jump to last post 1-11 of 11 discussions (23 posts)

Another question that's hard to answer

  1. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    There can be no doubt as to who Jesus is talking to through out  the 23 chapter of Matthew. And there can be no doubt as to what timeframe these things were to transpire.

    Matt.23 v. 13 "But woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men, for ye neither go in yourselves ; neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in".
    V33 "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell".
    V34 “Wherefore behold (listen)   "I"   send unto you prophets, and wise men and scribes; and some of them ye shall crucify, and some of them ye shall scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city".
    V36 Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation.
         There should be no doubt who is Jesus speaking to here?
         Not some generation of people 2000 years in the future! Jesus was speaking to those standing right there; ,right then!
       
       And shortly after hearing Jesus saying this, Peter James, John and Andrew ask the Lord Privately,
       "WHEN ARE THESE THINGS GOING TO BE"
     
    Matt. 24:9   .. Then shall they deliver YOU  up to be afflicted , and shall kill YOU…
          24:15    "When YE  therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet…"
          24:21   "For THEN shall be the great tribulation, such was not since the beginning of the world to THIS time, NO NOR EVER SHALL BE."    (that indicates a passing of time to come after the fulfillment of this prophesy)
           
         Matt. 24:34   Verily I say unto; THIS generation shall not pass till all THESE things be fulfilled.
         Jesus is not speaking of all prophesy being fulfilled but only these things that he mentions in this PRIVATE conversation.

        Why do Christians believe that Jesus was speaking to some future generation?

  2. kess profile image60
    kessposted 7 years ago

    Jesus was talking about the end of time, or the time of the end of this age,the age of mixture of good and evil,

    so therefore all prophecies will be fulfilled at the accomplishment of this age......

    There of course would be a generation alive at that time.. and it would apply to them.

    We are still obviously within the age of good and Evil so therefore the end have not come.....

    What is the question that is so hard to answer???

    Christians are famous for not knowing anything and being wrong about the things they claim to be sure about...

    "Woe to scribes and pharisees" means today ... woe to you "christians"

    Find truth in this statement and you will begin to know all things....

    .....and yes they were standing there then just as they standing here NOW...

  3. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    kess  said 
    Jesus was talking about the end of time, or the time of the end of this age,the age of mixture of good and evil,
    ====
    Jerami said   These four disciples ask concerning the end of the world but Jesus did not answer that question.
    ===========================
    kess  said
      so therefore all prophecies will be fulfilled at the accomplishment of this age......
      Woe to scribes and pharisees" means today ... woe to you "christians"

    ====
    Jerami ....But that is not what he said, but an interpretation.
    Jesus continually said  Woe unto YOU when looking THOSE people in the face.  I believe that had he been talking about some other group of people he would have said so.
    Find truth in this statement and YOU will begin to know all things.... 
       Had you been standing there at this time, and Jesus had been looking you in the face when he said these things to you??.. You would have had no doubt as to who Jesus was speaking to.

       Can you imagine being there 2000 years ago and hearing all of what Jesus said to you?
       What would you have said if someone told you that "Bah… don't worry about it, Jesus is saying this to some generation that will be born 2000 years in the future. These things are not going to happen to YOU?"

  4. getitrite profile image81
    getitriteposted 7 years ago

    In order to agree with your conclusion, we would have to assume that the version of the bible that you are using has been accurately translated. 

    Maybe the Greek word for "generation" should have been translated as "race". 

    This would mean that the second coming of Christ could still have not happened yet.

    1. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I always use the JKV and New KJV whenever pondering questions concerning Prophesy. Because each word does hold much importence.
       
         getitrite said   Maybe the Greek word for "generation" should have been translated as "race". 
       
         Jerami asks ,,, Do you really believe that is a possability?
        I don't.

    2. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Do you have a problem with the posability of the second coming having already happened?

        If there is such of a thing as a second coming there will be a time when it will be said to have happened in the past!

        When that time comes there will be a false religion that says that it hasn't.

         How would anyone know if it has or not???

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
        ceciliabeltranposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        have you read the Gospel of Judas...Jesus was very very creepy strange. But then he's describing the 21st century.

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I've seen a few TV shows that mentioned a few things that were written in Judus, Mary and Thomas but haven't read any of these other books yet.  It is about time that I do read them.

          Would be happy to hear what ya got to say about what is written in it.

            I've spent most of my attention on misinterpretations of what is actually written in the KJV.

             I am a believer but not in misinterpretations.

      2. getitrite profile image81
        getitriteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I'm quite sure you have scripture to offer as unambiguous evidence of this false religion.

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Only scriptural.  But since we are discussing interpretation of scripture that is where my answer must come from.
          But I will be describing it from an analytical view

             If the second coming did in fact happen as it is written that Jesus spoke it. In that generation.
             John received the Revelation in 94 AD approx 60 years after Jesus died. The beast (False religion) mentioned in Rev 13 rose to power after the sixth seal was opened. The multitude was seen in heaven. This would have to be after the souls that were to be the first fruits unto the lord were redeemed from among man. 
              It is after this that the false religion is seen rising up as described in Rev 13.
            And it is giver 42 (prophetic) months to blaspheme the Lord.  This false religion could not get away with it unless it denies the first coming having happened or it would be recognized for what it is. The religion that it establishes would have to be closely similar to what which the popular opinion was at the time. For it is written that if possible it would fool even the very elect.

            I doubt that I explained well enough but what I am trying to say is what is actually written in scripture if a person took the time to analyze what is actually written. Instead of blindly believing false interpretations of scripture.

             It is also written that this (blindly believing lies) will happen.

          1. lucieanne profile image80
            lucieanneposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            So just out of curiosity, how old would that have made John 60 years after the death of Jesus?

            1. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I am not aware of his age.  If we assumed that he was younger than Jesus was, because of the life expectancy at that time John would have been slightly less than 90 years old.

                I read someplace that the prison on Patmos was closed down in 96AD. John returned and wrote at least one if not two other books that are included in the bible?
                I'll see if I can find that info. again.

  5. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    If anyone has read Matthew C. 23 and C. 24 recently I would much appreciate it if you could explain to me in which verses does it indicate in the slightest that Jesus was not speaking to those standing before him.
       
    Also  When Jesus told the high priest in the temple the night before his crucifixion that "Thou hast said; nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter you shall see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.  (MATT. 26:64)

      Is there anything written in this verse that indicates that Jesus was talking to some Priest 2000 years in the future?
     
      Matt 16:24  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the      SON OF MAN     coming in his kingdom.

      I have never read anything in scripture that indicates that Jesus was not talking about those people that he was talking to.

  6. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I had never read Judas cause I always doubted that he wrote it.  When would he have had time?

  7. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Matt. 23:34   “Wherefore behold (listen)   "I"   send unto you prophets, and wise men and scribes; and some of them ye shall crucify, and some of them ye shall scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city".

      That is what Jesus said to the Pharisees in the temple

      Then a few minuets later the disciples ask him;  when is that goina happen??
     
       And then Jesus toldum about a bunch of stuff that they were going to have to endure before the end (Of that Hebrew Nation)

      And then the church started turning this story over and over like they was stirring marshmallows into a cup of hot chocolate.

  8. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago

    Jerami, I am with you there. It has been fulfilled. One thing overlooked is if it had not, the temple would still exist today and we would not have full access to the KOH in us, not to mention the word in us or available abundant life (meaning fully restored to the place of adam -if not greater). People WANT to believe in 'end time' events to hold on to their religion/babylon mentality. Because if they let go are scared of falling 10,000 feet to the dirt below....

    1. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Every time I open the bible looking for just about anything else...  Evidence of this is staring me in the face.
        Today I opened to Hebrews and right there   Heb. 1:2 

        "Hath in  “these”     …last days ..."
        How many times do the disciples make comments like this one?

        They most assuredly believed that they were living in
      "The Last Days" ..."  I just can not believe that whatever this phrase "The Last Days" is referring to, did in fact happen when Jesus said that they would.
         I am also quite sure that if the disciples had misunderstood what Jesus was talking about; Jesus would have corrected that misunderstanding.

         "Verily I say unto you; THIS generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."
         
         At the very least ...  We need to rethink what is being described here.

  9. Timothy Donnelly profile image60
    Timothy Donnellyposted 7 years ago

    Jerami, consider this: The Bible was recorded for the benefit of all who read it, and all who hear it. Scriptures are meant to “liken unto ourselves”, so that we may be able to apply its wisdom in our age. Chronological physical matters and dealings are more likely to be just that – a history of events transpired. Even this type of record can be learned from. The Spiritual matters spoken of by God and His prophets are on a different level. They are profound to the degree that they utilize parable and pun in a record of EVERLASTING GOSPEL, to benefit ALL that are exposed and “give ear” to its message. Some undoubtedly more than others because they choose to HEARKEN to and observe the precepts of what they hear. Still others benefit because they have such a degree of faith which causes them not to be compelled to bedraggle, spurn, or resist the counsel of the Spirit of the Lord. Let me make a quick example: The parable of The Good Samaritan is an account of an event past – but much more; it is an ensample of Godly virtue demonstrated by and through a person who may not have even had privilege to hear the Word of God as recorded in scripture, but was nevertheless attune to the Holy Spirit, and acted accordingly. The Samaritan’s blessings for his kind act were certainly never fully realized in his mortal life, but he has surely gained a measure of inheritance to the Kingdom of God, as his act of compassion was truly in line with the teachings of the Saviour of mankind. The Holy Bible is rife full of accounts AND parables, both MEANT for the benefit of us in this day, and in the days to come. If this helps in the least, you may want to take a few more minutes of your time to also read, meekly consider, and surely benefit from this RELEVANT humble testament, found at: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN … 82620aRCRD

  10. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Timothy Donnelly said ...The Bible was recorded for the benefit of all who read it,
    ====
    Jerami said ...  Let me first say that the following is my opinion not intending to argue.
    Jerami thinks ...  Matthew, Mark, Luke and probably John were books that were being circulated around 49 thru 68 AD for the benefit of those that were not witnesses of the events of the crucifixion.

       I would say that they were first and foremost written "TO Those People"  that were reading them at the time. 
       Those believers were the intended target of the books. 

       These writings are inspirational yet today but we should never forget who they were written to. Who were the first to read them?

       For the next 200 years these and many, many other books were written that were commonly held sacred among the small groups of believers.  Very few if any of these groups of believers had access to all of these popular books.

        In 326 the newly formed universal church accept very few of these many writings as sacred.  At the end of much heavy debate, Only those books were accepted into the canon that most suited the Churches theology.

       At that time the church declares that .......
    "Only These writings" are the Inspired word of God"   
       Any Christian group that did not accept this declaration as fact were soon done away with.

      Thus; these "Other" inspired writings was done away with also.
    ============================================
    Timothy Donnelly said They are profound to the degree that they utilize parable and pun in a record of EVERLASTING GOSPEL
    ==========
       The Gospel may be everlasting,,,  But prophey is not.

       Think about this..  Prophesy can never be everlasting.
      The Gospel yes..  Prophesy not.

       I don't intend to be rude but just think about it??

    1. Timothy Donnelly profile image60
      Timothy Donnellyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Jerami, I agree with everything in your most recent post. Let me say that certain prophesies may sometimes transpire bit by bit, but most certainly will be completely fulfilled – yea, every whit, just as certain as it is true that the Lord our God, even the Resurrected Son of our Eternal Heavenly Father Most High today lives.
      My good man, concerning your understanding of the compiled and Canonized books of the Bible, may I say that it is with comfort that I am grateful for the "restored" Gospel of Jesus Christ, as alluded to in Isaiah 29: 11, 12, 14, for truly another account and testament of Jesus Christ has been heard and RECORDED BY COMMANDMENT, and preserved for the purposes of the Lord to testify and speak as like a voice from the dust of the earth. This I personally testify to you is even what is known as the Book of Mormon, and I can say with a heart full of joy that this is in support of the Holy Bible and other Holy Writ, be that what they may.

  11. Jerami profile image78
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Timothy Donnelly  said   ...may I say that it is with comfort that I am grateful for the "restored" Gospel of Jesus Christ, as alluded to in Isaiah 29: 11, 12, 14,
    ===

      I just read these verses and would have to say that the book spoken of in these verses is being compared as being like the visions that the wise will NOT understand.

       In fact the visions are not to be understood as if they were a book that has been sealed. 
       The best I can understand these verses are saying that they will never be understood. These verses are talking about the visions. They are not talking about a book.
       
      And this chapter is talking to the Hebrew nation (Only) that was alive back in the seventh century BC. 

    We need to read what is actually written in scripture and not what we want to see

    1. Timothy Donnelly profile image60
      Timothy Donnellyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Jeremi, be careful you don't become a legalist, because then you will have trouble ascertaining Spirit. In any case, may God bless your curiosity with a determination to search the scriptures for the answers you need in order to fill your void with faith and resolution.

      1. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I appreciate your blesings.

          But to be honest I have  my hunger satisfied. 
          About ten years ago I prayed for understanding.
          My hunger was filled..  It tasted sweet in my mouth, but then it turned bitter after I had digested it.

           Many of my questions are intender as an appatiser to others.

           I think that in the past year I have laid out a banquet.
        But from a distance it smells like what everyone else is serving.
           And besides...  Everybody already got their own table laid out for supper.

 
working