Nothing like making a completely foolish statement if I've ever heard one. My post was a joke, like this thread is actually.
I can prove I exist. Just become I am aware of my own life and your argument about a god being existence is a joke.
Just because people claim to believe in a god existence and others say that it doesn't exist, doesn't negate the conscious life effort required to post in this forum and your disrespectful nature, for which, caused you to post this pathetic thread deserves to be laughed at.
I have to admit I'm indeed new to this and I'm finding this quite fasinating. The fact that someone posted to ask to prove if one exsit and then in turn is wanting or is expecting a answer is quite intriguing!
How can I prove anything to you when proof and truth are nothing but the latest winners of a television phone-in-and-vote-for-the-winner show?
Existence must be defined. Without definition it is meaningless. To have a consistent and unambiguous definition, physics defines exist as that which has shape (an object) plus a location.
My body has a shape and a location, so I can rationally explain that my body exists, but I can never prove I exist unless you are willing to believe by faith that it is so - or if you call in and vote yes for me.
Suppose your body is 6' feet tall; so you claim to exist as you have a shape and a location. It does not prove that you exist in all of your body wherever it is located. Beacause; one may lose say his right leg; will that person become incomplete man? So your right leg is superficial; even if you lose it you will still claim that you exist; you don't exist there.
Please therefore find out in which part of your body you really exist; where does your "you" reside, please?
i want to add paarsurrey,YOU don't exist. YOU live. you are made of matter, that exist will continue to exist. the perception of you is because of brain that perceives, which again is made of matter and the moment it stop functioning you DIE or your "I" stops, but still the matter continues.....
i have to say that this seriously takes the cake. Your comment about a man losing his leg, and being incomplete, well yea, he would be incomplete in comparrison to the majority of the population.
The thing is, he would exist, but his leg would also exist, until every part of it were to dissapear.
Do you mean exist as in be alive? Because they are two totally different questions. As long as something has matter, and can take up space, like AKA says, it exists. Just because your leg is gone, or even half of your body, does not mean that you yourself cease to take up space. Even if you were choped up into 1 inch cubes, the cubes would still exist...until they didnt. I get your thinking on this question, but at the same time, its not a very well thought out well presented question.
I was going to reply but I ceased existing because you didn't send the dollars. So....you are not actually reading this post. Everybody else can see it but you can't because you unexisted me by not sending me dollars to vacation in the Bahamas. Now...you have to prove I existed and became "unexisted"...which as a word does not exist.
No no, you can't fool him into sending the dollars that way! I also need $10,000 to prove I exist! Unlike you, who doesn't exist, I still exist and therefore am a worthier cause for dollars!
On the other hand, do you need to see the sun now to be pretty certain that it'll be there tomorrow morning? inductive reasoning is a wonderful thing. paarsurrey how does failure to provide proof of something in existence now make it suddenly unexist?
thats a nice question! There are lots of theories in sprituality about GOD created humans to entertain him, some says we are in a jail where we(sprits) have to go through different form of births and the only way out is from spritual gurus.
What i believes is " yes we exist". Its a very big topic, you can say when u r in a dream then you also exist. So its just the mind thing but for sure we exists.
Scientifically, we exists because we have a mass and volume. Spritually, we exists because we all knows there is a soul among us which we can feel when we got stuck in mind and soul fight. Like we saw a person in bad condition, mind: stay away frm him soul: should definately help him.
The thing that we can think proves our existance because we are emmiting the thoughts which have some frequency and energy. Mind is nothing but source of thoughts. It is believed god created this universe by a thought.
We have a brain and a heart; where does the mind reside in our body? Where does our ego "I, we" reside?
Science itself has no volume or mass; it consist of priciples that man has derived from our senses. We rely for our existence on a thing which itself has no mass or volume or spirit which we ourselves has produced over the period; does it not make a circular argument?
mind is our conscious state which we build from the teachings we got through out our life from birth. When a child born, he don't knows how to eat but after practicing again n again he is able to eat properly, so basically the procedure of eating has settled into his subconscious mind. Similar is story with speaking or learning language. Conscious mind just works from the teachings settled in our subconscious mind. So, how you mould a child from birth will decide what he is going to do in future. Soul is different entity and indeed we lives because of soul. Soul contains the GOD material which exists but not in physical form. Thats why you need to meditate with help of a guru to see the GOD( again one of spritual theories)
I, we are thoughts of our mind. The word 'I' is very strong and takes a lot of life force out of you when you speaks it. It a different topic altogether.
Man is derived from the intelligence which is GOD. The same intelligence is in every living thing called soul. The intelligence is present in Zygote cell and has a full image of our full grown body or infant body. Similar is case with us, the image we sets in our mind, we transform it into physical form, again because of this god material.
From the scriptures the true God existed way before humans were his created Idea , no he does not need humans , example you create a doll today, yesturday you existed without the doll The doll has no controll over you , you control actions with it. So he does not need anything from us we need everthing from him. Example if he stopped the rain. If he shut down the sun light, if he moved th. Moon and stars. If he stopped the oxygen to flow. Could we continue to thrive on planet earth? No things are organized just as a functioning house would need simlar tthings to function. There are to many things sitting in the right position that benifit us. And amazing all these things never fail us when humans fail many times in many things
I dont think God need humans , because he created other things before humans , the Angels , Animals , man arrived later but the Heavenly Father did not need them , it is a wonder gift as humans to exist , and remember if that was the case why would he clean the earth of humans from a flood and soon again . He has the power to create and he has the power to many things we could never imagin. The treasure of it all is the life he grants each human to live and see him in action as the many Angels appluad his magnificence in his work. What a great honor we will have to see him at work creating new things.
I think, therefore, I am. Not too sure about the rest of you. Not a matter of me proving me to me, or of you proving you to me. Science tells us that to obersve you gives you reality, at least to me, but I have seen things which, physically, were not there, then I have also seen things that were, but no one would ever believe it. I think that I am sitting somewhere in a padded cell, in a catatonic state, and that you are all an illusion caged inside my sick mind.
I understand there are a number of Hubbers who don't really exist, but I suppose there is a person who really does exist behind them, otherwise they couldn't exist, could they? So, I think we all exist in one way or another.
Normally the Atheist's stance is that those who believe in God; they should prove God's existence. If that is the correct apporach; then a person who says that he exists; he should come forward to prove his existence; for comparison and argument.
Well, yes, they do. The only gods that have any traction these days are gods that did in fact come down and speak to someone in some form or another. Then that dude wrote it down and the whole thing spread like a bad rash.
Well, I am arguing that I don't exist and neither do you. And I am arguing only for it's own sake. There was a principal at one school I attended that I kind of wish didn't exist. I suspect he was doing un-nice things. He was probably an unprincipled principal.
You actually have a good point. How do I know for sure that I am nothing but the product of your imagination.
I know that I am at the very least a product of my own. No one could possibly be as good looking, and as intelligent, understand AND Modest Yes modest; all of this at the same time!!! Lets face it!! That has to be the product of someones imagination.
Of course. Because non existing entities are regretless. No subject. But object might exist to be regretd or not. If I dont'exist, nothing exists ? Or can it be something existing, regardless of my existing status ? he ?
establishment : Of course you are my bright little star, I've miles And miles Of files Pretty files of your forefather's fruit and now to suit our great computer, You're magnetic ink. First man : I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
Inner Man: There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles And piles Of trials With smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave And keep on thinking free.
THat's Moody Blues for you. On The Threshold Of A Dream.
On a second thought, it's dangerous to admit that we exist, because then our existence is limited both in time and space (meaning we cannot be everywhere and in every time at the same time) and therefore it is not intrinsic to us (meaning we do not have to be and by ourselves we cannot be). Yet we exist, therefore we have to say there is someone who imposes our existence upon us at all times. Who might that be...?
why do hubbers still respond to paarsurreys obviously demented questions and comments? Nuthin' else to do? Boredom?, confusion? ignorance? a primitive "primate" propensity/.....hmmmm? I am truly amazed at some of the responses which actually seem to be serious...lotflmsaoff. No offense Paar. Just wondering in print....:-)
Have you seen your mind; where it does exist? Do you recognize it? Has it a definite shape and location as one of our friends suggest with reference to Physics. If you have not seen your mind; why do you believe that you exist in it?
if there is a god. it surly needn't us . only humans pray. think about that statement. only we pester god. only we ask of it, blame it, beg for its attention. only we misrepresent it. bees don't bother god . and im almost sure it likes it that way. and as for proof of my existence . ask my creditors they know me. they will send you the bill.
I don't think this is outstanding at all. It seems to me something my 2 year old grandson might come up with while contemplating his navel and having nothing more stimulating to do.
Do we exist? What do you think? If we don't exist, who are you having all these conversations with? If we do exist, who are you that we would have to prove it to you? I don't have to prove anything to anyone, least of all my existence.
You prove we exist by responding to us... but maybe if we don't exist, neither do you and we are all just participating in some creepy Twilight Zone episode.
I'm pretty sure Australia doesn't exist, either. However since two negatives make a positive, and both you don't exist and Australia doesn't exist then you and Australia both exist, but if you leave Australia you disappear and so does Australia.
However, since I don't exist ... I'm not sure if I can prove it.
Every time this "do-we-exist/prove-it" question shows up on the Internet somewhere (and it shows up over and over and over again), my response is always to bring up the row-of-the-saltines point:
If I take out a brand new row of saltine crackers, open the wrapper, and proceed to eat the whole thing (which I don't really do, by the way - only half the row! ); a couple of hours later there will be the torn open wrapper, and no crackers left. That, to me, pretty much lets someone know I'm not a figment of anyone else's imagination.
I suppose if someone were to get into forensics, there would be traces of saltines somewhere that connected me to the saltines.
If someone tries to take away my saltines, and I punch him in the nose, give him a nose-bleed, and leave the imprint of my ring and fingernails on his face, I'd say that pretty much proves I exist too.
Except for those people that get into the whole, "How do we know what's real is actually reality" thing, nobody asks me to prove I exist (although a lot of people act as if I don't, sometimes ). Still, I'm here, potentially punching noses if I have reason to - so if anyone asked me to prove I exist I wouldn't find it difficult.
I am able to offer data which allows you to objectively determine (tentatively) whether the hypothesis "my body exists" is true.
I am unable to offer data that allows you to objectively determine whether the hypothesis "my mind exists" is true. The data which allows me to conclude this is entirely subjective and consists of my own mental states. Moreover, if you were able to somehow observe my mental states, you would not be able to experience those mental states as my mental states, because you can only experience something through your own mental states, including other mental states.
However, you are able to infer that I have a mind on the grounds that this is the best explanation of my behaviour. That inference is not necessarily correct, and the logical possibility remains that no one other than yourself has a mind.
This is a well known philosophical problem called "the problem of other minds".
I think, therefore, I am. The question is: Do the rest of you exist, or am I catatonic in a mental ward somewhere? Is this God's dream?(Hope he took some pills, or he might wake up....DREAM OVER!) Maybe I ACCIDENTLY ate acid in the sixties and never came down! Or maybe we're all dead and this is 1)Hell 2) Purgatory 3) Heaven or all three.
Existence can be proven by visual proof such as a photograph - which you see mine by my name and can thus show it to others to prove you have seen me...
It can be proven by hearing - if we were on the phone you would hear my voice and could thus record it and prove to others that you had heard me...
It can be proven by touch - if I would let you near me and allow your hand to touch mine, you would be certain without question that you had touched living flesh, though proving that to others would have to be by faith.
It can be proven by smell - though I hope for the sake of all that nobody here smells bad.
It can be proven by taste, but once again, we're not going there.
You ask me to prove my existence - by all the ways listed I can prove my existence but you cannot prove your God by any of those or by any other means other than offering faith. I am not trying to be rude, simply bluntly honest in answering your question paarsurrey.
True, impairment of those senses can cause issues with recording fact in some instances. Are all people impaired? No. Out of 1000 people, you may have 100 that are impaired and the other 900 may be perfectly fine. That particular argument can be used on both sides, and even though it may explain the opinions of a few people, it still doesn't explain everything.
You can prove your physical existence to me, and vice-versa. The biggest contention I have is in proving how the life-force that exists in every living creature and organism can be defined as being that is all knowing and is human in its actions and reactions - how it can be personified as though mere humans know all about it. That combined with the contradictions in the Bible, Torah, Quran and all other books is what leaves me questioning. If the book contradicts itself, who is to say that the belief written therein about the life-force being God, and God being omnipotent and humanistic, yet perfect - how can I believe that is true? I used to have blind faith in it - I cannot ignore the contradictions. This is the biggest issue that exists with it, in my opinion. By the very definition of being human, one is imperfect. How can any human, then, claim to know all about an unknowable, unseen entity and claim it to be so? Visions do not prove anything other than that the brain entered a vivid dreaming state. The mind is capable of MANY things, one of which is vivid dreaming, and another is the ability to prove and disprove theory. I am not attempting to be rude or disrespectful - just to obtain more information. Take care.
In other words, since those things are out of reach of all of our senses, we still know they are there, and even if we have no way of sensing their presence, we somehow formulate the knowledge in our minds that they are indeed there.
Truly speaking, I have found no real contradiction in Quran; it even explains the causes of conradiction in other revealed books and tells the origianl truth which was later lost by the followers of that book.
Quran explains its true meaning of a verse in its context of some preceding and som following verses. It also explains the truthful meaning elsewhere in the book. One could check and clear the meaning from the first chapter of the Quran which is a summary of the Quran.
Just mention one contradiction which you yourself have found in Quran while studying Quran; and try the above method; I am not a scholar, just an ordinary person; this method works amazingly.
""The orthodox Muslim conception of God may be summed up as follows: God is one; He has no partners; Singular, without any like Him; Uniform, having no contrary; Separate, having no equal; Ancient, having no first.""
"Of the ninety-nine names given to Allah in the Qur'an
He is called, bullet The Mighty (Al Aziz) bullet The Subduer (Al Quhhar) bullet The Great One (Al Azim) bullet The Most Great (Al Kabir) bullet The Most Strong (Al Qawi) bullet The Powerful (Al Muqtadir)"
There is no absolute proof that anything exists. I believe I am. I cannot prove it. I can't state exactly what 'I' is. I can't state exactly what 'believing' is. I can state that 'I' 'believe' 'I' 'am'. The interpretation is your own perception. Whatever I 'choose' to 'believe' I am determines how the world reacts to my 'existence'.
I am a tree falling in the forest - does anybody hear me? I am the sound of one paw, clapping. I am an article, spun by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing - though I "perceive" myself to be typing, I "believe" I am just a figment of my imagination.
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