I sometimes think that the "real" sin in "original" sin, was not the disobedience, but the running away and hiding and being fearful of remaining naked, vulnerable and humble. Come on, give it some thought. I don't think it had anything to do with knowledge of good and evil. God doesn't seem too hesitant to share his knowledge in other situations, so why here? I think God created this really cool fruit tree, and he wanted to walk the garden whenever he wanted and grab a piece. Like me, the other day. I bought a box of really scrumptious New York Cheesecake from Trader Joe's, and my twenty six year old stepson and his friends ate the entire box at 2 a. m., and then left the empty box in the "frig" figuring I wouldn't put two and two together and think maybe a burglar broke into the house and took nothing but my favorite cheesecake.
Well, so if Adam and Eve could have just sat there and said, "Hey, big GuyGal, what can we tell ya? We ate the fruit. Did we do something wrong? Of course, we heard your request, but didn't think it was that big of a deal. You're not upset with us, are you?" Now, that would have saved us all a lot of grief, and we'd still be walking around naked! What do you think? Come on, don't get so weird on me. Go with it.
original sin is still present and that is seing in double good / evil.
Adam did not sin though he too saw in double, he was doing God's will, by subjecting himself and all His descendent to death that they may attain perfection.
Without seeing the nature of death they cannot know life in its fullness.
So what did your son and his friends say . . . and did you forgive them?
"Hey, that's really good cheesecake!!"
I said, "Yea, it sure is!!"
My relationship with stepson is "tricky" for lots of obvious reasons. Cheesecake costs all of $7.00. Heck of deal even when you don't get any!! So I bought another box and told him in private that the cheesecake was not for general consumption by the neighborhood. Tried to say it with a wink and smile! BUT, I'm not sure if I have forgiven him, and I really like your question about it. Perhaps the most profound question and or comment on here so far!
Gee thanks . . . I'm rarely profound. (On the other hand "what would Jesus DO?". as they say).
I'm sure it is a bit 'tricky". I think you handled it well.
You didn't say if they were naked.
No, they were not naked, but I wonder if they are when I'm not there! A lot of activity goes on there when I'm not around and even when I am around!
Well, I like how you keyed in on such an important question rather than getting lost in some of the ? whatever that other stuff is. Not sure it is theology.
Another friend suggested I buy two boxes of cheesecake next time and just tell him that one is for him and his friends and KEEP OUT OF MY BOX!! I got very defensive with my friend for some strange reason and gave all these reasons why that wouldn't work!! I started laughing about it today. A great idea. I'm just cheap!! Thank God God is not cheap!
what do men do when they are alone and bored?
For me, and textually, it seems that the moment of sin was in Eve's heart. She took the apple, but after commiting the sin of wanting to be equal with God (being wise). The eating of the apple was more contratual in that her thoughts became actions. When that happened and Adam ate the apple with her, they together brought condemnation on their decendents. Hiding from God was a recognition of their wrong and proof of their shame.
At least this is the way I view it.
Before a sin of this magnitude can be determined, understanding what sin is must first be addressed. The question must be asked, what could children of God possibly do that was so bad that God would turn His back on them. If we look at this, then we must look at how we would react to our own children if they did something we did not like. Obviously, if it takes a lot for us to turn our back on our children. This being the case, how much more would it take for God, who is defined as being Perfect Love, to do something like this. The answer is obvious, He did not see His Creation as sinful. It was them that perceived their act as sinful. Their guilt was so defined, they had to leave the condition of the Garden and go where their guilt could be measured.
God's Creation act, they do not react. Before the mistake or sin, Adam and Eve did not know what reacting was. When they were tempted to react instead of act, a feeling arose in them which was so unfamiliar they moved into a condition they found comfortable, which was outside of the Garden. This uncomfortable feeling is defined as fear.
In the story in Genesis the couple learned to blame someone else for their reaction to temptation. The temptation was a lie. The reaction to the lie was the sin, which was fear of punishment, and not punishment itself. Instead of accepting responsibility, God became the scapegoat. He continues to be viewed as the reason for the the couple being forced out of the Garden. It is the reaction to temptation that is the original sin. We either act with Love, or react to temptation. Between these two, in reality, there is nothing else.
Thinkking about a recipe for cheesecake and instead God came up with the recipe for Angel Food and Devils Food cake! Sorry! I don't know if there is a before and after in that dimension. BUT I love the question and all the images that pop up in my silly brain
Actually, the first sin was Lucifer being lifted up with pride.Thinking he could be like God.
I've wondered about that bit. Seemed like an extreme punishment for eating an apple, which doesn't figure largely in today's calendar of crime.
Disobedience might have been the real issue, but then, why would we have been given free will, if not to get sassy and use it now and then? Ditto intelligence (the knowledge of good and evil?)
Maybe the very first sin was choosing evil over good. Maybe that's really the only sin. And we have those choices so often in our lives: practically every day.
we were given free will because if a person "chooses" to worship you, its feels better then mindless robots doing your bidding. More power, I think.
What always happens to these forums? Start out with a good question and get sidelined to fruitcake recipes.Sheeeeesh.
"real" original sin: Choice [Necessity].
Free Will and Choice are not the same.
Choice only has power within necessity.
Free will is power without necessity.
Choice is sin, Free Will is Grace.
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