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Free Will on Forums?

  1. TruthDebater profile image60
    TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago

    Do the hubpages forums show that you have free will? Or is every answer you are about to write already determined by how you are wired?
    If you wrote what you first thought of writing, then change the comment simply to write something different, is this free will or was it also previously determined?

    1. srwnson profile image62
      srwnsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Depends on who is predetermining the writing.In my opinion, If you ask a question in which there are multiple answers for, it would be hard to say that the answer chosen was predetermined. God would know but it is doubtful would interfere with such. If your computer goes out while you're replying then, perhaps yes.

    2. luvpassion profile image61
      luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      By how you're wired? 

      What the H@#ll does that mean?

      wink

    3. ceciliabeltran profile image84
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      SHEENA IYENGAR

      The art of choosing

      This answers this question:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fejditZY … re=related

  2. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    No matter what you think or write it falls within finite number of thoughts. Think something random which is not at all related with any previous wired memory, if you do that then you'll invent free-will here.

    1. TruthDebater profile image60
      TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks. So this is proof free will does exist when inventing new thoughts?

      1. skyfire profile image71
        skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What are new thoughts ? All your new thoughts are linked to previous one. Give me example of new thoughts and i'll let you know how it's related to previous.

        Show me random, unrelated thought in mind and i'll accept that free-will exist.

        1. luvpassion profile image61
          luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ...-...-...-...-

        2. TruthDebater profile image60
          TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks. I thought you just suggested that free will exists when you wrote, "Think something random which is not at all related with any previous wired memory, if you do that then you'll invent free-will here."

          Wouldn't random thoughts be inventing new thoughts? What do you mean by unrelated thought? Unrelated to memory?

          When new inventions or ideas are made, aren't these new thoughts sometimes unrelated to any previous memories?

  3. luvpassion profile image61
    luvpassionposted 6 years ago

    I think (and skyfire can correct me) that the thoughts you have on subjects such as this are related to the stimulus..ie. question asked or query posed of the paragraph before. wink

    1. TruthDebater profile image60
      TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks. So do you believe there is no free will?

      1. luvpassion profile image61
        luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Heck no, I believe there is freewill... you have the free will to answer to the stimulus...or not!

        (((hugs)))

        smile

        1. skyfire profile image71
          skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If you think there is free-will then whatever choices you made in your life falls within known set of choices which is part of probability that creator is aware of. In that case, how come it's free-will if creator knows about this? That's called cheating of creator not Free-will.  wink

        2. TruthDebater profile image60
          TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks, I needed that. (((hugs)))
          Was me typing (((hugs))) random or predetermined when I have never typed (((hugs))) before? Wasn't it my free will that allowed me choosing to write (((hugs))) rather than being predetermined by your comment? I think I agree with you, but free will is a hard case to make.

          1. luvpassion profile image61
            luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Another example I jumped up and ran through the house with nothing on but my teddie...Wasn't that freewill?

            Maybe God knew it and made sure my housecoat was right there, then I had the choice to put it on or no...Hah!

            wink

            1. skyfire profile image71
              skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              If God is the entity who created free-will then it is already aware of your current/previous/future choices wink

              1. luvpassion profile image61
                luvpassionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I  know that this has been a conundrum down the through the ages. Yet I think there is an answer. 

                Perhaps he is aware of our "choices" yet doesn't interfer allowing the future to unfold in countless ways. Just to see what happens.

                Eternity is not locked to time and God is not limited to time just as God created space and is not limited to it. wink

                Now it is possible that for us human beings, locked in time and yet free to change, that if we were told the future, we would try to alter it.

                So conveying the future to us has interesting ramifications. smile

                1. skyfire profile image71
                  skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Any set of choices made within limit is not at all free-will wink

  4. mega1 profile image78
    mega1posted 6 years ago

    now I have a headache sad

  5. skyfire profile image71
    skyfireposted 6 years ago

    Our mind sometimes generate thoughts based on observation of others, opinion, memory and then interconnects them or cuts them and mix to come up with new thoughts. You call this a random ? It's already a part of your known thought process. Can you write a program for random number generator without algorithm ?


    Unrelated to memory or any thoughts previously stored or generated to and from brain(of any person).


    Example ?

    1. TruthDebater profile image60
      TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks.  If you made a new discovery that was unexplained by any previous observations, would it be free will of how you respond to the discovery, or would it be predetermined by your past observations? Why wouldn't a random discovery create random thoughts?

      1. skyfire profile image71
        skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOL. Give me example of that random discovery or thought lol

        1. TruthDebater profile image60
          TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks. Please define your definition of random.

          1. skyfire profile image71
            skyfireposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Pick any standard dictionary and go ahead with random discovery example.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The inventor of the wheel had nothing to remember or learn from others.  It still hadn't been invented in the New World before the voyage of Columbus.  As far as free will is concerned, I think it was just will, as in "where there's a will......."

          1. TruthDebater profile image60
            TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks. If it is new and willed, undetermined or controlled by previous examples, wouldn't this make it free will?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I would say yes, but then I'm not religious!  If I were a believer I would say no!  Why, because god would have already thought about the wheel beforehand and he would talk into my head like believers think he does!  Doh!

              1. TruthDebater profile image60
                TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                lol Thank You.

          2. Pcunix profile image89
            Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You don't think they learned from watching round things roll?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              But then you are referring to "possible" inspiration, which is not the same thing as the final product of using an axle along with the wheel to actually convey things from one point to another!  Something to think about, anyway!

              1. Jerami profile image77
                Jeramiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The same is true when referring to communication with others

  6. ceciliabeltran profile image84
    ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago

    Ooh...that one did not have the full speech...but maybe this one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-QWwYMsB4

    I have met her personally. She has an interesting perspective.

    1. TruthDebater profile image60
      TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks. I watched the longer video of her. I liked her and the video, but I don't think she answered many questions, I could be wrong. I think she could have argued the computer reading thoughts and choices before you choose or act on them them, along with more mention of determinism, and why there is still free will. I think the scanner/computer reading the brain to predict thoughts and actions is pretty hard to argue, but I don't think it could always be correct. If it's not always correct, I think this gives evidence to free will and randomness, rather than determinism. I don't understand how a computer or scanner could always determine or pick the right choice a person will make when they have power to change mood or thoughts in a moments notice.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM

      Here is the link I am referring to. Too bad the neuroscientist can't understand the meaning of consciousness, subconsciousness, and unconscious. He repeatedly refers to the subconscious workings of the brain to being unconscious.  I would enjoy seeing him try to explain how an unconscious brain learns anything.

      1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
        ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I don't know what you saw, did you see another clip? I heard her speak in person and her stance is you can be manipulated to choice specific things. But she does say that you can choose in a specific way. (though must admit I'm not done with the book)There is also another laboratory experiment of creative people being advised to take a neighborhood walk and then they were asked to do a commercial, and then the scientist revealed the kind of commercial they will most likely make after. So the creative output was planted through "suggestions".

        You can choose the signals you open yourself too. The brain has a do or don't do mechanism. That is how we can exhibit deliberate thought. But other than that, there are signals everywhere that shepherd us towards a destination of thought. This is why somehow, the same technology is invented almost the same times throughout history. It's epigenetics again. Its the environment. We tend to respond to it in predictable ways.

  7. TruthDebater profile image60
    TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago

    Even if choice was an illusion as some believe, would it still be more motivating and empowering to that person to believe the illusion, rather than a belief that they have no choice?

    How do people that believe their future is already determined with no choice empower themselves?

    1. ceciliabeltran profile image84
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      i think there is choice, but that choice can be subject to manipulation. In the grand scheme of things our range of choices sometimes between live or die. And do or do not do. That is still choice.

      1. Bimendra gun profile image65
        Bimendra gunposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        that's the best one

  8. 0
    Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago

    Choice IS the illusion believed. So, of course it empowers and motivates itself. It must, to sustain itself. Even the belief they have no choice is the same as believing they have choices.

    Choice is the needy, bastard child. Free will is the son of purity.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Prove it!

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Precisely, RG, you just proved it for me.
        Necessity: need to prove. Purity: doesn't need.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not even close!  Guess again!

    2. ceciliabeltran profile image84
      ceciliabeltranposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      expound oh cryptic one. smile

      1. 0
        Twenty One Daysposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Many assume Free Will and Choice are interchangeable words. According to the "dictionary" they are. But in reality, they are not identical. One is a product of the other. Free Will would be the semantic womb, where all things exist perfectly, without necessity. Choice is the embryo within IF the child indulges itself to survive, to exist, to will itself and to do. Choice is ever-constant necessity. Like a hunger that can never be satisfied. Show me one thought or decision humans make at the moment that is not based on need. And although humans attribute this as a good thing, why they are here and use it as a foundation of purpose, the need notion is a product of choice within choice, creating further mutations within itself. Oddly, the only reason they are able to do so is because of the Free Will connection. Think of it like radioactive lifespans, always depreciating, but never ending. Again, no matter how they see it, a tiny bit of Free Will always exists in them, for as long as they live.

        Look at it this way, in the womb, the child has all needs provided, knows everything it needs to, thus, lacking no thing. Upon exit from the womb, to indulge itself, becomes Choice. If it does not indulge itself, remains a son of purity, a manifestation of Free Will. A carbon copy. If it does indulge itself, although connected still to Free Will, Choice is becomes the bastard child. An offspring nonetheless, but not a pure one. Call it a mutation. It now must continuously indulge itself to survive, so it believes, until the energy connection between it and the source [Free Will], gives out. The human being is the offspring of Creator. There are two kinds of people. Those who live in the status of Free Will as a perfect offspring or a bastardized child who lives by its own choice.

        Why did choice occur? Good question. The mutation occurred at the moment when necessity is accepted --even considered, really.

        Notice within the mutant, Free Will is still available, as an option or choice, but in order to reverse the mutation --so to speak-- Choice must give itself completely to Free Will again, fulfilling the void or lacking gene and be restored to its rightful place as a son of purity. Else it dies and the entire choice continuum of that entity dies and the speck of Free Will returned to the Source.

        Look at light. There are two kinds: pure and artificial. Humans were once pure light reflections. Indulging choice forces them to become artificial light forms.

        As said many times, Choice is limited to only the human consciousness, the mind. The mind is supposed to be a tool, not the master. Humans believe they are ruled by their thoughts and their bodies slaves to them. Ironically they are correct. Why? Because they indulge the mind, the tool, the consciousness and allow it to rule over the body and heart...

        Cecilia, this is actually a collective excerpt from Quantus Philo. ~James.

  9. TruthDebater profile image60
    TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago

    Thanks Twenty, I thought free will and choice are the same. Needed bastard child and son of purity? How did you come to these conclusions that they are different and descriptive as you have explained? If choice is only illusion, why isn't free will?

    1. Dave Barnett profile image61
      Dave Barnettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I believe that all earthlings are on the same team, don't like it anymore than the rest of you, but in team play, you must set aside free will. The will of the team is determined by someone other than you, sometimes. Sometimes you have to pass, when you'd rather play. Are we really any different than ants? 6 billion drivers, and none obeying the signs? Each one of us marching to the beat of our own drummer? Sounds more like a nut house. Free will must succumb to reality. Unless we surrender our will, then we will never get anywhere. And I was a writer first.

      1. TruthDebater profile image60
        TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks. You think we are accountable to a god, but that we are no different from ants?
        True that free will is under the force of nature, so absolute free will is limited. But if a person surrenders what little free will they have, then they will not get anywhere. When a person surrenders all free will, they also surrender choice and actions, meaning no criminal is a criminal because they had no power to choose between right and wrong. Are you sure about this?

  10. 69
    logic,commonsenseposted 6 years ago

    didn't know will was incarcerated! smile

  11. SilentReed profile image90
    SilentReedposted 6 years ago

    When someone throws a brick at your face, you're gonna think of a choice or duck ?

    1. TruthDebater profile image60
      TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks. It depends on the velocity and angle of the brick, so you would still have to think whether subconsciously or consciously by instinct of which direction to move. If someone threw the brick from above and your only instincts were to duck, this would likely do you no good. You would have to think and choose to move sideways/forward/backwards rather than ducking.

  12. SilentReed profile image90
    SilentReedposted 6 years ago

    So the choice of reaction is based on a predetermined set of subconcious patterns? Then there is no free will. Everythiing is based on conditional response like Pavlov's dogs.

    1. TruthDebater profile image60
      TruthDebaterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks. I agree to an extent that reaction is based on subconscious or instinct, but for there to be no free will, I think the reactions would have to be fixed. I think the changing of patterns or reprogramming of subconscious shows that reaction has free will and flexibility to some extent.

 
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