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Einstein

  1. Marisa Wright profile image92
    Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago

    I just read in the newspaper that one of Einstein's letters is being auctioned.

    In it, he says, "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

    Einstein is often quoted as mentioning God, but this letter proves what his biographers have always maintained - that he was an atheist, and used God in a metaphorical sense or for theatrical effect.

    1. mohitmisra profile image59
      mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Some of Albert Einsteins famous quotes.
      God does not play dice with the universe.
      The universe is a cosmic delusion.
      The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science.
      He was believer in God and an Enlightened One.
      One who has not witnessed the other dimension of god cannot talk like this.He is only aware of this reality.
      Poet Mohit.k.Misra

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        Einstein was an atheist. He did not believe in god.   Another quote:

        "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

        1. mohitmisra profile image59
          mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          Albert Eistein
          "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

          "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God."

          Poet Mohit.K.Misra

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

            Interesting. Where are those quotes taken from? because this is the only reference I can find of that:

            Einstein did not believe in a personal God. It is however, interesting how he arrived at that conclusion. In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized that the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. He didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought one would have to conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he added a cosmological constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of the beginning. He said this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. Of course, the results of Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was expanding and had a beginning at some point in the past. So, Einstein became a deist - a believer in an impersonal creator God:

            "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

            However, it would also seem that Einstein was not an atheist, since he also complained about being put into that camp:

            "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

            "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God."

            It is the second part of the quote that reveals the reason Einstein rejected the existence of a personal God. Einstein compared the remarkable design and order of the cosmos and could not reconcile those characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth?

            Einstein's failure to understand the motives of God are the result of his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect physically. However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity. It would not be possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good choices. Einstein didn't seem to understand that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. It's amazing that such a brilliant man could not understand such a simple logical principle.

            These days, those who fail to understand the purpose of evil not only reject the concept of a personal God, but also reject the concept of God's existence altogether. If you are an agnostic or atheist, my goal for you would be to recognize what Albert Einstein understood about the universe - that its amazing design demands the existence of a creator God."

            Which is taken from a religion discussion forum and was being used as an argument as you can see here.

            The usual argument of the unenlightened.  i.e - It is so amazing, it must have been created by a god.

            Heard it before.

            1. mohitmisra profile image59
              mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

              Well then who created this planet-was it man?
              Poet Mohit.K.Misra

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                Why does there have to be a creator?

                And you didn't answer my question. Where were these quotes taken from?

                Saint Mark ASDB, CMT, LSD

                1. mohitmisra profile image59
                  mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                  The planets,the stars dont just happen to be there.Its so obvious it was created.
                  You need to meditate.You will come across the creator like many others have.
                  Poet Mohit.k.Misra

                  1. Crash Jones profile image59
                    Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                    Let's paint a picture. There's a green meadow, lush with millions of blades of grass, each growing in a different direction, at a different rate, with their own lifespan. In this meadow is an oak tree with 200,000 leaves. It is autumn, and over the following weeks, all off these leaves fall, twisting their way to the ground, landing at different angles, in different places, with different shades of color.

                    *snap* We take a picture of the entire scene.

                    Now, consider the trillions of actions that had to take place in order for our picture to show what it shows ... and I say only trillions because we're not taking into account the shape of the tree, the contours of the land, the patterns of the bark. Just leaves and grass.

                    Did God design this scene, or did it simply happen in the course of time. What are odds that all of these leaves and all of this grass ended up as it did at that moment? 1 : what? Are there enough zeros?

                    If your answer is that God designed it all, I will never understand your point of view.

                    If your answer is that nature took its course and the result is what you see, I wonder, why is not possible that what seems to you to be the mark of a Creator, actually the mark of nature taking its course?

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                    It is not obvious at all. It is only obvious if you are unable to accept that this is a natural occurrence of events. I understand that it makes sense to you that there must have been a creator. It is a much safer belief than thinking it was a natural occurrence. That way you have some one to blame.

                    I suggest you try a different meditation technique. I hope you can learn to live in the real, natural world instead of this fictional one you seem to prefer. I hope you can become enlightened, like myself. big_smile One day, perhaps if you meditate hard enough - who knows?

                    Saint Mark ASDB, CMT, LSD

    2. BeatsMe profile image82
      BeatsMeposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      I'm a weak person so I guess I have no other choice but to believe in God. neutral

  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Einstein was very much an atheist. He often gets quoted in a way that suggests he was a believer, but not so. This is one of my favorite Einstein quotes:

    “If people are good, only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”

    Albert Einstein big_smile

    1. BeatsMe profile image82
      BeatsMeposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      I guess not everyone who does good are hoping for rewards. Sometimes, people do good because it just feels better that way. When you do something bad, it doesn't make you happier.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        This is an Einstein quote. One of my favorites actually.

        Albert Einstein said it. It's a quote from Albert Einstein.

        And your comment makes no sense to me. Some times doing the "good," thing feels very, very bad. And doing "bad," things can make you feel very happy. big_smile

  3. SweetiePie profile image85
    SweetiePieposted 9 years ago

    I always knew he was an atheist from studying history.  However, I did hear some of these misquotes, and I do not know why people said he was a believer when he was not.  Interesting.

  4. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 9 years ago

    'I did hear some of these misquotes, and I do not know why people said he was a believer when he was not.' Fudging the truth for a good cause is OK, if it makes converts.

  5. Crash Jones profile image59
    Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago

    It is appropriate that these posts are presented inside of boxes. Each person is putting Dr. Einstein's belief's inside a very convenient, formal box ... believer, non-believer ... atheist, Judeo-Christian moralist.

    Dr. Einstein believed in one essential fact only: we know nothing. We have many theories,  many more beliefs and an innumerable amount of faith in so many combinations of these theories and beliefs that it would make Zeus’s head spin.

    If we want to get to the heart of Dr. Einstein's beliefs we should listen to his words. He was not a big fan of labels. As mentioned earlier, he said, "You may call me an agnostic ..." but his point wasn't that he actually was an agnostic. He was essentially saying, 'Call me what you will, it matters not.'

    In a letter he wrote, "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

    Dr. Einstein can't truly be called an atheist because he didn't "disbelieve" in a God, but he can't be called a "believer" either. I believe it is simpler to say that in the realm of the spiritual, he was smart enough to know that he could not know, and therefore reserved judgment until the truth was revealed. I imagine we'll come to the same conclusion at the same time he did - when we breathe our last.

    1. Eng.M profile image76
      Eng.Mposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      then, it might have been late.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image92
      Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Crash, atheists don't "disbelieve" in God.  That's a common misconception.  Talk to any atheist and he will say, "give me proof that God exists and I will accept it". 

      There isn't a Ferrari parked in my garage.  I don't "disbelieve" in the Ferrari, it just isn't there.  Take me out to the garage and show me it IS there, and I'll believe it.

      1. Crash Jones profile image59
        Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        From the good folks at Merriam-Webster:
        athe·ism 
        1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
        2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity
        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Atheism

        Just because you want to rewrite the definition of atheism does not mean that atheism's definition has been rewritten.

        Your Ferrari example is a logically flawed argument for atheism, but a great one for agnosticism. While it is true that belief in an object does not depend upon its immediate presence, there must be some proof that the object may exist before belief can be reasonably held. Not believing in Ferraris (Feratheism?) would be silly. Example: For Christians, the proof is in the Bible and perceived Godly actions in their lives and the world.

        For Dr. Einstein, he saw patterns and actions in nature that led him to, while not have faith in an almighty presence, believe that a superior entity may be in existence. He simply had the good sense to realize that there was no way he could prove or disprove a God's existence. So, he accepted not knowing. This is very different than "a disbelief in the existence of deity"

        1. Marisa Wright profile image92
          Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          It depends which dictionary you look at. 

          My dictionary defines atheism as "rejection of belief in God"

          1. Crash Jones profile image59
            Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

            Again, Dr. Einstein did not reject belief in God. He rejected being pigeon-holed into believing or not believing.

  6. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    LOl - Marisa, you are talking to a believer, logic means nothing. In the meantime, here are a couple more quotes from Einstein.

    "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."     

    From a letter Einstein wrote in English, dated 24 March 1954

    "During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world... The idea of God in the religions taught at present is a sublimation of that old conception of the gods. Its anthropomorphic character is shown, for instance, by the fact that men appeal to the Divine Being in prayers and plead for the fulfillment of their wishes... In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vase power in the hands of priests."     

    Albert Einstein, reported in Science, Philosophy and Religion: A Symposium

    "Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has never left me."

    The Quotable Einstein

    I guess you could "interpret" these to mean he was an agnostic, but it seems clear to me he was an atheist.

    1. Crash Jones profile image59
      Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      If by believer you mean agnostic with a strong inclination toward atheism, that's me. Having read a great deal, scientific and philosophic, by and on Einstein, and having written a published work on the man himself (though focused on his personal relationships with women, not his theology), I am somewhat versed on Einstein, and I agree that the quotes you provide show that he did not believe in any form of a religious, dogmatic view of a God.

      While I agree that his many, many quotes directly using the term "God" (and notice that he almost always spelled God with a capital G) were, in essence, simplified maxims meant to appeal to the scientific layman, I do not think it fair to, as I said, box him into an atheist frame. His thinking was vastly more complex. Where many see black, white and grey, he saw beyond Crayola's 64. As with all things, Einstein viewed the question of a superior power through a prism, where there are as many possibilities as there are colors.

      After all of this, I would like to clarify, so that I am not misunderstood, what it is I am trying to convey. Einstein saw no solid proof of a higher power, but he did see the complexities of the universe that can not be explained. The lack of explanation lead him to be, perhaps best categorized (in my mind) as a skeptical agnostic. But not a Bertrand Russell atheist.

  7. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Well, I guess all atheists could be classed the same way. I am an atheist. I have looked at the evidence available to me and come to the conclusion there is no god or God smile

    But, like Einstein I suspect, I am open to being proven wrong. I too see the unexplained aspects of the Universe, I just do not see a reason to ascribe this to an all-powerful creator.

    Although, if I did, I would have trouble believing that I was in any way worth consideration by this creator.

    I think this quote in particular is important to whether Einstein should be considered an atheist:

    "I do not believe in a personal God"

    This is what I say. And I am an atheist. It's pretty clear, although constant references made and mis-quotes have muddied the issue. Einstein was an atheist. Whether he was forced to change his opinion after death is a matter for conjecture. Although, he would be high on my list of people that could persuade me if he came back and said so big_smile

    Calling him a skeptical agnostic just leaves open the door for people who say, "Einstein was not an atheist, therefore he believed in God."

    1. Crash Jones profile image59
      Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080516/ap_ … n_letter_2

      This links to an article about the letter I think you're referencing being sold for $400k.

      And, naturally smile , I'll point out this paragraph: "Einstein experts say the letter supports the argument that the physicist held complex, agnostic views on religion. He rejected organized faith but often spoke of a spiritual force at work in the universe."

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        Well, that may be. I can't claim to be an Einstein expert, but I know "spin" when I see it. And yes, that was the letter. I too hold complex agnostic views on religion.

        But, I think we can both agree that religion and god are not the same thing? And I am not so sure he spoke of a spiritual force at work rather than something he was unable to explain.

        1. Crash Jones profile image59
          Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          Absolutely. Religion, in my omnimpotence wink , is an impediment to understanding the possibilities of a greater force ... be it Spinoza's Nature (Einstein was a great admirer of Spinoza [see below]) or the great 18th century Deists' watchmaker. In fact, it might be a lot closer to the truth to label Einstein, if one must, a Spinoza-esque Rationalist Deist. Like the man himself, it's all a bit more than complex. Ineffable, perhaps ... explaining this thread.

          And since the great spiritual poet/preacher/philosopher/pretentious...person won't answer your question, I will.

          "In view of such harmony in the cosmos ..." isn't actually an Einstein quote. It's an attributed quote as related by Prince Hubertus of Lowenstein.

          "I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ..." is a direct quote (with mohitmisra actually using a reinterpretation of the real quote) as reported by journalist George Sylvester Viereck on Einstein's 50th birthday. The actual quote, as written in Walter Isaacson's amazing biography "Einstein: His Life and Universe" is:

          Viereck: Do you believe in God?

          Einstein: I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.

          I throw in this famous quote: "The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

          Lastly, just for the fun of it, here's an interesting tidbit of the unexpected - a poem, written by Einstein (translated by a guy named Ben [If you want the original German version, just ask):

          To Spinoza’s Ethic

          How I love that noble man
          More than I can say with words.
          Though I’m afraid he’ll have to stay all alone
          Him with his shining halo.

          Thus a poor little dwarf
          Whom you do not lead to Freedom.
          Your ‘love of god’ leaves him cold
          Life drags him around by force.

          The high altitude brings him nothing but frostbite
          Reason is stale bread to him.
          Wealth & Women and Fame & Family
          That’s what fills him up between dawn and dusk.

          You must be good enough to forgive me
          For I can’t help thinking of Munchhausen just now,
          The only one ever to pull off the trick
          Of hoisting himself out of the cesspool by his own hair.

          You think his [Spinoza’s] example shows us
          What human teaching has to give.
          [My dear son, what’s gotten into you?
          You have to be born a Nightingale!]
          Don’t trust the comforting mirage:
          You have to be born to the heights.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

            Well, I am certainly learning more about Einstein than I had anticipated.

            Here's my take.

            There would be no need for the word "atheist," if it wasn't for the theists. I searched long and hard for a word that best described my belief system, and eventually settled on the term atheist. It is not the perfect word. I think Einstein was saying that he didn't believe in a personal god, but didn't want to be labeled as an atheist. I understand his dilemma. Being labeled in this way is not the optimum solution. But I like the label you have given him. Let's see if anyone takes that and runs with it as proof that Einstein believed in god big_smile

          2. mohitmisra profile image59
            mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

            Pretentious-is my book "Ponder Awhile" been ranked for 2006 1 in poetry,1 in spiritualsim and 2 in Philosophy-religious books or is yours.
            I was an atheist before I came across God.Your time will come mark.You are old and will not be on this planet for long.Work on your soul you are missing out big time on life.
            Poet Mohit.K.Misra

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, that's right. I forgot you were here to sell your book. That is what enlightened ones do. Sell ebooks. Silly me. You are not alone. LOL

              I was a christian before I discovered the truth.

              My time has already come and I am enjoying it. I am probably older than you, but I have come to accept that people get older. That's the way it works. LOL I wish you much joy with your upcoming afterlife. big_smile I hope it is more successful than this one.

              Also - Are you under the impression that I wrote that poem?

              Because I am surprised to hear you say that a poem written by that other "believer and enlightened one," Albert Einstein is pretentious.

              How very enlightened of you to see that.

              Glory to the freethinkers.

              Saint Mark, ASDB, CMT. LSD

              1. mohitmisra profile image59
                mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
                Albert Eistein

                Dont you understand simple english.This is a  forum on religions.You do not believe in god or religions or spirituality.What are you doing here mocking all the believers.In other forums people tell me its an honour for them when I comment on their work or that I am  a part of their forum, here it is different.

                You are to insulting and to arrogant.You do not have the brains to write a book and get ranked 1.You should be seeking my advice like many old men do.

                Poet Mohit.K.Misra

                1. Crash Jones profile image59
                  Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                  For such a great poet you have a very poor grasp on grammar (it should be "TOO insulting and TOO arrogant). I'm hoping you have a really good editor. 

                  By the way, Ann Coulter has written #1 NY Times books and she's a raving lunatic. Your implication that we should bow to your enlightened, holy words because you wrote and self-published a book of poems that's popular with fringe Eastern Religious sects is a bit disingenuous. And it isn't a coincidence that the nice reviews of your book are by those who share your beliefs. When you're able to draw in people from outside your beliefs, then I'll be impressed.

                  I won press awards for my newspaper columns, but didn't scream to the world about it. I don't know if your faith includes learning humility, but if it does, you might want to dwell on that matter for a while.

                  According to your poetry, we're all equal, therefore making my opinion on religion just as valid as your own. Belief in and the expression of the opinion that the absurdity of organized religion is detrimental to spiritual life belongs exactly where it is now ... in the religions forum.

            2. Crash Jones profile image59
              Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

              The good Mark Knowles didn't call you pretentious. I did. Me. Crash Jones. The young man with a dog on his head.

              Work on your eyesight. You're missing out on life.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks, but this particular enlightened great poet is unlikely to admit to making a mistake. big_smile

                Or apologize apparently.

  8. BeatsMe profile image82
    BeatsMeposted 9 years ago

    Yeah. Sometimes. But not all of the time. And by the way, I knew it was a quote from Albert Einstein.

  9. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Continually misquoting the man you said wrote pretentious poetry is not exactly persuading me to your way of thinking.

    And insulting me personally is just telling me exactly how enlightened you are. Would you be threatening me if this was a person to person discussion ?

    I cannot imagine a subject I would seek your advice on.

    I live in a free country and I am free to mock whomever I choose, but I usually reserve it for people such as yourself.

    You are funny, and I will continue to mock you if you behave in this fashion.

    Once again - where did you get this quote from? And the others which you misquoted? And what is wrong with Einstein's poetry exactly? It appears at least as good as yours.

    Saint Mark ABCD, LAIPP, CMT, NCTBMA

    1. mohitmisra profile image59
      mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Because you have not found god that doesnt mean no one else has.Today is Buddha purnima.The full moon when the Buddha got enlightened.A good day for you to start meditating.You will also get enlightened if you meditate and take the effort.I cannot meditate for you and show you the light.Believe me its your birthright to come across the source and experienece bliss.
      Poet Mohit.K.Misra

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        Not going to apologize for verbally attacking me twice now huh?

        I question your enlightenment on this basis, which automatically throws everything you say into question. I have come across what you call god. And found the bliss attached to that connection.

        But it was not a god or a creator.

        I do not follow your calendar and any day is as good as another for anything.

        I wish you well in your next life.

        Saint Mark APD, CMT, AIPP

        1. Misha profile image75
          Mishaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          Enlightened poets don't have time for that, didn't you know? wink
          Selling ebooks takes all the time left after insulting heretics big_smile

  10. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    LOL

    Certainly not the worst insults I have had hurled at me. But usually I deserve them big_smile

    That is twice I have spoken to him only to be insulted and verbally attacked. Guess his definition of enlightened is different to mine.

    Now he is dragging up every 3 or 4 month old thread and adding puerile comments. "Very Deep. Very Interesting." As though he can bury his attacks LOL

    I though we already explained about spam?

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Lettin' an enlightened one get under your skin ehh Mark. LOL.  Let it go.  *smile*.  tongue

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        LOL Not really, I am just amazed how some "enlightened" people behave.

        But I guess you only have a problem with certain types of preacher huh? * smiles back *

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          yeah, just ones that don't think for themselves.  LOL.  wink

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

            That would be the ones. And they are not limited to christain evangelists. I live near a large Muslim community and they are just as bad. As is this particular enlightened one.

            Thinking for yourself and preaching the WORD (whichever word that is) rarely go hand in hand. big_smile

            1. Misha profile image75
              Mishaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

              I definitely agree to this. And definitely there are exceptions - like Peter for example smile
              Which makes me thinking hard, too smile

              1. Marisa Wright profile image92
                Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, Peter's a wise man - he doesn't shove Christianity down people's throats, and by doing so, makes it more likely they'll swallow!

                1. Misha profile image75
                  Mishaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                  I can't resist the temptation to post another aphorism by Kozma Prutkov: "Every person's head is like a stomach: some digest the food, and some only get constipated."

                  1. Crash Jones profile image59
                    Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh boy, we're quoting Russian authors (well, pseudonymous ones, but still, woohoo)! How about, "Of course God is endlessly multi-dimensional so every religion that exists on earth represents some face, some side of God."  Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  11. LdsNana-AskMormon profile image90
    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 9 years ago

    Please don't give this "guessmyname" guy the time of day... he is spam and has left a major SICK comment on one of my hubs.

    He should be banned before starts.  I am flagging him wherever i can right now.

    Kathryn

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      What are talking about Kathryn? wink

    2. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Ya, that guy gave me the creeps.  Good call Nana.  tongue

  12. profile image0
    Zarm Nefilinposted 9 years ago

    Einstein believed in Spinoza's "God".

    References:

    quote from einstein:

    http://atheism.about.com/od/einsteingod … al-God.htm

    "1. Albert Einstein & Spinoza's God: Harmony in the Universe
    I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.

    - Albert Einstein, responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein's question "Do you believe in God?" quoted in: Has Science Found God?, by Victor J Stenger"

    quote from wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza

    "Spinoza contended that "Deus sive Natura" ("God or Nature") was a being of infinitely many attributes, of which extension and thought were two. His account of the nature of reality, then, seems to treat the physical and mental worlds as one and the same. The universal substance consists of both body and mind, there being no difference between these aspects. This formulation is a historically significant solution to the mind-body problem known as neutral monism. The consequences of Spinoza's system also envisage a God that does not rule over the universe by providence, but a God which itself is the deterministic system of which everything in nature is a part. Thus, God is the natural world and He has no personality."


    another quote from einstein:

    "4. Albert Einstein: Idea of a Personal God is Childlike
    I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

    - Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2"




    This understanding of "God" as far as I can see is not in conflict with a current understanding of quantum mechanics and is not really "God" at all.  Let me explain my take on it:

    Spinoza's "God" comes about by the realization of the unity of mind and body and that the physical and mental come from the same source (in this perhaps he is correct).  His "God" is not "intelligent" anymore than it is a big asteroid.  That is Spinoza (and Einstein's point).  It is on a smaller level (that which lies beneath), made up of the same thing but perhaps ordered differently to constitute different things (mental or physical reality)

    So, if I read Spinoza correctly, then the expression of pi as observed in nature would probably be a visible manifestation of "God".

    1. mohitmisra profile image59
      mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.
      Lovely-the more intelligent the human gets the more he sees himself as being insipid compared to the universal intelligence.
      Poet Mohit.K.Misra

      1. Crash Jones profile image59
        Crash Jonesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        I've never, in my entire life, done this before, but here goes ..............

        ROTFLMAO!!!!

        Hmm ... yeah, that works.

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          I know, it's soo funny, I almost feel really bad.  tongue

  13. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Nice find. This sort of fits with my own belief system in a lot of ways. I will have to brush up on my Spinoza. Of course, I do have the "crusading spirit of the professional atheist."

    big_smile

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Your too much sometimes.  You crack me up!  tongue

    2. profile image0
      Zarm Nefilinposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      And there is nothing wrong with that Mark, afterall, what would the rest of us do if you and people like you did not have that "crusading spirit".  Einstein sure as hell wasn't into passing legislation.

      smile

  14. Thom Carnes profile image61
    Thom Carnesposted 9 years ago

    My own favorite quote from Einstein (not entirely unrelated to this thread):

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity.

    But I'm not so sure about the universe."

    1. mohitmisra profile image59
      mohitmisraposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Its one of my favourite quotes as well.I laugh every time I read it.
      Poet Mohit.K.Misra

 
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