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Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

  1. Pratonix profile image70
    Pratonixposted 6 years ago

    One of the greatest tricks of the devil is to get Christians wasting their time in arguing and debating with unbelievers. Unbelievers will not understand Christianity, unless God opens their eyes (the eyes of their understanding).

    One way of knowing the truth is to humbly and sincerely open the Bible and read it (preferably on one's knees!), asking God for revelation and wisdom. God is gracious and He will speak to the one who humbles himself.

    The problem with arguments and debates is that many 'Christians' themselves don't know Christ and they spend so much time arguing for their Christian religion without having a first-hand experience of the living and loving Saviour.

    It is because of 'Christians' who are ignorant of spiritual truths and spiritual realities (they may be very religious, but what is the use?) that forum discussions end up being pointless and an absolute waste of time. First, Christians should know who Christ is; this knowledge comes by the living experience of having Him dwell in one's heart through the Holy Spirit. Read John's Gospel and get to know spiritual reality!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. Humble. I see what you mean. The humbleness is overwhelming. wink

      Suits me if you guys keep your ridiculous beliefs to yourselves - in fact - please do.

      Thanks.

      1. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this
        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Personally I would be happy if religionists were not megalomaniacs.
          It would all stop if the religionists realised that my god is better than yours can't work without gods. There are no real gods, and despite mankind making thousands of things/people/fantasies into gods, none, not one has ever shown up.
          We do have the claim that the murderous psychopathic invisible bible entity is a god, but it is hardly omnipotent!

          Can't feed starving kids, just finds religionist's car keys.
          How sick and megalomanic to threaten others with this p*ss-ant god!

          1. brotheryochanan profile image60
            brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this
            1. earnestshub profile image86
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What a selective pile! I did not, would not ever say that my god is better than your god, and you deliberately misquoted me. That's twice you have done that.
              As for supporting children, and feeding the starving, you assumed I do not contribute which is a lie.
              As for having the arrogance to state that your god has fed the starving, if there was a god there wouldn't be any starving children.
              The megalomania? You have made the case for me, so I need say no more on that! smile
              Read your own post.Or better still get a psychologist to explain to you what it is you miss in what you say.

              1. brotheryochanan profile image60
                brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Again no proof just a loud noise. How do you support starving children.. and i want proof. I sense a huge shovel of bulldust.

                You know nothing about god. Absolutely nothing. zip, zero. notta.

                There will always be the poor among you, jesus said this. The starving is all about mans rule of the world not because god exists. God can in no way be held accountable because people are starving. In fact its only these situations that bring people to ask god for help. Besides how can we counsel the one who determines the fate of peoples spirits?

                and i quoted your ramble exactly. "my god is better than yours can't work without gods. There are no real gods".

                dullards, clouds without water. The bible is amazing.

                1. 0
                  sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  So those blessed Christians who have a more money than billions of people, who horde it to buy expensive cars and mansions are doing gods will to help the poor by???

                  Telling them they are fulfilling gods will?

                  1. Dave Barnett profile image61
                    Dave Barnettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    In these times, all are wandering after the beast, no matter what you see in the churches, hypocrites, and greedy sinners, but every now and then. Y'all hear about what some people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are doing? 50% of their net worth is being donated to charity.

              2. zachariahs78 profile image59
                zachariahs78posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Ignorance must be bliss! Why do you even waste your time trying to prove something that you can't? Christians, Muslims, Hindus they all do the same thing. That is why it is called faith. Even the views of science are based on a simple faith.  Nihilists such as yourself have faith in yourself and seem not to realize that it is not an outward perception or belief or even something that is tangible and needs proof. The whole idea is faith, in what ever you believe in. Even if you don't believe in something, you have faith that it doesn't exist. So that being said, why even waste your time trying to discredit someone else's beliefs? Inadequacy! Most likely.

                1. Beelzedad profile image60
                  Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Really? Hard evidence and rigor has nothing to do with it? wink

                  1. zachariahs78 profile image59
                    zachariahs78posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    That's my point!

            2. SearchingForTruth profile image60
              SearchingForTruthposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I respect that you have your opinion, as does everyone. You have misread a sentence due to punctuation and misinterpreted it ... something many people have done over the years.

              Quote:
              if the religionists realised that my god is better than yours
              very humble, indeed. Maybe you should write a book lol

              can't work without gods. There are no real gods,
              nice belief your god is better yet there are no gods.. again do you have proof that your nonexistant god is better than other nonexistant gods or are you proving that insanity runs in the family.

              That was intended as:

              if the religionists realised that "my god is better than your god" can't work without gods ...

              Please pay attention - he was talking about the common contention of religious debaters to scream "My God is better than YOUR God!!" ... he was not saying that his God was better, etc etc. Your dissection of a complete sentence was not warranted since you didn't understand his sentence to begin with.

              As far as proving God's existence "for 4000 years" ... The more I read the Bible, the more it seems like people didn't understand natural occurances and attributed them to the invisible force called God. What they decided to believe or not believe is of no consequence to me. I do not believe that anyone ever has or ever will be able to define or know everything about the force that drives us all. To claim it is an entity that you know everything about and it has spoken to you ... frankly you scare me. There is "life" in everything on this Earth and I do not believe that "life" has a consciousness bent on judgement and forgiveness. I do not wish to shove my beliefs down others throats, and I do not wish to condemn others for how they choose to believe ... your beliefs are what comfort you in times of distress and sorrow. It is difficult, however, not to respond with rudeness and disrespect when your beliefs are challenged and outright shoved aside and you have a religious person condemning you and trying to shove their doctrine down your throat. Believe as you wish, agree to disagree. You will be responsible for yourself just as all of the rest of us are. Nobody's fate rests in the hands of another person - it's in the choices you make. That's part of being a sane, mature adult. Best of wishes to all in the paths they choose.

      2. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        He could say the same to you , Mark.

    2. Diane Inside profile image87
      Diane Insideposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, however no matter how knowledgeable one is on religion, Christianity, or the Bible. It doesn't matter it is a waste of time and effort.

    3. ceciliabeltran profile image85
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If you really understand the philosophies Christianity is standing on, you won't waste your time.

      The problem is there is this thing about "spreading the word" testament whatever that is not fully understood and is being used to shove their narrow understanding into other people's throats.

      1. aguasilver profile image86
        aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I don't debate to win unbelievers, only the Holy Spirit can convict them of their sin and bring them to Christ.

        I write in the forums and in my hubs to counter their propaganda, and to give believers who may be affected by the unbelievers constant drivel and lies, the opportunity to be shown the truth in scripture.

        The bible clearly tells us that God has predestined all mankind to either salvation or damnation, we have no sway in this matter, God decides who will be blessed or not.

        God knows their condition before they are born.

        Unbelievers are incensed that God has not consulted them, but although they can come to faith (I was 41 before I stopped my rebellion) it's God, not us that has decided their condition.

        So no, it's not viable to debate with them, but it is essential to countermand their satanic whispers by presenting the truth.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh please, if the truth bit you in the A$$, you wouldn't know the difference, unless you are pretending now. lol

          1. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Cagsil, you know nothing of my ability to discern the truth, and remember, I played your side of the fence for 41 years before I found the truth.

            Equally I know nothing of the reason you have rejected God, but so what?

            I state facts as the bible presents them, you disagree, so be it, as I said, I am not here for you, but for fellow believers, especially the newbies who have not yet taken your measure.

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Agreed...

              Wonderful reminder to me by the way.. Thank you.

              smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                lol Yup - reminds me of why I despise religionists every time he sez wot god sed - innit.

                Little wonder your religion causes so much misery. Good for you Victor - fight for wot Jeebus sed. sad

                No morals. None.

          2. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            aguasilverposted 4 hours agoin reply to this

            I don't debate to win unbelievers, only the Holy Spirit can convict them of their sin and bring them to Christ.

            I write in the forums and in my hubs to counter their propaganda, and to give believers who may be affected by the unbelievers constant drivel and lies, the opportunity to be shown the truth in scripture.

            The bible clearly tells us that God has predestined all mankind to either salvation or damnation, we have no sway in this matter, God decides who will be blessed or not.

            God knows their condition before they are born.

            Unbelievers are incensed that God has not consulted them, but although they can come to faith (I was 41 before I stopped my rebellion) it's God, not us that has decided their condition.

            So no, it's not viable to debate with them, but it is essential to countermand their satanic whispers by presenting the truth. end quote

            You wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit you in the arse.  Your post is nothing but unrepentant false witness, poisoning the well, rampant ignorance, terminal hubrus, and quite pathetic.

            In short, you're the perfect example of a Loving True Xian[tm].  {mega sarcasm tag]

            BTW, I'm laughing at you.

          3. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you aquasilver, for your kindnesses in these post areas.
            I appreciate what you do. :-) SG

        2. 59
          exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          We are to speak the truth to unbelievers, sow a seed, just may be that seed will get watered.

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            But you don't and that's the problem. lol

            1. aguasilver profile image86
              aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Your problem, not a problem for those who are believers. roll

              1. 0
                sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The so called "believers" turned me away.  Let my disbelieve be on your heard. lol

                1. aguasilver profile image86
                  aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  How and why were you turned away Sandra?

                  I have been in churches where folk were not welcomed, if they did not 'fit' the mould that the denomination were stuck in, and been 'ejected' myself when I spoke into their situations, but then again I know many REAL bodies of believers, who are disinterested in your past, and only concerned to guide one to the future God has planned for us.

                  I'm sorry if you found yourself hurt by Churchianity, but Christ turns nobody away that seeks His face.

                  John

                  1. 0
                    sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Because I think the Bible makes people crazy and mean and full of crap and hardly anyone who says they believe it actually do nice things for people like me who don't like the bible or the hypocrisy or the tendency to ignore everyone else's feelings and especially the way things are going lately.

                    I don't want any part of a god who can so easily allow his 'followers' to lie and treat people unfairly and without dignity or respect.

                    I don't see Christ in any church.  You were also someone who turned me the other way.  Lacking respect for other peoples thoughts and feelings is a terrible thing to do and especially when telling them they don't know the 'truth' and that you do when you cannot even look at the things that you do that make people like me; who once believe that god was love, turn the other cheek just to get smacked some more.

                    Well, I am done with that.  I don't like liars or hypocrites or people who believe they can tell other people what to do and how to live their lives or that they are born evil and stuff like that.

                    It isn't right and your god is not right because it shows in the people who believe it.

                    1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
                      schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Sandra is turning HERSELF away.
                      If you seek the Truth, you will find it. Period.
                      Keep looking if you havent sister.

                      1. 61
                        stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        I see sgfr ignored everything about the post she's supposedly responding to.  The casual and unrepentant false witness is noted as well as the childishness of  a nasty case of blaming the victim.  How Christian of you.

                        Your post also turns 'people away from Christ.'  I wonder how many people you will be directly responsible for sending to Hell and if Jeebus will be pleased with you.  Don't be surprised if you join them there.  Don't forget such is; loving, righteous, and just.  Best give thanks as you are commanded.

                        I did find the 'Truth,' and it set me free from the Babble of idiocy and hypocrisy.  Christianity has nothing to look for or consider.

                2. 59
                  exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  If they turned you away then they are not true believers

                  1. earnestshub profile image86
                    earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    What's a "true believer" in religion? The definition would be someone who believes in the same religion you do? smile

                    1. Jerami profile image78
                      Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Hay earnest..   how is it going?
                      As for your last question???   Ain't that what you are shooting for?  Everybody to think like you do cause you have the only right belief????

                      1. earnestshub profile image86
                        earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        Not at all! My beliefs change in the light of further knowledge.

                        Who would not want to avoid pain and live forever?

                        Even one iota of evidence for the sky fairy in the last 2,000 years would be enough to make me question my beliefs.

                        Religiosity is an illness Jerami.
                        It is evident in the conclusions drawn by those superior thinkers who believe in the fairy tale.
                        I have explained here in the past the whole psychological process as it is understood today, and all I got as a reply was more "truth" from the good book. Unrelated of course! smile
                        I have never seen an honest attempt to answer Mark or any of the other non-believers here with anything that amounted to more than "god dunnit."

            2. 59
              exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I do sew seeds

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No, you sow little balls of fecal matter you insist are pearls.

                1. Jerami profile image78
                  Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You "are" the expert on fecal matter ...?????????

          2. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Correct, we preach the word at all times in that some may come to Christ, but God alone knows (from time immemorial) who will accept His salvation, and who will reject Him.

            He can Bless or not as He decides, so do not expect that these unbelievers will react to our words, they are blinded by the spirit of this world, and rejected by God, until they surrender their rebellion, and that's hard to do with a hardened heart.

            As the bible states....

            Romans 9 10-18

            Rebecca conceived [two sons under exactly the same circumstances] by our forefather Isaac,and the children were yet unborn and had so far done nothing either good or evil.

            Even so, in order further to carry out God's purpose of selection (election, choice), which depends not on works or what men can do, but on Him Who calls [them],

            It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [a]relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).

            What shall we conclude then?

            Is there injustice upon God's part?

            Certainly not!

            For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.

            So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.]

            For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over.

            So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills.

            1. 61
              stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Gotta love how Xians insult and denigrate others.  It's all a case of blame the victim.

              The cognitive dissonance is astronomical.  The poor deluded one doesn't see he destroyed his own argument in the first paragraph.

              You fools preach, but don't practice what you preach.

              [mocking]
              Braise be to Santa Claus and the universe which he founded.

          3. 0
            sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            More like pissed on.

            1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
              schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Nice mouth on you Sandra.

          4. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            exorter,
            Thank you kindly.
            May God bless you richly for your efforts!

        3. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Do you always post absolute ignorant rubbish like this?

        4. nightwork4 profile image60
          nightwork4posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          debate is always a good thing. i think one reason people don't like to debate is because other then the bible or the fear that it instils in it's believers, there is no real reason for them to believe in god. if your afraid to debate your faith , your politics etc., then you prove that your beliefs and your ideas are unjustified .

          1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
            schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Or maybe you don't feel like arguing with rude people who show no light of Christ and who have a potty mouth!

            1. 61
              stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You mean the rude, self-righteous, cowardly, and vicious people, like yourself and Prat, with the 'light of Christ.'

              Discussion requires one to actually address the points the other poster made.

            2. the pink umbrella profile image73
              the pink umbrellaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              much like a christian to pint out someones language or anythig else that has nothing to do with the argument to make them look dirty or unclean...keep to the topic.

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                They can't address points raised.  That's why they constantly try misdirection.  Ah, Christian Honesty[tm].

        5. Cedar Cove Farm profile image60
          Cedar Cove Farmposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Debating no, preaching the gospel, yes.

          1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
            ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            you can only preach to those who already believe.

          2. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Babbling bronze age bovine excrement is what you're doing.  Spread it on a farmers field where it will do some good.

        6. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          In answer to the OP ...Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

             Yes and no

             If you think that you are going to convince the non believer of anything?   
              NO

             If you are really listening to his argument?  You are testing your beliefs making them stronger in many instances, and exposing your weakness in others. 
             Ya gotta know about your week points in the belief system in order to "Prune" them or refine them.
             Yes you should debate them.

               

            If your beliefs are strong enough to withstand the onslaught?
          And people that are keeping up with the debate might hear something worth believing from either prospective then sure.

            There is always someone learning something from a good debate.

            I heard a black preacher once say that he loved it when the KKK had a rally.  A persons character is not revealed when he remains silent.

             And neither is it revealed when all is going as he planned.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            In answer to the OP ...Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

               Yes and no

               If you think that you are going to convince the non believer of anything?   
                NO"

            Unsupported assertions like the God bothersome folks yammer about are overpriced at a penny per billion.  Such folks are showing their audience, involuntary or otherwise, abject and terminal contempt.

            Worse, said individuals ignore responses and then attack the victim when the drivel isn't accepted.  Such ignoring of responses indicates the god botherer isn't presenting anything with substance.

            The actions of god botherers drive people away from christ.  Said individuals are then directly responsible for increasing Hell's population.  NB: the concept of hell falsifies any idea of love-unless its the love of perversion.


            " If you are really listening to his argument?  You are testing your beliefs making them stronger in many instances, and exposing your weakness in others.
               Ya gotta know about your week points in the belief system in order to "Prune" them or refine them.
               Yes you should debate them."

            The Xian belief system isn't even as robust as a gossamer web.  It has less substance than  rancid flying burrito exhaust gas.

                 

              If your beliefs are strong enough to withstand the onslaught?
            And people that are keeping up with the debate might hear something worth believing from either prospective then sure.

              "There is always someone learning something from a good debate."

            Preaching and screeching is a monologue.  It isn't any sort of discussion.  And, yes, the absence of a response to the points raised indicates there's nothing to look at or consider.  Of course, such is the victims fault.

              "I heard a black preacher once say that he loved it when the KKK had a rally. "

            Sure, it shows another side of the Bible.



            "A persons character is not revealed when he remains silent.

               And neither is it revealed when all is going as he planned."

            I don't know about that.  Such rejection is often seen by Xians as validation of their screed.

        7. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's not debating if neither side is remotely likely to be convinced or even partially persuaded by the other. Instead it's just listening to the sound of your own voice. Its only purpose therefore is sport.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            People are likely to be convinced or partly persuaded when the Xian provides objective supporting evidence for his/her statements.

            Their actions constantly indicate they speak falsely.

            That's why they are laughed at, they're the comedy act.

        8. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this
        9. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Debating christianity has always been idiocy.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Christianity has always been idiocy.

            It can be fun highlighting the drivel as the B.S. it is.

        10. Freeway Flyer profile image84
          Freeway Flyerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You could just as easily ask the question in reverse. Religious beliefs have little to do with logic. People gravitate toward the beliefs that work for them. Information that threatens to shake up those beliefs is generally tuned out.

          In your original question, you emphasized the importance of a real spiritual experience. Since this experience is entirely subjective, you should not claim that you know what is best for everyone else.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Its a TRUE CHRISTIAN[tm] guided by the holy spurt so it can't be wrong.

        11. arlenegabrielson profile image60
          arlenegabrielsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for your article!  I agree! It is really an eye opener when we share our faith on the www isn't it?  Keep up the good work and God Bless!

        12. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          christianity, itself, is a waste of time. Any "intelligent" person realizes that.

        13. nightwork4 profile image60
          nightwork4posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          fear of death is what i honestly believe causes many people ro believe in god and therefore the afterlife. it's one of the reasons that debating religious beliefs bothers many believers. being proven wrong about your beliefs would mean that you would have to face the fact that when you die , it's over.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They've been proven wrong over and over and over again.  The Eternal Life[tm] rubbish is the driver.

          2. stilljustwonderin profile image61
            stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If it is "over" when we die, that isn't scarey.  That is just a nothingness. 
            What drives us, is love.  The most intense love I have ever felt.  I was married for 21 years.  The love between a husband and wife, or parent and child, is nothing compared to that.

        14. simongrd77 profile image60
          simongrd77posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Amen I agree, Pratonix, ... I am on here to lift up Jesus and praise Him. My face book page has taken off because of doing this, I did not seek that but it just happened right when I needed others out there. I am finding there are many who know and love Jesus and we are having a wonderful time together. Jesus never debated long, He shut them up pretty fast every time. He did however seek out the hungry sheep and avoided the nay sayers or is it 'neigh' sayers.  Others will be drawn to us by the love we have to one another. Regards Simon

          1. vector7 profile image60
            vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Amen. Praise the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit!

            smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
              Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              He said If I be lifted up, then I will draw ALL men unto me.

              We do the lovin and He does the drawing smile

        15. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ..."is because of 'Christians' who are ignorant of spiritual truths and spiritual realities."
          Could ya give me just one example of a spiritual truth or reality?Just one pls TY
          Qwark smile

        16. Jason2917 profile image60
          Jason2917posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Pratonix,

          I'm not sure that arguing per se is a waste of time unless you are arguing with an arrogant attitude. Most people (yes, unbelievers are people too!) welcome a discussion if they feel like they are being treated with respect. Remember, Christ was meek and gentle and people were drawn to Him. We should be tenderhearted and polite if we want to represent Him properly.

          I just wrote this hub this evening that you might be interested in: http://hubpages.com/hub/Sharing-Christ- … nd-Respect

          Best regards

        17. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          How shall they hear without a preacher?
          Lots of times, "debate" is the only avenue through which non-believers do hear the Word.
          Believers can decide whether to keep up the debate of whether it's futile.

          1. VOICE CIW profile image80
            VOICE CIWposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            VOICE CIW
            God bless you Brenda Durham, you preach that Word! They cannot know the Word of God unless we witness to them. We are to debate with unbelievers with discernment, we are not to debate with atheists. God will let us know who will receive His Word and who will not. Matthew 7:6 reads, "Give not that which is Holy unto the dogs." I know that is strong language, but it is from the Word of God. What you said is true, you keep preaching it. Stay blessed.

            1. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Whats absolutely charming about that is how believers will preach those words from the mountain tops all the while shrugging off the responsibility of preaching them and tossing it over to their god because they are gods words, not their own. And then to top it all off, agree wholeheartedly that the words are true, so go right ahead and keep on preaching them. Hallelujah!  lol

        18. Titen-Sxull profile image93
          Titen-Sxullposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          As a former Christian let me state that there is no spiritual "truth" to get about Christianity. I once read the Bible exactly the way you stated I should, I attempted to reaffirm my faith by reading the entire Bible. Reading the Bible is one of the quickest ways to deconvert as it is a terrible disjointed mess of bad moral advice and unsubstantiated supernatural horrors (Slavery is condoned and God also does a lot of killing sometimes engaging in wholesale slaughter of innocents such as the Egyptian firstborn).

          So yeah, it is a waste of time for Christians to debate unbelievers. They should spend their time reading their Bible and thinking about what they've just read.

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            According to the bible, this god wiped our all but a handful of his creation because they didn't obey. This is psychosis pure and simple.

            1. VOICE CIW profile image80
              VOICE CIWposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Psalm 14:1 reads, "A fool hath said in his heart, there is no God." According to the Bible this God, don't make me laugh, you know who God is, your rejection of God is willful and due to the love of sin. I would tell you why God brought a flood on all creation, but  God says we are not to entrust holy teachings to unholy or unclean people (atheists and all those who refuse to believe). It is useless to teach Holy Precepts to people who don't want to listen and will only tear apart what you say.

              1. earnestshub profile image86
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That is because it is a bronze aged myth, not reality. It tears itself apart. smile

              2. 0
                just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know what brought me on to this thread, but I've got to tell you; I find your post out of line with the title. If you consider your behavior to be Christian behavior you might wander back and take a gander at the part spoken by the one you claim to follow. The attacks you've posted couldn't even be labeled a poor reflection, because there is not even a glimmer of Jesus' words in the intent that is shown in your posts.

                I'd have to agree with the atheist. Despicable behavior.

                1. VOICE CIW profile image80
                  VOICE CIWposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  just_curious, if you pick up the Bible and read it, you will see I am not out of line. Psalm 14:1 read it, also Matthew 7:6 read it, I quote Bible Scripture, I am not like you post my personal opinion and consider that truth. Truth comes from the Bible. I only replied to what a person says, if you can't handle it , then you have a problem, I don't post my personal opinions, but I quote the Bible. If you don't like what I said, then take it to God, because He said it.

                  1. earnestshub profile image86
                    earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    and you, like thousands of others don't even agree among yourselves as to how you interpret it. Do you assume it is all factual and literal?

                    If you do think so, you better read the OT again before you disappear in a puff of your own disbelief.

                  2. 0
                    just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I look to the example of Jesus, I don't search scripture for justification for unkindness. You can find anything you want in the text, to support anything you want to do. You simply have to draw the line at what the final intent was. Mine was always Love God, Love Your Neighbor. All the law is fulfilled.Makes it simple.

                    There is no justification in Jesus' words for hateful speech.I believe he was only unkind when speaking to the religious leaders which, oddly, you appear to be attempting to be at this point in this forum.

                    I don't expect you to see this point any more than the religious of that day saw Jesus'.

                    I'm not saying that there aren't some difficult voices here, I simply find it curious that one of the difficult voices claims to be speaking for God and is so sadly far removed in his philosophy from the one he claims as savior.

                  3. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Despicable behavior. One could substitute the bible for any book and make the same irresponsible statement.

                    If we have a problem with the bible or your god, that is indeed our problem. That does not give you the right to go around making threats and then handing over responsibility to someone else for the threats YOU made.

                    A huge two thumbs down for religious zealotry and lack of responsibility for ones actions.

        19. Dave Mathews profile image59
          Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Pratonix:  As a Christian I do not see it as a waste of time, trying talk with unbelievers. I have a duty to try and let them see that no matter what they may think, God is truly real and God loves them and wishes to be a part of their lives.

          1. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Why is it then, Dave, that the duty of believers fails miserably in trying to show their god is real? You've never accomplished that once as far as I've seen.

            Show me your god is real, Dave, and I will join you in your beliefs. smile

            1. Dave Mathews profile image59
              Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              what do you want,photos?

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this



                Well Dave, my understanding is that you have a personal relationship with your god. Is there any reason why you couldn't simply ask him to reveal himself to me? Think of the consequences of that, Dave. You wouldn't have to read a single post of mine criticizing your religion, in fact, you would have successfully made a convert.

                Is there any problem with making that request to your god, Dave? smile

                1. Dave Mathews profile image59
                  Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  There is no reason for me not to ask My God to reveal Himself to you the thing is though, if He were to do so, since you do not know Him, how would you recognize that He is infact God.

                  You might respond to Him as Scrooge responded to Marlee in Dicken's Christmas Carol and dismiss God as a piece of undigested meat or gravy?   God has no problem revealing himself to those who truly seek him out and desire to know Him.

                  1. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Wouldn't it be obvious? He would come to me and say that he is god. Simple.



                    Evidently, he does have that problem as many have sought him out only to find nothing.

                    Again, please ask him to reveal himself to me. If he is who you say he is, then he will make it clear to me and I will have no problem with that.

                    Perhaps Dave, you may have the wrong idea about those who don't accept any of the various belief systems. Many of them would be quite happy if indeed a god revealed himself to them, they would immediately recant their atheism and would wholeheartedly join that faith. No problem.

                    smile

                    1. earnestshub profile image86
                      earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      As would many others. Who doesn't want a free ride with answered prayers and eternal life as opposed to being burnt in hell?  lol

                    2. Dave Mathews profile image59
                      Dave Mathewsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Beelzedad: You are expecting God to appear to you or to others in a physical presence.He has never done this, for He is Spirit. No man has ever looked upon God in a physical form, except when Jesus the Son of God walked the earth, then one could see Him, talk with Him,  touch Him, hear Him. There will be a day when Jesus will return to earth again and at that time, again we will be able to see,hear, talk with Him again.

                      1. Beelzedad profile image60
                        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        That shouldn't matter in the least for an all-powerful god to take on any form he wishes. Let him take on a form of "spirit" - it really doesn't matter, if he is a god he will know what to do to make me realize he exists.

                        He must have revealed himself to you, Dave, or else you wouldn't be so adamant he exists. Why can't he do the same for others who wish to know he exists?

                        I think you're just making excuses, Dave. smile

            2. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              There is no reason to prove that God exists.

              Prove He doesn't.

              life = intelligence

              dead stuff = no life. no intelligence. no chance of life.

              smile

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, the same logical fallacy can be used for the tooth fairy, too. smile

                1. vector7 profile image60
                  vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Tooth fairy could have formed from the dead stuff you claim we came from, as the possibilities are endless with a theory right?

                  smile

            3. VOICE CIW profile image80
              VOICE CIWposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              VOICE CIW
              Beelzedad you said show you that God is real and you would join in Dave's belief. You know and I know that statement was made from the pit of Hell. How can Dave show you anything, when you have rejected God? The Bible says he who comes to God, must believe that He (God) is God. I know Dave does not believe what you say, you have rejected God, so all you do is sit back and try to tear apart what everybody else say. I don't waste my time with you athiests.

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What a terrible thing to say. Is that how you believers conduct yourselves? Is this how you show your teachings from your god?



                Yes, how can Dave show his god, that is indeed the question. It would appear you did not answer and only posted to show how despicable believers behave.

        20. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Pratonix

          Your assumption is specious and portrays you as being as being ignorant in ref. the use of English and quite possibly a fool.

          I'll try to enlighten you in ref. to to your use of the words "argue and debate."

          I'm almost sure that this will "swish" right over your head, but I'll give it a try.

          Here we go:

          "Debate" is to engage in argument by discussing opposing points.

          "Argue"  is to attempt to prove by reasoning.

          What is the purpose of "debate?" It is, of course, to prove a point with proofs and thereby, win!

          That would indicate that to "win" a debate (argument) one must provide proofs!

          How can a "debate" be won if what is being debated cannot be defined, except as "opinon," and ergo, no proofs can be provided pro or con?

          To debate religion would be, to me, an exercise in futility and only a "fool" would be involved.

          Are you a fool? If you "debate" religion, of course you are!  smile:

          Qwark

        21. fadedsnow profile image60
          fadedsnowposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Pratonix

          The character Satan in the bible is not allowed to do anything to humans without Gods permission. An example would be the story Job. One of the greatest tricks of the devil is to get Christians wasting their time, would mean that God allows this!

        22. ediggity profile image60
          ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think it's great to have debates about religion, it keeps everyone's mind focused on God whether or not they believe.  smile

          1. 69
            paarsurreyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am in favour of discussion and symposiums on a subject instead of the debates in which one speaks one's views on a given subject; then there is a question answer session at the end; and the speakers to whom the questions are addresses answer it. The audience are free to form their own opinions.

            It promotes peaceful dialogue and tolerance, the society is galvanized to unity on truth.

        23. qwark profile image61
          qwarkposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hey!
          Are christians "fools?"
          Is that what yer saying?
          Only a "fool" would "debate" religion!
          I don't think ya thought this question out before ya posted it.
          But then it would seem to be expected of a religious fundie who's realism resides within the bindings of a tome of fairytales named the bible.
          Hmmm?  smile:
          Qwark

      2. Misha profile image76
        Mishaposted 6 years ago

        No

        1. 59
          exorterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          yes, throw a few seeds, something just might grow from one of the seeds,
          do not argue, but talking is good

      3. pisean282311 profile image57
        pisean282311posted 6 years ago

        actually it is both way..one should not waste time in convincing or debating about religion and politics with any..religion works on faith and it is personal matter..non beliving too is personal matter..no matter how much an non believer would try to convince believer , it wont work ..same way believer can't make non believer , believe..so it is waste of time by both...in end..both end up being more convinced about their believes..

        1. sofs profile image87
          sofsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Conversion of heart is the work of the HolySpirit, not of man. If does not profit anything to get into arguments St Paiul says. Arguments and slamming each other  wins no one  over. This whole thing is not about religion, this is about a personal relationship with God , No one can convince others into it.  Please remember I cor 1:18,19 and what follows.
          He has given us a spirit of love and power and a sound mind..2tim 1:7
          I believe we need to live lives worthy of being emulated  and not having a war of words here. Preach with your life Is what I thing God wants us to do.
          Jesus himself did go about correcting the pharisees and scribes in his day
          This is my humble opinion.

        2. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          pisean282311posted 6 days ago

          "actually it is both way..one should not waste time in convincing or debating about religion and politics with any..religion works on faith and it is personal matter.."

          I agree religion works on faith and it is personal matter, but many Xians don't keep it that way and that's the problem.  Keeping it personal and private is the only avenue for 'winning.'

          What many Xians miss is what can be learned from the exploration of concepts.  The flip side is the destructiveness of the ramifications and repercussions of the concepts and claims.  Such obliterates Xian claims.


          The point of dismantling Xian screed is to show the terminal lack of substance.

          The elevation of 'Belief' and 'Faith' to a 'virtue' flat acknowledges the lack of connection to reality.

          "non beliving too is personal matter."

          Of course it is.  I've never seen anyone indicate otherwise.  There are many things I lack belief in.  Xians have the tendency to get upset their screed isn't given special treatment.


          ".no matter how much an non believer would try to convince believer , it wont work .."

          Of course not, as belief has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with emotion.  Reason and rationality doesn't enter the believer's universe on the subject.

          A person being a Xian doesn't bother me at all, but the reverse doesn't apply.

          "same way believer can't make non believer , believe..so it is waste of time by both...in end..both end up being more convinced about their believes.."

          A lack of belief isn't a belief no matter how much the Believer insists it is.  [shrug]

      4. waynet profile image45
        waynetposted 6 years ago

        Or rather, should unbelievers waste their time debating with Christians....?

        1. pisean282311 profile image57
          pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          quiet right...

        2. Pratonix profile image70
          Pratonixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "Or rather, should unbelievers waste their time debating with Christians....?"

          Unbelievers who waste their time debating with Christians in Christian forums are called time-wasters, and the gross (or chronic) unbelievers are called time-wastrels or wastrels, for short.

          1. pisean282311 profile image57
            pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            wow..what a judgement...

            1. srwnson profile image59
              srwnsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Actually we, as christians are not obligated to convince anyone to believe. That time will come for them. Christians should spend time on discovering Gods plans for us. There are those who God calls to speak to the non-believer. They are more qualified to do so. In My Opinion. (I exclude myself,) While I think if someone is open to the possibility of Christianity, we should tell them, (In our understanding of what we've learned,) Then direct them to someone more able to answer their questions.

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                srwnsonposted 8 days agoin reply to this

                [Actually we, as christians are not obligated to convince anyone to believe.]

                Of course not.  However, you are obligated to provide objective supporting evidence for your assertions.  Until then there's no reason to consider the bronze age droolings of any value.

            2. bsscorpio8 profile image61
              bsscorpio8posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Who truly judges but man? I know of no one who has died and came back to tell of God's judgement.

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                'God' is unqualified to judge anything.

                1. bsscorpio8 profile image61
                  bsscorpio8posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What is God "qualified" to do? What is your point?

                  1. 61
                    stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Something must first exist to be qualified to do anything.  My point was about "Gods Judgment.'

                    1. vector7 profile image60
                      vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Haven't seen any proof He doesn't exist.

                      1. Beelzedad profile image60
                        Beelzedadposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        And like the tooth fairy, you haven't seen any proof he does exist.



                        Why are you fabricating lies? It was YOU who said things were "formed from the dead stuff" not me.

                        Very sad indeed.

        3. nightwork4 profile image60
          nightwork4posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          it's not a matter of comvincing, it's a matter of pride. if you are sure and true then debating should be a no-brainer.

          1. 0
            sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hence, there is not such thing as a Christian that debates.
            No such thing as a humble Christian, all a matter of pride.

            1. 61
              stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And terminal insecurities.  Ohhhhh the monster under the bed's gonna get meeeeee.

        4. IntimatEvolution profile image82
          IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          This I completely agree with.  No they shouldn't.  I think it is a bigger waste of their time than ours.cool

        5. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, it isn't a discussion.  It's a dissection!

      5. SiddSingh profile image60
        SiddSinghposted 6 years ago

        No they shouldn't.

        Great you have finally realized the futility of preaching and debating.

      6. LeanMan profile image80
        LeanManposted 6 years ago

        I think all christians, muslims, jedi, and any other faith or non-faith should just keep their opinions to themselves then we could debate really important things like which celeb has the hottest body....

        1. pisean282311 profile image57
          pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol

        2. stilljustwonderin profile image61
          stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Isn't there an entertainment section?  You could probably find that discussion there.
          Personally, I think Johnny Depp is great eye candy.

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Johnny Depp needs a shave and a shower
            (see.. celebs cause arguments too!

            1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
              stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              A shower is always nice,
              The shave, that's the rugged look.  How ever some people can't carry it off very well.

              LOL  In my opinion, he is still nice to look at..  big_smile

              1. Greek One profile image80
                Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                i violently disagree!!!

                1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                  stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  big_smile big_smile big_smile

                  It is a good thing we all have different opinions.  If not, some people would never have any one.

                  1. Greek One profile image80
                    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I disagree with that assessment as well!

                    tongue

                    1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                      stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      big_smile
                      Well I disagree that you disagree!!!

                      1. Greek One profile image80
                        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        I agree !

      7. leeberttea profile image60
        leebertteaposted 6 years ago

        If you consider debating a waste of time then no, but this is a discussion forum and isn't the purpose to debate? Personally I think Christians should just live their beliefs and answer questions when asked. It shouldn't be their purpose to force their beliefs upon anyone. Be a christian first, set an example, and let others see how you live and behave and when asked tell them why. You'll likely get more people following you then trying to argue why being Christian is the only way.

        1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree, leeberttea.
          We have fun things to do and jobs and so forth.
          "You don't have to be religious to be religious" I say.

          Peace to you and thanks for being true :-)

        2. Etherealenigma profile image90
          Etherealenigmaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Amen Brother! You hit the nail right on the head!

        3. vector7 profile image60
          vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Words of sound advice.

          smile

      8. Rev Will profile image61
        Rev Willposted 6 years ago

        This is easy,  Tell them the truth and then move on.  Say your piece and then move on to the next.  Of 100 people you talk to you will only get a handful that will respond.  Do not waste time on the negative.

        1. Rev Will profile image61
          Rev Willposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So of us think that everyone can be saved.  This is wrong.  Most of the people who want to debate with us are never going to be saved and thats OK.  You threw them a lifeline and they did not accept it!  Bless them and wipe the dust from your feet and head for the next group!

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            LOLOLOLOLO

            ciao

            1. pisean282311 profile image57
              pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol

            2. 61
              stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Indeed.  The mental pretzeling  of Christians is quite amusing.  You can't *buy* entertainment like this!  big_smile

              Popcorn?

          2. Beelzedad profile image60
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If those groups were an ocean, it seems you are describing more of being a fisherman than a sailor. wink

        2. stilljustwonderin profile image61
          stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I was asked one time how I managed to get thru some of the things I went thru.  I simply said "God gets me thru."  And left it at that.  I answered her question.  If we try to force our beliefs on others, it will push them away.
          Before my husband was saved he went to church with me one day.  The decan came to him and pushed him into going up to the alter.  He wasn't ready. the Lord wasn't speaking to his heart.  That was the last time my husband attended  that church.  I couldn't blame him.

          The Lord saves, not us.  We can plant a seed, but we can't make them tend the garden.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Let's see.  The things you went through were scripted by God, eons ago.

            1 Thessalonians 5:18 (New King James Version)

            18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

            It reminds me of an old Honeymooners skit.

            Ralph: And just *who* took you to the hospital when you got hit with the baseball bat?

            Norton: You did, Ralph.  *After* you hit me with it!

            1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
              stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No, not that funny.  She was referring to my mental state.  How was I copeing with the trauma's that my loved ones were going thru.  She said she would be in the mental hospital.
              Things like one son having 3rd degree burns, another son having surgery on his chest, husband having brain surgery.  No, not quite as funny as the Honeymooners.

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                There was no humour in my response.  The response was straight facts and the 'Ralph hitting Norton with the baseball bat' is, in effect, God as the babble verse states.

                I'm sorry for the difficulties you're going through.  I'd wave my hand and fix all that, but I don't have that capability.

                It was your 'loving' God that hit you with the adversities in the first place.

                Let's see.  The things you went through were scripted by God, eons ago.

                1 Thessalonians 5:18 (New King James Version)

                18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

                Have you given thanks as the Bible says?

                1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                  stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you, but those were past difficulities.  They didn't all happen at once.  My family took turns having problems.
                  I don't blame God for what happened.
                  My son who got burnt.   He was wrestling around with a friend being silly with a can of lighter fluid in his hand.  He didn't realize he spilled it on his shirt.  He lite his lighter and caught his shirt on fire.  I blame him for what happened.  It may sound terrible to you, but yes, I did thank God that the burns weren't on his face.  It could have been much worse.
                  The son who had to have surgery on his chest?  That too was because of his poor decisions.  He was told to stay off a friends motorcycle.  He got on any way, wrecked.  I thanked God he came thru that.
                  Husbands brain anurism?  People are born with those.  Some times they burst, sometimes they don't.  I thanked God my husband survived it.  A lot of people don't.
                  I had prayed for years for my husband to be saved.  One year and 3 months after his brain anurism he was saved.  Three months later he past away.
                  We can let the bad things that happen in our lives beat us down, or we can continue on.  I choose to be thankful for the good things and continue on.
                  Yes, I give thanks.

                  1. 61
                    stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    SJW posted;

                    [ Thank you, but those were past difficulities.  They didn't all happen at once.  My family took turns having problems. ]

                    You're very welcome.  I was trying to get my point across while 'tap dancing,' as I didn't want you to think I thought the maladies were a good thing.


                    [ I don't blame God for what happened. ]


                    Whether you blame God, or not, is your affair.  The verse flat states the inequities were the 'will of God' and you were to give thanks for them.
                    I wouldn't have written anything along those horrible lines.

                    We all have the tendency to be beaten up by the 'School of hard knocks' called life.

                    Confucius say; "School of hard knocks leave rough edges."

                    Accidents, electrocution, chipped bones, dislocations, motorcycles, automotive high speed impact, massive amounts of damage, almost drowning more than once.  Was dying once and another time wouldn't have seen another sunrise.  Emergency surgery and a whole passel of other things Docs says would have killed anyone else.  [shrug]

                    I joke the 'Grim Reaper's' visited me several times and I've told him to 'Go to Hell,' and he's off to Washington, D.C..  big_smile

                    Manure occurrith.  This body's well beyond trashed.  Amazing anything works.  Still I have lots of fun and expand my horizons.

                    Wrote my first hub a couple of days ago.

                    I'm hoping to finish a copy of a full size master work 20 x 30 inches in a week, or so.  Its in oil paint.

                    As you can see, I too, keep on keeping on.  smile

                    1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                      stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      I joke the 'Grim Reaper's' visited me several times and I've told him to 'Go to Hell,' and he's off to Washington, D.C..  big_smile

                      Oh, I see.  So, that's your fault!  Why didn't ya send him some where else?  big_smile
                      (joking)
                      Yeah, we have all been thru the mill.  Sounds like you have had more than your share.  What's important now is that you have gotten thru it. Right?
                      (No, I'm not going to preach.  big_smile)
                      Painting?  Do you sell your art work, or hobby?
                      I am glad to hear that you are doing well now, and I will get over and read your hub.

                      1. 61
                        stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        Heh.  It was decades ago I sent the Grim Reaper, but he wouldn't stay long.  So, t'warnt me.  wink

                        It's important to my family and I that I made it through.  There's a whole lot of Xians who complain about it {not you}.

                        Yeah, I've been through the 'meat grinder' several times.  Not fun, and not something I'd wish on my worst enemy.

                        I've won awards for my artwork at the two county fairs I'm qualified to enter for several years.  However, I've not tried to sell my art work.  Having people see them in the county fairs suffices for me.

                        I posted the oils on canvas board "Cherry on Board" in the 'where are you from' type of artist area.

                        I maintain, but by no means am I in good shape.  I sleep a lot.

                        If interested I can post a couple examples of my work here, as I'm not trying to sell anything.

        3. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          But you don't tell the truth.  That's the problem.

        4. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Agreed so I post inspirational videos ;-) big_smile

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            More drivel you mean.

            You folks are more than welcome to your delusions.  Delusions are what they will remain until you objectively support your claims.

      9. SilentReed profile image88
        SilentReedposted 6 years ago

        We came here to discuss ??? The discussions become so contentious at times that I think the proper word if it exist should be disgust (ion). What  we get are a lot of rhetorical frippery and acoustics :-))

        1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          agreed SilentReed.
          Now you'll understand that you are spiritually not on the same path as me, but we can agree, can we not? :-)
          peace to you

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Now you've got it.  We are on different paths, but Xians like you refuse to leave it that way.

            You are more than welcome to walk your path in peace and quiet.  Now, extend the same courtesy to others.

      10. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

        I just want to get Mark in our camp, and then I'm done.

        I think he is coming around.. slowly but surely

        1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh...yeah.......you need your back up "bully".....
          tsk tsk
          you're not learning peace are you Greek One??
          shame

      11. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago

        Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

           I don't think so!!
          Christians should debate with Christians.
          Believers should debate with believers.

          That is how we learn and grow.
          That is the way that we refine our beliefs.
          That is how we eleminate misinterpretations.

          But when Zelous Atheist and Zelouss Religionist controll the floor ???  No progress is made.

           Yea it is !!  No it aint !!  YEA IT is !!!  NO  IT AIN"T !!! YEA  IT IT  IS !!!!    NO  IT  AIN"T   YEA  IT IS !!!!!!!
           Yea it is !!  No it aint !!  YEA IT is !!!  NO  IT AIN"T !!! YEA  IT IT  IS !!!!    NO  IT  AIN"T   YEA  IT IS !!!!!!!   Yea it is !!  No it aint !!  YEA IT is !!!  NO  IT AIN"T !!! YEA  IT IT  IS !!!!    NO  IT  AIN"T   YEA  IT IS !!!!!!!
           Yea it is !!  No it aint !!  YEA IT is !!!  NO  IT AIN"T !!! YEA  IT IT  IS !!!!    NO  IT  AIN"T   YEA  IT IS !!!!!!!

           And no real conversation happens

               
             Who causes conflict ????

        1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
          stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, it does no good to argue.  There are "Some"  people who have no respect for the fact that every one is entitled to their own belief.  That refers to Christian and non Christians.  The sarcasum , name calling, and offensive remarks begin.  Once that happens there is no real discussion.  Every one gets on the defensive and doesn't hear the other.  That's human nature.
          IT IS TOO  LOL

          If there is a forum titled NON Christian, I'm not going there, it isn't for me.  I know I wouldn't have a productive conversation..  I have my beliefs and no one will change them.

          1. Jerami profile image78
            Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I respect that.  If there was a forum concerning Mathmatics?
            It would be a discussion where everyone attempts to improve the understand of Math for everyone involved in that conversation.

              I don't know who turned discusion into debate.

              In depate it doesn't matter who is right. 
              Debate is about winning.
              Comunication is about shareing beliefs.

            1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
              stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If I wanted to discuss Mathmatics, I would find a topic concerning math.

          2. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            stilljustwonderinposted 4 days agoin reply to this

            No, it does no good to argue.  There are "Some"  people who have no respect for the fact that every one is entitled to their own belief.  That refers to Christian and non Christians.  The sarcasum , name calling, and offensive remarks begin.  Once that happens there is no real discussion.  Every one gets on the defensive and doesn't hear the other.  That's human nature.
            IT IS TOO  LOL

            If there is a forum titled NON Christian, I'm not going there, it isn't for me.  I know I wouldn't have a productive conversation..  I have my beliefs and no one will change them.  [end]

            There's discussion and exploration and then there's the general avenue Xians take-as seen very much in this thread which I find very amusing.  "Santa Claus" "Tooth Fairy" and more.

            You have your beliefs and are welcome to them.  You come by them not by the avenue of reason, and that's fine. 

            For instance a discussion/exploration could have you acknowledging points, but such isn't a change in belief.  That 'faith' thing, ya know.

            1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
              stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, it is a "faith" thing.  I understand that some people are more scientifically minded.  If ya can't "see" it, ya can't believe it.  My belief is more of the spiritual nature.  The spirit can't be examined with the eye, touched with the hand.  It can't be measured with scales, micrometers, or calipers. But we each do have a spirit.  That is where our emotions are.
              I have been asked many times to prove there is a God.  I can't produce a picture.  God is spirit.  That's the emotion thing again.  I have experiences I can tell, of course that is really nothing I can prove even tho I know they are real.  That is how I reason.  I went thru it, it is my reality.  Our experiences is what make us who we are.  If they are good experiences we take them and embrace them.
              I can discuss my faith with any one who wishes to discuss, maturely.   I don't want to argue about it.  We are each entitled to our own belief.  We all need to respect that.

              1. Beelzedad profile image60
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Emotions are physical in nature and based on the biochemical makeup of our bodies. They are not spiritual at all.



                Your belief that emotions are spiritual is not correct. That should be reason enough to question your other beliefs, However, as you say, you're entitled to embrace false beliefs. smile

                1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                  stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What I am trying to say is that it is our spirit that feels the emotion.  My body doesn't "feel"  sad, angry. or happy.

                  1. Beelzedad profile image60
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, it does. Those emotions are all physical in nature, no "spirits" required. Biology 101. smile

                    1. 0
                      klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      But how do you proof your feelings? Science can't proof you love your son, can it?

                      1. Beelzedad profile image60
                        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        Perhaps not, but it can measure the chemical states of the brain and explain the psychological aspects, while offering statistical evidence of our altruistic nature to our offspring. smile

                      2. ceciliabeltran profile image85
                        ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        You actually can. You'd be surprised at how accurate oxytocin levels are.

                        What the scientists can't know for sure is why.

                    2. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                      stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      I replied to my views on that to Mark.

                      Drought is over here.  Of course I need a boat to get to my car.  lol

                      1. 61
                        stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        I won't subject you to my caterwauling of;
                        Michael Rowed the Boat Ashore.... wink

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No offense intended - but all that shows is your lack of understanding of the relationship between your body and your mind. I can spot a depressed or angry person from a good distance away based on their physical demeanor and there are all sorts of emotions expressed by the body.

                    You may not have developed an understanding or awareness of this - I suspect because you already have all the answers and I find many professed Christians to be unable to understand the concept that the body is your temple as they usually seem very concerned about building a bricks and mortar one - but - trust me - your body "feels" and expresses all the emotions that your mind does.

                    How happy are your taste buds (body) when you have a first taste of a fresh strawberry and how "happy" does that make your spirit (mind)"feel"?

                    But you ignore this in favor of imagining  something that justifies your irrational belief system. Why?  wink

                    1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                      stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      No offense taken.  There is no doubt that our spirits and our bodies are connected.  If my spirit is happy, my lips will smile.  If my spirit is saddened, my eyes will cry.  My spirit feels and my body reacts.
                      No, I don't have all the answers.  There are lot of things I don't understand.
                      One thing I do understand, the temple is not made of brick , mortar, or even wood.  The temple, is my body.  One day, my spirit will leave my body and my body will lay down and decay.
                      My beliefs.  If you don't share them, that's ok.   People can be looking at the same thing and see it differently.

                      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                        Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        So - as far as you are concerned - your body merely reflects what your mind is feeling? As I said - you do not understand the symbiosis - it is a two way street and one does not exist without thye other.

                        There is no such thing as a spirit. There are just mind and body. You need to call it something different to support your beliefs.

                        One day your body and mind will both die. As everyone does - and then you will be no more. Thanks for respecting that fact.

          3. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            stilljustwonderinposted 22 hours agoin reply to this

            "Yes, it is a "faith" thing.  I understand that some people are more scientifically minded.  If ya can't "see" it, ya can't believe it. "

            Without objective supporting evidence there's no reason to consider the assertion valid.

            Unsupported assertions are overpriced at a penny per million. 

            What's worse is the Creator concept fails under its own broken logic, amongst other things.


            "My belief is more of the spiritual nature.  The spirit can't be examined with the eye, touched with the hand.  It can't be measured with scales, micrometers, or calipers. But we each do have a spirit.  That is where our emotions are."

            I've no problem with the way you see things.  Why should I?  You're not exporting them to objective reality or expecting others to accept them.


            "I have been asked many times to prove there is a God.  I can't produce a picture."

            You've nothing to prove.  Such is your personal stance.

            "God is spirit.  That's the emotion thing again.  I have experiences I can tell, of course that is really nothing I can prove even tho I know they are real. "

            Sight nitpik.  Belief, no matter how strong, do not equate to objective reality.  I suspect you're indicating that to you they are real.  In such a way I've no argument with.  The problem is the penchant for Xians to bait and switch and redefine words.  Please note that I'm not accusing you of that.

            "That is how I reason.  I went thru it, it is my reality.  Our experiences is what make us who we are.  If they are good experiences we take them and embrace them.
            I can discuss my faith with any one who wishes to discuss, maturely.   I don't want to argue about it.  We are each entitled to our own belief.  We all need to respect that."

            No argument from me.  As a matter of fact, I fully support you.  It's Xians like you I have great respect for.

            Please note the postal tonal change from many of my posts and reference the reasons for it.  So much for me being 'Anti-Christian' or 'Mad at the Lord' or other such projective excuses.  smile

            What can be interesting is to explore the theistic journey.  No defense of anything required as its an exploration of a personal journey.

            Please note I neither expect such or am  asking for such.

            People like you are a positive force for Xianity.

            Religion can be a beautiful thing.  Too bad its major use is destruction.  That avenue invalidates everything those Xians present.

            You may agree with me, or not.  Either way is your prerogative.

            Kind Regards and a tip-o-the-hat  :wave:

            1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
              stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well.  You have made this woman speechless.  Do you believe in miracles now?  LOL
              Yes, I have read some of your other post.  I thought you sounded angry and that anger was directed towards Christians.  I had assumed some one had pushed you too hard.  When I first saw your reply to me my first thought was, Oh No, not him.  I was surprised and very pleased to see it wasn't an attack, but a discussion.
              I will have no problem discussing my journey with you if you would like to hear it.  If not, that's ok too.  I know my story can be unbelievable to those who doesn't share my faith.
              Any way, I do thank you for your post.  I was touched, and honored.
              Ok, I wasn't totally speechless.  So, a small miracle?  big_smile

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                stilljustwonderin;

                [Well.  You have made this woman speechless.  Do you believe in miracles now?  LOL]

                Heh.  No.  smile


                [Yes, I have read some of your other post.  I thought you sounded angry and that anger was directed towards Christians.  I had assumed some one had pushed you too hard.]

                It was directed to those individual Christians, but it had nothing to do with their being Christians.  It had everything to do with their *actions.*  That is the difference. 

                Consider taking another look at a past reply of mine, which explains things, to you.  Its gentle and accurate.

                Now look at one of the 'angry' posts.  Look to see why the response is different.  What is the motivator/driver generating the sharp response.

                From what I've seen of the other non-believers their complaint is Xians who refuse to keep their religion as the internalized precious private thing it should be.  In effect, they're treating their religion worse than 'a penny in a parking lot' and I've very vocal about pointing that out.

                If a Christian has a question they should ask and not tell me what my position is.  When told they've my position wrong and refuse to correct their mistake-I will nail them on it.  If they continue then the jeering starts.  Its all treating them with the same lack of courtesy they show others.

                Another mistake is the constant assumption those who don't believe don't know anything about Christianity [or 'Paulinity'].'  Such is followed up with a refusal to listen and degenerates to 'blaming the victim.'  Of course, the other individual is going to protest!

                What would your reaction be to being lied about, misrepresented, and then blamed for the actions of the oppressor {speaker}?

                [When I first saw your reply to me my first thought was, Oh No, not him.  I was surprised and very pleased to see it wasn't an attack, but a discussion.]

                You put it into a discussion mode via your approach.  Such is what I consider to be 'exploration mode.'  That can be fun.

                [I will have no problem discussing my journey with you if you would like to hear it.  If not, that's ok too.  I know my story can be unbelievable to those who doesn't share my faith.]

                Sure.  I've no problem with discussing your journey.  I find it interesting to see how a person arrived at a certain point.  Such is something I would never ask about as that is your personal business.

                Gee, now you see how 'ferocious' I really am
                [eyes dance].  ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  Heh.


                [Any way, I do thank you for your post.  I was touched, and honored.
                Ok, I wasn't totally speechless.  So, a small miracle? ]

                Sure, if it makes you feel better.  smile

                Now, if you'll excuse me I must rest. -'beam out'-

                1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                  stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I do understand what your saying  I do think that some times it goes both ways. 

                  I have seen post by Christians on here and I can't believe what I am reading.  I have had disagreements with Christians on here too.  I have read some pretty self rightious, judgmental, condescending  posts made.

                  On the other hand, I have been in a conversation with other Christians and suddenly a non believer starts calling me foolish, ignorant.  Why?  Just because I believe differently?  I have had a non believer trying to bait me into telling them that they are going to hell.  I am not their judge. 

                  We are all entitled to our beliefs.  I respect that.  My faith is precious to me, as a non believers right to not have faith is precious to them.

                  You asked me what I would do if some one lied about me, misrepresented me.  Actually that happened to me not very long ago.  I called all parties involved and told them the truth.  Then, that night when I said my prayers I asked God to forgive the person who told the lie.

                  If you would like to read something that confirmed my faith I wrote a hub about an experience.  I understand you may try to rationalize it, make some since of it.  Just know, that even if it makes you think that I am crazy, that it is the truth.  I try to put myself in other peoples shoes and think how they would feel.  Please do that.  Put your self in my shoes and imagine if that happened to you.  Knowing, that your not crazy.  Maybe then you can understand how I can believe so strongly in someone I can not see.

                  I hope you rested well and feel great.  Have a nice day!

                  1. 61
                    stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    SJW posted;

                    [ I do understand what your saying  I do think that some times it goes both ways.  ]

                    Of course.


                    [ I have seen post by Christians on here and I can't believe what I am reading.  I have had disagreements with Christians on here too.  I have read some pretty self rightious, judgmental, condescending  posts made. ]

                    Yep, and they're being shown the same discourtesy and contempt they show others. I've found the posts by Christians you find unbelievable to be mind numbingly common.

                    It's the posts by Christians like you I find uncommon.


                    [ On the other hand, I have been in a conversation with other Christians and suddenly a non believer starts calling me foolish, ignorant.  Why?  ]

                    Quite often the person was a theist enraged at the years of betrayal, the years of lies, and rampant hypocrisy.  The depths of such reaction can be astounding.  It can take years to work through it all.


                    [  Just because I believe differently?  I have had a non believer trying to bait me into telling them that they are going to hell.  I am not their judge. ]


                    [ We are all entitled to our beliefs.  I respect that.  My faith is precious to me, as a non believers right to not have faith is precious to them. ]

                    Your beliefs are your own, yes.  You demonstrate your faith is precious to you.  Other Christians treat their faith with less  value than the penny in a parking lot.

                    My lack of faith is merely that.  There's nothing 'precious.'  Theism is merely one of many things I lack belief in.  It has no importance and its not something I think about until some theist {not you} brings it up and insists its objective reality and/or that the tenets of said religion apply to me.  *That* is when you see me take the steps which had your cringing.  Its the actions of those specific Christians which are being shredded.


                    [ You asked me what I would do if some one lied about me, misrepresented me.  Actually that happened to me not very long ago.  I called all parties involved and told them the truth.  Then, that night when I said my prayers I asked God to forgive the person who told the lie. ]

                    Sorry it happened, but I see you followed your faith in resolving the issue.  Well done.  smile

                    [ If you would like to read something that confirmed my faith I wrote a hub about an experience.  I understand you may try to rationalize it, make some since of it.  Just know, that even if it makes you think that I am crazy, that it is the truth.  ]

                    I'll take a look another day, although you may have to remind me.  Crazy?  Not at all.  Such would be how you reacted/came to terms with something.  That the resolution worked for you is what's important, in my view.


                    [ I try to put myself in other peoples shoes and think how they would feel.  Please do that.  Put your self in my shoes and imagine if that happened to you.  Knowing, that your not crazy.  Maybe then you can understand how I can believe so strongly in someone I can not see. ]

                    Oh, I do understand.  Its not foreign to me, as I would have thought you'd have realized by now.  And, no, indicating you didn't realize it isn't a negative.  Its more along the lines an area many Christians don't think to consider.

                    [ I hope you rested well and feel great.  Have a nice day! ]

                    Thank you, and you as well.  I sleep a lot as driving my body like this takes a lot of energy.

                    1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                      stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      Stoney posted
                           It's the posts by Christians like you I find uncommon.

                      I am sure you will read post by me that you will shake your head at.  We do have different beliefs.  I'm sorry, but I do not see air.  big_smile  Yeah,  I'm not scientifically minded.  My views are really rather simple.

                           My lack of faith is merely that.  There's nothing 'precious.'

                      Your "right" to not have faith is precious, no?  Not the lack of faith, but the right to choose.
                           .
                            It has no importance and its not something I think about until some theist {not you} brings it up and insists its objective reality and/or that the tenets of said religion apply to me

                      The thing is, it is a reality to us.  My faith is real to me.  How ever, no one should try to push their faith on another.  It doesn't work that way.  Like when a deacon nagged my husband into going up to the alter.  He actually pushed him away.  Some Christians need to see that.  Some know it, some don't.

                           I'll take a look another day, although you may have to remind me.  Crazy?  Not at all.  Such would be how you reacted/came to terms with something

                      Are ya sure?  I know you have read it.  LOL   That's ok.  I think that is one of the times that you would have to be in my shoes.  I warned ya!  big_smile

                      Get some rest.

                      1. 61
                        stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        Ah, but you can see air.  Dust and sand storms.  Dust devils, hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones, twisters.  Air carrying dandelion seeds, smoke, rainbows, sunsets and such.

                        Again, your views are your own.  Do I agree with them?  It would be a case of sometimes yes, sometimes no.

                        I can no more believe in the xian superstition than I can physically flap my arms and fly cross-country.  There's no 'choice' involved.

                        The freedom *from* religion aspect protects xians from other superstitions.

                        Your faith is *real* to you, yes.  The point is whether one's faith is a precious private matter or is it being forced upon those outside the faith.  The latter are those I challenge and dissect.

                        I did read your hub, but it was well after the post you responded to.  I did 'recharge my batteries', and thank you.  smile

            2. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What is Xianity? lol

              You that afraid of something you claim isn't there?

              Christ is the center of the system.

              Or I could just say Xiest... I guess if it's a debate thing..

              smile

      12. donotfear profile image91
        donotfearposted 6 years ago

        Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?
                       
        NO, I don't thing they should.

        What would the church lady say?

        http://pastorron7.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/church-lady.jpg

      13. Jerami profile image78
        Jeramiposted 6 years ago

        Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

        Should a squirrel waste its time debating with a box turtle?

        Should a teddybear try to convert a Grizzly bear?

        Should a Grizzly bear   "WISH"   it were a teddybear?

           Who is right ???  The grizzly bear or the turtle??


           Just being silly !!!

           But really ; ...  a rattle snake has to want to be petted or ya caint pet it.

      14. Pratonix profile image70
        Pratonixposted 6 years ago

        "Some of us think that everyone can be saved.  This is wrong.  Most of the people who want to debate with us are never going to be saved and thats OK.  You threw them a lifeline and they did not accept it!"

        Thanks, Rev Will. Well said, well done. It's just that the shallow sloppy lovey-dovey 'christians' won't be happy with your first two statements. The hardened unbelievers recognize the truth of your next two statements; but they are so caught up in sin, that unless God grants them mercy and deliverance, they are doomed.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Pratonixposted 4 days ago

          "Some of us think that everyone can be saved.  This is wrong.  Most of the people who want to debate with us are never going to be saved and thats OK.  You threw them a lifeline and they did not accept it!"

          Thanks, Rev Will. Well said, well done. It's just that the shallow sloppy lovey-dovey 'christians' won't be happy with your first two statements. The hardened unbelievers recognize the truth of your next two statements; but they are so caught up in sin, that unless God grants them mercy and deliverance, they are doomed.  [end]

          The usual lying Xian rubbish from start to finish.  How boring.  What is it with you people and your love of bearing false witness?  Y'all follow your father Satan well.

      15. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago

        bottom line is we are all Christians here.. and as such, we should all get along

        1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
          stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, exactly.  No one agrees 100% with any one.  We can still respect each other.  We can agree that we can disagree.

          OH NO!  Did we agree? yikes

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            nope.. you had me for a second.. but we still disagree... VIOLENTLY

            1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
              stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well I do hope you aren't mentally punching me in the nose.  I refuse to mentally bleed.  And you can't make me!!!

              1. Greek One profile image80
                Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                i am going to give you electronic gonorrhea then

                1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                  stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, I have tried to think of a way to beat that, but I can't, so........................
                  I concede, you win.







                  ( not ! )

                  1. Greek One profile image80
                    Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    i love surrender!!
                    (even the fake, not authentic kind)

                    1. stilljustwonderin profile image61
                      stilljustwonderinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                      As long as I get the last word that is all that matters.  big_smile

                      1. Greek One profile image80
                        Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                        agreed! tongue

        2. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          YEAH RIGHT GREEK YOU'RE AN ATHEIST

          1. waynet profile image45
            waynetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Blimey, Christians can't half shout when they want to!

          2. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            THEN WHY DO I WEAR THIS CROSS AROUND MY NECK !?!!?!

            1. 61
              stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Because its yours to bear?  big_smile

      16. Rishy Rich profile image79
        Rishy Richposted 6 years ago

        No need to argue in a creation science fair...

        http://thearmchairantichrist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/creationism.gif

      17. Richard Craig profile image76
        Richard Craigposted 6 years ago

        I'm an atheist.  I don't mind religious people, it's just when they try to force you to believe in something you never will.

        1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          SAME HERE , I'M CHRISTIAN AND DON'T LIKE THESE ATHEISTS TRYING TO FORCE ME TO BELIEVE IN THEIR STUFF.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            A lack of belief is just that, nothing more.

            Indicating personal beliefs is one thing.

            When said items are presented as objective reality that's a different situation and can, and will, be challenged.

            Perhaps this will help you understand.  It is one thing when you are in a church where all are of one mind concerning your religion.

            It is entirely different when such is presented where your audience is not of 'one mind.'

            In short, you are a Xian and I am not.  It costs us both a dollar, or so, for a cup of coffee.  Our individual statuses are irrelevant and immaterial.

            Xians, themselves, are without theism when it comes to all other deities.  The only difference is I lack belief in your deity as well.

            1. vector7 profile image60
              vector7posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It's ok if your a Xiest, you don't have to believe.

              smile

      18. skyfire profile image72
        skyfireposted 6 years ago

        Christians should pray more instead of debating with non-believers. Prayers can increase online earnings as well. It's proved here on hubpages.

      19. Etherealenigma profile image90
        Etherealenigmaposted 6 years ago

        I used to visit an antheist vs christians site, and it was sad to see how many newbies got sucked into debates, heated arguments, and extreme verbal exchanges to the demise of their own credibility.

        I read several posts thoroughly in the forum and examined the attacks. When I finally decided to respond to a forum question, I was fully prepared for the onslaught, and they couldn't budge me.

        Their methodology is simple. They attack with the purpose of upsetting the logic, and triggering an emotional response. Every time they got a christian cursing, they would say, "You're no christian! You're just as bad as any of us! Why should we believe you?!"

        When they attacked me, they called me a "Backwoods, bible-thumper," among other things, most of which I didn't respond to. Since, unlike most of the believers in there, I had not come with an agenda to convert anyone, seeing as how that job belongs to the Spirit; I had not quoted any scriptures, but simply talked with the person (agnostic) that was asking the questions and sincerely looking for answers.

        Since I had not quoted any scriptures, but simply had a conversation in which I explained a few things in life (in general) via scriptural principles; I told the one who called me a backwoods bible thumper to tell me what backwoods had I stated that I was from, and what biblical scripture had I thumped or quoted?

        They couldn't answer that because I had done neither. They could only curse all sorts of obscenities at me to try to rile me, but that failed to work, because I simply ignored those who were incapable of having a respectable conversation with me.

        I don't get into those sorts of debate, because they are pointless. Everyone is entitled to their point of view. If someone wishes to examine what I believe and has serious questions, which sometimes agnostics do, then I will invest time answering them to the best of my knowledge; but I refuse to waste time on people who staunchly don't believe, and are just looking for a donkey to pin a tail onto. I'm not going to lower myself to their level for their entertainment. Neither am I going to try to force my views on anyone else. To me, that equates to disrespect.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Elsewhere there was a time two Xians meandered in with a question.  After all this time I don't remember what they were.  Both were courteous and I was courteous in return.

          Both questions were fine, but I realized the answer could have an effect on their faith.  I warned both about it and gave them a chance to withdraw their question.

          One did withdraw.  The other thanked me for the warning and did want an answer.  S/he had a couple of follow up questions and meandered on his/her way.

      20. katiem2 profile image60
        katiem2posted 6 years ago

        Those convinced against their will
        Are of the same opinion still...

      21. Pratonix profile image70
        Pratonixposted 6 years ago

        I'm drawing the attention of Christians on HubPages to the Opening Post:

        One of the greatest tricks of the devil is to get Christians to waste their time in arguing and debating with unbelievers. Unbelievers will not understand Christianity, unless God opens their eyes (the eyes of their understanding).

        One way of knowing the truth is to humbly and sincerely open the Bible and read it (preferably on one's knees!), asking God for revelation and wisdom. God is gracious and He will speak to the one who humbles himself.

        The problem with arguments and debates is that many 'Christians' themselves don't know Christ and they spend so much time arguing for their Christian religion, without having a first-hand experience of the living and loving Saviour.

        It is because of 'Christians' who are ignorant of spiritual truths and spiritual realities (they may be very religious, but what is the use?) that forum discussions end up being pointless and wasteful. First and foremost, Christians should know who Christ is; this knowledge comes by the living experience of having Him dwell in one's heart through the Holy Spirit. Read John's Gospel and get to know spiritual reality!

        1. puebloman profile image61
          pueblomanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Lets start all over again, shall we? I agree with Mark. The humility in these posts is humbling. Although pride is supposed to be the greatest sin of all, there is in fact nothing so puffed up with pride as a christian in full sail.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thing is they don't see it.  Nor do they see the terminal contempt they show for others.

            Such contempt and discourtesy is mirrored back and the Xian then natters about the other(s) hating god, or some such.  Deity had nothing to do with the negative response while the Xian had everything to do with it.

        2. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Da debil made em doit! lol lol lol

          This is funnier than a bucket of monkey's bums! lol

      22. glendoncaba profile image82
        glendoncabaposted 6 years ago

        To think I used to lose my sleep in discussions here. 

        Mind you I learned a lot, but most of the time I was learning that there are better ways to share the gospel.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It is polite to 'share the gospel' with those who request it.

          It is quite rude to blast it out to an audience uninvited.  Such shows great discourtesy and contempt for others.

          It's also quite contemptuous to consider any person or group you face to have zero familiarity with the concepts and teachings of your religion.

          Its also amusing when the Xian doesn't follow the teachings them self, but  yet expect others to follow it.

      23. Cagsil profile image82
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago

        Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

        Actually, any Christian who debates their faith are not actually debating their faith, they are defending their faith, because they argue from a lower position than the unbelievers.

        Christians argue from a faithful position supported by just faith and nothing else. Therefore, they have to defend their faith.

        Faith isn't something to project forth, it's a defensive position.

        Truth and facts are the only thing to project forth and no Christian can claim facts or truth, because their faith is based solely on assumption and nothing more.

        Enough said, argue amongst yourself. That's the truth. smile

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Indeed it is the truth! smile

      24. Andrew0208 profile image60
        Andrew0208posted 6 years ago

        @poster, either ways, no need to debate. One says there's God and another says there's not, on that platform the can never agree. But when both walk in love and throw into bin the religion of this world, they can agree.

        This great love virtue radiates and works for me pretty well amongst many atheist friends. As a believer, you were never sent by Jesus Christ to condemn supposed unbelievers and force them to believe. It goes beyond religiously preaching of the Word...The Energy of the Spirit does the yielding and converting not the debates.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          One says there's God and the other asks for concise definitions, objective supporting evidence, as well as the resolving of broken logic, begged questions, and furious hand waving.

          The terminal lack of support by the theist and the resulting victimization of the person who lacks belief doesn't help the theist's case.

          Religion can be a beautiful thing, but not in its common destructive use.

          As a believer many do believe they were so sent to force and condemn.  One notes 'Jesus' isn't restraining them.

          The 'energy of the spirit' is word salad.  The Bible flat states many times all are mere actors in a pointless play hitting their marks and spouting their lines as scripted eons ago.

          That a person is a Xian is their business.  Unfortunately, so many Xians haven't the courtesy to extend the realization that another persons lack of belief or worships a different deity is their business.

          *That* is the problem.

      25. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago

        Love rules!
        Religion and religious megalomania have nothing to do with love! smile

        1. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
          Kangaroo_Jaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Earnest mate, did we bring beer to this here shindig???? Or did we forget again?

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I have a few dead cold VB's Kanga, there ya go, get that inya! smile

            1. Kangaroo_Jase profile image80
              Kangaroo_Jaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Bewdy mate, to your health and to the Republic Of Melbourne wink

              1. earnestshub profile image86
                earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Should we resuscitate the thread? smile

      26. 0
        sandra rinckposted 6 years ago

        I never heard of such a thing; a Christian that debates? lol

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol I must say that would be a new experience! smile

      27. brotheryochanan profile image60
        brotheryochananposted 6 years ago

        The problem doesn't actually lie within the christians scope of things but rather within the lifeless, factless, unsupported allegations and assumptions of the unbelievers.
        I have seen some lengthy and pretty answers to unbeliever questions - only to be swined with a petty, useless one liner. There is neither debate nor willingness to debate nor knowledge to debate in any of them and because of their lack of knowledge or any insider details, even an iota of religious common sense, they can only lash out with insipid, dull, provoking short sentences. They are unwilling to research and come to the table with even a decent question.
        Yet in their vast egos of themselves all puffed up as the all knowing and totally true deity of their understanding, they tell us our ideas are ridiculous and that we are deceived and living a lie, when it is so obviously and blatantly in plain sight, that the unbelievers are the ones who are not only deceived about their beliefs, for many do not even have a belief but they are deceived about their importance in christian threads.
        Thank God i am a christian.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          brotheryochanan unrepentently lied his arse  off 5 hours ago

          The problem doesn't actually lie within the christians scope of things but rather within the lifeless, factless, unsupported allegations and assumptions of the unbelievers.
          I have seen some lengthy and pretty answers to unbeliever questions - only to be swined with a petty, useless one liner. There is neither debate nor willingness to debate nor knowledge to debate in any of them and because of their lack of knowledge or any insider details, even an iota of religious common sense, they can only lash out with insipid, dull, provoking short sentences. They are unwilling to research and come to the table with even a decent question.
          Yet in their vast egos of themselves all puffed up as the all knowing and totally true deity of their understanding, they tell us our ideas are ridiculous and that we are deceived and living a lie, when it is so obviously and blatantly in plain sight, that the unbelievers are the ones who are not only deceived about their beliefs, for many do not even have a belief but they are deceived about their importance in christian threads.
          Thank God i am a christian.  [end]

          Gotta love the penchant of Christians to project their weaknesses onto others.  Such is Xian 'humility,' 'honesty,' and 'humanity.'

      28. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago

        You seem to feel they are important enough to keep defending your faith to the point of misrepresenting all who do not hold your ridiculous belief in the sky fairy. smile

        1. brotheryochanan profile image60
          brotheryochananposted 6 years ago in reply to this
        2. Greek One profile image80
          Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          OK... fine... $2

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol lol I can't resist a bargain, OK I'll run the old ute on LPG. smile

        3. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Bro's post is right below yours and it shows up on my monitor as blank.  As you're responding to him its evident he wrote something. 

          He's not the only one who's posts sometimes come up blank.  Any idea why?

          Thank you.

          1. Deaconess profile image59
            Deaconessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, he has posted a few replies to my own comments before that show up blank to me as well. I don't know why either. Maybe he went back and edited it blank?

            1. 61
              stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If so, then there would be nothing to be responded to.  [puzzled]

      29. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago

        Satanic whispers??????????????????????????????
        People who don't cop your rot are satanic whisperers???????????
        lol lol lol

        You're a riot! Please! I'll hurt myself. lol lol lol

        1. aguasilver profile image86
          aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You are hurting yourself anyway, so laugh away Earnest, laugh until you cease to exist. sad

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Is that another way of showing love? lol lol lol

            You keep accidently showing who you really are and how your "love" works.

            Just another hate filled religionist eh? lol! smile

            1. aguasilver profile image86
              aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So Cagsil's comment:

              "Oh please, if the truth bit you in the A$$, you wouldn't know the difference, unless you are pretending now."

              Was reasoned debate huh!

              You may notice that I put a sad face on my post to you, for I am sad that you are where you are, not hate filled, I hate no one except Satan....and his minions.

              It's obvious that you unbelievers are in a feeding frenzy now, so I will dust my feet.

              It's not our fault that you find yourself in opposition to God, and much as we may feel sorry for you, we do not have to take abuse either.

              Is that uncaring... no not at all, its dealing with you by your own measure, you pretend to be all wonderful to each other, then scorn, mock, denigrate, insult and call believers names for refusing to buy your version of 'truth'.

              According to recent posts, we are stupid is the softest comment I could see, when in reality most of us posting here have been where you are and escaped.

              Sorry that you get offended when folk try to explain why you are in danger, and find it weird that your response to that is to blame them for telling you that a shark is circling where you are swimming unaware.

              "Look out there's a shark about to devour you"

              "How can you be so intolerant and unloving, you are hateful for telling me, besides which there is no such thing as a shark"

              Yeah, that makes sense.... have fun, I am off for a swim, in shark free waters!

              1. 0
                sandra rinckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Oy Vey! You are the shark.

                1. Cagsil profile image82
                  Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  lol lol I've been saying that for months now. lol

      30. alphonsians93 profile image56
        alphonsians93posted 6 years ago

        Actually they are not wasting time, they are helping people to be on the right path again.  Serving God is spreading his words and that is not wasting time, that is what we called following the path of Jesus.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh arrogant and self righteous xian, you are wasting time and there's no reason for anyone sane to accept your drivel as having any connection with reality.

          According to other superstitions, you-personally, are on the wrong path and you arrogantly and sinfully deny the rightful deity construct.

          If you really want to serve 'God' and spread his word tis best you spread it on farmers fields.

        2. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, I'm going to do it again.  In all these posts so far, no one has acknowledged that JESUS himself said that if you speak the truth and it is not accepted or acknowledged or even considered, you shake the dust from your feet and move on.  And in all honesty, following Jesus is not about TELLING his story.  It's about living His words in your life.  The more quietly you do so, in my opinion, the better.  People are convinced far more by example than by advice.

          I have no interest whatsoever in debating the existence of God.  I do, however, want to live as He's asked me to.  And, frankly, because it makes me better and it makes life better.  There's the possibility that I could kick the bucket and find out it's all a big, cosmic joke.  But, you know what?  I've lived a better life for it and been better to my fellow human beings because of it.  I haven't talked them to death about how wrong they are to not believe.

          1. 0
            just_curiousposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well said motown. I know I run my mouth here, and you might think I'm blind to your point; maybe so on some levels. But conversion is not my goal. It isn't my place to assume I know what is best for others. I do know it is my place to find what is best for me. Which is why I somewhat relish the posts of the nay sayers. They have a refreshingly odd outlook that challenges the way I think.

            1. 0
              Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              just_curious - I don't think you're blind to my point at all.  I think you're truly and honestly exploring your beliefs.  That's admirable. 

              I've just chosen after years of being put on the defensive to actually follow the sound advice that I've been given about not "arguing" or "debating" religion and politics.  I said in another forum post that I had taken my turn in the forums here in the beginning, but chose to abstain after I saw the viciousness with with BOTH sides chose to treat each other. 

              I don't have room for that.  Insults, name-calling, condescending attitudes, and just flat out cruelty make my heart hurt.  I read a LOT of what goes on in here, just don't respond often.  Mostly because it all becomes about creating a fictional biography of the person to whom you're responding and then attacking them based on what you THINK they believe and how you THINK they've come to believe it.

              Post on, sister!  Your skin is thick enough to handle it, and that's what makes the difference for you!

              smile

          2. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Just a quick edit, or apology, rather.  Someone did, in fact mention the "shake the dust from your feet" thing.  I think it was Judah's daughter.  I didn't read through the entire thread before I posted. 

            smile

      31. Nick B profile image85
        Nick Bposted 6 years ago

        See, they're so insecure they can't stand to think that someone out there might be having some fun and once again, they're trying to beat the shit into us.

        You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Similarly, you can spout BS all you want, but you can't necessarily get a single one of us to believe you.

        There's more to Christianity than just reading the Bible and going to church on Sundays. Doing that doesn't mean you can act like a complete wanker the rest of the week

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Sure they can delightfully and pridefully act like complete wankers any day, or night, of the week.

          You see, they've got this "Great Commission" to complete, although events were set in stone eons ago.  Rejection is seen as a validation of 'persecution' and 'rejection of the righteous.' 

          They can also 'cast the magic spell' and have all their 'sins' wiped off the slate.  So much for morality or taking responsibility for their actions.


          In their binary fantasy world you're either Xian or the spawn of Satan.  Of course, those who don't believe as they do are also tools of Satan or deluded by Satan.

          Its never them who could be tools of Satan or deluded by that fictional figure.

          Binary logic often fails in non-binary situations, but their grasp of that fact, and facts in general, lacks opposable thumbs.

          The 'God Botherers' are terminally insecure and seek the 'validation' of numbers.  If such a method of validation was correct their diet would consist entirely of excrement.  After all, 50 million flies can't be wrong.

      32. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago

        What a great post! I'll let that one rest on it's own merit too! smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          This one is particularly funny. He doesn't understand his book, pretends he is not speaking for himself (he speaks for god) and says he hates me and you, because he thinks we are satan's minions. I don't recall the guy he has a "personal relationship with" saying anything about hating everyone who disagrees with you.

          No wonder the Romans used to feed them to the lions. Imagine what these guys were like when they had to be in your face to tell you this garbage. Anything for a bit of peace and quiet. lol

          It really is a sad, disgusting religion. They do not see why they cause so much ill will though. Blinded by Jesus and inured to their ability to cause offense. Really sad. sad

          1. aguasilver profile image86
            aguasilverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            If you are Satan's minions, so be it, you identified yourself as such.

            If the cap fits, wear it.

            You make a good doubles team, and provided you keep to the same old script, you are simply boring and not dangerous.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Please stop lying about what I said Daddy. I know that you do not have to follow your God's instructions yourself, but I still thought bearing false witness was a sin? Oh well - guess they only apply to us unbelievers.

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Aqua's hoist on his own petard.  He's established a hefty track record as being one of 'Satan's Minions.'

                Blasted ignorant, prideful, and cowardly lying hypocrite he's shown himself to be.

                1. earnestshub profile image86
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  He never spots his projections, nothing unusual about that.


                  Neurotic, but not unusual. smile

                  1. 61
                    stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Its mind numbingly common.  :\

      33. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

        “Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?”

        Neither will change the mind of the other. Ever.

        However, there is nothing wrong with debating for its own sake; imho.

      34. habee profile image90
        habeeposted 6 years ago

        In answer to the original question: No. You can't and shouldn't "force" your beliefs on others. Religion is a very personal choice.

        1. Dave Barnett profile image61
          Dave Barnettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          if you are "directed" to unbelievers, then go to the unbelievers, What good does it do to spread good news (Gospel) among those who already know these things. Better to plant a seed where it could take root, rather than to cast it among the grain that is already for the harvest.

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            What they spread is best put on a farmers field.

      35. pylos26 profile image77
        pylos26posted 6 years ago

        Pratonix wrote:

        Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

        I say might as well...the whole idea of christianity is little more than rubbish anyway.

        1. ceciliabeltran profile image85
          ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          the whole idea of rubbish is rubbish too.

          1. 0
            klarawieckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            But, Cecilia! The fact that you think rubbish is rubbish is absolute rubbish! lol wink

      36. waynet profile image45
        waynetposted 6 years ago

        Why limit it to people named Christian....it's a bit namist!

      37. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
        schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago

        PERSONALLY I CAN'T STAND ANY OF YOU, IT MAKES ME SICK
        BUT I HATE LOSING AN ARGUMENT OR DEBATE AND YOU PEOPLE JUST WON'T SHUT UP!!!!!!!!

        1. schoolgirlforreal profile image77
          schoolgirlforrealposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          NO I'M OK W/ THE PEACEFUL PEOPLE (INCLUDING BOTH)
          ITS THE RUDE ARROGANT AS*ES I WANT TO VOMIT!!

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You mean the thinkers who have seen your hostility and disagree with your personal version of the fairy in the sky?

            You hate. Most disbelievers don't seem to enjoy that, or your version of the biggest pile of psychotic crud ever written. smile

            The biblical god could walk under a carpet and not leave a bump! lol

          2. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            NO I'M OK W/ THE PEACEFUL PEOPLE (INCLUDING BOTH)
            ITS THE RUDE ARROGANT AS*ES I WANT TO VOMIT!!"

            Look in the mirror oh rude arrogant arse while you vomit yourself up.  You're anything but peaceful, but blame others for the results of your actions.

            I do hope you don't have access to automatic firearms.

            What a series of childish tantrums!

            [monster grin]

        2. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, head case, people are responding to the hatefulness of people like you.  We know about your institutional delusions.  So shut up about them.

          Now, she's indicated some accidental honesty.  Her ire is generated by "BUT I HATE LOSING AN ARGUMENT OR DEBATE"

          At least she's admitting she's got nothing to look for or examine.

          [guffawing at her]

      38. JulieBMack profile image59
        JulieBMackposted 6 years ago

        I have not read through all of the comments.  But, here is my input - YES!  I do not think it is a waste of time because it is what you should do as a Christian. (Mat 28:19, Mark 16:15, 2Tim 4:2)

        While we do not want to push it down anyone's throat, we should handle it on a case by case basis with understanding, patience, and nonjudgmental attitude!! Nothing wrong with a HEaLTHY debate, as long as it does not get heated or is not going anywhere.  Use yor best judgment.

        You never know what may sink in, even if it happens later on. You may influence someone in a way you did not realize.  As long as you are giving them valid answers to the questions they seek and not telling them things like they will just go the Hell if they do not believe, it may have an impact!

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, Christians are ordered to show terminal disrespect to everyone else.  In effect, you folks burst into someone's house, defecate on the carpet and then can't understand the negative response.

          What you should do, as a Xian is "pray privately in the closet" as you are ordered.  But, then, what would 'Jesus' know?

          You people are terminally clueless.  What part of "there's no *reason* to accept what you drool do you *not* understand?

      39. mikelong profile image83
        mikelongposted 6 years ago

        "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

        Hmmm...it seems that either God, or someone who supported the concept of imperialism of the soul makes it a demand to go out and suck up whatever arguments a non-believer or skeptic throws at ya...  That guy who likes to preach down by the Bruin Bear at UCLA can't refuse the questions or challenges of unknowing or unbelieving...

        Those religious zealot kooks who like to stand along the course of the Bay to Breakers Run in San Francisco are obligated by their Lord to use their spiritually enhanced powers to overcome....  If they can...

        My experiences challenging these "theologians" have left me largely unimpressed.....and whatever divine force is supposed to be helping them hasn't arrived to benefit them.....I have instead found fraud and false pride more common....

        I could see then why some may not want to debate challengers.......it sucks when you are exposed for not knowing what you're talking about....

        Cognitive dissonance can be a butt-kicker......

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It is too late to zealous now.

              Do you sense the urgency preach in the New testament. 
          It was VERY important for the disciples to go out into the world and preach the gospel......   cause the end of DAYS for "THAT" Hebrew Nation was drawing near.

            ALL of the OT prophesy was coming to fulfillment right before "THEIR" eyes.   
           

          The Great tribulation as foretold in Matthew 24 was unfolding right before their eyes.   "THEY" were living it.  That is why you can feel the urgency in their message. Their Nation did in fact come to the end of days when every hebrew was deported out of their "Promised Land"  before the year there wasn't a single Hebrew to be found through out israel and Judea.
             Prophesy pulfilled!!!


             Does any one want to debate that Issue?

      40. mikelong profile image83
        mikelongposted 6 years ago

        "Hebrews" had been getting deported from the lands they occupied for half a millenium before the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem....it doesn't take much prophetical skill to discuss something that occurs repeatedly....

        "Tribulation"........the world that my Great Grandfather lived in the closing days of the Ottoman Empire represent the end of a world.....the genocide of native peoples of the Americas were truly horrific beyond words can describe...

        At so many other periods Christians have pointed to for two thousand years to vainly try to make their ideas  relevant.....and each time they have been shown false...

        My own family, Garabed Ouzounian...he's listed online through google, and his son, my grandfather, were Biblical and historical minds who gained the respect of Christian leaders worldwide....and even their pointing to the "relevance"of Christianity in the "end times" disintegrated...

        There is an end time.....and we all will face it in our individual ways.....

        I have seen what the work of "God's messengers abroad" did to the Ottoman Empire...and I see what they have created in the Middle East.....in the Americas, in Asia....and I see nothing to be proud of, or to be inspired by..


        When I mention "Christians" let me also point out that this idea of standardized, unified "Christianity" still does not exist, and therefore any one persons current perceptions and interpretations are inherently incomplete and biased.

        1. Jerami profile image78
          Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I can not argue with anything that you said,

             Bucolically speaking,...  these prophesy that was written in the OT were spoken to and directed to those people that these were written to. Period>

            Now ...  similar things are reported to have been unleashed out side that Hebrew Nation.  The Trumpet judgments were inflicted upon that Roman Empire.

            The vial judgments were inflicted upon the Church states of that time beginning with the bubonic plague

      41. lostgirlscat profile image60
        lostgirlscatposted 6 years ago

        There's an old saying that provides a simple answer to this question.  " Those who are convinced against their will, remain unconvinced still." (Translation: I'll agree to anything you say, if you'll just go away and quit harrassing me!) As in all things in life, your best bet is leading by example, not debate. I also find that many "evangelicals" seem to assume you have never heard the Word of God if you don't belong to their particular church. For example, I live in a small (for this read: Everybody knows, or think they do, everybodies business.)town. Because I am not originally from this town, hereafter referred to as "Deliverance by the Bay" , and my particular religion is not represented by a church in this town, (Roman Catholic, 12 years of being taught in a private school by penguins and priests, and yes, I may have my own issues to deal with) they assume I have never heard of the Bible. I am constantly asked to attend their churches, and if not me,then to at least allow my daughter to be "saved". When they are informed that we are not members of their religion,we are told how "us heathens" (ok, my words, but it's implied)  will still be welcome. After informing them that they are also are welcome to attend Mass at a Catholic Church just outside of town, I am invariably met with blank looks of shock.   The offer is never accepted. Frankly, and in well overdue conclusion, if everyone just followed the one golden rule, treat others as you would care to be treated, all the rest would follow.

        1. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          [if everyone just followed the one golden rule, treat others as you would care to be treated, all the rest would follow.]

          The Golden Rule is flawed.  The Silver Rule is better.

          With the golden rule, if the person is into BDSM then s/he should induct everyone into the same fetish.

      42. Judah's Daughter profile image88
        Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago

        Mark 16:15 states, "And He [Jesus] said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."  He didn't say, "Let the world come to you and when asked, preach the gospel" or "only preach to those will understand or agree".

        Mark 2:17 states, "Jesus said to them, 'It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.'"

        Debate, when engaged in between believers with those who think they are believers and/or those of other 'faiths' (or those without faith) is called seed-planting (the seed is the Word of God - Mark 4:14).  The believer shouldn't feel responsible for the ultimate outcome (convincing someone), for 1 Cor 3:7 states, "So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth."  1 Cor 15:58 promises that our labor is not in vain.  His Word will accomplish what it was sent to do and will not return to Him void (Isaiah 55:11).

        Christians (believers) are called to be laborers in the field of the world (Mat 13:38); the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few (Mat 9:37). Jesus said He sends us out as sheep among wolves (Mat 10:16) and that we will be hated on account of His Name (Mark 13:13) ~ nevertheless, we are commissioned as He said.

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Show me just one instance where discovering Atheism changed someones life drastically, for the better, turning them into a whole different person. And yes, you should debate with non-believers. God Loves a good argument!

          1. Judah's Daughter profile image88
            Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Amen!

          2. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Small 'a' please unless the word atheism is the first word in the sentence.

            I am just one example of the change you ask for-although such is immaterial and irrelevant to the deity question.

            You folks are terminally unequipped to objectively support your superstition.  No one, to date, has addressed the points any non-believer have made.

            Deity, of any sort, is merely something some people believe in.  [shrug]

            1. earnestshub profile image86
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              It becomes more noticeable with time. Not one single response to any questions or queries, just ..... god dunnit! then a pile of "the word"
              Brain dead stuff! lol

              1. 61
                stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                There will never be a response.  They're "brave sir robin" swiftly advancing to the rear shouting; "Tis only a flesh wound {Blk Knight, I know, but I changed it} and Victory is mine!"

                They're mental toddlers ala Santa Claus.

                Those such as SJW are few and far between I'm sorry to say.

                She keeps her religion the precious private matter it should be and internalizes it.  This lack of projection of it to others is why she isn't challenged and why things are being, more or less, explored.

                I find it interesting to see what a person believes and possibly how they reached their present conclusions.

                1. earnestshub profile image86
                  earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I have had a couple of reasonable conversations on the religious hubs, but not with fundies.

      43. Pratonix profile image70
        Pratonixposted 6 years ago

        I asked this question: Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?

        I think it is better to PRAY for them. There seem to be some 'lost souls' who keep frequenting the Christian forums, seeking the solace of salvation that seems to elude them. They have 'Christian names' like Mark and Earnest. But they do not have Christ.

        Rather than debating and discussing, it would be better if some of us Christians prayed for them. God does hear prayer. Psalm 65:2

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes - I agree - if that is what makes you feel superior - you should do so.

          My name means "warrior" or "consecrated in the name of the god of war - Mars" - so - yes - your laughable religion took my name and LOL called it a LOLOL 'Christian name.' lol lol

          Gawd - do you guys read any other book than the Babble? lol

          It is a shame really. sad

          And I do not want Christ thanks - at least not if you are any example to go by. wink Love it that you think praying will get me to stop thinking and become uneducated overnight. You think you can get god to make me forget where your irrational belief system was stolen from? lol

          1. 61
            Anicholposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            In regards to superior attitude i would like to understand your view on where this irrational belief system was stolen from as you obviously have a better understanding of the topic, please share your opinion warrior Mark.

        2. Judah's Daughter profile image88
          Judah's Daughterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          While we are called to witness, there is a boundary that God gives us: Mat 10:14-15 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.  Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city."  Also Mat 5:44 - good Word!

        3. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I already "had christ" Then I grew up and learnt how to reason.

          As not one prayer has been answered in 2,000 years after billions of prayers I would say this myth is busted. smile

          1. JulieBMack profile image59
            JulieBMackposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Wow!  You are aware of all the "unanswered prayers" in 2000 years?  LOL I am honestly interested in your "grown-up reasoning"!!  How do you know this?  What about all the prayers that have been answered?  Besides, God does not just simple say "yes sir" or "yes maam" to every single prayer request - what kind of Father would that be???

            1. earnestshub profile image86
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Despite all the claims by religionists, which would amount to a billion or so prayers per day, I would say as not one has ever been verified that this myth is totally busted.

              Of course the premise that there is an invisible fairy does alert some to learn how to recognise the difference between fact and fantasy. smile

            2. Jerami profile image78
              Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              But ocasionally he does grant that prayer in such a big way that you absolutely KNOW that it was a prayer answered.


                 But when a nonbeliever tells ya that that was just a figmant of your imagionation.....   Ya just gotta laff at him.

            3. Beelzedad profile image60
              Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Could you please tell us what prayers have been answered based on your "grown-up reasoning"?  smile

      44. Beth100 profile image84
        Beth100posted 6 years ago

        Hi Earnest!

        How goes you?

        Bye Earnest!  lol

        Enjoy your day....

        Did you know I feel like we're two ships passing in the night (rather, day/night)?  lol

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hello Beth. Early arvo here, soon time to pick the toddler up from kinder and one from prep school. 2 home sick. I am also sick, but have to keep going with a smile.
          Not so hard to do though! smile
          I hope you have a great evening. smile

      45. Nikki D. Felder profile image79
        Nikki D. Felderposted 6 years ago

        I agree that debating is counterproductive, but I believe we should be able to answer questions and turn to Holy scripture for evidence (proof).  If they oppose, simply pray and go on about your way!

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You would call that proof?
          Self professed truth maybe! lol lol lol
          Proof requires a hell of a lot more than a pile of psychotic garbage that came from the hordes who came before them, then re-written by a bunch of old goat herders and confirmed by no one except themselves. After that it was moulded and remoulded to suit the political agenda of another bunch of old lunatics. smile

          Hardly proof of anything other than modern man's ongoing stupidity.

          1. TimeHealsAll profile image81
            TimeHealsAllposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Prayer does change things, if one believe's. Alot of lives have been changed, you can't discount that. One day you will know the truth and I pray you are ready for it. How great will your laughter be then?

            1. earnestshub profile image86
              earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No, prayer changes nothing! You think the starving children of the world somehow aren't as worthy of food as you are.
              He is too busy finding your car keys to help the sick poor and undernourished?

              You can't have it both ways. If he answers your prayers but ignores the destitute then you must be better than they are eh?

              What sort of an omnipotent entity would think like that?

              Sick, terribly sick!
              As for laughter, you should hear it! lol lol lol
              Your sick sky fairy doesn't fill me with fear as it does some! lol

        2. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That very much sounds like a closed mind. smile

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mega bank vault slamming closed and locking.

            The person 'screams';  "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's already made up."  smile

      46. TimeHealsAll profile image81
        TimeHealsAllposted 6 years ago

        It's good to know you have a heart for the destitute as do I. We all must find our way and we are all worthy of God's love even tho some reject Him. As for me, I serve the Lord. Amen

        1. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You typically did not address the points made though! lol

          1. 61
            stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They can't!  They've nothing to work with.

      47. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago

        It is written in the "good book" that you should cram it down every non believers neck!
        Who are ya gonna save if not the unbelievers! You guys are a riot!!!!
        lol lol lol

      48. TimeHealsAll profile image81
        TimeHealsAllposted 6 years ago

        Laughter hides fear.

        1. Greek One profile image80
          Greek Oneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          hahahhahahahaha.. that was funny!









          wait, i'm scared

        2. earnestshub profile image86
          earnestshubposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not always! Some things are really funny!
          Like christians talking about "wasting time debating with unbelievers," when you are sworn to do so by "the good book" that is the basis of your beliefs for example.
          That was a riot! lol lol lol

          Who else are you gonna "save" .............. the believers? lol lol
          Must be christian logic

      49. lionswhelp profile image81
        lionswhelpposted 6 years ago

        Yes a Christian should witness to other people! This is part of Chtist's Great Commission to go into all the World and preach the Gospel to everyone that you can find whether they will listen or not listen, Matthew 28:19-20. Christians are to be lights to this dark world and not hide the wonderful truths of the Bible, Matthew 5:14-16.

        So what if other "Christians' oppose what you preach? Jesus said to do it anyway, Matthew 24:5-147 Acts 1:6-8 - This  Gospel of the Kingdomis to be preached in all the world and then the end will come.

        Have you never heard of the tremendous witness being given to the Chinese by the Voice of the Martyr's, The Back to Jerusalem Church, and Prayer for the Persecuted Church and many other Christians around the world. There are over 200,000,000 Chinese Christians today in China and still growing. Plus many others in many nations.

        To tell Christians to shut up is not good. A little controversy is good for the soul even among Christians that disagree with each other. It makes us think to look at the scriptures to see  if we are on the right track like the ancienr Bereans did, Acts 17:10-11.

        So what of unbelievers will not listen now?  The time is coming when they will, Revelation 22:10-16 > Jesus has rewards for those that listen now!

        1. Beelzedad profile image60
          Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I can think of better ways to start wars, but not many. smile

        2. 61
          stoneyyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, yeah.  Christians just love making empty and very laughable threats.

          "There really really really *is* an invisible and undetectable monster under the bed."  This book says so!

          Gee, Mr/Mrs/Ms Christian,  three months ago you borrowed 50,000 USD from me and had promised to have the money repaid no later than 26 Aug, 2010.  The funds have not been repaid.  When are you going to repay your debt?

      50. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 6 years ago

        Not going to address the point then? smile
        Not surprised.

        1. Dave Barnett profile image61
          Dave Barnettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Christians would burn me at the stake, back in the good ol' days. "What we have here...is a...failure to ...communicate" This is a forum, is it not? Sometimes resembles the Coliseum w/ all the christians and lions. TEAR 'EM UP!!  I like jumping sides. Both ends against the middle. No gods, just gods everywhere you look:) No need to stab Caesar to death. Probably dying of lead poisoning anyways.

          1. Troy C. profile image60
            Troy C.posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Amen, pratonix, Amen

       
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