The church has to be very careful on how to witness to a person living in homosexuality are you demonstating the love of GOD first or are you judging their sin? remember it is God's love that will draw the world we have to show his love and be lead on how and when to speak truth to a person that really doesn't understand what you are saying to them. let's talk about it.
Not long ago I personally struggled with this issue...
I met "Lee" (a man) online almost 2 years ago on a forum for a cancer we both were diagnosed with. We became friends quickly and emailed each other sharing tips on treatment survival, etc. We may have been on different continents but we had much in common.
He revealed to me that he was "married" to another man. I had always been open about my faith and he had harbored a preconcieved notion how I likely would respond. Admittedly I was stunned, but we remained friends much as we were before the revelation without further adressing his lifestyle.
As his cancer spread rapidly and ruthlessly, Lee decided to use assisted suicide to end his suffering. This really distressed me especially that the other issue we previously skirted was alive in the shadows. Time was short and I could not avoid it any longer and feel like a true friend.
In my final message to Lee I tried to tell him how I cared and thank him for being real with me on so many levels. Although I was distressed about his choices in lifestyle and suicide, I knew him as a dear friend who was suffering and dying. Lee confessed he believed in God while avoiding churches harsh judgement yet he was confident God would accept him. I told him to reach for Jesus and not let stupid people/christians get in his way to heaven.
Was it right? Was it wrong? I don't know. What I do know is that we all face our maker alone. Having a majority of people saying you did well or did wrong will not matter. What mattered to me was that Lee had the support to fall into the arms of Jesus. I can face my maker knowing I tried to love my friend from the heart.
That is so touching to me Oh my gosh God got the glory out of that friendship.
I will just say this first. I have never felt the impulse to kiss another man other that a father or brother, or son. And then they didn't get no tongue. Or that kind of attitude. But that is just me.
Where do you draw the line as to how much is OK for a man to love another man. Where do ya draw the line? Same thing can be said concerning a man and woman? Or two women.
What do you think that Solomans' 900 concubines and 400 wives were doing while waiting their turn with the king?????
I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it, But that is my line that was drawn by me! where should the line be drawn?? And not just this but in every issue?
There is no scripture about two women lyung toether as does a husband and a wife????
Been so long since anyone has seen the real line that was drawn that I don't think that anyone knows any longer where to draw it.
Just a thought.
There is a scripture read the book of romans that talks about woman engaging in homosexual acts together
Jerami, it's Romans 1:26 that makes it sound like with women it's even worse.
What were the concubines and wives doing? Without perhaps? Or having secret lovers on the side. Doesn't have to be anything else.
Men can totally love another man, a woman can totally love another woman - they're called best friends. Doesn't mean they have to have sex with them.
Two days, 7 hubs, same subject...
I hope God leads you to love yourself someday. I took a long time for me. But I'll Pray that Gods gives you the Grace and Humility you need to finally love yourself.
All Gods love to you.
<no self-promoting links>
RELATED TO WHAT?
Do you have soemthing to say on the subject of this forum?
already did say something a while ago - noticed your post and read your hub about 'why do black men leave'
What is all this 'witnessing'? If it's preaching, I wish that people would just learn to back off and not try and thrust their beliefs down other people's throats. Live and let live.
It is also incredibly patronising to say that someone who is gay does not understand the truth. I can't see how someone's sexual orientation is anyone's business but their own and I also don't see how a person's sexual orientation has anything to do with their religious beliefs or being accepted within a church. A truly Christian person accepts everybody with love, without judging them and without trying to change them.
Since everyone is born with their sexual orientation, and you Christians believe that God created all humans, how on earth can you regard homosexuality as a sin? Remember God doesn't make mistakes, so why would he create a bunch of humans that were inherently sinful? And why do you find gay people so threatening?????
Thank you for saying that. God Bless yuu.
Who says everyone is born with a sexual orientation? God did not create man to be with man. He created man and woman to be together that way. It is not accepted anywhere in the Bible for a man and a man or a woman and a woman tobe together sexually. If you are looking for justification for being homosexual you will not find it with God. He says it is a sin. That is it. End of story. Now does that mean we condemn homosexuals? NO! We are to love them like we love anyone God created. God created man and woman. Jesus loved all men and women and we are to be like Jesus. Jesus didn't hang out with the 12 apostles when they started hanging with them and forget about the rest of the world, He went to sinners everywhere. To say that homosexuality is an abomination is an absolute lie. But it is a sin and we are exptected to give up sin when we come to Christ. There are so many arguments about the Bible because people want it to read the way they want it to read. So many Churches now try to make it fit the beliefs of man but the truth is that if you are a Christian you know that every word of the Bible is God breathed. It is NOT written by man but through man. God put it in what He wants in it. Man did not decide that. God makes the rules we don't. But when we spend time in it we change. We become "a new creation" . We start seeing things God's way. Let me let you in on somehting. I am a nurse. I have watched people die. You know something? Dying people could care less about sex or sexual orientation. If it was so important in our lives why is it so unimportant when we are dying? We have more to think about than the moments of gratification we get from the sexual pleasures we encounter while on this earth, but Satan would have some of us believe it is all that is important, so much so, if you don't aspire to be homosexual at some point in your life the world is trying to convince you there is something wrong with you. Think about it. Am I sitting in judgment on anyone because I don't want them to focus their whole lives on something like sex when there is so much more at stake? Will you care about sex the day you or will you be thinking about something more important like, where do I go from here. That decision is made the second after you breath your last breath. It's too important to worry about political correctness.
Ah - another judgmental hypocrite looking for a fight. Wonderful. Let me make sure I have got this right:
The bible sez homos are sinners
You feel the need to tell them they are sinners
You think this is "sharing God's love"
You are shocked at the "unprovoked attacks" on God's Word by heathens, homosexuals, lefties and atheists
This is the problem with your ridiculous beliefs - they are guaranteed to cause a fight - and you don't care.
You have no morals. None.
"Truth"? So you are in posession of that eh? I've read a couple of your hubs Shipman and I'm wondering if you yourself have not been a victim of the same kind of "loving moralism" that you are now espousing? The kind that plays upon guilt and anxiety in the vulnerable.
I'm not gay but when I read threads like this I have it confirmed for me just how morally deficient and dangerous it is to have to refer to an archaic book in order to form an opinion about what is right and what is wrong.
Without referring to God or the Bible, can anyone here provide a credible argument why homosexuality is morally wrong?
Thank you for your comments however I dont dispute about the word of God which is the truth noone can change that.
I can see that you don't...or at least mostly you don't. ..because you wrote in another thread that some things in the Old Testament don't apply anymore. How do you judge that? You must use some sort of independent thinking in order to accept or discard biblical advice.
They are human. So by any person judging their actions, according to old school rules, means the love is not in them. Doesn't matter how anyone justifies their opinions as 'tough love' or 'rebuke' or 'sin', it is not correct. The TRUE witness anyone needs to see is the believer actually outwardly doing -its called the Testimony, not show-n-tell.
People are drawn to a bright light, a joyful celebration, but are nervous about a dim lit room chattering or a rainy alleyway with barely light at all.
In answer to your question...
Step 1: Read to yourself John 8:1-11
"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone."
Step 2 Read to yourself Matthew 7:1
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
Step 3 Consider and focus on all the acts, sexual and otherwise, that you currently engage in that are not in keeping with the strict interpretation of the Bible's laws.
Step 4: Stop fixating so much on homosexuality simple because it is taboo in our society. If homosexuals are 10% of the population, what about the other 90%? What about the heterosexuals that engage in sexual acts not in line with what the bible teaches (eg adultary, pre marital sex, sexual relations for non-procreation purposes). Give 'witness' to your heterosexual friends first, and then worry about the minority of people who are easy to obsess about just because you don't share the same tendencies as they do.
Thanks for some strong, rational, calm comments, Greek. I'm with you and Mark, somewayoutahere and a few others who are like-minded on this one.
It must be nothing more than shear insecurity to go around pointing fingers and decrying other's "sins". We must be so battered and bruised by the realization that we are so imperfect and fallable that as a last resort to turn off the continual dialog of inner self hatred, we "witness" to others about God's love for them in the form of manipulation, threat and hate. It's terribly twisted. Maybe zealotous believers are so tormented by their own insecurities that it makes them feel better to loudly proclaim their "beliefs" to drown out all their own inner trumoil, self hatred and denial. They have no idea where the off switch is, so being louder and more hateful is their obvious answer. I personally think so, because I'm one who has lived in that cycle and it's insanity and crazy-making.
If we could be secure enough with our own thoughts and our own relationship with who and what we are, there would be no reason or need to "witness" to anyone other than love.
I think just showing love, like you would to anyone else, is the key to all witnessing. You can witness without words, by showing love. Some people don't want to hear what you believe, but maybe in time, if you genuinely care about them, they would come to you, and ask what you believe and why. That would be an open door, but just the same as with anyone, in my opinion.
rshipman, you're a wonderful testimony for the Love of the Lord, as I've said before.
I've been reading some of your hubs; they're great!
...I think that each Christian will have his/her own method of witnessing via their relationship with the Lord and their abilities and their own situation in life, whether it be a family situation or whether they have the physical freedom to witness in-depth on the level of the sinner. Not only witnessing to the homosexual, but in many cases also being a witness to their children, grandchildren, and perhaps an advocate of the right way to mold the social and moral education of many innocent minds, to any of those who have (as is happening all over) the homosexual agenda blatantly shoved in front of several aspects of their innocent lives. Think about it. It's in our schools, it's shouted in the streets, it emanates from The White House in America, it's being perpetuated into our legal system.
There are homosexuals who don't understand, yes. But there are many who DO indeed understand and just don't give a whit.
I believe the church has to be careful what witness we show to impressionable children just as much as we should be careful in our witness to the person living in homosexuality. The Bible teaches us to Love the sinner, YES Amen! but also....(gulp) to hate the sin. Christians who have children or others under their guidance must protect and guide those.
I know you're more personally-knowledgeable about this particular subject than I am.
But I'm not without knowledge either. I know two people who are at opposite ends of the spectrum on their reaction to the Word of God. One is convicted by the Spirit for his sin, and therefore has returned to the Lord, praise God!
The other refuses to listen to his conscience and demands that his family fully accept his actions and condone them. He knows his family loves him and that God Loves him. Yet he refuses to be a part of either family (his, and God's) and says he will fight politically for the so-called "rights" of gays to be married to each other.
If his family fully accepted his lifestyle, he would be bringing his gay lover to his parents' house to sleep with him; he would be saying things in the presence of little ears that should not be said; he would be allowed to further his agenda into a home/family that believes in Godly actions as much as possible.
For which one is there hope??
But which one has a contrite spirit?
Which one is humble before God?
Which one is willing to fall in line with God's plan for him?
Certainly not the latter one. At least not at this time. He knows, as I said, that he is much-LOVED. But in his rebellion, he shuns those who truly would be able to help him. It would not help him if they condoned his actions.
Love contains rebuke. Does not the Lord say that as many as He Loves, he chastens and rebukes? I believe so.
There is a false definition of "unconditional love" that says we must accept and condone any ol' thing that someone does, else we're not "loving". Not so.
Unconditional Love is what the Lord gives us. But His judgement is contained within that Love.
John the Baptist preached Repentance.
Jesus preached Repentance.
The Apostles preached Repentance.
And that's what Christians should preach.
I'm interested in hearing if/when/how you were convicted by the Holy Spirit of your sins? I know I was, at a little church long ago, at an altar, where I heard the Word preached and felt the drawing of the Spirit (the Bible calls it "conviction"). Is that not how Jesus draws all men toward Him?===by His sacrifice and by His Spirit of conviction both.
Very well spoken I do agree with you on many things that you have said when dealing with a person who is totally rebelling against God you have to remember that they are spiritually blinded by the sin. I have been in both positions one of repentance and also one of rebellion. You have to pray and bind the person's mind to the mind of christ and the will of chirst so that that they can see clearly. One thing I can tell you is that the homosexual lifestyle is heavy bondage and you can be so blined by it that you cant see and really because it gratifies the flesh of the person they dont want to see. My niece is gay and isn't a christian she has brought her girlfriend to family gatherings at my sister's house no has said to her no you cant do that . but everyone treats both of them with respect but we are praying for her soul and her girlfriends. I do believe that you have to speak truth but remember to a person who doesn't know christ saying you're going to hell because of you lifestyle isn't the right way they are truely blinded by the sin. Someone has to pray for them that their eyes maybe opened to the truth. The same way that our eye were opened it wasn't when others wanted them to be.
BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!! SHUN ME! REBUKE ME! CHASTEN ME(WHATEVER THE HEILL THAT MEANS) As long as it means I don't have to hear your shtt, Thank God you and people like you want to shun people like me. All said I and people like me want to hurt children.
"If his family fully accepted his lifestyle, he would be bringing his gay lover to his parents' house to sleep with him; he would be saying things in the presence of little ears that should not be said; he would be allowed to further his agenda into a home/family that believes in Godly actions as much as possible."
With that commment, you proved again why I would rather be shunned by the likes of you and other CHRISTIANS who think like you. You talk about protecting children from us, while children are being raped tortured and killed by their Fathers, Mothers, Brothers, Sisters, and other RELATIVES.
So please shun me and all that other shtt you want to do to me. I would rather burn in every circle of hell than to spend one second here or in heaven with the likes of you and your other cult follows who would gladly dance in heaven with an axe murder if he said he was BORN AGAIN. I don't think a more disgusting group of people exist on this planet. Maybe Cannibles...but I wouldn't want to insult them.
Do you realize that alot of the Homosexual men you are asking people to murder; have children? Do you know how many men have been takin from their children because of your hate speech?
You know, I didn't have to worry about what to say. I wouldn't have ever done it probably, didn't even want to be around "those kinds of people" - but God had other ideas. Only time in my life I've seen visions and been given messages for someone.
Yes, witness carefully and if YOU do everything right, then YOU will be able to convince these homosexuals that YOU know what is right because YOU have a belief system that is complicated and contradictory and has been rewritten, edited and revised many times over thousands of years by lots of different humans with agendas etc., not to mention translated from one language to another (a famously horrendous destruction of meaning is lost in this fashion even with one author pieces and with that author helping), but that's okay because YOU know what is right and YOU have the answer in your old book that helps YOU fix them because YOU know that they are the ones that don't understand and need YOU to save them. Thank God for YOU.
you know, i'm compelled to reply to this post. my sister is married to a woman - been together happily for 30 years. I stood up for my sister at her wedding. And you know, it was the nicest one I have ever been to - they are truly in love. For some reason people speak about gay and lesbians only in terms of what they may or may not do in bed - as we all know there is much more to a relationship - but for some reason the love for each other, friendship, etc. gets lost. Too bad for that. So you sinners above really need to take a look in the mirror and stop throwing stones from your glass houses - you're the sinner just by frowning upon anyone who has different beliefs. It's people like you that would bring harm to my sister. All my life I have worried for her safety because of people that skew their faith and interpret the bible or whatever you read to suit the situation. I get tired of hearing people openly being prejudiced against others. Hope you find the time to repent for openly showing prejudism upon God's children - you aren't the only ones that are God's children. You are no different from the way other extremist religious fundamentalists skew their interpretation of scriptures or other readings, for example, those that consider women to be worthless.
I guess in a way I'm contradicting myself - believe what you must - as I do.
Too bad for you when one of your family members says 'hey I'm gay' - I guess you'll have to really question your faith then or I guess you just turn your back on another one of God's children. Because you know what, someone in your immediate or larger family is gay!
Had to rant - because you just picked on my family and that just rubs me the wrong way! today in particular.....
I sure hope you did not get the idea I would harm anyone for being a homosexual. I can be honest that I do not understand the components of being gay, and that I am apprehensive. I have worked with gay people, been friends and neighbors with gay people, and there are a few in my family as well. If you think I was throwing a stone - you are mistaken. I was sharing how I struggled as a christian to help my gay friend compassionately.
I'm ranting in general - just sticking up for my sister. she's my sister. and so when I hear statements like 'those people' 'sinners' etc. or whatever..I struggle with it...and usually shut up about it. but I do get tired of gay/lesbians being targets - we are all just people. And, I'm not referring to your posts in particular, but there are people that will do and do harm to gays/lesbians - just because...harm is not just physical either.
I don't believe my sister is a sinner; I don't believe she needs to find the truth; I don't believe she needs to be saved; she's a beautiful, strong person who happens to love a woman.
don't want to rant anymore - just hit a nerve today - I worry about how some people will and do treat her - and unfortunately it will never go away.
I understand how you feel but any person no matter who they are a drug dealer, robber murder who hasn't accept chirst in their lives needs salvation not just the homosexual.
Ouch! That hurts! Just your words! i don't believe my sister needs salvation; I don't believe she's a sinner; she accepted God into her life the day she was born; she has accepted all of the sacraments except the final one. If she is in your belief system - then I guess I am too.
and you know RS I have a really tough time reading the word homosexual in the same sentence as murderer, etc.
And btw my sister wasn't born again - has always had a relationship with God; she didn't just discover God because she went through tough times in life - the belief has been there through the good and the bad (and for many generations before her).
So what do we do - agree to disagree I guess? Too bad we are referring to the same God.
it's too bad you may have thought of yourself as a sinner because you 'were' lesbian for 10 years. it must be tough to think that you 'may regret' part of your life or that you sinned for being you..........
Peace to you Rshipman.....
And you do not care who you hurt and how much conflict is caused by sharing your personal interpretation with people whom you judge to be sinners.
Except for the things that don't apply anymore...
Ah - Dent has an explanation for this. Using "scripture to interpret scripture," any seeming contradiction is easily dismissed by using whichever is the preferred passage top over ride anything you wish.
You can also - if you are feeling adventurous - claim knowledge of certain archaic languages that you may then use to offer almost any interpretation you choose.
Wonderful - this never changing word of god.
RS - it's too bad but your new thread "Peace" disappeared....nothing wrong with the truth...
can u elaborate of salvation and acceptance of christ?
That is what I was kinda getting at. You said it best.
I caught my mom in a judgmental thingie where she was criticizing one of her daughter in-laws but applauding her daughter for having the same trait. Mom said, "Well she is my daughter" "Nobody does one of my children wrong".
God has gotta feel the same way. Mom was condemning one of Gods children. We gotta be more careful than we have been being.
Someway, it doesn't mean you have to turn your back on anyone. Just like you don't have to turn your back on someone who's a drug addict.
My post is above - I'm ranting in general not necessarily at any one particular comment - the subject gets pretty tiresome and as you know can go places that are hurtful.
'just like you don't have to turn your back on someone who's a drug addict'? comment....
If someone you care about is making choices that you see as less than good for them, you still don't turn your back on them. I suppose you're taking exception to comparing homosexuality with drug addiction, I didn't even think of that at first.
I DO see it as a sign that something went wrong but I can also imagine a world where sex is pretty much the only thing men and women would get together for. Men and women often don't work out as complementary.
The thing that I feel the worst about is those who are born physically one way but mentally another, where it's obvious that something did developmentally go wrong.
My sister's girlfriend is the one God sent me to and it had nothing to do with condemning her; it was all about God loving her. (It had nothing to do with her being a lesbian either, that was probably for my sake.)
i'm done with my rants. And will try my hardest to avoid the topic - because it obviously gets me riled - that's my problem though.
i didn't understand why you commented about 'turning your back on a drug addict' - so was just asking for clarification.
I witness to them the same as I do anyone else. Whatever sin/s they are bound by makes no real difference to me.
I didn't say anything about Christians shunning anyone. I said a certain homosexual person that I know shuns his family!
Friendlyword, I haven't seen any friendly words from you at all tonight. Maybe you could use a rest?
By the way, your words are.....very hateful and aggressive and I personally think you should shut up if all you can do is rant and attack people personally, including me and any other born-again Christians. But I suppose you'll just declare that you have the right to attack people because you're whining about being pro-homosexual. It does seem to work quite often around here.
DON'T RUN NOW!
YOUR WORDS BRENDA:
“If his family fully accepted his lifestyle, he would be bringing his gay lover to his parents' house to sleep with him; he would be saying things in the presence of little ears that should not be said”
“Love contains rebuke. Does not the Lord say that as many as He Loves, he chastens and rebukes? I believe so.”
I'm not pro-homosexual.
I AM A HOMOSEUAL THAT YOU ACCUSED OF TRYING TO HURT CHILDREN.
Don't act like the little women being attacked. You said some very evil things and I called you on them. So you're right about me being aggresive or hateful or any other BS term you want to use. You crossed the line tonight, so I'm going there with you. You went way over the top accusing gay people of hurting children, when most of the people that hurt children are cult followers like you. Don't try to pull back and play innocent victim. You're comments were evil and mean spirited and Gods not in a person like that!
PS. Who needs a rest here? The amount of hate you carry around must be very tiring. Put it down.
Like I said, you must need to relax or something. You're behaving very delusionally, saying things that aren't true, attacking people for talking of things they have personal knowledge of, taking things personally when they were about someone else, all that.
Sorry, but I'm done for tonight. Maybe tomorrow you'll come to your sense a little. Or not. Whatever.
Tomorrow I'll be right here looking for you and any cultist who thinks you can condemn us with impunity. Not gonna happen as long as the Good Lord breaths life in me.(I just said that last comment so I could imagine the veins popping out the sides of your head)
You see unlike people that want you to TOLERATE them; I am a gay man with the scars and broken bones that say to the world I'm not goin for it. I hate you back. And I'm not going to put up with your hate wrapped up in your flag waving, Bible thupping disguise.
Get your rest...I'll see you tomorrow.
i've read what you've all said with interest. i would never attack your belief system or your right to believe as you do, despite being one of the sinners the majority of you are speaking out against.
i only have one thing to add to your conversation.
what is a "gay agenda"? when people say this i wonder what it means to them. when others have described what they mean when they use the term all i hear them saying is that they would prefer that gay people not have equal rights under the law.
i do not want to interfere with anyone's religious or spiritual beliefs. that is not my right. it's not anyone's right. i'm not asking for equal rights with regard to anyone's religion or philosophy.
i want equal rights under the law.
i want the right to hold a job without being discriminated against. it is legal, in 38 states, to fire me merely because i am a lesbian.
i want equal dignity as a human being.
i want the right to walk down the street without being harassed or threatened by someone who is offended by my very existence.
i want people to stop equating homosexuality with pedophilia. homosexuality does not equal the desire to have sex with children. pedophilia does not limit itself to heterosexuals to be sure, but homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.
i want people to stop their children from harassing and bullying queer children in the school system. everyone has the right to attend school without regard to their personal lives.
i want people to stop assuming that homosexuality means they arent safe in a bathroom, gym or locker room. dont flatter yourself. i have better things to do than check you out there or anywhere else.
mostly, i want people to stop assuming that every misbehaving queer asshat they see or meet is a representation of homosexuals as a rule. after all, there are so many heterosexuals in the world and throughout history who have been unspeakably vile/cruel/stupid/vengeful...and i dont think of them as the representation of all straight people.
dont want "gay marriage"? then dont have one.
think "dont ask/dont tell" is a good idea? really? ready to lose over 20% of your military forces? i would think the military is exactly where you wanted us...better chance of being killed that way and thereby taken off your hands.
dont want a homosexual influencing your children? too late. we're everywhere...and most of us are decent human beings.
dont like "the lifestyle"? guess what? it's not a "lifestyle". it's my life. i do the laundry, i pay the bills, i walk the dog, i make dinner for friends (straight and not so much), i shop for groceries, i teach, i grow, i think and i love. i dont rape children. i dont want you to abandon your beliefs. and, most importantly, i dont hate you.
lastly, i dont think anyone should be "pro-homosexual". i think, we should be non-hating. we should spend MUCH LESS time concentrating on the "less than" categorization of other human beings. we dont have that right. no one does. no one has the right to determine who is "better than" and who is "less than". it's not part of the deal we were offered when God made us.
any time you (and that's meant as the generalized "you" and not directed toward a specific person or post) tell me i have no right to the world i was born into...any time you tell me that my orientation is a "choice"...any time you tell me that i cannot have access to God because i am not following His laws to the letter...i have to shake my head. sometimes i even chuckle. i cant bring myself to be angry at you...it's gone far beyond that. now i just laugh because if i didnt i would cry in frustration at the damage you do with your "less than" treatment and your hatred. i've known people who have killed themselves to get away from the oppressive weight of that much hatred. it is, believe it, a lot of work to live with the burden of being hated and despised.
personally, i'd rather risk physical attack. that kind of hate is easier to deal with because it's honest. the thin veil of peace and love that masks Christian disgust is so good a disguise that i've found myself believing in it...and ultimately watching my entire world fall apart...not because i'm gay but because i was betrayed by born again Christians and the pretend love they practiced. their entire practice was a lie.
i spent years despising myself for being a lesbian. i tried for decades to change. but no matter how i tried/prayed/worked...it was not in my power to change the very fiber of my cells...and i was reviled by the very people who were supposed to be "saving" me. perhaps i should have lied to them. maybe they would have preferred that to the truth. than no matter how much i prayed, i cannot change certain things. i can lie about them and deny the life i've been given to live...but i cannot change my homosexuality.
who has the right to tell me what my relationship with God entails?
who has the right to tell me that my existence before God is repugnant to Him?
who has the right to tell me that God did not make me as i am?
who has the right to tell me that God does not know me better than any person ever could?
no disrespect intended, but i have been the target of more abuse and hatred from Christians (especially those who declare themselves "born again") than any other sort of person i've encountered. so much so that i've come close to believing that "born again" must be some kind of "get out of jail free card" issued to people who choose to pick it up. it's as though being born again means one doesnt have to take responsibility for one's self. again...that's been my experience...and i struggled with that issue...finally choosing to believe that it was unfair to stereotype all born again Christians as such.
why is it that i find myself working harder to be accepting and forgiving of those who would do harm to me (verbal, emotional & physical - and yes...all 3 have happened at the hands of people who called themselves Christians) than they do of me? after all, acceptance and forgiveness are primary focus of Christianity...as is the command to spend more time regarding one's own behavior and to leave one's neighbor's behavior to him/her to monitor.
we can site the bible chapter and verse. when i am confused by any of it i go back to the basics...the golden rule, the commandments...and i leave my judgments and my lack of tolerance toward the average Christian out of the mix.
that gets me back on track.
my relationship with God tells me, in no uncertain terms, that i have no right to judge you. i have no right to be intolerant of you. i have no right to deny you your right to exist merely because you hate as a rule of thumb...
again...that's the generalized "you"...
unless of course the shoe fits.
Welcome to Hubpages.
And God bless your sweet heart!
read Thirdgirl's post too - was trying to stay off this thread.
The Sky is Falling..... The Sky is Falling!
Homosexuals are infultrating our church and society and those evolutionary zealots are undermining the lord's work.
The Sky is Falling ...... The Sky is Falling!
What can we do?
We're already in the last days when more of similar cases will be the order of the day. But they that do know their God shall be strong and do exploits! I'm not surprised.
Funny enough the church is not where you get perfect people, but for the perfecting of the saints by His Word. What can we do? You asked! Pray that God's Greater Light shines in the hearts of men.
Isn't God a god of all things? So if we are judging the homosexual (whether it be behavior, or the person), then aren't we judging God's creation, and therefore judging God?
Maybe the purpose for the homosexual is to show us where we hold ourselves back from God's love through judgments, and so in that case, the homosexual is in the perfection of God's creation. God doesn't judge and if we say that God is judging the homosexual and withholding love from them, then we are really projecting our own human misperceptions onto God.
Maybe the homosexual is there to give the opportunity for Christians to witness to themselves. You cannot see in another what doesn't reside within yourself. If you have strong emotions on the homosexual, then what inside of yourself are you really judging? That homosexual gave you a great gift.... to see where you are judging yourself, therefore keeping you from fully receiving the love of God... not because God is holding it back from you, but because YOU are not allowing YOURSELF to receive from God.
Beautiful and peaceful, very well spoken, to God be the glory!
I am a Christian and the tone of your words shed light. Thank you. I do prefer that my sons marry a woman but this is my belief, this is what "I" want just as you want equal rights. We are all flesh and blood and have opinions and choices. I say that to say this: In a perfect world everyone would love me despite my beliefs as I DO love you all despite your beliefs. God IS love. Thirdgirl- be blessed, for you are truly the apple of His eye!
Psalms 9:7 The LORD reigns forever; he has established his throne for judgment.
50:3 Our God comes and will not be silent; a fire devours before him, and around him a tempest rages.
4 He summons the heavens above, and the earth, that he may judge his people:
5 "Gather to me my consecrated ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice."
6 And the heavens proclaim his righteousness, for God himself is judge.
96:13 they will sing before the LORD, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his truth.
PRO 11:31 If the righteous receive their due on earth, how much more the ungodly and the sinner!
12:14 From the fruit of his lips a man is filled with good things as surely as the work of his hands rewards him.
ECC 11:9 Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment.
12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
JEREMIAH 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve."
Most important: Ecclesiastes 3:17 "I thought in my heart, "God will bring to judgment both the righteous and the wicked, for there will be a time for every activity, a time for every deed."
*May these references be used for the believer and unbeliever alike. On the contrary Content, God DOES Judge. I will be judged as I judge others, may God give me the grace to love all human beings for I am not perfect, yet far from. This I KNOW: My love will cover a multitude of sins!*
I just read this whole thread! I have to say people who say they are Christians are looking pretty bad. It seems, You are trying to climb up to Heaven on the dead bodies of your fellow men and women. You are condeming people that never hurt anyone. You put homosexual men and women in the same category as a Murder. I know some gay people (close family members included) that would never hurt another person. Yet, a few of you want to save them by telling them GOD hates them and their ways! I'm thinking alot of you Christian need alot more saving then any homosexual I know.
perhaps, but just saying something is not a crime doesn't make it so. It matters more about what the judge thinks in the courtroom than what the criminal thinks in the darkness.
Take it from a lying thieving blasphemous idolater: it's not a good idea to justify yourself before a God who requires justice for breaking His laws.
God hates sin, he may even be angry at sinners all day. But He demonstrated his love that while we were yet lying thieving blasphemous idolaters and homosexuals (each in their own categories, sin), He humbled Himself and died for us. How dare we love and protect the sin He hates.
So you know that we're not unreasonable, I really do think that people are and should be free to live here how they please. I have a couple of friends who are homosexuals, they know what I think, and we're still friends. A man ought to do what he thinks is best. But there is a way that seems right to a man, but ends in death. Repent and trust in Christ alone, no one is good, not even one.
If the bible states that homo are sinners then be it. they're sinners but we should think about it this, even if we are not homo's we actually commit sins so that will make us a sinner to. In my opinion homosexuals should be given equal treatment. I think the reason behind why some Christians are against homosexual is because of reproduction. That is why a male must be a partner of a female, but nowadays it really doesn't matter if a homosexual loves to be with the same gender then let them. As long as they're not hurting anyone it's good and if homosexuals are really into a family then they can adopt a child.
I think the reason behind why some Christians are against homosexual is because of reproduction. That is why a male must be a partner of a female, but nowadays it really doesn't matter if a homosexual loves to be with the same gender then let them.
Someone mentioned before that the 'restriction' had much to do with the fact that the Jews needed to be building up their nation; if too many men were homosexual, that wouldn't happen. It also was part of many of the religions at the time and other cultures (as it probably always has been) and the Jews were being set apart to be different.
As for a gay agenda, some schools (MD for example) HAVE tried to teach children that homosexuality is normal, good, and a perfectly acceptable alternative. I object to that the same way I object to my kids being taught that all white people are bad. My granddaughter was taught that whites came in and evilly slaughtered the Indians - no mention of natives that already had a culture of kidnapping children to fill out their tribes, taking slaves, or slaughtering whites. What will she think when she's older and realizes she's a quarter native American herself? There needs to be both sides when it comes to history and social concepts and kids don't get that at school.
So...? It is an acceptable alternative....to anyone reasonable. Homosexuality falls somewhere on the normal spectrum of human sexuality. Some people are straight, some bi, some gay...it's always been that way. It is not something that's been dreamt up by the gay lobby in order to push an *agenda*. There are millions of gay people in the world..too many for homosexuality not to be considered anything other than a normal variation of sexual orientation.
to answer the original question: I witness to heteros and homos alike- there is no difference, the world must know of His Good News. I don't believe that I should witness to someone who smokes cigarretes any different than to someone who is gay, a gambler, a glutton, prideful etc. That is between them and God, as long as I love each one as my Father has commanded me and pray that God deliver ME from my sins so that His message is not hendered. God IS love!!! If a sinner should inquire of me God's Word as it applies to their life/situation- I will share scriptures and pray that God show them His truths. We should restore one another in love not judgement.
Ephesians 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
IPeter 2:17 "Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers,fear God, honor the king"
IJohn 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."
Typically contradictory statements.
IPeter 2:17 "Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers,fear God, honor the king"
IJohn 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."
Not so my friend, you see, in my earlier post I give reference to God Almighty being the only judge. As judge- He and He alone can bring forth justice with His punishment.
I can avenge myself if I so choose, but I am assured that in the day of judgement- God will avenge me. If I offend you or anyone else I will answer to Him and He alone and will receive my just dues. Therefore, I love you as He commands because I fear and respect His power!
Your reply makes no sense to me. I show you two contradictory statements. Why can't you see that?
In other words, you live in fear of a murderous despot. At least, that is exactly the same thing.
Ask God to give you the ears to hear and the eyes to see. If it be His will. My battle is not with you. On this FINAL note, be blessed.
See here is the thing. There is no god to ask. and I would never accept the "truth" from the psychotic hate filled little lunatic the bible calls god, so that leaves me with accepting responsibility for my own actions and being aware of the impact that makes in others lives, instead of palming the good off to a god, and the bad off to his angel satan.
The bible is a lousy copy of all that came before it. Manipulative words written by a few neurotic old sexist men.
To all Christians how are you witnessing to a homosexual?
Stop it now!
Why load anyone up with a bulldust story written by a bunch of old homophobic men?
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