As requested by our friend AdeleCosgroveBray,in the above post, I start this thread.
Ahmadiyya or who are sometimes called Ahmadi peaceful Muslims are those people who believe Muhammad as the Seal of the Prophets Messengers and who believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 to be the same Messiah or Jesus in the Second Coming or Imam Mahdi about the advent of whom Muhammad had himself prophesied at end of times . In fact Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the same End of Times Reformer about whose advent one finds prophecies in all revealed religions. Spread of the Truthful Religion is to be done very peacefully under the guidance of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad with reasonable, rational and brilliant arguments.
In fact all revealed religions of the world, who have become dead due to not protecting and securing the Word revealed on their truthful founders, are to be revived again and to be united to make one living Religion .Quran is the pristine Revelation they would follow and in Muhammad’s teachings and character they all will merge, very peacefully and truthfully.
For more information about Ahmadiyya one could access the official website of our peaceful community at the following link:
This is in short.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Salaam Bro plz visit and share this AHmadiyya Blog jazakallah
Why would Mirza Ghulam Ahmad come as the second coming of Jesus. Why would he not be just Jesus?
Or. Imam mehdi ... why don't you know if he is Jesus or Imam Mehdi ... He must have told you guys that much at least.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (pbuh) is the second coming of Jesus in a symbolic sense as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had given prophecies that his Ummah will become like the Jews (highly divided with infighting and absorbed by an ideology of violence). Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said that just like Jesus Christ (pbuh) came to the Jews, a Messiah will come to the Muslims too to bring them back to the true teachings of Islam and to abolish the false ideologies. This is why he used the term "Second Coming of Jesus"-- meaning that events will repeat in his Ummah as they did with the Jews. Just like the events you are seeing happen in the Muslim world today.
The term "Imam Mahdi" is just another reference for The Messiah to come. Imam Mahdi means "Guided Leader". The Messiah and Imam Mahdi have come to be understood as separate personages but in fact they are two references for the same heavenly guide.
Using symbols and allegories is a common method in holy books and Holy Quran to explain events such as explained by the following verse of the Holy Quran:
[13:35] The similitude of the Heaven promised to the God-fearing is, that through it flow streams, its fruit is everlasting, and its shade. That is the reward of those who are righteous; and the reward of the disbelievers is Fire.
[18:54] And, surely, We have explained in various ways in this Qur’an, formankind, all similitude (or examples), but of all things man is most contentious.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (pbuh) proved the natural death of Jesus from Quran and other research. If you believe the same Jesus is coming back who lived 2,000 years ago then you have reconcile it with following verses of The Quran:
[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengerslike unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
[3:144] And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he dies or be slain, will you turn back on your heels? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all. And Allah will certainly reward the grateful.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (pbuh) has explained all this in great detail with many book written on this subject. If you want some extra detail on the subject below are a couple of Hubs . . .
http://amer786.hubpages.com/hub/The-Sec … lam-Part-2
http://amer786.hubpages.com/hub/Did-Jes … Israelites
Ok so Mirza ghulam ahmad was a good scholar. That does not make him a prophet in my opinion. I will read more about him in detail then will get back to you.
From what I know : Jesus will come down and help fight against yajuj majuj. Gog Magog. And he will address the Christians and tell them to follow the path of Muhammad.
Anyways. Will do some research before I talk further.
Interesting, that is what I have heard the Christians say when your co-religious try to substantiate your holy book and prophet from the bible.
But not good for the world. It is because people believe such 9/11, London, Bombay, Pak......Paris happens.
All these attacks are instigated by the West especially USA and UK.
Where did all these Islamic terrorist attacks start from in the modern era? In the last 50 years? When USA supplied the terrorist groups they created with weapons? The wars in Iraq in the late 80's and 90's? It all stems from George Bush senior and his 'New World Order'.
They have made a very long term plan and it is going according to their plan to create a world war 3 by creating hatred towards Muslims. They are being successful at it.
9/11 was guaranteed a Zionist plan where all Jews took leave on the day of the attack. The 'plane' that apparently crashed into the Pentagon wasn't even a plane. It was a rocket. If not then where were the wings and tyres??? Doesn't that say something? Maybe not to you because you are blind and deaf. Open your eyes to what USA is doing to your people. You are being used with strings being pulled by your government.
It is the Zionists plan to blame the Muslims with every terrorist attack. It is going well.
I don't know where you get your information, but more than 250 Jews died in the collapse of the Twin Towers. They did not take the day off; they were working just like the other innocent victims in the buildings. The attacks on the Twin Towers and other sites in America on September 9, 2011, were carried out at the direction of Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist group Al-Qaeda.
According to the 9/11 Commission Report, both black boxes from Flight 77 and both black boxes from Flight 93 were recovered. These were, of course, from aircraft not rockets.
"Where did all these Islamic terrorist attacks start from in the modern era?" They started with the 1979 Iranian Revolution which deposed the Shah and instituted Shi'a law under Ayatollah Khomeini. Iranian militants then seized 52 American diplomats and citizens living in Iran and held them hostage for 444 days. This was in the term of U.S. President Jimmy Carter. The hostages were finally released on the day U.S. President Ronald Reagan took office, right after the Iran-Iraq War started.
In response to a diplomatic outreach to Iran by U.S. President Barak Obama, Iranian Supreme Leader Khomeini said in a public speech on March 21, 2009: "Today, you are hated throughout the world. If you don't know this, you should. The peoples burn your flag. The Islamic peoples all over the world chant: "Death to America!"
In a campaign speech on May 8, 2013, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said: "Saying 'Death to America' is easy. We need to express 'Death to America' with action. Saying it is easy."
Here is a list of recent Iranian sponsored terrorist attacks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_s … _terrorism
Here is a list of recent terrorist attacks in Pakistan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_ … an_in_2014
And here is a list of Islamic terrorist attacks all over the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Is … st_attacks
People will stop blaming Muslims for terrorist attacks when Muslims stop committing terrorist attacks.
Osama bin Laden and others of his likeness would love to have orchestrated what happened on 9-11. And they wanted to. And they’re ideologically inclined to it. Nobody would deny that. But, that is what makes the deception so plausible. There are millions around the world, and I am not talking about the conspiracy theory types, who believe that OBL and his band of cave-trotting rag-a-tags could not have pulled this off. In 9-11 we have a lot of evidence at our disposal . . .
- People who have never flown a real (non-simulator) jetliner in their lives apparently hijack these aircraft, and precision fly these into buildings at high speeds. The website pilotsfor911truth.org (authenticated by real pilots with stated identifications and credentials) states that the speeds at which these planes struck the buildings need to be restated because jetliners cannot fly at 400+ knots just a thousand feet off the ground where the atmosphere is too thick, the planes would disintegrate let alone let pilots flying them with such ease and precision. Some theorists have stated if the speeds are to be believed then these must be planes with reinforced structures crafted to fly at those speeds and also containing some eventual explosive disintegration mechanism as they practically disappeared. At least the titanium engines should have survived in some demented but recognizable form as they are built to bear very high levels of heat.
- The buildings themselves were built with a netting structure on the outside frame and a steel core in the middle to absorb hits by aircrafts albeit older aircrafts but jetliners nevertheless. The buildings show no sign of bend or collapse and the heat levels were bearable enough for firemen to be making their way up towards the fire which itself was smoldering being starved of oxygen. Steel requires something like 2,000+ degrees of sustained heat levels to melt. Yet the buildings disintegrated and a demolition wave moves through them at the speed of gravity. The official 9-11 Commission report states a ‘pancake’ collapse as the support between floors weakens and gives way and they start collapsing on top of each other building momentum on the way down. This would not happen this close to the speed of gravity, and the piled floors would be discernable once the collapse was complete. The only plausible explanation/theory at this point is that there had to be an elaborate pre-set demolition mechanism to destroy the steel core and fold the buildings so that a demolition wave can move at the rate of gravity.
- NORAD, the fighter jet rapid reaction force is nowhere to be found apparently sent off thousands of miles away for war simulation exercises.
- World Trade Center 7 was not hit by any plane and had limited fire activity but it too folded and disintegrated within seconds. 1,300 professional architects have disagreed with the official report.
- Hani Hanjour, the supposed pilot in the pentagon hit, was refused to rent a Cessna plane in Florida because he was unable to land it at a speed of 60 knots when tested, something most trained pilots are able to do. But, he somehow commandeered a mammoth Boeing 757 and descended 7,000 feet in 2 minutes with a sharp bank turning 300 degrees and then levels the plan 50 feet off the ground at 400 knots and flies in into the 110 feet high façade of the pentagon so perfectly that the entire plane is supposed to have disintegrated into the façade as the titanium engines again supposedly disappeared. The only released video does not even show a plane and most cameras on building exteriors in government offices from around the pentagon that would have caught the plane were apparently seized.
The other terrorist attacks you mention would have been carried out by the extremists themselves, there is nothing implausible there in the facility and capability to execute those acts. As I said, that is what makes the deception real, because the terrorists are real. I should just say that the theories should not cast American government as the primary suspect here. If the theory is true, it would be a highly powerful and secretive order i.e. Masonic, Bilderberg or whatever name you want to give it . . . Anti-Christ! And if that is to be believed, then what an apt word the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) used – “Dajjal”, means “Deceiver”!
Why this much misinformation?
Can I take this as an example of "do anything to spread religion and justify it", by the particular religion under question?
Why didn't you mention, Pak, Bombay and Paris? The ISIS?
When the prophet and his followers attacked other tribes, Persia and even Byzantium, was it at the instigation of USA and UK?
The Ismailis (hashishins) were the creation of UK?
The millions killed in India by Mahmud of Gahzni to Aurengazeb was at the instigation of the British?
The vast majority of females that are covered with purdah and treated as commodities and second class citizens are at the instigation of UK?
Are female circumcisions done because UK condone it?
May I Inquire what exactly is it that you find objectionable?
And May I impress you to maintain dignity and courtesy in your language. You call yourself Muslim. What you say and how you say it becomes associated with Islam and prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
As if its history was peaceful.
Remember Mansur Al hallaj?
That's indiscriminate thinking. Criteria is crucial and a human phenomenon. I don't ask the Jews to answer for what the zealots did, nor do I ask Christians to answer for what Pope Urban and his band of the crusaders did. Because I feel I am able to adequately discriminate with some criteria.
Such broad strokes is also what leads people to what you just said: "believe such 9/11, London, Bombay, Pak......Paris happens".
But I certainly ask the christians, jews and muslims who preach in public that their religion is the best, why they want to push their religion if it is creating strife and killings and if it is nothing but a tool by tyrants to control the masses and to amass wealth and power for themselves and how that which couldn't prevent atrocities be "best"? [without wars/violence Christianity and Islam wouldn't have spread as much as it is now nor could have it kept its followers]
A handful of fools trying to kill may be taken as an exemption but not an intelligent group that uses it education to premeditate and kill..
The zealots were trying to attain freedom for their nation.
But the crusaders were not. Any christian who attempt to justify their religion should be able to explain why their religion is "peaceful" in spite of this and other atrocities committed in the name of their religion. Any Muslim who want to preach and justify about their "peaceful" religion and their right to preach their religion (and say other religion's views are BS - http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/43097?p … ost2696574) should justify and explain how it is peaceful in spite of...
The killing of Mansoor Hallaj or Ali Dashti or even Paris was not a single act. Just like the crusades, they were violent premeditated crimes justified by a great number of people, even a majority.
Even the original author of this forum used "peaceful" Muslim to distinguish himself from those who are not, a christian do not have to do that.
oh so he claimed tht he's mehdi (a.s).....
but islam says tht mehdi (a.s) will come with jesus (pbuh), so where is jesus(pbuh) with him???
paarsurrey! did u forgot tht what mohommad(peace be upon him said) during his last stages of life, " after me 30 fraud persons will calim themselves as prophets but in true iam the last prophet and iam khatimunnabian"
tht ahmed mirza and joseph smith is among tht people....
while im telling u this all as a muslim, these things which islam told me, and u r non musloim infront of me bcuz u had rejected mohommad(pbuh) as the last messenger of Allah.
Hi friend errum fattah
I never rejected Muhammad PBUH; I believe him to be the "Seal of Prophets"- the standard in whose teachings and character all the truthful Prophets are recognized; whether mentioned by name in Quran or not named in it.
It is for this that I believe Moses and Jesus, whose names have been mentioned in Quran as truthful Prophets; and I also believe in Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster,Cyrus; whose name have not been mentioned in Quran, as truthful Prophets Messengers of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. Paul, Joseph Smith Jr., and Bab were false Prophets; and hence their fate; God caused them to be killed.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Quran says Christ ascended into heaven. Ahmadi says no, he moved to India. That honors Mohammed? You changed HIS Quran to justify christ in Ahmadi. Christ is supposed to come back and rule for 40 years. Did Ahmadi? Ahmadi non-muslims are what Pakistan said. A cult.
yes ofcourse devlin... ...thts wat makes ahmadi's belief wrong...
Hi friend DevLin
Please quote the text of such verse from Quran with five preceding and five following verses for the context; then establish your viewpoint from it.
There is no such verse in Quran.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful verse.
For every Moslem who says Paul is a false prophet, there is a Christain saying Mohammed is a false prophet.
What a Shame Paarsurry!!! Even Muslims dont count you as Muslim! And you call your self peaceful Muslim?? Its more like a copyright infringement issue! If you want to believe something different then dont call yourself Muslim! i.e. Muslims do possess similarities with Christianity but they don't call their selves Christians! Do they?
Hi friend Rishy Rich
It is like being Jesus a truthful Prophet; who was spitted on and was lashed and put on the Cross by his fellow religionists Jews; it is only the grace and mercy of the Creator-God Allah YHWH, that Jesus was saved a cursed death on the Cross.
Is there any shame of being one like Jesus? No, it is an honor and a sign of being truthful.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
But thats not what muslims believe. They believe Jesus was lifted up by Allah & someone else was crucified in his place. Muslims dont believe that he died a shameful death. My point is if you believe something else then why call urself muslim?? Muslims do share a lot of things with christians but there are difference too. Thats why they call themselves muslims not christians. Similarly, if u dont believe exactly what muslims believe then u dont have the right to call urself muslim. Its an insult & attack to islamic faith! Making Buddha & Jesus the same person & making mirza, mahdi & jesus the same person requires a lot of proof & evidence. Being truthful without evidence is not truthful at all. Its just a big lie!!!
Hi friend Rishy Rich
But Quran, Muhammad and his companions did not believe that Jesus was lifted up to skies; these are only conjectures of the Radical Muslims; they made up afterwards.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Can you show me a verse from the quran which states Jesus moved to India??
qura 4:157 and God lifted him into his presence
Hi friend DevLin
There is no mention of Jesus being physically and literally going to skies in the verse; you did not mention the verses in the context. I give it below:
[4:154] The People of the Book ask thee to cause a Book to descend on them from heaven. They asked Moses a greater thing than this: they said, ‘Show us Allah openly.’ Then a destructive punishment overtook them because of their transgression. Then they took the calf for worship after clear Signs had come to them, but We pardoned eventhat. And We gave Moses manifest authority
[4:155] And We raised high above them the Mount while making a covenant with them, and We said to them, ‘Enter the gate submissively,’ and We said to them, ‘Transgress not in the matter of the Sabbath.’ And We took from them a firm covenant.
[4:156] Then, because of their breaking of their covenant, and their denial of the Signs of Allah, and their seeking to kill the Prophets unjustly, and their saying: ‘Our hearts are wrapped in covers,’ — nay, but Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not but little —
[4:157] And because of their disbelief and their uttering against Mary a grievous calumny, [4:158] And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty;
[4:159] On the contrary, Allah exalted him to Himself. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … verse=153- Show quoted text -
There is no mention of Jesus lifting up to "skies" or "heaven" from the Cross he was put on, as you can see from the verses.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
From the ahmadi version of the quran. Cult. Rewritten, as a slap in the face of Mohammed.
You didnt answer me Paar...Can you show me a verse from the quran which states Jesus moved to India??
Hi friend Rishy Rich
Quran is very clear on the issue that Jesus was not killed on the Cross. Then Jesus was a free person, not a god or son of god, he could go to any places he wanted to where he could find peace. Some say he went to France or England or to America or to Japan.
Indian history; Hindu Scriptures and Buddhist sources are full of Jesus in India. Please just google for that; you will find many.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Before his minmistry he was in India.
There are no records for his presence after his ministry.
hmm...so your answer is No. From islamic view, If he did move to india or somewhere else then Muhammad & Allah must have known it. Then it must have had been written in Quran. But it isnt. & the most absurd part is that the great Muhammad didnt know, the quran didnt know but ur clan think that they know where Jesus was. Buddy, your faith is a cheap Conspiracy theory & nothing else!
Come on Paar, make up your mind. In one forum, you trash all other scriptures (hindu/buddhist etc), and then cite them as evidence in another.
I am a pissful Forum Spammer.
Hi friend SiddSingh
It is your misunderstanding. Like an old fallen castle; these dead books could be renovated or revived with the help of living Scripture which mentions both claims and reasons; essential for a Truthful Religion; and which these books lost when these got buried in the debris of time. These Books are no good for solving ethical, moral and spiritual problems of humanity unless revived as stated above.
The historians sometimes make use of folklore and stories; in that sense these could still be useful, not as a Religious Code.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Hi friend DevLin
I am not against the truthful followers of Jesus; my intention is to make them truthful followers of Jesus rather than cunning Paul. Please don't get me wrong.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
i dont think tht there is any verse of quran where india's name has been mentioned so how jesus can go to india, and wat he was going to do in india? wat was his goal?
paars! u dont believe in tht jesus was lifted up by ALLAH to skies. so let metell u tht
when MOHOMMAD(pbuh) went to meraj than he met him at the first sky ( or i think tht was another sky), it has been mentioned in quran, U DONT BELIEVE???
His sect is Heratical. They are apostates.
The sentence for them in Islam is death.
It occurs to me that people of all religions spend vast amounts of time arguing about interpretations of verses in books, whilst having absolutely no direct knowledge of their own of the subjects which they so fiercely debate.
I have pleanty of direct knowledge. Speak for yourself.
Oh, so you have personally met Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna etc., hmm? I think not.
Your statement does not infer meeting Christ or Momo. So don't be intelllectually shallow just to irritate. Okay?
I have direct experience with Muslims and Christians. Including immersion in the "Islamic Cultures" for many years. Everyday I deal with Islam in my real life.
So?... What more direct experience should I require by your standards?
But you have not read Quran, it seems to be sure; and perhaps not even Bible from cover to cover.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
I can not agree more ........
And quite often it is not even their own interpretation.
Most interpretations are hand-me-downs.
To stand up for your own Interpretation is admirable even when misguided. But to be willing to put your life on the line for a strangers beliefs is not.
I am not saying I don't asdmire Al'...
I am saying! That he is espousing a heretical line of understanding and practice within Islam. Muslims themselves do not on a large scale accept the Islam he follows.
Ask him... I believe he has already stated if freely.
I respect that he is sticking up for his interpretation of Islam. But what the majority thinks is quite different. Especially those in charge.
That is just a fact.
I know he is taking his life into his hands practicing Islam as he is.... especially if he is in an Islamic country. And I respect and admire that. But mainstream Islam is not what he practices. And however noble the espousing of peaceful Islamic doctrine. It does not negate the fact that it is not mainstream.
You may as well call appellachian snake handling mainstream christianity.
just isn't so.
I hope that you do not think that my statement was direct at you cause it was not.
Sometimes I do not express my self as adequately as I thought that I did.
I intended my statement to be generaly speaking.
Jesus did not go to India...
He is currently working in a McDonalds in vegas with Michael Jackson and Elvis...
LM, A peacefull p1$$taker
And there are records of, "Isa", in India.
Of course the Arabic "Isa", is more closely related to the hebrew name Esau, than Yashua.
But thats Islam for ya.
So... subject is still open for debate. Was it or was it not Christ Yashua?
That is the question.
Islamic cannon does not recognize the same Christ as Christianity. They say they do. but it is not him.
An English man of some small stature found them in inia supposedly. He was there held up with a broken leg and tried to steal 'em.
Of course since he tried to steal them I don't think they let any outsiders in to see them.
They speak of a younger Isa coming to India and preaching and speaking and teaching the teachers.
Speaks of a falling out between He and the ruling caste. For the same reasons as the Gospel actually. He was preaching against a caste system, and the structure of, and those within the rulership.
I think that covers it all.... hrmmm...?
Yup, and I guess I can lay it to rest just like the Jesus in Egypt and Japan sightings.
Thanks for clarifying.
Hang on, Thomas the aposlte did go to India and established a church there before being martyred in AD72. Perhaps this is where this false idea of Jesus going to India comes from.
Just a thought.
Hi friend Disappearinghead
Those who believe in Paul, lost their contact with Jesus as he had moved away from Judea to Eastward, ultimately going to India with his mother Mary . Other trusted friends of Jesus also later secretly joined him there. Please google and you would find mention about Jesus in the Hindu and Buddhist scripture . It is a chapter of history in which the Christians are naturally not interested as first they have to bury their faith deep down the earth.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
The web is full of oddball conspiracy theory and wacky belief material. Jesus spent his enture adult life in Judea, Samaria, and Galilee as you well know. It is well established that Thomas went to India as a missionary. Now as an apostle, he would have been filled with the Spirit of the Lord, and no doubt performed many miracles in the Name of Jesus. So one might say that Thomas carried the presence of the Lord. I suggest your ideas will have been derieved, inflated, exagerated from these basic facts.
Hi friend Disappearinghead
Have a heart and get to research, obviously, it would take some time and effort from you but it is worth doing it. Jesus and Mary were free people, they were under no control of the so called Christians of Europe. Thomas and the Christians of Malabar, India and the Syriac Christians have their own history. Read Gospel of Thomas and other related material; you will get to know many new things to blast off your mythical Christianity cultured and bred in Europe.
Jesus was not concerned about Europe as they were Gentiles and he was not sent to them; he was sent to the sheep of the House of Israel who had twelve tribes; only two of them resided in Judea. Jews of Judea had rejected Jesus and after warning them of the consequences before the event of Crucifixion; Jesus concentrated his ministry to the other ten tribes of the Israel who were in exile and resided in India and the neighboring regions. Thomas went to Kerala, Malabar, India as some Jewish tribes lived there. Jesus went to Afghanistan, Pashtun (NWFP) Province of Pakistna, Tibet, and Kashmir.
History also tells us a tradition that Jesus along-with Thomas met a king at Taxila.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Again you need to study history. Jesus did not go to India. Sure He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel and upon His resurection He told His disciples to go and make disciples of all nations.
What I find rather bizare is that you think you are in a place to say the bible was invented by man when clearly the Quran is the unqualified ramblings of a single man.
While the bible is the insane ramblings of several men.
Hi friend (Q)
Quran is authored by the Creator- God Allah YHWH.
The Skeptics Atheists Agnostics are unfortunate people ; neither they have any book with them nor a system to speak of; they are perhaps living in the prehistoric age.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
No, it was authored by the Caliphs after Muhammad's death. If you're going to present the past as reference, present it without your own personal religious agenda attached.
The "Skeptics Atheists Agnostics" have read many holy books and have pondered that there cannot be a god as presented within those books, hence they don't accept them or use them as a system of morals and ethics.
The Quran teaches it's followers to lie and fight to promote or defend their system of belief. This is not moral or ethical by any standards. Who then is living in the prehistoric age?
My perception about Muslims changed only after I met an Ahmadiyya Muslim Guy and family and through him several others over 7 years ago. Before meeting them i did not have a good opinion about Muslims. That is where i heard that if you are a true Muslim then you would have respect for all religions and those who do not follow the Quran are not Muslims. So the 'so called Muslim' terrorists are obviously not Muslims.
That is very nice Ana... but it doesn't change the fact his sect is heretical. Not all muslims think as he does. Most follow mainstream Islam. And untill you effect change in the heart of mainstream Islam. Nothing will change.
I think he is a nice guy, also. Also I know many a Muslim and love them all. But I do not hide what I know from them, or agree with them just to be polite.
Hi friend Anamika S
I appreciate your comments.
Thanks and regards
My own, friend paas.
I am as heretical as you.
I was Christened Protestant at birth and roamed from there.
There are quite a few beliefs of mainstream Christianity that I do not hold to.
And when I speak with you about Islam I do not do it to down you or your beliefs. but I am well aware of what Islam is all about. And though I agree there are many peaceful Muslims. I also know the dictates of Islam and what Mainstream Islam is all about.
Islam need a serious movement within it to strive for peace. but the Qu'ran itself does not allow for it.
Hi friend TMMason
It is with every denomination that they call others heretical. Catholics consider Protestants as heretical and Protestant consider Catholic as heretical. JWs and Mormons consider both Catholics and Protestants as heretical.
Since, you yourself admit that you are heretical; so I leave you there for which you have admitted; without compulsion.
I am not heretical, for sure.
I am from among the mainstream; the stream of Islamic faith flows from the Quran; all tenets of my faith get water from Quran; so I am undoubtedly mainstream Muslim.
May be you revise your opinion; no compulsion.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Actually not Paas.
Christians accept most other sects fairly easilly.
But when it comes to such sects as appalachian snake handlers. Not many Christians will not accept them to be legitimate.
Also in Islam heresy is death. Christians do not kill each other over it. Not for a long time now.
And phylosophic meanderings do not make it so. Look up your founder as was posted on here the pother day. He is a heretic. I don't care. But that means your sect is not mainstream. And you know it as well as I do.
LOL You am funny dude. Christians have been killing each other forever:
And they are busy fighting in India:
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/ … tern_India
Oh.... You mean white American Christians who shoot abortion doctors?
Christians accept other sects?
You might want to read a few history books. Oh - you mean it doesn't matter if it happened a hundred years ago? LOLOL
Sorry Cuz. Just because you are being stamped out by the left doesn't mean you have stopped killing people. LOLOLOL Like wot Jesus sed.
Hi friend TMMason
I think you would have not forgotten; what was happening in Ireland to the Catholics at hands of the Protestants?
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
No man I don't deny The IRA were terrorists. Not at all. they are the ones who taught the PLO.
Oh yeah very much aware of them man. But that wasn't a war over one being the wrong religion as you are trying to use it.
Nope not the same man.
Hi friend TMMason
Do you thing Irish Catholics would agree that they are the Terrorist? I don't think they would agree with you. Do they?
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
In America it's live and let live. There is no death sentence for practicing what you believe. Nor should there be condemnation.
Unless, of course, you are planting bombs and wear burqas that conceal explosives. Then there will be condemnation. I find it incredible that people spend so much time arguing baseless points that go nowhere -- like a rat in an endless maze.
In the final analysis we will be judged by a higher power. And only then will we be told that we were right or wrong in our beliefs.
Hi friend foreignpress
I agree with your above sentence. In America, it is so.
But outside, Americas it is not.
They don't let the rest of the world to rest. I don't want to mention the current affairs; that would be Politics; and I am no politician; I am an ordinary peaceful man who firmly believes in "live and let live".
I will therefore mention of the past.
What was America doing in Vietnam?
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Plenty of criminals get executed here Paas. We just don't execute for apostasy or heresy. Nor adultery, or hooking, or being raped.
But we do execute people.
What were we doing in Vietnam? Nothing. Vietnam was an adventure. It was a lame effort to gain a foothold in the Far East. About that time China was making the transition from Mao Zedong to its present state. The French had lost interest after Dien Bien Phu and -- gee whiz -- why let a perfectly good region of the world go to waste?
Of course, many innocents died. Ho Chi Minh, a warrior of WWII, was painted as a madman. All I knew was that I was young, scared, and put more faith in my M14 than in God. Some people made a great deal of money during Vietnam, just as they have made money in all the other incursions involving Western powers versus the rest of the world.
Today I find the Vietnamese people very intelligent, polite, wonderful citizens, and the women are very beautiful.
earn! wat u r doing there with ur gf???
Yeah a Classic example of the envy and anxiety non Muslim have towards Islam
i understand that most of muslims dont consider ahamadis as muslims..but they are peaceful people ..jihad as known to the world was eradicate by ahamadis..and it focused more on logical discussions , introspection...
You keep spouting your words and expecting them to mean something of substance. Your words, regardless of who YOU think created them, which obvious from the way you present yourself you do not think for yourself, does not make it so.
You continue to talk foolishly, spouting off constant B.S. to promote your religion in a peaceful manner. But, what you FAIL to realize is that everything in your so-called "book", is suspect to begin with.
It is YOU who are obviously living in the dark ages. You cannot even evolve your own way of thinking, so you are really a lower level conscious human being, who cannot think for themselves and MUST BE guided by another source.
If you would simply admit your own failing, you might just be able to rise above your sad view and find some real peace.
Either way, make up your mind, would you. Are you going to continue to learn? Or have you resigned your life to 'god'?
If you resigned your life to 'god', then it becomes obvious that you will never think for yourself. But, it was nice to know you.
If you would like to continue to learn and make yourself a better person, then I would suggest you actually destroy that foolish "book" you continue to read over, and over, and over, and over, so you can be a more productive citizen of the planet.
Just a thought.
Hi friend agsil
I am a humble person; I learn from every person in the forum and in the real life as well. If one believes in the Creator- God Allah YHWH; then one's learning become better; one learns not only more about the temporal realm, the only one to which the Skeptics Atheists Agnostics are restricted in but also learns more about the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual realms for which no eyes have been developed to the Skeptics Atheists Agnostics; it is obvious they themselves failed to develop them.
If one who believes in the Creator- God Allah YHWH; then one is posed for learning more while one is resigned in God Allah YHWH.
I think it is not difficult to understand by you. Is it?
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
You're humble? Need a dictionary?
You've been preaching to all the sinners who don't follow a man that had dreams of granduer after a nervous breakdown, and decided he was the reincarnate messiah. And fools follow him. Even MAINSTREAM Islam calls Amahdi's a false religion and non muslim, yet you continue to parade around as if superior to us all, because only you know the so-called truth. You're showing you're as fake as your cult.
Yeah, the people who bother with 'god', obvious choose ignorance over that of understanding life.
watch this what ahmediya done 2 jesus
Christians Islam and Judism all claim to worship the same "One And Only" God.
I don't see a problem with this except that we just can not seem to extract the human eliment out of the belief system.
The Hebrews added it, Jesus said that this was wrong.
Then the Christians added it; and it is written in their religion that God came to Mohamid and he recieved the message and then Islam did it.
Too much input from humanity.
And then God gave up on religion ...
But he hasn't given up on the individuals
My thoughts anyway.
As a Muslim I never heard that what you said earlier in this discussion...It's interesting to hear that prophet jesus lived in India. and your leader Mr. Mirza Gulam from Qadiani in India, is a messiah or Imam Mahdi or Kalki Bahvan...obviously it's interesting story but couldn't find any single evidence to accept your statement.
Here are some information for you from Hadiths...( After read these all , please try your best to prove your statement and whether your believes are true or not!!!)
The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.
(Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207;
also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)
The Prophet(SAW) said:
Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression.
(Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)
Hadhrat Ali(RA) narrates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:
Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.
Ali b. Abi Talib(RA) has related a tradition from the Prophet(SAW) who informed him:
The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night.
(Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)
Hazrat Umme Salmah(RA), Prophet's wife, narrates that she heard the Prophet(SAW) say:
The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)
The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)
The Prophet(SAW) taught:
Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt).
(Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)
Abu Sa'id al-Khudari(RA) narrated that the Prophet(SAW) said:
Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)
Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri(RA) relates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:
Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years.
Hadhrat Umme Salmah(RA) narrates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:
After the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madina) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him.
Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground.
On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat.
The holy Prophet(SAW) said:
A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.
It is reported from Abu Hurayra(RA) that the Prophet(SAW) said:
What will be your reaction when the son of Mary (Jesus) descends and your Imam is from among yourselves?
(Sahih Muslim, bab nuzul 'isa, Vol. 2; Sahih Bukhari, kitab bad' al-khalq wa nuzul 'isa, Vol. 4)
The holy Prophet(SAW) said:
What would be your situation if the Son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends upon you and your Imam is from among you?
(Bukhari, kitabul-Anbiya, Chapter Nuzul Isa bin Maryam)
Hello Mr Paar
Here some information for you from Holy Quran about prophet Jesus...
The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:
"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).
The Quran says: Jesus had a miraculous birth
"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).
"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).
The Quran says: Jesus was not killed on the cross and nor resurrected
"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .
Please don't spread your own stories around... Keep it yourself if you are still believing with Ahmadiyya or Qadiyani or Mr. Mirza Gulam...
THINK...REALIZE AND SUPPORT
oh come on ahmadis are not Muslims they cannot even be called clone to Muslims because they are doing "shirk". Ahmadis are only shame to Islam we believe in Christianity we believe in Jew ism and above all in Islam but there is no such religion as Ahmadis.
Dont waste your time in making false statements. Islam does not need people like you.
Shirk is often translated into English as "monotheism" but it is actually much more than this, it means to associate anyone with Allah and in his attributes and in worship.
It means that those who are doing anything other than what Allah has told them to do is doing Shirk and shirk is the biggest sin every other sin automatically comes under it those who commit shirk will never be forgiven on the day of resurrection.
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Praise be to Allaah.
Qadianiyyah is a movement that started in 1900 CE as a plot by the British colonialists in the Indian subcontinent, with the aim of diverting Muslims away from their religion and from the obligation of jihaad in particular, so that they would not oppose colonialism in the name of Islam. The mouthpiece of this movement is the magazine Majallat Al-Adyaan (Magazine if Religions) which was published in English.
Foundation and prominent personalities:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (1839-1908 CE) was the main tool by means of which Qadianiyyah was founded. He was born in the village of Qadian, in the Punjab, in India, in 1839 CE. He came from a family that was well known for having betrayed its religion and country, so Ghulam Ahmad grew up loyal and obedient to the colonialists in every sense. Thus he was chosen for the role of a so-called prophet, so that the Muslims would gather around him and he would distract them from waging jihaad against the English colonialists. The British government did lots of favours for them, so they were loyal to the British. Ghulam Ahmad was known among his followers to be unstable, with a lot of health problems and dependent on drugs.
Among those who confronted him and his evil da’wah was Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ Thana’ al-Amritsari, the leader of Jama’iyyat Ahl al-Hadeeth fi ‘Umoom al-Hind (The All-India Society of Ahl al-Hadeeth). The Shaykh debated with him and refuted his arguments, revealing his ulterior motives and Kufr and the deviation of his way. When Ghulam Ahmad did not come to his senses, Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ challenged him to come together and invoke the curse of Allaah, such that the one who was lying would die in the lifetime of the one who was telling the truth. Only a few days passed before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani died, in 1908 CE, leaving behind more than fifty books, pamphlets and articles, among the most important of which are: Izaalat al-Awhaam (Dispelling illusions), I’jaaz Ahmadi (Ahmadi miracles), Baraaheen Ahmadiyyah (Ahmadi proofs), Anwaar al-Islam (Lights of Islam), I’jaaz al-Maseeh (Miracles of the Messiah), al-Tableegh (Conveying (the message))and Tajalliyyaat Ilaahiyyah (Divine manifestations).
Noor al-Deen (Nuruddin): the first Khaleefah of the Qadianis. The British put the crown of Khilaafah on his head, so the disciples (of Ghulam Ahmad) followed him. Among his books is: Fasl al-Khitaab (Definitive statement).
Muhammad Ali and Khojah Kamaal al-Deen: the two leaders of the Lahore Qadianis. They are the ones who gave the final shape to the movement. The former produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. His other works include: Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam) and al-Deen al-Islami (The Islamic religion). As for Khojah Kamaal al-Deen, he wrote a book called al-Mathal al-A’laa fi’l-Anbiya’ (The highest example of the Prophets), and other books. This Lahore group of Ahmadis are those who think of Ghulam Ahmad as a Mujaddid (renewer or reviver of Islam) only, but both groups are viewed as a single movement because odd ideas that are not seen in the one will surely be found in the other.
Muhammad Ali: the leader of the Lahore Qadianis. He was one of those who gave the final shape to Qadianiyyah, a colonialist spy and the person in charge of the magazine which was the voice of the Qadianiyyah. He also produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. Among his works are Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), and al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam), as stated above.
Muhammad Saadiq, the mufti of the Qadianiyyah. His works include: Khatim al-Nabiyyeen The seal of the Prophets).
Basheer Ahmad ibn Ghulam. His works include: Seerat al-Mahdi (the life of the Mahdi) and Kalimat al-Fasl (Decisive word).
Mahmood Ahmad ibn Ghulam, his second Khaleefah. Among his works are: Anwaar al-Khilaafah (Lights of the caliphate), Tuhfat al-Mulook and Haqeeqat al-Nubuwwah (The reality of prophethood).
The appointment of the Qadiani Zafar-Allaah Khan as the first Foreign Minister of Pakistan had a major effect in supporting this deviant sect, as he gave them a large area in the province of the Punjab to be their world headquarters, which they named Rabwah (high ground) as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We gave them refuge on high ground (rabwah), a place of rest, security and flowing streams.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:50].
Their thought and beliefs
Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as an Islamic daa’iyah (caller to Islam) so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be a mujaddid inspired by Allaah. Then he took a further step and claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
The Qadianis believe that Allaah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say.
The Qadiani believes that his god is English because he speaks to him in English.
The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets.
They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Qur’aan.
They say that there is no Qur’aan other than what the “Promised Messiah” (Ghulam Ahmad) brought, and no hadeeth except what is in accordance with his teachings, and no Prophet except under the leadership of Ghulam Ahmad.
They believe that their book was revealed. Its name is al-Kitaab al-Mubeen and it is different from the Holy Qur’aan.
They believe that they are followers of a new and independent religion and an independent Sharee’ah, and that the friends of Ghulam are like the Sahaabah.
They believe that Qadian is like Madeenah and Makkah, if not better than them, and that its land is sacred. It is their Qiblah and the place they make hajj to.
They called for the abolition of jihaad and blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority” as stated in the Qur’aan.
In their view every Muslim is a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiani is also a kaafir.
They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants.
Intellectual and ideological roots
The westernizing movement of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan paved the way for the emergence of the Qadianiyyah, because it had already spread deviant ideas.
The British made the most of this opportunity so they started the Qadiani movement and chose a man from a family that had a history of being agents of the colonialists.
In 1953 CE, there was a popular revolution in Pakistan which demanded the removal of Zafar-Allaah Khan from the position of Foreign Minister and that the Qadiani sect should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority. In this uprising around ten thousand Muslims were martyred, and they succeeded in having the Qadiani minister removed from office.
In Rabee’ al-Awwal 1394 AH (April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards.
The Majlis al-Ummah in Pakistan (the central parliament) debated with the Qadiani leader Mirza Naasir Ahmad, and he was refuted by Shaykh Mufti Mahmood (may Allaah have mercy on him). The debate went on for nearly thirty hours but Naasir Ahmad was unable to give answers and the Kufr of this group was exposed, so the Majlis issued a statement that the Qadianis should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority.
Among the factors that make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad an obvious Kaafir are the following:
His claim to be a Prophet
His abolition of the duty of jihaad, to serve the interests of the colonialists.
His saying that people should no longer go on Hajj to Makkah, and his substitution of Qadian as the place of pilgrimage.
His anthropomorphism or likening Allaah to human beings.
His belief in the transmigration of souls and incarnation.
His attributing a son to Allaah and his claim to be the son of God.
His denying that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his regarding the door of Prophethood to be open to “any Tom, Dick or Harry”.
The Qadianis have strong ties with Israel. Israel has opened centres and schools for them, and helped them to publish a magazine which is their mouthpiece, to print books and publications for distribution worldwide.
The fact that they are influenced by Judaism, Christianity and al-Baatiniyyah is clear from their beliefs and practices, even though they claim to be Muslims.
Their spread and positions of influence
Most of the Qadianis nowadays live in India and Pakistan, with a few in Israel and the Arab world. They are trying, with the help of the colonialists, to obtain sensitive positions in all the places where they live.
The Qadianis are very active in Africa and in some western countries. In Africa they have more than 5,000 teachers and dai’yahs working full-time to call people to Qadianiyyah. Their wide-spread activity proves that they have the support of the colonialists.
The British government is also supporting this movement and making it easy for their followers to get positions in world governments, corporate administration and consulates. Some of them are also high-ranking officers in the secret services.
In calling people to their beliefs, the Qadianis use all kinds of methods, especially educational means, because they are highly-educated and there are many scientists, engineers and doctors in their ranks. In Britain there is a satellite TV channel called Islamic TV which is run by the Qadianis.
From the above, it is clear that:
Qadianiyyah is a misguided group, which is not part of Islam at all. Its beliefs are completely contradictory to Islam, so Muslims should beware of their activities, since the ‘Ulama’ (scholars) of Islam have stated that they are Kaafirs.
For more information see: Al-Qadianiyyah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer.
(Translator’s note: this book is available in English under the title “Qadiyaniat: an analytical survey” by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer)
Reference: Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan al-Madhaahib wa’l-Ahzaab al-Mu’aasirah by Dr. Maani’ Hammad al-Juhani, 1/419-423
The following statement was published by the Islamic Fiqh Council (Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami):
After discussing the question put to the Islamic Fiqh Council in Capetown, South Africa, concerning the ruling on the Qadianis and their off-shoot which is known as Lahoriyyah, and whether they should be counted as Muslims or not, and whether a non-Muslim is qualified to examine an issue of this nature:
In the light of research and documents presented to the members of the council concerning Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani, who emerged in India in the last century and to whom is attributed the Qadiani and Lahori movements, and after pondering the information presented on these two groups, and after confirming that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be a prophet who received revelation, a claim which is documented in his own writings and speeches, some of which he claimed to have received as revelation, a claim which he propagated all his life and asked people to believe in, just as it is also well-known that he denied many other things which are proven to be essential elements of the religion of Islam
in the light of the above, the Council issued the following statement:
Firstly: the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet or a messenger and to receive revelation are clearly a rejection of proven and essential elements of Islam, which unequivocally states that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and that no revelation will come to anyone after him. This claim made by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad makes him and anyone who agrees with him an apostate who is beyond the pale of Islam. As for the Lahoriyyah, they are like the Qadianiyyah: the same ruling of apostasy applies to them despite the fact that they described Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a shadow and manifestation of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
Secondly: it is not appropriate for a non-Muslim court or judge to give a ruling on who is a Muslim and who is an apostate, especially when this goes against the consensus of the scholars and organizations of the Muslim Ummah. Rulings of this nature are not acceptable unless they are issued by a Muslim scholar who knows all the requirements for being considered a Muslim, who knows when a person may be deemed to have overstepped the mark and become an apostate, who understands the realities of Islam and kufr, and who has comprehensive knowledge of what is stated in the Qur’aan, Sunnah and scholarly consensus. The ruling of a court of that nature is invalid. And Allaah knows best.
Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami, p. 13
Wednesday at 5:59pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Hazrat Pir Meher Ali Shah’s struggle against Qadianism
From the Light of Golra Sharif website. [see link in sidebar]
"The background to Hazrat’s entry into the struggle against Qadianism is that during his visit to the Hijaz for Hajj in 1890 AD (1307 A.H.), the chaste atmosphere of the Holy Land had touched him so deeply that he had thought of permanently settling down there. However, Haji Imdad-ullah Muhajir of Makkah had advised him to return home in the following words:
“In the near future, a dangerous and evil movement is likely to raise its head in India, and you are destined to play a key role in combating it. Even if you do nothing actively against this movement, your mere presence in the country would help shield the country’s ulama against its pernicious effects”. The truth of these words was proved barely a year later, i.e., in 1891, when Mirza of Qadian announced his (initial) claim to be the Promised Messiah (Jesus Christ) - an announcement that was to culminate about ten years later in his claim to be a full-fledged prophet of God in his own right.
Two spiritual visions experienced by Hazrat around this time also deserve a mention in this context. According to one of these, quoted in Malfuzat-e-Mihriya, the Holy Prophet had appeared to Hazrat Pir in a dream and had commanded him to effectively refute Mirza of Qadian, who was “tearing to pieces his (i.e., the Prophet’s) ahadith through distortion and misinterpretation”.
According to the other vision, which is described in a manuscript in Hazrat’s own handwriting discovered later in his personal papers, and which occurred when Mirza challenged Hazrat to an open debate in 1900A.D, Hazrat had seen himself seated in a most respectful posture before the Holy Prophet [peace be upon him] in his prayer cell, in the manner of a disciple sitting before his Shaikh (spiritual guide), while Mirza of Qadian was sitting a good distance away with his back turned to the Holy Prophet.
Hazrat construed this as a clear indication of Mirza’s defiance of the Prophet’s teachings, and this prompted him to accept Mirza’s challenge for a debate in Lahore. In Hazrat’s celebrated book Saif-e-Chishtiyai (The Chishtia Sword), which Hazrat wrote later in refutation of Qadianism, he has also described a dream which he had seen in his youth, and according to which he had successfully repulsed a sword attack by the one-eyed Dajjal (Antichrist) in three consecutive thrusts. This dream, too, he interpreted as symbolically forecasting his victorious fight against the heretical Qadyani creed later in his life.
Wednesday at 10:33pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Qadyani request to Hazrat for support and Hazrat’s response
Hazrat’s first direct contact with the Qadyani movement occurred when Maulvi Abdul Karim of Sialkot, one of Mirza’s followers, sent to Hazrat a copy of Mirza’s published letter of invitation in which he had claimed to be the Promised Messiah and had been assigned by God with the task of reviving the din and working for the ascendancy of Islam. The letter requested Hazrat’s support in this task. In reply, Hazrat wrote that he did not accept Mirza as the “Promised Messiah”, and advised him to continue to confine his activities to the holding of debates with non-Muslims and the propagation of Islam as before, instead of making such odd claims.
Mirza’s challenge to the Mashaikh (spiritual leaders)
Recognizing the powerful influence which the mashaikh wielded on the minds of the Muslims of India in general, Mirza made every possible effort to enlist the backing of some of them for furthering his mission. However, these efforts met with no success whatsoever. In frustration, therefore, he threw out an open challenge to the entire Mashaikh community in the following words in his Ayyam-us-Sulh:
“There is no one under the sun at present who could claim to be my equal. I say to the Muslims openly and without fear: Let all those who lay loud claims to be muhaddith (master of Hadith) and mufassir (commentators of the Quran), who profess to know God, and call themselves Chishti, Naqshbandi, Suharwardi and what not, come before me (if they dare)”.
Wednesday at 10:34pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Hazrat’s book "Shams-ul-Hidayah"
Hazrat Pir Meher Ali Shah Sahib wrote a book titled “ Shams-ul-Hidayah Fi Isbat-e-Hayatul Masih” in 1899. In this book written in the form of questions and answers on the various relevant issued, Hazrat confirmed as unanimous the Muslim belief concerning the raising alive of Jesus Christ to Heaven, in both body and spirit, and his expected future descent in physical person to earth some time before the Day of Judgment. He did so with powerful arguments based on Quran and authentic ahadith. He showed the Qadyani beliefs regarding the “ death “ of Christ on the Cross, and coming of the Masil as the promised messiah (in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad), to be utterly false. In reply to Mirza’s challenge to the country’s mashaikh reproduced above, Hazrat invited him to first explain him the real meanings of the Kalma (Translation: There is No God but Allah, and Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) is Allah’s Messenger) before his challenge would be accepted.
Commotion in Qadian
The strength of Hazrat’s arguments in Shamsul Hidayah, written in scholarly style and language, can be fully appreciated only by the truly learned reader. The book was, therefore acclaimed by ulama of all schools of thought. Among other, Maulvi Abdul Jabbar Ghaznavi, a leading scholar of the Ahl-e-Hadith school, expressed his appreciation in a personal letter addressed to Hazrat. Understandably, the book caused a stir in Qadian, where the preparation of replies to the various points raised in it was taken immediately in hand. In the reply of the above mentioned book, Hazrat Pir Meher Ali Shah Sahib was then asked a dozen counter-questions by Hakim Nurrudin, Mirza’s closest and most trusted associate of his own which were totally unrelated to the main point at issue, viz., the “death” and “life” of Jesus Christ, such as Wahdat-ul-Wajood, Awlia (saints), ilham, Kashf, correctness of ahadith etc.
All the questions were answered in detail with the related Hadith and Quranic verses. At the end of his reply, Hazrat posed just one counter question to Hakim Nurrudin, asking him to explain “the reality of miracles”. This question was, however, never answered.
The aforesaid correspondence was published in the form of a leaflet by Maulana Muhammad Ghazi, senior teacher in the madressah at Golra Sharif, and distributed to ulama in different parts of the country. All ulama paid glowing tributes (both written and oral) to the force of Hazrat’s arguments and the deep learning which they exhibited. The publication of the leaflet led to a widespread demand for Mirza to reply to the questions listed in Hazrat’s Shamsul Hidayah.
Mirza’s challenge to Hazrat for a written debating contest
Nettled by the aforesaid demand, Mirza threw a challenge to Hazrat, in a poster issued on 20 July 1900 and witnessed by twenty persons, to engage in an open debate with him. Curiously, however, the challenge was not for a debate on the specific disputed issue (viz., the “death” of Christ, or on Mirza’s own claims to be the masil of Christ, the Promised Messiah and a zilli nabi, i.e., shadow prophet), but for a contest in the writing of an Arabic language commentary on selected Quranic verses.
Wednesday at 10:35pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) According to the poster, the proposed contest was to take place at Lahore, the capital city of Punjab Province (and at no other place), at a venue to be selected and arranged by Hazrat, or failing this by Mirza himself. A maximum of 40 Quranic verses were to be selected by ballot, all of them from one particular Surah of the Quran, and commentaries thereon were to be completed within a period of seven hours on the same day and in the presence of witnesses, without the help of any book or other assistance. A maximum of one hour would be given to each party to prepare himself for writing the commentary. The commentaries, each of which was to span at least 20 leaves (40 pages) of normal-sized paper and writing, would, after their completion and signatures by the respective contestants, be read out to three learned persons for adjudication. These persons would be nominated, and arrangement for their presence made, by Hazrat Meher Ali Shah. Mirza indicated that the names of Maulvi Muhammad Hussain of Batala, Maulvi Abdul Jabbar Ghaznavi, and Prof. Maulvi Abdullah of Lahore, or some other three neutral Maulvis would be acceptable to him for this purpose. After listening to the two commentaries, the judges would pronounce on solemn triple oath as to which one was considered by them to be superior and written “with Divine endorsement”. In the event of Hazrat’s commentary being adjudged better or even equal in merit to that of Mirza, the latter pledged to admit that the truth was on the side of Pir Meher Ali Shah. He would then burn all books containing his claims to messiah-ship and prophet-hood, and acknowledge himself to be “the damned and the disgraced one”. On the other hand, if Mirza were to be adjudged the victor, or if Pir Meher Ali Shah were to refuse to enter the contest, he would repent and pledge allegiance to Mirza and announce this through a published poster.
Hazrat was asked in the poster to convey acceptance of the challenge, along with an assurance that he would pledge allegiance to Mirza in the event of his defeat in the contest, within ten days, through a printed poster witnessed (like the poster of Mirza) by twenty respectable persons. Five thousand (5,000) copies of this poster were to be prepared and distributed by Hazrat to the interested quarters.
Mirza’s poster was accompanied by a supplement, which inter alia emphasized categorically that the commentaries to be written by the contestants would be wholly in Arabic language and would not include any portion in Urdu. It further spelt out some of the conditions mentioned in the main poster, set out arrangements for the contest in greater detail, and also made a few additional proposals. One such proposal was that the participation of Hazrat Pir Sahib in the contest would be essential in any event since he had the reputation of being superior to all other maulvis (Muslim clergy) in the knowledge of Arabic and the Quran. At the same time, however, he felt it was necessary to widen the purview of the contest and to include in it as many other Ulema as possible, on the express condition that these Ulema would sit at some distance from each other and from the two main contestants so that they could not provide any written or oral assistance to one another or to see what others were writing. This would help avoid the possibility of some Ulema regarding themselves as superior to the Pir Sahib in the knowledge of Arabic and the Quran, and on that basis refusing to accept the defeat of Pir Sahib as binding on them. It would also ensure that the “Sign of God” was manifested with the maximum strength and glory. Mirza suggested, therefore, that the Pir Sahib should furnish a list of at least forty Ulema (besides himself) who would also take part in the contest. Furthermore, he asked Hazrat to suggest a date for the contest not earlier than one month hence, in order to allow enough time to the other participating Ulema to make the necessary preparations and arrangement to be present in Lahore on the date of the contest. A notice of one week was to be given by Hazrat to Mirza, through a registered letter, after fixing the date of the contest. At the end of the supplement, Mirza gave his own list of 86 eminent ulama and mashaikh from all over the country, from among whom the forty ulama other than the Pir Sahib should preferably be selected, and invited them all to be present at the contest.
Wednesday at 10:36pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Hazrat’s reply accepting the challenge
Mirza’s poster and its supplement were received in Golra Sharif on 25 July 1900. Hazrat immediately prepared a poster in reply and had it printed and published the very next day in all leading newspapers of the country. As desired by Mirza, 5,000 copies of this poster were prepared and some copies were sent to Mirza at Qadian by registered post. Copies were also mailed or sent by hand to ulama in all parts of India, including the 86 ulama listed at the end of the supplement to Mirza’s poster, and also to ulama in adjoining Afghanistan. All this generated widespread interest among the people.
In his reply, Hazrat wrote that he whole-heartedly accepted the invitation for a public contest extended by Mirza as well as the conditions listed by him, including the venue proposed for the contest (viz., Lahore). He also accepted the three ulama named by him as prospective judges. He suggested, however, as an additional condition from his side, that the two contestants should first engage in an oral debate elaborating their respective points of view. In this debate, Mirza Sahib should first try to convince the audience, through oral arguments, about the validity of his professed claims to be the Promised Massiah, the Mahdi, and a prophet of Allah. Hazrat, in his turn, should try to effectively refute those claims. The judges should then give their verdict in the light of these presentations, and the written contest in commentary proposed by Mirza should take place only after the judges and the audience had expressed their judgment about the oral debate. Furthermore, as far as written presentation was concerned, the many books written by Mirza were filled with his various claims and views, and these had already been read and commented upon in detail by various Ulema and also by other fair-minded intellectuals from time to time. Because of all this Hazrat concluded, it seemed but appropriate to give first priority to an oral debate and a secondary one to a written contest.
As desired by Mirza, the 25th of August 1900,i.e exactly one month after the date of Hazrat’s answering poster, was proposed by Hazrat as the date for the contest, and Mirza was asked to reach Lahore on that date. Also as desired by Mirza, Hazrat’s poster was witnessed by twenty respectable persons, mostly ulama.
A reply to the supplement to Mirza’s poster was written, on Hazrat’s behalf and with his approval, by Maulana Muhammad Ghazi, head teacher of the madressah at Golra Sharif, and was appended to the main poster. It reaffirmed Hazrat’s readiness, as expressed in the main poster, to undertake the contest proposed by Mirza on the latter’s own conditions, with the additional condition to have an oral contest before the written one. It also added a few auxiliary observations. For example, it reproduced a selected sampling of the many absurd interpretations that had been placed on verses of the Quran by Mirza Sahib, to suit his own ends and to establish his claims to prophet-hood etc.
Wednesday at 10:37pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Qadiani’s objection to Hazrat’s proposal
Mirza had been asked from Hazrat’s side to give timely intimation about any changes that he desired to be made in the conditions of the proposed contest. However, no such intimation was received until just four days before the scheduled date of the contest (i.e.25 August 1900), when a copy of the printed letter was delivered in Golra Sharif. This letter had been written, not by Mirza Sahib himself but by Syed Muhammad Ahsan Amrohi, one of his close associates. The letter rejected, on Mirza’s behalf, the proposal made by Hazrat for an oral debate and insisted on a written contest in commentary writing only. In reply, Mirza was promptly informed through a poster issued on Hazrat’s behalf on 21-22 August 1900 by Hakim Sultan Mahmood of Rawalpindi (one of Hazrat’s devotees), that although Hazrat still considered an oral debate to be the best method of deciding the issue, he was ready for only a written contest also on Mirza’s own conditions and was therefore leaving for Lahore to participate in such a contest. A copy of the poster was sent by registered post to Mirza at Qadian. All other interested quarters, which could be contacted within the very short time then left until the date of the contest, were also notified accordingly, although the poster could not be published as widely as would have been desirable.
In their various subsequent writings and statements, Mirza Sahib and other Qadyani writers have contended that in the poster published by Hakim Sultan Mehmood, the condition for oral debate, which was unacceptable to Mirza, had been allowed to stand and had not been withdrawn by Hazrat. Because of this, they say, Mirza Sahib could not have participated in the contest under any circumstances.
Huge Muslim assemblage at Lahore, venue of the contest
As the appointed date approached, hundreds of Muslims belonging to all schools of religious thought (Shi’ah, Sunni, Ahl-e-Hadith, etc.) and all walks of life started arriving in Lahore from various parts of the country. Major Islamic Madressahs and centers of learning (e.g., those in Delhi, Saharanpur, Deoband, Ludhiana, Amritsar, Multan etc.) sent their representatives and even some public servants from far-flung areas took leave of absence and came to Lahore to witness the historic contest. From the other side, members of the Qadyani community also came in sizeable numbers. In a period when people as a rule took keen interest in religious matters, the participation of Hazrat Pir Meher Ali Shah a renowned scholar and an eminent spiritual personality , along with the large group of distinguished ulama, in the historic debate which was to decide the fate of the leading imposter of the 19th / 20th century, generated unprecedented enthusiasm.
Nomination of Hazrat as leader of the Muslim Ulema
In this moment of destiny, ulama of various shades of thought sank their traditional differences, and unanimously declared Hazrat to be their sole spokesman and leader. They thus displayed once again that all-pervading Islamic spirit of brotherhood which has helped unify the Muslim Ummah at every critical turn of history against its common enemies, and of which no parallel can be found in any other religion or creed.
The fact that the group of ulama which elected Hazrat as their undisputed leader on this occasion included many who were far senior to Hazrat - then only 42 years of age and barely in the tenth year of his mission of teaching and spiritual guidance-underscores the high esteem in which he had come to be held in the religious circles even at that early stage.
Hazrat’s arrival in Lahore
On leaving Golra Sharif for Lahore by train on 24th August 1900, Hazrat had two telegrams sent to Mirza at Qadian, first from Rawalpindi and then from Lala-Musa railway station situated on the rail route to Lahore. This was meant to ensure that he was duly informed about Hazrat’s expected arrival in Lahore. About 50 eminent ulama accompanied Hazrat from Golra railway station, and many more from other areas either joined him at various points en route or reached Lahore directly to join the group of welcomers. A very large gathering of people received Hazrat on his arrival to Lahore, at the railway station. They proposed to take Hazrat in a procession to the venue of the contest, but Hazrat vetoed the suggestion. Hazrat was indeed so convinced about that when Mirza finally refused to come to Lahore for the contest, Hazrat even thought of going personally to Qadian, along with a selected band of ulama, to meet Mirza in his own stronghold. He was, however, dissuaded from doing so by a majority of the Muslims, on the ground that such a course was inadvisable for various reasons.
Mirza’s failure to reach Lahore
Hazrat and his associates, as well as all others who had assembled in Lahore in large numbers to witness this epoch-making contest, waited for two full days, i.e. 25 and 26 August 1900, for Mirza to arrive. Meanwhile, the Qadianis kept giving assurances that Mirza Sahib’s arrival was being delayed only due to negotiations about the applicable terms and conditions, and that he would come as soon as these were finalized. However, Mirza failed to turn up. Many influential Ahmadis of the Lahori faction reportedly tried hard to induce Mirza to come to Lahore, but did not succeed. His main objection was that withdrawal of the condition of oral debate should have been announced by Hazrat personally instead of through his associate Hakim Sultan Mehmood. It was pointed out to him that withdrawal had been done so because Mirza’s own rejection of Hazrat’s suggestion for oral debate had been conveyed through the same procedure, i.e., through the associate Muhammad Ahsan Amrohi a proxy and not by Mirza personally. Nevertheless, Hazrat even then showed his readiness to withdraw his condition under his own signature provided Mirza did the same in respect of his rejection of that condition. Mirza, however, not only declined to do so but also refused point-blank to come to Lahore. According to him, the maulvis had conspired to have him assassinated under cover of engaging him in a debate to disprove his claim to prophet-hood. (In making this allegation, he conveniently ignored the fact that the contest had been arranged at his own initiative and not at the insistence of the maulvis! )
Reaction among Mirza’s followers
When the Qadyani representatives eventually failed to persuade their leader to come to Lahore for the debate, a wave of dismay swept through the community. Many disillusioned Qadianis deserted the party, while some others went into despaired seclusion. Many more (e.g., Babu Ilahi Bukhsh, who had previously been a long-time and zealous Qadyani activist but had later repented and rejoined the ranks of orthodox Muslims) even published posters and pamphlets lauding Hazrat’s learning and erudition and acclaiming his victory in the contest. The diehards, however, not only refused to accept defeat but in fact declared the episode to be a resounding victory for their side. Posters were splashed all over Lahore announcing “the flight of the Pir Sahib of Golra” against the latter-day Imam (i.e., Mirza), “the crushing defeat of the maulvis and the Pir by the heavenly sign”, and “the inspired tidings of the Promised Massiah being proved correct”. All this despite the fact that the entire city was witness to the prolonged presence of Hazrat Meher Ali Shah Sahib in Lahore, and to the fact that Mirza of Qadian was refusing to come there notwithstanding repeated calls to do so.
As a diversionary tactic, a delegation of the Qadyani community met Hazrat following the cancellation of the debating contest due to Mirza’s crying off, and suggested a Mubahilah (i.e., a contest of supplication to Allah between Hazrat and Mirza). According to this proposal, either of the person whose prayer was answered positively would be acknowledged as the victor. Hazrat readily accepted even this suggestion, but the Qadyani side did not pursue it further.
Qadyani preachers and orators offered a variety of far-fetched rationalization to justify the course of action adopted by Mirza. Far from producing any favourable impact, however, such rationalization merely helped to make a laughing stock of these Qadyani preachers as well as their beleaguered leaders. The upshot of all this was that neither Mirza Sahib nor his party ventured to openly face the forces of truth ever again and relied instead on clandestine and underhand tactics to promote their cause.
In still another poster, which was dated 25 August 1900 and was later published in the collection of his posters titled “Tabligh-e-Risalat" , Mirza indicated, with reference to Hazrat’s proposal for an oral debate, that in order to break the Pir Sahib’s false notions about his own prowess in this sphere, he had first thought of sending his friend and eminent scholar Syed Muhammad Ahsan Amrohi for such a debate. However, the latter had declined to do so because he had come to know through revelation that the Pir Sahib’s camp included people who had a habit of indulging in obscene abuses. While his earlier claims had been that he had the endorsement of Archangel Gabriel for his cause, and that “Allah would protect him from (the evil designs) the people”, he was now afraid of the Pathans of N.W.F.P. In the circumstances, Mirza said he had now himself compiled a booklet on the subject as a “gift” for Pir Meher Ali Shah, titled Tohfa-e-Golraviyah (The Golravi Gift). If and when the Pir Sahib replied to the contents of the booklet, the people would automatically come to know about their respective arguments and their answers.
Wednesday at 10:38pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Mirza’s new proposal
Accordingly, he sought to revive the issue once again on 15 December 1900 (4 months after the previous abortive contest) by publishing yet another poster. He said in order to settle the matter once and for all; he had been inspired by God with the fresh proposal. Under this proposal, he would, sitting in Qadian, write a commentary in chaste Arabic on the opening Surah of the Holy Quran, Al-Fateha. In this commentary, he would prove his various claims in the light of Surah alone, besides describing other truths and facts stated in Surah. Similarly Hazrat, sitting in Golra Sharif, would do the same. The two commentaries should be printed and published in book form within 70 days after 15th December 1900, so that everyone can compare them and form his judgment about their respective merits. A price of Rs.500 would be paid to Hazrat if his commentary was adjudged by three scholars to be superior to that of Mirza. The party failing to write and publish the proposed commentary within the stated period would be regarded as a liar, and no further proof for that purpose would be needed.
Hazrat’s reaction to this proposal
This new challenge had not the slightest impression on Hazrat Pir Meher Ali Shah Sahib (R.A). Devoted as every moment of his life was to the remembrance of Allah, spiritual contemplations, and providing guidance to knowledge thirsty humanity, fruitless activities like this had no place in a sober scheme of things. Under compulsion of circumstances, and on the insistence of other ulama, he had already spent what he thought to be more than enough attention to this matter, even disregarding the oppositions to this voiced by some Mashaikh (including Hazrat Khwaja Allah Bukhsh Sahib of Taunsa Sharif). He thus had no more time to waste on such futile exercises. While, therefore, Mirza did prepare and publish his planned commentary on Al-Fateha, under the title Ijaz-ul-Masih, (Miracle of the Massiah) within 70 days as stipulated by himself, no such thing was done by Hazrat.
As expected, Mirza’s book was found, not only by scholars but even by students, to be full of glaring errors of Arabic language, grammar and diction, and replete with plagiarized ideas and content. In one place, for example the month of Ramadan had been said to consist of 70 days; at another, yowm-ud-din (Day of Judgment) was termed as the period of the Promised Massiah (Mirza himself). Because of this, the book failed to cut any ice with the concerned circles.
Hazrat's book "Saif-e-Chishtiyai"
In reply to Mirza’s two books, Ijaz-ul-Masih and Shams-e-Bazighah, Hazrat wrote his now-renowned book Saif-e-Chishtiyai (The Chishtia Sword), and had it distributed free of cost to the sub-continent’s ulama and mashaikh as well as among religious schools and other institutions.
Saif-e-Chishtiyai further elaborated the arguments contained in Hazrat’s earlier book Shams-ul-Hidayah. In addition, it made nearly one hundred critical comments on the incorrect meaning and logic, errors of grammar, diction and idiom, plagiarisms and distortions in respect of Surah Al-Fateha (the opening Surah of the Holy Quran) as contained in Mirza’s Ijaz-ul-Masih. Similar criticism were made of the contents of Shams-e-Bazighah, in which an effort had been made by Mirza to spell out the meaning of the Kalimah (There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is Allah’s Messenger) as demanded by Hazrat in Shams-ul-Hidayah and objections had also been raised to the various points made in that book (Ijaz-ul-Masih, written by Mirza Qadyani).
In Saif-e-Chishtiyai, Hazrat had inter alia predicted that since Mirza was an impostor, he would never have the privilege of visiting Madina Munawwara and paying his respects at the tomb of the Holy Prophet [peace be upon him] which according to a hadith was one of the things which Jesus Christ (the real Promised Massiah) was destined to do, along with the performance of Hajj, after his future descent to earth. This prediction was proved correct when Mirza died a few years later neither performing Hajj nor visiting Madina.
Mirza passes away
The publication of Saif-e-Chishtiyai took the sails decisively out of the Qadyani movement. It helped thousands of wavering Muslims regain firm faith in the real truth. Even many Qadianis repented and discarded Qadianism after reading the book. However, Mirza and many of his diehard followers still failed to learn any lesson. In 1907, as part of his continuing vendetta against Hazrat Pir Meher Ali Shah Sahib, Mirza made yet another of his long chain of unfulfilled predictions-one that proved to be the last that he was destined to make ever again. He predicted that Hazrat would pass away during the coming month of Jaith of the Bikrami calendar. Instead, however, he himself breathed his last during the same month of the following year!
A summing up
Hazrat Syedna Pir Meher Ali Shah Sahib was no doubt in the forefront of all those ulama and Mashaikh who waged a heroic struggle to nip the evil of Qadianism in the bud. He occupied a leading position among those who laid down the foundation of what developed in course of time into a nation-wide “ Khatm-e-Nabuwwat” (Finality of Prophet-hood), and that resulted three quarters of the century later in the Qadyani community being unanimously declared to be outside the pale of Islam by the elected legislature of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on 7th September 1974. To those pioneering crusades must, therefore, go the ultimate credit for showing the real face of the Qadyani creed to the world.
Following the verdict of Pakistan’s Parliament, the Ahmadiyat community’s missions are now reported to be working under covers mainly in some European, African and other countries in the name of Islam. They present themselves and Mirza Sahib as an orthodox Muslim by placing before their audience only the writings belonging to the early period of Mirza Sahib's life when his beliefs were still those of an orthodox Muslim. They expunge the portion of Mirza’s writings that contain his claims to prophet-hood and other related claims and deny that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad ever made a claim to prophet-hood or any other claims contrary to Islam.
It is hoped that the facts about the Qadyani movement presented, in the context of Hazrat Syedna Pir Meher Ali Shah's struggle against it and on the basis of authentic original sources, would help to see the Qadyani (Ahmadi) movement in its true colours, and to understand that enrollment in the Qadyani (Ahmadiya) community would not amount to embracing Islam but to adopting a creed that is totally antithetical to that great faith. "
Wednesday at 10:40pm · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.)
QADIAN AND ISREAL
Pakistan became the member of the UN about one month before the question of Palestine came before the UN General Assembly. Zafarullah led the Pakistan delegation to the UN. We discuss here the role of Qadian and Sir Zafarullah in the last phase of "Jewish National Struggle." It was during the Second World War that Zafarullah had actively taken interest in Zionist movement. He visited Palestine, met Dr. Cohen, the head of Jewish Agency and afterwards declared that Arabs had to retreat under the impact of Jewish immigration.1
The Palestine issue took a sharp turn in favour of Jews when the new Imperialist power, the United States, provided it massive support at international level. President Roosevelt of America was not only sympathetic to Zionist ‘aspiration’ but also took special interest in the affairs of the Middle East during the Second World War and was aware of the importance of America’s growing oil interests in the area. In London, the Zionist leaders urged the cancellation of the British White Paper on Palestine of 1939 and immediate admission of 100,000 Jews to Palestine. Their hopes were raised when the Labour Government took office. Earnest Bevin, who as Foreign Secretary was responsible for Britain’s Palestine policy, was not in Favour of immediate declaration of Palestine as Jewish State.
It was at this point in August 1945 that the US President Truman endorsed the Zionist demand that hundred thousand Jews should be allowed immediately into Palestine. At the same time the US Congress called for unrestricted Jewish immigration to the limit of the country’s absorptive capacity. An Anglo-American Committee was set up in Nov. 1945 to examine the issue of Jewish immigration. It comprised of six American and six British members. Before the Committee started its work in Palestine, Mirza Mahmud sent Sheikh Noor Ahmad Munir to Palestine in October 1945 to assist in the work 2 of Ch. Sharif, who was a henchman of British High Commissioner, Harold MacMichael.
Ahmadis were no party to the dispute but Qadiani Missionary Ch.Sharif submitted a memorandum to the Anglo-American Committee perhaps to explain Ahmadiyya point of view on the Palestine problem. Two members of the Committee viz. Richard Crossman, Labour MP and William Philip, a former US Ambassador in Italy, were familiar with the Ahmadis and had sympathies for them. Ch.Sharif, in his report to Qadian, states that he met the Presidents of Committee and gave them a copy of Mirza Mahmud’s address, which he delivered on 12 January 1945. It stressed the need for conciliation between Britain and India. 3 To further explain the Qadiani point of view, a pamphlet containing the dreams of Mirza Mahmud concerning the victory of the Allies and defeat of Axis powers in the World War was hander over to the members. In order to give the history and pro-British stance of Ahmadiyya Community to the visiting delegation, the Qadiani missionary provided them copies of Mirza Mahmud’s well-known book, A Present to Prince of Wales (1921). It was also distributed freely in Arab countries. It carried Ahmadiyya political beliefs and their policy of unflinching loyalty to the British Raj, whether it existed in India or in Palestine.
In April 1946, the Anglo-American Committee gave its report. It recommended the continuation of the mandate and the immediate admission of one lac Jews to Palestine. The Zionist terrorist organization had already intensified their activities and had virtually taken over administration of Palestine. In July 1946, they blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem and the British Government and Military offices, which it housed.
AlFazl, in its leader, gave an ‘honest’ advice to Britain stating that the admission of Jews in Palestine by force would prove to be a spark. Some people would come up to turn it into flames and these flames would engulf the world. If America had no regard for the susceptibilities of Muslims, Britain must take care of them because most of its interests were linked with them.4
Qadianis continued their proselytizing activities in those critical days. They traveled over all parts of Palestine in the name of observing the ‘Tabligh Days.’ In a report to Qadian, Ch.Sharif writes:
"Owing to hartal (Strike) Tabligh Day was observed on 27 April our Ahmadi brethren formed small groups and went to the cities of Haifa, Nasara, Acca, Tabria, Baisan, Shafa Omer, Sadaf, Jafa, Bait-ul-Laham, Bait-ul-Maqdas, Tel Aviv and Tarsha to give the message of Ahmadiyyat. They distributed about five thousand pamphlets, handbills and booklets among the people. This time, by the grace of God, no untoward incident took place.. In the end of December, I (Ch.Sharif) and Sh. Noor Ahmad went to Jerusalem. I stayed there for 4 to 5 days and got Sheikh Sahib introduced with certain friends. I came back to perform certain important works. Sheikh Noor Ahmad stayed there for a week and introduced the important persons of Jerusalem and Khalil with Ahmadiyya message. That included Mohammad Ali Alajri, President Khalil Municipality, Sheikh Abdullah Tahoob, Mufti of Khalil and all the religious scholars of Masjid-I-Aqsa and Jerusalem. Mr. C.N.Sainek, a Professor of Jewish University, who claimed to have discovered an inscription regarding crucifixion of Jesus, was given Ahmadiyya message. Syed Abdul Razaq accepted Ahmadiyyat at the hands of Sheikh Noor Ahmad.
I directed Noor Ahmad to go Acca(Acre) on a very important mission (Italics added). He was surrounded by some goondas (Qadiani call Palestine freedom fighters by this name-compiler). He, however, reached Haifa safely and God saved him from mischief-mongers of Acca."5
The Zionist movement entered into a crucial phase in the year 1946. The Jewish terrorist organizations specially Hagana and Sterrn acquired arms and brutally attacked Palestinian freedom fighters. Most of their lands were grabbed and they were forced to flee to neighbouring areas. Jews had in fact taken control of the Palestine administration and had paralysed the British mandatory system.
In those days we find Qadianis very actively working for the Zionist cause. Jalal-ud-Din Shams, Qadiani missionary London, one time a notorious spy planted in the Middle East, was replaced by Mushtaq Ahmad Bajwa on 15 July 1946. Shams was asked to take up his Middle East Mission. The London Mission arranged a farewell party for Shams on 20 July. Sir Zafarullah was in London at that time. He was going to Canada to attend the Pacific Relations Conference as an Indian delegate. He chaired the meeting. A large number of former British civil servants of India and protagonists of Zionism attended it. Prominent among them were Sir Edward MacLagan (former Governor of the Punjab), Sir Frank Bevin, Hon. Hough MP, Lord Zetland (former Secretary of State for India), Lady Watson, Mr. John Philby and four member of the Rotary Club. 6
After about 3-week stay in Britain, Zafarullah left for America on 7 August 1946. In America, important Qadiani missions existed in Washington, Philadelphia, Indianapolis and some other cities of North. There were three Qadiani missionaries viz. Ch. Khalil Nasir, Sufi M.R.Bengali and Mirza Munawar Ahmad, engaged in propagation of Ahmadiyya beliefs and had close links with American Zionist organizations. During his stay in America, Sir Zafarullah discussed Palestine question with some Zionist and Arabs and got their viewpoint.
A report of Ch. Khalil Nasir states:
‘The arrival of Ch. Sir Zafarullah Khan in America was a happy news for Ahmadiyya community in America…He reached Chicago on 14 August… In the same evening he wass given a reception by the Ahmadiyya Mission in Syrian Mecca Restaurant. Two advocates, a professor and some journalists were invited. A large number of Arabs residing in Chicago were also present at the function.’7
On 17 August, meeting was arranged in Chicago City. Many Ahmadis participated in it. In this 4-day stay in America, he held numerous meetings with the Arabs and Zionist leaders. He left for Canada on 19 August. After attending the Conference, he met American President Roosevelt. Before his return to India he stayed in London for sometime.
In those crucial days when the Jews made every effort to establish a state in Palestine, J.D.Shams’ mission to Middle East had a great significance in many respects. He toured the areas where Arabs were being constantly terrorized and attacked by the Zionist paramilitary organizations. He held discussions with Arab leaders over the Palestine issue in Jerusalem. Sheikh Noor Ahmad, in one of his reports from Palestine to Qadian says:
‘Shams arrived in Haifa from Cairo on 31 August. He was welcomed by the Haifa and Kababir Jama'ats. On 3rd September I (Sheikh Noor Ahmad) alongwith Shams and Ch. Mohammad Sharif, left for Jerusalem on a very important mission (Italics added). Before that I had spent one month in Jerusalem. We were guided by Alhaj Ilm Din Sialkoti. We are thankful to him. Molvi Shams also met Syed Owfi Abdul Hadi Bey. He expressed his views on Palestine issue and gave him a very important piece of advice.’ 8
Sheikh Noor Ahmad further states that Shams went to Syria and held a meeting with the Syrian Foreign Minister. After the World-War-II, Syrians had launched a movement against the colonialist as a result of which the French and British troops withdrew in early 1946. Political situation in Syria was very critical. A report of Sheikh Noor Ahmad says:
‘In the morning of 7 October, JD Shams, Syed Munir-ul-Hasani and I left for Damascus. The Syrian Foreign Ministry had been carrying out investigation about me for the last 3 months and had finally allowed me to stay in Syria only for one month. Syria had only recently thrown off the yoke of foreign domination and was undergoing a political turmoil. Syrian authorities kept a close watch on foreigners….Many political parties had started functioning. A few days ago, the Syrian Government arrested thirty spies. During his short stay in Syria Shams met the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister. 9’
From Syria, J.D.Shams moved to Iraq. In Baghdad he held discussions with Syed Taufiq Sadidi, former Prime Minister of Iraq and met Abdulla in Regent Simola. He also saw the members of Al-Jamiat-ul-Hindya( a predominantly Qadiani organization operating in Iraq since early 30s), and exchanged views with them on (Palestine Issue).
It seems that Qadianis were selling the federation plan to Arabs which was given by Henry Grady, an American Ambassador and Theodor Marrison, British Lord of President of Council. 10 The plan envisaged division of Palestine into three parts, the major part was under Arab Government, the Negev, below Beir Sheba under the direct rule of England and an area of 1500 sq. meters to form Jewish home land. It was rejected by the World Zionist Organization. Al-Futuwah and Al-Najadah were resisting the Zionist terrorism. Iraq, Syria and the Lebanon were showing great concern for the future of Palestine.
On 16 October, Shams along with Amir-al-Hasni, Qadiani missionary of Syria, left for Qadian. Hasni stayed in Qadian for a few days and then proceeded to Syria with fresh instructions from Qadian.
On his arrival in Lahore, a correspondent of Associated Press of America interviewed Shams and put questions on the Palestine issue. He strongly pleaded in favour of the confederation scheme and commended the role played by Britain for the sake of Arab Palestinians. He disclosed that the British had been extending support to the Muslims in arriving at solution of the Palestine problem. 11 His statement was nothing except a travesty of facts. British policy towards the Palestine problem was manifestly pro-Zionist in orientation.
In the light or reports submitted by Shams and Munir-ul-Hasni, Mirza Mahmud sent Rashid Ahmad Chughatai to Palestine to support the Zionist schemes and assist Ch.Sharif and Sheikh Noor Ahmad in their work.
Soviet Support Predicted
Many solutions to the Jewish problem were proposed which included partition, federalization, cantonization and multiple varies of these plans. In February 1947, on the assumption that the Mandate has proved unworkable, the British Government placed the problem of Palestine before the UN. A UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) was formed to discuss the issue. The Jews of Eastern Europe and Russia had been exerting their influence to gain the Soviet favour for the Jewish cause. They appealed to Marshal Stalin and the Communist Party for support in their struggle for a homeland in Palestine. Stalin himself was a Jew.
In May 1947, Mirza Mahmud gave good tidings to the Zionists in the customary language of dream indications from God. The Jews were assured of Russian help through this dream:
"Day before yesterday, when I woke up at night, the following theme revealed to me. ‘A Modified Treaty has been concluded between Britain and Russia resulting in the frustration and anarchy in the Islamic countries of the Middle East.’ Modified means ‘absorbed’ or 'central.’ I think it refers to the conclusion of a prospective secret treaty between Britain and Russia. Britain would be forced to come to terms with Russia perhaps due to external pressure or other dangers involved. At that time the countries of Iraq, Palestine and Syria came to my mind. The proposed Anglo-Soviet treaty had caused frustration and restlessness in Arab countries. It appeared strange how and why despite rivalry with Russia, Britain had entered into a treaty with it. It seems Britain and America had been forced by political circumstances or expediency to shed past antagonism. Russia could also do so." 12 (continued part-2)
Yesterday at 11:38am · Report
We Love Muhammad Rasoolullah (P.B.U.H.) Both at international level and in the UN, Russia provided all possible support to Zionists in the establishment of Israel.
In the UN
Pakistan delegation to the UN was led by Sir Zafarullah, the Foreign Minister of Pakistan and included Mirza A.H Ispahani, Pakistan Ambassador in Washington, Mir Laiq Ali, Abdul Sattar Pirzada and Begum Tasadduq Hussain.
The position taken up by Pakistan with regard to Palestine in the UN was that the Balfour Declaration and the League’s Mandate were invalid and against the wishes of people and the proposal of partition was contrary to the Charter.13
The Ad Hoc Committee to which Palestine question was referred by the General Assembly, appointed two sub-committees to deal with it. These sub-committees were so constituted that all the members of sub-committee I were in favour of the partition while the member of sub-committee II opposed partition. Thus there was no hope of a compromise solution emerging from either sub-committees. To redress this situation, the Chairman of sub-committee II, who was the representative of Colombia, requested the Chairman of the Ad Hoc Committee to nominate two states holding a neutral attitude in place of two Arab states, who were members of the sub-committee and who were willing to resign from it. On the refusal of the Chairman of the Ad Hoc Committee, the representative of Colombia resigned his Chairmanship of sub-committee II and Sir Zafarullah was elected in his place. 14
Sub-committee I, in its report recommended the internationalization of Jerusalem and the partition of rest of Palestine into two states, one Arab and the other Jewish, with a common economic council. Sub-committee II recommended a unitary state for the whole of Palestine with constitutional safeguards for the rights of all its inhabitants.
A Crucial Mission
Although Mirza Mahmud left Qadian and had come to Lahore and was faced with the crucial problem of finding a place to set up a centre in Pakistan, he never lost sight of Palestine question. When the issue was being discussed in the UN, he instructed Hakim Fazal Rahman, Qadiani missionary of Nigeria, to visit Palestine immediately. Walillah Shah and Jalaluddin Qamar were also instructed to go to Middle East and East Africa respectively to provide support to them. Hakim Fazal Rahman reached Beirut on 31 October 1947. Sheikh Noor Ahmad, Qadiani missionary Palestine writes:
"Hakim sahib suddenly arrived in Beirut and made effort to search me out. I was in Lebanon to see the cousin of Jamil Bek, the Prime Minster of Lebanon. I met Hakim Sahib on my return from Lebanon. Since he had to reach Pakistan, he wanted to go to Palestine at the very earliest. Anyhow, he left for Palestine on 4 November. Jama'at Kababir welcomed him, Hakim Sabib toured the cities of Jerusalem, Nasara, and Acca. He desired to see members of the Arab League Committee but owing to shortage of time he could not visit them. He stayed in Palestine for ten days. Then he left for Damascus. 15
Noor Ahmad further states that he went to Beirut in connection with a very important work. During his absence from Damascus, Hakim Sahib saw many Barristers and Advocates, besides military officers. Hakim left for Karachi on 22 November 1947." 16
Palestine issue came under frequent discussions in Lahore. In an important meeting held at Lahore, Mirza Mahmud discussed it in the context of an Arabic revelation of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad which says:‘The holy men (Abdals) of Syria prayed for us (Arabic).‘ He interpreted it to mean that a section of Ahmadiyya Jama'at had to go to Syria in near future.
'Hazoor (Mirza Mahmud) while discussing the revelation of the Promised Messiah that ‘Abdals of Syria prayed for you' declared that a friend had drawn his attention to the point that the Promised Messiah ‘s revelation had come in the context of those revelations which signified distress. Hazoor said that this revelation had already been under his consideration. In Palestine adverse condition were prevailing. However, it would be possible that a section of Ahmadiyya Jama'at from us might have to go Syria. The revelation can be interpreted in two ways: One that the Abdal of Syria prayed to God for us and the other that they called us.‘ 17
In the UN, Sir Zafarullah opposed the partition scheme in accordance with the stand taken by Pakistan on the Palestine issue. It may be recalled that the Quaid had always supported the Palestinian cause in numerous conferences, interviews, press releases and through the resolutions of the Muslim League at its annual sessions, Council and Working Committee Meetings from 1937-48.18 Pakistan's stand was absolutely clear. In reply to a question by Reuter's correspondent Duncan Hooper (25 October 1947), the Quaid said:
‘The leader of our delegation to the UN, Sir Muhammad Zafarullah Khan, has clearly defined our position regarding the latest developments in Palestine.’ 19
Strangely enough when discussions were going on the partition scheme in the UN, Zafarulla started proposing amendments to it, which meant that he, in principle, agreed to the scheme if it was slightly amended. That was said to be done on the suggestion of Danish representative with a view to ‘crippling’ the scheme. Zafarullah says that he proposed an amendment just to see the reaction on it but the amendment was immediately accepted after voting. Syed Jamal-ul-Hussaini, the leader of the Palestine delegation hurriedly approached him and enquired why he had done like that. Sir Zafarullah says that he explained the position and apprised him of the Danish strategy. 20 To his utter surprise, he asked him in case all of his amendments were accepted he would favour the partition scheme:
Zafarullah: No! We wil
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