Paul...in regard to the 12.  That's only my pondering.  Paul tells us he became all things to all men that he might win them to Christ (1 Cor 9:20).  That's a very hard thing to do, but this is precisely why he told the Gentile believers to observe certain Jewish laws (for the sake of winning Jews to Christ), not because they were under the Law.

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Barnabas was Paul's companion not Peter's. Paul appointed Barnabas the title of Apostle. Barnabas took up for Peter when Paul was nasty to him.

        Do you actually study this Bible that you believe in?

        It seems you don't understand why there could only be twelve Apostles.

  15. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    There had to be Twelve Apostles

    KJV

    Luke 22:28-30
    28. Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
    29. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
    30. That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Revelations 21:10-14
    10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God
    11. Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
    12. And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
    13. On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates
    14. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    RSV

    "You are those who have continued with Me in My trials; and I assign to you, as My Father assigned to Me, a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Luke 22:28-30 RSV

    "And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed; on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:10-14 RSV

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm fully aware of these passages.  It's interesting that Jesus spoke of the twelve thrones before Judas had betrayed him (see Luke 22:22).  The original 12, less Judas, plus either Matthias or Paul (God knows), will be the twelve foundation stones and judges.  Even if Paul was not of the twelve, it doesn't mean he wasn't an apostle, just like Barnabas.  At least I'll find out one day; if you reject the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, you may not get to see the day...according to the words of Jesus Christ:

      Luke 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John [the Baptist]; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it."

      John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day."  Thus, we go back to judging.  I AM will be your judge on the last day, and to this I solemnly testify (Acts 10:42).  Peace out ~

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The scriptures say Matthias was appointed by God, The Eleven Apostles prayed about it. It was not Paul. So not only God knows, we do too.
        Paul taught everything different than Christ and the Apostles.

        We shouldn't wait to find out one day. We should know truth today.

        You continue to say because I don't believe in your and Paul's doctrine that I don't know God.

        Who are you?

      2. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It's interesting? You do know that Matthias was the true Apostle from the beginning,(even though he had not yet been appointed. however Judas was there because he had to betray Christ to fulfill the law.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ...as you say...to FULFILL the Law.  Amen.

          1. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Fulfill means to bring to completion or reality.
            This filled that one law. Not all the law.

            The Mosaic Law contains rules we must follow.

            If it is the way you believe than we can kill people and just ask forgiveness than kill again.

            That's not what is meant.

            Each law must be fulfilled one by one.

            Christ fulfilled the law about the prophesies of his life and death.

            He also obeyed the Mosaic Laws.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              All of them? smile

            2. Judah's Daughter profile image89
              Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus was born a Jew and did not sin.  He kept the whole Law, which no one else could.  He fulfilled it in its entirety and forever accomplished what was required of God to save us...if we accept Him as the Lamb of God by His grace through faith (Heb 11:28; Eph 2:8-9).  Israel that rejects salvation in this manner has Her branches cut off (but can be grafted in "again" by faith); Gentiles are saved by faith.  This is spiritual Israel, whereby the scriptures declare "All Israel will be saved" (Rom 11:23-26).  We are back to the days of Abraham (400 years before the Law was given to Moses), and all who are saved by faith are Abraham's seed (Gal 3:29).  Again, I'm not trying to convert you...just respond to you.

  16. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Judah I posted a comment to your hub about Moshe's law and I know you probably won't approve it so I am posting my comment here.
    *********************************************
    Just because a person keeps the law does not mean he follows Karaism (Sadduce).
    Christ kept the law, taught the law and expounded the law. He said "it is written thou shall not kill, but I say unto you, he who is angry with his brother without cause, is in danger of the judgment." His sayings were even harder. It is easy to not kill, but to not be angry without cause is hard. 
    Those who say the law is dead are those who just can't keep the law and deny it is important.
    Matthew 5:22
    "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

  17. profile image0
    Audreveaposted 6 years ago

    I'm so impressed by your depth of knowledge Deborah. Wish I could read koine Greek.

    I'm working on beginner Latin.

    1. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you so much for your kind words.
      Latin is great. It's a language of a lot of people and is important on the job.

      A lot of people who have learned English felt it was a very hard language. The reason was because of all of our words that are spelled the same but have different meanings. Plus all the words that sound the same but are spelled differently.

      i.e. dear, deer
      gee, my mind went blank. I'm tired. It's 12.19 PM

      Need help with Greek?

      1. profile image0
        Audreveaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        rank beginner. Would need to start with the alphabet and go from there!

        It's so interesting through. I can't pronounce it either - can't get that back of the throat sound right.

  18. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    All Paul's teachings

    Yet Yahshua's teachings are rejected.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The Jews love(d) the Law more than Christ; that's what Christ's message to them was about, and subsequently the apostles' message to the Jews, also.  If the Jews loved Jesus and His message, they would not have crucified Him, let alone killed the prophets and apostles.  Jesus said He came "only to the lost sheep of Israel" (Mat 15:24) and also said "I have other sheep that are not of this fold" [Gentiles] (John 10:16).  He, the Rock, became, and is, a Rock of offense to the Jews who wish to hold to the Law, rejecting His gospel of salvation by grace through faith (Rom 9:33; 2 Pet 2:7-8).

  19. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    Even so, he would have known the laws better than any of the apostles, being a scribe & law enforcer. This man -who lived by the law and killed to protect it- is showing that even the greatest expression of keeping even a minute speck of the law, cannot in any measure bring us into the righteousness.

    Even if you dismiss these correspondences of S/Paul -which account for 3/4 of the biblical new testament, the other writers say the same thing. Including John & Peter.

  20. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    1. Matthew 5:18
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Heaven and Earth have not ended

    1. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      a. Matthew 5 and 20.

      b. heaven/earth is representative of the human spirit/body.

      c. For He himself says: the former things have passed away. I make all things new. (see revelation).
      This was the revealing work of the resurrection John is speaking of.

      I do admire those who have great passion for the law, but find it odd, even knowing the law, the prophets and the works of the Father, still hold on to these old ways. Is it fear of losing themselves or the traditions? I often wonder.

    2. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Regarding Mat 5:17-18 let's write these verses here, and understand that Jesus had not died on the cross yet when He spoke these words:

      "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

      Heb 7:28 “Moses' Teachings designated mortals as chief priests even though they had weaknesses. But God's promise, which came after Moses' Teachings, designated the Son who forever accomplished everything that God required.”

      Luke 24:44 “Now He said to them, 'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

      Rom 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Rom 11:25, 27 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uniformed of this mystery: And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins."

      Gal 3:19 "Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator [Moses], until the seed [Jesus] would come to whom the promise had been made."

      1 Tim 3:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

      Compare

      Mat 5:20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

      2 Cor 5:21 "He [God] made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him [Jesus]."

  21. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    matthew 6 an 21:

    ...for where your treasure is, there your heart will also be...

    [great song too by Iona)

  22. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Not once have I said that we are ONLY to keep the written law as the Sadduces (Karaism) did.

    The Kingdom of God is within us. We are to seek God and his Righteousness.
    But what person seeking God, knowing we are the Temple of God, would break his law on purpose?
    The law was not done away with and never will be until it's all over.

    I knew people believed in Paul's teachings but I never realized they believed it over Yahshua's.

    No prophet at anytime has said God's law is no longer in force.

    The only time we see this is in Paul's writings.

    Paul had a lot of spiritual issues and could not do what he knew was right so he taught this.

    People, reread Paul's epistles again and this time see what he has written.


    Peter was not playing a Jew. Peter was a Hebrew.
    Paul was a Hebrew to the Hebrews and a Greek to the Greeks.

  23. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    That seems somewhat contradictory, since Paul never claimed to abolish the law, but that the Hebrew teachers would realize something GREATER than the law had come. Y`shua IS the law & the prophets. Rather than dispute his writings, why not attempt to discern them and test them -as we should- for validity in day to day life.

    Side note: he was warned many times not to propagate the notion of grace over law -especially in Rome, where the wealthy Jews lived. These were once his 'brothers' and eventually the one's who had him killed, as well as Peter, in an attempt to stop the 'spread' of the believers.

    James & Jude mention this in their letters as well.
    Why single out S/Paul, when all the writers we know of imply the same thing, right? All the apostles were Hebrews and followers of the law. All of them say the same thing -grace is above the law and all it parts/works- just as the mercy seat rests on top of the ark, which seals the law, the manna, the staff in the heart of the believer.

  24. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    No one knows exactly how Paul died, but it is believed that Nero the Roman emperor had him killed. Not the Hebrews.

    I have read and tested. I suggest others do this too.

    Paul studied and stole a lot of teachings from the Apostles then perverted them.

    Paul was not an Apostle of God.
    He has deceived millions.

  25. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Back to the subject.

    The Pauline (Christian) doctrine has been spread throughout the world. You can go to the remote parts of the earth and you will hear people speaking about Jesus. The only ones that call Yahshua Jesus are the Greeks and the English speaking people (those who are born English) so this is the Christian doctrine.

    Since we know the Pauline Christian doctrine has been heard of by everyone, then why has not the end come?

    Matthew 24:14
    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    So apparently the true Gospel has not been preached.

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Rom 11:25-26 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."  Remember what I shared earlier about "spiritual Israel" and the branches that were cut off that can be grafted in again?  This is what the Lord is waiting for.  In the words of Peter in 2 Pet 3:9, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I believe nothing Paul wrote except what he copied from the others.

        God may be slow with his Promises, but what he says occurs

  26. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    hmmm, perhaps a misinterpretation.
    The correspondence of S/Paul and all the others, ends around "70 AD", just as Rome destroys the temple and half of Jerusalem. That is the end of Hebrew authority over the law and entrance of the time of gentiles.

    We should remember there was/is no 'Christian Doctrine' but a common belief in Y`shua and Him resurrected. S/Paul taught this the same as the Twelve. If what you are saying is accurate, then the entire teaching of ALL the apostles is false as well as Y`shua teachings, since Paul continuously & almost violently stressed the work of the Father through Y`shua.

    ...just a thought.

  27. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Paul knew that no one, including the real Apostles believed him.

    No other Apostle felt the need to tell others they weren't lying.

    Romans 9:1
    I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

    2 Corinthians 11:31
    The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

    Galatians 1:20
    Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

    1 Timothy 2:7
    Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


    ************************************
    When Christ was not believed, he simply said "If you don't believe me, believe the works that I do"

    1. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So, dismissing S/Paul's correspondence, we are left with the writings of: The Four, James, Jude, Peter & the letter of Hebrews - since we must also dismiss Timothy, Philemon and Titus, yes or no?

      So even without S/Paul, the message regarding the law v grace is still the message -the good news (gospel). So then, the Grace of the Father -through Y`shua's work, our humility of that work and boldness of the Anointing - is the true faith. An action of transforming the corruptible into the incorruptible, body, mind & spirit.

      Because if only the law is included, then only the true Hebrews are saved. Those before the law are lost as well as those after, when the law was hidden in the ark and still after when the temple/sacrifice destroyed. Where then should the King of David's house reign?

      By that perspective, the Savior has not yet come...

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What if we reject none of them, instead we adjust our interpretations of what we think that they were saying in such a way as to see the image of something that they were in agreement in.
           This is hard to do, rejecting our own interpretations and all.
           But it can be done.
        If the bible is the "Inspired word of GOD" 

           There would have to be a common truth if we looked in the right place ???

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I am with you on that.
          Ironically, this is much of what S/Paul said.
          Renew your mind to the Spirit and let go of this concept of limited thinking/law/sin/death, etc. Start living abundantly in the TRUE Life, not the interpreted one.

          1. Jerami profile image77
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Still waters run deep. 
              All too often when we find the truth (understanding of it) comes in layers; just as when we peal off the layers of an onion.  It often seems as though we have found the truth just to find another layer. 
               Will We ever get to the heart of the matter.

  28. Lady Rose profile image73
    Lady Roseposted 6 years ago

    You know what, guys? During all this time you spent arguing over hair spliting doctrines, many people died without anyone telling them about Jesus.  Why dont you just  go out and witness to someone, instead of trying to prove your points about something that is not even practical or necessary to bring Salvation to others? Who cares about Peter or Paul? Jesus is the one who gave his life for you. Follow Him

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And how many might be prevented from the gospel that would read this thread, if not for the saints' intervention?  God knows the hearts.  The great commission given to the apostles was to take the gospel to the Jews first (Acts 1:8; Rom 1:16).  Let each do as s/he is called to do by the Holy Spirit.

    2. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      People have to know truth before they can teach about Yahshua (Jesus)

      Paul did not teach truth. He led people away from the truth.

      People believe the writings of Paul before they believe Christ and the twelve Apostles.

      1. profile image0
        SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        What did Judas write that was so great? Keep in mind that he had a devil.

        I am out of here for a while.

        1. profile image0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Judas did not write anything and was not a true Apostle. He was put there to fulfill the prophecy. Matthias was the true 12th Apostle.

          Have you read the scriptures Mr. Dent?

          1. profile image0
            Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Matthias was grafted/elected by 'drawing straws'.
            The Judas -i think- he speaking of is Jude, yes?

            1. profile image0
              Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No he meant Judas Iscariot who betrayed Yahshua.

              The Apostle Matthias was not grafted in and the eleven Apostles asked God to choose.

              1. profile image0
                Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                right, out of 120+ candidates, then cast lots and the lot fell on Matthias, if not mistaken.

                Straws, lots, dice -even a dreidel -pretty much the same thing, no?

            2. Judah's Daughter profile image89
              Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jude was the half-brother of Jesus :-)

              1. profile image0
                Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                brother of James, cousin (half brother) of Y`shua. smile

          2. profile image0
            SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I have read them. Originally you listed Judas Iscariot as one of the original 12 apostles. Now you say he was not an apostle.

            Let us know which he was, according to you, so we will know where you stand. There is too much confusion here already.

  29. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    As is mentioned in the post above.....
       Matthew 24:14
    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    So apparently the true Gospel has not been preached.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
      There is much truth in this statement.
    We should all take a monent and ponder upon it..

      ???     ,,,,      !                   ?? ...


    ... , ???????????.   


         The end of what?? 
      The prophesy of the OT was written to those Hebrew people over 500 years before there was a thing called a Christian,
      These prophesy were pertaining to THAT Hebrew Nation that it was given to;       ponder  ???      ponder ???
        and NOT to a group of people that is to come into existence after the fulfillment of the coming of the Messiah??????

       This statement also should  be pondered..

    1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      As I shared with Deb, Jerami:

      Rom 11:25-26 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."  Remember what I shared earlier about "spiritual Israel" and the branches that were cut off that can be grafted in again?  This is what the Lord is waiting for.  In the words of Peter in 2 Pet 3:9, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I know. You are still quoting Paul.

  30. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Matthew - Is part of the Gospel and was written by the disciple Matthew
    Mark - Is part of the Gospel and was written by the disciple Mark. He was a follower of Yahshua.
    John - Is the final gospel and was written by the disciple, John.

    Luke - Luke was  a friend of the the self made apostle, Paul. Though this is considered by many to be a part of the Gospel, Luke said he wrote it so his followers could be certain that the Gospel was true. Luke did not know Yahshua. He copied the work of the three Gospels and put it in his own words.

    Acts - The book of Acts was also written by Luke

    Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon - These books were all written by the Paul.

    Hebrews - The author of this book is unknown, but many think it was written by Paul or someone close to Paul.

    James wrote James, Peter was supposed to have written 1 & 2 Peter, John wrote 1, 2 & 3 John, and Jude

    Revelation - This last book of the Bible was written by the disciple John.

    1. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So are you dismissing the entire 'new testament' -or at least most of it -save the seven, and if so -apart from S/Paul- why?

      -it is highly unlikely S/Paul wrote Hebrews since no man spoke the gospel to him. It is believed he was taken into the desert and taught by the Spirit. Hebrews states that those writing it were spoken the gospel directly. Note the plural.

    2. tonymac04 profile image89
      tonymac04posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am generally impressed with your knowledge, Deborah, but I have to differ with you here. It is generally accepted by Biblical scholars that the Synoptics were not infact written by the Apostles who's names they bore, but were put together by others about 100 years after the death of Jesus.

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Tony thank you for your kind words. When I saw you had commented my immediate response was that of feeling honored.
        I know you are a teacher and not only educated but highly intelligent.
        I have read some of your hubs and love your expression in your writings.
        I also respect your opinions. You are probably right about the time periods of the preparation and publication of the scripture.

        I know that pieces of writings were found. I have learned that there were many factors in the preparation such as writing styles, text, the writing materials and when they existed. Each that appeared to be by the same author was put together in what is called a book (chapter)
        Some books have mentioned the names such as in Revelations where John is mentioned.

        I certainly don't know everything or even an iota of everything. I am however willing with an open mind to learn.  Truth is very important to me in general.
        When I receive, I like to give.
        I give from the heart and my intentions are always to share and to help.

        Tony, I have tried to find your hub about the death of your brother and of your brother-in-law but because you have so many hubs I have not been able to find it. Could you give me the link?

  31. profile image0
    SirDentposted 6 years ago

    I wonder how many who have posted on this thread are disciples and how many are apostles.

    Anyone care to answer?

    1. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There were no more Apostles after the final twelve.

      However there are teachers.

      1. profile image0
        SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So then tell me how Paul was not a teacher even if he wasn't an apostle.

        It seems there is so much crap on the interent that it is no wonder no one can find truth. Everyone wants to have their say and nothing is going to stop them from having it no matter what it is.

    2. Judah's Daughter profile image89
      Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      True or false? lol

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If you are going to start with your non-christian snide remarks I will ignore you.
        Please do not start hijacking the thread. Start your own and tell why you like Paul.

        1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
          Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Excuse me, you have called Paul a false apostle (and now, not an apostle at all)...I'm not hijacking the thread.  SirDent asked a question, which you have obviously given your answer to...

    3. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It seems as though we have so many light houses along the beach that the port is hidden behind too much light.

         My grand pa always said that when we get confused we should back up and look for a simple answer.

         I always took that to mean  "forget what I was thinking"
      and start over with the basics. I Don't remember if he said it first or not, but some other famous person once said; 
      "Keep it simple; stupid"  I "try" to do these things.

  32. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    Here are three of the Forum Rules

    # Stick to the Topic: Please stay on the thread’s topic when replying to an existing thread. If you don’t see an open thread about something you’d like to discuss, please open a new thread.
    # Respect:Please maintain respect for other Hubbers, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them. Keep your language clean and don’t make personal attacks.
    # Be Helpful and Supportive: We’re all here to learn, so please be constructive when providing feedback.

    Making Personal Attacks: debate and disagreements on points of substance are all right, but personal attacks, petty bickering, and thread hijacking will be dealt with swiftly.

    1. profile image0
      SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Who is hijacking the thread? Who is making personal attacks? Are you really here to learn?

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Here to learn? No not from you. sorry.

        1. profile image0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You are very good at ignoring questions and comments while trying to make everyone else look bad.

          Believe what you want, but expect to be called out when you start crappy threads like this.

          1. profile image0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You are not calling me out and you are not asking questions. You are being argumentative, calling me names and being condescending.

            I have not attacked anyone. I am challenging a doctrine. You however are trying to start a fight.

            Start your own thread if this one is crappy.


            There are others who may be interested.

            Please don't start your usual fight with me.

            1. profile image0
              SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              My last post here. You started this thread, not for discussion. It was simply to push your agenda and get you a couple of pats on the back. Anyone who disagrees with you, you call out for being hasteful and spiteful.

              This is the truth. The grace of God is much better than the grace of  men.

              1. profile image0
                Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Disputing my claims is fine. Stating I think I am Apostle Deborah Sexton and saying that I have lost God and need to find Christ is not disputing what I have written. It is judgment and attack and has nothing to do with the topic.

                Instead of trying to start a fight..lay out your reasons you disagree and use scripture to do so. That is the adult way.

                Attacking by calling names means the person is angry and out of control.

  33. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    So you think that casting lots is drawing straws? smile

    Acts 1:21-26

    Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
    And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
    And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


    Paul wrote acts. Paul wasn't even considered

    1. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I was taught Luke write acts, not S/Paul, who was a friend of the apostles and S/Paul.

      1. Judah's Daughter profile image89
        Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Internet research agrees that Luke probably wrote the book of Acts.

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I would say yes in part and perhaps Barnabas and Timothy had a hand in it, since they traveled much with S/Paul. Because it shows both sides -Peter & James as well as S/Paul's ministries.

          It opens with an account of the ascension which S/Paul was not a witness of...

      2. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, you are right. It was Luke. I was thinking of Paul and wrote his name instead of Luke's.
        I have already stated Luke wrote acts here: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/42551?page=6#post989530

        However Luke was a friend of Paul.

  34. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    S/Paul isn't mentioned until 'chapter' 8, when he approves Stephens death and then went after Phillip and pretty much all the believers.

  35. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    Not to cause waves in an already choppy ocean, but what examples support this notion? If S/Paul was a false teacher why did he constantly rebuke/instruct against sin and its works? As Jude defines them in his correspondence.

    This I am actually curious about.

    1. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Because in order to infiltrate you have to gain people's trust. He used truths in part and then added his own instructions.

      Remember, Paul said he was everything to every man. He stated this was to win people to Christ. However, because he was well known and observed by many, he said this to explain why he was always this way and that way in case he was caught.

      1. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Interesting.
        One view of that would be he became a Hebrew to Hebrews, Roman to the Romans -since he was both. The other two -Greek & even quoting pagans, makes it curious. Yet, throughout his mission, even facing death a few times, refused to let go of the teaching. No doubt his method was not soft by any means compared to say John or even what we know of Peter. Still, even the most pompous false teacher would run for the hills when confronted. Perhaps he is saying he became like them to show that each type of person belongs to the Father and no matter their background, education, heritage or social place, have full access to the KoH through faith? Perhaps, at times, like others, his ministry got in the way of The Ministry...

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And to refresh, my position has always been: what was written in the letters/books is not the 'gospel truth' but a collection of stories pertaining to the truth. So, Genesis to Revelation all point to Y`shua.

  36. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    1 Corinthians 9:19: “For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.”

    1 Corinthians 9:22  “To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.”


    1 Cor. 9:21, “To them that are without law, as without law, (BEING NOT WITHOUT LAW TO GOD, BUT UNDER THE LAW TO CHRIST,) that I might gain them that are without law.”

    1 Cor. 9:27 “But I discipline my body and BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified

    In Acts 21 The Jews took Paul and removed him from the Temple
    Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

    So when the Soldiers came and took him to the castle before the Chief Captian, they identified Paul as an Egyptian. In verse 39 Paul says he is a Jew of Tarsus and then spoke Hebrew so the people would believe him. He is not trying to win souls here, he is trying to save his own life. In Acts 22  Paul relates to them how God chose him. (which is inconsistent with another account of his deliverance)

    In Acts 22 the people don't except what Paul has said so the Chief Captain has him bound.
    So then in verse 25 Paul says he is a Roman, not to witness but to save his own life.
    And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?

    In Galatians he makes himself a Gentile ..Galatians 3:13,14

    1. profile image0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, again, this only further shows his earnest toward Christ. Sure, he used his influence among the Hebrews, Romans even Greeks and Ethiopians to preach Christ. He knew well it was illegal for a roman citizen to be bound, etc.

      Still, where are the specific instances he is found invalid in the teachings toward any of them...

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It simply shows he lied to save his life.

        Did Christ?

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          How did he lie? He simply exercised what he already knew and had every human right to do, yes? The Roman's knew it, the Hebrews scribes knew and of course, he knew it himself. I don't see how he lied and no one among the twelve or other believers proclaimed anything against him, that I am aware of.

        2. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          He didn't lie, he just used his influence as both a Hebrew and Roman to avoid punishment. Many throughout history from Adam to Christ did. I am not justifying him using it only clarifying it wasn't a lie.

          But reading through his correspondences, I see nothing to support he taught falsely, in fact he emphasized that we all should live in grace through faith in the work of Y`shua, not by powers of man or manipulation of earthly or spiritual forces. But genuine, expressive faith. Oddly, it also shows he was against organized theology.

      2. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I have pointed out some of his false teachings. Compare his to Christs by reading his writings.

        1. profile image0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, i didn't see them. Can you point me to them, thx.

  37. Lady Rose profile image73
    Lady Roseposted 6 years ago

    When Judas died, the remaining apostles cast lots to see which one of their fellow disciples would be chosen to take Judas place. That was the common trend in those days. But nevertheless, it was a decision made by men. Mathias was not chosen by Jesus,but by some method His disciples used.
    Who was chosen by Jesus to be his 12th disciple? Jesus went the extra mile by casting Saul off his horse, blinding him and convicting him of his wrongdoing in persecuting His children, which was the same as persecuting Jesus Himself. He directed the blinded Saul to one of the disciples, who had a dream about it and was ready to pray for him on arrival. Paul got his training and went right off to preach exactly the opposite he was doing a few days before, regardless of his reputation or sanity being on stage. Paul was a radical, whole hearted man who loved God and wanted to please Him more than anybody else. This is why Jesus chose him directly and He did not go for the casting lots on dear Matthias, of whom we never heard at all.
    Paul may have said wrong things here and there, but so did Peter and all the other apostles that wrote epistles. Men make mistakes. But the Spirit of what they wrote is in line with God´s Holy Spirit and if you dont believe it, just look at the fruit of the Word in millions of personal lives thru the ages.

    1. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend Lady Rose

      And what is your source to the truthfulness of the above? I think it is just your imagination

      Thanks

      1. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        paar "sockpuppet" surrey, perhaps you should not implicate imagination to another person, as it is a personal attack of sorts.

        perhaps, in your wisdom can impart valid facts of the aforementioned, instead of jumping thread to thread stirring the pot, yes?

  38. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Who is and is not a true disiple in of little importance until they try to sit down in the twelve chairs at the judgment table, as promised by Jesus. 
       For this reason I believe that Judas  will be sitting at that table. 

       I think that many things were spoken to the origional 12 that do not apply to any other disciples that came later by the choices of man.

    1. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And Paul was not one of the 12; he learnt nothing from Jesus directly.

      Thanks

      1. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is not accurate according to Acts, written in part by Luke and others. He was led into the desert for a time and taught. this is what surprised the apostles, at his 360 turn from killing believers to boldly -even more boldly than they- proclaiming the Truth in Christ, yes? Stephens death, by S/Pauls hand was the turning point where the Father intervened and moved him to repentance.

        1. profile image0
          Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          He told two different stories about this and they contradicted. Then he told a third story when he was delivered up.

          Paul constantly lied.

      2. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.

        The Apostles prayed and asked God to choose and the lot fell on Matthias.
        Paul wasn't even considered. It was between Matthias and another person.

        Paul said he was appointed an Apostle with no evidence

  39. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Jerami wrote:
    Who is and is not a true disiple in of little importance until they try to sit down in the twelve chairs at the judgment table, as promised by Jesus. For this reason I believe that Judas will be sitting at that table. I think that many things were spoken to the origional 12 that do not apply to any other disciples that came later by the choices of man.
    ======================
    paarsurrey  said     And Paul was not one of the 12; he learnt nothing from Jesus directly.

    Thanks
    ===============================
      Paul was not of the chosen 12 .. Paul as far as I can tell will not ge given a seat at the judgment table.  But everyone that followed performed the task that was assigned to them. 

      That is all that I will say for now.

  40. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago

    John 5:43

    I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


    John 5:41-47
    41. I receive not honour from men.

    42. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

    43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

    45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

    46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

    47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

  41. aesmith2009 profile image80
    aesmith2009posted 6 years ago

    I believe what I believe and I'm not here to argue with anyone. First, I'm young but I do know that the bible says you must study to shew thyself apporved rightly dividing the word of truth. What anyone belives should be based on their personal relationship with the Lord and the knowledge they have gained from their own studying, not from what they have heard or been taught. However, it is not a one man show because the Bible also says, how can they hear without a preacher (I have always assumed that hear meant understand in this text). Like Ms. Saxton, I was raised in the church and am a pastor's daughter. I have seen hypocrits and have asked questions that pastors and scholars could not answer. That hasn't caused me to stop believing in Jesus Christ. There are a lot of different religions out there and I guess we'll wait until judgment day to see who got it right. smile Nonetheless, God is not the author of any confusion so if you don't like or agree with Ms. Saxton then move on to the next post. I am a Christian, and if I have it wrong I pray God will allow me to figure that out before I die and its too late. But, as a Christian I believ it is my duty to let others no about God and His grace and mercy and about faith and all the things that make my life quite pleasant here on Earth. If someone turns me away, then so be it, I cannot force someone to do what they don't wish to do, all I can do is put the message out there. I said ALL of that to say this. Ms. Saxton is putting her message out there and whether or not you believe in it you shouldn't be drawn into angry Bible verse competitions about it. The Bible says let the wheat and the tare grow together and He will do the separating. I do have one question though, are you (Ms. Saxton) saying that you don't believe in the Gospel (as in Jesus dying on the cross) because someone mentioned that earlier or you just don't belive the writings of Paul?

    1. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend aesmith2009

      I for one don't believe that the Gospel represent what Jesus believed and taught. The Word revealed by the Creator- God Allah YHWH on Jesus has been little mentioned in these Gospels. These are not written by Jesus himself or dictated by him, not even written by someone whom Jesus would have authorized to write them. The Gospel writers were not even eye-witnesses of the even of crucifixion; they were deserters of Jesus.

      Jesus never died on the Cross; if one read the Gospels with an eye of Cross-examining them, one can see through their inner game of only fullfilling the agenda of Paul and the Church.

      Paul saw no vision; it is simply a made up story.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. profile image0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The Gospels are Matthew, Mark and John.
        The others are considered Epistles.

        I doubt her minister parents would appreciate you wanting to turn her to the Muslim faith. I believe it would upset you if someone tried to get your children to believe in the Bible.

    2. profile image0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for commenting. You are more knowledgeable than many twice your age.

      I am only disputing what Paul taught. What I see is a man who promoted himself and taught against what Christ did.

  42. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    The truth be told, they are all made up stories! lol

  43. MickS profile image76
    MickSposted 6 years ago

    There is either a God, or there isn't.  If there isn't, it doesn't matter; if there is a God, this ancient book is either His word, or it isn't. If it isn't, it doesn't matter; if it is, then it isn't open to debate or intepretation.  No wonder it has caused so much trouble over the centuries, people can't make up their minds, and all suffer with the, 'I am right, you are wrong,' disease.  This has to be the biggest case of divide and rule ever.

    1. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Lets suppose that there is a God and lets suppose that the bible is indeed his written word.

        The problem would then be that everyone gets to say what they think he said.
        I would think that this is the reason that when God wanted to send a message to mankind that he gave this message to only one person and instructed him to deliver the one true message to everyone.
        He didn't give the message to many people cause he knew that it would then get messed up.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOL This is the best argument for there not being a god that you have made.

        If I was god - I would have given everyone the message into their head in a way that made them all understand and not fight about it.

        But - that would require omnipotence. Oh wait......... lol

        1. Jerami profile image77
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Too many Chefs in the kitchen will always ruin the Chilli

 
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