if you commit suicide will you be sent to hell or will God show mercy and grace to you?
In many cases, suicide is committed when one is not mentally stable. I think it's important to do the math on this and figure it out for ourselves. There is too much about intent and what led up to it to consider, but in one's heart, they should know for themselves where they are in all this.
People have preached from the pulpit at funerals of people who committed suicide and there is a huge range of disturbing reports. It's all nonsense. It's between that person and God, and no one else. Opinions don't matter.
only if you open a thread 16 hours new no posts, hubs or followers.
Oh and no avatar
Guarantee to go to Hell which does not exist
And please do not lessen the tremendous illness of suicide by mocking it with some disrespectful statement.
I am flagging this thread so here, take my hand and walk with me to nowhere, I'm happy to take you there, wait that is not fair, since I disrespect your already clearly about somewhere. Yes.
I will add then shut up with no sarcasm welcome to hubpages, hope you give us a hub soon, you hub I'll read
But dude, not this concept, OK?
I wasn't serious about reporting just pissed off
But we're cool now,
By the way I am Kimberly
I'm sure your thrilled.
Carry on. Nothing really matters when the day is done.
Hi Daniel, miss ya
I think it is a sin. And my husband killed himself 9/16/04. Whether it is a sin against god, only god and Bucky know that answer.
Was it a sin against his 9 year son- YES!
Was it a sin against his marriage- YES!
Was it a sin against his wife- YES!
Was it a sin against humanity, and all the things life stands for- YES!
Respectfully, as a believer, do you believe your husband is in hell now?
I do know how to even answer that.........
What gives with this line of questioning? Are you trying to be funny? Looking to be rude? What?
A "believer?" A believer in what?
And what does my beliefs have to do with suicide? I do not think my belief's should be the issue. Are you telling us that you think whether or not "I believe" determines the fate of all suicides?
Oh, and respectfully yours of course.
With an answer.
It's just a question based on religious beliefs as to what happens to people who commit suicide.
No, your god does, doesn't he?
You have wasted your time with the wrong person. I don't really care how or what you think of my God.
It is not relevant to the issue, therefore it does not matter.
You're the one who brought it up and now won't answer a question about it. Is there some reason why you went into great detail about it and now say it's not relevant? Were you just seeking to get attention or something? Seems very odd.
But, if that's going to be your attitude, then I won't ask you about it anymore. I'll just assume from now on you're saying things just to get attention.
I am a Christian. I don't believe in afterlife, once you're dead, you're dead. You reap what you sow here on earth.
prettydarkhorse, I don't want to offend, but as a true christian who reads the Bible, then you would know that their is indeed an afterlife. Just a fact of true knowledge.
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
There is an afterlife.
@ snagerries. I am so sorry if yo9u have been thinking of committing suicide. This is hard thing to deal with, and many people struggle with the thoughts. I stuggled a while back with them , but I know that suicide won't fix the problems or make them better. Hang on and know that if you reach out for help, it will be there. Suicide is a sin against yourself and God, because you were made in His image. He loves you very much, and wants to have a relationsip with you. Suicide only hurts, it never heals.
God shows mercy and grace to you every day, by giving you a chance to have a real and loving relationship with the One that created you. Once you make a choice, the consequences for that are irreversible. He doesn't want you to go to hell, snagerries. He wants you in heaven. But life is such a precious thing to throw away, murdering yourself isn't the answer. Read in the Bible, I remember when I was having thoughts of suicide that I had to remember that it wouldn't help, it would only hurt, how it would affect others, where I would go when I die, and who I am in Christ.
If someone you knew has committed suicide, again, I am deeply sorry. Again, it was their choice. As for the mental dissabilities argument, only God knows how to handle that, but people, no matter the brain activity, know if they are trying to kill themselves. they always have a choice. I chose not to. nothing is that bad as to throw the gift of life back at the creator. Blame evil for the way things are, but please don't get mad at God. Freewill is the other gift, on choice. It's up to you. I would encourage you to read the Bible, pray and get counseling if you are struggling with these thoughts or the death of someone you knew. It will help.
(for those who don't share my beliefs, please don't go and flame me for sharing what I believe. She asked, I answered. It's not intolerant to state what you believe. what is intolerant is to not allow someone to speak what they believe. Thank you.
No no my friend.. I am very happy person on this earth and I started this thread just to know people's thought on this. I dont want to commit suicide Then where will my hubpages account go hehe
Hey - I am not flaming you - but there is a biiiiig difference between "a fact of true knowledge" and "what you believe".
You believe it - fine. Kudos to you. That does not make it true knowledge or fact. It is in fact - baseless, irrational belief - nothing more.
And she did not ask. She stated her belief and you corrected her by telling her she is wrong - as a "true Christian" reads the bible.
when I was referring to the "she asked", Mark, the she I was referring to was Snagerries. but that's all right. and since prettydarkhorse says she is christian then I can show her how what she says she believs is not backed up in the Bible.
and I understand why you responded, and it's okay. I exspect it. But just as I said that it is true knowledge, you just told me that it is an irrational belief. I believe (know) your wrong, but that's me. and it's everyone's choice on what they believe. I just choose to tell it like it is, just like you. Course we can round and round abou this, but then that would like hijacking the thread, and that's not ethical, no matter what you believe. Thanks Mark.
Oh - my pleasure - I certainly understand why you need to fool your self that "true knowledge" and "facts" are the same as "what you believe" - It just makes reasonable conversation impossible.
The incontrovertible facts of the matter is that there is no heaven or hell. These are proven facts.
In any case - you are the one hijacking the thread - again. And then telling me not to. True Christian? Yup - sure looks like it. Not very ethical is it? To jump in and share your irrational beliefs instead of dealing with the original question about suicides going to hell?
"The incontrovertible facts of the matter is that there is no heaven or hell. These are proven facts. wink"
Just curious, when was that proven and how?
Irony. Do u speak it, troll? See u dint kwestion the kristian dun u? Just kurious - why is that?
So your answer is to not answer, well done.
But to answer you no one can prove what they think or believe.
You said "The incontrovertible facts of the matter is that there is no heaven or hell. These are proven facts. wink"
Where are the incontrovertible facts?
I have officially quit waiting for "the incontrovertible facts" you previously mentioned.
I will chalk this up to a complete waste of time.
"the incontrovertible facts"
Pardon me, Mark, for taking so long to reply. I was not hijacking the thread to simply respond to her original question. Seems like your the only one that had a problem with it. thank you.
Mark, I would think that there is definitely rational belief; called "It makes all the sense in the world." and is very substantial lasting for a very substantial amount of time. ..like weighting factors.
Suicide is between the person and God. I believe that God's mercy and not placing burdens on One more than he can handle applies here. Suicide due to a drug trip is a sin; suicide to escape excruciating pain or escalating mental anguish is up to God to decide.
I am not a christian but I agree what you said just now..
Hey snag have you tried suicide? Have you met your God? Have you visited this Hell you seem almost like you have a membership to?
I apologize if you have the first, but I have a question;
What could you possibly expect to gain from your question, short of wanting to to be an instigator or love reaction reflecting attention.
We all need attention, it makes us feel liked, needed, even important at times.
You are not in any way misunderstanding me
I ask you, do you truly think there is an answer to this, and if so, do you hold it, or do you think one of us do?
What do we think, you want to know yet you already did. You, as many know there is no for sure known answer and a million theory's for answers. This your quest to hear from us.
OK cool. I know nothing about you but admit to forming an opinion from your thread. To me and this thought you start, tells me you are selfish with no regard for the surrounding aspects of suicide, and mock religion, that many cherish and mock those who don't even believe by suggesting an answer lies in religious beliefs.
Clearly I am no expert but my answer to you is please don't do this again, and please go write a hub, if you desire even on this.
Therefore I will not read, but I suspect that doesn't matter.
Just my thoughts, not directly meant to insult you or judge you, though it sounds that way.
It's the only way I know to articulate the answer you seek. There isn't one and then there is a million.
It depends. If you slit your throat, or your wrist, or shoot yourself or what ever the means, if in your last dying seconds, you confess your suicide to Jesus and ask His forgiveness, I believe that forgiveness is granted instantly, therefore you would go to heaven. Since nobody has ever returned from the grave to establish this as fact, we have to accept this on FAITH!
So - u agree - believers who kill themselves go to hell - unless they repent mid way through? Which is 98% never happened, as proven by FAITH!
And as no one has ever come back from hell you accept this by FAITH!
Wow! only 2% of Christian suicides go to heaven - the rest are burning in eternal pain. Wot a luvin god.
Mark God doesn't send anyone to hell that has been their choice if they choose to follow God them they are saying they choose to follow His rules and like any other law abiding situation if you break the rules you pay the price.Gods plan was that all men went to heaven none perish but man doesn't always listen to God and so he does what he wants and as God never forces His ways on anyone the choices we make are our own thus the results are bought about by our own hand
I think that, maybe, I hope!! the answer might be that every body that doesn't want to live in harmony don't get to live on the same topical island that I am goina live on ?????
Mark, the goats are separated from the sheep simply by those who think the documentation of the life of Jesus and His teaching are beautiful. The goats don't. Goats battle for themselves until their demise. The fact that goats don't think that docu of Jesus is beautiful doesn't matter; they are destined for hell anyway and won't be with us very long.
That sounds like loop holes in the IRS code. The same sick mentality goes for "good Christians" who decide to get a Vegas marriage, have their fling for the weekend, then have the marriage nullified on Monday morning to make it all "legal" before the law and God. Because on Monday they "repented."
How does "God" not see what's really going on in either scenario? Who are we trying to fool?
They're fooling themselves, but that's obviously not working so well, either.
I still think reckless self endangerment is the way to go. Of course - you might enjoy it enough to want to start living again.
That is the risk.
Angry, suicidal drug addicts who spread AIDS knowingly. You mean like that?
Yeah, it's out there, all right. So completely and utterly sad. Life could be so much more. Trouble is, that when some of these people live through it, the damage is already done and then they get to live the life of regret.
No - I was more thinking about helping our Christian cousins avoid the eternal damnation thing.
People who kill themselves have obviously had enough. Why is that selfish?
I'm not sure there's help for that, Mark. They are all sending each other to hell already. I'm sure God is good with that, because they each claim to know what he wants...
Technically, Marcus, you are the poster child for "reckless endangerment"...
Hang gliding or jumping from a plane, rock climbing/repelling (my personal favorite) is not reckless nor is it suicidal. In fact, it is fun. The euphoria of being suspended by airstream from 30,000 feet is something you'll never quite understand until you do it. Nor is standing on top of a mountain face, after a ten hour climb, looking out over the planets curve. It defies logic, reason; super-supersedes any sensation you have ever had....
Really? How incredibly condescending of you. How was the blindfolded, mono wheeling, tight roping over rocky, shark infested water with the intention of killing yourself and fooling the invisible Super Daddy?
My personal preferences were 165 mph around Donnington Park, or 60 mph down Mont Ventoux. But - you probably wouldn't understand unless you have the balls I have..
Dear me. Religionists huh? Jokes. Do you speak it?
Here is another one. One of those that I would hate to be in their shoes.
How do you pronounce your (name) know les or noels. Just curious.
It might depend on which god you're talking about. Seppuku actually saved warriors from shame and allowed them to die a "good death" which was the first and foremost concern in Bushido.
Committing suicide is not about going to hell. its leaving what you have come for unfinished.
I think that sins are the ideas put in place by organized religions (some) for the purpose of keeping their followers in line. If you do not believe in sin, then sucicide would not be a sin for the individual. It seems to me that if you believe in this sort of thing, then the taking of life, any living thing in god's kingdom would be wrong.
How about coming right back to the earth and plane level and having to do it all over again!
Good ol' reincarnation. It isn't worth having to be reborn instantly in the same sort of conditions'.
Based on Biblical teaching (based on the bible itself, not on some religious creed or book of discipline) I don't believe so. In order to commit sin you must first realize that what your doing is in fact a sin. You must be accountable and in your right mind. Jesus states in the bible that unless we become as little children we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, meaning they were pure and without sin. Now we all know we can't be as sinlessly perfect as little children but we should strive to be, decerning right from wrong. It's a proven fact that in order to commit suicide the individual must not be in their right mind. Physcologists and phychiatrists agree that in order to override the inherent human sense of self preservation required to commit the act of suicide an individual must be considered insane. Therefore, if an individual is 'insane' he or she cannot be of 'right mind' and thus cannot be responsible for their actions.
That might seem to be the case to outsiders, but people don't realize that suicide only happens when someone feels so at the end of their rope that there is no other option. of course it effects other people but you can't make a blanket statement about all suicides.
i lost one of my best friends to suicide 2 years ago. i understand why, but i miss him every day. he wasn't selfish, he was very sick and out of hope.
I think it's one of the most devastating ordeals to go through. I had a 14 year old nephew commit suicide. I can't help but wonder what could possibly drive someone to young over the abyss.
I agree. Suicide is not selfish for everyone. My brother committed suicide years ago. He was the least selfish person I knew, yet he was tired of the struggle. He had no children and to this day I am deeply saddenedandmiss him very much. As much as two other brothers who died from medical problems.
That depends on which religion you follow, if any at all, and the intent behind killing yourself.
This is a pretty heavy topic for the hangout forum. Even so, I had a friend that committed suicide a number of years ago. He had very strong faith in God and was just overcome by psychological factors. If you're looking for what religious teachers would tell you, Martin Luther was quoted saying that a suicidal person overcome by despair is akin to a person overcome by bandits in the woods and killed.
It is the act of a desperate human being who feels they are bereft of options. That one act haunts those left behind forever. Whether or not it is sin remains an unanswered question. Whether or not it is justified is completely unquestionable. It is not. There are ALWAYS options.
I agree completely. It is a sad day when we no longer see any other options. I've been there numerous times, but I made it through. Suffering is mostly a result of our thinking. If we can learn how to accept reality for what it is, be at peace with ourselves, we no longer have to suffer. It's taken most of my life to learn this.
In order to overcome the idea that there are no more options, one has to become curious about what's next. What's beyond this suffering. Curiosity will help the mind find relief knowing that there is no end, only a continuation. If we can get a hold of the idea that "Plan B can be wonderful" curiosity continues on, knowing there are good things ahead. We find peace in ourselves, and the torment subsides gradually, and we find that reality is okay. It was just our thinking that was askew.
It doesn't make sense that if there is a God that he would want us to suffer. It's our doing that we suffer, not his. He is okay with us regardless of whether or not we are okay with ourselves.
To get to the climax point of attempting suicide, whether successful or not, obviously a person gets down to some serious moral questions but if life is really that difficult, at that point of actually making an effort to die immediately, I sincerely doubt that god comes into it. The idea of god is something humans use to help them get through life. If life is not worth living, god has failed, the onus on him.
The instinct to commit suicide is caused by many factors, both subjective and otherwise. It is the result of a very complex mental state which differs from person to person. Whether it is a sin or not largely depends on the faith of individuals
I think it is a sin. It has to be, it cannot be justified any other way
But in most cases, suicide is a result of mental illness. Not being in one's natural/normal state of mind.
It's not a sin to be bipolar or schizophrenic is it? If it isn't, then the mental state of mind to cause one to commit suicide is similar.
It's just not worth losing precious life. I don't think we will be punished but probably be placed in the same journey again....
Suicide is a sin, especially if you are blowing other people up in the process.
Is it a sin to kill a murderer?
What if one gives up his life to protect innocent others and such is the necessary action to prevent further murder by others?
Yea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! taking other people that don't wanta go yet ???? Yea !!!! Wrong!!!!!! .
For a believer is it ? wrong to want to go home arly except for how it is going to hurt others ????
How much is that going to hurt others YOU will never know till it is TTOOooo Late?
Don't be a Chicken tough it out !!!! You be sutprise how quickly things can turn around!!!!!!
Happyness is an attitude and you can have any kinda attitude that ya want too !!! Caint nobody else set your attitude but TOU !!!!
As much as I wish was dead, and no matter how much I hate the way the world is.
I know we are here for a reason.
What ever a persons deed is they won't leave before it is done.
Look at the people who get in accidents and walk away with out a scratch,but you have that person try and commit suicide and made to lay as a vegetable for the rest of there lives.
Only God gives and takes life.
And believe me I am one lost individual wish i was dead every day and have tried a few times but here I am. Why?
Everyone is here for a reason but life is too precious and should not be wasted.
I agree a person still wonders why?
Why am I here?
Why so much pain?
Why can't I leave without feeling guilty?
Is there really a God and why do we have so many the world is confused or is it just me?
Some people say that suicide is not a sin. It's an act of despair in the face of overwhelming physical or psychological pain.
losthere-great questions worth investigating. How much time do you give these thoughts for self reflection? what answers have you come up with? It's an ongoing process...
Life is the cheapest thing on the planet...it grows everywhere...all the time and at a cost of nothing.
A sin? I dunno, but is some countries it's a crime, punishable by death. Figure that one out.
Sin is a religious term that applies to only religious followers.
Suicide is just simply stupid action caused by lack of knowledge and wisdom of life.
Suicide is cowardice.If you are strong enough to face life's problems you may consider a solution.I personally feel people committing suicide shouldn't be shown any mercy at all.
If you end up dead, its not punishable. But if you fail, its a crime!
I agree with snagerries. You get this life only once, that is, if you don't believe in re-birth.Precious coz if you are not any use to yourself, u can always be there for others to help them in need,
Nobody knows whether reincarnation is there or not but life is the most precious one and should not be ended in rage..
How does suicide equate with rage? It is an act of 'giving up' . Of complete hopelessness. If you have never experienced that, wonderful for you. But, not everyone is this fortunate. For some people, the alternative to life (death) is appealing because they do not feel they can bear the deep emotional pain that wraps around their heart and soul...suffocating the very life out of them. They simply cannot bear to go on. Have you ever seen the movie Sophie's Choice?
So let's say you become mentally unstable at some point in your life. So unstable you take your own life. This happens to other people. It's real.
However, since you will not show mercy, let no mercy be shown for you in your hardships and changes in life that you cannot control. That's what you're advocating.
Is that some sort of curse Daniel?
Let's assume some friend of yours is in trouble he can't tackle.Would u just leave him? I take it that u'll help him till u succeed.Won't that give some meaning to YOUR life?
Anyway counseling sure helps mentally unstable persons.It's not that there is no way out.
We only curse ourselves. I'm not capable of cursing another, I only do it to me if I try to curse someone else.
My point may have been a little emphatic, but the idea is that if we ourselves would need mercy for our own source of unrest, whatever that is, then hopefully we will extend the same mercy for others, as you suggest, therefore, allowing God (if he exists) to do the same.
Until you've been at the end of the rope, it's a lot easier to make assessments based on never experiencing it. Once experiencing something, you begin to understand and connect with others who have also faced these issues. Understanding brings a certain kind of peace of its own, along with mercy.
I'm NOT trying to justify suicide. But I do understand what it's like. Suicide is the worst form of selfishness and leaves behind angry, wounded victims. However, that said, I don't think we have the ability to judge on an "evil factor" to what degree a suicide may be. And we're not talking suicide bombers, we're talking people who are unstable enough to take their own life. It's less about sin, and more about suffering so much they think it's okay to leave others to suffer as well. It's not good. However, mercy is one way of bringing people back from this brink. Understanding is even better.
@Kimberly: I'm here, dear! Just trying to get through a lot of stuff in life! Drop me a line. Catch up.
According to the religionist's book - the bible, suicide is indeed a mortal sin for all believers.
Suicide is murder. Self murder. All murderers go to hell.
"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" 1 Jn. 3:15
So any Christian that commits self murder (and of course you cannot repent and be forgiven if you are dead) burns in hell for all eternity.
Reckless self endangerment seems to be the best approach.
No Christian would do that - so that is fine.
Thats very fine Mark.
(But who is a Christian? 'born' 'reborn' 'converted' etc etc etc?)
Thats a very interesting question sunseven. Let us wait for another reply.
No idea. They all say they are the real Christians and all the others are lying.
Your guess is as good as mine.
I believe in human kind.I would be the same person to every other person.We seem to have created so many barriers we don't even know how many kinda 'creatures' survive on this Earth.
Ok can't take no more.
I am new here and if god is right how about the new Book of Genesis Illustrated by R. Crumb that is the bible. Is it Christian?
That is the way it really was.
yaa god is not here in this forum, particularly this thread..
Um, clearly, but NO believer that I know would ever believe that nor say it. Like God, checks out when someone sulks.
cool theory dude. Nice. Good Times
OK seriously, I have never read the bible and does it discuss this issue? If so does it reflect what happens? And why would God turn his back on you for suicide? People tell me he loves everyone. Why would he allow a hell? Why suicide bad? It's simply a tragic will to want to live not a selfish act to die. ???????????
By killing yourself, you are sending all those people who love you dearly straight to Hell, here on Earth, for the rest of their lives. Is it a sin to do that? It's a crime, for sure. Too many people end up being punished though.
yaa .. atleast we should think about our loved ones..
Home girl- there's that word again, coming up on these pages: responsibility. (Checked out the forum on bank overdrafts and it also came up there). I agree with you and Daniel. But, in my line of work (psychiatric nurse) I receive patients on a daily basis who were attempting and NOT successful, or who are so depressed and unable to move forward that they feel suicide is an option, OR who want to play the system and have 3 hots and a cot while they apply for disability. Sad but true.
For those who are serious about suicide, compassion and nonjudgemental support goes a long way. For those who are manipulating family through idle threats, I maintain my professionalism and do my job in offering them support as well.
I realized I did not answer the original question. I was raised Catholic and was taught it is a sin. I am plumb in the middle of Southern Baptist beliefs and they are staunch believers that it is a sin. While it is a tragic occurance, I personally do not believe it is a sin. My heart goes out to those who are desperate enough to try and succeed, and for all of those who are left behind in the aftermath.
Suicide is never an option. May be you think that no one loves you and no one cares. But how do you know? As long as you are alive there is always hope. May be you'll go for a walk and meet that wonderful person, who will make you happy for the rest of your life and who will need you, you just don't know yet. it's life. Things happen, wonderful things, not just overdrafts.
Unfortunately, sometimes people are so depressed, and it is a physiological chemical imbalance, not something that it is a mind decision, that they are in the depths of a black hole and see no other alternative. I've seen people who are literally dying from a lack of food because they don't even have an interest or energy or appetite to feed themselves.
Ah, yes, a sane, rational voice. Devoid of religious dogma.
Thank you, Denise.
Welcome to our very opinionated, varied neighborhood. Looking forward to get to know you.
I hubbed about this a while back. It is amazing the suicidal people who come back to you with their reasons for wanting to end it all, and often no matter how many suggestions you make to them they have answers for all of them that actually do leave you wondering what other alternatives they have left. One in particular on my hub was called "loser37", and I ended up at a loss as to what else to suggest to him. Worryingly he hasn't posted in a couple of weeks now, and I just hope he didn't do anything drastic. The hub is called "Do you really want to commit suicide". I obviously won't post the link here, but the results of the article were more of an eye opener than I anticipated.
Suicide is a cowards way out
I don't think anything in this world could be bad enough to make you kill yourself.
I understand people suffer from mental illness, but there is help out there. Come on life is precious and look what you do to the people around you.
I have to say this has always been my point of view, but the guy visiting my hub lives in Las Vegas, is on the street, his car was confiscated after he was found living in it, his family want nothing to do with him and told him he was dead to them, even laughed at him when he asked for help, he has lost touch with his friends (with whom he wasn't all that close anyway), his ex-Wife won't let him see his 5 year old son since he lost his job and therefore cannot wash, eat or shower. The homeless shelters are full and won't let him in and he cannot get any income to put himself back on to the upward path. There is no benefit system in LV, and his ex-wife wants to take him for any money he ever manages to get. You would have to read this chap's comments and my suggestions to get the full picture, but I can't see any way out for him unless you can come up with something I haven't thought of. It becomes really hard to argue against suicide in these instances, as by all accounts no-one would miss him if he did die, and he has little hope if any. I am keen to help him, but have run completely out of suggestions that might turn his life around or give him a reason not to kill himself.
In the Christian faith, one of the core rules is 'thou shalt not kill'. In regards to this, purposefully and willingly killing a person is considered murder, which is a technical sin. It does not specify that it has to be ANOTHER person, just a person in general. When you commit suicide, based on technicality, you are killing a person. So you are committing murder, which is considered a sin.
So from a purely technical stand point, yes. It's a sin. And it will probably hold all the punishments involved with regular murder.
But this doesn't offer this chap any suggestions other than the starving to death on the side of a street option, and to say that it says "Thou Shalt Not Kill" in the Bible probably also refers to killing yourself too, could be viewed as manipulating the text to mean what you want it to mean, when actually it may simply have meant "Don't go and murder other people who don't deserve it"!
Do you see what I mean? It can never be totally black and white no matter how much we would like it to be... there are shades of grey in most cases.
I'm finding it incredibly sad, judgemental and very UN Christian like to read some of these comments. People are sounding pretty doggoned ignorant, narrowminded and uninformed. If any one of you ever has a turn of events that push you to the edge I would only pray that someone shows you a kind heart and mercy.
Suicide is a sign of mental instability. It has little to do with 'being brave and face another day' or 'buck up, it isn't that bad'. How do you know? How do you know what this person who is suffering has going on in his/her life?
Who are you to judge that?
Well spoken, Denise.
But let me reiterate to everyone who believes that there should be no mercy for suicide, that it is a "sin":
Unless you've been to that edge, unless you've looked death squarely in the face an inch from your own, you can only guess as to what it really feels like. You have no real comprehension of being that close to death, teetering back and forth, wondering if you'll regret taking your own life.
Those seconds are only a few, but the reality of it feels like years.
Those who flippantly claim that it's a "sin" to commit suicide pretend usually to also know the will of God. But wait till your world falls apart at the seams, so completely out of control that YOU wonder where the hell God is when you needed him, face death in the eye, and then get back to me about your view of suicide being "sin" and there should be no mercy for committing it.
All you have to do is go there. Once that happens, you get a completely different take on the universe. A completely different take on life, relationships, love and everything else you thought you knew.
Just go there, and get back to me and you'll see what I mean.
However, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So you might have to trust me on this one.
A course correction is better than "repenting" of "sin." A course correction fixed the reason that you "sinned."
You know, I'm kinda out of sorts, after seeing Misty's post.
And, I'm sorta appalled at the mentality of some people, with regards to suicide, being a cowards way. It seems weird people would think that suicide is a cowardly act.
If you have a person who lives their life, and never harms a person, but then is put into a situation where all hope is lost...How is it seen as a cowardly act to take one's own life?
I would think it requires more strength to take one's life, for which, a coward would not have, especially if you are against harming others or taking someone else's life.
It never made any sense why people find these people to be cowards. It's understood that some people view it as being a coward of living life, but that thought itself is foolish in concept alone. It doesn't take a strong person to live life. Even a coward could live life through to the end.
Just a thought.
Ray, I think the cowardice expressed is that of a person refusing to accept the consequences of action or inaction with regard to life events. A coward hides or finds quick escape/solution, while the honorable person faces the consequence/situation no matter what the outcome...
But, a person who commits suicide accepted their position and the consequence that put them into that position, and has no hope left to drive them forward. So, it thus becomes their only option.
The strength required to do it is a lot, trust me, I know. I've tried several time, many moons ago.
The strength of hope only reaches so far, yes? The action is another story. The Japanese used to believe the honorable thing was to die in battle. But today, general suicidal tendency leans toward escape, rather than honor of deed and purpose. I have lost both hope & faith to extreme points. Oddly, my strongest moment was when I considered the escape route. But I realized there was no honor in it...
Twenty One Days, I understand what you are saying, but the only reason I am living today is because of a deep-seeded understanding of Integrity, for which, I attribute to my not being able to take my own life.
Those who live without it, have nothing preventing them from doing it, but taking a life is very difficult, especially when it is your own.
I believe you hit the proverbial nail on the head: integrity.
Cagsil-you are right on target. I believe there lies within each of us that Soul spark of life. It is our 'fire' that burns with courage (to face the world), strength (to meet adversity), will (to continue when we feel like all hope is lost), compassion ( to show ourselves kindness when we want to give up), love (to bring us back to who we spiritually are), joy (to feel the sweet gratitude of life), and integrity (to be the bearer of a truth that is greater than any egoic story we tell ourselves of selfpity along the path of our journey on earth). That Integrity will carry us through many a dark tunnel. It is the separation from this characteristic in which the hopelessness sets in.
It's just not worth losing precious life. I don't think we will be punished but probably be placed in the same journey again....
I have to say Cagsil that I am at a loss as to what to say to someone in this chap's situation. I do believe that it is incredibly hard to commit suicide, much like it is hard to hold a knife in your hand and cut yourself when every instinct is screaming out at you that pain means "Don't do whatever you are doing to cause it".
I always felt suicide was a coward's way out, and in most cases I feel it is selfish as you are probably going to cause huge pain to those who love you and are left behind, but what do you say to someone who has no-one who cares about them to leave behind, and they don't have anyone to help them out? Does this chap simply sit on a street corner and starve to death, as it seems there are no other options available to him. If I could help him I would, even if by simply flying him to a different state, getting him a couple of months rent in an apartment and helping him to find a job where he could get himself in a position to pay his own rent, feed himself, keep himself clean and make his young son proud of him in the future, trouble is I have no funds to do this and cannot help him. Apparently even the Police Women team who confiscated his car laughed at him when he said he had no money and no-where to go. What kind of world do we live in if this is how the law behave?
Does God want this man to starve to death and suffer his way through to the end, or is there some divine intervention due to him any moment now? I hope the latter is the case, but doubt it somehow, life is rarely a fairytale don't you agree? Sometimes religion is blind and people don't realise just how bad things are for certain suicidal people, and I for one am not afraid to admit I may have been a bit too blanketed in my approach to the hub I wrote on "Do you really want to commit suicide".
Misty, you are very right about the difficulty in taking one's own life.
In most cases, yes people leave behind others that do care about them, and most of the time people who do commit suicide, do so without much of family to notice or be aware of the signs, for which, bring it(suicide) into play in someone consciousness.
The people in the position that this person is in, is very difficult and you are correct, there are not enough resources available to give him the proper treatment or assistance he needs. The kind of help he requires is and has never been available in America or much place else.
It's unfortunate, I spent my earlier years deeply researching, reading and studying religion, and had I not, then my business would already be global(instead of still being developed).
I find it appalling that the police took his car, because he was sleeping it. I mean, it would have been better to let me keep it than putting him directly onto the street. They(the police) have made the pressure, possibly too much for him to shoulder, at this point. Their actions will be a direct cause for what he does next. I am going to make a suggestion and it might seem completely off the wall, but it might be in his best interest or completely do him in. I guess that would completely depend on him and his present emotional status, for which, I do not know. However, my suggestion is to tell him to commit a crime. Not harm anyone, but a crime that would at least put him in prison, after which, he can determine what to do from there on out. At least he won't be on the streets, and get the feeling of walking out in front of car to end his life, which would emotionally devastate someone else.
The only reason I even suggested the option I have, is from the realization of some of the homeless in my area, have began committing crimes, stupid stuff, just so they can take a shower, have a place to sleep and get food. It is pathetic that there are not enough resources to account for the problem, but then again, the problem isn't being addressed in the manner, in which, it should be handle.
I'm leaving your reference to "god" alone, so as to not upset you anymore than you already are.
Cheers Cagsil, the points you make are excellent and I am inclined to agree with your suggestion about the crime, although I never thought I would have contemplated such a suggestion in the past. I just hope he checks in to my Hub again so I can suggest this, (assuming he is okay and it is not already too late).
It's his only option, other than what he is thinking. At least if he is in prison, then he has more than a 50/50 shot at changing his life around.
The other option gives him zero chance to recover. I'm not much on the suggestion either, but it's more positive than what's being contemplated.
I'm glad I could help.
I haven't followed this thread all the way threw so I hope this is in context.Suicide has more to do with Pain that is blown out of proportion by Obsessing about that pain creating tunnel vision.The pain,physical or emotional,is the driving force.
"When the fear of the pain in life becomes greater than the fear of the pain in death...Man will chose Death every time"
H D Thoreau
When the mind crystallises and the pain[real or self inflicted] becomes to great to bare a decision is made...usually suicide....once in a great while the mind breaks through the viel and a fundamental change occurres that brings the person back to a sort of balance and the process of rebuilding begins.That is why reason or emotional appeal rarely have an effect on suicidal people.The only chance to intercede with the down ward spiral is to some how interrupt the thought process.
Sorry for the length of this but I have a few friends who didn't make it....and ya...It hurts real bad.
This may help you to decide. http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=228
Interesting link, but still doesn't really offer answers to the problems such as the guy visiting my hub on suicide is experiencing. I repeat, is he meant to simply sit by the road and starve to death? The Bible is massively open to interpretation by everyone who reads it, (not to mention heated debate as to if it is the words of man or the clergy wanting to control the masses rather than the words of any religious icon such as Christ or God), but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of someone like the suicidal person I have visiting my Hub, how can you or I possibly tell them that suicide is the wrong option and they should simply sit and allow a slow lingering death to befall them because they can't buy food, shelter, washing facilities etc and no-one will help them out, (including the local Church and homeless shelters).
I don't take a lot of stock in the Bible and what people say it says but if God is a Loving God then suicide wouldn't be a sin... it would be a shame. A shame to lose someone who was lost and ended their life before they could be found again.
I think ZZron was addressing the main thread topic and not your dilemma.
Good point, it is easy to lose track of the original question once a thread gets this long, thanks for pointing that out Cags
It is a sin, but if you are saved then your saved and you will go to heaven.
In terms of right and wrong, I believe its very wrong. It affects those around you, family you've dedicated years of their lives to help you become the person you are, just so you can throw it away. Also the fact that many who commit suicide are capable of fixing their problems, and should be thankful what things they DO have, and overcome the obstacles they face.
How do you know what kind of family someone committing suicide comes from, Wademcmaster? After all, a young girl, severely abused by her father, uncles, and brothers for years...ever since she was 4 yrs old or so, may finally reach a point where the suffering will stop b/c she is in control of how it will end. How is that for a 'family that has dedicated years to help her become the person, etc. That is irrational and arrogant. Unless you have walked in their shoes, my brother, you have no clue what goes on behind closed doors!
That's fair, I wasnt considering such situations I was only generalising & didn't think anyone was going to take it so personally, so I apologise for getting you worked up. I've met people who ended up commiting suicide. I have had family members attempt suicide before, they and I today are certainly glad they didnt, life can turn around. I still stand by the beleif that I think it is wrong - however, understand that it can be the only way out. One thought, also in terms of wrong, I dont just mean the person is wrong for doing it, thats not the case (that would definitely be arrogant). It could be that them being driven to that is wrong, the result of suicide is generally come from some event/s of a wrongful nature. No-one ever commits suicide for happy reasons.
What a hot topic. Everyone has an opinion based on their own perspective of what is right coming from their own background of beliefs. This is obvious through the myriad of comments, mostly centering around the Christian belief system.
I am reading about people who are showing a lack of understanding and compassion for their fellow human being who may be suffering in ways that are not obvious.
I thought Jesus taught compassion and kindness?
To MistyHorizon-I'm sorry you are struggling with this dilemma of the unknown and desperate homeless man. The best advice I would suggest for him is to get himself to the nearest hospital and have him tell them what is going on-that he is desperate, cannot go on living and is thinking of ending his life. He will be helped there. They are legally obligated to deal with this problem. He cannot be turned away.
Casgil-have to disagree with you on this one. Committing a crime makes one a criminal and only compounds the situation. In the end, after jail, one still has to deal with the real issues of how he got into that situation to begin with.
One more thing, Misty-there is ALWAYS more to a desperate someone's story than meets the eye. It is good to have a kind heart and willingness to help someone. It is also important to ask key questions and tune in to what is not being said.
Good luck to you with your situation.
God bless all of the suicidal people in this world.
The real issue.. you are kidding right? The REAL issue is that the person wants to end their life, or did you miss that? All other options are at an end.
Committing a crime, put them in jail, so they can SORT OUT their problems, but remain ALIVE and have food, shelter and clothes. Not to mention, showering. Try grasping the entire problem, before making a hastily comment.
That is the point cagsil--it isn't a hasty comment. The person wants to commit suicide--wants to END his life. He NEEDS PSYCHIATRIC HELP! He can get shelter, food, and a professional team to offer him assistance in sorting out his problem: why he wants to end his life (which is obviious in the info Misty provided).
Hospitalization on a psych unit is MANDATORY for anyone who is a danger to himself or others. It is the law to protect people like this man. That means: anyone who enters an emergency room at any hospital and says, "I want to commit suicide" will be brought to either that hosp's psych unit or (if they have none) a facility nearby. Transported by the county sheriff dept. REGARDLESS OF ABILITY TO PAY.
The route of hospitalization is a much better option than committing a crime. You get the same benefits of jail: food and shelter, PLUS the added benefit of being in a position to have someone LISTEN to the problem and help resolve that problem.
Just in case you did not bother to READ MY COMMENTS earlier, with regards to my own Life....do you think I need psychiatric help? Especially, considering I am alive and well. DUH!!
You want to make a bet? I can almost guarantee, he cannot get assistance, and it is more than obvious that you haven't a clue about the entire CONCEPT!
It's not a mental illness, that he should subject himself to lock up in a mental ward.
Right, and while there HE has NO CHOICE about straightening himself out. He has no ability, because he will be on anti-psychotic medicine, for which, he will be FORCED to take. How in anyway does that fix his problem?
The route of hospitalization is NOT a better option.
And, for the pathetic notion that he will be able to leave that hospital when he feels better? Not likely.
When he gets out of jail, then yes he will have a record, but that depends on the CRIME he commits, which will determine the difficulty of the rest of his life. The crime committed will be for a set determination time. If he is confined to a mental ward, there is NO TIME set for his release.
Being confined to a hospital because of mental illness is worse than having committed a crime, because those who will want to hire you will not want someone who appears unstable mentally. Never mind, a criminal. At least a criminal can still get a job or something. Those with mental illnesses are labeled worse than criminals.
Cags, I think what everyone needs to realize is that suicide is an individual issue. With that said, some people are sick like my husband was, and some people were like you who made it.
Whatever the case is- there is no way to rationalize why someone kills themselves. Only thing that we all know 100% is that people do. That's it.
Now is it a sin? In an earlier comment I stated why it is a sin in my eyes. And that is the real message we are all suppose to be commenting on. Not whether or not you were crazy, are crazy, or whatever.
Apparently you don't think it is a sin. After all the arguing against you and by you, is that correct to write?
Because this bashing each other back and forth, has caused major, unnecessary confusion. And now I'm lost. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Suicide is a very serious issue. Arguing over it won't help us survivors deal with it, or come to terms with it. This is just my humble opinion. Thanks.
It is nice to see you IE, but if you would like to report me for being off topic, then please by all means, do so. Otherwise, see your way out of this conversation which is between Myself and someone else, who isn't you. No offense intended. But, if someone is contemplating suicide, it is NOT a mental illness. It is tied to social pressures brought on by others.
You believe it to be a sin, only because you have the irrational belief in a god.
If you are confused, then why did you respond to my post? You make no sense.
Suicide is a serious issue? Really. I guess you can keep thinking it's an issue and avoid the main cause. Therefore you can feel compelled to force others to accept what you think is in their best interest.
"But, if someone is contemplating suicide, it is NOT a mental illness. It is tied to social pressures brought on by others."
Are you a Psychologist or Psychiatrist?
I'm wondering how you know that suicide is not a mental illness or rather a symptom of mental illness?
It has been my experience that delusions are a symptom of mental illness.
Who is to say that the social pressures you speak of are not all in the persons head.
My husband was a severely depressed individual. His depression gobbled him up.
Some people in this forum think they have all the answers, since they tried it. But it is quite clear they really don't have clue, anymore than the rest of us.
My husband, died 9-16-2004 clearly had mental issues. Would he be here had he taken his medication? Without a doubt he would still be here. A certain ranting individual in here, is making comments, that do not represent the majority of dead people- who have died by suicide. Rather, I think it is safe to say that their venting, is a self-loathing way of trying to shove their short-sided opinion on the matter, down everyone else's throats.
But still............., people die everyday by committing suicide. Whatever the case maybe, humanity needs more compassion.
This is so tragic, and I am so deeply sorry for you and also for your husband who was so depressed.
Please forgive me, I don't mean to stir up any problems or confusion, but I don't understand the date you gave here.
I appreciate your desire to inject some compassion into this very heated exchange.
I just wanted to know if he had Psychoanalyzed a successful suicide victim.
It has been my experience those who have attempted and failed at suicide really wanted others to notice them.
Its just a cry for help like any other self destructive behavior.
Not the case here. Had no idea that he was thinking of killing himself. No idea at all. None.
He just didn't come home one night, so that morning I went looking for him. Found him hanging over a pile of sheetrock, at our family's lumberyard. He was still warm to the touch, and the rope had stretched. So I could reach him. His hands were dark purple, and his body had released his body fluids- because when I tried to lift him up, I was covered in his feces. But it is his hands that I will always remember, and the calmness of his lukewarm body. It was awful. Just awful.
In 3 days my brother will be dead 3 years by suicide.Hanged himself with a noose 4 feet off the ground.All he had to do was stand up. He just squatted down and bent his knees.He just had gotten off the phone,inviting a mutual friend over the next morning to work on his car. No indication at all of this event.Nothing to cause him to do it. Just out of the blue.
My my, little hot under the collar. My.........., well excuse me for trying to help.
And report you? Where do you make up this crap? Report you? I have no idea what you are talking about. Why would I report you? That is just being hateful, if you ask me.
By the way- I found my husband hanging by a noose. Dead cold! Yeah- it's an ISSUE. AND I take issue with it.
You see, you were not actually trying to help. Or did you miss that?
Hateful? You are kidding right? Yes, I said report me. Why? Because, I'm not on topic, why else? WOW!
I can see why you have an issue with. Blame yourself, and stop looking to force your view on others.
The only reason SUICIDE is an issue, is because too many people lack the sight to see the signs, and that happened in your case as well. So, please. Yes, truth hurts, but saying that it is an issue, is negating the prime reason for it's occurrence.
Am I hot under to collar? You bet, considering it is blind ignorance from the actions of others, for which, brings suicide into the mind of those who do do it.
I am no way trying to force my views on others. I just stated opinion. You are the one using all CAP's, and ranting at everyone. So if there is anyone person trying to shove their short sighted opinions down peoples throats, that is clearly you Cags.
Don't put the blame on me, when clearly you are the one to blame for venting rudeness here.
Thank you for this, I shall also post this suggestion on my hub if Loser37 re-visits it again, but I fear it may already be too late as he hasn't posted on there in at least 2 weeks now. You are very kind and compassionate to comment.
Suicide is a sin. But it can be forgiven. The Bible also says, where sin abounds, grace that much more abounds. Jesus said every sin but one could be forgiven. Suicide was not that sin. There will be many murderers in heaven. Moses will be there, he was a murderer. David will be there, he was a murderer. The thief on the cross will be there. The apostle Paul, who facilitated the death of Stephen, will be there. God's grace is big enough to forgive people for their many mistakes.
This makes no sense. The bible clearly states that murderers do not get the eternal life deal. You cannot ask repentance when you are dead. It is too late by then. So any one who murders them self (commits suicide) is going to burn in hell for all eternity, according to your bible - not the version you just made up.
I am def going to hell though - because I do not believe The Nonsense, and I have spoken against the Holy Spirit - in fact - I deny it's very existence - and that is an unforgivable sin. So I do not get to hang out with all the Christian child rapers, adulterers and murderers who repented.
Woe is me.
Scoot over, Mark, methinks you ain't alone.
I'll save you a seat by the fire. Oh wait...................
That's fine. I'm a pretty good cook. I've worked in very hot kitchens for a while now...
But please bring some weenies and marshmallows. They're everywhere, so you shouldn't have trouble getting to them...
Suicide is an evil spirit that makes one to think there is no hope anywhere and that's why it's victim engage in the act. God almighty is definitely against such an act...ITS A SIN!!! If you're tormented by this spirit, the best thing to do as a christian is to pray to God for restoration of hope in your life,home,career or whatever is causing it and for the non-christian, you should talk to someone about your problem because a problem shared is a problem solved.
LOL - I like your new religion, but - a problem shared is a problem shared.
With all due respect, prayer never cured mental illness. (Suicide is usually a result of mental illness.) Drugs, however, can help manage it.
I think the term suicide captures a few definitions...yes, some feel they've just lost all hope and do it or attempt it; i see that the result is devastating for everyone left behind; they ask why over and over; there is no answer; however, there is a reason a person would go there - it's not my place to condemn; i find it sad they went there in the first place and couldn't reach out or had no one to reach out to.
For those that do not want to suffer physically anymore and are terminally ill...and you just don't want to live with the pain anymore..then I don't have a problem with that, when someone chooses to end their pain and misery....and again those left behind ask why?...even though they've witnessed the pain and misery. I think in these circumstances, people left behind, don't want to let go...
Sin...going to hell...well i guess it all boils down to what you believe in....i'd rather just not condemn something that I do not have the answer to.
In Islam, it is a sin like taking other people's life. Giving and And God, Allah have only the right to give and take someone's life. For me, it is a sin i think.
It is a sin as life is god's precious gift and should not be ended. Life is pretty short so enjoy every moment info bucket
Google it. Lots of info.
Here is one link:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article … 86,00.html
from a religious point of view , suicide is considered a sin in all religions , because the life that you have been given is not yours its your creator s .and from a scientific and human approach , committing suicide is a sign of mental disturbance and a huge failure in life .but i would say When you use the word sin to describe the act of suicide then you are automatically looking at it from a religious angle .
RE: jail time for crimes:
For those who are not aware, the psych ward is a form of prison. There are good reasons for it.
Medkh9-I agree- it does become a religious issue. But, there is the psychological problem along with this.
Daniel- Absolutely. (wrote that in my hub this wk. The psych units are LOCKED units and one has to be 'evaluated' before discharge b/c they may still be suicidal.
Cagsil- another word about the Jail/ Prison-- once you have a criminal record employment is even harder to obtain. Employers have to do a criminal backgrd check. It complicates finding employment, becoming gainfully employed with a paying job, getting a paycheck for food, a home, clothes, etc. That's why the psychiatric help, via a psych ward, is really the better of the two options.
And, I'm sure those aren't even the only three (suicide, jail, hospital) that there are. Those are some of the more obviouis ones.
And by the way, I love when people don't have facts they call others troll.
Waiting on the proof.
Religious or not, suicide is always wrong! When you fail in something or many things, it doesn't mean life is over... There are ways to solve your issues and there is something called HOPE without which, man is nothing.
I think given the state of mind that someone has to be in to commit suicide, it can't be considered a sin. It is a weakness of the mind and spirit that makes someone want to not be here anymore and what kind of god would condemn that person for being sick?
That said, I think is a totally selfish act but again, most people who are contemplating suicide or actually do perfect the act are not thinking clearly much less rationally.
My aunt tried to commit suicide when I was a child and it was a horrible thing for all of us to witness and to cope with for years to come as she was confined to a mental institution.
I would not wish her mental state on anyone and although it was one of the most frightening things to grow up knowing her, I now would not have traded her for the world. I learned a bit about mental illness and a lot about fear of same from her and now realize that it was something out of her control. I am thankful she lived as long as she did and eventually did get better - or as good as she could be.
according to me, it doesnot matter whether it is sin or not a sin..it is human life which gets wasted and should be avoided..
no, death is natural and supposed to happen. natural causes, murder, suicide, accident etc.
God has already made your plan & how you die, so how can it be a sin?
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