A followup on the thread I posted earlier.
I realized that perhapse the answer to my question "Why are nonbelievers so obsessed with telling Christians they are wrong" is simple.
So many "Christians" bash non believers and tell them they are stupid for not accpeting God. They are hypocrites and show no love.
I wanted to post this as an apology on behalf of those "believers". It saddens me that both sides are so ready to bash the other, and I realize that only an apology is needed on the topic.
If you are not a believer in Christ, and have been wronged, hurt, or bashed or had beliefs shoved down your throat by a Christian rather than lovingly told about what they believed,
You have the right to believe what you want, as do we all.
Perhaps, you might want to understand that often having beliefs shoved down your throat is the same thing as being lovingly told what they believe. Just a point of clarity.
As well, you may state that you have the right to believe what you want, but that means you would have to follow the beliefs of your religion and your god, which means you have to tell us all how to live according to your scriptures.
Notice the circular motion going on there?
Not at all, Beelzedad, there is a difference. When someone asks us what we believe and we tell them lovingly, that isn't shoving anything down anyone's throat. It's merely answering questions and it happens all the time.
And yes, that is true, but as I just stated - that may be done in a way that is unoffensive and good. Like answering questions or giving sermons in our own churches while inviting people to come. Is it so wrong to give someone the choice whether to listen or not?
And you had to turn this thread into defending your right to spread your ridiculous beliefs didn't you?
I am offended every single time that some one invites me to listen to their ridiculous beliefs. What on earth makes you think anyone is interested in what you believe?
It doesn't matter whether you talk about your beliefs in a loving way, or shove them down our throats, it's still disturbing.
Would you respect my belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, even if I told you in a loving way, or would you think my beliefs were absurd?
That is the critical point of your argument though. No one is asking you because they already know or were never interested in the first place because they have access to bibles just like you.
Yes, it is wrong because you forced that choice upon them, which means the choice of whether to listen or not has nothing to do with what they want and everything to do with what YOU want.
Imagine if you can that you get next weeks newspaper? You know beforehand what hurricane Catrina is going to do to New Orleans and the gulf Coast.
Ya know what is about to happen.
Ya want to save as many people as you can but nobody will listen to ya.
Yea; you know that most everyone is going to think that you are foolish. But if just one person believed you and got out of town it was worth pushing your beliefs upon those that didn't hear ya..
Imagine your god...
Oops! There's the problem.
Yeah - but your threat does not exist. In which case the one person saved from the nonexistent threat does not make up for the constant wars.
But - you go ahead and justify sticking your beliefs to all and sundry. Odd how upset you seem to get when people tell you they are nonsense. Ya know?
You don't need anyones permission to believe what ever you believe in or not believe.
I don't either.
I do not come on here to argue with Atheists or even to change their beliefs.
I come here to express my beliefs with believers.
I believe that approx 99% of all bible prophesy has been fulfilled. So to believe the finalley is near, or even at the door, would be logical.
You don't want to hear it?? OK; Fine with me!
Most Christians don't want to hear it either.
The prophesy that they are waiting and watching for to be fulfilled at some time in the future have "ALREADY" happened according to the book that they hold in their hands.
That is; except for the seventh trumpet and seventh Vial
Someone said (2000 years ago) that it hasn't happened yet
It is written so it must not have happened yet..???
A 1000 years from now it will still be written that it hasn't happened yet ?????? And a 1000 years after that it will still be written. SO ?
That is my message. And I know !! You don't want to hear it! If you don't want to hear it ? Don't listen.
ohmygoodnessrae, just a word of advice... don't waste your time trying to get Beelzedad to understand. He is the most argumentative man I've ever encountered! lol
As to the question about vegetarianism, it might be rude to talk about a lovely steak with a vegetarian around. But I think it would be just as rude for a vegetarian to act so offended because somebody else has a different view on meat eating.
While my wife is vegan and will still cook me a steak, I do know some other vegetarians who are offended when I talk about meat. They feel that their own belief is more 'justified' than mine, which I feel is somehow wrong.
In regards to the OP, I don't think you need to apologise since you have held your temper, and have only tried to reason, not insult. There are probably apologies owed from both sides of the religion argument.
I belong to a family with the combination of religious and nonreligious, believers and nonbelievers. I believe that having discernment on how to speak to others, and being prepared with the right words to say, and when to say it. It is good to be fair and nondenominational. I think that EVERYBODY should LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
We live in a cruel world full of crime and evil, and to be personally spoken to with judgement by others who believe in God is harsh in itself. Being a good listener helps for the correct words to say.
Based on what I read of what they say - their book tells them so.
They are wrong.
The book never tells us to be hateful or to ram things down people's throats.
I'm sorry they've led you to believe that.
This is your interpretation of the book. Obviously it allows for multiple interpretations, as many believers will tell you you are wrong, and quote the book to support their point of view.
That's true, Misha. Many people interperate and call for hate.
This, however, is an apology for that. Nothing more.
You can accept the apology, or argue religion. But I really only wanted to apologize.
Oh, I don't need an apology, I am not feeling offended. It is nice of you, though
Is this from another book then?
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Thus speaketh the invisible sky fairy
That is a completely different situation, earnesthub.
That is speaking of the Kingdom of Israel. Like any other kingdom, they had laws. That priest was the enforcer of the law. Those under him served God.
They weren't forcing anything down anyone's throat - just enforcing a law they all agreed to keep.
You always seem to be looking for a fight.
No, just making some observations. Your title is the stuff that picks fights.
Again, I only entitled it to pose a question.
If you read my very first post, you'll find the reason why I published this topic.
I have a great memory thanks. I can recall all of the things I read very clearly.
Thus speaketh the invisible sky fairy
See I told you, it was coming.
Why don't you enlighten me with the "truth" then and show me proof of the guy who made himself, became his own son. killed himself and blames, punishes mankind for his screw ups??
"Fairy in the sky above, write a hub and show some love!"
That isn't want this post was about.
What for it wouldn't matter what I said. Or how I explained it. It is a lost cause.
I was only pointing out that one of you would show disrespect by calling names, as I have said in the other forum.
And you just proved me right that's all.
It is offensive to me, because it is making fun of God and believers, and that is blasphemy.
I know you don't believe that, but because I do it is offensive to me.
That's exactly what I mean!
Why do we have to name-call and be offensive?
Even if we do disagree with each other???
No not at all.
I'm agreeing with you.
Why do people have to name-call when they don't agree with someone, you know?
You know, my belief tells me that people speaking English in my presence are offending me. Please stop it, have some respect for others, would you?
Um . . . HubPages is strictly an English-speaking community . . so you are offending yourself by being here . . LEAVE!
haha just kidding
Oh, late-night sarcasm . .
He-he, those English-speakers conspire here to insult me!
But you see the point, right?
Well . . the way I took it is that you are offended automatically by people who believe the way I do.
No matter what we do.
I meant by your comment about being offended by the English language.
I don't think I got your double-meaning in that.
Could you explain? My brain kinda . .shuts down around this hour. haha
OK, once I take that English-offended stance, i am offended automatically by anyone who speaks English. Which is not the brightest stance to take obviously, and very hard one to sustain - given the abundance of English speaking people
Replace english with atheism, and you see why Diane's position is a losing one.
Okay come on over the the Russian Forum and I talk to you there.
So, why don't you move over to a christian forum then?
Because I'm not here for a Christian forum.
I'm here to write, and I participate in these forums to engage in the community.
This is just a response to what I've seen throughout the forums, you know?
This was my response to a specific post by Diana, trying to show her that I think her stance is unsustainable
Misha, are you actually prejudice against Christians?
Nah, absolutely. I don't share the belief and think it is as irrational as other religions, but I don;t have any prejudice against it, probably because I was not indoctrinated with it when I was a kid. Mark and Earnest seem to still fight the indoctrination they received in early years.
Ah I see.
Well I have no problem with you not sharing my beliefs.
I think we can get along as long as we don't start name calling. haha.
And Misha, I can definitely see why Earnest fights so hard.
I got extremely angry with God because of my indoctrination as a kid. But we won't get into that.
I just wanted to say I understood. I don't hold anything against him.
I'm right here, no need to third person me.
To understand someone you need to know a lot more about them. I have got to know Mark and I know his activities. He is a helluva lot deeper than just someone who did not enjoy indoctrination as a child.
We although sharing many beliefs are as different as I am to the OP in religious background and experiences.
Oh sorry. I thought you'd left.
Yeah I can't say I completely understand you, my friend,
I only meant to say I can understand your view, you know?
Because I used to feel prettymuch the same way.
That's funny, I used to feel the same way you do!
Well let's start this over shall we?
Hello, I'm ohmygoodnessrae
nice to meet you, earnestshub.
Oh I was waiting in the Russian forum, you never showed. he he he
I was hoping for that.
This post was about mending tension. I hate offending people - especially over something so unnecessary. He has his beliefs and I have mine. The end.
That will never happen, be nice if it would.
er two posts same question,,,,,,, now what has gone on here.
Time to sleep ohmygoodness, it's three in the morning.,
Mark Knowles wrote I am offended every single time that some one invites me to listen to their ridiculous beliefs.
ME ... Do vegitarians get so offended when someone tells them how good that "T bone" steak tasted last night?
Mark Knowles wrote What on earth makes you think anyone is interested in what you believe?
I think that everyone has wanted to ask this same question from time to time. And I think that we forget that someone will always be thinking it about us.
I don't know if vegetarians get offended. It would be pretty rude to do so wouldn't it? Sort of like telling them their lifestyle is wrong and you have a better one for them if they just listened to how good that steak was.
Really - what a high opinion you have of yourself. Where I come from it is downright rude to ask some one what they believe as far as religion goes.
You sure are good at twisting things that people say.
Were you born with that ability or do you have to work hard at it??
You must be proud of yourself.
Jerami - I did not twist anything. It is there in black and white.
Do vegetarians get offended when you tell them how wonderful your steak was?
I don't know - I am not a vegetarian, but - it would be pretty rude of you to do so.
No twisting here Jerami. Feel free to read what I wrote.
I did say when someone I didn't when I do.
Just suppose that "Someone" doesn't know that someone else is a vegitarian BUT comments on how good their Steak was!
Should the vegatian go into a rant?
NO! Cause everyone has the right to like what they like.
So - you go around telling random strangers that you had a great steak last night?
"Hey random stranger - let me tell you the good news about that Prime Rib I ate last night. It was wonderful, and you should really consider eating Prime Rib tonight.
I hear there are some people that don't like to eat Prime Rib. This is an offense against The Great Invisible Cow in the Sky, and they are going to be punished for not eating Prime Rib.
I have spent years translating the sacred texts to explain why and I now know that the prophecies have come true. Mad Cow Disease was foretold in the scriptures, many years since, as a punishment for vegetarianism. Come - let us eat Prime Rib together in the Holy Texas Steak house.
Repent and eat the Cow!"
Actually - that is a powerful argument. See if you don't want a prime Rib for dinner.
See how that would need to go to be the same Jerami?
Rude to ask? We don't ask, you just volunteer it (like) ALL the time.
Zat so? No book being spread far and wide then? No churches? No ringing bells? No knocking on doors? No TV ads? No billboards? Dear me.
Your spelling is getting worse! "Zat so?"
I haven't ever "spread" a book
rang a (church)bell
knocked on doors, (well maybe a few, but definitely not yours!)
done tv ads
You are indeed dear to me.
Ah - Interesting. Lying for Jesus huh? I have seen you quoting the book that you do not spread. LOLOLOLOL Dear me.
We spread butter, margarine, topsoil etc. I have never seen a "spreadable" book before.
Ah - semantics. Very good DJ. Proof you are a genuine Christian in any case.
DJ - it was not in the least funny. Sorry dude.
Flip:Why are believers obsessed with telling nonbelievers theyre wrong
Only because of free will and for humanity's sake to help the nonbelievers, out of love. If still they don't believe it is OK with me.
It's like this.If i see you heading for some quick sand,
should i tell you,or let you go ahead?
Mark, just wondering, so If a forum specifically says Mark you are not invited to listen to my beliefs.
Would you not therefore comment in that forum?
Jerami, I will concede that you may well be correct in your interpretation or reading of what was written. I just don't believe what is written is true.
Hay Earnest enjoying your weather? I'm not.
I might have agreed with ya except I can see the bread crumbs. (Hansel and Gretel).
There is a pretty clear trail through history that can easily be seen as fulfillment of all of the seal, trumpet and vial judgments. (except for two)
That proves something, to me at least.
Just because the story got corrupted don't mean that the main characters in the story didn't exist.
My thoughts anyway.
Well after reading all this it is pretty clear to me that ya can't have an opinion, a thought, or a belief. If ya do you should just keep it to your self because others don't want to hear it. They can express their views but if yours is different your foolish.
How's the weather? Is it ok to discuss the weather? Of course the weather is different every where so I guess we shouldn't discuss that either. Is there anything we can discuss?
Hay I'd like to hear your opinion. here is mine ...
I think you are cool
Well I think your pretty cool too. And guess what else? I think it is ok if you have an opinion. I won't even get upset if it is different from mine. I won't insult you or your belief. I'm silly enough to think every one is entitled to one.
But if we stop trying to "discuss," we won't get anywhere, either. Once in a while people DO listen to one another. I think those moments are worth many of the frustrations, don't you?
Yes we should be able to discuss. I have gone onto threads and be involved in good discussions with some one who believes differently than me. There seem to be a mutual respect there.
Take some one who is color blind. They see a color differently than we do.
They honestly see it the way they do. Who is to say they see it wrong? The majority rules? How do we know that it is the majority that isn't color blind? We all go by what we see.
I was reading once that everyone does in fact see a different shade of, lets say green. The thing that everyone has agreed to CALL green may actually apear to me as blue, but we have agreed to call it green.
And this is difficult to communicate that FACT.
It's a free world. You can discuss what you like.
If I discuss my adorable invisible unicorn feel free to not disagree with me.
If you see one, good for you. I'm not going to argue with you about it, or insult you. You see what you see.
I have seen you on many threads. I have ignored your comments because you seem to be insulting and condescending. If you attack some one they will by human nature go on the defense and a good discussion isn't going to happen.
If you have a disagreement with your wife and you start insulting her, will ya'll be able to settle the disagreement? If your wife starts yelling at you, will you hear? I believe that in order to be heard you have to speak calmly and respectfully.
If you see any gods get a photo will you? The prize goes to the religionists not me. Condescending threats made in the third person are not nice, and I usually respond to them.
We all know that God is a spirit. I could show you a picture of a spirit but you still would not believe. I have a picture that was taken with a polaroid camera. It was taken at the death bed of my husbands cousin. There are images of people in the picture that were not seen by her husband and children. Her mother took this picture to an expert to have it analyzed thinking it was a double exposure and she would have evidence that her son in law had been cheating on her daughter. The expert said No, it is real.
No one should be threatening you in any way. You do realize and been told that referring to God as a sky fairy is offensive to us. You continue to do so. That puts others on the defensive. As I stated in my above post, no one hears when they are on the defensive. We can disagree, that is every ones right, but we should do so respectfully.
Where are ya'll getting the smiley faces? I see no where on my page to get them?
Click "Formatting Tips" bottom right under the reply box for the smilies.
As a matter of interest - I see from another thread that 1, you believe in heaven, and 2, you believe that some people do not go there.
So - you buy the notion that some people get to live forever - based on their behavior in this life.
You also claim to be a Christian and your bible clearly tells me that the only unforgivable sin is to not believe in the Invisible Super Daddy, for which I will be burned in the lake of fire for all eternity.
How is this not a threat?
Yes, you are correct. I do believe there is a heaven and some people won't make it there.
Correct again. I do believe that a person has to believe.
The Bible says that when he comes every eye shall see him. When you see him, then will you believe? What is in your heart? Goodness? Love? Forgiveness?
I concede. I guess it can be taken as a threat. I didn't look upon it that way because I don't think on that. I prefer thinking on the good things. I have known some one who past away and their family was saying how this man went to hell. They don't know that! They don't have the right to judge. I am so thankful that we do not have the right to judge.
If I have offended, threatened, or judged, please forgive me. It was not my intent.
All you need to do is see that there is a threat inherent in your belief system. That rather makes your comments to earnest invalid, and your statement:
really needs to be turned around to your belief system. You are the one putting people on the defensive. You are the one making the threats.
I do not have the power to forgive you. Only you can do that by seeing the inherent threat in your beliefs. Every time you say "I am Christian" you are threatening every one who is not.
Expect a reaction.
I ask for forgiveness every night. I know I am not perfect. My intent has not been to threaten or judge any one. It isn't my place to do so. I have seen so much name calling coming from both believers and non believers. No one is going to be heard that way. We just had a discussion, neither one of us insulted the other. A respectful conversation that can be heard. I heard where you are seeing the threat. You weren't insulting, so I heard you.
By this rational... No one should be a member of any group,club or organization that exists anywhere on the face of tearth; or even a family reunion.
Exclusionary practices are not allowed even for those that refuse to partisipate.
by order of Mark Knoles and anyone else that does not want to partisipate in them. For this reason... these gatherings are not allowed.
Ya cain't let icecream haters join a icecream lovers club.
Ya cain't see um can ya Jerami. Them ice cream cultists bain't thretnin' nuthin' am they?
No other group lies wot sez it is an invisible super daddy innit.
Sorry you are unable to grasp the basic principle. No ice cream cultists are prepared to die for it are they?
I will concede that your religion is on a par with an ice cream lovers club - assuming the ice cream lovers club has spent the last 2000 years murdering and threatening people who refuse to eat ice cream - sure - why not - 'zackly the same now innit. Am thez tryin' ter git them pesky laws changed to suit theyselves and the invisible ice cream monster?
you will not be burned in hell Mark, you really wont......... you love the religious forums too much, you are a secret believer, come on admit it, and throw me a pepper
Why are believers obsessed with telling nonbelievers theyre wrong
To help the non-believers to come out of their frustration for humanity's sake.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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