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God WILLl have the last say

  1. donnaisabella profile image85
    donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago

    I have not been in the forums for months. But amazingly, not surprisingly, people are still kicking against the 'goads'. No matter what we do or say, no matter how hard we kick, sneer, mock scream, rationalize and go up and down to show our evidence, hypothesis or whatever it is, God (Jehovah: In case you are in doubt which God I am talking about) will still have the last say. That makes me smile. So, do not jump in to say something, think a little while....

    1. Michael Adams1959 profile image42
      Michael Adams1959posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I like that, think a minute what you will say, I like that

    2. 69
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friend  donnaisabella

      I don't agree with you, sorry.

      I think if one is of positive thinking and one doesn't have a negative thinking meaning one is not Skeptic; then one is evolved very natuallay to believe in the ONE Creator- God Allah YHWH; there is no doubt about it. Even then one  can smile while treading on the truthful path and being very sure of it. A good smile is good for one's health.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. donnaisabella profile image85
        donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I raised no argument about God. My God is Yahweh. I go to Him through Christ Jesus. If Christ is your messiah too, welcome bro! As for being a peaceful muslim, I can only say, Christ has given me the peace to rest in Him. I have nothing to fear.

      2. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        There are many fine people living nice lives being positive. There are many people who seem to be good and nice and full of sweetness. Where does it say that god owes these people anything?
        If ye believe on the Lord jesus christ and admit that all have sinned and come short of the glory of god and ask for remission of sin through repentance, then shall ye know god and no other way, for those that come up through the back way or by another door will in no wise inherit the things of god. Pretty simple directions.

        i am yochanan a peaceful christian smile

    3. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jehovah???

      1. 0
        TYPOLADYposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        in gods holy word the bible it says in psalms 83:18 That men may know that,thou,whose name alone is Jehovah,art the most high over all the earth.

    4. 0
      eternaltreasuresposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      GOD will have the LAST LAUGH

      Pro 1:24  Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,
      Pro 1:25  because you have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof,
      Pro 1:26  I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you,
      Pro 1:27  when terror strikes you like a storm and your calamity comes like a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you.

    5. 0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Have a good time and please do let us know what the dude says, oh shoot you can't, because he is going to have the last say

      my mistake

      btw am I the one who has had the last say?


      roll

  2. Pandoras Box profile image81
    Pandoras Boxposted 6 years ago

    Good luck with that. Smile away.

    1. Rod Marsden profile image85
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with both of you.

  3. LeanMan profile image81
    LeanManposted 6 years ago

    Will he be posting on the "last one to post is the winner" thread???

    1. donnaisabella profile image85
      donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, by the way, thanks for the reminder. That is what was on my mind when I wrote this. Every body wants to be a winner. Do not waste your time, God will have the last say eventually.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wow - He is that pathetic? Dear me. My god wouldn't need to say anything - and He certainly wouldn't need someone like you threatening in his name. Can't you think up a decent god that doesn't need people like you to threaten us with him?

        1. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Mark smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            big_smile

        2. donnaisabella profile image85
          donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I knew! I knew! I knew! Hi Mark. It has been long brother.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why is he waiting so long?  There are folks dying down here.  Since you are apparently on close terms with him, ask him to get the lead out.  He'll probably listen to you!

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Acording to what is written in the bible; God promised to give  a false religion 42 months to do its thang.
          (Prophetic months is diffrent than our months)

            If I got it figured right? those 42 months will soon be over ...very soon.

          1. sabrebIade profile image85
            sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I read that "Revelation 11:2,3 shows that the prophetic month contains 30 days."
            That's 1260 days.
            Do you have a different formula for the months?
            I'm always open to new interpretations.

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              A prophetic Month contains 30 Prophetic days.
              Many theologians teach that a day is a year which is not correct.

                Gabriel reveals the proper comparison in Daniel 9

                !st verse identifies the year that the events in that chapter ocured. 538 BC
                He said that in 62 weeks they were going to kill the Messiah.

              568 years later later they did  If Jesus was the Messiah.
              62 weeks = 568 years 

                That is the way I figure it.  7 days = approx 9.1 to 9.2 earthly years.
                  Seems pretty simple to me. 43 months would be approx 1650 of our years I think

              1. sabrebIade profile image85
                sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Okay thanks.
                Just curious.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            There are many false religions, including Christianity.  Which one did God give the time limit to?

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry about the delay; a thunder storm rolled over head and I temporarily lost satalite...
                 To answer your question   
                This as hard answer for such a simple question.
              To put it simply Organized religion is the beast that was given 42 months.
                How long 42 monthes is, is another issue but 1260 days is approx 1638 to 1656 of our years.
              That forty two months began around 359 or 380 AD. or something and would end  between....  1997 to 2036.

                 There are other factors we could consider that can close this figure a little tighter but I do not want to get into all of the details now .

                But this can be closed in to about 2012 and 2015.

                 By using the 9.1 to 9.2 years = a week equation whenever a prophesy stipulates a time frame draws a explicit picture.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And if you are wrong you will be in good company with many other "doomsday" advocates who thought THEY knew when this would happen.

                This is what comes of believing ancient superstitious writings by ancient superstitious people.  I wouldn't waste ten seconds even considering the prophecies of illiterate unwashed goat herders.

                But that is just me.  But we will only have to wait five years at most to find out if you are right. And if you are wrong will this make any difference in your beliefs?  Of course not, you will just read more of the same junk and form even more assumptions.  But I suppose you enjoy this or you wouldn't spend so much time on it. So, enjoy yourself and good luck on the time line.

                Perhaps you will be the first to be right!  LOL!  Seeya Jerami!

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not predicting an end of the world.
                     To do that would be making an interpretation.  Dooms Day is an interpretation

                     You have read more into what I am saying than what I actually said.
                     All that I have done is to analitically applied a mathmatical calculation based upon 62 weeks = 568 years,
                     Without interpreting a meaning to the prophesy but working a math problem.
                     42 months = approx 1650 years that some kind of organization is said to reak havock upon the world.

                      Who could that be? 
                    we can apply this equation to all prophesy that contains a timeframe and a beginning point and see what ever we see.

                     I can tell ya one thing! that is;  anyone that does this will have false interpretations falling off of them like dead flys.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    But this is so vague as to be not even worth mentioning, Jerami.  And dead flies do not prevent anyone from making more out of superstitious words than they ever have.

                    These interpreted words do affect some peoples minds though.  And seldom in a positive manner.  There's more harm in them than good!

            2. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
              Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Chill people. Sometimes an end is good- if its natural. Who wants to go on for ever doing the same thing anyway. But if The end is Calculable or not, we will know for sure eventually. Time has a way of proving things. I believe in the bible. But if anyone would stop and think...humans cant really tell the future. They can only make educated guesses based on the information at hand. And as for the bible.. It says that no man will know the hour or the day in  which the Lord comes. only the Father in Heaven will know-Mark 19:32. The only thing you can do is get your hearts ready for that day.But even if the" God-Thing" werent true, the christians-allthough not perfect and still sin, would still be t-r-y-i-n-g to do the right thing or (let me rephrase that), a good and moral thing by causing a positive belief system in this hopeless world. And when they leave this world, they would have less regrets and a sound mind by the time their bodies are layed to rest. In other words they would be free from a guilty consious.It's not really that far-fetched of a concept. It's all about peace and love and joy.M y life has improved and I am alot happier and healthier being freed from drugs and alcohol. And it's all because of my belief in the love of a God that has good thoughts of us, thoughts of peace and not evil, and to give us a future and a hope. Jeremiah-29:11. You see...Everything bad in this world is because we dal with the consequences of our actions...our decisions. We are faced with choices. If we make the wrong choice-well, we have to deal with it till its over. But thats the ABC"S of life basically. But in the belief of a christian, they don't have to deal with it alone. They have a God that sees them through it and gives them the strength to persevere. I'm not enforcing my belief on you. Your entitled to your own. I just wanted to let you know soe of my reasons for believing. But wether you believeor not, I hope God Blesses you daily.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Of course you are entitled to your beliefs, no matter how vague and confusing other superstitious people have decided they should be.  Religion isn't required for a person to do good.  Many would have you think so, however.

                Religion always has been, and still is, a way to control people and to gain power for the controllers.  As simple as that!  If you think you meed a god to be a good person, then you probably do!

                1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
                  Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Religion isn't a hope for me personally to do good. I've always been a good person towards every one and in life in general. It is a hope in something better in man kind. when you don't have hope with all this craziness and chaos in the world, what do you have. If you are in the right church who preaches about the gospel-not man made rules and dictations, then everything is a choice. You choose to believe or not, you choose to do good or not, you choose to love or not, etc. Eventhough you still have those choices when your not a christian, Beliveing in God helps to create love either way. Have you read the bible? Do you know what the theme of the bible is? The theme is LOVE. It can't get any greater than that. God created us with a free will. We either choose to accept him or we don't. If he was a god, controlling our every move-like Hitler, we wouldn't have free will. We wouldn't have a choice. Where there is a feeling like people are trying to control you then that is not of God. Christianity is not a list of do's and don'ts, it is about moral choices and real love for all creation.

                  1. getitrite profile image81
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                    You only read PART of the bible! Right?

                  2. 0
                    sandieganlizposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Say it any way you like, but organized religion has its flaws. For instance, if Christianity is all about spreading love and hope, then why does the denomination impede on other cultures, claiming to spread the word, when really they just want to take over and control the people? "Oh, we'll give you God if you give us all your resources!" "Accept God in your Life OR Go to Hell." Please! If God really wanted Christianity to spread truth, hope, and love, God woulda made it the perfect religion. Did God make it the perfect religion, or was it the guns and mind-control from the eager, power-searching, greedy followers whom claimed it was "Manifest Destiny?" (God's Will, right?) Not to say that Christians don't spread love, hope, and joy (whether it be false or not) but they also spread fear, control, and ultimatums. It may make you happy and serene one day, but it will make you feel dirty and sinful the next! Puh-lease; happiness and peace come from within and from one's own surroundings and affiliates, and in hope, knowing this world ISN'T the end because eventually one dies! If you take a closer look at the history of organized religions, you will see a congregation set on enclosing boundaries, prejudices, and high-moral standards, with the latter being okay, in my opinion. Some of us need to just get our noses out of the book and look at the bigger picture--there is beauty and magnificence on this planet, social circles which need to either co-exist or ignore each other, and prophets whom foretell the future and face(d) prosecution for doing so.

  4. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    Hay...buhay.

  5. luvpassion profile image60
    luvpassionposted 6 years ago

    goads?

  6. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I will add that the church has many things right. The God of Abraham does exist who or what ever he is.
    I do believe that Jesus was and is the Messiaha spoken of throught out scripture.
      The church just messed up the prophesy thing. And of course those things that  was effected changing prophesy.

       Even though religiousity is the beast,  Those that go to church are not the beast.  Many concepts or religion are good and some are not.
       So I am not being judgmental in any way.
       Interpretating scripture is not good and we do it without realizing.  We just gotta learn to quit that part.

  7. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    You must be reading a different bible to me. Mine says this.

    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

        Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    Kill Witches

        You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

    Kill Homosexuals
        "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    Kill Fortunetellers

        A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

    Death for Hitting Dad

        Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

    Full of love isn't it? lol

    1. Rod Marsden profile image85
      Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Earnest you make some good points.

      Mind you I don't care much for: You should not let a sorceress  live.

      I prefer the original King James version which reads:

      "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

      It was to make King James happy. The original word in Greek would not translate as witch but poisoner but since the king reckoned witches were poisoners anyway it didn't matter.

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well put.
        King James made quite a few changes to suit himself didn't he?
        Being careless with the truth to make things suit is a biblical tradition! lol

        1. Rod Marsden profile image85
          Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I can't say you are wrong Earnest. Martin Luther tried for honesty with his German version but he was still working with material that had been tampered with so he could only do so much.

          The King James version of the bible was all politics. It was the first version in English to be approved of by a reigning king and therefore the government. There had been other English versions but not being approved of by the government meant if you were caught with one you were in a lot of trouble.

    2. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
      Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I know that is what was said. That was in the old testement. I'm not saying the old testement has no value. but i am saying that jesus came so that through him we can have LIFE and have it more abundantly.  Through jesus death and ressurection in the new testement there came a new covenant. Our sins are covered by His blood if we accept him and repent. He died for the lost souls and those who chose to trust in him. He chose to die for us so we would have a way for forgiveness and eternal life with out sacrifice through burnt offerings. God does not judge by hatred in his heart. he cant hate or lie. If we dont accept him then he cant know us. to know someone is to build a relationship with that person. Right? So When we accept him, our lives are made new. God said in Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope."
      God doesn't play favorites. He loves us all the same. What he'll do for me, he'll do for you if you let Him. But when it comes down to it, God judges righteously and with love, not with biased judgment filled with hate. Do you judge your loved ones with love or hate? I say leave the judgement to God and trust in his wisdom and mercy. After all, he must be merciful and loving...Murderers, liars, adulterers, child rapists, bigots, idoloters, and many other sinners like us are still alive and walking around. Maybe He's just waiting on us to come to him and accept him as our savior.

      1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
        Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        My previous post was for ernest about kiling witches or sorcrers and everything else. but it does prove true as far as what it says. But Like Rod said . It was all politics then. allthough I don't believe everybit of it was politics. I do believe however, that when you get a man who is translating something spiritual and he has no belief in it whatsoever, things can be manipulated to suit the man and whatever he does believe. I just thank God for the references to the translations through the Hebrew and Greek languages. They are more convincing of the love of God than what king james himself wrote. Regardless of who wrote it or how he manipulated it, I still believe there is truth in it. and I never doubt the love of God for anything. In all this mess of world that man has created, with out the hope of the love of God, how much further in chaos would we be compared to now?

        1. Rod Marsden profile image85
          Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          As far as I know King James didn't put down word one when it came to the King James version of the bible. He did however have final approval and those putting it together did want to please him. One reason for this was that he was paying the bills. Another reason was that he was the King. King James did write a book on witches and witchcraft so any references in the King James version of the bible to how bad witches are or how they should be punished would be someone trying to score points with him which is, well, politics.

          1. 69
            paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi friends

            May be it is called King James Version as it was done while he ruled.

            Thanks

            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

            1. Rod Marsden profile image85
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yes paarsurrey it was done while King James ruled but it was also the first official bible in English so it had to also get his approval.

              1. 69
                paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Hi friend Rod Marsden

                But the Catholics don't like it. Do they?

                Thanks

                I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                1. Rod Marsden profile image85
                  Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  The catholics and the Protestants were not getting along too well when the King James version of the bible was put together. The Catholics have their own version of the bible and there are quite a few other versions around.

                  I can't honestly say what the Catholics think of the King James version of the bible. You would have to ask a Catholic. For all I know they might be okay with it.

                  1. 69
                    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi friend Rod Marsden

                    I have been writing on the Catholic discussion forum for quite sometime ; they won't except references from the Protestant version, King James included, unless it was from a Catholic Bible. They cannot except it as they think Protestants to be heretical and the vice a versa. I don't know which one of the versions has spirit in it; and the spirit of which has died over a period of time. JWs and Mormons have their own versions; and since each one of them claims to be the only true Christians on Earth; maybe the spirit has gone to their side, or simply it is dead.

                    Thanks

                    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                2. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
                  Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  from what i hear, catholics dont like anything unless it invovles gold. but that was an opinion of someone who doesnt believe in god. I dont know how catholics believe.

        2. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          Where is the logic in this statement?  Not knowing the veracity of a written document leaves room for GRAVE doubt. And...tell me how I can use this same logic in other areas of my life, other than religion?



          Since there is no hope of the love of god, you are experiencing that chaos now.  But you can't accept that as the answer to your question, because you need to base your answers on the wisdom of filthy, ignorant Bronze-Age goat herders.

      2. 59
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Notice Earnest, that believers will acknowledge (sort of) that their gods scriptures are written before them, but will immediately forget about the nasty parts while in one fell swoop turn the tables back on you.

        Cherry picking the bible.

        1. Rod Marsden profile image85
          Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Cherry picking has its points Q. If it means less violence and more good will maybe that isn't such a bad thing.

          1. 59
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It also means hypocrisy on a grand scale and the fact that it has already done more harm than good.

            1. Rod Marsden profile image85
              Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe. Maybe not. I can't balance the scales on that one. What I do know is that I would rather have Christians the way they are now than during the Crusades.

  8. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Celina Vanhoozer wrote:
    Regardless of who wrote it or how he manipulated it, I still believe there is truth in it. and I never doubt the love of God for anything.

    Jerami ....  I agree with you ....  The written word can be manipulated...  A private relationship can't be.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Of course it can Jerami. Especially when it is with an invisible, imaginary undefinable.

      People manipulate themselves all the time. wink

    2. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      You agree with this?  I think her staement is sheer madness.  She has doubts about the author, and about the veracity of the bible, but still believes there is truth in it.  OMG!

      How on earth can you discern what parts are true, and which have been manipulated?  The odds are stacked, firmly, against you, but you don't seem to care much for logic, reason, intelligence, etc.

      You are simply agreeing to be naive and foolish.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Someone can write a book about you and do a very poor job of it. Does that mean that you never existed?

          As I have always said and continue to say; Ya gotta understand the prophesy in the book before ya can see which things make sense and what don't.
          But no one wants to do this.

        1. getitrite profile image81
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, but this analogy is flawed, because, unlike your god, I can be detected by the senses.  Furthermore, are you implying that just because someone wrote a book about your god that he exists,  although the book is the only evidence? 

          You can continue your assertions about understanding prophesy, but if you were to expand the parameters of your thinking, you would see that this, too, is not valid.

          ...because

          The authors of the bible did not merely write a book about your god, they CREATED your god, along with this false prophesy.

    3. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
      Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jerami. I am glad you said that statement about not doughting the love of god. I figured out who doesnt believe in this forum but i couldnt figure out who does. Glad to know you dont dought. I never dought the love of god.

      getitrite, of course i have doughts about the author(hello...mankind) but about the truth of the bible...nope. no doughts. The truth of god...no doughts there either. Everything the bible said would happen has either already happened or happening now. How can it be false prophecy when things that were prophesied are happening now. we are in the midst of everything the bible is telling us. go ahead and read it..I promise the WORD will not kill you. it might enlighten you.As far as evidence..people believe in the theory of  evolution as presented by Darwin..no proof whatsoever...More proof has been submitted about the bible than there has been of Darwins theory of evolution. Also, a god doesnt exist just because a book is written. God exists in the hearts of those who choose to believe. But here is my anological take on this particular statement. first of all assuming you dont believe because you havent seen..neither have I. But I've never seen million dollars either, but I know it exists. I know you'll have something to say about some tangible evidence of somethings existence. But either way, the existence of money can't bring us hope if it is not in our individual life. just as much as God cant bring us hope if he is not in our individual life.

      Mark maybe jerami was refering to the spiritual individual relationship with god-that is the only relationship that cannot be manipulated. but relationships between two humans which include mindgames(a mans control of another-not gods control over you) can be manipulated.

      getitrite-humans are very good at creating things..no dought there either. but Your words stated previously that men back then were" filthy, ignorant, bronze-Aged goat herders." If these men were that filthy and ignorant, how can you say that they were educated enough to create a magnificent book of interconnecting relationships, prophecies, miracles, love, tragic, murder etc. and create a god that represents the love regardless of what mankind does? Is that just "sheer madness" when you think about how contradictive you are to your own words. No disrespect to you personnally. just trying to make a point.

  9. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    MK said     People manipulate themselves all the time.
    ====================================================
         
       Good to see that you are feeling well today.
    And you are absolutely correct.  We all manipulate our selves both mentally and physically.

       I sometimes think that everyone on the earth is a bit delusional.   Except for me of course.  or is that just another delusion ?   Oh well ... I choose to think not

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well - at least we agree on the fact that  a personal relationship (which I do not believe you have) with the invisible super being is as easily manipulated as the written word.

      Yes - I am feeling well. Hoping I get to come take you up on your offer one of these days. I miss BBQ and live music from the USA

  10. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Everyone has a personal relationship with whatever they think is real.
       I sometimes think that this whole thing is nothing but a dream that someone else is having and   "they"   are going to wake up soon and all of this will be gone. 
      JUST KIDDING  I think? 

       As far as the BBQ goes come on with it.  But I warn ya, summertime with 95 - 100 degrees with 95% humity isn't so pleasent here in Texas. South Texas is a good place to visit in the winter.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Last time I was there it snowed - January. sad

      Don't agree with you on the "whatever they think is real" because that is just semantics. You do not have a personal relationship with a god. This is just semantics used by people who see how evil religion is but like to pretend they are not promoting it when they are. wink

  11. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I have been spening way too much time on here and my house is about to fall down.  I gotta go and fix something in my
    honey-do-book.  See ya later.

  12. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    I am not implying that JUST because someone wrote a book...
       To say "Jesus died to pay for my sins and I'm going to heaven"... relys upon 50% prophesy and 50% hearsay that is written in the book.  I don't think anyone believes just because of the book.
     
      My intentions is to encourage believers to read the scriptures instead of "JUST taking the word of others" as to what is in them.  I have no intentions of converting any non believers. 
       The reason that I focus on the prophesy is because the content of the bible is over 50% prophesy.
      No one can understand what is written in any book by understanding half of it.

  13. getitrite profile image81
    getitriteposted 6 years ago

    I thinks it's asinine to believe that God(the creator of all that's in existence) would reveal his will to man, a primate species, on an insignificant planet, who is as insignificant as maggots.

    The concept of Prophesy is illogical.  The future has not been revealed to anyone, no matter how much proof one professes to have.

    However, wishful thinking is a true phenomenon.

    1. donnaisabella profile image85
      donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do you think of yourself as no better than a maggot? That is so not true, you use words to justify what you are saying. In some places I even think you,'Q', Mark Knowles and Rod think you are better than God. It amazes me.

      You spend most of your time scoffing at Christians, criticizing, bullying and plain making fun of religious people (especially Christians) but you think you are better than God by pointing out all the horrible things He has done in History. There are things we call justice and things that should happen, I have no excuse for what people see as sadism in the Bible. If that be it, we of this generation and those before us are the worst. Talk about WWI, WWII, talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, talk about Vietnam, Rwanda, Burundi, Bosnia, I can fill books with names of nations and peoples where violence has reigned, not in the name of God. It is in the name of security and whatever else you would like to call it.

      There are wars we fight and they are all for a reason. I see no difference in the pattern of the Bible. Today, we are still killing and doing horrible things in other names. Who are you to think you are better than God?

      Earnesthub, I am tired of your favorite Bible scriptures. Read the whole Bible and get to know the God of love, do not be stuck in that rut! The Bible is beautiful and I have no apologies about it. Primitive societies were worse, thank God for, Yes GOD, for civilization, we have the freedom of speech and expression. But God will surely have the last say, no matter how long it lasts. And for you Mark Knowles, why should that be taken as a threat?

      1. Rod Marsden profile image85
        Rod Marsdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        No one is saying they are better than God. The bible was put together by people and people are not perfect and are not God.

      2. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOL

        God will have the last say? LOLOLO
        Not a threat? LOLOLO

        Dear me. And of course I am better that your god. I exist. wink

        LOL that you think you can speak for god and all you can do is attack others who do not believe the garbage you believe and threaten them with a judgment that your bible expressly tells you you are not qualified or authorized to offer.

        As an atheist, my morals are far, far superior to yours. I am not fettered with a belief in a non existent deity, therefore I am capable of determining what is and is not the moral thing to do. I do not think murder and wars are acceptable, yet you believe - "There are things we call justice and things that should happen" and condone war and murder based on this. Terrible lack of morals and this is the reason we have had so many so-called "necessary wars" - sheeple like you following a 2,000 year old book that you do not understand.

        I will continue to scoff at you. You are deluded into believing you are authorized to threaten and speak for a god and you deserve it.

        The bible is responsible for many of the ills of the world and I genuinely believe we would be better off if it had never been written. Even today - you are using it to cause conflict. Because you think you have authority to speak for god.

        Scoff, scoff, scoff.

        1. donnaisabella profile image85
          donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Scoff, scoff, scoff, Mark Knowles - that is war you are starting. Let us not even talk about morals. It is the empty tin that makes the loudest noise. You judge.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I certainly hear you banging the tin drum if that is what you mean. Who started this conversation? Again? You judge. That is what Christians do best is it not?

      3. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Can you prove that when a maggot dies, its soul goes nowhere, while your "precious" soul goes to heaven?  In fact, can you prove the maggot has no soul, while you have a soul that God loves and seeks?

        And, of course, I am better than your God.  I couldn't stoop to the level of murder and mayhem.  I shutter just to think that I could not be better than that.

        And your God is not omniscient.  He's not even intelligent.  If He were why would He keep making mistakes with humans---to the point of having to sacrifice His only begotten son to rectify his terrible blundering?  YES! I am better than that.

        1. donnaisabella profile image85
          donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You just prove it here on hub pages with a love that is not prideful, intelligence that is progressive, humor that is gentle and words that are healing? I would not argue with you about that. My question to you was rhetorical, hey god, you could not tell the difference? You are not God. By the way, I am called Isabella, why do they call it a maggot? Different specie isn't it? Even my 6 year old daughter would be amazed at your level of thinking. But, if you have not read it, Read Psalm 14:1 and let the Bible tell you.

          So the Bible was written by man, who said they were its authors? Arguments like that are senseless to me because I have an understanding that only God gives and gentlemen, you need it. No matter how hard you fight, God's word will triumph. Do you think you are the first scoffers and non believers? They have always been there since the beginning of time. And they have not won any victories, they are born, live meaningless lives, die, are buried and forgotten even by their creator! But one day, they will rise up to damnation, because they chose it. Not because God condemned them to it. IT IS YOUR CHOICE. I HAVE MADE MINE.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, I have known many scoffers who have done quite well.  Most have won victories and lived very full lives.  of course the things they scoffed at, religion, false prophets, those pretending to speak for god, holier than thou types, were simply the right things to do.

            Pretty much shoots your theory right out of the saddle, huh!  But you are probably the exception.LOL!

            1. donnaisabella profile image85
              donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And what is that glaring green snake symbol of yours? Hey bro, I rest my case because God WILL still have the last say. Rest in Peace.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The "glaring green symbol" is a smilie and means nothing important at all.  It no more represents anything malicious than your head wrap means you are of the Muslim faith.  Now you are getting desperate if you must try to use a smilie to disparage my opinions.  Not surprising coming from a Christian though!  Most of you guys pay no heed to the "judge not, lest.." scripture from your novel.   

                Face it, you do not have the ability to decide what is right for anyone but yourself.  But you are in good company here with others who insist only they know what is right.  Sad!

                1. donnaisabella profile image85
                  donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Do not tell me that green symbol is a smile? See, that is how things are being perverted. How on earth am I supposed to know that something which looks like a green mamba (and they are scary) is supposed to be a smile. In which world. Honestly tell me if that is even close to normal brother. As for my head band, go to Africa brother it is not a religious symbol, it is like you wearing a tie. Muslim women do not wear head bands. I am not a guy, just in case you think so.

                  There are things we cannot judge, but, as Christians, we do have the authority to judge the world. You also do judge, just like you did with my headband. Does that upset me or do I think you are doing something wrong? No, every day we are judging actions - everything. Nothing wrong with judge. Perhaps it is better to be judged by fellow human beings here on earth before God himself judges you on that last and final day which is surely coming.

          2. getitrite profile image81
            getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



            Pleased to meet you Isabella.  I think I'll let King Solomon talk it over with you:

                      Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 (New International Version)
            19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.

            20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.

            21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal  goes down into the earth



                           VERSE 3-21 is the one I need to have explained.

          3. 59
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It sure is warm and fuzzy that you believe my life is meaningless and that I'll end up being damned by your god. You love your god for doing this to me, too. That would clearly indicate that the hatred your god has for me is the same hatred you have for me. Like you said, it is your choice and you have made it.

            1. h.a.borcich profile image60
              h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                Your life is what you choose it to be. A criminal chooses to be in prison by choosing to break the laws. Even if they refuse to take responsibility for what they did - they did it. They could have make different choices and had better consequences for their actions, but they didn't. They choose meaningless living.
              Do I rejoice in their choice? Not hardly. Do I think we should abolish the law so they can run free and terrorize the rest of us? No. The law is the law and consequences exist.
              Simple concept yet so elusive for some I guess.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No - we understand Holly. But - your imaginary friend does not exist and I will not be damned. I wonder why you choose to ignore what the OP is saying? Read it again:



                I don't see how you can not see this statement as offensive. Yet you are now defending it? I would never be so disgustingly offensive as to suggest your life is meaningless because you do not believe the same as I do, yet believers have been doing this since the bible was written.

                How is this acceptable behavior to be defended? This sort of rhetoric always has and always will provoke conflict and hatred. And you feel the need to defend this?

                Why? I can only assume you agree with this, in which case - don't be surprised when you get a negative reaction.

                1. aka-dj profile image78
                  aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  lol 
                  Seeing as He, has been around a heck of a long time, before you came to be,  I suspect He will be around for a heck of a long time after you are gone. So, I feel V E R Y confident, that He WILL have the last say.

                  lol
                  So keep saying (& saying, & saying, & saying...) your piece, for it will surely end one day.

                  sad
                  Now I'm not laughing any more!

                2. donnaisabella profile image85
                  donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Negative reaction from who? Since when did I get a positive reaction in the forums by talking about God? Your likes just flare up in anger and defense when we mention the Bible. Why? Because it is contrary to what you want to hear. Sorry, we cannot keep quiet and negate our responsibility as Christians just because there are those who will die saying No to God!

                  Let us do it this way; You embark on a mission to win people to your ideology or belief system of atheism. Teach them, and offer them life solutions that will take them through this life. You do your thing, we will not interfere; we too will do our thing and leave us alone. Afterwards, we will have an opportunity to compare whose forums drew the most positive and productive responses!

                  I do not see myself going into an atheist forum to trash their ideas unless they directly speak against what I believe and they do it in ignorance. Truth is, we all have the ability to defend ourselves and sometimes it can get really nasty if we let our guards down, but we have to remember as Christians that there is a time to say it as it is and there is a time when we know that we are not fighting mere human beings; flesh and blood. There is an army of evil that has been set loose in our earth and WE are NOT ignorant of 'his' devices.

                  1. getitrite profile image81
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                    I am shocked that this mode of thinking has made it all the way to the twenty-first century.

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Wow - it really does upset you that other people do not follow your ridiculous, hate filled belief system and you will fight them.

                    What happened to turning the other cheek? Oh - that is ri9ght - your sad pathetic god cannot speak for itself and you need to fight for it. LOLOL

                    Sorry - I forgot YOU KNOW and are FIGHTING THIS EVIL. Me - I suppose. wink

                    You just cannot see that this is what causes the evil can you?

                    "Talking about god" and actively threatening his damnation are 2 different things."

                    It is pretty obvious which one you are here to do.

                  3. 59
                    (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Unfortunately, your system has an invisible super being that will send everyone to hell if they don't obey him. That particular system is used by murderous despots and dictators to control people. It is a system of fear.

              2. 59
                (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Holly, I'm rather shocked, but not surprised that you would equate the worshiping of a god to that of criminal activity. Since, you don't worship Allah, for example, does that mean you are choosing a meaningless life and have chosen to go to Islamic hell? Should we abolish Islam so you can terrorize the rest of us?

                Seriously Holly, did you even read your response?

                1. h.a.borcich profile image60
                  h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this


                    Of course I read my reply, and I stand by it.
                    The point that eluded you was consequences of a choice. Ponder that a while - see what you come up with.
                    The spiritual realm is similar to the physical realm - choices and consequences apply. My choice spiritually is christianity and I will bear the consequences of that choice whether allah likes it or not.
                    Each of us will bear the consequences of our choice. Call it offensive, call it imaginary, whatever.
                    BTW, Why are you so rattled about what my God will do when you are so sure He doesn't exist?  Looks like you are unsure enough to get bent up over it. I do not believe in islam so allah does not bother me personally.

                  1. 59
                    (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I did ponder it, that's the reason why I responded. You have equated a choice of worshiping a god to that of making a choice to be a criminal. And, you stand by that?

                    What you are essentially alluding to is the fact that I am no more than a criminal in your mind, simply because I don't worship your god, is that correct?

                    If not, then we can make a clearer distinction in this choice by saying that I did not choose to be on the same bowling team as you instead? That would make your comparison far more relevant than that of a adding a criminal element, don't you think?

                     

                    You and I will both stand before Allah to bear the consequences, we shall both roast in Islamic hell together, if what you say is true about the spiritual realm. There is no denying it, Holly.

                    Do you play chess?



                    Ah, so you are an atheist, then. Notice how that is the common answer from most atheists about gods.

          4. Solnyshka profile image60
            Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            A boisterous AMEN, donnaisabella!!!  I, too, have made my solid choice to serve and proclaim the Name of Jesus Christ, unashamedly!  He INDEED will have the last Word!  And all on here who scoff, let them do it.  It's okay, because on that day EVERY knee will BOW and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus Christ IS LORD!!

            1. Cagsil profile image79
              Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You'll be dead before you ever see it happen. lol lol lol as will most of those who presently live now.

              Because, it's never going to happen. lol lol lol

              1. Solnyshka profile image60
                Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Your response shows how little you know scripture.  I might die before the return of the Lord, sure, but will be resurrected.  In fact, we all will be resurrected, to face final judgment and everyone, collectively, will behold Him and WILL BOW.  Some will be resurrected to be accepted into His kingdom while others will be resurrected to accept the punishment that they willfully chose by their disbelief.  Every eye will witness this.  But unlike you scoffers who poke fun of believers, we will not poke fun of you as you are cast into the destiny that you have chosen for yourselves....and in that destiny, Randy, a toaster will not be needed.  But I do hope and pray that something in this life will prompt you to seek Him.  I pray God tarries long enough for your eyes to be opened and your hearts softened, since it's not His desire (or mine) that anyone be without Him on that final day (though many will sadly be).

                1. Cagsil profile image79
                  Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh please, enough. You keep yapping about it as if you've been given insight. You base your faith on HOPE and nothing else. Give it a rest.

                2. Cagsil profile image79
                  Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  On a second thought, if you actually walked the path of your religion, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. So, ponder that thought.

                  1. Solnyshka profile image60
                    Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Cagsil, as it turns out, I am not "religious" and don't want to walk the path of mere "religion".  There are many "religions" out there.  I am not religious.  Jesus even spoke against the "religious" Pharisees and taught clearly that it's about having a relationship with Him as our personal God that He desires.  (But only a Christian will understand the difference between religion and a relationship with Christ, so you'll just have to scratch your head over that one.)

                3. getitrite profile image81
                  getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                  You have no idea how delusional this sounds, do you?  This is the rant of an individual who allows others to think for him.
                  And no matter how foolish these thoughts are, you still choose to believe them, because you are too fearful to use your own logic.


                  None of this foolishness is going to happen to non-believers, yet you go right on spouting this nonsense, with an air of absolute authority.  It would be laughable if it wasn't so psychologically disturbing.

                  Your fear of reality is shocking.

              2. donnaisabella profile image85
                donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No Cagsil, you are wrong, we will be resurrected to see that day. And oh what a wonderful and fearful day it will be!

            2. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I hope you received a toaster or something!

            3. 59
              (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Idle and empty threats of an invisible and undetectable super being zombie are childish and immature at best, notable only on a kindergarten playground.

            4. donnaisabella profile image85
              donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Amen!

    2. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
      Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      getitrite-i feel sorry for you if you think that yourself or mankind is nothing but maggots. in Psalms 8 David is asking God-
      What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than god and crowned him wiht glory and honor. you made him ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet; all flocks and herds, and beasts of the fields, the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas.
      he is questioning our worth as humans. But he has a relationship with god. He knows that even in his moment of doubts that god has ordained him and all of man to have dominion over all of his creations.


      I am sure that if we were maggots, we wouldn't have any control over anything. could you atleast agree with that logic?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is a big part of why I despise your religion.

        Because this is the sort of thinking that pumps millions of barrels of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico and no one gets held accountable.

        We are not special. We were not give dominion over. I am not special. I am no more important than a maggot. Probably less useful actually. I feel sorry for all of us that you think this way - because it is so against nature that we must destroy ourselves if we do not change this way of thinking.

        1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
          Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          actually...i did not destroy the gulf of mexico with oil. People who were working on it(or lack of work who knows) are the ones who messed that up. In my belief it is our worlds lack of belief in god and only belief in mankind that caused this to happen. Most people in this earth think their way is the best. So placed into action thinking because they put their hand on some big machine, they are automatically intellegent. well, thats where things messed up. A belief in god doesnt mess up anything except the minds of those that dont believe. but believe it or not mark..you are special and unconditionally loved. we all are wether some believe or not.

          1. donnaisabella profile image85
            donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Right ON!

      2. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        Nope!  I never said we were maggots.  I said we are as insignificant as maggots.  And you have no proof that we are special in the eyes of a creator.  It's strange, because I was indoctrinated just like you, but I can see this--in the end, religion is only wishful thinking. Bummer!

        Thanks for feeling sorry for me, but there is really no need, because I'm fine, but thanks anyway.  I'll just consider it patronizing.

        1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
          Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not patronizing. I promise. but lets say what you believe is true. if it is wishful thinking...we havent really lost anything by believing in a wish. if wishes were dream then it would be a wonderful dream.Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream..it was a wonderful dream. Most of its come true, and the country is still slowly gradually improving on that. Either way, i believe in god for a hope and a destination. M.L.K. destination for his dream was that all people would b treated equal..no segregation,or racism. The segregation has been taken care of, but the racism is still somewhat an issue in all walks of life. not just the color of skin but religious beliefs, and or gender. To have this wishful thinking, dream, or religious belief or what ever people want to call it, is an awesome thing to have. It brings hope for us who choose to believe. I only wish that more people would have a hope in their life. That's mostly what i feel sorry about for so many poeple. The world is hopeless and that is sad. very sad.sad

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            But what if this wishful thinking causes you to worship the wrong god?  What if the other religions are right?  You will go to their hell, whatever it is. 

            Perhaps your trying to tell others how great your beliefs are could cause them to make the wrong choice and result in them worshiping the wrong god.

            Making a bad choice for yourself is one thing, but influencing others to do so is another.  Just saying.

  14. Cagsil profile image79
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Hey Getitrite,

    I guess the question is what do you believe? God or Creator? As your statement leads one to read that you believe in God or a Creator. That is why I asked.

    1. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      I gave the believers definition of God in my statement, for argument sake.  It is by their own contradictions that the bible and all holy books and beliefs are absurds.

      As for me, I was raised by a Pentacostal minister. I gave my life to Christ at ten.  A year or two later, I began to question why no prayers were ever answered, or why God was never, ever seen.

      Logically, now this is my position:  there is no evidence to support the belief in a God or Creator.  Gods are fairytales, nothing more.

  15. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    getitrite said ...
    I gave the believers definition of God in my statement, for argument sake.  It is by their own contradictions that the bible and all holy books and beliefs are absurds.
    =================================
       I can say that I absolutely agree with you on this point.

       Now !!!!!  What can we do to find a workable "compromise" ?

    1. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Encourage people to find help.  Religion is a serious delusion.  It causes adults to behave as children, and think that it's perfectly acceptable.

      The fact that the title of this forum states:  :God WILL have the last say" is a true testament to the silly, childish nature of this delusion.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Just a matter of prospective I think.

           Just got a ph. call...  gotta go  back later.

  16. 0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago

    Nope, I just did lol

    1. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I"m always eager to help when I can ...

  17. 0
    SirDentposted 6 years ago

    God already had the last say.

    Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Just as a matter of interest Dent - what do you think you are achieving by posting threats such as this?

      Do you really not understand how this is guaranteed to cause ill will and conflict? Is that your goal?

    2. aka-dj profile image78
      aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Furthermore, Jesus said, on the cross, "it is finished"!
      The rest is up to each of us ! (our response to Him, I mean)

      It is VERY evident what those responses are (here on HP.)

      I applaud ALL posters for their stating that SSSSOOOOO clearly.

      Therefore they "will be without excuse".

      I love it !

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes - that is th impression we get dj.

        You love the idea that "they will be without excuse." and LOL "you will win" LOLOLOLOLOLOL

        My way or the highway. Odd that you do not understand why this will always be the source of conflict.

        But - that seem to be what you all want. Conflict and division. What a terrible belief system. No wonder none of you have any moral standards and have caused so much violence. sad

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You seem to take things the wrong way, on purpose or not. It is not my way. It is God's way.

          The source of conflict is the wickedness of man. A man who attacks another man attacks because it is what is in his heart.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I see - so you do not think you are provoking? And you are not responsible - it is all god - therefore you are blame free?

            You are the source of conflict, but prefer to not see that. You are without moral standards. Still - that is the christian way  - blame anyone but yourself and never ever take any personal responsibility. Terrible belief system. No wonder you cause so many wars. sad

            1. 0
              SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What does it meant to take responsibility?

              To realize that I have faults and confess them is taking responsibility.

              To say, "The devil made me do it!" is passing the buck.

              To say that God causes conflict is actually a true statement, but not true in the way you think it to be. The conflict is between the spirit and the flesh of a man. The fleshly man hates God but the spirit man wants God. They are constantly at war with one another.

              When the internal war in men come to the surface, conflict is then made outside of the man. The wickedness of man is what causes wars.

              Religion does not cause wars, men do.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Semantics avoid personal responsibility. No - confessing faults to an invisible super being in order to be forgiven for them is not accepting personal responsibility.

                But - nicely distracted from the point I made that you spouting scripture causes division and conflict.

                Very, very well done. wink

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I think I see now. If I quote from the Bible I am inviting someone like you to attack me. It is then my fault that you get so angry you want to kill me.

                  I get it now. Nice morals you have.

                  Of course you could always ignore it when I quote scripture, but that would make yo ulook bad in front of your atheist buddies. It must be hard to live with such a dilemma and have no one to help you with it.

                  Jesus loves you no matter what.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    There you go - all my fault.

                    You are not responsible in any way whatsoever. You were just telling me what god wants. lol

              2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                What of religious men?  Doesn't God tell them the right thing to do?  Or are they just reading his words wrong?  If they cannot understand his "message" how can you?

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                  I can only understand what God reveals to me. What I do not understand I leave alone. Many have overstepped their boundaries by preaching things when God tells them not to.

                  In the end, I can only speak for myself. What others do or don't do is irrelevant.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    And why should anyone believe your version of what God wants?  What credentials do you possess which would make others have any confidence in your ideas of what the Bible means?

            2. Solnyshka profile image60
              Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Mark, are you kidding??  I wonder if you even hear yourself.  We are not the ones poking fun, making blasphemous jokes and slamming people.  Whatever happened in your life that has caused you to be so bitter, it's not God's fault.  This chip you obviously have on your shoulder against God and His people only makes you bitter.  Really, you think someone has no morals just because they are Christian?  That's ridiculous!  And it just doesn't fly.  It sounds to me that you expect it to be YOUR way or the highway, since apparently anyone who disagrees with YOU must not have any morals.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I suppose calling someone a "Satan Whisperer" is not considered slamming!  But it's okay if you guys do the name calling, I suppose!

                And your last line is a hoot coming from someone who chides us for not seeing things YOUR WAY!  HAHAHA!  Hypocrites to the end!

                1. Solnyshka profile image60
                  Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Randy, show me where I have called anyone a "Satan Whisperer", please.  You can't because I have not done so.  I have not called anyone any names.  Mark is accusing every Christian on this hub for having no morals and calling us violent simply on the basis that we are Christian, which is nothing short of prejudice and ignorance.  That's no different than seeing someone from the Middle East and automatically assuming they are a terrorist, no matter how peaceable and kind they might be.         

                  As aka-dj very clearly pointed out, it's not OUR way.  We are merely quoting what is stated in the Bible.  It's your choice and your right to not believe it.  So, what's wrong with us also having the choice to embrace it?  Hypocrites are those who preach one thing and then go do the opposite.  I am not one of those. You know nothing about me or the journey I was on that led me to my beliefs, nor do I know whatever journey led you to your disbelief.  But it's possible to be firm and passionate in our stances while staying respectful and civil.  I wouldn't dare tell any of you, even in your disbelief, that you are all violent and have no morals whatsoever.  It's just absurd.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No, you didn't call me a Satan Whisperer.  But your fellow religious posters call non believers names frequently.  Like you, I had rather discuss things by asking and answering questions to try and understand the other persons viewpoints. 

                    Aquasilver and Dent get angry and call names when they have no answers for commonsense questions.  I respond in a quasi serious manner because of this.  Read Aquasilver's previous post to me and you will see what I mean. 

                    I suppose I am preordained by your god to be doomed simply because I trust my life to using common sense, study and especially logic to make important decisions about everything in this world. 

                    If I am wrong, then so be it, I cannot force myself to believe your god is so terrible as to allow such pain, suffering, murder, and greed when he already knows the outcome.

                    "But you have a choice" some may say.  But your god already knew my choice before he created the universe.  The die is cast.  Why go through the routine?  Is your god really that bored?

                2. aguasilver profile image88
                  aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Calling someone a Satan Whisperer is simply explaining to my brothers and sisters what motivates you guys, you may be unaware of  who your master is, but we are not.

                  1. getitrite profile image81
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                    You are extremely offensive.  We use deductive critical thinking to try to discern what is the truth, yet you are sure it is an imaginary being called Satan controlling our minds.

                    This is madness, and an extreme contempt for intelligence. 
                    It is worthless to debate with you, because you are firmly in the grips of your delusion.  MY GOD!

                  2. Cagsil profile image79
                    Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    lol lol lol

                  3. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No Aquasilver,  Calling me a Satan Whisperer is just an act of childishness on your part.  But is doesn't bother me to be called names by believers because this is all the power they have.  There's absolutely nothing you can show to prove your god exists.  Or Satan either, for that matter.

                    So all you can do is quote the novel and predict dire consequences for those who dare to think different from you.  Go practice your self hypnosis, it's almost Sunday!

              2. Milla Mahno profile image58
                Milla Mahnoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                LOL Doncha realize you are looking in the mirror? lol

              3. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No - I am not kidding. And I suspect you do not even realize what you have just called me. LOL that you think I am speaking to god hen I am speaking to you.

                I am speaking to you. God does not exist. Love how you turn that into me being bitter and having a chip on my shoulder against god. His people? Different matter if you are claiming to be speaking for Him. Yes - look at your behavior - attacking me for not agreeing with you.

                You have no morals. Look at this fight you are causing. Why?

                Mirror mirror on the wall. Who started the fight?

                1. Solnyshka profile image60
                  Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Prejudice is such a crippling disease.  Everyone on this hub can clearly read and see that I have not called you any names.  Pointing out your bitterness is not name-calling, it's making an observation....and an obvious one, at that.  Do you realize that you are the only one on here among nonbelievers who has resorted to making a blanket statement to literally every Christian here that they are without any morals, simply for being Christian?  Do you treat only Christians this way, or everyone?  Nevertheless, God loves you, Mark, despite your obvious hatred of Him and those who love Him.  I'll still be praying for you, and appreciate you showing me how to pray for you more specifically.  Peace to you!

                  1. Solnyshka profile image60
                    Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, and Mark, the "fight" was started by the serpent in the Garden of Eden, not me, not God, and not Christians.  Go back and read about it.  And this "fight" that you are so determined to keep calling this hub to be also wasn't started by me.  As I recall, you commented on this hub days before I ever knew it existed.  The whole point it that is doesn't have to be and shouldn't be a "fight" at all.  It can be an intellectual debate, with reason, maturity and respect.  Can you handle that?

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image59
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    God does not exist. I am not speaking to this invisible person. I am speaking to you. I don't care if you pray for me. As long as that makes you feel better that is fine with me.

                    Negating everything I say by telling me I hate something that does not exist is not really soothing the rift though. See how that works? wink

                    You have no morals. None.

  18. aka-dj profile image78
    aka-djposted 6 years ago

    @ Mark
    I agree with SD. It's NOT my way or his way.
    It's His way!
    Besides, if you just did it His way, there would be less conflict! We wouldn't be disagreeing with you so much (and vice-versa).

    BTW I have NEVER caused violence in my life. (Just for the record!)

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      LOL _ See above. If I just did it the way you tell me? LOLOLOLO

      This is the truth here dj and Dent.

      It is not your way - it is God's way.
      You are just the messenger
      You accept no personal responsibility
      Any conflict comes from me not doing what you tell me is god's way
      Therefore any conflict is my fault

      Really - a terrible belief system that produces people who never accept responsibility for their own actions.

      And then - of course - you blame the "liberals" lefties" "atheists" or whatever for the down fall of society.

      Terrible. You have no moral standards. sad

      1. aka-dj profile image78
        aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How did I tell you to do anything?

        You obviously need help. You're having trouble figuring it out.
        It seems you got it wrong the last time you tried, now your mad at the whole world(of believers).

        I guess you'll be one of the happiest people on earth after the rapture. LOLOLOL
        Woo-Hoo!! Yippee, NO MORE (Religionists) believers.




        Please accept my humble apology for the sarcastic form of humor big_smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I need help? Oh - of course yes - I see - any conflict is absolutely my fault and not yours.

          OK - yes - we just went over that.

          You tell me god's word
          It is god's word not yours
          Any conflict comes from me not doing what you tell me is god's word
          Therefore any conflict caused is absolutely my fault


          Got it. My fault. You didn't tell me anything - you just told me what god said. Right. OK lol Oh - and I am angry because I disagree with you (sorry - god, because it is god's word - not yours). You aren't angry - you are merely passing on the message and are not responsible for anything. Ever.

          No moral standards. None. Shame. sad

          1. aka-dj profile image78
            aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think you have a scratch in your record! lol

            It keeps skipping back to the "same-ol, same-ol"!

            1. Mark Knowles profile image59
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yes - I imagined you would not be able to understand. Just remember - it is all my fault for not accepting god's word that you tell me. wink  You are not responsible.

              1. aka-dj profile image78
                aka-djposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You already acknowledged that I follow a 2000 year old book. (BTW, you are wrong on that tecnicality, but no matter). SSSOOO, it's not I that tell you, it's THE BOOK! (Sorry it got a bit deep for a moment). hmm

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes - I know - you are not responsible. It is all THE BOOK. You are just the messenger. I get it.

                  Yes - no responsibility for you. I understand.

              2. 0
                SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                It is your fault that you reject the Word that God told you.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes - I know. It is all my fault and you are in no way responsible. Yes - I understand. You are just telling me what the book says and any conflicts are mine.

                  I get it.

                  You are not responsible for any conflicts caused. It is all my fault.

                  1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
                    Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    see christians-i am a christian. i love god. but can u not see the point behind the non believers. they choose not to believe because there are so many christians that tell them... its all your fault...if you do it this way there will be no conflict...or judgements like...you have a scratch in your record. how can we say that we are representing christ with remarks like that. I have to say.. God does represent love, but we as christians have totally failed. it is our fault people choose not to believe. It is our fault non believers have negative feelings toward christianity. we have become too complacent in doing what Gods word tells us to do (no matter how crazy non believers thinks that sounds) we fail to live our lives as an example of what Jesus life was. Therefore, because we push our beliefs instead of present them as our beliefs as a personal choice instead of demanding nonbelievers to believe, then persecute them if they don't. this is why it is our fault totally that people are dying without a hope, a love, and god. It IS our fault. not theirs.

                2. 59
                  (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  My dear SirDent, if the Bible, or any other holy book were left entirely on their own and no one read them, there would be no reason for fault of anyone.  smile

                  1. 0
                    SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    If every bible in the world was destroyed, God's Word will be there speaking to you.

            2. getitrite profile image81
              getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



              It is because your delusion causes an argument to become circular.  It is believers who are causing the circular argument, but you don't have the capacity to see it.  Psychology is fascinating.

              http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss109/atheistdave/break-the-cycle.jpg

              1. pisean282311 profile image57
                pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                lol

              2. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
                Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                This argument or debate is going both directions. not just one direction.smile

                1. donnaisabella profile image85
                  donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Celina my dear sister. I do agree with you that we are called to love not hate. Encourage not berate. We are called to be champions of good not evil just like our Lord Jesus Christ.

                  However, Proverbs 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out.

                  We have to be discerning in the way we deal with all kinds of spirits. While here in the forums speaking about the love of God and sharing our faith, we are reaching out to the hearts and seeking the souls of many. It is not necessarily the man of woman you see writing on here who stands to lose or win. The spirit of the enemy is present full force and to tell you the truth 'he' will deceive even the most elect and use the rhetoric that you are using to side with what you think you have seen or heard on hear.

                  When Paul in Ephesians says Put on the full armor, he also admonishes us to understand who the real enemy is, not the flesh and blood standing before me. When Jesus rebuked Peter, He said,MT 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

                  That would be considered brutish and judgmental. But, we know that God did not mean that Peter was Satan. Aquasilver may have used some strong words to emphasize his sentiments. If you read what he had been saying before you would realize that he was trying to tell 'Q', that we do not hate him in several different ways. And that is what is true. Eventually we all learn that there are different ways of handling different situations, but love does not always mean that we do not tell people the truth. It is true, the Bible says that all workers of evil are doomed to an eternal hell and that includes you and me if we were not abiding in the faith.

                  God has not used any soft words so he could win people to Himself.   He teaches that the wise see trouble coming and they avoid it but the foolish go on and face the consequences. We need to be truthful. Hell is real. When we minister, we share God's love and desire to keep people from damnation. If they are not told, how will they know there is such a thing as a hell.

                  Believe me, people have different temperaments, some need to know that they will be punished and that is enough to help them get on the right path. Others are not fearful, threats of hell will just make them more stubborn (but that does not take away hell), when we minister to these, they need information, they need to understand that what we are saying is credible, the need to be convinced in other ways. That is the role of the Holy Spirit who knows how to reach out to people. To avoid talking about hell, judging between right and wrong is to preach a half baked gospel. It will not please God. The Bible did not say that is how we are to preach.

                  We have to be wise and discerning. There are beautiful Christians in this forum who truly love God. But, they are all human beings. We should all let God use us as vessels, it is not by might or by power but by the spirit of the Lord. If your brother or sister needs correcting, say it to 'them'. Let us not have our faith and the gospel we preach be watered down by what the enemy demands. The devil has no right to demand anything - we should know that we are at war.

                  BY the way I realize you just joined hub pages 2 weeks ago. Welcome! Check out my other forums and familiarize yourself with what has been happening on here, pray and let God guide you as you go. Do not take anything on here by sight value.....it is deeper. I love you.

                  1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
                    Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you. This was very honest of you. You pointed out a couple things that i wasnt thinking about. And yes, the whole gospel does need to be taught, not watered down. I dont like feeling like i am judgemental really but to let gods word be the judge is the best. so if i can back it up with the word of god and truth, then thats what god requires right? and thats what needs to be done. I  believe we shoud tell people about heaven AND hell. like you said. Jesus did say that his people parish for lack of kjnowledge. But what i was referring to was the Hell Fire and Damnation part that usually either causes fear about the whole spiritual thing or hatred and resentment towards christians. I believe the expressions of Gods love can open the door to so many people's lives. they will want to know what it is that makes us happy, full of light, and so on. That will in turn present the opportunity to teach them about heaven and hell, the love of god and everytng else god has to offer. but thank you so much for bringing that to my attention. hope to talk with ya soon luv ya too sister. god bless you.

  19. aka-dj profile image78
    aka-djposted 6 years ago

    The prosecution rests??

  20. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    Many of those who do not believe in G-d, are drawn to a belief in Aliens. But G-d and Aliens have about the same level of plausibility. There are signs that the concept exists but no proof.


    Some are now saying Jesus is an alien. This is myth transitioning from the "strange islands" of gods and goddesses to "strange planets" because we have debunked the idea that there are fantasy islands on earth where the laws of physics do not apply.

    I've seen UFOs but also know that the only reason they are UFOs is because I have no idea what that flashing zipping cigar shaped thing is. So it could be a Burning George Bush project. I've seen so many accounts on paper and videos that my conclusion is this: darn it IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

    Like Biblical Stories, alien stories have the same weight and level of absurdity. It seems our myths are pushing us to aspire to discover the plausibility of living outside our planet. That's where human consciousness is headed, transcending our dependence on earth. On the one hand, there are also myths that urge us to return to it.

    1. 59
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not really. It is the lack of critical thinking skills that haven't developed or were possibly crushed to a pulp in the mind of the believer, hence it is the believers who are drawn to belief in visiting aliens, not the other way round.

  21. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    you cannot topple myth, you can only change its face. goodluck guys. chase those rainbows... or know what they are.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The myths themselves are no problem.  The problem lies with those who believe them and use them to control others.  These people are the ones I wish to topple.

      1. donnaisabella profile image85
        donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And how many have you toppled so far? Greek mythology is called mythology. Christianity is not. Hey, you are taking a task too big for you....it is like declaring a war against God Himself. Whether or not you believe He exists, you will one day join the many that have died trying (if Christ does not return any time soon) to do so. Thousands of years and they are yet to triumph, they always end up being toppled no matter how mighty they become! People, believe ME, God WILL have the last say.

        On that last and final day, do not say, I did not warn you. I have and so have many others. In any case, I do not think all those who confess to be atheists on here will die atheists, I know that a number of them will meet Christ at some Cross Road, whether they think so now or not. That comforts me and that is why, we do not just talk to you, WE pray for you too! Now, you can not stop me praying. I do it and I do not need your permission either!

        1. Solnyshka profile image60
          Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          donnaisabella, you rock, sister!!  :-)  I join you in praying in the Spirit over these unbelievers.  God loves them all and wants their eyes opened.  I pray it will be so!

  22. 0
    tiger_lyndonposted 6 years ago

    millions of LOLs from people who do not understand the language of the bible...But we must not be
    surprised to find people like
    them who do not only doubt
    but, are denying the truth
    written in the Holy Book.
    Even the knowledge and understanding
    of the mysteries in the Bible is not
    attainable by human efforts but, is given
    by God.
    Because no human intelligence can
    fathom the deep things of God, there are
    those like these people that pervert or
    wrestle the word of God.
    No wonder, people like them are trying
    all possible nonsense to malign the Bible
    and its source: God Almighty.
    The Bible is a sealed book; and can only
    be understood by divine intervention.

    1. 59
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Gosh, good thing there aren't any humans trying to tell us how the word of their god is the ultimate truth, especially when human intelligence cannot fathom the word of their god.

      1. Cagsil profile image79
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol lol lol lol
        lol lol lol lol lol
        lol lol lol lol lol
        lol lol lol lol lol

  23. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 6 years ago

    I believe God has the first and last say ...but there  seems to be an awful of people who think they are God...lol

  24. watchya profile image59
    watchyaposted 6 years ago

    God always has the last word. the writers of the Bible took care of that . LOL

  25. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    Q,
       Somethings never change - you will twist words and run circles. Slow down and think.
     
       Simple concept = Choices (of any kind) bring consequences.

    Whatever reference I would have made you would have done the same thing. We all know it. Yes I do think, and yes the bowling team would have been a better choice - can you forgive my chemo brain or would you like to chew on that a while?
    I do not believe in allah - can't you read? I am not an athiest either. I stated I am a christian.
    Believe what you want - I am just fine with my beliefs.

    1. 59
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, you too have made a choice that you're "just fine" with and could care less about Allah putting you in Islamic hell to roast for an eternity. That is, if Christianity is wrong and Islam is right. Of course, there are at least 1.5 billion people who agree with me that Allah will send you to Islamic hell.

      I'm glad you're fine with that, Holly. smile

  26. Enlydia Listener profile image59
    Enlydia Listenerposted 6 years ago

    Hi you all...I don't have the time or patience to read all the arguments...but just wanted to mention a theory (scientific)that I read yesterday about the universe...it is called the Alpha and Omega theory....supposedly the universe is expanding outward...and when it expands as far as it supposed to (?) it will go to Zero...which is not the absence of everything...but the containment of EVERYTHING....seems like even the scientists can't quite avoid God....(at least in using the terms Alpha and Omega)

    1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
      Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Awesome!! I like that statement...The containment of everything. i went online and read something about this theory. Just to think of how big the universe and all that god created actually is, its awesomely huge! To think that we cant even measure the distance or depth of the universe. It  is infinately unimaginable. Enlydia, would it be right to say that Gods existence IS the containment of everything?

  27. Cagsil profile image79
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Having fun yet Randy? smile lol

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Dealing with "God Yellers" is always fun, Cags.  Their mindset is hilarious.  A few hundred years ago they would have burned us at the stake because of our disbelief in their imaginary deity.

      Scary folk!

      1. Cagsil profile image79
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I find it funny. I have no belief on the matter either way. To me, what it is is something know. No non-belief or disbelief. The topic isn't of grave importance to assign a belief to it.

        The delusion created is however my belief says it's lunacy and completely foolish.

        I know for a fact- religion is killing people, it is the underlying cause for much that ails the world. It can be seen in the actions of those who choose to claim themselves righteous.

        I also know for a fact- the 'god' concept is in the minds of some 4 billion people. Thus, making the situation more dangerous.

        Just those facts alone, are enough to scare someone into action, before the civilization does something really stupid, like launch a nuclear weapon somewhere.

        I am glad to see you are enjoying yourself. That's good. smile

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I feel the same Cags!  Religion is the same as politics in some ways.  It is also a political tool used to sway opinion on a wide variety of matters. 

          Faux News uses it to aid its conservative agenda and it works quite well on those without the means to make up their own minds.  Nothing new, of course!

          I really would not care if people worshiped and old shoe as long as they didn't expect me or others to do the same.  But they need assurance they are not wasting their time, so they want others to have the same delusions or to look up to them for their power to speak for a god!  This is often because of a lack of self esteem!  But you knew this already!

          1. Cagsil profile image79
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol cool lol lol

      2. donnaisabella profile image85
        donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh Randy, you will not escape the final stake if you God does not open your heart to receive him because of your hardness of heart! This stake will be worse than the one that could end. That is another subject altogether. But you will not escape your reward for the 'good' words you are spewing here. Though, God is not vindictive He will forget all this the day you come to Him and say 'Yes, Lord.' That is our God full of mercy and compassion.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well, I believe my god will not like how you act here on earth.  You will come back to be born again as inferior once more.  Yes that's right, you will be reborn as a woman again!  LOL!

          Check out planetsmilies.net for my green snake smilie.  You see how it is, you comment on my smilie, I comment on your head scarf.  Nothing pertinent in that exchange. Never is when personal attacks are used in debating subjects.  And a "stake" for me?  What sort of stake are you threatening me with using your god's blessing?

          1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
            Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            God gives blessings and with them adds no sorrow to it. If it is a good thing...blessing. bad thing...curse. but thats not to say that that bad thing couldn't be a blessing in disguise either. things can be turned around for the good.  I'm not refering to the "stake" either.

      3. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
        Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        randy, hahaha. thats funny. arent you glad those days are over. its good thing most christians arent witch hunters huh?

        1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
          Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          not just witch hunters but not as evil and misguided as before considering most christians don't kill people for their disbelief. Actually in other countries it is christians that are being killed just for their belief.. because the other countries would prefer a rock or a little jade fat man named buddah.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          But they still are, Celina!  They just can't stone them, drown them, or burn them here in the U.S. anymore.  The people who did this used your bible and god to judge those poor folks as witches, just as you do to those who do not agree with your ideas of what or who god is. 

          And you twice avoided my questions about choosing the wrong god.  Want to make it three times?

          1. Cagsil profile image79
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Still having fun I see Randy. lol

            How are you this fine evening/morning, depending on location. lol

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Went to bed and missed your post, Cags!  Yep, still having fun!

          2. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
            Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            im sorry randy,but i dont believe i have made any judgements against you or anyone else on here for not believing in my god. i am just telling WHAT it is that i do believe. its achoice for you if you believe or not. i dont dislike someone or turn them away because of their beliefs. some of my friends are athiests.

            what questions did you ask me about choosing the wrong god. I thought those were directed to someone else. so i guess yes. lets make it a 3rd time and next time i am in the forum i will do my best to answer your question. ok

  28. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    Mark,
      The "debates" end up being demands of proof, insults and bullying. How many times have you called religious people delussional and unable to think for themselves? How many times do you call "kristians" stupid and call God names? Can you please direct me to a thread where you have civilly debated with a christian? I have been reading old threads in hopes to find one.
      My point being that as long as a christians post in threads of interests to christians, you and other nonbelievers will be less than civil. As long as christians hold to their beliefs, you will insult and demean. As long as christians refuse to bend to your beliefs, you will bully and be obnoxious. You have been like that with me at every turn, even telling me you would like it to be illegal for me to have a Bible in my own home!
      No. You have no desire to debate civilly, no capacity to tolerate a differing point of view, and you seem attracted to every christian living thread on hp!
      Can you honestly deny this?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not at all. I find this disgusting and offensive - seriously - how is it possible to have a civil debate with this?


      You really think this is OK and it is all me?

    2. Solnyshka profile image60
      Solnyshkaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      h.a.borcich, you are absolutely right!  Mark, all it takes is for someone to utter the words "I am a Christian" and you are on them like a pit bull going straight for the jugular, just for the profession alone.  And you don't even answer people's direct questions or comment on their specific points.  You just repeat the same things over and over, saying "you have no morals"..."it's all my fault".  Really, do you think THIS is okay??  Some of us actually want to discuss things here.  You only want to attack and criticize.  And your comment to this will be no different than that because it's all you ever do.  You don't WANT a civil debate on the matter because you fully enjoy fighting.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Just not getting how this is open to a civil debate. Which pretty much proves you have no morals. Unless you can explain how this is open to a civil debate. What is there to discuss here:



        Take it back and say you did not mean it and you are wrong. Then we will talk. wink

  29. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    Mark,
      In it's simplest form, a debate is usually a civil discussion between two differing points of view. Each is allowed to express their view on whatever subject matter, they present arguments to back their stance, and conclude. Civilly.
      One position may alter their view based on the exchange, but whether or not the parties end up agreeing with each other, a debate can still be spirited and provacative. Unless it is in the religion forum on hp it seems.
      So you find her position offensive. Fine. Say it is offensive - you are entitled to believe anything you would like to. But to say she is intellectually unable to even debate with you because she believes in God only makes you look bad. Basically looks like you are bowing out of being civil simply because you are prejudiced against christians.
      Personally I have found some subjects offensive, but I can civilly debate my position. Other times I just watch the debate unfold and ponder - no crime in that if we are trying to learn something about people and life.
      If you really wanted to debate - to express points of views and understand another perspective - I would think you could muster the civility to do so. To seek out and insult any and everything christian only obscures your view point. Is that what you hope to do?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nicely avoiding the question I see. Yes - I am telling you how offensive I find your ridiculous religion. I am being as civil as I can be. Was I not clear?

      What is there to understand in this perspective exactly?



      Are you seeing some point of debate here that I am missing? I mean - what is a reasonable response to this? And I am being the aggressor in this case?

      GOD WILL HAVE THE LAST SAY is the title of this thread. You think this is a reasonable opening gambit to a civil discussion?

      Or - maybe - just maybe - This is an attack on unbelievers and not an attempt to have a reasonable debate or civil discussion?

      1. h.a.borcich profile image60
        h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        " I find this disgusting and offensive - seriously - how is it possible to have a civil debate with this?"

        I hit your question head on. I explained, offered personal tips to participate, etc. "So you find her position offensive. Fine. Say it is offensive - you are entitled to believe anything you would like to. But to say she is intellectually unable to even debate with you because she believes in God only makes you look bad. Basically looks like you are bowing out of being civil simply because you are prejudiced against christians."

        Now you finally admit the truth - you are too emotional about it to be civil. So yes, you are the one unable to debate. Maybe you should avoid threads you find so offensive.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I see you have no answered the question and are still defending this:



          Odd - I don't see you saying anything against this. Seriously - how can I have a rational discussion with this?

          All me huh?

          1. h.a.borcich profile image60
            h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Whatever subject would be up for debate wouldn't matter. My last few posts have been with you about debating. Why would I advocate one side or the other when we were discussing the "how" to debate?

  30. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    "Take it back and say you did not mean it and you are wrong. Then we will talk. "

      Does not equal debate, but it makes you transparent in objective.

      If I tell you to "take back what you said about my Jesus and say you did not mean it and you were wrong. Then we will talk."
    Would you?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sure. I take it back. Everything I have ever said. I was wrong. I know nothing. Nothing.

      Now what?

      1. h.a.borcich profile image60
        h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you want to express your point of view, maybe hear my point of view? Pic whatever topic you like. There is no reason we can't have a civil conversation unless we choose not to. When we are done, no onew has to be denigrated. Game?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image59
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Certainly. What do you want to talk about?

        2. donnaisabella profile image85
          donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I love your spirit my sister. Way to go!

  31. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    I am open with no preconceived topic. Seriously. You and I think differently and this could be enlightening.

  32. Mark Knowles profile image59
    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago

    All right. In the interest of not hijacking this thread totally - I have moved it here:

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/44260

  33. brotheryochanan profile image60
    brotheryochananposted 6 years ago

    God always has the last word or say.
    By his spirit not our might, remember?
    Its gods plan for our lives. Its gods best for us. Whatever desires we might have, we can toss them out the window because god is guiding and directing and he knows what is best for us.
    I can believe that god will always have the last say in every avenue. His ways are not our ways and his thoughts so very far above ours.
    Congrats! god keep up the god work  smile

    1. donnaisabella profile image85
      donnaisabellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Amen.

  34. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Yes He will. smile

  35. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Ironic.

    What "god" is that of yours that you call out to?

    1. getitrite profile image81
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Brenda,
      Of course, you understand sarcasm when you read it.  I think you are just playing the devil's advocate.  Good for you.  I'm sure the devil is pleased.

  36. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    God is Mount Everest? smile

    1. Celina Vanhoozer profile image60
      Celina Vanhoozerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      A question or conclusion? wink

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. smile

  37. 60
    chucksta8196posted 6 years ago

    interesting

  38. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

  39. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n195/amenjeff/Religious/Jesuspic.jpg

  40. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    No shortage of god botherers here today! Even offers to pray for those ill informed rabble who can't seem to grasp an invisible sky fairy! lol

    Try not to pray for us OK? It is an insult to tell people you have the power to "fix" them with prayer, especially since your sky fairy has never answered one prayer in 2,000 years! lol

    It is nice to be told that you are better than we are though! lol

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      They are so funny. And this one thinks that if you argue with them, you are "cursing god". They don't seem to understand that - they do not speak for a god. Weird.

      Watch this for a laugh:

      http://www.michaelshermer.com/2009/09/m … e-skeptic/

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That was a good laugh Mark, but way to sophisticated for the god botherers, they won't get this either! lol

  41. Mark Knowles profile image59
    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago

    I wonder if you are even aware of what you are saying.




    Clearly you state here that people who do not believe in god will go to hell. And at the same time claim not to have done so. This is the problem with your religion - it prevents you from understanding why this causes so much conflict.

    You believe I am going to burn in hell (or whatever version it is that you believe). Because I don't believe the nonsense you believe. And you think you are being "Christ-like" by saying this?

    And you think sending people to hell for not believing this nonsense is "love"?

    This threat of punishment and verbal attack on non-believers will always cause conflict. It always has done. It always will do.

    Sad. sad

  42. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    Knowles  said 
    You believe I am going to burn in hell (or whatever version it is that you believe). Because I don't believe the nonsense you believe. And you think you are being "Christ-like" by saying this?
    ======================================================

       Not intending to be offensive, tought I'm sure this will be seen that way...on both sides of the arguement. 

    (Whether she is right or wroing) She does believe that.  And she believes she would be helping you to "convert" you. 
       That's ..  "Kinda" like   .. having a friend in Junior high school   ...."who believes"  that if you do not finish high school and go to collage that, you will be dooming yourself to manual labor and poverty, a wife and six kids living on minimum wage.
       Would you argue with him; saying that he is wishing that upon you, just because he wants you to believe like he does?
       I know this isn't the same thing because ..??,,?,,?.  But from their prospective it is.
       
    Back to the original topic. 
    I think that us Believers should improve upon ourselves first.
    Create a product (in us) that everyone would want to have.

       If I had no desire for something in the first place? you couldn't talk me into buying it if you could not show me the finished product.  Make me want it when I see it in you.
    ....Where Is the BACON ...

       I think that if Christians could work among themselves, get this product off of the drawing board and out on the road there would be a 100 times as many converts.
        I happen to believe that the Lord gave us a great product to sell, but we redesigned it, and it has been on the drawing board ever since.  There may be a few great operating prototypes out there;  someplace.   But for the most part ... The current product that we see needs to be recalled to have the problems fixed.
       I'm not talking about all believers ...But; If I was "JUST"  a member in an organization?  I'd take a long hard honest look around the place and see if there was anything that I could do to improve our reputation. 
       
    I am NOT excluding Myself from this scenario.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. It is incredibly rude of her - I agree. I don't care what she believes. The simple fact is - that by sharing what she thinks I should be doing - she causes a fight.

      I wouldn't dream of telling a total stranger what to do with their life. Yet many Christians see that as their mission in life. Without having their own life sorted, if not deliberately breaking some of their own rules. Why would I take a random stranger's advice when I know it is based on a misunderstanding of a 2000 year old religious tome they have probably never read all the way through? Why would I listen to some like Brenda's opinion on homosexuality and morals when she clearly breaks some of the other rules by getting divorced?

      Quite apart from that - she is wrong, and so are you. If you had a decent product to sell - it would not have caused the conflicts it has, is, and will continue to do.

      No one actually follows the instructions. Look at donnaisabella. I quoted thois to her:

      "Agree with your adversary quickly, submitting even to wrong for the sake of peace" (Matt. 5:25; 1 Cor. 6:7)

      And she says that does not apply to her:



      LOL What a joke. lol

      And I assume you have never actually read the bible because it is pretty clear to me that it says "My way or the highway". And if you think that is a great product to sell I can only assume that you are - once again - defending your belief from an untenable position because that is far more important to you than anything else.

      Where is the BACON Jerami? If Christians had behaved christ-like for the last 2000 years - we would not even be having this conversation.

      My argument has always been that your product is broken and needs a recall. Now you seem to agree. But I don't see you recalling it - merely trying to sell it on the basis that it could be fixed if we tried hard enough. Really? 2000 years is not enough to say - "it is broke, let's try something else?"

      How nuts is that to keep on trying to get something running which has never run? Talk about blind faith. sad

    2. pisean282311 profile image57
      pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      @Jerami i disagree with you ..pardon me..but human is just another species and if god wanted to sell something ..he would have hard coded it in brain since birth..he wont have needed mortals to promote anything...now consider this..there are 67% people in the world who dont know much about bible and christ..does that mean that 67% would be burnt in hell?...thats mean as far as god is concerned..he didn't take classes and now wants to fail students??????...

      consider name of person who changed the lives of millions and who influenced two leaders in two other continents who in turned changed lives of millions..now what would happen to mahatma gandhi?..he didn't convert to christianity...what would happen to him?..

  43. gonzo62003 profile image60
    gonzo62003posted 6 years ago

    Hello earnestshub How is my aussie writer doing? Good to see your still around hope you had a super fathers day!
    Take care and God Bless -- please my friend continue to sharpen minds with your ways. You do have alot to offer.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Gonzo. smile Any fan mail in the forums is rare and delicious! lol
      I am going great so far, thanks for asking! Still trying to find new ways to explain car stuff to the natives. smile Thanks for the fathers day wishes. smile
      We celebrate it a bit later than you do.

      I'm not to sure about sharpening the minds though. I remember something my father taught me that has stood the test of time. 

      "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

      Religious knowledge by it's own rules require this blindness.

      1. Friendlyword profile image60
        Friendlywordposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you believe in Astrology? Do you believe the planets have a large influence on our behavior? It is a scientific fact. And I know there may be no intelligence behind the force or influence the planets have on us; I cant help but think the universal influence on us Might have some intelligent design we can not grasp with our tiny little minds. Maybe that's why there are so many people desparate to understand and cling to their beliefs because they can not accept the fact that we will never now the mind of God for sure.

        1. Beelzedad profile image61
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Astrology is just a form of entertainment. There is nothing scientific about it. The planets have no more influence over our behavior than green cheese on the moon. smile

  44. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    I take a more Jungian viewpoint.
    Our own minds hold the god concept as an archetype. It is driven by fear of the unknown and fear of death.

    part of a primitive part of our brain commonly called the "lizard" brain."
    Extensive scientific research has been done using a galvanic probe to change responses from this built in fight or flight response mechanism.

    That which is unknown does not in my opinion need reassignment to a sky fairy from a dodgy book! lol

 
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