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Why does religion have to be so organized?

  1. purpleangel47 profile image62
    purpleangel47posted 6 years ago

    When Jesus was alive was he walking around spouting affirmations of love, peace and brotherhood from a book? Or did his teachings come from his heart? While a book is a useful guide, it seems to me the heart is a much more reliable source.

    1. 0
      SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Many times Jesus quoted from the Old Testament.

      1. Pearldiver profile image87
        Pearldiverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh Pleeze.... Why Don't you Get Real and Tell the Truth!! sad

        Which Is......

        That You have absolutely NO PROOF that such a situation Occured and you are only guessing that it did roll

        Perhaps one should ask: Why is Organized so Religious? smile

      2. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Only three times, SD, did he quote Torah -not "Old Testament".
        One of them was only a partial verse - from Isaiah.

    2. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus only used "religion's" own words against it, so as to practice self-responsibility, control, love and mercy. wink

      1. purpleangel47 profile image62
        purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you Cagsil ... and my response to Rafini below was in part a response to your "imagination" comment .

        Thank you for responding

    3. goldenpath profile image81
      goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It is, however, that was Christ.  He organized the effort to reach all people.  He provided the doctrine and organized the Church.  Because of this we must be assured that His Church must and is an organized standard.  "His is a house of order."  He was emphatic about true authority and receiving and executing ordinances through the ordained authority by the Father and through Jesus Christ.  For this simple reason there is order in His house for the benefit of sustained doctrine and standards.

      1. purpleangel47 profile image62
        purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That's definitely food for thought goldenpath. Thank you for responding

      2. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And sustained employment for priests. wink

        I wonder how the instruction - "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

        Got changed to "find gainful employment promoting the doctrine and dogma that I despise and build big tall buildings in my honor."

        http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa234/laurnorb/salt_lake_lds_mormon_temple.jpg

        Oh yeah........ lol

        1. goldenpath profile image81
          goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Dig that corn cob out.  I've told you and others on numerous occasions that there are NO paid clergy in the Church.  Keep trying the "gotcha" technique.  Sooner or later you may just succeed! smile By the ways, that's a lovely picture you posted.  Been there on several occasions.

          Enjoy!

          1. 61
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            In other words, they made sure no paper trails exist. Cash only. smile

            1. goldenpath profile image81
              goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Boy, you're a real knee slapper!
              http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing001.gif
              So much so - I forgot to laugh...
              http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing004.gif
              In fact, the inability to drop this age old simple point of Church administration when I have repeatedly explained it gives way to a new and improved state of laughter:
              http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing013.gif
              This absolutely PROVES that the aim of repeating these kinds of posts is for attention only and not for true dialogue.  This affects me in no way, shape or form.  Sorry!  I have never been paid in any form by the Church - ever.  It's really not that hard to accept.  Really.

              Here's how you do it.  Just take a deep breath and say to yourself, "OK, goldenpath, thanks for your input."  After that put it to rest and never bring it up again.  Money trails are extremely easy to follow in any organization.  If we, as clergy, were paid in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do you really think I would be that dim as to claim the other way when I know how simple it is to prove otherwise.  Not....  To still be this spiteful after all these months is really counterproductive. 

              I really have no problems with you or your constant backlash against my faith.  It's a "roll of the back" sort of thing.  I do, however, find it amazing that the deep engrained suspicions continue when the simple plan of the administration has been laid out right before you time and time again.

              I now end my laughter.
              http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing018.gif

              1. 61
                (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I most certainly believe you have never seen anyone accept money in your church. smile



                How? Unknown amounts of cash pour in without any receipts given to the donor.



                The LDS is only required to disclose their financial statements in the UK, and not in the US. And they have not done so since 1959. smile

        2. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Problem with you mark knowles is that 1/2 of what u think applies to the whole, it doesn't.
          Asia bibi was arrested on june 19, 2009 following a heated argument about islam. She professed christ the other didnt. After 2.5 yrs in jail she is free and with her family again.
          In china. the Three-self-church is doing what the roman catholic church did back in Christs days. Offering sanctuary to those who sign up and free bibles too. Then the 'home churches' get ransacked and many people are killed, imprisoned. Their homes burnt.
          You live in a nice country where freedom to worship costs you nothing, so you put nothing into it, out of the selfishness of your heart. You never try to say anything positive you only tear down.
          In this wonderful but somewhat misguided attempt to portray all churches as big mansion like castles you have never been to any of the churches i attend. They are quaint, small, kinda outdated, little bigger than houses but certainly not the picture you describe. If you bothered to inform yourself around the hubpages or anywhere else for that matter you may realize that cathedrals are NOT the normal place of worship for most of christianity in our country, mud huts will do in most other countries. Most of these types of responses are out dated and incorrect.
          I find all  generalized responses to be the  idiocy of the brainwashed unsaved-massess mindset. 'You simply do not know and therefore you discredit the whole'. This is a simplistic, angry and useless way to export information and always, it is incorrect. Just because having a few pictures of mistakes, doesn't make you 'all knowing' nor does it endow you with new revelation.

    4. Disappearinghead profile image90
      Disappearingheadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus never gave us organised religion and the early church consisted of informal gatherings of fellow believers. Thge formality of the Christian religion only came about really when the Catholic church was established in rome. It's then that Christianity was turned in a potential p[roperous career.

      Truth is, to follow Christ you do not need the religious baggage of formal hierarchies, fancy clothes and funny hats, religious days, and beautiful archetecture. The popularity of house churches in the 80's was an attempt to be faithful to the original church concept.

      1. purpleangel47 profile image62
        purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        My thoughts exactly Disappearinghead. Thank you for responding.

    5. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Great question...  I think Jesus definitely spoke from His heart, but also, was in keeping with many things in the book, say the BIble.  (If that is what you are referring to)  Part of what made him such an incredible person, was he didn't contradict anything, but also showed that love, peace, forgiveness, and seeking truth was the way to go.

      Any religions that branch off from the rather simple teachings of Jesus, can lose focus and miss the bigger points, and get  caught up in power struggles, etc.  To answer you, I don't think religion needs to be so organized.

      1. purpleangel47 profile image62
        purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you oceansnsunsets ... that's really all I'm saying. That connecting with your true spirit, which is what I believe Jesus did, is a lot more simple than religions make it. Just living can be hard enough these days. We need a peaceful way of moving forward in every part of our lives.

        1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I hear you, Purpleangel.

    6. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Religion only has one reason for being organized- control. smile

      1. purpleangel47 profile image62
        purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And it's that control I have a monumental issue with Cagsil. When you start controlling any situation, you get caught up in maintaining that control; losing sight of where you're going and how to respect those that are going with you.

        1. Cagsil profile image84
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Unfortunately, those who are in power in government and the religious establishment(all of them), will not give up their usurped positions, because they themselves see themselves as better or superior to those who do not know any better.

          It is their system of control and it's getting tighter everyday. smile

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I love it when when ya say stuff that I couldn't agree more with.  Not going to allways anounce it when it happens though.

      2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Cagsil, If you would, could you please specify which specific religions you are speaking of when you say these things, because it sounds like you are saying its true of all people that practice religion.  That simply and obviously isn't a true thing, so that is why I wanted to clarify. 
        I think that what you said about control, is only true when its the actual reason, and actually happening.  If its not true, then its not true.  Hoping for more fairness here, thanks

    7. volleyball-jumper profile image79
      volleyball-jumperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "Why does religion have to be so organized? "  would people rather have it chaotic? lol i have no problem with organized religion, i dont know why people have a problem with the word "organized" when ever i hear organized i think its nice, because we can distinguish between two things. The World only works in organization, we humans need organization, so religion is "organized" for our own human sanity.
      SO my problem is not with "organized" religion, i have a problem with unorganized and chaotic believes of some big_smile. meaning i think some crazy people ruin it for all the others. The terrorist, supremacist etc,  they are the ones that deviate from the "organized" religion, and then all of the sudden religion is bad. Even Buddhism is organized.

      so many good things come from organized religion, and to see that pple  do not appreciate its value, then thats a little sad sad

      (just my humble opinion)

      1. purpleangel47 profile image62
        purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I'm thankful to have your opinion volleyball-jumper.
        And i agree that without organization, chaos would crush the little bit of stability that we have.
        My core issue is that people - the ones you mentioned- and so-called "normal" people, tend to morph organization into control and then poison the rest of the world one person, one group at a time.
        Ex: You've got parents holding the bible in their hand while they're abusing their children; news about a toddler starved to death and stuffed in a suitcase for not praying before meals; mindsets that believe all you have to do in life is shout a few hallelujahs, go to church all the time and you're free to abuse others, kill in the name of Christ, and then head back to church to start the cycle over.
        It's frightening .... (my humble opinion too) smile

      2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, a TON of good things have come from organized religion, and we continue to see it all the time.
        People may not want to admit it, but they do see it all the time as well.  Its a lot of good being promoted all around us.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes - I especially love the child sexual assaults - they are wonderful. The Haitian kidnappings? Wonderful love of the Lord for your own good being shared. The banning of Burkas in France and Italy? Super examples of the harmony that these ridiculous religions promote.

          Odd that you are now claiming responsibility for those things organized religion attempted to stop. Such as science. Almost every scientific advancement was hailed by the church as heresy and evil incarnate at the time. Even now you have religionists attacking any and all scientific knowledge as evil. This is one religionists opinion on space travel:



          But - "no ethical standards here" seems to be the religion catchphrase of the day. Just imagine the outcry when electricity was first invented. lol

          Thank you for reminding us all that defending the institution in the face of reality is all important. sad

    8. bwenzel100 profile image58
      bwenzel100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus is not only  the main character of the New Testament.  But the old testament fortold His coming and he was more knoledgeable than anyone ever before him on the Old Testament.  If you read about Jesus He quoted the Bible all the time so the answer is yes.  He did read out of God's word, the Bible.

    9. ahostagesituation profile image78
      ahostagesituationposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Jesus quoted from scrolls and books familiar to the people to often.  He was flexible, but there was definitely order to what he did. He quoted most often from the book of Isaiah.

    10. nikki1 profile image61
      nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      All Jesus did was help his community. Did random act of kindness stuff. When a lady touched his the bottom of his rob she was cured from her disease. He created bread from objects,. He changed a lot of lives.. according to the bible. And, Google resource.
      smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOLOLOL

        English - do you speak it?

      2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Great points Nikki, and ahostagesituation.

    11. Michael Willis profile image77
      Michael Willisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Posting reply to Original Poster!!! ( I have not read others replies and will not)

      When Jesus was alive He was teaching from the Father, God, Trilogy. (His heart) Depends on your beliefs how this is taken.

      The problem I see today in organized religion is that tradition and the "rulers" of the People in charge of Church today are more like the Pharisees and Sadducees of the Bible days.

      There will be those who get riled by this statement, but.....take a long look at how a lot of people act in Church today. If real Christians really followed the Bible as they claim....Church would be a place that welcomed everyone and showed God's love and mercy.

      I have tried to find a professional writer for years to share life history in Church to address my experiences in this matter.  Eyes in the Church (the people) need to be opened to why people are pushed away from organized religion.

      1. 0
        SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree to a point. Now I wonder what kind of church you go to.

        Pharisees were the ones who thought they knew it all. They remind me of a few atheists here. They followed what they decided was right within themselves.

        Many belief systems fall under the category of Pharasiac beliefs. Ypu must also remember that Jesus said, "If your righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees, you will not see the kingdom of heaven."



        My homechurch accepts anyone who wants to come. In fact, we would rather have drug addict and alcoholics come than those who have done nothing wrong. Maybe you just need to find a good homechurch for yourself.

  2. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    The New Testament is actually the story of Christ Himself as He fulfilled the OT prophecies. So yes, we should honor Him by spreading the Gospel---the good news of what He accomplished.   We're not Him, so we need His word to witness;  otherwise He wouldn't have given us that Book to follow.   You're right if you're saying it does no good to quote the Book if the principles aren't in your heart, though.

    1. purpleangel47 profile image62
      purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your response Brenda ... and basically that is what I'm saying. Trying to interpret the principles in the bible have led to gross misinterpretations, violence and many times death - all in valiant efforts to walk down an organized path. And I suppose we could debate that those who have taken the word that far probably had issues before they picked up the bible but that's circumstancial.
      I just feel that the basic principles of the bible are very simple - told via stories of what was happening during that time period for the most part.
      But many people tend to spend an inordinate amount of time translating each scripture, each book. Sometimes I think we're too busy climbing the mountain to open our eyes and look around.

  3. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Besides, in Jeremiah the Bible tells us the heart is "deceitful above all things".........so we have to check our hearts, so-to-speak, with what the word of God says.

    But as far as organized religion, I too believe it should be more simplistic and simple, not so involved and ritualistic.

  4. Rafini profile image83
    Rafiniposted 6 years ago

    Religion brought us Science which is organized thinking at its core.  Without organization where would the world be today?

    1. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Religion brought us science?

      Can you prove that? hmm

      Imagination brought about Science.

      Imagination also brought Religion.

      Imagination is "what" propels human beings into the future.

      1. luvpassion profile image61
        luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Actually yes...Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences, dating back to antiquity, with its origins in the religious, mythological, and astrological practices of pre-history.

        The beginnings of chemistry, or alchemy, as it was first known, are mingled with occultism and magic. Not Christian religion but religion non the less.

        From Wikipedia: Some modern scholars, such as Fielding H. Garrison, are of the opinion that modern geology began in the medieval Islamic world.[3] Geber (Jabir ibn Hayyan, 721-815 AD) is credited with the discovery of crystallization as a purification process, an important contribution to crystallography.[4] Abu al-Rayhan al-Biruni (973-1048 AD) was one of the earliest Muslim geologists, whose works included the earliest writings on the geology of India, hypothesizing that the Indian subcontinent was once a sea

      2. Rafini profile image83
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol  its quite obvious we think differently, cagsil. smile

        1. purpleangel47 profile image62
          purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          We all think differently Rafini. But that doesn't make either one of us an authority - as a matter of fact I think it brings us closer together. Or it could. Our imaginations - our varied imaginations are what's so attractive about the human race. Think how boring it would be without it. smile
          And that's also what spurred my original question. When something is too organized, for me, it removes any hope of imagination - and what kind of future would this nation have without it?

          Thank you for responding smile

          1. Rafini profile image83
            Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I was referring to another discussion Cagsil and I have had recently.  Another discussion where we disagree on a scale as wide as this one and the fact that I wasn't going to get into it here. smile  (if he read my post I'm sure he understood lol)

            I am quite different than you too, I need the organization in order to see my imagination.  Like I said, where would the world be today without organization?  Or, for that matter, imagination?  The world needs what humans have to offer.

            Personally, I don't think the imagination is what's so attractive about the human race.  What makes the human race attractive is the ability to think.  (in whatever form suits the individual)

    2. bwenzel100 profile image58
      bwenzel100posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      God created science to keep us entertained.  Ever notice that every time we get close to knowing something to be true it get's disproved.  There is more hard fact that support of creationism than there is of evolution!

      1. Rafini profile image83
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol  I've noticed that too!

      2. 61
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Disproving what? 



        What hard facts of creationism?

      3. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think you're confused between being disproved and finding that what we thought wasn't the whole story.  Science "facts" have been disproven but seldom - instead they are refined, or sometimes expanded.

        For instance everyone knows that a hard boiled egg takes about 5 minutes and a soft boiled egg takes about 3 minutes.  Try it at perhaps 15,000 elevation or in a sea habitat pressurized to 2 or 3 atmospheres.  The idea of 5 and 3 minutes needs expanding; it only works at sea level.

        1. Rafini profile image83
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I don't understand what cooking has to do with creation vs evolution....

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I often don't explain very well, I think.  The concepts behind the theory of evolution are not debatable, and I seriously doubt that there is a scientist alive today that would deny them.  Animals and plants DO change with time - we can observe and check many of the tools used by evolution and can even force some of them.  It is now considered factual.

            At the same time, small parts of the ideas in the general theory CAN and DO change with additional information.  Neanderthal man was not considered an ancestor of man in the past, although few would have made the claim as a firm fact.  We now know better - we carry some of his genes.  A small, specific part of the general theory must change, just as the egg timer needs changing with altitude.

            Proponents of creationism often push the idea that because the theory of evolution is not a complete, factual concept in every specific it is untrue and/or silly in it's entirety.  The specifics of evolution will never be know in entirety until a time machine is invented and billions of years of study of every possible organism is followed from it's beginning to then-current times.  That does not mean the general theory is wrong - it means we will never know every single specific fact.  We will never know exactly how many creatures donated genes between "Lucy" and myself.

    3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Excellent point, Rafini

  5. aguasilver profile image86
    aguasilverposted 6 years ago

    1 Corinthians 14:33

    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

  6. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    organization is a natural process, eventually everything organizes from randomness. i think this is the second law of thermodynamics.
    religion organized from sporadic passionate expressions of belief because well like organisms with tend to gather among things that are like us, and then we become units. that's how cells became complex organisms, they started out as individual cells and they formed a community and they became one complex structure.

    1. 61
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nope.

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
        ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        yes you are right Q, (well what do you know, you know your thermodynamic laws!)

        it is the reverse of enthropy.
        It is actually the contradiction of the second law of thermodynamics.

        Because biological structures do organize from randomness. The theory of evolution contradicts the second law of thermodynamics.

        1. 61
          (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And, a great deal more about physics, too. It's important to understand the world around us especially when those who pretend to understand attempt to tell us how they view the world.



          Yes, that is the classic false claim from believers who don't understand it. I suspected you would support it, too. smile

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
            ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            its just a contradiction because the second law of thermodynamics applies in a closed system.

            as for what is running the show, well the lifeforms are actively seeking energy, organizing to more efficiently usurp energy from the environment because they are conscious. life forms have varying scales of intelligence and survival instincts.

            just like religion is organizing to usurp money for survival of its systems. its all about getting as much sources of energy and organizing makes that more efficient.

            so go on and pursue that topic see if it proves your worldview.

            1. 61
              (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, but we've already established you don't understand those laws.  smile

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                no we didn't. we established that i got confused.  all you said was nope. I corrected myself.

  7. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    just the same, biological structures do organize from simple structures and gather to form more complex structures. and that is called evolution theory, the contradiction of the second law of thermodynamics. (which means, something maintains life?...uhoh, could it be G-d you think?)

  8. Shil1978 profile image87
    Shil1978posted 6 years ago

    The only reason I can think of is to ensure propagation, to enlist new recruits into the religion. Of course, there is also a certain class of people that benefit from organized religion!!

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      not only religion organizes, fans club self-organize. that is what meet-up.com is all about. when a large group is drawn to the same source of energy they cluster. its a natural phenomenon.

  9. 0
    Audreveaposted 6 years ago

    Old Christianity under Rome was considered to be suspiciously secretive and they wondered if something a bit dodgy was going on... so they made up lurid stories (as people do).

    I think once Constantine got behind it and Christianity became institutionalised... that was the beginning of a true power base.

    Organised isn't necessarily bad though and from the dark ages through to the middle ages and beyond, ordinary people weren't highly literate. If you were to believe in Christian teaching, you had to be told about it somehow.

  10. 67
    paarsurreyposted 6 years ago

    Why does religion have to be so organized?

    Hi friends

    The Creator- God Allah YHWH has attributes which manifest with a system; man is in the image of the Creator- God Allah YHWH so he should try to get organized within the freedom he has been given by the Creator- God Allah YHWH as per the scheme of the things.

    I express what I believe with reasons; others freely could differ with me with reasons.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    1. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately, you've no truth behind your words, but then again, you claim much without backing it up. So, what else is new. hmm

    2. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You provide no reasons. Perhaps your English is not so good? Perhaps you do not know what is "reason"?

      Thank you

  11. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    Isaiah provided the reason for organized religion when he made this prediction:
    And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
    And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

  12. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    I'll give you one reason why religion and most things are complex and confusing...MAN

    Thank God he decided how mankind would be saved because if it were left up to man we would be jumping through some many hoops pretty much no one would make it.

    It seems that you take the simpliest thing and give to mankind that simple thing would no longer be simple.

    I asked a bank employee just a couple of weeks ago if money was taken out of my checking account...I keep getting this what I call pre-record response about reimburse your account and some other jargon that didn't make sense...after 3 or 4 times "Was Money Taken Out Of My Account?"  Finally "Yes"  That's all I was looking was it or wasn't it-MAN!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And all the time people think like this - we will never change.

      Nonsensical assertions that it will all be OK becoz god dunnit is precisely what the small elite that make all the money persuading us to consume everything in sight want.

      Monotheistic religions rely on sheeple like you to think they have no control. This is why the idea of an invisible super being in the sky was created in the first place.

      Because if you think you have no control - then you have no control. I mean - look at "Onus on us" who has given up and expects the "Onus on some one else" to majikally do something.

      Jerami spends all his energy trying to decipher what the "prophecies" mean and the rest of us fight over the whole idea.

      A belief in god teaches you not to think for yourself and ensures no moral development. None.

      Who lives in this house?

      http://thesslea.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/salt_lake_lds_mormon_temple.jpg

      1. Onusonus profile image88
        Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Mark, trying to convince a Mormon that the temple is a bad place is like jerking off to pictures of dead babies, only an atheist can pull it off.

  13. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Mark K.

      I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here or even if you're comments are directed towards me.

    When if comes to change we are always changing it's just most of the time it's not for the good.

    It's been what about what 2,000 years and we still are trying to figure out how to be better people??

    1. nikki1 profile image61
      nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      In Gods world..
      Its all about respecting one another. Compassion,. That is all GOd and his son was doing. And, they got rudely interrupted.

      "May we all have peace be in our hearts and we have strength, wisdom, plus may Gods love and grace be within us all. We are truly special people thank you God for giving us so much beauty in our world and for our beautiful days, etc in your precious name and in your sons precious name, Amen"

      1. 61
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Is it compassionate to send non-believers to hell? Is it compassionate to allow tens of thousands of children to die of starvation every day? Is this the compassion in your gods world, because it is a reality with believers.

        1. nikki1 profile image61
          nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It depends on how the non-believers act. That determines where your soul goes. Its a shame of starving children. I was specifying how to treat others.

          1. 61
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No, it doesn't. Your god will send me to hell regardless of how I act. He wants obedience and worship, just like a murderous despot demands.



            Yes, it is, your god is shameful for letting it happen.

            1. nikki1 profile image61
              nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              God is hurting as well. It is ashame you feel that way. God is a loving God he wouldn't hurt you. And, you have all wrong. Your actions will get to hell. He forgives attitudes and mistakes when you own up to them.

              1. 61
                (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Nonsense, if your god has the power to create a universe, he can certainly provide food for the starving.



                Sorry, but that's not what your religion states. Please read your scriptures if you haven't done so yet.

                1. nikki1 profile image61
                  nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I have..

                  1. 61
                    (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Then, you should be well aware that your god will send me to hell for not obeying and worshiping him.

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Not so much. All you are doing is parroting garbage. Did you even go to school?

    2. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No. We are not trying because we have all the answers - and all the time people like you think god will majically fix it, we never will.

  14. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Well Tell me something Mark K.  If mankind is so great as you believe they are then why are the jails filled with evil people?  Why are women and children afraid to walk the streets these 2,000 years later.  Why are we ready to blow ourselves up with all the bombs we have.

    You're saying that just having faith in God cause the Godless to act this way?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It causes all of us to act this way, yes. How about we change and try and deal with it instead of hanging onto this divisive belief system that will always cause conflict?

      We could be great. If we get rid of the three things holding us back.

      Religion. Nationalism. Money.

      1. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I think John Lennon is spinning in his grave, hearing his words repeated by Hubpages' most divisive element, Mark Knowles.

    2. 61
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Prisons are full of Christians. smile

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Christains have always been placed in prisons.  Pretty much most true believers feel this is a faith they can't avoid.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          I think it implies that non-believers are less likely to be criminals, since they only make up less than one percent of the prison population.

          Do you know what a strawman fallacy is?

        2. 61
          (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, they haven't been "placed" into prisons, they have been convicted of the crimes they've committed. They have been determined unsafe to be in society. No morals.

    3. getitrite profile image80
      getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      Just in case you missed it--it is not the Godless who are ready to blow themselves up with bombs.  It's the people with faith.

      During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65% Catholics,
      26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1% non-religious.

      Religion is not the guardian of morals.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The point being here is it really are the Christains who are in control when in come to blowing up the planet.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w299/mrdjs7/Lohan2.jpg

          1. nikki1 profile image61
            nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Not really. There are some atheists as well. And there are some odd Christians. However, a true Christian helps/encourages.  Gives strength,.

            1. nikki1 profile image61
              nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Opps, my bad

  15. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    I agree with 2 of the points areas we could eliminate but mankind isn't smart enough nor will we ever be smart enough to create a better world because it is not in our nature.

    I pointed this out once before, people have to be taught has to act good- we don't have to taught how to behave badly.

    Tell a scientist not to created clones and you just might as well be talking to a wall.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Rubbish. You religionists have been persuaded we are not smart enough, and as I said in the first place -

      "And all the time people think like this - we will never change.

      Nonsensical assertions that it will all be OK becoz god dunnit is precisely what the small elite that make all the money persuading us to consume everything in sight want. "

      sad

  16. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Believe in mankind if you want but a lot of people's lives ended early because they dic so:

    American Civil War
    Germany against the world
    Japan against America
    World War I
    World War II
    Vietnam, etc

    Well I don't need to list all of them.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. Sorry - what is your point? Where was your majikal belief in a super being here exactly? Did the religious put a stop to this? LOLOLO The crusades, the colonization of the Amerikas, the destruction of the indigenous populations. Money, religion, nationalism.

      Oh - you mean you do no know that the same people in charge of the religions own the armament factories. Dear me. Still - not to worry - it will all be OK in the end becoz god sed so. lol lol lol

      All you are doing is defending  your ridiculous belief. This is what your religion teaches you.

      Sheeple.

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this
        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Ouch! But on the money.

          1. Valerie F profile image60
            Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And I bet all of them are convinced they're thinking for themselves.

  17. Ruce Otter profile image59
    Ruce Otterposted 6 years ago

    Religion does not have to be nor should it be organized.

    One's relationship with one's god is and should be a personal and private affair.  Even Christ felt that way:

    Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

    2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    1. purpleangel47 profile image62
      purpleangel47posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you very much for your comment Ruce Otter.

  18. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    come on now, Atheists are Sheeple too.

    "Positive Pimpin`" - Eddie Griffin

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sure - some of them are - no question. Nationalism and money are pretty powerful also.

  19. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    Is it? Are they? Seems to me its disorder .How can one own disorder?

    1. nikki1 profile image61
      nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ?

  20. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    Song lyrics

  21. aware profile image71
    awareposted 6 years ago

    Men pen books.

    1. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Prophets speak by the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore they speak the words of Christ.

      1. nikki1 profile image61
        nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Nicely put smile

        1. Onusonus profile image88
          Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That's how the Bible was written!

          1. Cagsil profile image84
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            How would you know? You take it on faith. hmm

            1. nikki1 profile image61
              nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              It is written and we believe in the Bible.

              1. Cagsil profile image84
                Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And, like I said before and I will repeat myself. Your belief in the bible is misplaced and you do not even know nor can you tell the difference.

                It's quite funny, people belief in a man-made written book, supposedly about some god, which only lives in a spiritual place.

                Ironic, Jesus was completely against the religious establishment/rulers of his time and he himself told his followers that "religion's god" was a false idol.

                Jesus' work was stolen by religious leaders/rulers, so as to not expose the hoax of the god of religion. Therefore, you cannot differentiate between what god to follow. It was done on purpose and is the sole reason for the existence of Christianity.

                They DID NOT have Jesus' approval, but didn't need it because they had already executed him for no crime.

                Do a little background before you blindly believe something to be true.

                1. nikki1 profile image61
                  nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Prove this. Again, I believe in Jesus. He was loyal to his community. He would never betray his father. Or say such
                  things to his followers. Where is this written.

                  1. Cagsil profile image84
                    Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Nikki, you need to get out more. Go to a library, do a little book reading on ancient world history and ancient religious history.

                    Look at the time frame Jesus lived. Look at how advanced humankind was not. Then, look at who was ruling?

                    Compare Jesus' execution and notice when Christianity came about.

                    You might not like what you find.

                    Jesus' work - "kingdom of heaven" meant Earth.
                    Jesus' work - "hell" dead and buried in the ground
                    Jesus' work - "kingdom of god" power within yourself.
                    Jesus' work - "god" + "holy spirit" was for each follower to focus on themselves and nothing more.
                    Jesus' work - being god in your own life, through loving yourself and compassion for others.

                    The "father" was a metaphor, thus describing leadership quality.

                    No god required.

          2. nikki1 profile image61
            nikki1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            smile

      2. Cagsil profile image84
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Only in their minds, when they actually speak, they are most likely giving their opinion, without any objectivity whatsoever.

        1. Jerami profile image79
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There is a diffrence between a prophet and a wanna be!

          1. 61
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            What difference, exactly? And, how would you know he was an impostor?

            1. Jerami profile image79
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I don't think that you/I will.  Did John Wayne ever have to tell anyone that he was tough!  A prophet will never come declaring himself as one.   The proof in in the pudding as they say.   The prophet has no worth, any more than anyone else.

                 A piece of paper is a piece of paper...  it is the words written on the paper that determines if it needs to be kept or thrown in the trash.

              1. 61
                (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly. Nuff said. smile

          2. Cagsil profile image84
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            roll

  22. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Just one of many points.

    In all of mankind's history I have heard of only Man Ever To Walk On Water and The Discipline he called out the boat but sure Jesus was holding him up.

    1. Cagsil profile image84
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      roll

    2. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Try the Hindu religion Span Star. If you want to encompass mankind's history on miraculous deeds you need to expand your religious knowledge. Jesus didn't have a monopoly in this field.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Jewel as an Atheist how would know what Jesus had?

        1. Jewels profile image82
          Jewelsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Who said I'm an atheist?

  23. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    (Q) wrote:
    And, how is it such that you could ever believe such a ridiculous notion? What possible reason is there for god to create one group of humans to feed another? Why doesn't he just feed everyone? Isn't that discrimination? Does he hate those people? Is there something wrong with them? Why has his plan failed so miserably and why doesn't he fix it? How many more children must endure abject poverty and starvation before your god does something about it?

      Then clearly and by your own admission, it must be the good ole Christians of America who are the most selfish of all, as they are the only ones who "get" what they "want" while others perish for their "want"

    Any more failed justifications?

    =============================================

    Jerami said...   You would be absolutely correct "IF" life here on this earth was all that there is.
        You would be absolutely correct "IF" this physical life were the prize.

         "IF" there is nothing better than this after death;
      that would also mean that there is no God for you to blame for letting the children die.
       And if there is a God to blame;  those that have died go to a better place. thus nothing to blame God for.

       You can not have it both ways.

    1. 61
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      More non-answers, thank Jerami. roll

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I guess that some people just can not see the sun rise.

        1. 61
          (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No Jerami, Christians can't answer hard questions that contradict their faith. Simple, really.

          1. Jerami profile image79
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No; Christians can't answer the questions in a way that you can understand. Christians won't answer the way thay you want them to.
               When you do not want to understand .. you can not.
               Why ask a question that you know you do not want an answer to?

                It is really obvious.  You controll the conversation by changing the subject. Turn it into an arguement with you instead of a conversation betweem them.  Maybe you are jealous?
               For you it is about controll.

               I see it in my back yard all the time.
               A group of Blue Jays come in chasing all the other birds away from the bird feeder.  They don't want any of the seeds. The Blue Jays just don't want the other birds to have any.  I have even seen them chasing chicken hawks and and dogs away.

               I guess the Blue Jays consider these to be trouble makers.
            and are defending their territory.

            1. 61
              (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Nonsense Jerami, you're making up excuses and furthering the hypocrisy of Christians. This isn't about me, Jerami, no matter how hard you want to turn it around and make it about me.

              1. Jerami profile image79
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Who is it about when the Blue Jays are chasing the Chicken Hawk away.
                   The Blue Jays or the Chicken hawk?

                1. 61
                  (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  How about the Christians chasing the starving children away to get all the food from Jesus? Get real, Jerami. smile

                  1. Jerami profile image79
                    Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    If that were the case; it seems that you are chasing them back across the fence.

                  2. Valerie F profile image60
                    Valerie Fposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Wha??? Where did you see this happen?

  24. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    No answer so I'm going to bed   Night yaul.

  25. 61
    (Q)posted 6 years ago

    We can once again throw these and other hard questions on the massive pile of hard questions Christians cannot answer. Well done. Keep believing, you know not why.

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      because you hard of hearing does not mean that answers wern't given.

      1. 61
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I can hear fine, especially the lies of Christians when they speak.

  26. Merlin Fraser profile image78
    Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago

    I think the question was  “Why does religion have to be so organized?”

    My question is why does no one actually try to answer the question without getting into, yet another “I believe,” “I don’t believe,” shit slinging contest ?

    Surely the answer is fairly obvious, or at least it is to me.
    Religion has to be organized with lots of rules and rituals that have to be repeated, daily, doubly so on special occasions this is how train the mind to accept the will of those setting the rules and rituals.  In this way you can keep the mind closed and prevent it from challenging those in authority.

    It is so easy to divide and conquer the human mind, religion is not about God or Faith it’s about Power and who has. 

    It and it is not until you take the mythical image of God and the promise of better things to come out of the equation that you can actually free your mind to accept the fact that man created religion and they use God as a weapon of mental suppression.

    I know they didn’t have coffee 2 – 5,000 years ago but we do so for pity’s sake wake up and smell it and take back your life and start thinking for yourself.

    1. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I disagree, the human spirit needs constant nourishment otherwise the straight path becomes corupted and we fall into an apostate condition, we start to make up our own rules and forget about the guidlines which were set by God from the begining.

      1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
        Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I rest my case !

        For constant nourishment read, interference.

        For apostate condition , read free thinker.

        Sorry to be the one that has to point out that those who proclaim they speak the word of God have been making up the rules for centuries.
        It was also the same people who came up with the original guidelines as you call them...

        'Heads Up'  There are a lot of us who worked out for ourselves that
        'Thou Shalt Not Kill' is a pretty good idea without any spiritual nourishment or outside help other than a good upbringing.

        1. getitrite profile image80
          getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



          Yep, he definitely proved your case.

          1. Onusonus profile image88
            Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Dude you are just trying to divide and conquor, So it's ok for modern scientists, historians, mathmaticians and the like to gather together to build in knowledge, but religious people are stupid for doing the same thing.
            Double standard.

            1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
              Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Not sure who Dude is but I'll answer for him if you like.

                Science deals with testing and proving facts.  As mankind has developed he has stretched his mind to seek out answers and to challenge past theories and develop new theories that will challenge those who will come after us.

              I'm sorry but I don't see any religious group doing anything like that, rather the opposite in fact.  They seem to want to cling to the past in endless repetition of things past down to them.  That is not gathering knowledge that is just going round in circles.  This is why we still have the Flat Earth Society, Creationists and people who still think the Sun and the stars revolve around the Earth.

                Scientists challenge each other all the time that is how science progresses, but I don’t see or hear any church goers challenging their leaders.  For instance the Bible is full of stories of God talking to man but nobody seems to wonder why God has been silent for a few thousand years.  Or why a couple of thousand years ago the Jewish people were praying for a Messiah to help rid them of the Roman invaders.  The Christians reckoned they got one and went on their merry way while the rest of the Jewish population is still waiting.  Don’t they know the Romans have gone or what ?

              1. Onusonus profile image88
                Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                As much as you would like to think that the point of religion is to cling to the past, I see people every Sunday, learning from the past, preparing for the future, growing in their thoughts and beliefs, and building on their personal integrity. While imperfect people exercise their right to gather together in a peacefull manner to worship a perfect God, they continue to develop praiseworthy, and Christlike attributes, their children are raised with the strongest family values, they seek to improve worldly conditions by feeding the hungry, and providing humanitarian aid from country to country. I have yet to see the "Freedom from religion foundation" come close to providing a grain of charity to anyone in dire circumstances like the Christian community does. All of this is done by people who support organized religion. It is just a fact of life that you can do more, and be more efficient when you are a strong body of people dedicated to a rightous cause.

                1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
                  Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Onusonus,

                  End of discussion,

                  If you believe that only the religious have compassion and are capable of charity then there is no point in even trying to talk to you.  By your narrow minded response you insult every person who fails to support a religious faith but nonetheless digs deep into their pockets every time there is a natural disaster anywhere in the world or supports great charities like UNICEF or the Red Cross.

                  Go to countries like Africa and South America and see your charity at work, these continents contain some of the poorest countries in the world in spite of their strong religious backgrounds, where is your ‘perfect’ God ?    I have lived there and work there and many other impoverished countries as well so please don’t preach to me about only the Godly doing good work.

                  1. Onusonus profile image88
                    Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    While I appreciate the meger efforts of nondenominational causes, they still pail in comparison to the efforts of religious organizations that consistantly pour their resources into the aid of third world countries and their home countries. We cure diseases, we feed the hungry, we shelter the homless, and cloth the naked, most of all it is the churches that teach morals to the people, and they bring the light of Christ to the starving soul.
                    I couldn't imagine what the world would be like if there were no religious organizations around to support these people, but I guarantee that the world would be a wasted existance without the hope of eternal life.

              2. getitrite profile image80
                getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                Thanks, dude

                That was a true, rational, well articulated response.

                1. Onusonus profile image88
                  Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Not a problem homie.

                  1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
                    Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi getitrite,

                    I'm a late comer to this debate so forgive me for asking who is this 'Dude' to whom you keep referring and perhaps then I could decipher on which side of the fence your response is supposed to be.

  27. MickS profile image77
    MickSposted 6 years ago

    it is patently obvious why religion is organised, it is the same as any establishment body, organisation makes it easier to control the population, the hierarchy of any religious body is no different to the hierarchy of any government or company, it is the people who make a nation, it is the people who make a church, not the people in charge.

  28. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Oh Yea...Christian Believers Are Nothing But Crack Pots...How Can These Lost Minded People Believe In Superstition?  It Is Crazy To Support That Which Isn't Fact And Scientific.

        WHAT A BUNCH OF HOGWASH

    If Science Is So Perfect Then Why Are People Intelligent People, Science Mind People Stepping Up To The Plate And Taking The Next Experimental Drug.  Below They Are Coming Out With A Pill To Extend Your Life 30 Years So I Expect To See People Flying To This Opportunity.

        After That Are A Listing Of Scientific Blunders -Not Enough Room To List Them All
        Trust My Life To These People....GIVE ME SUPERSTITION


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic … years.html

    A scientist is developing a pill that could add 30 years to the human lifespan, it has emerged.
    Professor John Speakman has been awarded £450,000 to investigate how the hormone thyroxine can affect metabolism rates and rid the body of free radicals, thereby extending life.
    The University of Aberdeen has already identified that mice with a higher metabolic rate


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic … z0q80HGKTH
            -------------------------------------------------------------
    Scientific Blunders:
    http://academicconnections.ucsd.edu/pro … lunder.cfm

    * Galileo, who (although generally a scientific genius) spent years trying to prove a false theory of the tides

    *Ptolemy, whose elaborate cosmological scheme placed the Earth at the center of the universe and allowed astronomers to make accurate predictions for centuries to come
              ---------------------------------
    long kept quiet—that Mr. So-Called Charles Darwin, with his dumb beard and his dumb theories, born 200 years ago this very year, was wrong. Not just a little bit wrong. A lot wrong. Wronger than a bluetick hound on moonshine. Wronger than a Dixie Chick wearing a blindfold. And he could, additionally, be a real pain in the you-know-where about it.

    http://discovermagazine.com/2009/nov/da … -for-world
              ---------------------------------

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Let me get this straight. You are defending your utterly ridiculous beliefs based on the fact that there are some insane scientists?

      Is this the same as it is OK that Christians are murderers and baby rapers because an atheist killed some one?

      WHAT A BUNCH OF IRRATIONAL HOGWASH

    2. Merlin Fraser profile image78
      Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Whoever said science is perfect ?   Who said science has all the answers ?  Not me that’s for sure.

      “....that Mr. So-Called Charles Darwin .....”    So Called ?   Don’t understand that one, he was called Charles Darwin, that was his name and far from being wrong the greater part of his original theory of evolution by natural selection has been proven fact.   Even the Vatican has acknowledged and accepted Darwin’s version maybe be a little more accurate than the theory of creation in the Bible. Which, by the way the Genesis version was correct then that would put man and the Dinosaur on the face of the planet at the same time.  Isn’t it funny how none of the other powers around at the time, the Greeks or the Egyptians noticed or failed to mention seeing them.

      Get a grip...

      Science isn’t perfect and all scientific theory is open for challenge, that’s the difference, anyone can challenge scientific theory if you have a better theory....Great.... Prove it !   

      Spouting the same old stuff every Sunday doesn’t make it fact and proves nothing.   

      It isn’t an ‘Us’ or ‘Them’ thing, or at least not for me it isn’t.   I’m not a man of science but I like to think I have an open and enquiring mind.  For me I am satisfied that there is no such thing as God because when I leave the God factor out of the equation I discovered how much more sense things became.

      So it is with Darwin’s book, assuming you have even read it, or are you just spouting someone else’s Creationist rhetoric ?  In spite of popular misconception Darwin did not set out to disprove the existence of God,  in actual fact he was deeply troubled by his own observations and findings and the impact that it would have. So much so he delayed making public for many, many years.

      All I ask you and any other person, is set God to one side, just for a moment and read the book and when you take into consideration what man does in the breeding and cross breeding of domestic animals then you will realise that Darwin makes perfect sense.

  29. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    You know, when Jesus was captured and taken to be judged by men I thought for a long time why didn't Jesus defend himself.  If anyone had the knowledge and ability to express himself so that all could clearly understand it would be Jesus but I believe it was a pastor who better helped me to understand.

    These men Didn't Care What Jesus Had To Say-They Wanted To Kill Him So It Didn't Matter What Jesus Said.

    1. Jerami profile image79
      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      AND according to scripture Jesus came to be crucified.
      I also think that this is why he turned over the money changers tables. He wasn't angry, he was prodding the Pharisees.

      It was time for prophesy to be fulfilled

    2. Merlin Fraser profile image78
      Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't suppose it ever occured to you that it was the Jewish Holy Powers who ruled at the time who wanted Jesus killed because he threatened the Status Quo ?   He was questioning their right to be the only religious voice in the land.

      They used the Roman's as executioners but they were the ones who were supplying the evidence.

      As I recall the Roman's were going to let him go so tell me who were these men again ?

      Did they not claim to be the voice of God as well ?

      Can both be right.... but of course they could both be wrong !

  30. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Darwin THEORY- been there, done that....

    Life is a continuing cycle if this selective breeding did work like Darwin claimed then someone, somewhere would have seen this process take place.  I've never, ever heard any generation say anything about "Hey come over here this chimp just had another half human baby."

    Today we have the ability to track down a 2 bit cook that left California and is now hiding on the streets of New York City But we can't Some 7-8 foot Hairy Big Foot In Some Wooded Area-I Wonder Why?

    1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
      Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      ".......  if this selective breeding did work like Darwin claimed then someone, somewhere would have seen this process take place."

      Darwin didn't claim it he observed it and commented upon it just as  I have.  Take a look at dogs, they all have one single common ancestor the Wolf.  Due to the genetic manipulation of man how many useless but pretty breeds do we have now ?

      Farmers do it all the time, to breed birds and animals with less fat and or whatever the market requires.  Man is merely manipulating natural selection. Same with genetic crops and, because of people like Darwin mankind can and does speed up and interfere with the natural process of life whether you accept it or not, it happens to be a fact. 

      You want to see a half human half chimpanzee, go screw a Chimpanzee, that’s how it works, not by divine intervention but by cross species mating.  Darwin didn’t invent evolution he observed it.

      Then you switch sides to claim that science can track someone from California to New York , not sure how unless the police are tracking him by the use of his cell phone or credit card activity, however I suspect you are trying to mock the science of DNA . That can’t track anybody, but used forensically it can provide evidence that the California cook is the same one that now resides in New York.

      Not sure about the sudden leap to mythical creatures like Big Foot or what relevance to your anti Darwinist argument this may have.      I’m not sure Darwin’s notes covered Big Foot the Yeti or for that matter the Loch Ness monster !

  31. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Since I don't believe I do enough compliments I want to take this time to say Onusonus I've read your posts and I like your style as well as how you convey your messages.

    I don't know if we'll ever face each other but for now you are wearing the full armor of God-nice job.

  32. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    Quick clarification:

    maybe they can't find big foot because there is No Big Foot-connection to Darwin is that people think it might be a hybrid.

    tracking down people- we today have devices that turns night into day, we can read body heat and being in the woods not being that populated we should be able to pick body heat from a 7 foot creature while flying a helicopter.

  33. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    I missed a point since you brought it up.

    dog breed brings about differences but these differences are still in the same species.

    People breed interacially but they still have human babies.

    What happens when you breed a dog with a monkey?

    1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
      Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No idea....  interesting notion though.

      Perhaps you would get a dog that could pick off its own fleas....

      As to looking for Big Foot, why would you want it found ?  It's part legend, part myth and does wonders for tourisim....as I said like the Loch Ness Monster... people look but the Scottish tourist board don't want positive proof one way or the other.

  34. 0
    SirDentposted 6 years ago

    What does age have to do with it? Lots of older people still have no real clue about anything.



    You mean people are not dying as fast as before means it isn't working? Children are being fed and given medicine which we take for granted in the USA means it isn't working?




    You quoted that Onusonus made insulting comments. That is attemtping to start a fight. Onus did no such thing.





    So you are angry because they are happy? Their bellies are filled and they sing happy songs makes you angry, go ahead and admit it.



    I give you this one. If I recall correctly a few posts back I listed 4 atheist charities. One of them was only started recently but I don't know how long the others have been around.

    I did happen to notice the name of each charity showed that they had an agenda beyond feeding or helping others. I can find them again and show them to you.

    I do question your original motive. The quote below was originally directed at Onus.
    So tell me, are you saying we should let them starve or die if diseases instead of feeding them and giving the medicine?


    You are right but you miss the most important point. You need God in order to just live. He is the giver of life and He can take it away.

    1. 61
      (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I would agree, your god removes the lives of tens of thousands of children daily, very shortly after he just finished giving life to them. One wonders why he keeps giving life and then taking it away, only to have those who suffer his wrath also suffer in abject poverty and death from starvation.

      I'm also sure that SirDent will never argue against non-believers as to what god can and can't do, for if he does I'll be sure to refresh his memory with his own words.

      Thank you, SirDent. smile

  35. Merlin Fraser profile image78
    Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago

    You are right but you miss the most important point. You need God in order to just live. He is the giver of life and He can take it away.

      Sir Dent,

      You Win, you refreshed my memory to stay away from Forum subjects infitrated by the God Squad. 

    You and your pals remind me of the story of the Bishop walking through a beautiful garden, when he sae the head gardner on his knees stop to paise him. 
    "Bless you my son isn't it wonderful what wonders God and man can achieve when they work in harmony ?"

    The gardner looked up with a smile, "Sure is Father, but you should have ssen the friggin' mess it was in when God had it to himself !"

    Nuff said ?

    I withdraw to the peace and quiet of a safe distance away from the preaching !

    1. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Merlin,
      All I was trying to point out was the fact that God has created you, he gave to you the ability to move and do according to your own will, so you are indebted to him forever, and you act like he owes you something.
      The fact is that he gave us all life, he created the world, and has offered you eternal life and all that he requires is that you keep his commandments, even if you were to offer your whole soul and everything that you have to him still you would be an unprophetable servent. Do you think that a sparrow does not fall to the ground without his knowing what happened? And if this is true then he is aware of every unjust event that occurs or is inflicted by his children, and they will all have to give an account for their deeds and misdeeds in the world to come, and who are we to judge God who is perfectly just in all that he does. If we, being unjust, know what is good and what is bad, then all things corrupt will undoubtedly be corrected by the Lord God.

      Now that's preaching. See the difference?

      1. 61
        (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The giant invisible lizard purported to have sneezed the universe out of its nostrils is as indebted to by us as your god. So are all the other gods... all of them... especially the invisible ones... wink

        1. Onusonus profile image88
          Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Fools mock but they will mourn, God's grace is sufficient for the meek. Humble yourself before God and he will make weak things strong.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
            ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lol the fog is thick, you won't be able to drive that car in that highway.

            1. Onusonus profile image88
              Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Have you ever prayed to God with true faith? Or did you demand something that you didn't get?

              1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                the metaphor went over your head.

                1. Onusonus profile image88
                  Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Enlighten me.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    some people will never understand G-d because they have no experience of G-d. They have not allowed it. So to drive the point to a negative is just to waste your energy.

                    Do not hide behind G-d. If your battle is with another person's ego, speak of ego...not G-d. G-d is not part of all this. G-d is just the excuse.

          2. 0
            Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            This is what annoys me about 'believers', you memorize words in books -use preacher tone of voice- yet have no bloody clue what it ACTUAL means. I Am, give me strength, that your blood is not spilled in vane!

            1. Onusonus profile image88
              Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              This is what annoys me about 'non believers' you read the scriptuers without an ounce of faith and then proceed to interpert them as if you were the ultimate authority who knows more about God's words than God himself.

              1. 0
                Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                First, you are foolish to think you are a believer. Second, what I have experienced far exceeds your quest for sensational apathy, my friend. The G/god you speak of, you know NOTHING about, save books and ritual appearances to satisfy YOUR need.

                You have no understanding of the measure of faith given you, yet you parade as an angel of light. Guess what, the parade is coming to an end. All those fancy balloons and hot air Helenistic helium are about to pop. You do not know the One who is, so do not pretend you do, for your sake. Else, please, call upon you G/god, maybe he is on the toilet -as my friend Elijah said - and cannot hear you.

                1. Onusonus profile image88
                  Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You know for being such an enlightened person you sure do speak with alot of vennom in your mouth.

                  1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    there are three types of people interacting in this forum. the believer...that's you, the nonbeliever, thats the other guy and then those that just sees the two extremes. There are three camps, the negative, the positive(that's you) and the space in between, containing the essence of both but are neither. I'm not talking about agnosticism. I'm talking about serious know-it-alls about the absolute. the absolutely nothing.

              2. 0
                Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Ehyeh asher ehyeh, is the Authority that gives me. Who are you to say otherwise?

                1. Onusonus profile image88
                  Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Realy? did he put his hands on your head and ordain you to the office or did you get the ordination on line by following five easy steps?

                  1. 61
                    (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh goody, it's the URC (Ultimate Religious Conflict). http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/popcorn.gif

                  2. 0
                    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Ah, spoken like a true churchianity catholic alter boy. good job. still waiting to hear from your Baal G/god. Let me know...

              3. ceciliabeltran profile image84
                ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                what you call faith is not actually what it means. faith as big as a mustard seed. the power of certainty of the essence. it is about the universal truths contained in an essence. it is not about belief. it is about knowledge.

              4. 61
                (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Most atheists here certainly know scriptures much better than the believers. Of course, we wonder how believers are so convinced their own personal interpretations of their gods are the authorities? LOL.

                1. 0
                  SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You may actually be right about that. Watch your roof and make sure it isn't cracking since I wrote that.

                  The biggest problem is this. You know what the Bible says, but believers know "who" the Bible is. We know the One that authored it.

                  1. 61
                    (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Roof good, cracking no, god invisible, undetectable.



                    So do we. smile

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Nonsense. If that were true - there would never have been any religious wars and you would all agree. Not seeing that - Ergo you are just deluding yourself to give yourself a sense of personal power that is lacking.

                    This is called "low self esteem" Dent. You "know" nothing and it is actually quite laughable that you purposefully create this division and still cannot understand why this causes conflict.

                    No morals. None. sad

                  3. getitrite profile image80
                    getitriteposted 6 years ago in reply to this



                    http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii136/bjurasev/drugs.jpg

          3. 61
            (Q)posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Which god were you threatening me with again? smile

    2. ceciliabeltran profile image84
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      the audacity of man to think that by pruning a garden, he makes it better.

      1. Jerami profile image79
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        At first glance that is a simple statement.

           .......................

           but after looking at it for a moment ....   It says a lot

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          sometimes truth is better communicated in metaphors. smile

  36. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    Should those who contend with God instruct him, and disanull his judgment that they may be more rightous than their creator?

  37. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    If you want to speak of G-d, speak in that language. That language is compassionate.

    But if you want to entertain yourself with a battle of wits...leave G-d out of it. Acknowledge your motivation. That's just so you don't make a mockery of what you stand for.

    1. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      A truely wise thing, perhaps we could all strive to be aa little more like a perfect man or woman in this area.

      1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
        Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And you say you don't Preach !!!!

  38. Merlin Fraser profile image78
    Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago

    Please don’t think that I never went in search of God,   probably in a more open minded way than most.

      Did I find him, I think that may depend upon your definition of find.

    Have any of you who challenge my enlightenment ever heard about  Zarathushtra ?

    How about Hezekiah ? 

    Check them out, I may not have found God, but I did find those who invented him.

    1. 0
      SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I didn't expect you back. How about addressing the points I raised in my last post here to you?

      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/44667?p … ost1044392

      I already know the last line I wrote there offended you so you can leave it alone.

      1. Merlin Fraser profile image78
        Merlin Fraserposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If your righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees, you will not see the kingdom of heaven."

          Sir Dent,

          Is that the line you refer to ?  Not offended by it at all, didn't think it was aimed at me specifically being as I am a Scotsman not a Pharisee !

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not that post/ That post was directed to someone else. I put the link to my previous post. Click it to find the right one.

  39. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    Who is 'he' and what steps are you talking about? This ordained concept is funny. So by your perspective only an 'ordained human' has understanding of the nature of Creator or anointing, yes? You know ordained originated from Roman/Greek pagan cults? Hence why I mentioned Catholic school boy...

    LOL. Yes, there's a good Baal priest. The True Spirit in me is not a soft ice cream cone, friend. If you understood, you would not argue against it. Those things S/Paul speaks of are in might and power -beyond human evoking- of wishy washy voodoo woodoo.

    Again with God? God is Baal. Now, speak the Word of Truth and I'll put the Sword of Truth down and embrace you. Until then, I will not relinquish my armor.

    1. Onusonus profile image88
      Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That's an interesting take on things, however it is a true principle that those who speak in the name of God have from the begining, been ordained by God. Were the priests of Aaron, Baal worshipers? Not in the least, but they were ordained by God through their fathers. not by wealth or education or even understanding of worldly things, no matter what they did they were not, nor could they be, authorized servents of the Lord unless they had permission from God himself to ordain, to bless, to serve, and especially to speak on the Lord's behalf.

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Didn't the children of Aaron, the Kohathites, Nadav and Avihu, take a pan, place fire within and put incense upon the fire. They brought before Him, a "strange fire" which they had not been commanded to bring. A fire came out from in front of Him and consumed them; they died...
        Indeed, so then, where is your testimony? After which those priests were killed, the alter consumed by the Consuming fire. Even after when the sons of Levi sinned, He was merciful and did not destroy them fully.

        The Spirit gives according to His desire, not the human translation, perspective or idea of that desire. This is where you false short. Those who bless, do so to those who have a pure heart. Don't the blessings come on the rich or poor equally? Yes. So then, where is your testimony?

        You say on His behalf, yet deny the fullness of that anointing in yourself, why?

        1. Onusonus profile image88
          Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If one were to read the scriptures without faith, then the Bible would be to them nothing more than a good story, but when you read prayerfully and exercising faith, the Lord opens up a divine knowledge to the mind of the individual, if the people of Paul’s day and even the priests in the days of Aaron had believed in the keys to the kingdom of heaven which they held, then the Priesthood would never have been taken away, none the less the world immediately fell into an apostate condition, even a Jewish person can tell you that without the priesthood there could be no temple to worship in. Why then did Isaiah and several others declare that there would come a time in the last days that there should be a temple built up unto the Lord? Were they lying? Do you think that those prophecies will not come to pass?

  40. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    And how could there be a temple without the priesthood? There has been a chain of authority passed down from the days of Adam to our present day, it is an everlasting principle and existed with God from the eternities, the keys of the priesthood have been brought from heaven whenever the Gospel has been sent to mankind,  and whenever it has been administered, it has always been accompanied by the priesthood.

  41. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    Now you ask, where is my testimony. Here it is; I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that by him and through him are all of mankind saved and there is no other way to gain eternal salvation, except by faith and obediance to him. He is the high priest after the order of melchizedek, it is his priesthood and without it nothing can be accomplished towards the building up of Gods kingdom on Earth, and there is no other power on the face of the earth like it, it is the only power that reaches beyond the veil of death, it is the power to bind on Earth the things that are bound in Heaven. I believe that if one is a true believer in Christ, then he must seek to obtain this Holy calling, unless they deny the power of God "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

    1. 0
      Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And yet knowing these things, you still deny Him...

      There is no prophecy to come -the Prophecy did come & all was fulfilled, both law & prophecy. For the Testimony of Y`shua IS the Spirit of Prophecy.

      Have a good day.

      1. Onusonus profile image88
        Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Really? Believing in Jesus is denying him? Wierd........
        I believe all that God has revieled and all that he will reveal, and that he will reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God the almighty, and there is nothing in the scriptures to say that he does not continue to reveal things pertaining to his kingdom to his children.

        1. 0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And again, there is a huge difference between your statement of prophecies earlier and revelation here. They are not the same.

          1. Onusonus profile image88
            Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Well then let me add prophets and prophecy to the list.

        2. 0
          Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Knocks on the screen.
          Hmm, 'believing' in him is completely different from walking with him. You don't deny He is, but neither do angels or demons -and they tremble. So, pretending to walk or follow is really the issue.
          Using your perspective of "how to" v. His perspective of "how should" you. Again, believers most of all have issues with this, because they want to be in control -while proclaiming they don't.
          It is called the mental paradox.
          Perhaps it is time for a mental "paragdym shift".

          Cheers. wink

  42. 59
    Jorlinaposted 6 years ago

    hi,

    Thanks for sharing your comments.
    Drug Rehab

  43. strutzas profile image59
    strutzasposted 6 years ago

    Not only religion must be organized, we must organized ourselves too in order to have a good relation with others and to our GOD.

  44. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 6 years ago

    Why have religion at all?

  45. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 6 years ago

    Valerie, did you get a rebirth? Welcome back to our land of sins wink

  46. Jerami profile image79
    Jeramiposted 6 years ago

    (Q) wrote:
    How about the Christians chasing the starving children away to get all the food from Jesus? Get real, Jerami.


    Valerie F wrote   
    Wha??? Where did you see this happen?

    Jerami says ... what??  Where did you see this happen?

 
working